Mr Galloup - I've learned more about fly fishing from your 'debunking' videos, than I have from all the hundreds of 'how to' vids' I've viewed. Thank you sir. Ray
Took my brand new Battle II 5000 for a spin yesterday for the very first time and I hooked a 20lb yellowtail using a Ugly Stik X2 (medium hard) rod ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxM68VkfsQhHaabDce1IwOCXuvumcpbZ_k . This combo was recommended on some website and it did not disappoint me. The reel is smooth, the drag click is pretty cool cause i think it adds to the excitement of fighting the fish, personally the drag is my favorite part. I use braid and 300 yards will fill the entire spool. This combo is my main setup from now on although I have to disclose I am new to fishing.
This is absolutely the best comments and explanation i've ever seen or heard about rods and fly-lines and about casting a line. This is what i have ment in many years but no one will listen. Everybody only talks about the length they are casting and other dum shit. Great! Thank you!
Great video Kelly, so true about this over emphasis in distance, I live in Ireland and my Dad taught me to fly fish when I was 10, he always said Jim always fish the shore line before you think of casting further, I never forgot his advice some of my biggest brown trout were caught within 20 feet from the shore of the lakes I fish in Donegal. It is refreshing to hear such good common sense from an angler who knows what he is talking about. Well said Kelly. Regards Jim
Heard that same whole thing 35 years ago at a fly shop when I bought my first Sage rod and WF fly line and up lining the rod 1 size , need the RP rod and a WF line to get distance ... Can't cast a lick over 30' . Gonna try a DT line next. Thank you very much
Great advice!. I have been fly fishing for over 40 years and agree with him 100% on this. Most of my fish are caught at short distances. Practice wadding closer in and casting shorter and you will catch more fish.
Very rarely leave comments, almost never, but here I have to. I'm glad someone explain to people the essence of fly fishing. Everything you said here is 100% right. I personally have the same experience, and I think the traders began assuming fly fishing. And that's why this is going on in recent years, lying on line class and the class of rod, just to sell.
Dude I just have to say, your videos are my favorite of all that I've seen about western fly fishing gear. The way you spell it out and cut through the BS is great. I haven't used my western rod in about 6 years (I usually fish Tenkara because I'm an ultralight backpacker) but you really make me want to go out with my old rod again... good shit. I'll be watching more of these for sure, need to touch up on all that stuff I forgot from a bunch of years ago before I pull the reel out of the closet again :)
Great video, I appreciate the information. I fish with an old school fly fisher and he complains regularly about the lack of consistency between the various line manufacturers.
I have used a 6wt or 5wt DT line and a sage rpl 3 9 ft 2 pc since the 90s ,never considered distance a factor,I mostly fish dryflys a lot of midges.I am 59 now and just bought a nrx 5wt,love it.I fish a spinning rod with a rabbit hair jig on rivers but interested in that new bank robber rod, st croix HMG is my favorite spinning rod.I use a quigley cripple in some variation from midges to mayflys,a lot of barr emergers,and bead head pheasant tails,in lakes I mostly use type 2 sinking line and a mohair leech.I have been loving your videos,hope to stop buy your shop this year.Thanks
Kelly, another great example of long casts, is in golf. I have played with may guys who can hit a drive 300+ yards. Of course they don't have a short game, so they still don't score. I've been bass fishing for 40+years, I know, it isn't distance, its accuracy. You are right on target. By the way, I have the white Jeep pulling the RPod. I've stayed at your place a couple of times, and will be back in the early spring.
Great video, good old common sense about practical fishing instead of getting all nerdy about the gear. Perfect for me as I'm new to fly fishing. Instant subscribe.
As a custom rod builder I need to find out what line works best for the rod I just built, otherwise the client will use a line of his/her choosing and they may think my rod sucks or they may not realize they can get better performance out of a different line. It is getting more difficult to tell the difference because most new fast rod blanks are made for a half size up line. For saltwater, for distance in open water, there is an advantage for long casts in many situations. With most river scenarios that is not that important until wind comes in to play. To me, the main thing is that the line companies need to be honest about the line weights and tapers. All your videos are great and informative.
Greetings from New Zealand. Man, you make so much sense! The other thing I really appreciate is your ability to communicate succinctly in good English, without the "aaaahhhh", "ummmm" and "errr" that others litter in their dialogue, making me want to smash my laptop. I love your comment about over-lining a rod. Never thought of it that way but I am now a bit more informed thanks to your knowledge and willingness to share it.
Bang on . Most of the fish you will catch , are no more than 15-20 yards out . There is simply no need to bust a gut to get distance . Fly turnover and presentation are far more important . I see some fly lines now selling at £120 ! If someone said 10-15 years ago , that lines would break the £100 mark , you would have laughed at them . I've been using Airflo lines now for years , and they have really come on leaps and bounds regards memory , low stretch , and longetivity . And they are £50 or under . Same with Cortland lines , no BS just good quality dependable and long lasting lines .
Thank you for telling the truth about lines and reels. I've just started watching your videos and agree 100% about what I've seen and heard. I fish creeks in Smokey Mtns. So thankfully to have a expert to be truthfully about it,,you have a new fan in me
Some really good points. The only new rod ive bought in the past 9 years is a txl 3/70. The whole premium rod market has gone nuts with fast action rods - sales hype. Any caster worth their salt should be able to use a moderate action rod and be able to get tight loops and serviceable distance. It comes down to being in good control of the rod tip and smooth power application.
Hi Kelly, I enjoyed your discussion on lines and reels. I think you have a point in terms of trout fishing. Most casts for trout are probably way less than 40 ft and reels are used primarily for storing line. Click and Pawl drags are more than adequate. I have been fishing for trout in the West since the 80's and have never had a fish take my line into the backing. Not even close! However, salt water fishing is a completely different sport. Casts of 50' -60' feet are the norm and casting to 80' is useful for hookups with Tarpon and Bonefish. These fish can easily eat up backing and even spool you, if you are not on your game. For Tarpon, Bonefish and Permit, it is worth buying the best reels with top quality drags made with salt water resistant parts and Rods with strong salt water resistant components that are designed to cast out to 80' or so.
Thanks for this. Yeah I've been taking single hand line weights with a grain of salt, especially after getting more into two handed rods. I think it would probably make more sense for the consumer to think in terms of grains and taper rather than line weights. I was in my local fly shop explaining to the dude that I wanted a line for my new Sage 3 weight, and he knew I had a #4 Rio Gold. He recommended a Rio Perception #3 line . I looked at the head weight of both and they were virtually identical. Been fishing the #4 Gold on it just fine, considering it's a fast 3 (and like you said probably closer to a 4 weight rod). Try what you have (reels, lines, rods) with other stuff you have before you go out and buy something else.
Absolutely true. Bought a new 6 wt Temple Fork with Lefty Kreh - and was surprised at the DT line distance. Stalk more - cast less yup. Personally always thought fundamentals count so i bought the early Lefty Kreh videos to learn to cast. just like golf - where one swing tells all - one cast tells all. all the best.
The hijack has been going on a lot longer than 20 years, though the specific up lining part might be from then. Step one was graphite, which was great, and did give everyone a boost regardless of action, just because it is so much lighter and thinner. Boron rods were the next step, more distance only rods. And then all the modulus upgrades and faster rods. I did the cut the DT line in half thing around 1980, but didn't really like it because a lot of my fishing was searching type, and I did shoot and cover water, and I just cut the DT too long for the load of my rod, so it didn't shoot well, and I don't know why I didn't recut it. So thanks for the reminder. I think I may buy a few lines and mess with them, with kids coming along, I can find good matches, and save bit of line for other projectsfor other projects.
I can verify this on a different level. I was "out of fly fishing" for almost 20 years. When I decided it was time to get back in, I ordered a $120 line because I'd never fished a "premium" or "top tier" line before. I put the 4 wt line on my old ( 22 year old but still in perfect shape) Cabela's LST rod. Loved that rod. Always cast very well. Favorite rod. ................ the new line cast like total garbage. Now, I didn't go way into trying to find out why this was the case, but I did end up putting every new 5 wt. line I bought onto my 4 wt. rods. So, it was pretty evident that something had changed in the last 20 years. A few weeks later I bought some Orvis Clearwater line ( is that the only line they make now? Just that one line???) It was all I could find and it was only $50. Bought a 5 wt line. Put it on a 5 wt. rod to see what would happen..... cast like a dream, unlike the $120 hot garbage line that neither cut the air or had very good flow. Ahem. So as someone who was out of it for a long time, it's all a brand new learning curve on lines and rods and trying to fit new lines to old rods has been a pain, but there's no way in hell I'm paying $1000 for a FISHING ROD to just catch a fish. Anyway, thanks for telling the truth on all this. People wouldn't believe me when I said things weren't right with regard to line weights and actual line weights. No one ever believes me, though so I'm not sure why I was surprised to be met with ridicule and insults over it. Fly fishing has apparently become more cult-like than it was back in the day, as well? Dunno. Weird.
I am so glad that rods seem to be pulling back a bit from who can build the fastest, maybe the greatest thing the fiberglass guys brought back was a return to sense. And the match of line to rod has made all the difference to my days on water.
very interesting kelly. My first line was double taper and I learnt how to cast and found the first year of fishing I had remarkable results and have since thought about that and realise it was because most of my casts were only 5 - 6 mtrs long and as my casting improved I started looking at the other sides of rivers and thought it looked better so tried casting over there. I also got fooled by these WF non stretch lines. I find it very difficult to buy double taper lines in most NZ fishing shops and often look just out of couriosty. I used cheap WF Chinese lines now $8.00 and they are as good as most $140.00+ NZ lines. Truth be known they are probably some high profile label lines just not packaged and labelled as such. Thank you Slideinn I was introduced to your site by a gentleman I meet on the Ruakituiri River New Zealand by the the name of Jim he was using one of your Black Boobie Galloups
Right on, Kelly! Caveat Emptor...because modern marketing is fiendishly effective at giving less for more -- and the marketing around fly fishing is a prime example.
I've found that in slower moving, meandering rivers with wary fish, the ticket is to get into the water and throw an absolute hero cast upstream. For me, that long hero cast is an important part of my arsenal, and I feel it makes me more well-rounded as an angler. Feeling like a badass when I throw it is a bonus.
I'm a little late in the game as an angler, starting at the ripe age of 28, but, here's my thoughts on a wf. for dry flying, any decent angler should be able to accurately cast 30' with a dt no problem but, this is summer fishing with needle thin tippet, low flows, and clear water. This is my first year fishing the skagit, and if you've seen it in the winter, you'll soon see why that wf line, and famous skagit shooting head, will come into use. When the water is calm in the winter, and salmon and steely only take under water tactics, and you're twenty feet plus from your holes than in the summer, those wf lines are the only way you'll get a heavy steamer or nymph to where you need it. it's really hard to through a heavy steamer with split shot for any use with a st. I've tried ha ha. keep in mind I'm only using a wf on a 9' 8w single hand. never on my 6wt which had handled every summer river I've come across.
Christopher- I agree with you on your second point, as the steelhead game on big coastal rivers is a different animal entirely ,and there is a need for more powerful tapers in order to get your flies into the zone (especially when your back cast is limited). I've never fished the Skagit but have been out to the OP and I much prefer a skagit style line for swinging flies out there. I think the points that Kelly is trying to make have a little more to do with trout and saltwater fishing but appreciate your response. -- John
I'd be willing to bet I have not bought a new fly line in close to 30 years... take good care of them and keep them clean and polished and they should last a long time.
I fish a lot, and for a Floating line for my trout fishing its DT, and my casting well under 30 feet! I have legs I came move! For bass fishing they I go to the heavier lines for that purpose and dittos for my inshore cold water salt water fishing! My favorite rod to this very day is a 8'6" Sage RP II 5wt for trout fishing, I had to send it back for a reel seat repair and didn't want to be with out a 5 wt rod, so I bought an Sage RP III- that rod was way to stiff, I didn't like it with a 5 wt line, and by accident I took that rod on a trip and didn't take my 5 wt reels, but I had a 6wt, I learned that that RP-III was really a 6 wt rod and it became a favorite for light bass fishing and for tossing streamers! I think one of the reasons Glass has made the come back is just as you have said, they are making the rods for casting on the lawn and not for fishing! I hope that I can get out to the Madison this year its been some time since I been out there!
This video is straight common sense. The only time I really need to reach way out is blind casting streamers on big water. I will cast long and then retrieve. But most trout fishing is within 40 feet, most often closer. I don't need a rod that casts an entire fly line. That why I prefer bamboo, glass, or slower, progressive graphite, like the older Orvis rods, of which I own several. My faster rods are confined to salt water flats fishing.
I live at a river where I can't reach some holes with a 9 feet fly rod and are using a spey rod and do this with great success. I think context is very important on this topic.
this is my goto MONO Line for catfishing hands down. If I use it as main line it's amazing. If I use it as backer for braid it's amazing. I have reeled in fish of all sizes on big game mono and I trust it come tournament time.
True Dat! I remember Sage was the one back in the 80's that had an advanced marketing machine and decided fast is better and then each year for decades it became a race to make faster and faster rods- which meant you had to buy another 9' 5# weight every year. This engendered all the over lining, WF taper discussion and the like. I thought "really" and never bought into all the crap and hype either. Call it like you see it Kelly...
At last I am hearing the truth. I am 66. Over the years I have seen so many fads. Heave rods and lines , then lightweight, now back to lightweight. I have been over lining rods for years but was on a guilt trip over this. I feel absolved.
Thanks woody harrelson. In all seriousness I agree that short accuracy is more important for trout for the most part, but for people where I live that fish for a lot of Atlantic salmon, id argue that distance is important when working over large pools where you can't see the fish
I always steer a newcomer(to flyfishing ) toward a DT. First thing though, have they taken a fly casting class from an accredited instructor.Usually not. Best investment they can make. The sales/ marketing forces have conditioned people to think that a WF line is easier for a beginner to cast.
I bought RIO Gold! I'm the man. All jokes aside now I'll say why - I liked the color combination with my backing and the store price matched Amazon who had it for half of retail so it felt like a deal. I run cheap line on my back up rods they still cast. I run an 8'6" 5WT not the highly recommended 9' because I cast into the water in front of me not 200' downstream. I went through my paps rod collection after he recently passed. He has many rods from the 50s to current. Guess what, no bells and whistles but they still caught fish. If anything people are now searching for old tech (bamboo and glass).
The most I have ever casted with a dry at a trout is 30 ft id say I use wf lines orvis ,Rio lines and after this video im gonna buy a double taper and see how it preforms in just general purpose trout fishing dries and nymphs
Kelly I'd like to hear your opinion on fast and ultra fast action rods? Personally it comes across as more of a marketing point to me, as if some university graduates have been let loose to fire people up on stiffer rods, tighter loops and more achievable distance. Yes their maneuver heavy flies better and casting in wind is made easier which I agree with, absolutely, but I have found that the medium or even slow action rods can perform and overcome those same obstacles with adequate practice yet it tires out the fish a lot more efficiently and uses the kinetic energy of the bend/load to present the fly at shorter distances very delicately, furthermore I find that fast actions aren't the best for lighter tippets, and it seems to make sense to some people to pay $600 on a fly reel that has smooth light drags in order to protect the tippet yet it's counteracted by a fast rod which really seems to be unforgiving on that same tippet and probably costs over $800 on top of that all. Also it seems most top rod manufacturers seem to give the slower action rods away for quite a reasonable price which for me is a huge positive as I found them to be brilliant. I'd like to hear your thoughts & opinions on this topic if that's not too much to ask, either by comment or video. Many thanks, great tutorials and videos btw.
You are right. Fast rods are for distance, in most cases. it stands to reason that you are going to need to move the line faster to reach out. Your power stroke is going to need to get it on, and the rod has to have the timing to do it. A fast action and very good weight to stiffness ratio (modulus) gets it done. But studies show that they only work even for that deal for elite distance casters. It is like golf where stiff shafts are for the elite, but even at the elite level some guys have a different swing profile and may actually get better results with slower sticks. In golf though, they rate the shafts scientifically, and base the application on computer modeling of the golfer's swing, and profiles of the shaft. I built my first rods in the 70s, and after a few glass rods, graphite arrived and I still fish those rods, they were great, and still are great. Then later I picked up 3 blanks in the 10-11 foot from the same period. All loomis rods. They were guns in their day, but today they are not in the leadgue
These days when I buy blanks, I am buying some pretty cheap rods like Rain something or other. I just put them together, make sure they are straight; then I bend the every 2 feet or so to check out how stiff they are and how the action progresses. If I like what I find, OK. I don't pay attention to what the names ore claims are. It is raw material.
I have a St. Croix High Stick Drifter Fly Rod: 10 Foot, 4 Piece, #4, What would be the best line for this setup, Should I buy a true 4wt line, any suggestions for line appreciated. I fish small rivers and some streams back east (NJ & PA) for trout
Most fish are caught at short range i agree, precision are the most important, and best made at short range, but i just can se here is an expect telling, that going to cast 50 or 60 feet is a huge step, and is not possible with precision, that not true i have to say, here in Denmark, we are a lot of coastal fisher that cast easy the fly between 80-108 feet # 6 rods, with out any problem, offcource the precision isent great out here, but still done with a straight line. Precision a the range a 50-60 feet, well it depends of what you call precision, offcourse you cant spot a fish at 50 feet and be sure to put it right on its nose, but if this is the only fish you spot, it will be nice to give it a try, so guys dont limit your self, if you think its not possible, then offcourse it isent. :-) Tight lines
Finally...I would be proud to show you my favorite streams. One had a couple of pools you couldn't sight fish because of the terrain and the bottom of this long shallow was loose rock and noisy. You had to fish the water rather than specific fish. Nine times out of ten I would be there with the setting sun to my back making long shadows. I'm positive I made 60 foot and better casts there and caught fish. Not out of some "look what I can do" purpose but because I was FISHING. That's where the fish were and where my Caddis had to be. I used a 9'6" split bamboo rod, no idea what weight it was. It was 90 years old and any labeling long gone. Mom got it from her grandfather as a teen, and he brought it with him from Germany in 1895. She remembered it as being a 9 weight but I ran 7. I didn't have anyone to teach me. I remembered what I'd seen with my birth father and his family. What I'd seen on TV. I went to the library and got a book, the video store and got a VHS tape, and figured it out. Nobody to tell me I "COULDN'T" do this or that. I don't fish pretty, but I catch fish. As hard as a long cast may be, I found tight cover to be far more of an issue as I prefer small waters. Especially with that long ass rod. Quite challenging. Overcoming that challenge was indeed a large part of the joy. To the person who stole that rod, my others, and my rattlesnake rattles, I hope you at least knew what you were taking.
Not much of a fly fisherman anymore and it's interesting to hear you debunk a lot of myth about fly fishing .There were guys who could probably hit a dixie cup at a hundred feet but they are all dead now because I've seen them do it the winter with the wind howling and their guides freezing up half the time. These guys were amazing . Most of them fished junk. There was one guy I knew who was even offered nice gear by a fly shop owner and he turned it down .Said he didn't need it . Another guy I knew used Pfleuger medalists reels balanced with filed down toilet bolts .Their gear worked like Swiss watches and all of them landed winter salmon in the fifty pound class . Most of them didn't buy lines but scrounged clearance stuff from old out of business sales and made their own lines from that and a lot of rubber cement . I'd hate to tell you how far I once shot a line at a casting pond and you'd probably call me a liar ,but your right about how distance has hijacked real fishing for the purpose of equipment sales .Delivery is far overlooked . The rationale for buying fishing gear has left the building like Elvis and fly fisherman have gotten to be like women buying shoes . The thing that amazes me is that you can see a fly fisherman chucking something out there and he has this leader and line setup that has nothing to do with the water out in front of him or the fish in it .
Great advice. The super dry camo airflow is an awesome line. I use it in NZ and presents well, agree accuracy over distance, esp stalking Browns in back country long distance casting is a killer.
Thanks for this. Distance is king in the surf, so hardcore WF shooters are the ticket. But I would never use a WF shooter on my 3 WT fishing dries. Different tool for a different beast.
Not sure what you mean by if you get a double tapper line you have two lines? I mostly saltwater fish I like to fish for speckled Sea Trout. I the time. Bought my Reel the sales guy put the line on. He said it was weight forward. I have a St. Crorix 9’ 9wt rod. The reel is a Okuma airframe AF 4/6. Never been able to cast that far anyway probably 17 to 18ft. Not sure my setup is matched up right. Any suggestions ?
T, Double tapers have the same taper on each end of the lin, if you cut it in half the you would have two identical lines that were 45 or 50 feet long. kelly
Dude- your one of the most honest people in your industry- down to the nitty gritty no panties thong wear of fly fishing. While other fly fisherman wear mommie jeans, your methods are like a tight wearing pair of leggings that our L.A. girls wear down here. In other words, your aim is true, and your fucking hilarious. Since there is very little fly fishing here in Los Angeles except weirdos like myself who just enjoy casting a rod regardless if you catch something or not- I have to purchase some real sub par equipment that can cause personal injury like I did with that damn stiff Scientific Angler "starter set." I have settled in with some of the old GFY Pflueger Medalists, and I used to have a Fenwick FF535 that I could cast pretty damn far with...but again, in a lake, a lot of your trout are near shore unless you wanna do a little trolling that I would never do with a fly rod. When the smoke clears, it's really the fisherman not the gear that lands a freezer full of fish, how many you catch and release or just plain ass have a fun casting day. Your videos are very informative and entertaining, and even though i can't sit still i sat through two of 'em before I wrote this out. Thank You for the wonderful contributions you have provided to an industry that is looked down upon by people who just don't want to give the fish a chance.
Liked your discussion on line tapers but I live in Fl and want to use an 8 or 9 weight for bigger flies jigs and poppers. (Mostly salt) Do you think your ideas about DT vs WF apply in this situation? And also, what about sinking tip? Thanks, Eric
you make really good videos,i have gained a lot of knowledge, i am just restarting flyfishing after a 40 year break,back when i was a teen we attached a tapered leader to the fly line with a little metal eye screw, and i never learned how to attach a leader to line or tippet to leader properly.how about a a video explaing this?thanks for the good video's
The future of fly lines is to pack the weight of the line into a much shorter section. The weighted fly line should be at most 10' in length. Would this work ?
I agree but I do like to make a long cast every now and then. Just for the fun of it. I can still cast the whole fly line, with certain rods, when it's not windy. I've never caught a trout that way. Ever. But I did catch and release a bonefish at 85' feet once. Shine Greene is my witness. He still mentions it when I see him. Weight forward lines are designed to make us buy twice as many fly lines?
I'm watching Kelly, and learning more about the practical aspects of the art of fly fishing, than from any other You-tuber. Anyway, I have a question which I hope you can help with: I'm a total novice, but am totally hooked, and have bought a number of second hand reels loaded with line, but with no reference to the # of the line. As the relationship between rod and line is critical, how can I gauge the # of the lines so's I can use them to best effect without having to just replace them? Many thanks. Ray
Ray- A lot of the newer lines have the model and line weight laser printed on the line. Unless you see this, or have the line identification sticker attached to the inside of the spool, it is very difficult to find out what line is actually on it
Very insightful video. Most of my fishing is saltwater, only because I live on the coast and it's close. You video got me thinking about my lines so I googled several and reviewed the specs. Inasmuch as you were talking about the average caster/fisherman I would like to hear your opinion on the mind boggling variety of "heads" offered. There are numerous different measurements of the tips, front taper, belly, and rear tapers offered on fly lines. Often minuscule such as 2, 4, 6.5, etc. front tapers. Granted, I am average at best (I can through a line somewhere out in front of me about 80' but only my wife was impressed) but what skills do I need to be able to tell the difference? Can anybody really distinguish between say two or three different 8wt WF floating fly lines in a blind test?
Kelly, a lot of talk on leaders, fly lines etc in north America all the time. Something that would be nice to get a take on, at some stage in the early season this year if possible - would be something like the Jeremy Lucas micro-fly lines. He's going back, back to an old fashioned idea about fly fishing - it takes us back even further than nineteen seventies. A bit like in 'Top Gear' automobile show on TV, once they tested a modern high horsepower 'boy racer' sports GTI against an old low horsepower sports car. It was on a track with a narrow road with lots of bends, so the modern sports car couldn't open up it's engine, and the old vehicle with a different chassis design had better corner handling etc.
We got into fly lines period, because it moved away from presentation - and it moved towards 'casting'. I.e. Casting became a separate thing, as divorced from presentation. If one could 'cast' and get good presentation (usually via the 'leader'), at the same time, it was considered a plus. A lot of guys ended up just casting, and not presenting. And then we got the double taper, the forward weight, the shooting head, the switch rod, the shorter belly and so on. What Lucas was doing was interesting, he was saying let's get away from casting altogether. Let's just put it all back into one box, called presentation and try to start again from there.
Basically, what's going on with that, is they managed to get hold of rods used for Euro nymph style - these eleven foot length rods - or around three and four weights. They've designed these micro fly lines, 'presentation' lines they call them, or leader and fly line combinations - paired up with the lightweight nymph rods - and one can fish a dry fly, using tackle that looks a lot like Euro nymph tackle. The reason it took Lucas as long as it did, to come up with the product (he's an engineer by training, and he took time to get it figured out), was the Euro nymph French leaders and lines were designed to cast tiny nymphs - which had small gold beads on the hooks. I.e. Lightweight flies, but nonetheless did have some weight on the hook. So, when you went to small CDC's, Elk hair dries etc, the leader/line had to be re-designed.
What I'm saying is that one go back even further than the seventies, as I compared it in the automobiles in England, when one had much smaller horsepower engines, with more sophisticated chassis and wheel balancing arrangements, with better suspension, under carriage engineering etc - leading to sports cars that could drive on windy, narrow roads back then - without having to reduce foot from throttle. It's the same in fly lines and rods - we had a period, that was way, way back - and the emphasis was not on horsepower, it was on road handling and manouver. Like Lucas, with his rods and lines, is getting drifts to his dry flies - owing to the lightness of the overall set up - that are twice and three times longer than drifts using dry flies that one can get with modern fly line and leader set up's. You can imagine the difference that that can make - to the actual fishing part of the equation in dry fly.
That is interesting, I am going to chase that down. The only thing I would wonder is that "presentation" taking over from distance, in a mad rush to a new thing. If you are hunting the fish, how often do you need 3 times the drift? At one point presentation is just what happens as you work the endgame of the hunt. But it can also become a different form of on the water quest, divorced from the real objective. The other side of that is the Catskill specialist with the the Adams who outfishes most from perfect surgical technique. Or the pocket water specialist. I still think there is something to be said for a decent rod, and enough creativity to fish almost anything anywhere. with a 6 weight you can do a heck of a lot of fishing from bonefish, to bass, to a lot of trout water (with line and leader changes). Or you can buy Tenkara, and now French, and spey, and this and that. It's all cool if you want to go that root.
I think the point that Jeremy Lucas might argue, or anyone from that small school of presentation leader, micro-fly line dry fly folk, would make - is that with traditional fly lines, it's not so much getting 'three times' the length of drift. The way that they'd probably look at it, is getting one decent drift, full stop. I.e. The fly line is really fighting against your chances of getting the 'quality' of drift, the quality of 'lift off', and quality of placing fly back down again, without much of a fuss. Often, like, if you read anything from fishers such as Lee Wulff, it's unlikely that migratory fish will 'take' dry flies on one cast. Jeremy Lucas fishes for wild browns - not all parts of the United Kingdom any longer - have rivers where one can fish for wild browns on an affordable water - except in the specific rivers, and parts of the United Kingdom, where he is based. In order to make full use of his access to those kinds of waters, and those stocks of wild trout, he persisted in his effort to find a choice of tackle, line and fly, with a technique, that made sense in that context. Lucas freely admits though, that these cycles do come and go. Like the 'nymph' attached to the dry fly, I'm told was a craze. Euro-nymph technique grew into a craze also.
Kelly, first...love the information. Excellent videos. Someday, could you please create a video that addresses the differences between fly line quality vs. cost? What's the difference between a $99.00 floating line and a $25.00 floating line? Is there enough of a difference to justify the cost? Asking for a friend. Thanks
Not an expert, but I would say the line matters more than the rod. Now I wouldn't say that you need a 100 dollar line but step up to a Cortland 444 line, about 50 bucks and they are a very smooth line. You can't go wrong with that line and it won't break the bank
Fly line question. I am seeing more lines available but I am not finding Sink tip lines. Am I going to have to go back to adding a small lead core trolling line to get a sink tip? Also what are the new gram weight lines about?
Can you explain the double taper and two lines thing I feel like I am miss hearing you do you literally cut it in the center and just tie it to your backing stupid question but i am sure i am not the only one
Tyler, you can cut them in half and store one end on the line spool, or just spool the line on the reel and reverse it when one end wears out. most reels today are large arbor so the lines are not as likely to get as coiled up like the older style reels.
@@kellygalloup6073 thank you for clearing that up I figured that is what you ment but I just wanted to be sure before I go and cut new line lol I will be stoping in your shop when I make it down that way I am just over in bozeman
I've owned and loved one fly rod for the last 25 years, an Orvis Mid Flex 6.0, Graphite, 8', 6wt Trout model. I finally broke it just outside the warranty and nothing in the Orvis store felt the same, but a Superfine glass rod came close. After hearing you talk about the focus on casting distance, I know why. I was already waiting on an Orvis Superfine Touch Graphite 8'6", 5wt to arrive from Ebay and it did today. I'm a bit let down. I was hoping for that nice, slow graphite action I'm so used to, but this newer "5 wt." is almost 2x as thick as my old "6 wt." near the handle. Should I keep my old Orvis Wonderline Gen 3, 6 wt, weight forward line?
I'm agree with you point ! But salmon fishing in big rivers as like Tana and Alta in Norway my request long cast and for most sink 2 or 3 ! There is distance important. My home river Dalälven in Sweden we fish long line and most ledcore like 900grain deep water Express and you fish over depths of 20ft of water steep land sections no wading from there that's fishing for salmon and sea trout here in Scandinavia and were those lines come up from I cast 150ft of line when I'm use my 17ft rod class 13# and heavy tub flys . But grate point of dry fishing my most dry fish I get on 25-35ft line and I'm use DT6 old style Master line from England. Bjorn
All these special lines for bass, carp , bones, reds, etc is way over requirements. One can make slight mods to facilitate fly delivery for an individual in many cases. Keep in mind that many rods can cast 1 or 2 line weights over or under ratings depending on the caster and his or her needs. I have a fine 7wt rod that i perfer to cast a 9wt line
Just a question regarding the topic of distance and not needing to huck a bunch of line out to get into fish. Is this the same if you are stillwater/lake fishing for trout from shore? I ask because I see a lot of fish rising & jumping about 60-80 feet out and am not sure if they are just jumping about or actually feeding. Is this where you want a fast action rod able to get out far with ease? Your advise and feedback are always so helpful and I enjoy your videos to help better myself as an angler!
+Christopher Coleman , Thanks, I am glad you like them and I hope they help a little. As for the fast action rods getting you to the fish that are 60 to 80 out. Like I said in the video, very few people can cast 60 to 80 regardless of the rod. With back cast obstructions I would say almost nobody ,surely not me, so I don't think the rod will be much of a difference maker. From a practical fishing stand point I would say that if you can not reach the target with two or three false cast you should not even bother. Competition casting and fishing are two different beasts. If you ever get the chance to go see a competition you will see a lot of casts that pile up on themselves after too many false casts trying to get an extra 5 or 10 feet (and there is no fly on the leader, just yarn), which would be a disaster if they were fishing. In the fishing realm, the longer the line is in the air the more chance you have of fouling your leader up or plopping the fly where you did not intend it to go. I fish lakes a lot and with some of the best lake guys in the world. I seldom see any of them try to cast 60 feet, and if they/I (not to say I am one of the best, because I am not) try to, half the time the leader or fly is fouled or the intended target is missed. For me personally I concentrate on good, accurate casts under fifty feet and fish the water instead of flogging it. If you look back in time at casting competitions you will see that the new rods and lines have made very little difference in distance-- ten feet maybe? The only thing that can make a longer cast is a lot of practice and not a rod. In reality, even if we could get to the 80 foot mark they would suddenly be a 100 foot from us. That is just how fish are, always just ten feet further than we can get to. Hope that helps
Awesome! Thanks for the response! That makes a lot of sense. I guess it would be wiser to invest in a float tube to reach those fish teasing me out of reach then to throw sloppy casts that disturb the presentation! Thanks again!!!
+Christopher Coleman I prefer Kayak fishing. Travel far, travel fast, stand, sit... I've had trout constantly rising as close as 10' from my kayak at lakes, constantly. The difficult part with that is once you spot the rise, you paddle to it, cast at it.. but by that time the fish has moved on. So you must read the lake, recognize the fish swim patterns, and try to position yourself in front of where they will be. There is no time to cast out 60 feet in a Kayak, and usually that big FLOP of fly line that lands on the water surface just scares the fish in the whole 60' radius...
First, thanks for another awesome video. Question on lines, do you prefer a full sinking or sinking tip on your streamer rigs on rivers? and not for issues of depth but action. do eather effect the action of your presentation for the better?
I prefer full sinks, however my lines are actually 30 foot heads but at that length I consider it a full sink. It is about carrying the fly and keeping it in the depth I decide. I am not a fan of tips for most streamer stuff. I can animate the fly about the same with either type of head. KG
Great info bro!! I'm new to the sport. I fish small streams in TN. My rod calls for 3wt, and I only fish with nymphs. I much prefer level taper line. Cortland precision sells a line that's .022. what weight of line is .022 equivalent too?
Thanks man. The level lines are fine for high sticking but they will not roll cast very well. Not sure if they are going to be better than the 3 wt.( which is not very heavy) would be but you probably are not casting very far so it may work. Those were designed in the great lakes in the 80's for mono replacement but we were using pretty heavy split shot to bounce bottom, it is where the term chuck in duck was invented .022 is a 1 wt. diameter.
Before I learned all the best methods for flyfishing, I bought an 8wt Loomis GL3 and went fishing for 7 weeks, making a loop all around British Columbia. After 7 weeks I could reliably cast 90ft with the Cortland 444 peach wf8. I still haven't got around to fishing big streamers, though I have bought many, but this will be my streamer rod. Anyway, I just developed the habit of judging a rod by how well it can keep the full head flying. Yes, I know I'll catch more fish by fishing close by, but I still see it as how to judge a rod. I just don't think a rod has to be made all that well to cast 7 to 10 yards, and for what you pay for fly rods they should be able to keep the whole head flying. Though I have come to understand that the lighter the rod/ln combo the more hand speed you are going to need. I do give my 4wt echo dry a pass on ever needing to keep the whole head flying, but it's always bothered me that my first rod, a 6wt, just can't come anywhere close to casting like that 8wt GL3 ?circa 1995.
Hey Kelly, great video, really enjoyed it. When you say rods got more faster, does that mean stiffer rod? Or does it mean the rod recover to straight faster?
You got it on both ends. Faster means stiffer and when you hear slow action rods they are much more flimsy in the hand. The "Faster" rods will recover to straight faster and the slower ones will recover a bit slower to straight.
Winston Im6 8 1/2 Two Piece, you can light a pipe waiting for the back cast to load. I've tried all the "New" fast rods and I always go back to my med. slow Winston.
when I learned how to fly fish my reel came pre spooled with a wf line so I used it. i loved it for small poppers when bass fishing but not for trout. I came across this video and then bought a double taper line. wow!! I love the double taper! now I only use the weight forward line for big bass bugs and poppers.
THANK YOU Mr. Galloup!! Winston has fallen victim to this idea. Their new Kairos is just way to dang stiff for short accurate casts. 35-45 feet great. Too bad I don't fish at those distances except maybe on still waters.
Mr Galloup - I've learned more about fly fishing from your 'debunking' videos, than I have from all the hundreds of 'how to' vids' I've viewed. Thank you sir. Ray
Ray, thanks for watching. glad you are enjoying them. KG
Kelly, we appreciate your attitude in fly fishing: always straight forward, focused on the bottom line with no pretense. Just the way we like it!
Great advice, I've been using double taper lines for years & fish dry fly almost every day. The presentation and value can't be beaten.
Great to have someone honest about fly fishing equipment, reels, rods, and lines. Thank you for being so reasonable.
Thank goodness for - at long last - a forthright dose of common sense about modern fly rods, lines, and casting / fly presentation.
+Paul Kenyon
Thanks, and glad you enjoyed it
Most honest angler I've seen across all topics in the sport. No bull attitude. Love it
Took my brand new Battle II 5000 for a spin yesterday for the very first time and I hooked a 20lb yellowtail using a Ugly Stik X2 (medium hard) rod ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxM68VkfsQhHaabDce1IwOCXuvumcpbZ_k . This combo was recommended on some website and it did not disappoint me. The reel is smooth, the drag click is pretty cool cause i think it adds to the excitement of fighting the fish, personally the drag is my favorite part. I use braid and 300 yards will fill the entire spool. This combo is my main setup from now on although I have to disclose I am new to fishing.
found this author / videos by accident. what a great resource. funny, concise, experienced, solid info. so helpful.
This is absolutely the best comments and explanation i've ever seen or heard about rods and fly-lines and about casting a line. This is what i have ment in many years
but no one will listen. Everybody only talks about the length they are casting and other dum shit. Great! Thank you!
Great video Kelly, so true about this over emphasis in distance, I live in Ireland and my Dad taught me to fly fish when I was 10, he always said Jim always fish the shore line before you think of casting further, I never forgot his advice some of my biggest brown trout were caught within 20 feet from the shore of the lakes I fish in Donegal. It is refreshing to hear such good common sense from an angler who knows what he is talking about. Well said Kelly.
Regards
Jim
Heard that same whole thing 35 years ago at a fly shop when I bought my first Sage rod and WF fly line and up lining the rod 1 size , need the RP rod and a WF line to get distance ...
Can't cast a lick over 30' . Gonna try a DT line next.
Thank you very much
Great advice!. I have been fly fishing for over 40 years and agree with him 100% on this. Most of my fish are caught at short distances. Practice wadding closer in and casting shorter and you will catch more fish.
Very rarely leave comments, almost never, but here I have to. I'm glad someone explain to people the essence of fly fishing. Everything you said here is 100% right. I personally have the same experience, and I think the traders began assuming fly fishing. And that's why this is going on in recent years, lying on line class and the class of rod, just to sell.
Best advice ever (Y) just sold all my WF lines and got new DT Lines to replace them. Damn, I just love to casting a DT line
As I said so many times I love your attitude and how you present things. Thank you so much for what you do👍
Dude I just have to say, your videos are my favorite of all that I've seen about western fly fishing gear. The way you spell it out and cut through the BS is great. I haven't used my western rod in about 6 years (I usually fish Tenkara because I'm an ultralight backpacker) but you really make me want to go out with my old rod again... good shit. I'll be watching more of these for sure, need to touch up on all that stuff I forgot from a bunch of years ago before I pull the reel out of the closet again :)
Glad to hear you dig the videos, and we'll do our best to keep them coming.
Thanks man
Great video, I appreciate the information. I fish with an old school fly fisher and he complains regularly about the lack of consistency between the various line manufacturers.
I have used a 6wt or 5wt DT line and a sage rpl 3 9 ft 2 pc since the 90s ,never considered distance a factor,I mostly fish dryflys a lot of midges.I am 59 now and just bought a nrx 5wt,love it.I fish a spinning rod with a rabbit hair jig on rivers but interested in that new bank robber rod, st croix HMG is my favorite spinning rod.I use a quigley cripple in some variation from midges to mayflys,a lot of barr emergers,and bead head pheasant tails,in lakes I mostly use type 2 sinking line and a mohair leech.I have been loving your videos,hope to stop buy your shop this year.Thanks
Kelly, another great example of long casts, is in golf. I have played with may guys who can hit a drive 300+ yards. Of course they don't have a short game, so they still don't score. I've been bass fishing for 40+years, I know, it isn't distance, its accuracy. You are right on target. By the way, I have the white Jeep pulling the RPod. I've stayed at your place a couple of times, and will be back in the early spring.
Great video, good old common sense about practical fishing instead of getting all nerdy about the gear. Perfect for me as I'm new to fly fishing. Instant subscribe.
As a custom rod builder I need to find out what line works best for the rod I just built, otherwise the client will use a line of his/her choosing and they may think my rod sucks or they may not realize they can get better performance out of a different line. It is getting more difficult to tell the difference because most new fast rod blanks are made for a half size up line. For saltwater, for distance in open water, there is an advantage for long casts in many situations. With most river scenarios that is not that important until wind comes in to play. To me, the main thing is that the line companies need to be honest about the line weights and tapers. All your videos are great and informative.
Greetings from New Zealand. Man, you make so much sense! The other thing I really appreciate is your ability to communicate succinctly in good English, without the "aaaahhhh", "ummmm" and "errr" that others litter in their dialogue, making me want to smash my laptop. I love your comment about over-lining a rod. Never thought of it that way but I am now a bit more informed thanks to your knowledge and willingness to share it.
Bang on . Most of the fish you will catch , are no more than 15-20 yards out . There is simply no need to bust a gut to get distance . Fly turnover and presentation are far more important . I see some fly lines now selling at £120 ! If someone said 10-15 years ago , that lines would break the £100 mark , you would have laughed at them . I've been using Airflo lines now for years , and they have really come on leaps and bounds regards memory , low stretch , and longetivity . And they are £50 or under . Same with Cortland lines , no BS just good quality dependable and long lasting lines .
Thank you for telling the truth about lines and reels. I've just started watching your videos and agree 100% about what I've seen and heard. I fish creeks in Smokey Mtns. So thankfully to have a expert to be truthfully about it,,you have a new fan in me
You are spot on about casting distances too! I have caught a lot of trout at 15 feet!
Some really good points. The only new rod ive bought in the past 9 years is a txl 3/70. The whole premium rod market has gone nuts with fast action rods - sales hype. Any caster worth their salt should be able to use a moderate action rod and be able to get tight loops and serviceable distance. It comes down to being in good control of the rod tip and smooth power application.
Hi Kelly, I enjoyed your discussion on lines and reels. I think you have a point in terms of trout fishing. Most casts for trout are probably way less than 40 ft and reels are used primarily for storing line.
Click and Pawl drags are more than adequate. I have been fishing for trout in the West since the 80's and have never had a fish take my line into the backing. Not even close! However, salt water fishing is a completely different sport. Casts of 50' -60' feet are the norm and casting to 80' is useful for hookups with Tarpon and Bonefish. These fish can easily eat up backing and even spool you, if you are not on your game.
For Tarpon, Bonefish and Permit, it is worth buying the best reels with top quality drags made with salt water resistant parts and Rods with strong salt water resistant components that are designed to cast out to 80' or so.
Thanks for this. Yeah I've been taking single hand line weights with a grain of salt, especially after getting more into two handed rods. I think it would probably make more sense for the consumer to think in terms of grains and taper rather than line weights. I was in my local fly shop explaining to the dude that I wanted a line for my new Sage 3 weight, and he knew I had a #4 Rio Gold. He recommended a Rio Perception #3 line . I looked at the head weight of both and they were virtually identical. Been fishing the #4 Gold on it just fine, considering it's a fast 3 (and like you said probably closer to a 4 weight rod). Try what you have (reels, lines, rods) with other stuff you have before you go out and buy something else.
14 minutes of honest common sense. ...and I thought I was a slow action double taper black sheep all this time. Thanks Mr Cahill and Galloup !
Absolutely true. Bought a new 6 wt Temple Fork with Lefty Kreh - and was surprised at the DT line distance. Stalk more - cast less yup. Personally always thought fundamentals count so i bought the early Lefty Kreh videos to learn to cast. just like golf - where one swing tells all - one cast tells all. all the best.
THANK YOU for clear, concise and no BS information...!
The hijack has been going on a lot longer than 20 years, though the specific up lining part might be from then. Step one was graphite, which was great, and did give everyone a boost regardless of action, just because it is so much lighter and thinner. Boron rods were the next step, more distance only rods. And then all the modulus upgrades and faster rods.
I did the cut the DT line in half thing around 1980, but didn't really like it because a lot of my fishing was searching type, and I did shoot and cover water, and I just cut the DT too long for the load of my rod, so it didn't shoot well, and I don't know why I didn't recut it. So thanks for the reminder. I think I may buy a few lines and mess with them, with kids coming along, I can find good matches, and save bit of line for other projectsfor other projects.
I can verify this on a different level. I was "out of fly fishing" for almost 20 years. When I decided it was time to get back in, I ordered a $120 line because I'd never fished a "premium" or "top tier" line before. I put the 4 wt line on my old ( 22 year old but still in perfect shape) Cabela's LST rod. Loved that rod. Always cast very well. Favorite rod. ................ the new line cast like total garbage. Now, I didn't go way into trying to find out why this was the case, but I did end up putting every new 5 wt. line I bought onto my 4 wt. rods. So, it was pretty evident that something had changed in the last 20 years. A few weeks later I bought some Orvis Clearwater line ( is that the only line they make now? Just that one line???) It was all I could find and it was only $50. Bought a 5 wt line. Put it on a 5 wt. rod to see what would happen..... cast like a dream, unlike the $120 hot garbage line that neither cut the air or had very good flow. Ahem.
So as someone who was out of it for a long time, it's all a brand new learning curve on lines and rods and trying to fit new lines to old rods has been a pain, but there's no way in hell I'm paying $1000 for a FISHING ROD to just catch a fish. Anyway, thanks for telling the truth on all this. People wouldn't believe me when I said things weren't right with regard to line weights and actual line weights. No one ever believes me, though so I'm not sure why I was surprised to be met with ridicule and insults over it. Fly fishing has apparently become more cult-like than it was back in the day, as well? Dunno. Weird.
I am so glad that rods seem to be pulling back a bit from who can build the fastest, maybe the greatest thing the fiberglass guys brought back was a return to sense. And the match of line to rod has made all the difference to my days on water.
very interesting kelly. My first line was double taper and I learnt how to cast and found the first year of fishing I had remarkable results and have since thought about that and realise it was because most of my casts were only 5 - 6 mtrs long and as my casting improved I started looking at the other sides of rivers and thought it looked better so tried casting over there. I also got fooled by these WF non stretch lines.
I find it very difficult to buy double taper lines in most NZ fishing shops and often look just out of couriosty. I used cheap WF Chinese lines now $8.00 and they are as good as most $140.00+ NZ lines.
Truth be known they are probably some high profile label lines just not packaged and labelled as such.
Thank you Slideinn I was introduced to your site by a gentleman I meet on the Ruakituiri River New Zealand by the the name of Jim he was using one of your Black Boobie Galloups
MysteriousOklahoma . It is not labeled just comes in a clear plastic bag and is a lime color. Bought them from a Chinese place called BTI Sport
Love your no bullshit approach to fishing. New sub!
Right on, Kelly! Caveat Emptor...because modern marketing is fiendishly effective at giving less for more -- and the marketing around fly fishing is a prime example.
I've found that in slower moving, meandering rivers with wary fish, the ticket is to get into the water and throw an absolute hero cast upstream.
For me, that long hero cast is an important part of my arsenal, and I feel it makes me more well-rounded as an angler.
Feeling like a badass when I throw it is a bonus.
I must say kelly this is the first time I agree with you !!! Keep up the videos like this . I have a new view of you !
I'm a little late in the game as an angler, starting at the ripe age of 28, but, here's my thoughts on a wf. for dry flying, any decent angler should be able to accurately cast 30' with a dt no problem but, this is summer fishing with needle thin tippet, low flows, and clear water.
This is my first year fishing the skagit, and if you've seen it in the winter, you'll soon see why that wf line, and famous skagit shooting head, will come into use. When the water is calm in the winter, and salmon and steely only take under water tactics, and you're twenty feet plus from your holes than in the summer, those wf lines are the only way you'll get a heavy steamer or nymph to where you need it.
it's really hard to through a heavy steamer with split shot for any use with a st. I've tried ha ha.
keep in mind I'm only using a wf on a 9' 8w single hand. never on my 6wt which had handled every summer river I've come across.
Christopher-
I agree with you on your second point, as the steelhead game on big coastal rivers is a different animal entirely ,and there is a need for more powerful tapers in order to get your flies into the zone (especially when your back cast is limited). I've never fished the Skagit but have been out to the OP and I much prefer a skagit style line for swinging flies out there. I think the points that Kelly is trying to make have a little more to do with trout and saltwater fishing but appreciate your response. -- John
OMG! Someone finally articulated how i feel at some of these casting events…..thank you Kelly!!!!
I've downloaded all you great video's. They are GREAT stuff!!
One of the best thoughts about lines ever. I had a good laugh too... 😂
Best fly fishing content on you tube.
I'd be willing to bet I have not bought a new fly line in close to 30 years... take good care of them and keep them clean and polished and they should last a long time.
I fish a lot, and for a Floating line for my trout fishing its DT, and my casting well under 30 feet! I have legs I came move! For bass fishing they I go to the heavier lines for that purpose and dittos for my inshore cold water salt water fishing! My favorite rod to this very day is a 8'6" Sage RP II 5wt for trout fishing, I had to send it back for a reel seat repair and didn't want to be with out a 5 wt rod, so I bought an Sage RP III- that rod was way to stiff, I didn't like it with a 5 wt line, and by accident I took that rod on a trip and didn't take my 5 wt reels, but I had a 6wt, I learned that that RP-III was really a 6 wt rod and it became a favorite for light bass fishing and for tossing streamers! I think one of the reasons Glass has made the come back is just as you have said, they are making the rods for casting on the lawn and not for fishing! I hope that I can get out to the Madison this year its been some time since I been out there!
I find that the back cast is most frequently the limiting factor to how far you can cast forward, and that is often blocked by bank, trees, or bushes.
Excellent video! Hit the nail on the head! Thank you.
This video is straight common sense. The only time I really need to reach way out is blind casting streamers on big water. I will cast long and then retrieve. But most trout fishing is within 40 feet, most often closer. I don't need a rod that casts an entire fly line. That why I prefer bamboo, glass, or slower, progressive graphite, like the older Orvis rods, of which I own several. My faster rods are confined to salt water flats fishing.
I live at a river where I can't reach some holes with a 9 feet fly rod and are using a spey rod and do this with great success. I think context is very important on this topic.
this is my goto MONO Line for catfishing hands down. If I use it as main line it's amazing. If I use it as backer for braid it's amazing. I have reeled in fish of all sizes on big game mono and I trust it come tournament time.
True Dat! I remember Sage was the one back in the 80's that had an advanced marketing machine and decided fast is better and then each year for decades it became a race to make faster and faster rods- which meant you had to buy another 9' 5# weight every year. This engendered all the over lining, WF taper discussion and the like. I thought "really" and never bought into all the crap and hype either. Call it like you see it Kelly...
Here is a link to the article we mentioned: www.ginkandgasoline.com/fly-fishing-gear/sunday-classic-has-distance-casting-hijacked-rod-design/
At last I am hearing the truth. I am 66. Over the years I have seen so many fads. Heave rods and lines , then lightweight, now back to lightweight. I have been over lining rods for years but was on a guilt trip over this. I feel absolved.
Secret most lines these days are 1/2 to 3/4 size over the listed size on the box.
Thanks woody harrelson. In all seriousness I agree that short accuracy is more important for trout for the most part, but for people where I live that fish for a lot of Atlantic salmon, id argue that distance is important when working over large pools where you can't see the fish
I always steer a newcomer(to flyfishing ) toward a DT. First thing though, have they taken a fly casting class from an accredited instructor.Usually not. Best investment they can make. The sales/ marketing forces have conditioned people to think that a WF line is easier for a beginner to cast.
Damn, I don't even fly fish but this guy's no bullshit style is refreshing to watch.
I bought RIO Gold! I'm the man. All jokes aside now I'll say why - I liked the color combination with my backing and the store price matched Amazon who had it for half of retail so it felt like a deal. I run cheap line on my back up rods they still cast. I run an 8'6" 5WT not the highly recommended 9' because I cast into the water in front of me not 200' downstream. I went through my paps rod collection after he recently passed. He has many rods from the 50s to current. Guess what, no bells and whistles but they still caught fish. If anything people are now searching for old tech (bamboo and glass).
The most I have ever casted with a dry at a trout is 30 ft id say I use wf lines orvis ,Rio lines and after this video im gonna buy a double taper and see how it preforms in just general purpose trout fishing dries and nymphs
At last I know. Thank you & greets from Poland
Very informational video. Thanks Kelly!
+Fishing Northern Colorado
Thanks and Glad you enjoyed it
Kelly I'd like to hear your opinion on fast and ultra fast action rods?
Personally it comes across as more of a marketing point to me, as if some university graduates have been let loose to fire people up on stiffer rods, tighter loops and more achievable distance. Yes their maneuver heavy flies better and casting in wind is made easier which I agree with, absolutely, but I have found that the medium or even slow action rods can perform and overcome those same obstacles with adequate practice yet it tires out the fish a lot more efficiently and uses the kinetic energy of the bend/load to present the fly at shorter distances very delicately, furthermore I find that fast actions aren't the best for lighter tippets, and it seems to make sense to some people to pay $600 on a fly reel that has smooth light drags in order to protect the tippet yet it's counteracted by a fast rod which really seems to be unforgiving on that same tippet and probably costs over $800 on top of that all. Also it seems most top rod manufacturers seem to give the slower action rods away for quite a reasonable price which for me is a huge positive as I found them to be brilliant.
I'd like to hear your thoughts & opinions on this topic if that's not too much to ask, either by comment or video.
Many thanks, great tutorials and videos btw.
You are right. Fast rods are for distance, in most cases. it stands to reason that you are going to need to move the line faster to reach out. Your power stroke is going to need to get it on, and the rod has to have the timing to do it. A fast action and very good weight to stiffness ratio (modulus) gets it done. But studies show that they only work even for that deal for elite distance casters. It is like golf where stiff shafts are for the elite, but even at the elite level some guys have a different swing profile and may actually get better results with slower sticks. In golf though, they rate the shafts scientifically, and base the application on computer modeling of the golfer's swing, and profiles of the shaft.
I built my first rods in the 70s, and after a few glass rods, graphite arrived and I still fish those rods, they were great, and still are great. Then later I picked up 3 blanks in the 10-11 foot from the same period. All loomis rods. They were guns in their day, but today they are not in the leadgue
These days when I buy blanks, I am buying some pretty cheap rods like Rain something or other. I just put them together, make sure they are straight; then I bend the every 2 feet or so to check out how stiff they are and how the action progresses. If I like what I find, OK. I don't pay attention to what the names ore claims are. It is raw material.
I have a St. Croix High Stick Drifter Fly Rod: 10 Foot, 4 Piece, #4, What would be the best line for this setup, Should I buy a true 4wt line, any suggestions for line appreciated. I fish small rivers and some streams back east (NJ & PA) for trout
Most fish are caught at short range i agree, precision are the most important, and best made at short range, but i just can se here is an expect telling, that going to cast 50 or 60 feet is a huge step, and is not possible with precision, that not true i have to say, here in Denmark, we are a lot of coastal fisher that cast easy the fly between 80-108 feet # 6 rods, with out any problem, offcource the precision isent great out here, but still done with a straight line. Precision a the range a 50-60 feet, well it depends of what you call precision, offcourse you cant spot a fish at 50 feet and be sure to put it right on its nose, but if this is the only fish you spot, it will be nice to give it a try, so guys dont limit your self, if you think its not possible, then offcourse it isent. :-) Tight lines
No way......noooo way....
Finally...I would be proud to show you my favorite streams. One had a couple of pools you couldn't sight fish because of the terrain and the bottom of this long shallow was loose rock and noisy. You had to fish the water rather than specific fish. Nine times out of ten I would be there with the setting sun to my back making long shadows. I'm positive I made 60 foot and better casts there and caught fish. Not out of some "look what I can do" purpose but because I was FISHING. That's where the fish were and where my Caddis had to be. I used a 9'6" split bamboo rod, no idea what weight it was. It was 90 years old and any labeling long gone. Mom got it from her grandfather as a teen, and he brought it with him from Germany in 1895. She remembered it as being a 9 weight but I ran 7.
I didn't have anyone to teach me. I remembered what I'd seen with my birth father and his family. What I'd seen on TV. I went to the library and got a book, the video store and got a VHS tape, and figured it out. Nobody to tell me I "COULDN'T" do this or that. I don't fish pretty, but I catch fish. As hard as a long cast may be, I found tight cover to be far more of an issue as I prefer small waters. Especially with that long ass rod. Quite challenging. Overcoming that challenge was indeed a large part of the joy.
To the person who stole that rod, my others, and my rattlesnake rattles, I hope you at least knew what you were taking.
Not much of a fly fisherman anymore and it's interesting to hear you debunk a lot of myth about fly fishing .There were guys who could probably hit a dixie cup at a hundred feet but they are all dead now because I've seen them do it the winter with the wind howling and their guides freezing up half the time. These guys were amazing . Most of them fished junk. There was one guy I knew who was even offered nice gear by a fly shop owner and he turned it down .Said he didn't need it . Another guy I knew used Pfleuger medalists reels balanced with filed down toilet bolts .Their gear worked like Swiss watches and all of them landed winter salmon in the fifty pound class . Most of them didn't buy lines but scrounged clearance stuff from old out of business sales and made their own lines from that and a lot of rubber cement . I'd hate to tell you how far I once shot a line at a casting pond and you'd probably call me a liar ,but your right about how distance has hijacked real fishing for the purpose of equipment sales .Delivery is far overlooked . The rationale for buying fishing gear has left the building like Elvis and fly fisherman have gotten to be like women buying shoes . The thing that amazes me is that you can see a fly fisherman chucking something out there and he has this leader and line setup that has nothing to do with the water out in front of him or the fish in it .
Great advice. The super dry camo airflow is an awesome line. I use it in NZ and presents well, agree accuracy over distance, esp stalking Browns in back country long distance casting is a killer.
Thanks for this. Distance is king in the surf, so hardcore WF shooters are the ticket. But I would never use a WF shooter on my 3 WT fishing dries. Different tool for a different beast.
Not sure what you mean by if you get a double tapper line you have two lines?
I mostly saltwater fish I like to fish for speckled Sea Trout. I the time. Bought my Reel the sales guy put the line on. He said it was weight forward. I have a St. Crorix 9’ 9wt rod. The reel is a Okuma airframe AF 4/6. Never been able to cast that far anyway probably 17 to 18ft. Not sure my setup is matched up right. Any suggestions ?
T, Double tapers have the same taper on each end of the lin, if you cut it in half the you would have two identical lines that were 45 or 50 feet long. kelly
Dude- your one of the most honest people in your industry- down to the nitty gritty no panties thong wear of fly fishing. While other fly fisherman wear mommie jeans, your methods are like a tight wearing pair of leggings that our L.A. girls wear down here. In other words, your aim is true, and your fucking hilarious. Since there is very little fly fishing here in Los Angeles except weirdos like myself who just enjoy casting a rod regardless if you catch something or not- I have to purchase some real sub par equipment that can cause personal injury like I did with that damn stiff Scientific Angler "starter set." I have settled in with some of the old GFY Pflueger Medalists, and I used to have a Fenwick FF535 that I could cast pretty damn far with...but again, in a lake, a lot of your trout are near shore unless you wanna do a little trolling that I would never do with a fly rod. When the smoke clears, it's really the fisherman not the gear that lands a freezer full of fish, how many you catch and release or just plain ass have a fun casting day. Your videos are very informative and entertaining, and even though i can't sit still i sat through two of 'em before I wrote this out. Thank You for the wonderful contributions you have provided to an industry that is looked down upon by people who just don't want to give the fish a chance.
Liked your discussion on line tapers but I live in Fl and want to use an 8 or 9 weight for bigger flies jigs and poppers. (Mostly salt) Do you think your ideas about DT vs WF apply in this situation?
And also, what about sinking tip?
Thanks,
Eric
a BIG help, thank you!
you make really good videos,i have gained a lot of knowledge, i am just restarting flyfishing after a 40 year break,back when i was a teen we attached a tapered leader to the fly line with a little metal eye screw, and i never learned how to attach a leader to line or tippet to leader properly.how about a a video explaing this?thanks for the good video's
That 5 weight to 4 weight thing is exactly what happened in Golf.
The future of fly lines is to pack the weight of the line into a much shorter section. The weighted fly line should be at most 10' in length. Would this work ?
I agree but I do like to make a long cast every now and then. Just for the fun of it. I can still cast the whole fly line, with certain rods, when it's not windy. I've never caught a trout that way. Ever. But I did catch and release a bonefish at 85' feet once. Shine Greene is my witness. He still mentions it when I see him.
Weight forward lines are designed to make us buy twice as many fly lines?
I'm watching Kelly, and learning more about the practical aspects of the art of fly fishing, than from any other You-tuber. Anyway, I have a question which I hope you can help with: I'm a total novice, but am totally hooked, and have bought a number of second hand reels loaded with line, but with no reference to the # of the line. As the relationship between rod and line is critical, how can I gauge the # of the lines so's I can use them to best effect without having to just replace them? Many thanks. Ray
Ray-
A lot of the newer lines have the model and line weight laser printed on the line. Unless you see this, or have the line identification sticker attached to the inside of the spool, it is very difficult to find out what line is actually on it
Very insightful video. Most of my fishing is saltwater, only because I live on the coast and it's close. You video got me thinking about my lines so I googled several and reviewed the specs. Inasmuch as you were talking about the average caster/fisherman I would like to hear your opinion on the mind boggling variety of "heads" offered. There are numerous different measurements of the tips, front taper, belly, and rear tapers offered on fly lines. Often minuscule such as 2, 4, 6.5, etc. front tapers. Granted, I am average at best (I can through a line somewhere out in front of me about 80' but only my wife was impressed) but what skills do I need to be able to tell the difference? Can anybody really distinguish between say two or three different 8wt WF floating fly lines in a blind test?
I am completely new to fly fishing. Can you use braid instead on mono for your leader? If not what would the reason be. Bass CAtfish and carp only
Kelly, a lot of talk on leaders, fly lines etc in north America all the time. Something that would be nice to get a take on, at some stage in the early season this year if possible - would be something like the Jeremy Lucas micro-fly lines. He's going back, back to an old fashioned idea about fly fishing - it takes us back even further than nineteen seventies. A bit like in 'Top Gear' automobile show on TV, once they tested a modern high horsepower 'boy racer' sports GTI against an old low horsepower sports car. It was on a track with a narrow road with lots of bends, so the modern sports car couldn't open up it's engine, and the old vehicle with a different chassis design had better corner handling etc.
We got into fly lines period, because it moved away from presentation - and it moved towards 'casting'. I.e. Casting became a separate thing, as divorced from presentation. If one could 'cast' and get good presentation (usually via the 'leader'), at the same time, it was considered a plus. A lot of guys ended up just casting, and not presenting. And then we got the double taper, the forward weight, the shooting head, the switch rod, the shorter belly and so on. What Lucas was doing was interesting, he was saying let's get away from casting altogether. Let's just put it all back into one box, called presentation and try to start again from there.
Basically, what's going on with that, is they managed to get hold of rods used for Euro nymph style - these eleven foot length rods - or around three and four weights. They've designed these micro fly lines, 'presentation' lines they call them, or leader and fly line combinations - paired up with the lightweight nymph rods - and one can fish a dry fly, using tackle that looks a lot like Euro nymph tackle. The reason it took Lucas as long as it did, to come up with the product (he's an engineer by training, and he took time to get it figured out), was the Euro nymph French leaders and lines were designed to cast tiny nymphs - which had small gold beads on the hooks. I.e. Lightweight flies, but nonetheless did have some weight on the hook. So, when you went to small CDC's, Elk hair dries etc, the leader/line had to be re-designed.
What I'm saying is that one go back even further than the seventies, as I compared it in the automobiles in England, when one had much smaller horsepower engines, with more sophisticated chassis and wheel balancing arrangements, with better suspension, under carriage engineering etc - leading to sports cars that could drive on windy, narrow roads back then - without having to reduce foot from throttle. It's the same in fly lines and rods - we had a period, that was way, way back - and the emphasis was not on horsepower, it was on road handling and manouver. Like Lucas, with his rods and lines, is getting drifts to his dry flies - owing to the lightness of the overall set up - that are twice and three times longer than drifts using dry flies that one can get with modern fly line and leader set up's. You can imagine the difference that that can make - to the actual fishing part of the equation in dry fly.
That is interesting, I am going to chase that down. The only thing I would wonder is that "presentation" taking over from distance, in a mad rush to a new thing. If you are hunting the fish, how often do you need 3 times the drift? At one point presentation is just what happens as you work the endgame of the hunt. But it can also become a different form of on the water quest, divorced from the real objective.
The other side of that is the Catskill specialist with the the Adams who outfishes most from perfect surgical technique. Or the pocket water specialist. I still think there is something to be said for a decent rod, and enough creativity to fish almost anything anywhere. with a 6 weight you can do a heck of a lot of fishing from bonefish, to bass, to a lot of trout water (with line and leader changes). Or you can buy Tenkara, and now French, and spey, and this and that. It's all cool if you want to go that root.
I think the point that Jeremy Lucas might argue, or anyone from that small school of presentation leader, micro-fly line dry fly folk, would make - is that with traditional fly lines, it's not so much getting 'three times' the length of drift. The way that they'd probably look at it, is getting one decent drift, full stop. I.e. The fly line is really fighting against your chances of getting the 'quality' of drift, the quality of 'lift off', and quality of placing fly back down again, without much of a fuss. Often, like, if you read anything from fishers such as Lee Wulff, it's unlikely that migratory fish will 'take' dry flies on one cast.
Jeremy Lucas fishes for wild browns - not all parts of the United Kingdom any longer - have rivers where one can fish for wild browns on an affordable water - except in the specific rivers, and parts of the United Kingdom, where he is based. In order to make full use of his access to those kinds of waters, and those stocks of wild trout, he persisted in his effort to find a choice of tackle, line and fly, with a technique, that made sense in that context.
Lucas freely admits though, that these cycles do come and go. Like the 'nymph' attached to the dry fly, I'm told was a craze. Euro-nymph technique grew into a craze also.
Kelly, first...love the information. Excellent videos. Someday, could you please create a video that addresses the differences between fly line quality vs. cost? What's the difference between a $99.00 floating line and a $25.00 floating line? Is there enough of a difference to justify the cost? Asking for a friend. Thanks
Not an expert, but I would say the line matters more than the rod. Now I wouldn't say that you need a 100 dollar line but step up to a Cortland 444 line, about 50 bucks and they are a very smooth line. You can't go wrong with that line and it won't break the bank
Kelly Galloup= the Chuck Norris of fly fishing
buck shot22 he reminds me of Woody Harelson
@@chillipphi good one
Fly line question. I am seeing more lines available but I am not finding Sink tip lines. Am I going to have to go back to adding a small lead core trolling line to get a sink tip? Also what are the new gram weight lines about?
Can you explain the double taper and two lines thing I feel like I am miss hearing you do you literally cut it in the center and just tie it to your backing stupid question but i am sure i am not the only one
Tyler, you can cut them in half and store one end on the line spool, or just spool the line on the reel and reverse it when one end wears out. most reels today are large arbor so the lines are not as likely to get as coiled up like the older style reels.
@@kellygalloup6073 thank you for clearing that up I figured that is what you ment but I just wanted to be sure before I go and cut new line lol I will be stoping in your shop when I make it down that way I am just over in bozeman
I've owned and loved one fly rod for the last 25 years, an Orvis Mid Flex 6.0, Graphite, 8', 6wt Trout model. I finally broke it just outside the warranty and nothing in the Orvis store felt the same, but a Superfine glass rod came close. After hearing you talk about the focus on casting distance, I know why. I was already waiting on an Orvis Superfine Touch Graphite 8'6", 5wt to arrive from Ebay and it did today. I'm a bit let down. I was hoping for that nice, slow graphite action I'm so used to, but this newer "5 wt." is almost 2x as thick as my old "6 wt." near the handle. Should I keep my old Orvis Wonderline Gen 3, 6 wt, weight forward line?
Might be a good idea, most rods today need to go up a full line to fish well. See you in the Mountains Sean, KG
Kelly, what about putting a 3wt line on a 2wt rod? On a slow rod like bamboo or fiberglass rods.
I'm agree with you point ! But salmon fishing in big rivers as like Tana and Alta in Norway my request long cast and for most sink 2 or 3 ! There is distance important. My home river Dalälven in Sweden we fish long line and most ledcore like 900grain deep water Express and you fish over depths of 20ft of water steep land sections no wading from there that's fishing for salmon and sea trout here in Scandinavia and were those lines come up from I cast 150ft of line when I'm use my 17ft rod class 13# and heavy tub flys . But grate point of dry fishing my most dry fish I get on 25-35ft line and I'm use DT6 old style Master line from England. Bjorn
All these special lines for bass, carp , bones, reds, etc is way over requirements. One can make slight mods to facilitate fly delivery for an individual in many cases. Keep in mind that many rods can cast 1 or 2 line weights over or under ratings depending on the caster and his or her needs. I have a fine 7wt rod that i perfer to cast a 9wt line
Just a question regarding the topic of distance and not needing to huck a bunch of line out to get into fish. Is this the same if you are stillwater/lake fishing for trout from shore? I ask because I see a lot of fish rising & jumping about 60-80 feet out and am not sure if they are just jumping about or actually feeding. Is this where you want a fast action rod able to get out far with ease? Your advise and feedback are always so helpful and I enjoy your videos to help better myself as an angler!
+Christopher Coleman , Thanks, I am glad you like them and I hope they help a little. As for the fast action rods getting you to the fish that are 60 to 80 out. Like I said in the video, very few people can cast 60 to 80 regardless of the rod. With back cast obstructions I would say almost nobody ,surely not me, so I don't think the rod will be much of a difference maker. From a practical fishing stand point I would say that if you can not reach the target with two or three false cast you should not even bother. Competition casting and fishing are two different beasts. If you ever get the chance to go see a competition you will see a lot of casts that pile up on themselves after too many false casts trying to get an extra 5 or 10 feet (and there is no fly on the leader, just yarn), which would be a disaster if they were fishing. In the fishing realm, the longer the line is in the air the more chance you have of fouling your leader up or plopping the fly where you did not intend it to go. I fish lakes a lot and with some of the best lake guys in the world. I seldom see any of them try to cast 60 feet, and if they/I (not to say I am one of the best, because I am not) try to, half the time the leader or fly is fouled or the intended target is missed. For me personally I concentrate on good, accurate casts under fifty feet and fish the water instead of flogging it. If you look back in time at casting competitions you will see that the new rods and lines have made very little difference in distance-- ten feet maybe? The only thing that can make a longer cast is a lot of practice and not a rod. In reality, even if we could get to the 80 foot mark they would suddenly be a 100 foot from us. That is just how fish are, always just ten feet further than we can get to. Hope that helps
Awesome! Thanks for the response! That makes a lot of sense. I guess it would be wiser to invest in a float tube to reach those fish teasing me out of reach then to throw sloppy casts that disturb the presentation! Thanks again!!!
+Christopher Coleman I prefer Kayak fishing. Travel far, travel fast, stand, sit... I've had trout constantly rising as close as 10' from my kayak at lakes, constantly. The difficult part with that is once you spot the rise, you paddle to it, cast at it.. but by that time the fish has moved on. So you must read the lake, recognize the fish swim patterns, and try to position yourself in front of where they will be. There is no time to cast out 60 feet in a Kayak, and usually that big FLOP of fly line that lands on the water surface just scares the fish in the whole 60' radius...
What would be the best line in your opinion on a echo ion xl rod in a 7wt model for bass.
First, thanks for another awesome video. Question on lines, do you prefer a full sinking or sinking tip on your streamer rigs on rivers? and not for issues of depth but action. do eather effect the action of your presentation for the better?
I prefer full sinks, however my lines are actually 30 foot heads but at that length I consider it a full sink. It is about carrying the fly and keeping it in the depth I decide. I am not a fan of tips for most streamer stuff. I can animate the fly about the same with either type of head. KG
I like your humor and your knowledge. I also, like the fact, that you ppoo poo lots of expensive gear.
Great info bro!! I'm new to the sport. I fish small streams in TN. My rod calls for 3wt, and I only fish with nymphs. I much prefer level taper line. Cortland precision sells a line that's .022. what weight of line is .022 equivalent too?
Thanks man. The level lines are fine for high sticking but they will not roll cast very well. Not sure if they are going to be better than the 3 wt.( which is not very heavy) would be but you probably are not casting very far so it may work. Those were designed in the great lakes in the 80's for mono replacement but we were using pretty heavy split shot to bounce bottom, it is where the term chuck in duck was invented .022 is a 1 wt. diameter.
Before I learned all the best methods for flyfishing, I bought an 8wt Loomis GL3 and went fishing for 7 weeks, making a loop all around British Columbia. After 7 weeks I could reliably cast 90ft with the Cortland 444 peach wf8. I still haven't got around to fishing big streamers, though I have bought many, but this will be my streamer rod. Anyway, I just developed the habit of judging a rod by how well it can keep the full head flying. Yes, I know I'll catch more fish by fishing close by, but I still see it as how to judge a rod. I just don't think a rod has to be made all that well to cast 7 to 10 yards, and for what you pay for fly rods they should be able to keep the whole head flying. Though I have come to understand that the lighter the rod/ln combo the more hand speed you are going to need. I do give my 4wt echo dry a pass on ever needing to keep the whole head flying, but it's always bothered me that my first rod, a 6wt, just can't come anywhere close to casting like that 8wt GL3 ?circa 1995.
Hey Kelly, great video, really enjoyed it. When you say rods got more faster, does that mean stiffer rod? Or does it mean the rod recover to straight faster?
You got it on both ends. Faster means stiffer and when you hear slow action rods they are much more flimsy in the hand. The "Faster" rods will recover to straight faster and the slower ones will recover a bit slower to straight.
I agree. I've been cutting my DT lines for years. Glad I'm not alone. Don't need all that extra line. Rarely have I had a trout get into backing.
Wish I had started listening to this years ago. I've wasted a lot of money on bad info.
Winston Im6 8 1/2 Two Piece, you can light a pipe waiting for the back cast to load. I've tried all the "New" fast rods and I always go back to my med. slow Winston.
That is a fine rod.
when I learned how to fly fish my reel came pre spooled with a wf line so I used it. i loved it for small poppers when bass fishing but not for trout. I came across this video and then bought a double taper line. wow!! I love the double taper! now I only use the weight forward line for big bass bugs and poppers.
Double tapers have a nicer running line too handle and that doesn't bird's nest as easily.
THANK YOU Mr. Galloup!! Winston has fallen victim to this idea. Their new Kairos is just way to dang stiff for short accurate casts. 35-45 feet great. Too bad I don't fish at those distances except maybe on still waters.