Botan's tone while talking formally sounds like she's almost playfully sarcastic. Kinda like mocking (in a good playful way) rather than being very polite. That's probably why Korone is fine with Botan using polite and formal language.
on a certain Botan stream (forget which one) she said that using keigo (polite speech), and then suddenly turn to casual when her collab partners make a funny/troll-ish moment, will add comedy spice for content. (sorry can't explain it properly, still learning English, bear with me 😋)
@@K..C It also makes sense that she uses polite speech, since I would imagine that army commands and callouts would probably be on the formal end of the spectrum. (Although I personally tend to curse up a storm when playing FPS games so idk)
Even when Botan talks politely it still sounds relaxed and comfortable to listen to. It also helps that Botan never seems to be dishonest, which you sometimes get when people start talking politely in Japan. Like a junior to a senior where the junior is almost sweet talking the senior. Or the many apologies you hear there which aren't said because someone wants to apologise but because it's seen as proper, polite, and mandatory, making the apologies often come across as dishonest.
Normally formality is more than just the words you say. It's also the words you don't. But Botan is used to saying absolutely everything pertinent to her intended message, so there's little difference.
So in other words, unless you're the Lion, talking politely to Korone will get you "orayo'd" in the face. Seems a bit backwards, but hey, I think it's really sweet that she wants to be seen as approachable! Korone's like that one rare cool teacher lol Also, that remix of Wily's Castle is killer.
imo, it's all in the attitude. Botan may speak formally to _technically_ lower herself as per social rules, but it doesn't limit her genuine playful attitude when she's with senpais she wanna be mischievous with, which effectively modifies her _technically_ formal speech into just formal-sounding casual speech. In other words, her language says 🙂 but her actions says 🥸. That's why her formality isn't a problem, since it's actually a part of her shtick - in fact I think it _adds_ to her personal brand of humor.
For people who doesn't know, using Keigo or not plays an important part of Japanese daily speech. It is very odd, and even rude for not using Keigo with strangers. Conversely, it will be super odd if you are using Keigo with someone who is close to you. Example: a lot of kaigai niki will say "arigato" to the shopkeepers or waiter/waitress when they are being served. This is actually quite awkward for the shopkeepers/waiter/waitress as there's no Keigo used. The proper way is to say "arigato gozaimasu". You will only say "arigato" (without the gozaimasu) with close friends. But I guess this is still acceptable as those kaigai niki are not Japanese and the shopkeepers understand that.
I think most Japanese people would already be used to assuming people who use no keigo in such a context(forgetting gozaimasu) to be just Japanese beginners. I think I catch myself forgetting my keigo when speaking to my language exchange partner(12 years older and we didn't meet that long ago) sometimes but he doesn't mind. I do want to learn 尊敬語 though, but it's tricky.
For some people, it's hard to go casual at the beginning, it takes time and trust to build a balance between not being cold but not overfamiliar. Some girls would feel shy or unconfortable I imagine. I know how Korone is, she is very caring and really gets along easily with anyone, and so does Botan, so their relationship is unique and wholesome because they respect each other, even if Korone feels like beating her because polite language.
I actually jealous for those kind of people. They can know their place and be humble at stranger. Me, i usually just talk like uneducated moron and self destruct with people i first met
@@yezki8 you're gonna be so damn annoy when you know how to read between the line too much and tons of people start liking you. If they're compatible it's fine but if not and you still stuck with that then 50/50 you're gonna feel more than just uncomfortable.
I can relate to this for e.g when I'm talking to my senior officers I can't help but speak formally/politely even though they asked me to just speak casually.
As I understand it, Korone is okay with Botan using keigo because it sounds sincere instead of forced. You get me? The difference is like you saying "yes sir" and meaning it instead of "yes sir" and mentally or physically roll your eyes. Or, saying something formally specifically to build some distance between your self and the person you're talking to.
I experienced somewhat similar things with a couple of my friends in high school. Both of them were decently smart and one of them would talk in a way that made it obvious he knew he was smart, the other one spoke in a way that made you know he was smart. Slight distinction, but still very noticeable. Which is kind of the case here, with some people when they're being formal, you can just tell it's being forced, but with others, it feels very honest. I would give a similar impression to people when it came to sounding smart, since it wasn't uncommon for somebody to ask if I was smart and I would simply reply with something along the lines of "I like to think so" or "depends on what you mean".
Somehow, I feel like this is related to age. The older you get, the more people will talk to you in a "politely" manner. This means, the younger ones talks casually. The older ones who interact casually to younger ones are like "cool" or there is some kind of "young-at -heart" feeling. IDK what term it is, but I think you get what I'm trying to say.
3 stages of being a asian: 1. Using keigo because the society forced you to 2. Not using keigo because tired of being forced 3. Using keigo again and willingly because you start to respect the other from the bottom of your heart. Botan is in the 3rd stage
She must have either been a prodigy in training as a child, and had to talk in Super polite Japanese to everyone, which would explain why she wants to see everyone as an equal now, because she doesn't want anyone to feel like she did... deep
Well I do get what Korone’s saying because even if Botan does use keigo (which I learned in Japanese class recently) she does it in a casual manner, but still using this polite expression. Regardless I think we just let the Pro gamer, smug, and extremely powerful lion do whatever she wants regardless of speech expression…
The best way to compare it is when an employee is on very good terms with their boss to a point where the honoric almost feels like nickname. You know like been given a task and replying with "You got it, sir!" or "Sure thing, boss!"
The whole "formal vs informal speaking" thing is fascinating to me. Like yeah you can be polite in English but it feels like it would be more like using Olde English in formal situations. Anyway I always love hearing about this stuff.
I'm thinking that Korone wants people to talk to her as 'naturally' as possible. When most people use polite speech (keigo), I think it sounds forced/unnatural. Whereas with Botan, she might be using polite speech mixed in her everyday life so it sounds more natural. It's just a guess, I have no idea if this is entirely true.
In Germany during what you would call elementary and middle school we are spoken to casually by the teachers. We don't only have "you" we have "du" (casual) and "sie" (formal [our second plural pronoun, not the pronoun for female people and things #germanisweird ] ) as pronouns. And in high-school the teachers will speak formally like to an adult to you. And it was hard to get used to it. And some teachers didn't do it some did. Well you feel old when you are spoken to like that.
Korone: Don't be stiff, just be casual with me Botan: Okay SENPAI Korone: I said be casual with me ! Botan: It's exactly because I being casual with you that I have no obligation to obey you to not call you senpai, right ? Korone: . . . what the f-
Everyone: No, no no you can not Just say " Osu " insted of " Ohayo Gozaimasu " all Japanese people speak polite everytime Japanese Evil dog god: I don't like keigo Obs: I know is not cool speaking with slangs to strangers ( in Japan maybe )
... Wait, for real? How old is Korone??? She sounds and acts rather young, so I pegged her as around or just a little older than Fubuki (who turned 19 quite recently)!
I kinda get it, in German you 2 different personal pronouns you can use. 'du' and 'Sie', the former is casual the latter is formal (English to have it too 'thou' for casual and 'you' for formal). However basically everyone who is a millennial or younger doesn't use the formal pronoun with someone who's around their age. They only use it when the age gap is quite significant.
Counterpoint: Botan is the only one who doesn't make Korone feel old, as she's the only one older than Korone. I can say as a 40 year old, I'd much rather be called "sir" by a 50 year old than by a 28 year old. And I'm a he/him.
Not to give too much away, but I think this is actually because Botan is much older than all of the other Holomem. She's like in her 40s or 50s, so there's a certain aspect of "expected seniority" where the other Holomems respect everything she does/says. I'm sure it's not JUST because of her seniority, but I think that definitely plays a part.
@@DoozyyTV love how you are stating it as a fact when you know nothing botan was a pro Esports player called ereco her yt channel is still up so you can go and check it yourself she is 45 now and korone is 37 being the 2nd oldest hololive member so botan is the only person in hololive older than her
Botan is old but nowhere near 50 lmao, in any case she's closer to 40s, it's not like Mio or Korone are that younger either (or Watame and Fbk for the matter) why do you think they're playfully called "Holohags" in the community, in any case we can't be 100% sure as not even Botan or her roommate had state an specific age, not even in her older tweets.
![Multiple Managers Contacted Korone During Her Endurance Stream [Eng Sub/Hololive]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/47TutY9EgKc/mqdefault.jpg)
![Multiple Managers Contacted Korone During Her Endurance Stream [Eng Sub/Hololive]](/img/tr.png)
![Botan Cancels Her Stream to Hang Out With Korone, But They Keep Forgetting About Towa [Hololive]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/a5ImnwOwU_8/mqdefault.jpg)
Korone: "I specifically said NO KEIGO-"
**is shown a picture of Botan**
"Ok I will make an exception because she looks very polite."
Now that's character develop
-ment
Botan's tone while talking formally sounds like she's almost playfully sarcastic. Kinda like mocking (in a good playful way) rather than being very polite. That's probably why Korone is fine with Botan using polite and formal language.
hmm... it feels sort of teasing, no?
on a certain Botan stream (forget which one) she said that using keigo (polite speech), and then suddenly turn to casual when her collab partners make a funny/troll-ish moment, will add comedy spice for content.
(sorry can't explain it properly, still learning English, bear with me 😋)
@@dndxprm9286 which stream is it? don't worries, at least i understand your message.
@@roberthandle that's the problem, I can't remember.
@@dndxprm9286 I remember her mentioning that, I think it was in a collab with Subaru and others.
This dog really has a thing for cats.
Korone has a special place for all cat-kind
Botan has a pretty blunt way of speaking tbh, maybe that's why she doesn't mind much
Botan says in other clips that she speaks super bluntly because she’s used to giving quick comms in FPS games
@@alexduh537 A true gamer
@@K..C It also makes sense that she uses polite speech, since I would imagine that army commands and callouts would probably be on the formal end of the spectrum.
(Although I personally tend to curse up a storm when playing FPS games so idk)
Even when Botan talks politely it still sounds relaxed and comfortable to listen to. It also helps that Botan never seems to be dishonest, which you sometimes get when people start talking politely in Japan. Like a junior to a senior where the junior is almost sweet talking the senior. Or the many apologies you hear there which aren't said because someone wants to apologise but because it's seen as proper, polite, and mandatory, making the apologies often come across as dishonest.
Man I miss Korone so much. I hope she's doing better and come back when she is ready
She seems to be fine according to Botan, they had dinner together recently with Towa-sama. Botan even cancelled a stream to make time for Korone.
had too re-watch, was very distracted by the credits bgm.
couldn't help going OKKUSENMAN and ULTRAMAN SEVEN in my head.
Normally formality is more than just the words you say. It's also the words you don't. But Botan is used to saying absolutely everything pertinent to her intended message, so there's little difference.
So in other words, unless you're the Lion, talking politely to Korone will get you "orayo'd" in the face. Seems a bit backwards, but hey, I think it's really sweet that she wants to be seen as approachable! Korone's like that one rare cool teacher lol
Also, that remix of Wily's Castle is killer.
What if we're SSRB who had been training ourselves to emulate Botan's way of making _keigo_ sound casual?
A lion is still a queen and a queen must always be dignified, in every possible way..
I mean even though Botan speaks politely but her laughs can definitely break that awkward wall
the megaman song was too epic i couldnt pay attention and started jamming with it.
It's the difference between being genuinely polite and trying to be polite.
imo, it's all in the attitude. Botan may speak formally to _technically_ lower herself as per social rules, but it doesn't limit her genuine playful attitude when she's with senpais she wanna be mischievous with, which effectively modifies her _technically_ formal speech into just formal-sounding casual speech.
In other words, her language says 🙂 but her actions says 🥸.
That's why her formality isn't a problem, since it's actually a part of her shtick - in fact I think it _adds_ to her personal brand of humor.
Korone: gets senpai treatment even though she doesn't want it
Towa: fights for senpai treatment and never gets it (from Gen 5)
Thought there was a clip where Shuba addressed Korone as Koro-chan and our duck almost got murdered. Could have been Korone just being playful tho.
Botan likes to play people for her own amusement, she's probably using keigo to push Korone's buttons XD
Because Botan is flawless and perfect in every way.
That lion can speak to me any way she wants and I will still bark for her
For people who doesn't know, using Keigo or not plays an important part of Japanese daily speech.
It is very odd, and even rude for not using Keigo with strangers.
Conversely, it will be super odd if you are using Keigo with someone who is close to you.
Example: a lot of kaigai niki will say "arigato" to the shopkeepers or waiter/waitress when they are being served.
This is actually quite awkward for the shopkeepers/waiter/waitress as there's no Keigo used. The proper way is to say "arigato gozaimasu". You will only say "arigato" (without the gozaimasu) with close friends. But I guess this is still acceptable as those kaigai niki are not Japanese and the shopkeepers understand that.
Thank you for a detailed explanation.
I think most Japanese people would already be used to assuming people who use no keigo in such a context(forgetting gozaimasu) to be just Japanese beginners. I think I catch myself forgetting my keigo when speaking to my language exchange partner(12 years older and we didn't meet that long ago) sometimes but he doesn't mind.
I do want to learn 尊敬語 though, but it's tricky.
For some people, it's hard to go casual at the beginning, it takes time and trust to build a balance between not being cold but not overfamiliar. Some girls would feel shy or unconfortable I imagine. I know how Korone is, she is very caring and really gets along easily with anyone, and so does Botan, so their relationship is unique and wholesome because they respect each other, even if Korone feels like beating her because polite language.
I actually jealous for those kind of people. They can know their place and be humble at stranger.
Me, i usually just talk like uneducated moron and self destruct with people i first met
Korone and Botan just have really good chemistry. They hit it off immediately when they first interacted with each other last year
@Gladius yes, but well shit because of that no girl want to be near me even before covid
@@yezki8 you're gonna be so damn annoy when you know how to read between the line too much and tons of people start liking you. If they're compatible it's fine but if not and you still stuck with that then 50/50 you're gonna feel more than just uncomfortable.
@@Erynji then i guess everything has it's own merit and downside
Character development is op
I can relate to this for e.g when I'm talking to my senior officers I can't help but speak formally/politely even though they asked me to just speak casually.
i mean i think botan is really the type of person you could be comfortable with
for a dog, korone likes cats a lot.
As I understand it, Korone is okay with Botan using keigo because it sounds sincere instead of forced. You get me? The difference is like you saying "yes sir" and meaning it instead of "yes sir" and mentally or physically roll your eyes. Or, saying something formally specifically to build some distance between your self and the person you're talking to.
Botan's keigo feels warm, but regular keigo tends to feel cold. At least that's how I'd put it. She is always laughing too which probably helps.
@@DestroyedArkana Yeah, that's what I was going for. Well put.
Dr. Willy's Theme will never stop being a ultimate kicker!
to be respectful in casual tone. botan too OP
I experienced somewhat similar things with a couple of my friends in high school. Both of them were decently smart and one of them would talk in a way that made it obvious he knew he was smart, the other one spoke in a way that made you know he was smart. Slight distinction, but still very noticeable. Which is kind of the case here, with some people when they're being formal, you can just tell it's being forced, but with others, it feels very honest. I would give a similar impression to people when it came to sounding smart, since it wasn't uncommon for somebody to ask if I was smart and I would simply reply with something along the lines of "I like to think so" or "depends on what you mean".
Dog God: _"Be not be afraid mortal! Just talk casually to me."_
also Dog God: _"I REQUIRE BLOOD SACRIFICE OF LIMB! YUBI YUBI!"_
Anyone: Thank you so much, I'm very glad for your assistance, Ms. Inugami.
Korone: u wot m8, come at me bruv
Somehow, I feel like this is related to age. The older you get, the more people will talk to you in a "politely" manner. This means, the younger ones talks casually. The older ones who interact casually to younger ones are like "cool" or there is some kind of "young-at
-heart" feeling. IDK what term it is, but I think you get what I'm trying to say.
Banger bgm tho
Ah yes, speaking unformally formal.
3 stages of being a asian:
1. Using keigo because the society forced you to
2. Not using keigo because tired of being forced
3. Using keigo again and willingly because you start to respect the other from the bottom of your heart.
Botan is in the 3rd stage
Diplomatic lion strikes again, not even the yubi collector can say no to her
Because Botan's politeness is a threat.
It could also be how it can make people feel old like why a lot of people don't like being called sir or ma'am
All I hear is she has a thing for cats.
She really has a liking to cats huh. All except Okayus cat
I'm sure it's because they're fellow canines XD
She must have either been a prodigy in training as a child, and had to talk in Super polite Japanese to everyone, which would explain why she wants to see everyone as an equal now, because she doesn't want anyone to feel like she did...
deep
Well I do get what Korone’s saying because even if Botan does use keigo (which I learned in Japanese class recently) she does it in a casual manner, but still using this polite expression.
Regardless I think we just let the Pro gamer, smug, and extremely powerful lion do whatever she wants regardless of speech expression…
its because they're both "canines", right Korone?
Basically:
Korone: "HEY! Don't be polite to me! Be yourself!"
Botan: "But... what if myself is polite?"
Korone: *Talking about Botan and polite dialogue*
Me: *Rocking out to Wily's Castle 1 from MMII*
The best way to compare it is when an employee is on very good terms with their boss to a point where the honoric almost feels like nickname. You know like been given a task and replying with "You got it, sir!" or "Sure thing, boss!"
Towa sighing from distance
The whole "formal vs informal speaking" thing is fascinating to me. Like yeah you can be polite in English but it feels like it would be more like using Olde English in formal situations. Anyway I always love hearing about this stuff.
but she almost ate her yubis foe using keigo with her
At the start I thought Korone said, "Keijo" for a second. XD
La la lion is formally laid back
I wonder how she would react if she played Megaman X5 and followed the true end of the game, with X holding Zero in her arms and... Oh God T-T
I'm thinking that Korone wants people to talk to her as 'naturally' as possible. When most people use polite speech (keigo), I think it sounds forced/unnatural. Whereas with Botan, she might be using polite speech mixed in her everyday life so it sounds more natural.
It's just a guess, I have no idea if this is entirely true.
In Germany during what you would call elementary and middle school we are spoken to casually by the teachers. We don't only have "you" we have "du" (casual) and "sie" (formal [our second plural pronoun, not the pronoun for female people and things #germanisweird ] ) as pronouns. And in high-school the teachers will speak formally like to an adult to you. And it was hard to get used to it. And some teachers didn't do it some did. Well you feel old when you are spoken to like that.
Imagine if Marine attempted to do that with Korone.
Remember that video Marine made where she got slapped? Pretty much that.
OKKUSENMAN OKKUSENMAAAANN
Korone : Don't use Keigo when you're talking with me
Botan : *Exist*
Korone : BUT there is an exception
Nahone~~~
I assume with Botan its cause shes so tactical
You don't need to learn polite Japanese if the only person you talk to is Korone
Korone: Don't be stiff, just be casual with me
Botan: Okay SENPAI
Korone: I said be casual with me !
Botan: It's exactly because I being casual with you that I have no obligation to obey you to not call you senpai, right ?
Korone: . . . what the f-
cute dog and cat.
I wonder if it's because Botan often uses Keigo sarcastically, so Korone doesn't feel like there is a wall or gap between them?
As a Filipino I can sorta relate.
I also dont like it when people speak to me super politely.
What about Coco? The only Japanese she speaks is keigo
Everyone: No, no no you can not Just say " Osu " insted of " Ohayo Gozaimasu " all Japanese people speak polite everytime
Japanese Evil dog god: I don't like keigo
Obs: I know is not cool speaking with slangs to strangers ( in Japan maybe )
....so dog is more higher than lion?
Remember, Botan is the only HoloMem that is confirmed to be older than Korone.
... Wait, for real? How old is Korone??? She sounds and acts rather young, so I pegged her as around or just a little older than Fubuki (who turned 19 quite recently)!
@@MarqFJA87 fubuki did drinking stream so she's at least 20
@@Yuujin_K Well she said she was 18 on a stream in August last year, and her birthday is October 5, so... when was the drinking stream?
@@MarqFJA87 18 is her "character" age. like marine is always 17
@@MarqFJA87 Fubuki is Mio's classmate so she probably in late 20s to early 30s
I kinda get it, in German you 2 different personal pronouns you can use. 'du' and 'Sie', the former is casual the latter is formal (English to have it too 'thou' for casual and 'you' for formal).
However basically everyone who is a millennial or younger doesn't use the formal pronoun with someone who's around their age. They only use it when the age gap is quite significant.
Koro-chan cheating on Okayu again?
"Why settle for a housecat when you can get a lion?" Does sound fitting for a c_____d tittle
its usually the other way around
1:25 don't you mean "3 months _after_ that" ?
0:57 BRAZIL TEAM
come to brazil
It reminds you of your age right? **wink** **wink**
I forgorr when will korone be back?
Lol
isn't Korone like the oldest in Hololive (might be Fubuki idk) which would make her wanna talk to others casually
Oldest is Botan, then either Korone and Mio, then Fbk and Watame
Nucd
I'm the same way honestly. Just chill. I'm pretty upfront which means I'm Hella nice but I can be just as crass, if not more so. Lol.
whats that song called?
Counterpoint: Botan is the only one who doesn't make Korone feel old, as she's the only one older than Korone.
I can say as a 40 year old, I'd much rather be called "sir" by a 50 year old than by a 28 year old. And I'm a he/him.
Because botan is older than Korone in real life
Not to give too much away, but I think this is actually because Botan is much older than all of the other Holomem. She's like in her 40s or 50s, so there's a certain aspect of "expected seniority" where the other Holomems respect everything she does/says. I'm sure it's not JUST because of her seniority, but I think that definitely plays a part.
lol 40 - 50? No she's not, and even if she's older it wouldn't make sense for an older person to talk in keigo to a younger person
@@DoozyyTV love how you are stating it as a fact when you know nothing botan was a pro Esports player called ereco her yt channel is still up so you can go and check it yourself she is 45 now and korone is 37 being the 2nd oldest hololive member so botan is the only person in hololive older than her
Botan is old but nowhere near 50 lmao, in any case she's closer to 40s, it's not like Mio or Korone are that younger either (or Watame and Fbk for the matter) why do you think they're playfully called "Holohags" in the community, in any case we can't be 100% sure as not even Botan or her roommate had state an specific age, not even in her older tweets.