Good video! In my group, we found that calculating halves is the hard part. Instead, every units counts as full strength, and you can pay spice to double the value of a single unit. This only requires small adjustements: Fremen and Ixian are always double strength, and all leaders strength are doubled. Mathematically, this is equivalent so game balance is unaffected, but it feels more natural to calculate forces with whole numbers instead of fractions.
Yes! This is what we do! Though… I never thought about the Leaders. Huh. But it does make sense. Hm. Wow. Yeah I guess that really does make sense! But it is more math. Wonder how much it throws things off to not double up the Leaders. I guess low power Leaders become kind of garbage… literally worse than a regular soldier because they can’t be spiced up. XD
Leaving leaders the same makes the game more focused on money and doomstacking, reducing the value of weapons and such stuff. Who cares about leaders and killing them, if all you need a bunch of more spiceheads? 😅@@uathomas922
@@uathomas922leaving leaders the same makes the game more about doomstacking and money, reducing the value of treachery deck. Who cares about weapons, if you just need 3 more spiceheads and 3 more spice to have the same effect as str6 leader? 😅
Thanks, Jack. Our group could have used this video a couple weeks ago when we tackled the Advanced combat rules for the first time. The hardest part for us was determining how to calculate losses after the combat was resolved when a winning player had options for breaking down their losses. For example: The Emperor player with a stack of 8 regulars and 2 Sardaukar in Arrakeen wins a battle by dialing a strength of 5 and paying 2 spice. That 5 force/2 spice combo can be paid several ways among the 10 Imperial units in that territory. We got tripped up computing where, and how, those 2 spice can get spent to get to that strength of "5"... On both Sardaukar? On one Sardaukar and one regular force? Two of the regulars? And it was counterintuitive to consider some of your forces as "uncommitted" to the battle when computing the force value; and yet, if you win, you can change your mind and choose to kill off those same uncommitted forces as long as the spice math works out. Ugh!
It’s true, the Emperor has options after a battle- just has to spend the committed spice and send the dialed strength in forces to the Tanks. It’s actually pretty handy for that faction.
This is really interesting. Our group have had four or so games under our belt now, we play advanced rules without advanced combat. Funnily enough we find the fremen OP (they always win in an alliance) and that’s why we don’t use spice to pay for combat. Are we just a little too novice to realise the innate strengths of the other factions (it doesn’t feel that way) or are we getting a key aspect of the game/ tactics wrong. Probably throwing too many forces into combat. Or mistaking collecting the spice fall? Side point we had the best gaming session we’ve had in a long time yesterday.
My group have played around 30 times now and we’ve found spice dialling benefits only the rich players, fremen have always succeeded because of their freedom to drop and very high revival rate.
An alternate method of calculating combat value that I teach to new players (that are often adverse to wanting to deal with fractions) is: Dial troops at a 1:1 ratio, add spice in hand up to dialed troops then add double leader value. The only oddity is STAR'd troops. When you spend spice on a STAR'd troop you get to add a Star token to spice in hand. Star tokens are just appropriately colored star beads for Fremen, Ix, and Emporer. New players like the simplicity of doubling your leader and then just adding everything up. Sure the # can get quite large but the ratio is exactly the same. No rule change, just a different method of getting the same result.
When you are figuring out how forces you lose after winning a battle while using the spice to pay for full strength, can you lose forces of your choice as long as it adds up to ur force strength? Or, do you have to lose the specific forces you paid for? for example if i have a star force and 2 normal forces in a territory and dial a strength of 1 then when i win can i choose to lose either my star force or 2 normal forces? as long as i'm losing the same strength of forces?
We do the same, but with 3 more changes: (1) Fremen draw 3 treachery cards during setup and keep 1. (2) Fremen to use worthless cards as Cheap Heroes. (3) Odd rounds have 1 Spice Blow. Even rounds have 2 Spice Blows. (4) We have a fan-made Kanly Duel expansion.
@@Abe_1861 Thankyou for sharing this. I am unfamiliar with the Kanly Duel expansion (will look it up) but the others sound like solid ideas to help the Fremen get started.
@@peterstedman6140 With you on that. We find Advanced Combat a lot of extra steps, and extra downtime, for very little gain (in an already long and mentally invested boardgame).
Wouldnt it be better to dial the amount of forces you want to commit. Then add the spice you want to commit and then just divide it by two to get the dial number you need? With the emperor it would be a bit more complicatef since I guess you would need to «double» the strenght from the spice you are adding to sardukar.
Good video! In my group, we found that calculating halves is the hard part. Instead, every units counts as full strength, and you can pay spice to double the value of a single unit. This only requires small adjustements: Fremen and Ixian are always double strength, and all leaders strength are doubled.
Mathematically, this is equivalent so game balance is unaffected, but it feels more natural to calculate forces with whole numbers instead of fractions.
Only Suboids should count at full strength, cyborgs should be (in your example) base 2 + 1 spice = 4 strength.
And Suboids should always count 1 (their full strength when values are doubled)
Yes! This is what we do!
Though… I never thought about the Leaders. Huh.
But it does make sense. Hm. Wow. Yeah I guess that really does make sense! But it is more math. Wonder how much it throws things off to not double up the Leaders.
I guess low power Leaders become kind of garbage… literally worse than a regular soldier because they can’t be spiced up. XD
Leaving leaders the same makes the game more focused on money and doomstacking, reducing the value of weapons and such stuff. Who cares about leaders and killing them, if all you need a bunch of more spiceheads? 😅@@uathomas922
@@uathomas922leaving leaders the same makes the game more about doomstacking and money, reducing the value of treachery deck. Who cares about weapons, if you just need 3 more spiceheads and 3 more spice to have the same effect as str6 leader? 😅
CLICK CLICK BOOM! Great explanation. Thank you.
Thanks, Jack. Our group could have used this video a couple weeks ago when we tackled the Advanced combat rules for the first time. The hardest part for us was determining how to calculate losses after the combat was resolved when a winning player had options for breaking down their losses. For example: The Emperor player with a stack of 8 regulars and 2 Sardaukar in Arrakeen wins a battle by dialing a strength of 5 and paying 2 spice. That 5 force/2 spice combo can be paid several ways among the 10 Imperial units in that territory. We got tripped up computing where, and how, those 2 spice can get spent to get to that strength of "5"... On both Sardaukar? On one Sardaukar and one regular force? Two of the regulars? And it was counterintuitive to consider some of your forces as "uncommitted" to the battle when computing the force value; and yet, if you win, you can change your mind and choose to kill off those same uncommitted forces as long as the spice math works out. Ugh!
It’s true, the Emperor has options after a battle- just has to spend the committed spice and send the dialed strength in forces to the Tanks. It’s actually pretty handy for that faction.
This is really interesting. Our group have had four or so games under our belt now, we play advanced rules without advanced combat. Funnily enough we find the fremen OP (they always win in an alliance) and that’s why we don’t use spice to pay for combat. Are we just a little too novice to realise the innate strengths of the other factions (it doesn’t feel that way) or are we getting a key aspect of the game/ tactics wrong.
Probably throwing too many forces into combat. Or mistaking collecting the spice fall?
Side point we had the best gaming session we’ve had in a long time yesterday.
Keep doing what you’re doing if it’s fun. But keep on exploring and experimenting.
My group have played around 30 times now and we’ve found spice dialling benefits only the rich players, fremen have always succeeded because of their freedom to drop and very high revival rate.
An alternate method of calculating combat value that I teach to new players (that are often adverse to wanting to deal with fractions) is: Dial troops at a 1:1 ratio, add spice in hand up to dialed troops then add double leader value. The only oddity is STAR'd troops. When you spend spice on a STAR'd troop you get to add a Star token to spice in hand. Star tokens are just appropriately colored star beads for Fremen, Ix, and Emporer. New players like the simplicity of doubling your leader and then just adding everything up. Sure the # can get quite large but the ratio is exactly the same. No rule change, just a different method of getting the same result.
The battle wheel only goes up to 20 though, how do you deal with someone committing over 10 power?
@@tehepicator968 You hold your spice in hand... Dial troops and hold spice in hand when revealing battle plans, add the 2 numbers together.
When you are figuring out how forces you lose after winning a battle while using the spice to pay for full strength, can you lose forces of your choice as long as it adds up to ur force strength? Or, do you have to lose the specific forces you paid for? for example if i have a star force and 2 normal forces in a territory and dial a strength of 1 then when i win can i choose to lose either my star force or 2 normal forces? as long as i'm losing the same strength of forces?
I love advanced DUNE! I often leave out advanced combat though 🤫
Without advanced combat the fremen are less viable, but I get why people don't use it
We do the same, but with 3 more changes:
(1) Fremen draw 3 treachery cards during setup and keep 1.
(2) Fremen to use worthless cards as Cheap Heroes.
(3) Odd rounds have 1 Spice Blow. Even rounds have 2 Spice Blows.
(4) We have a fan-made Kanly Duel expansion.
@@Abe_1861 Thankyou for sharing this. I am unfamiliar with the Kanly Duel expansion (will look it up) but the others sound like solid ideas to help the Fremen get started.
@@peterstedman6140 With you on that. We find Advanced Combat a lot of extra steps, and extra downtime, for very little gain (in an already long and mentally invested boardgame).
Wouldnt it be better to dial the amount of forces you want to commit. Then add the spice you want to commit and then just divide it by two to get the dial number you need? With the emperor it would be a bit more complicatef since I guess you would need to «double» the strenght from the spice you are adding to sardukar.