I am kind of surprised Luis didn’t take Show and Tell the first time he saw it with the notion that it’s reasonable with Oath targets in addition to wheeling Portal.
Missing out on the triplicate titan was rough. I know it's not the ideal big guy, but I think in 6 player you just take the biggest thing you see doing this strategy instead of looking for the ideal big guy. It was the biggest guy available
Moving in on Oath right after passing Through the Breach was risky. I'm guessing there was a second "cheat in fatties" drafter at the table (commenting before I see matches to verify)
I was surprised by how married you were to the Oath. There were packs as late as p3p4 where there were good small creatures and nothing else, and you had nothing to Oath into, but you passed them by. I was expecting you to pivot into Goose or Tracker and drop the Oath.
this man with leyline of alexandria 😆- i also feel the oath pick was rough especially in pack 3 when you had to pass some solid green dorks. Overall though LoA coming in hot
To me, Oath is the worst card in the cube for similar reasons of why Lurrys is the best. Lurrus makes you draft an inherently good deck of 1 and 2 drops. Oath makes you draft shitty decks, and it rarely even plays well.
@@399pi I dunno, one of the bottom cards, seeing how much it can warp the draft and your deck. Unlike Flash, which can essentially be splashed into any deck you want (whether or not it's a good idea really depends), but Oath is one of the most demanding cards for building around, and the payoff, even if you get the cards you need, requires you to play Oath early, and the longer it goes, the worse it gets. Meaning you twisted your deck around for a one-of combo piece. As a Plan-B for a reanimator deck, I can see how it would add value. But even in this draft, seeing a lot of potentially viable cards be passed for the sake of the Oath suggests that it was a negative value in LSV's draft.
Card needs Forbidden Orchard and something like Hermit Druid added to the cube. Oath is also a trap for combo because Oath is control win condition. Sure, you can Oath out a big hasty dude, but it's better as "I can play a threat for two mana and spend the rest of my mana on removal and countermagic." It's like a Delver of Secrets on steroids with a little crack cocaine sprinkled on. I also think Yawgmoth's Will is underrated right now in the cube. It's not the powerhouse it once was where it ended the game on the spot, but it's arguably better than Regrowth or Eternal Witness because you can play a land into a spell. Milling a bunch of cards with Oath of Druids and then using Yawgmoth's Will to get your best land and non-creature threat is good enough of a play. I don't get playing Tamiyo but then brushing off Will as unplayable lol.
@@399pi I could. It has a middling payoff that is usually done better by other cards in the cube, and it forces you to draft some very awkward decks. You miss out on efficient creatures, which are a huge part of the current cube. It's a card that not only is often not good to cast, but it also is not even good to draft. Hard to imagine a more narrow and replaceable card with more downsides.
I feel like Oath is just not supported in this cube. I love the card. have an old vintage deck built around it and love it, but this format just doesn't work. No cards that give your opponent creatures. Too many creatures that actively work against it. Only 2 cards that give your creatures haste to really win the turn you get to oath. And quite a few big pay off creatures are just okay at best. All of this and you have to build around it to even get the real value from it. I would either consider cutting it or giving it more cards to make it function (like forbidden Orchard)
So after watching the draft, I dont think you were in the wrong colors... But the cards opened at the table for your colors were just... Not synergistic/especially very good, especially since none of the many spec combo picks worked out
Deck was decent if you side out oath and side in tracker and mana dorks. Ramp or channel to portal, narset + echo, chariot + saga tokens. Playing oath the best you can hope is doing 14 damages with echo sheoldred but then if they can kill sheoldred off the card they draw with echo you don't even have a way to do the remaining 6 damages. Maybe if you add forbidden orchard to the cube...
I know this deck was a little janky, but the amount of times he had Undermountain Adventurer and didn't play it has me questioning that card a little bit.
What a tough draft.... Oath is a hard one to spec on it seems. Because if you draft with a focus on it but the cards don't show up, you have a shell of a deck without teeth. But if you have it in the back of your kind and draft normally, if the big creatures for Oath do show up, you have to cut a lot of your other picks. Like we see here, so many creatures that had some value were passed over for the sake of the Oath. Not to mention you *have* to draw the one-of early for it to work. Draw it late, and you might as well just cast the creature it gets you. In all, I feel like outside a pre-existing reanimator, Oath is a trap.
"what am I supposed to do?" he says. Give up on Oath is the answer. I haven't seen if you make the oath work yet in the vid, but even if you do, you should have dropped the oath somewhere after the middle of P2. Just the absolute definition of loss of flexibility. "I don't think I was supposed to take Jewell at where I was at but I wish I had it" he says....if you're going to play that way you should be consistent! FWIW.
Winning a game was a triumph with this deck. I think not taking titan or woodfall primus or show and tell was a mistake, good but not great hits i think are worth it compared to the risk of nothing
Still don’t understand why people don’t like 4 packs of 11 when doing a six player draft. Wheeling the same pack TWICE is kinda a beat, especially when that pack is all bricks for you
"Could we get a turn 1 library just once?" lmao I know you desperately wanted to set up a "never lucky" joke there but it can't land if you literally keep drawing library turn 1
This have to be one of the worst drafts I've seen. Takes workshop over show and tell in an oath deck. Let's torsten go. Man lsv.... what are you doing....
The amount of times a mid-draft LSV has cited a single talisman in his pool as a reason Workshop could be good... Workshop into Talisman just leaves you with the same amount of usable mana as you would've had with a regular land, but down a card! I think he's chasing the high of the Academy decks he was getting a few months back. (Hard to blame him.) Workshop, Saga, and Urza are the cards that most frequently derail his drafts for the worse.
Thumbnail image is gas, can't wait for next year when LSV's opinion on Library flips again.
Next year?
I think you meant next week.
I'm currently buying all the Mind Twist stock I can while LSV says it's bad.
I’ve been drafting a decent amount of late and Mind Twist has definitely gotten worse than I remember it being just a year ago.
@@traycarrotit’s a good long term investment. i’ve been a long time tamiyo holder and things just keep getting better
Noise Marine is LSV's favorite card that has not yet been put on the stack or intentionally drafted by him
Warping all the picks around Oath so you can oath up a couple four drops is certainly a choice.
When the inventor of Stormless Storm says that the deck has threads that don't quite come together, you know that Library is doing some work.
The amount of T1 Libraries was more than I expected even with the excellent thumbnail.
I am kind of surprised Luis didn’t take Show and Tell the first time he saw it with the notion that it’s reasonable with Oath targets in addition to wheeling Portal.
Remember when LSV was down on Library? Pepperidge farm remembers.
Missing out on the triplicate titan was rough. I know it's not the ideal big guy, but I think in 6 player you just take the biggest thing you see doing this strategy instead of looking for the ideal big guy. It was the biggest guy available
I think forcing the oath maybe was the bane of this draft. There’s a lot of good mana dorks that were passed for a solid simic midrange.
Moving in on Oath right after passing Through the Breach was risky. I'm guessing there was a second "cheat in fatties" drafter at the table (commenting before I see matches to verify)
17:07 i see The same, not taking caryated and hafling only because The stupid oath was soo bad...
Prime example of getting lost in the sauce
I was surprised by how married you were to the Oath. There were packs as late as p3p4 where there were good small creatures and nothing else, and you had nothing to Oath into, but you passed them by. I was expecting you to pivot into Goose or Tracker and drop the Oath.
Loving these regular Vintage drafts Thanks LSV!!!!
this man with leyline of alexandria 😆- i also feel the oath pick was rough especially in pack 3 when you had to pass some solid green dorks. Overall though LoA coming in hot
Library or Alexandria I love it ❤️ We have 1 Library form Arabian Nights and it is one of the most prezied Magic posessions we have here at home 😂
To me, Oath is the worst card in the cube for similar reasons of why Lurrys is the best. Lurrus makes you draft an inherently good deck of 1 and 2 drops. Oath makes you draft shitty decks, and it rarely even plays well.
Oath is a high-variance Animate Dead - it's obviously worse, but I could never name it the worst card in the cube.
Agree, the "I'm an oath deck" so I'll pass all the good cards and hope to get lucky is such a disaster of a plan.
@@399pi I dunno, one of the bottom cards, seeing how much it can warp the draft and your deck. Unlike Flash, which can essentially be splashed into any deck you want (whether or not it's a good idea really depends), but Oath is one of the most demanding cards for building around, and the payoff, even if you get the cards you need, requires you to play Oath early, and the longer it goes, the worse it gets. Meaning you twisted your deck around for a one-of combo piece.
As a Plan-B for a reanimator deck, I can see how it would add value. But even in this draft, seeing a lot of potentially viable cards be passed for the sake of the Oath suggests that it was a negative value in LSV's draft.
Card needs Forbidden Orchard and something like Hermit Druid added to the cube. Oath is also a trap for combo because Oath is control win condition. Sure, you can Oath out a big hasty dude, but it's better as "I can play a threat for two mana and spend the rest of my mana on removal and countermagic." It's like a Delver of Secrets on steroids with a little crack cocaine sprinkled on.
I also think Yawgmoth's Will is underrated right now in the cube. It's not the powerhouse it once was where it ended the game on the spot, but it's arguably better than Regrowth or Eternal Witness because you can play a land into a spell. Milling a bunch of cards with Oath of Druids and then using Yawgmoth's Will to get your best land and non-creature threat is good enough of a play.
I don't get playing Tamiyo but then brushing off Will as unplayable lol.
@@399pi I could. It has a middling payoff that is usually done better by other cards in the cube, and it forces you to draft some very awkward decks. You miss out on efficient creatures, which are a huge part of the current cube. It's a card that not only is often not good to cast, but it also is not even good to draft. Hard to imagine a more narrow and replaceable card with more downsides.
> rly?
“leyline of l o a”
😂
I feel like Oath is just not supported in this cube. I love the card. have an old vintage deck built around it and love it, but this format just doesn't work.
No cards that give your opponent creatures. Too many creatures that actively work against it. Only 2 cards that give your creatures haste to really win the turn you get to oath. And quite a few big pay off creatures are just okay at best. All of this and you have to build around it to even get the real value from it.
I would either consider cutting it or giving it more cards to make it function (like forbidden Orchard)
Its genuinely nice to watch these videos at 2x speed. Magic does not move at my pace xD
Leyline of Alexandria
So after watching the draft, I dont think you were in the wrong colors... But the cards opened at the table for your colors were just... Not synergistic/especially very good, especially since none of the many spec combo picks worked out
Deck was decent if you side out oath and side in tracker and mana dorks. Ramp or channel to portal, narset + echo, chariot + saga tokens. Playing oath the best you can hope is doing 14 damages with echo sheoldred but then if they can kill sheoldred off the card they draw with echo you don't even have a way to do the remaining 6 damages. Maybe if you add forbidden orchard to the cube...
Invigorate in the cube? What am I missing?
Hey Judge, LSV secretly companioned Leyline of Alexandria in 6 of his 8 games!
One of the few legit train wrecks I've seen u draft in a while. Hate to c it but it does happen
Playing a deck like 8land Green is probably the quickest way to understand how busted Land Grant is.
I haven't seen the draft yet my guess is between 0 and 9 times. so 4.
Why not even consider Sail Into the West in pack 3?
"If I play against someone who Oath isn't good against, I'll side in Paradise Druid"
So... Everyone?
I know this deck was a little janky, but the amount of times he had Undermountain Adventurer and didn't play it has me questioning that card a little bit.
Legendary drafter
What a tough draft.... Oath is a hard one to spec on it seems. Because if you draft with a focus on it but the cards don't show up, you have a shell of a deck without teeth. But if you have it in the back of your kind and draft normally, if the big creatures for Oath do show up, you have to cut a lot of your other picks. Like we see here, so many creatures that had some value were passed over for the sake of the Oath.
Not to mention you *have* to draw the one-of early for it to work. Draw it late, and you might as well just cast the creature it gets you.
In all, I feel like outside a pre-existing reanimator, Oath is a trap.
"what am I supposed to do?" he says. Give up on Oath is the answer. I haven't seen if you make the oath work yet in the vid, but even if you do, you should have dropped the oath somewhere after the middle of P2. Just the absolute definition of loss of flexibility. "I don't think I was supposed to take Jewell at where I was at but I wish I had it" he says....if you're going to play that way you should be consistent! FWIW.
Rough draft. Literally nothing worked out which is wild
Winning a game was a triumph with this deck.
I think not taking titan or woodfall primus or show and tell was a mistake, good but not great hits i think are worth it compared to the risk of nothing
Still don’t understand why people don’t like 4 packs of 11 when doing a six player draft. Wheeling the same pack TWICE is kinda a beat, especially when that pack is all bricks for you
"Could we get a turn 1 library just once?"
lmao I know you desperately wanted to set up a "never lucky" joke there but it can't land if you literally keep drawing library turn 1
never been this early
Never been this late
never been this on time
This have to be one of the worst drafts I've seen. Takes workshop over show and tell in an oath deck. Let's torsten go. Man lsv.... what are you doing....
The amount of times a mid-draft LSV has cited a single talisman in his pool as a reason Workshop could be good... Workshop into Talisman just leaves you with the same amount of usable mana as you would've had with a regular land, but down a card!
I think he's chasing the high of the Academy decks he was getting a few months back. (Hard to blame him.) Workshop, Saga, and Urza are the cards that most frequently derail his drafts for the worse.
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