That’s my feeling about this movie in the first place. While I had mixed feelings about the first one, I had to acknowledge its artistry and its one of a kind nature. Making a sequel, for me (not saying for anyone else or objectively), just at best, is beside the point. And at worst, it ruins what was lightening in a bottle.
Most sequels aren’t needed lol this was the case of them actively not wanting to make & not having a story for a sequel before the studio was trying to green light one
Todd literally said during the making of Joker, that he was one and done, like a good one-shot comic. People loved it, studio made bank, so they pressure/forced him to make another. He probably thought, "Well, I had a clear vision for a complete story, which I did... Hmm... Let's just throw shit together, add some good shots and a little talking.... Oh! Let's make it so they can't ask me to do another one, just kill him, call it artistic vision".
If these movies were not tied to the comic book villain "Joker", nobody would have had these comic book expectations of what they would want to see from the characters. If we took the comic book expectations out, and looked at this movie as just a film, there is stuff to appreciate. I understand though, I was very shocked that the film was a psychological identity crisis redemption arc story. I'm sure nobody expected it. But looking past that and what my expectations were, it is a good story and a good movie. Not the one that I wanted though, as I'm sure everyone else can agree.
@martink 461 Yah. The judge realistically followed courtroom protocol, but then allowed Arthur Fleck to smoke in the courtroom. Speaking of which, this movie is supposed to be set in the 1960s, which is also born out by the Roxie showing Roger Corman's 1959 movie 'A Bucket of Blood', but the judge refers to the precedent of Jensen vs the Superior Court, which in our world at least, was a judgment that occurred in 1984.
@@nancykerriganI'm fairly certain that the director or the producer publicly said that it was set in the 1980s. It would also depend upon in what year the Zorro movie was released that the young Bruce Wayne was watching in the first movie, although maybe things that happened in our real world happened in different years to us in the timeline of Joker's world. Although a cinema marquee shows that Roger Corman's film 'A Bucket of Blood' was showing, which in our world was made in 1959. But maybe they were just showing a retrospective of old classic movies.
This and “Megalopolis” are airplane movies. If I was on a long flight, and the in-flight entertainment happens to offer both movies, then I would consider watching these films.
@@fireinthesky2333 to catch up to what, a weak philosophy that offers no solutions and would have been the order of the day in weimar germany? yeah, not really.
@@monicad99 The film is cartoonish and fragmented because it's a mirror reflecting the sheer banality and frivolousness of our decaying empire back at itself. It's not a "leftist" film despite itself. Don't be silly.
@@fireinthesky2333 what empire? if u’re talking about rome, the plot has barely anything to do with the catilinarian conspiracy. he forced that story into a simplistic one with archetypal characters, which unfortunately, despite the name of achetypal, lack gravitase. if u’re talking about the decaying america, it’s still not close enough. this mirror hasn’t been cleaned in a while. if that’s what it primarily wants to be.
I think it’s brilliant. While we'll always have the classic heroes and villains movies, something like this not so often. It truly gives us a glimpse into the mind of someone like “the Joker”.
I agree, I think a lot of people a upset that the movie doesn't live up to their comic book idea of Joker and Harlequin while forgetting that this is set in a different universe. I also thought the movie was awesome and a good conclusion to the story. I think Arthur is very much a creative and I felt like through the musical sequences we stepped into his inner world.
I think the ending will split a lot of the audience. I loved the darker musical pieces and show pieces. Gaga did well, Gleeson was great. The Joker wasn't supposed to be a great singer. But I liked it.
I loved this movie. It’s a Foucaultian masterpiece. Loved your review too James. People may not like it now, but I’m guessing over time they will come to learn and admire what this movie is saying.
I would have liked to see a Batman from this universe, late 70s technology and materials. Less busy design, more grounded in his physical ability. I've seen some AI pictures of this idea that look great.
Just came out of the Theater....and i have to say...i liked it! Definetly not what i Expected but actually vety deep when u read between the lines. The Movie touched me...and i think the core of the Joker...the Virus of Chaos etc. How he was born actually from Masses was great. But this Movie is Definetly not for everyone for sure.
Joker should've been the catalyst for a shared universe of Batman's rogue gallery considering how successful it was. Imagine Arthur interacting with Two-Face, Riddler, Penguin, Scarecrow, Hugo Strange etc. in Arkham Asylum. This could've been like the Universal Monsters where there villains/tragic characters and the movies are crime thrillers/film noirs mixed with elements of psychological and body horror. Such a missed opportunity.
Matt Reeves is pretty much developing on that with his Batman cinematic universe. With the success of the premiere of The Penguin, we could be getting more spin-offs of Batman’s rogues gallery.
This was never ever meant to have Batman in it and we have gotten that and will get that w DCU’s and Reeves. No one should’ve had any hopes for it. And they said it from beginning and first one made a billion. Without it. I can’t see this one fighting him. He’s more sympathetic. He felt like Joker but didn’t feel like Joker so it makes sense he’s proto Joker. And the inmate cuts a smile at end too? If he’s known actor what if he becomes Gunn’s DCU Joker
It was easily the best movie of the year. One has to watch it with their brain switched on, though, this is not some Joel Schumacher flick - as wasn‘t the first movie.
@@DredaybayIt wasn‘t, it was superb. But it wasn‘t some comic action movie. I can understand why people who expect a colorful comic book movie would have been irritated by the first Joker film, but the second one just continued the idea and brought it to its (painful) conclusion, so, hardly a surprise. It‘s a drama, just like the first one.
I read some threads relating to the plot twist and I have to say, I like it. But execution wise, there is where it matters. For me, I hold the final verdict whether I like it or not. Few UA-cam channels and influencers I will agree with their takes, this is one of those few channels where I trust the review because even on the few occasions I do not agree, I appreciate the take because your channel is someone who knows, appreciates the lore and does a good takedown of every bit of movie, show, comic and pop culture medium. I am not a big fan of musicals but I am willing to give this a try and see how it goes.
I guess I'm in the minority because I didn't like the first Joker movie. The acting was terrific, but I didn't like the movie itself for various reasons (that I basically forget! lol) So, I have no interest in seeing this, especially since I'm one of those people you mentioned that doesn't like musicals. Although IMAX seems to be the optimal viewing experience for it, I'll probably wait for streaming on Max. It will be interesting to see how this one does financially. I have no prediction, but I have a *feeling* that it won't be the success the first one was.
Are musicals a tough sell? Wicked is probably going to be huge hit. Greatest Showman was a surprise hit. Mamma Mia made $400 mil. La La Land. Elvis and Rocketman were all very successful. So I think audience do still like musicals when the music and story work well together.
@@Y.d.o.b.o.n Joker: Folie à Deux” filmmaker Todd Phillips is backpedaling on whether or not the supervillain sequel is a musical, admitting in a “Fresh Air” interview Monday that it is, in fact, “the very definition of a musical.
Glad you enjoyed it! Same here, my expectations were low. And I really dug the ending. Very poetic. I also liked how kinda meta it was with his fanatics reacting to him rejecting the joker persona. Very much like the real life fans😏 out the theater I gave it a 7.9, but sleeping on it yeah it has its issues but I still think it’s a strong 7.7/10 oh and I hate musicals and most of those moments worked for me.
I'm down for musicals in theory and was actually looking forward to this more than the first when it was announced, but the idea of doing a radical genre shift only for it to be into a jukebox musical rather than focusing on original songwriting to fit said change really is the most Todd Phillips thing imaginable. Going from "covering" better Scorsese films you've already seen before to actually just covering Broadway classics you've heard before is certainly something. Generally like Gaga and Phoenix is one of my favorite actors of all time, but I doubt I'll jump on this before it's streaming seeing as how a lack of originality seems to be the entire MO with these.
Honestly I enjoyed Megalopolis more than JOKER: Folie á Deux, I thought this film was boring, I hated the songs, I was going to walk out at one point, Megalopolis at least had me intrigued right to the end, even though it was a bit all over place, I still enjoyed that film more, Shia LaBeouf was a JOKER like character in Megalopolis.!
I’m ignoring all comments until I see the movie Saturday at 12:45pm at my local AMC cinema and I am excited for it, in fact to me it kind of gave away that it was going to be a musical when, I saw that Lady Gaga of all people was going to be playing Harley Quinn I mean, come on, if you don’t think it’s going to be a musical based on that simple casting choice alone, there’s a problem in my opinion.
I never understood what people saw in the first film. It was a mash-up of Tai Driver & The King Of Comedy with a guy in clown make-up. Just my opinion...but being a huge fan of DC characters, I never saw the need for the original, much less the sequel.
If Joker had been taken into custody, the logical sequel would've been organizing and accomplishing the breakout out of Arkham, and the hellish mayhem to follow (Cesar Romero style).
A little off-topic comment; but you bringing up walk the line, and Phoenix being poor at recreating the great Johnny Cash tunes, that’s one of the things I think James Mangold is looking to get right this time around in A Complete Unknown, Chalamet looks like he nailed the Bob Dylan vocals, I’m looking forward to that one.
Gotta Disagree with you on this one! I Liked it. Yeah, it has plot issues, and not as good as the first, but I thought it was pretty good and quite entertaining. It's "One flew over the Cucokoo Nest" + "All that Jazz" with a dash "Looking for Mister Goodbar" (The abrupt ending)
Lady Gaga was the BEST part of this movie. The musical elements did not fully work but my god when she sings and in tge screen she steals the show! What a shame that they did not fully utilized her!
Joker: Folie a Deux is baffling, bizarre and I kind of loved it? What a complete troll of a movie and one that is actively trying to get you to hate it and piss you off. I mean this in the best possible way.
I still have to learn about an actual case of a serial killer or murderer that has a “legion” of fans as Hollywood insists it happens - not even Charles Manson
It was such a mixed bag...there were aspects of the movie i did like, although I walked in kind of knowing what to expect from early, nonspoiler reviews. It should have cut atleast 30 mins off the run time, and i was not a fan of the ending. Feels like Phillips knows this will be divisive and that the end will upset alot of die hard DC/Batman fans
This movie felt in some ways like it was channeling both Sidney Lumet films and Bob Fosse classics. And I absolutely loved it. How great it is for a mainstream director to use his clout and influence to make a movie like this. We don’t we it enough so I’m applauding it. Great to see subversive films being made with that New Hollywood sensibility. The first one was very obviously indebted to King of Comedy and Taxi Driver. This one feels less like Lumet and Fosse co-directed a weird movie about a mentally ill killer in clown makeup. It worked for me big time.
Still not seen the first one all the way through💚🇬🇧🌱 tried the latest batman last night & couldn't sit through that either, can't see this making my play list any time soon...
Something tells me if marvel attempted a movie like this you would have hated it. Seems the trend I’ve seen is if you are a hater of recent marvel, you like this movie. I’ll see if I find any more of those trends. So odd to me.
I love recent Marvel, and I absolutely loved this one. 🤷 I can watch over the top comic action movies just as much as dirty drama musicals that dip its toe into arthouse. I find it more irritating that many people are so stuck in their taste for genres that they apparently just want to watch the same movie over and over again.
I don’t care or need to see Batman in this movie as you say, it’s a take on the character. But to do a story like this wrapped in comic book knowing you’ll attract that kind of audience who treat theatres like sports games is a bad move and they are loud in their rage so this won’t go well word of mouth wise. That ending sounds interesting but then I feel I’ve wasted time from the first one and then this when I see it. To know it’s all just for a twist of HE WASNT THE ACTUAL JOKERRRRR BUT INSPIRED THE REALLLL no thanks
No. He inspired the idea of Joker. Joker is not a single person in this universe, it is an idea that was created by Arthur Fleck and continues to live through other people. The animation at the beginning tells it all.
I don't think if Todd Phillips made a film like Old School or The Hangover today, They would be hits. Even a series like entourage which was a huge hit for HBO, ..... people aren't fascinated with that frat boy, party ...wolf of wall street type debauchery anymore. Well depending....so Todd Phillips hands down one of my favourite film makers. But, look at the guy who directed anchorman and the other guys....he moved on to more serious content as well. The world....just isn't in the same place it was 14 years ago.... With all this p Diddy stuff coming out....
There’s no going back to comedy for Todd Phillips. He outgrew it, or changed and doesn’t desire it anymore; or else he’d still be doing it. I don’t think blaming a humorless society is the answer. If someone feels funny they’ll crack a joke with no one else around. No…anyone mired in the King of Comedy, to the point of imitation in two movies, isn’t interested in genuine, healthy lafter.
(SPOILERS) I just saw the movie yesterday and I loved it. Although it is a musical, it doesn't FEEL like a musical much akin to how the first movie doesn't feel like a ballet performance. The musical performance scenes do so well in the movie context to symbolize Arthur going off meds and slowly drifting into madness. Arthur Fleck could never be a "Hannibal" or anything like that. He could never be THE Joker that we know and love, and that actually makes both these movies so much more tragic. All the way throughout both these movies, the audience is hoping for a moment where Arthur can shine. A moment where he finally tells a "Joker esque" funny sadistic joke, or a moment where we realize that he actually has some type of hidden agenda, manipulating the shrink at Arkham in the first movie, or maybe ending up mounting a revolution teased there. But no, Arthur never gets one single moment like that, save for in his own head. In my opinion that is a masterful move. Arthur Fleck is in the end nothing more than a broken man, finding refuge in his shadow. The ending of this movie was in my opinion a real stroke of genius, and no matter how much I wanted to see Joaquin step into the real Jokers shoes, that was never the point. And I realized that by the last quarter of this movie. Seeing the real joker cutting into Arthurs stomach whilst maniacally laughing was the best ending I could have imagined. The shock and impact of that moment was something entirely different, but it makes so much sense for Arthurs character arc. Arthur never did anything on purpose, he only acted on emotions or trauma response. But he did create a symbol. That symbol being more than a man and something which will live on and come back to haunt Gotham once again at a later time after having died within Arthur himself. A point I want to make here to end my rant is that Arthur is the exact opposite of what Joker is supposed to be. Arthur is not manipulative, cunning or even intelligent enough to become what the Joker is supposed to be, even with the help of his adapted persona. The insistense these movies ultimately made about The Joker being an idea rather than a man is so perfect to the "character". Arthur never did anything on purpose, only wanted to see the world burn, and that is exactly what he accomplished by CREATING The Joker. That's it for my rant, it honestly seems like everyone just buys into the idea of this movie being horrible without giving it a real chance which is really sad.
an artist tries to challenge the audience and may fail, but a critic only reinforces popular opinion- youtube has grown into a fascinating hivemind, its baffling that there arent more people disturbed by the fact, that videos are routinely titled i watched x, so you dont have to, critical thinking itself can be an artform, if it leaves room, for discourse, but that just became another buzz word. im sure many have read the oscar wilde quote, that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but the highest form of intelligence- i think its wild, that even the overused sarcasm of most content creators, that serves to portray your youtube persona as more likeable, is slowly being replaced, by inserting more memes, which amounts to creative regurgitation. regarding just folie a deux, its a film i respect and appreciate, because its hard to love- theres a lot of missed opportunities, a particularly bizarre decision, to include prison rape, it even shows glimpses, of what a more fan pleasing film couldve been (id argue that the cover of anthony newleys the joker includes more true to comics imagery, than all of the first movie). it certainly made me ponder the road not taken, arthur couldve had the girl, the admiration of the crowd....yet he finally dropped the act. theres more than one message in this flick and even if it was a cynical cash grab, which i certainly dont see in the movie itself, my main takeaway was how genuienly uncomfortable it felt- the slightly off key singing, that grinds the movies momentum, to a halt of blackness- what makes the musical genre especially so unpopular with a modern audiences, is that its vulnerable, honest sentiment, naked, the antithesis to a quip-filled cameo fest, like deadpool vs wolverine. i strongly feel, that this film, even if the storys not being played out in present time, says a fair bit, about how the world has changed, in the last 5 years, since the first one dropped. it wasnt love at first sight, but after pondering it for a bit, i feel, this eclipses the first movie, not story wise, not in political discourse, or even about, what was real and what it all meant, but sheer emotional impact wise. i get some of the backlash and theres talking points obviously include no critical thinking whatsoever (how many times has ledgers joker been brought up?), but in the end, i cared about arthur, more so than the joker and thats why i felt the sudden urge, to leave this post, from a nobody- if nothing else, its an honest opinion, for what i felt to be an honest movie
@fabianhammer2864 Really appreciated this response! After all this is exactly what movies should be about. Creating food for thought and creating dialogue about what it all meant. Not dimwittedly jumping on bandwagons of hate or complete adoration for something based on public reception. After all these "echochambers" only exist on the Internet. People really need to take a minute to make up their own minds before subscribing to someone else's opinions.
@@nicolaiaubert4127 likewise, regarding your response, its also appreciated, although im not sure, if your point about the internet isnt slowly bleeding into real life- maybe ive just been online too much, now that its getting colder. either way, wishin you a good one!
Is a shame for me because I wanted a Joker 2 so badly but I'm not watching this at the theater. I really dislike musicals in general, probably will stream it when it comes out
As usual, I'm here for an honest review not predetermined by American culture wars BS. You also have the advantage of not being a grouchy so and so who hates anything kind. So thanks for that, and for this review. Nothing I've heard so far even mentioned it's a musical (I'm not a fan of musicals but you just made a great point about their potential power), it's all been anti "woke" men children whining about why they think it is what it is. I didn't watch 1 , and definitely wasn't going to watch this, but you've actually made a case - and literally on all of UA-cam you're one of only two people who have done that. Bravo for your craft, and thank you.
I feel sorry for all the bros who didn’t get in the first movie that Arthur isn’t the joker, and that he’s just a poor troubled soul who has delusions as a coping mechanism. It was made abundantly clear. This is exactly the same Arthur and corrupt Gotham as the first Joker.
There’s nothing more pretentious than the use of français to merely say Joker 2. Having said that, I’m pleasantly surprised you enjoyed it, James. I expected this film to slowly dissolve to 2 individuals strung out on ketamine and horse tranquilizer while receiving ECT shock treatments on a psychiatric forensic unit. Yet, there is an actual story?!? Shocked. Penguin is amazing because it’s a distorted version of the Sopranos. It doesn’t overstep its boundaries.
Just seen it and totally agree with your sentiment: it’s a Joker movie! Huge disappointment. But clues of his poor mental health and limitations hinted at in the first film. The story was more fixed on your point about fantasy and entertainment being a fleeting experience in reality.
Ok you,ve brought my interest back. I was quite "meh" about this one because it's all about Arthur Fleck to me and I felt they might have dimmed him to make Gaga shine. But you said their chemistry is good, so yay bring it on. I don;t mind musical numbers if it gives goosebumps which you said it did too. Looking forward to it. Aw man I was so eager to watch this whole video but I'm gonna avoid spoilers. You rock dude!!
Absolute masterpiece. It is easily the best movie this year. It is - surprise! - not some brainless popcorn movie, and seeing how the first one did his own take on the Batman universe, I find it rather baffling how anyone can be surprised the second one continues to do so. And in a very clever, very tragic and painful way. Funny also, how the „Looney Tunes“ cartoon at the beginning basically gave us the whole plot ahead.
I disagree this film wasn’t necessary or entertaining Just a Cynical Retread that was made to Troll Fans And it’s most egregious crime is it’s boring Let’s not pretend this was High Art
Todd Phillips isn't great at this sequel thing I may have to pass ** edit** Just got back from seeing a screening at Showcase (it was free and the Wife wanted to go ) I have to be brutally honest this Film is Terrible The Worst Film I’ve seen this year It was Boring the courtroom stuff dragged on and on The Musical Interludes put the brakes on mild momentum it had Is there Talent on Screen ? Sure but to what end And the Ending undermines the First Joker What a Freaking Disaster I got to go for free and still felt cheated I take back everything I said about Megalopolis at least it had ambitions This was a Cynical Retread of Part One ☝️ I never need to watch again !!
Great 👍🏻 video & review as always! Looking forward to watching this & making up my mind about it. Hoping I love it as much as I am LOVING Penguin right now. Also hoping we can get your full opinion on Penguin perhaps when the season is over. Keep it up! 👍🏻.
"I know you're not supposed to say that people look cool smoking....but they do" 😂😂😂😂😂my man James.
What ? I’m smoking two packs of smokes in my bed this morning, definitely cool.
Definitely smoked a doobie before and after this film lol
Smoking looks stank
@@Ddofc it kinda looks cool when you puff and then exhale and say something cool like “hey baby, wanna puff of my cig?”
This is what happens when a sequel is made that wasn't needed
That’s my feeling about this movie in the first place. While I had mixed feelings about the first one, I had to acknowledge its artistry and its one of a kind nature. Making a sequel, for me (not saying for anyone else or objectively), just at best, is beside the point. And at worst, it ruins what was lightening in a bottle.
Most sequels aren’t needed lol this was the case of them actively not wanting to make & not having a story for a sequel before the studio was trying to green light one
Todd literally said during the making of Joker, that he was one and done, like a good one-shot comic. People loved it, studio made bank, so they pressure/forced him to make another. He probably thought, "Well, I had a clear vision for a complete story, which I did... Hmm... Let's just throw shit together, add some good shots and a little talking.... Oh! Let's make it so they can't ask me to do another one, just kill him, call it artistic vision".
If these movies were not tied to the comic book villain "Joker", nobody would have had these comic book expectations of what they would want to see from the characters. If we took the comic book expectations out, and looked at this movie as just a film, there is stuff to appreciate. I understand though, I was very shocked that the film was a psychological identity crisis redemption arc story. I'm sure nobody expected it. But looking past that and what my expectations were, it is a good story and a good movie. Not the one that I wanted though, as I'm sure everyone else can agree.
Smoking is just so cinematic. It just is.
@martink 461 Yah. The judge realistically followed courtroom protocol, but then allowed Arthur Fleck to smoke in the courtroom. Speaking of which, this movie is supposed to be set in the 1960s, which is also born out by the Roxie showing Roger Corman's 1959 movie 'A Bucket of Blood', but the judge refers to the precedent of Jensen vs the Superior Court, which in our world at least, was a judgment that occurred in 1984.
@@owenorders5202I always thought the movie was set in the 70s.
@@nancykerriganI'm fairly certain that the director or the producer publicly said that it was set in the 1980s. It would also depend upon in what year the Zorro movie was released that the young Bruce Wayne was watching in the first movie, although maybe things that happened in our real world happened in different years to us in the timeline of Joker's world. Although a cinema marquee shows that Roger Corman's film 'A Bucket of Blood' was showing, which in our world was made in 1959. But maybe they were just showing a retrospective of old classic movies.
The overuse of smoking is so annoying. Half the movie is slowly smoking for filler.
This and “Megalopolis” are airplane movies. If I was on a long flight, and the in-flight entertainment happens to offer both movies, then I would consider watching these films.
Megalopolis is a masterpiece, it'll take a decade for the public to catch up.
@@fireinthesky2333nah lol when you try to make a movie for 40 years and everyone tells you no maybe you should listen lol what a mess
@@fireinthesky2333 to catch up to what, a weak philosophy that offers no solutions and would have been the order of the day in weimar germany? yeah, not really.
@@monicad99 The film is cartoonish and fragmented because it's a mirror reflecting the sheer banality and frivolousness of our decaying empire back at itself. It's not a "leftist" film despite itself. Don't be silly.
@@fireinthesky2333 what empire? if u’re talking about rome, the plot has barely anything to do with the catilinarian conspiracy. he forced that story into a simplistic one with archetypal characters, which unfortunately, despite the name of achetypal, lack gravitase. if u’re talking about the decaying america, it’s still not close enough. this mirror hasn’t been cleaned in a while. if that’s what it primarily wants to be.
I think it’s brilliant. While we'll always have the classic heroes and villains movies, something like this not so often. It truly gives us a glimpse into the mind of someone like “the Joker”.
I agree, I think a lot of people a upset that the movie doesn't live up to their comic book idea of Joker and Harlequin while forgetting that this is set in a different universe. I also thought the movie was awesome and a good conclusion to the story. I think Arthur is very much a creative and I felt like through the musical sequences we stepped into his inner world.
@@Helena-vg2iiIm not upset. It was just boring and unsatisfying. Didn’t add anything to his character or give me anything interesting to think about.
I think the ending will split a lot of the audience. I loved the darker musical pieces and show pieces. Gaga did well, Gleeson was great. The Joker wasn't supposed to be a great singer. But I liked it.
I won’t bother with this one.
Idiotic thought before even watching the movie
I loved this movie. It’s a Foucaultian masterpiece. Loved your review too James. People may not like it now, but I’m guessing over time they will come to learn and admire what this movie is saying.
What did it say
Yeah I’m going to give this a miss
Lady Gaga is an excellent actresss, she was excellent in American Horror story hotel
Yep also Star Is Born.
It's an actor. Can't stand Gaga. No interest in watching that demonic creature on a screen.
She gives great helmet
she is the very reason i will not be watching this movie
@@Amanredpill Yeah, well, your username would make that obvious. #weakman
I would have liked to see a Batman from this universe, late 70s technology and materials. Less busy design, more grounded in his physical ability. I've seen some AI pictures of this idea that look great.
Going to watch it tomorrow here in India as it's a national holiday..Saw Devara1 this weekend now Joker2 ..both decent movies back to back.
Don’t waste your time
Just came out of the Theater....and i have to say...i liked it! Definetly not what i Expected but actually vety deep when u read between the lines. The Movie touched me...and i think the core of the Joker...the Virus of Chaos etc. How he was born actually from Masses was great. But this Movie is Definetly not for everyone for sure.
It’s no Breakin’ 2 Electric Boogaloo
We finally found out how he got those scars 🤡
How we get A another two face? That's what I want to know.
In the comics, there are many jokers. That's why they have different origin stories
Joker should've been the catalyst for a shared universe of Batman's rogue gallery considering how successful it was. Imagine Arthur interacting with Two-Face, Riddler, Penguin, Scarecrow, Hugo Strange etc. in Arkham Asylum. This could've been like the Universal Monsters where there villains/tragic characters and the movies are crime thrillers/film noirs mixed with elements of psychological and body horror. Such a missed opportunity.
Matt Reeves is pretty much developing on that with his Batman cinematic universe. With the success of the premiere of The Penguin, we could be getting more spin-offs of Batman’s rogues gallery.
Completely disagree. Not every comic book movie needs to become a shared universe. so tired of every movie becoming a shared universe
"Joker" is a mantle
Skipping this one.
ok
Great idea.
I saw it in Korea opening night.
Massive disappointment
@@zachcouch8654 I just saw Megalopolis today. Worst movie I've seen in awhile.
This was never ever meant to have Batman in it and we have gotten that and will get that w DCU’s and Reeves. No one should’ve had any hopes for it. And they said it from beginning and first one made a billion. Without it. I can’t see this one fighting him. He’s more sympathetic. He felt like Joker but didn’t feel like Joker so it makes sense he’s proto Joker.
And the inmate cuts a smile at end too? If he’s known actor what if he becomes Gunn’s DCU Joker
This movie sucked ass. I’ve never hated a movie so much.
Why was it so bad
@@Dredaybay an unnecessary sequel. Movie starts getting momentum and then breaks out into a musical number almost every 15 minutes or so.
Agreed...Made me angry! Over 2 hours of complete horse sh*t!
It was easily the best movie of the year. One has to watch it with their brain switched on, though, this is not some Joel Schumacher flick - as wasn‘t the first movie.
@@DredaybayIt wasn‘t, it was superb. But it wasn‘t some comic action movie. I can understand why people who expect a colorful comic book movie would have been irritated by the first Joker film, but the second one just continued the idea and brought it to its (painful) conclusion, so, hardly a surprise. It‘s a drama, just like the first one.
I read some threads relating to the plot twist and I have to say, I like it. But execution wise, there is where it matters. For me, I hold the final verdict whether I like it or not. Few UA-cam channels and influencers I will agree with their takes, this is one of those few channels where I trust the review because even on the few occasions I do not agree, I appreciate the take because your channel is someone who knows, appreciates the lore and does a good takedown of every bit of movie, show, comic and pop culture medium.
I am not a big fan of musicals but I am willing to give this a try and see how it goes.
I guess I'm in the minority because I didn't like the first Joker movie. The acting was terrific, but I didn't like the movie itself for various reasons (that I basically forget! lol) So, I have no interest in seeing this, especially since I'm one of those people you mentioned that doesn't like musicals. Although IMAX seems to be the optimal viewing experience for it, I'll probably wait for streaming on Max. It will be interesting to see how this one does financially. I have no prediction, but I have a *feeling* that it won't be the success the first one was.
Awesome review.
I always go back to your spoiler section after i see the film
Love your work!
Keep geekin out!!
Are musicals a tough sell? Wicked is probably going to be huge hit. Greatest Showman was a surprise hit. Mamma Mia made $400 mil. La La Land. Elvis and Rocketman were all very successful. So I think audience do still like musicals when the music and story work well together.
Its not being marketed as one, which tells you all you need to know
@@Y.d.o.b.o.n
Joker: Folie à Deux” filmmaker Todd Phillips is backpedaling on whether or not the supervillain sequel is a musical, admitting in a “Fresh Air” interview Monday that it is, in fact, “the very definition of a musical.
Glad you enjoyed it! Same here, my expectations were low. And I really dug the ending. Very poetic. I also liked how kinda meta it was with his fanatics reacting to him rejecting the joker persona. Very much like the real life fans😏 out the theater I gave it a 7.9, but sleeping on it yeah it has its issues but I still think it’s a strong 7.7/10 oh and I hate musicals and most of those moments worked for me.
I'm down for musicals in theory and was actually looking forward to this more than the first when it was announced, but the idea of doing a radical genre shift only for it to be into a jukebox musical rather than focusing on original songwriting to fit said change really is the most Todd Phillips thing imaginable. Going from "covering" better Scorsese films you've already seen before to actually just covering Broadway classics you've heard before is certainly something.
Generally like Gaga and Phoenix is one of my favorite actors of all time, but I doubt I'll jump on this before it's streaming seeing as how a lack of originality seems to be the entire MO with these.
Honestly I enjoyed Megalopolis more than JOKER: Folie á Deux, I thought this film was boring, I hated the songs, I was going to walk out at one point, Megalopolis at least had me intrigued right to the end, even though it was a bit all over place, I still enjoyed that film more, Shia LaBeouf was a JOKER like character in Megalopolis.!
I’m ignoring all comments until I see the movie Saturday at 12:45pm at my local AMC cinema and I am excited for it, in fact to me it kind of gave away that it was going to be a musical when, I saw that Lady Gaga of all people was going to be playing Harley Quinn I mean, come on, if you don’t think it’s going to be a musical based on that simple casting choice alone, there’s a problem in my opinion.
Deadpool Wolverine was rated 14A in most of Canada. Lots of kids saw it here!
I never understood what people saw in the first film. It was a mash-up of Tai Driver & The King Of Comedy with a guy in clown make-up. Just my opinion...but being a huge fan of DC characters, I never saw the need for the original, much less the sequel.
Thank you for your review, James!
studios who finance movies wont make those kind of comedies anymore thats why they arent made anymore they want to avoid the twitter backlash
If Joker had been taken into custody, the logical sequel would've been organizing and accomplishing the breakout out of Arkham, and the hellish mayhem to follow (Cesar Romero style).
A little off-topic comment; but you bringing up walk the line, and Phoenix being poor at recreating the great Johnny Cash tunes, that’s one of the things I think James Mangold is looking to get right this time around in A Complete Unknown, Chalamet looks like he nailed the Bob Dylan vocals, I’m looking forward to that one.
Chalamet as Bob Dylan? Can't wait to not watch that.
Joker as a standalone was a legacy that should standalone.
If you say screw you to the fans they will say screw you back, hope this movie flops
I couldn’t agree more
Gotta Disagree with you on this one! I Liked it. Yeah, it has plot issues, and not as good as the first, but I thought it was pretty good and quite entertaining. It's "One flew over the Cucokoo Nest" + "All that Jazz" with a dash "Looking for Mister Goodbar" (The abrupt ending)
4:38 Lady Gaga has also proven very good at eating the past few years
Lady Gaga was the BEST part of this movie. The musical elements did not fully work but my god when she sings and in tge screen she steals the show! What a shame that they did not fully utilized her!
Joker: Folie a Deux is baffling, bizarre and I kind of loved it? What a complete troll of a movie and one that is actively trying to get you to hate it and piss you off. I mean this in the best possible way.
They really missed the opportunity of Batman doing a death metal anthem
Am skipping this one
You're not the only one.
still won't watch this despite my amc a list membership
Yeah, I don't want a musical. Sorry.
@decimustv4257 that's the last reason to not watch it.
@@FullMetalB lmao right… did they miss this entire review?
I still have to learn about an actual case of a serial killer or murderer that has a “legion” of fans as Hollywood insists it happens - not even Charles Manson
The whole thing is completely unrealistic.
@@CRM-114 Looking at what‘s going on all around the world, I couldn‘t disagree more.
Search Wade Wilson...and watch how crazy his case us...jo, not deadpool xD
Just saw it. Its not nearly as bad as everyone says it is. Its more of a cautionary tale
This movie takes antagonism and villains and elevates them into heroic protagonists.
Hope you're Wrong on this one! Still gonna see it this weekend!
I think I'll stream this one. Loved the first one but I dunno about a musical follow-up. 🤔
thanks for the details
The industry is trying to tell every classic genre with superhero/villains and it's just goofy
It was such a mixed bag...there were aspects of the movie i did like, although I walked in kind of knowing what to expect from early, nonspoiler reviews. It should have cut atleast 30 mins off the run time, and i was not a fan of the ending. Feels like Phillips knows this will be divisive and that the end will upset alot of die hard DC/Batman fans
This movie felt in some ways like it was channeling both Sidney Lumet films and Bob Fosse classics. And I absolutely loved it. How great it is for a mainstream director to use his clout and influence to make a movie like this. We don’t we it enough so I’m applauding it. Great to see subversive films being made with that New Hollywood sensibility. The first one was very obviously indebted to King of Comedy and Taxi Driver. This one feels less like Lumet and Fosse co-directed a weird movie about a mentally ill killer in clown makeup. It worked for me big time.
Shall I give you my opinion even though I have only seen the first movie
Evil James Hancock on the thumbnail.
variety gave it a rave....looks bozo to us. (smoking screams lung cancer) but phoenix does luv his ciggys. :( theyve aged him so much.
Glad you enjoyed the film! Can’t wait to check it out.
it reminds me of the Musical episode of Ally Mcbeal
Lol.
Still not seen the first one all the way through💚🇬🇧🌱 tried the latest batman last night & couldn't sit through that either, can't see this making my play list any time soon...
Should have saved that pose in thumbnail for smile 2
Great review i subscribed
Thank you. I enjoyed the trailer and I am watching it today in spite of all the bad critics. The music wss beautiful and Lady Gaga is always great.
Taking my mom Thursday. Thinking I should dress up as Joker…
Just got home from the theatre. Very deep film. Processing everything. Mom really enjoyed it.
WOW!! Joker: Folie A Deux is AWESOME!! I watched Joker: Folie A Deux on October 4th!! A MASTERPIECE!!💜💚💜💚
Great review James, thnx. I will check it out. On a side note did you watch Kermode's & Grace Randolph review on Megalopolis?
At least we have another film with a clown prince of crime this month - Terrifier 3
Sweeney Todd is a musical, the corpse bride is a musical, joker 2 is NOT a musical
Arthur Fleck’s son should become the true Joker in James Gunn DC.
maybe there’ll be a joker 3: menage a trois, where batman makes his appearance.
Something tells me if marvel attempted a movie like this you would have hated it. Seems the trend I’ve seen is if you are a hater of recent marvel, you like this movie. I’ll see if I find any more of those trends. So odd to me.
I love recent Marvel, and I absolutely loved this one. 🤷
I can watch over the top comic action movies just as much as dirty drama musicals that dip its toe into arthouse. I find it more irritating that many people are so stuck in their taste for genres that they apparently just want to watch the same movie over and over again.
I don’t care or need to see Batman in this movie as you say, it’s a take on the character. But to do a story like this wrapped in comic book knowing you’ll attract that kind of audience who treat theatres like sports games is a bad move and they are loud in their rage so this won’t go well word of mouth wise.
That ending sounds interesting but then I feel I’ve wasted time from the first one and then this when I see it. To know it’s all just for a twist of HE WASNT THE ACTUAL JOKERRRRR BUT INSPIRED THE REALLLL no thanks
No. He inspired the idea of Joker. Joker is not a single person in this universe, it is an idea that was created by Arthur Fleck and continues to live through other people. The animation at the beginning tells it all.
I don't think if Todd Phillips made a film like Old School or The Hangover today, They would be hits. Even a series like entourage which was a huge hit for HBO, ..... people aren't fascinated with that frat boy, party ...wolf of wall street type debauchery anymore. Well depending....so Todd Phillips hands down one of my favourite film makers. But, look at the guy who directed anchorman and the other guys....he moved on to more serious content as well. The world....just isn't in the same place it was 14 years ago.... With all this p Diddy stuff coming out....
I am so glad they left Batman out of this.
Why is everyone hedging on this movie?
wonka made over 600 million lol so I think musicals can still do alright. I agree though, they really like to hide that they're musicals!
There’s no going back to comedy for Todd Phillips. He outgrew it, or changed and doesn’t desire it anymore; or else he’d still be doing it.
I don’t think blaming a humorless society is the answer. If someone feels funny they’ll crack a joke with no one else around. No…anyone mired in the King of Comedy, to the point of imitation in two movies, isn’t interested in genuine, healthy lafter.
(SPOILERS) I just saw the movie yesterday and I loved it. Although it is a musical, it doesn't FEEL like a musical much akin to how the first movie doesn't feel like a ballet performance. The musical performance scenes do so well in the movie context to symbolize Arthur going off meds and slowly drifting into madness. Arthur Fleck could never be a "Hannibal" or anything like that. He could never be THE Joker that we know and love, and that actually makes both these movies so much more tragic. All the way throughout both these movies, the audience is hoping for a moment where Arthur can shine. A moment where he finally tells a "Joker esque" funny sadistic joke, or a moment where we realize that he actually has some type of hidden agenda, manipulating the shrink at Arkham in the first movie, or maybe ending up mounting a revolution teased there. But no, Arthur never gets one single moment like that, save for in his own head. In my opinion that is a masterful move. Arthur Fleck is in the end nothing more than a broken man, finding refuge in his shadow.
The ending of this movie was in my opinion a real stroke of genius, and no matter how much I wanted to see Joaquin step into the real Jokers shoes, that was never the point. And I realized that by the last quarter of this movie. Seeing the real joker cutting into Arthurs stomach whilst maniacally laughing was the best ending I could have imagined. The shock and impact of that moment was something entirely different, but it makes so much sense for Arthurs character arc. Arthur never did anything on purpose, he only acted on emotions or trauma response. But he did create a symbol. That symbol being more than a man and something which will live on and come back to haunt Gotham once again at a later time after having died within Arthur himself.
A point I want to make here to end my rant is that Arthur is the exact opposite of what Joker is supposed to be. Arthur is not manipulative, cunning or even intelligent enough to become what the Joker is supposed to be, even with the help of his adapted persona. The insistense these movies ultimately made about The Joker being an idea rather than a man is so perfect to the "character". Arthur never did anything on purpose, only wanted to see the world burn, and that is exactly what he accomplished by CREATING The Joker.
That's it for my rant, it honestly seems like everyone just buys into the idea of this movie being horrible without giving it a real chance which is really sad.
an artist tries to challenge the audience and may fail, but a critic only reinforces popular opinion- youtube has grown into a fascinating hivemind, its baffling that there arent more people disturbed by the fact, that videos are routinely titled i watched x, so you dont have to, critical thinking itself can be an artform, if it leaves room, for discourse, but that just became another buzz word. im sure many have read the oscar wilde quote, that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but the highest form of intelligence- i think its wild, that even the overused sarcasm of most content creators, that serves to portray your youtube persona as more likeable, is slowly being replaced, by inserting more memes, which amounts to creative regurgitation. regarding just folie a deux, its a film i respect and appreciate, because its hard to love- theres a lot of missed opportunities, a particularly bizarre decision, to include prison rape, it even shows glimpses, of what a more fan pleasing film couldve been (id argue that the cover of anthony newleys the joker includes more true to comics imagery, than all of the first movie). it certainly made me ponder the road not taken, arthur couldve had the girl, the admiration of the crowd....yet he finally dropped the act. theres more than one message in this flick and even if it was a cynical cash grab, which i certainly dont see in the movie itself, my main takeaway was how genuienly uncomfortable it felt- the slightly off key singing, that grinds the movies momentum, to a halt of blackness- what makes the musical genre especially so unpopular with a modern audiences, is that its vulnerable, honest sentiment, naked, the antithesis to a quip-filled cameo fest, like deadpool vs wolverine. i strongly feel, that this film, even if the storys not being played out in present time, says a fair bit, about how the world has changed, in the last 5 years, since the first one dropped. it wasnt love at first sight, but after pondering it for a bit, i feel, this eclipses the first movie, not story wise, not in political discourse, or even about, what was real and what it all meant, but sheer emotional impact wise. i get some of the backlash and theres talking points obviously include no critical thinking whatsoever (how many times has ledgers joker been brought up?), but in the end, i cared about arthur, more so than the joker and thats why i felt the sudden urge, to leave this post, from a nobody- if nothing else, its an honest opinion, for what i felt to be an honest movie
@fabianhammer2864
Really appreciated this response! After all this is exactly what movies should be about. Creating food for thought and creating dialogue about what it all meant. Not dimwittedly jumping on bandwagons of hate or complete adoration for something based on public reception. After all these "echochambers" only exist on the Internet. People really need to take a minute to make up their own minds before subscribing to someone else's opinions.
@@nicolaiaubert4127 likewise, regarding your response, its also appreciated, although im not sure, if your point about the internet isnt slowly bleeding into real life- maybe ive just been online too much, now that its getting colder. either way, wishin you a good one!
Is a shame for me because I wanted a Joker 2 so badly but I'm not watching this at the theater. I really dislike musicals in general, probably will stream it when it comes out
Excited for this review. I bet it sucks 0:21
As usual, I'm here for an honest review not predetermined by American culture wars BS. You also have the advantage of not being a grouchy so and so who hates anything kind. So thanks for that, and for this review. Nothing I've heard so far even mentioned it's a musical (I'm not a fan of musicals but you just made a great point about their potential power), it's all been anti "woke" men children whining about why they think it is what it is. I didn't watch 1 , and definitely wasn't going to watch this, but you've actually made a case - and literally on all of UA-cam you're one of only two people who have done that. Bravo for your craft, and thank you.
Wait a minu…it’s a musical?!!
Gladly not suprised your not shitting all over this film
I feel sorry for all the bros who didn’t get in the first movie that Arthur isn’t the joker, and that he’s just a poor troubled soul who has delusions as a coping mechanism. It was made abundantly clear.
This is exactly the same Arthur and corrupt Gotham as the first Joker.
Joker was an outstanding movie. But a musical? Yeah, I'm skipping this one out.
I’m sitting this one out.
Gaga! ❤
There’s nothing more pretentious than the use of français to merely say Joker 2. Having said that, I’m pleasantly surprised you enjoyed it, James. I expected this film to slowly dissolve to 2 individuals strung out on ketamine and horse tranquilizer while receiving ECT shock treatments on a psychiatric forensic unit. Yet, there is an actual story?!? Shocked.
Penguin is amazing because it’s a distorted version of the Sopranos. It doesn’t overstep its boundaries.
Just seen it and totally agree with your sentiment: it’s a Joker movie! Huge disappointment. But clues of his poor mental health and limitations hinted at in the first film. The story was more fixed on your point about fantasy and entertainment being a fleeting experience in reality.
Ok you,ve brought my interest back. I was quite "meh" about this one because it's all about Arthur Fleck to me and I felt they might have dimmed him to make Gaga shine. But you said their chemistry is good, so yay bring it on. I don;t mind musical numbers if it gives goosebumps which you said it did too. Looking forward to it. Aw man I was so eager to watch this whole video but I'm gonna avoid spoilers. You rock dude!!
How you get 900 views in 1 hour?
There are good films and there are bad films.
And then there are some truly awful films.
Joker: Folie a Deux is worse than all of them put together..
Harley Quinn is the villain and people wanted a DCEU flick. I liked this movie better than the first one.
I was never interested in seeing this film.
Wonka was bad and this sounds worse.😅
Absolute masterpiece. It is easily the best movie this year. It is - surprise! - not some brainless popcorn movie, and seeing how the first one did his own take on the Batman universe, I find it rather baffling how anyone can be surprised the second one continues to do so. And in a very clever, very tragic and painful way. Funny also, how the „Looney Tunes“ cartoon at the beginning basically gave us the whole plot ahead.
Thank you! At least one person got it... loved the movie😢
I disagree this film wasn’t necessary or entertaining
Just a Cynical Retread that was made to Troll Fans
And it’s most egregious crime is it’s boring
Let’s not pretend this was High Art
Spiderman's rogue gallery is not anywhere close to being as great as Batman's
As soon as I realized this was a musical all my interest to go see it at the theater vanished.
A full blown musical? Hard pass
Todd Phillips isn't great at this sequel thing
I may have to pass
** edit**
Just got back from seeing a screening at Showcase (it was free and the Wife wanted to go )
I have to be brutally honest this Film is Terrible
The Worst Film I’ve seen this year
It was Boring the courtroom stuff dragged on and on
The Musical Interludes put the brakes on mild momentum it had
Is there Talent on Screen ? Sure but to what end
And the Ending undermines the First Joker
What a Freaking Disaster
I got to go for free and still felt cheated
I take back everything I said about Megalopolis at least it had ambitions
This was a Cynical Retread of Part One ☝️ I never need to watch again !!
Uh..... no.
Great 👍🏻 video & review as always!
Looking forward to watching this & making up my mind about it.
Hoping I love it as much as I am LOVING Penguin right now.
Also hoping we can get your full opinion on Penguin perhaps when the season is over.
Keep it up! 👍🏻.