If it's in ou, it's probably bad in vgc (disregard rillaboom and dragonite and gholdengo and heatran and ogerponW and kingambit and ting lu and landorus and-)
disagree on the first point, some of the top vgc mons (fluttermane, urshifu) are frail mons that usually can't live more than a single attack. if you put a focus sash on them, you can often get 2 KOs in two moves, which is worthwile. at level 50 and with up to 8 moves of coverage, pokemon dying to one attack is extremely common.
@@binarycat1237 flutter mane may have terrible defense but its spd is massive (even though it has very low hp) and it has a decent defensive typing, meanwhile urshifu has pretty nice physical bulk (100 hp 100 def) while most of the time using tera anyway (although even if you dont tera, if you are using rapid strike water/fighting is not the end of the world, even if REALLY bad against shit like the previously mentioned Flutter Mane) in the end of the day, he is atleast a little bit right, because being paper thin is the excession, not the norm for top vgc mons
What gets me about doubles format is that the single player games are so shy about letting you play it. This is the official format, and it's extremely rare outside of competitive.
Hacks that make double battles good are a bitch to fight because you are built to take on singles and then they just clean sweep you suddenly because fuck you. Doubles is my most hated format because of this.
Theres a similar balance to why Sword masters and Armor knights suck in Fire Emblem; on paper they're very good at killing one enemy or tanking one attack respectively, but they're bad because they're not good at dealing with multiple enemies due to lack of bulk, or in case of the armors, too slow to get anything going. Doubles is so interesting
I think it goes without saying but regardless it's still crazy to me how much simply adding an extra Pokemon on each player's side fundamentally changes the strategies and Pokemon that are strong
if you want the definition of a set up team that works in vgc look at wolfey's snorlax and komo-oh team it was just a couple set up sweepers and their supports
Setup teams only work in Bo1 due to their nature, opponents will know exactly what your goal is by game 2 so it probably won't work anymore past game 1
yes setup teams work super well if you have the right support for them!! in regulation F my teams were both anchored by follow me/friend guard clefairy plus torterra or blastoise with shell smash. i’ve been doing something similar in reg G on showdown using a bulky calyrex-s with clear amulet, bold nature & calm mind and it’s so satisfying to see all the people expecting a timid choice specs astral barrage spam lose their shit when i use tera fairy draining kiss😌
a lot of this seems to boil down to vgc being just too aggressive and quick for these pokemon to matter; being able to sweep after setting up for 4 turns matters little in a setting where battles are decided in just around 6-8
there's an old (gen 8 three years ago) wolfey video where he and pokeaim talk about mons that are bad in vgc but good in singles and so much of their list is bulky pokes that just can't get enough done.
I wholeheartedly believe that the biggest fraud when comparing the two formats has to be Gliscor. The mf burned down OU, just to become a "staple" in Ubers later as they realised that Koraidon can't touch it and it can (when throwing the right predicts) switch into Miraidon too. In VGC? Oh hell nah. Wolfey said it best, just don't try man.
Games ending quicker, at least for me, has been a significantly more enjoyable experience than a Mon (friendly or opponent) getting set up and having no swap in making it GG.
fun trivia: garganacl actually got a lot of usage in early formats because salt cure is so good and it could also learn moves like Wide Guard to support its team. legit pretty good mon in the first few VGC regulations.
the correction was fair but i don't think you bashed volcarona and valiant in doubles nearly as much as you said you did, everything in that slide made sense to me
nah but, Blaziken is actually kinda good: it can outspeed Proto SpA Flutter Mane after 1 speed boost and KO with Flare Blitz, can hit Incineroar and Chien Pao for super effective damage, and KO the annoying Rillabooms trying to get rid of elec terrain
@@ElectricWindGirlFriend yea, that's why I use: -Miraidon to kill Urshifu-Rapid before it can use Surging Strikes -Follow Me Ogerpon-Wellspring to redirect moves until I get enough speed boosts -Protect to deal with Fake Out
@@ElectricWindGirlFriend yea, I have a time machine and I use it to travel to the future and look at how the meta changes throughout generations (btw Ariados finally got a mega evo in gen 17 and it's been OU for 20 years, before getting outclassed by Primal Dustox)
Weaville sucked anyways, even without Chien-Pao being around. Dark type competition is stiff and Weavile just doesn't have the movepool to get it done. There is already tons of pressure for being the dark type from Incin, and on the offensive side Urshifu exists and can invalidate protect, as well as auto crit. And then now in SV, Chien-Pao is outright better, becuase it not only hits harder whilst being faster it also allows its physical attacking teammates to hit harder with Sword of Ruin. Even if Pao isn't there, Kingambit also exists, with Defiant to flip the tables on Incin. On the special attacking side, Chi-yu and in earlier regulations Hydreigon exist too, even Meow being the most used mon in Series 1. There are tons of better VGC Darks over Weaville so like it isnt the leopard's fault Weavile is doodoo, it always had been.
worth noting that people experimented with Sneasel over Weavile in SWSH pretty much exclusively because Sneasel has Inner Focus and Weavile doesn’t so not only is Weavile outclassed by Chien-Pao, it’s arguably outclassed by its younger sibling too.
Can you make a video on mons that are carried by their ability ? Hot take I think Chien Pao is heavily carried by its ability in vgc,if it didn't have sword of ruin,it would never be used,a mon that is incredibly squishy and prone to intimidate,has no good utility outside of sword of ruin
Court change could actually become useful if screens come back into the meta as they tend to do in restricted meta games, however then you need to run cinderace on a restricted metagame which. Might not be the best
I have run Weavile with Surf next to Weakness policy weak armor Armarouge. Not saying it's good but it is pretty funny online with a best of one format
to add on to the weavile section, weavile basically doesn't have an ability which would be something that could give weavile a niche, at least it has fake out, but there's a better dark type with fake out and also ive been seeing a decent amount of success with banded iron valiant in vgc, banded cc does like 80% to ogerpon and flutter mane drops to spirit break, it does need a lot of support which is why i pair it with booster speed flutter with icy wind to beat specs flutter, but yeah setting up isn't worth it much in vgc, it's why banded dnite is way better than d dance or s dance dnite, the immediate power is so useful and sometimes u cant get a turn to set up safely
There are a couple exceptions to walls being terrible in vgc such as cosmic power eternatus and chansey with guard swap Shuckle being used more than never
It’s only ou because chien-pao is banned is false af, chien deserved the ban and Weavile has a amazing speed tier and got its tools back and the meta needed a fast ice type and Weavile always comes through to fill that.
Funnily enough, Cinderace's Court Change can be used against a completely different type of setup. If their Tornadus (or Suicune, etc.) uses Tailwind, you can court change it and give that effect to your team and remove it from theirs. Still prolly not enough to validate its usage, but it is an interesting quirk.
I never understimate the single format whit banned pokemon. I think that if many pokemon have to be banned for a balanced game that means that the whole format is wrong
No, it just means that the game is poorly balanced, which is a fact. Pokemon, competitively at least, is not balanced towards 6v6 singles; honestly, even vgc could barely be called balanced, but whenever they actually make something balanced, they balance it towards vgc. Plus, vgc also has banned pokemon, lmao (all the box art/similar powered legendaries + mythicals)
@doginpillows20 I know, but that is only for a limited period of time during a generation (and still only one per team) so they're effectively still banned in most VGC and BSS formats per gen Semantically, they're not the same, and they're not implemented in the same either, but both are effectively still bans, which is my point really
@@ElectricWindGirlFriend How? when i commented i saw no other comments, and when i scrolled through the comments no comment is older/ same age as my comment?
Thunder Punch Blaziken is actually good on a Miraidon team in reg G (source: the 1 battle where I fought a Kyogre rain team)
If it's in ou, it's probably bad in vgc (disregard rillaboom and dragonite and gholdengo and heatran and ogerponW and kingambit and ting lu and landorus and-)
And dozo and Garg and gouge and glimmora and bolt and moon (at some point)
And incineroar(other way around)
To put it simply:
-if your frail you are bad (with some exceptions like chien pao)
-if your passive you are bad
disagree on the first point, some of the top vgc mons (fluttermane, urshifu) are frail mons that usually can't live more than a single attack.
if you put a focus sash on them, you can often get 2 KOs in two moves, which is worthwile. at level 50 and with up to 8 moves of coverage, pokemon dying to one attack is extremely common.
@@binarycat1237 flutter mane may have terrible defense but its spd is massive (even though it has very low hp) and it has a decent defensive typing, meanwhile urshifu has pretty nice physical bulk (100 hp 100 def) while most of the time using tera anyway (although even if you dont tera, if you are using rapid strike water/fighting is not the end of the world, even if REALLY bad against shit like the previously mentioned Flutter Mane)
in the end of the day, he is atleast a little bit right, because being paper thin is the excession, not the norm for top vgc mons
@@binarycat1237
Do you consider conkeldurr frail?
Not a top mon @@GravityIsFalling
mons that are frail are only bad if they lack the offensive power to make up for it
What gets me about doubles format is that the single player games are so shy about letting you play it. This is the official format, and it's extremely rare outside of competitive.
Pokémon Collosseum and DX continue being the best and most relevant pokémon games and they aren't even made by GameFreak
Would be interesting if they added a double battle mode for the new games where u can play them with all doubles
@@Waffles17643i have been wishing for this for years (Alongside difficulty levels you can choose)
Hacks that make double battles good are a bitch to fight because you are built to take on singles and then they just clean sweep you suddenly because fuck you. Doubles is my most hated format because of this.
Theres a similar balance to why Sword masters and Armor knights suck in Fire Emblem; on paper they're very good at killing one enemy or tanking one attack respectively, but they're bad because they're not good at dealing with multiple enemies due to lack of bulk, or in case of the armors, too slow to get anything going. Doubles is so interesting
I think it goes without saying but regardless it's still crazy to me how much simply adding an extra Pokemon on each player's side fundamentally changes the strategies and Pokemon that are strong
To be fair vgc also has 4 pokemon per team rather than 6 which also has pretty significant effects that make vgc very different from smogon doubles
@@yomireal7570 item clause is also not to be underestimated but that was touched on a lil in the video
Really appreciate the clarification, volcarona is the definitive goat, won a PC with it in reg E and set up teams 100% can work
if you want the definition of a set up team that works in vgc look at wolfey's snorlax and komo-oh team it was just a couple set up sweepers and their supports
Yep I've used set up teams from reg b-f and got master ball with them pretty quickly lmao. I love my set ups
Setup teams only work in Bo1 due to their nature, opponents will know exactly what your goal is by game 2 so it probably won't work anymore past game 1
yes setup teams work super well if you have the right support for them!! in regulation F my teams were both anchored by follow me/friend guard clefairy plus torterra or blastoise with shell smash. i’ve been doing something similar in reg G on showdown using a bulky calyrex-s with clear amulet, bold nature & calm mind and it’s so satisfying to see all the people expecting a timid choice specs astral barrage spam lose their shit when i use tera fairy draining kiss😌
a lot of this seems to boil down to vgc being just too aggressive and quick for these pokemon to matter; being able to sweep after setting up for 4 turns matters little in a setting where battles are decided in just around 6-8
That and the fact that most of these sweepers are quite frail, a major disadvantage when facing two Pokémon at once
there's an old (gen 8 three years ago) wolfey video where he and pokeaim talk about mons that are bad in vgc but good in singles and so much of their list is bulky pokes that just can't get enough done.
I wholeheartedly believe that the biggest fraud when comparing the two formats has to be Gliscor. The mf burned down OU, just to become a "staple" in Ubers later as they realised that Koraidon can't touch it and it can (when throwing the right predicts) switch into Miraidon too. In VGC? Oh hell nah. Wolfey said it best, just don't try man.
Games ending quicker, at least for me, has been a significantly more enjoyable experience than a Mon (friendly or opponent) getting set up and having no swap in making it GG.
yeah in gen9 singles theres way too many ways for the game to end and you just go, "well there's literally nothing i couldve done"
Blissey & Garganacl are the most annoying walls to deal with in singles.
fun trivia: garganacl actually got a lot of usage in early formats because salt cure is so good and it could also learn moves like Wide Guard to support its team. legit pretty good mon in the first few VGC regulations.
I had a tournament back in Reg B that went on 2 hours longer than it was supposed to because each round was dragged out by Garganacl mirror matches.
@@mushroomdude123 dondozo mirror matches were a big time issue in early gen 9 VGC too
I am glad everyday that stall isn't viable in VGC, that is one thing they completely nailed
HEY
I'm sending Perish Trap and Wo-Chien/Ting Lu to your place.
@@hailthequeenFM Thanks for feeding my calyrex ice rider
@@hailthequeenFMchien pao appreciates the treats
the correction was fair but i don't think you bashed volcarona and valiant in doubles nearly as much as you said you did, everything in that slide made sense to me
I almost feel like this was deserved. "A Power Point about Bad Pokemon," and there's Weavile right in the thumbnail, after asking for so long lmao.
LMFAO I’m so sorry
Shout out to Ferrothorn for being good in both
I want that dracovish plush its so damn cute 😍
nah but, Blaziken is actually kinda good: it can outspeed Proto SpA Flutter Mane after 1 speed boost and KO with Flare Blitz, can hit Incineroar and Chien Pao for super effective damage, and KO the annoying Rillabooms trying to get rid of elec terrain
In theory it works WAY better than in practice. It hates urshifu, speed control, and fake out unfort.
@@ElectricWindGirlFriend yea, that's why I use:
-Miraidon to kill Urshifu-Rapid before it can use Surging Strikes
-Follow Me Ogerpon-Wellspring to redirect moves until I get enough speed boosts
-Protect to deal with Fake Out
Speed booster fairy Tera dazzling gleam:
Speed booster fairy Tera dazzling gleam:
who’s running proto SpA over speed tho lol
Klefki is good right 😊
I think so..???
I don't know, haven't used it in a fair amount of time.
it's ok esp in earlier formats with prankster screens. that typing is FANTASTIC.
I mean, it did get banned to DUbers in gen 32 because of the Fairy Lock buff, and we all know GameFreak never bans non-legendaries from VGC, so...
@@MegaSpamziken1996 gen 32?
@@ElectricWindGirlFriend yea, I have a time machine and I use it to travel to the future and look at how the meta changes throughout generations (btw Ariados finally got a mega evo in gen 17 and it's been OU for 20 years, before getting outclassed by Primal Dustox)
Zamazenta is a unique case of this because what makes it bad in VGC is mostly it being a restricted Pokemon being the VGC equivalent of an Uber
zamazenta was only bad in gen 8 because it didnt have body press. now that it has it in reg g its actually good and probably better than zacian.
@@Rikhard9better than zacian is an insane take but i still think zamazenta will be a lot better this time around.
Not for its passive but glimora was good in vgc with meteor beam, good typing theatenign some common targets
Yeah that’s the other, more meaningful stuff. It’s the only reason hazards are at all relevant in vgc
Weaville sucked anyways, even without Chien-Pao being around. Dark type competition is stiff and Weavile just doesn't have the movepool to get it done. There is already tons of pressure for being the dark type from Incin, and on the offensive side Urshifu exists and can invalidate protect, as well as auto crit. And then now in SV, Chien-Pao is outright better, becuase it not only hits harder whilst being faster it also allows its physical attacking teammates to hit harder with Sword of Ruin. Even if Pao isn't there, Kingambit also exists, with Defiant to flip the tables on Incin. On the special attacking side, Chi-yu and in earlier regulations Hydreigon exist too, even Meow being the most used mon in Series 1. There are tons of better VGC Darks over Weaville so like it isnt the leopard's fault Weavile is doodoo, it always had been.
worth noting that people experimented with Sneasel over Weavile in SWSH pretty much exclusively because Sneasel has Inner Focus and Weavile doesn’t
so not only is Weavile outclassed by Chien-Pao, it’s arguably outclassed by its younger sibling too.
The reverse of this would be interesting. Stuff like magmar, clefairy, and incineroar to name a few.
Can you make a video on mons that are carried by their ability ?
Hot take I think Chien Pao is heavily carried by its ability in vgc,if it didn't have sword of ruin,it would never be used,a mon that is incredibly squishy and prone to intimidate,has no good utility outside of sword of ruin
Its ability sure makes it a lot better but it'd be played even without. Not as much but still
Court change could actually become useful if screens come back into the meta as they tend to do in restricted meta games, however then you need to run cinderace on a restricted metagame which.
Might not be the best
Can't wait for pokemon good in vgc but suck in singles, aka the incineroar video
I have run Weavile with Surf next to Weakness policy weak armor Armarouge. Not saying it's good but it is pretty funny online with a best of one format
Shout out to Mega Beedrill
next up Pokemon that are great in VGC but suck in singles "*incinaroar noises*"
i love weavile 😭😭😭is it at least good in singleplayer
to add on to the weavile section, weavile basically doesn't have an ability which would be something that could give weavile a niche, at least it has fake out, but there's a better dark type with fake out and also ive been seeing a decent amount of success with banded iron valiant in vgc, banded cc does like 80% to ogerpon and flutter mane drops to spirit break, it does need a lot of support which is why i pair it with booster speed flutter with icy wind to beat specs flutter, but yeah setting up isn't worth it much in vgc, it's why banded dnite is way better than d dance or s dance dnite, the immediate power is so useful and sometimes u cant get a turn to set up safely
Dragonite doesn't get swords dance but if it did it would grill OU
Singles should adopt open team sheets.
There are a couple exceptions to walls being terrible in vgc such as cosmic power eternatus and chansey with guard swap Shuckle being used more than never
One thing about Cinderace’s court change is that is also steals tailwind and screens. It’s probably not great, but can be very funny
It’s only ou because chien-pao is banned is false af, chien deserved the ban and Weavile has a amazing speed tier and got its tools back and the meta needed a fast ice type and Weavile always comes through to fill that.
imagine playing singles and having to deal with stall (this comment was made by the Little Cup Gang)
Just run Chien-Pao with Weavile as a partner = profit?
Funnily enough, Cinderace's Court Change can be used against a completely different type of setup.
If their Tornadus (or Suicune, etc.) uses Tailwind, you can court change it and give that effect to your team and remove it from theirs.
Still prolly not enough to validate its usage, but it is an interesting quirk.
Probably should have started with what VGC is
I think the weaville narrative is a bit overstated. Like yea, he is just worse Chien-Pao, but weaville also was without knock off or triple axel.
It is really funny how Weavile got trashed in favor of A Pokemon who is also equally as frail
Difference is that Chien-Pao is faster and can deal more damage due to its ability
can you make a power point about utility umbrella cause no matter how much vids i watch i still dont know what its about
hai
1:16 I love brick breaking chien pao down to dash the upper handing into sucker
court change can steal tailwind tho, which isn't enough to make it good, but it's a fun gimmik
1:23 slide is black
i know, it was because of the EWGF-sanctioned correction
lol @ the iron valiant and the team sheets comic
Then there’s Farigiraf 😂
Pour one out for weavile
this girl is sooo pretty
uMmM aCkUaLly, Weavile is a weasel.
I never understimate the single format whit banned pokemon.
I think that if many pokemon have to be banned for a balanced game that means that the whole format is wrong
No, it just means that the game is poorly balanced, which is a fact. Pokemon, competitively at least, is not balanced towards 6v6 singles; honestly, even vgc could barely be called balanced, but whenever they actually make something balanced, they balance it towards vgc. Plus, vgc also has banned pokemon, lmao (all the box art/similar powered legendaries + mythicals)
@@ruonai.4195 with regulation G coming around those legendaries only become restricted rather then completely banned
@doginpillows20 I know, but that is only for a limited period of time during a generation (and still only one per team) so they're effectively still banned in most VGC and BSS formats per gen
Semantically, they're not the same, and they're not implemented in the same either, but both are effectively still bans, which is my point really
Blissy is Badass.
Could've just titled this "why VGC is a superior format" 😅
Thankful every day I don't have to deal with the cheese factory that is singles
Not at all, I’m actually enjoying singles more than VGC lol
@@ElectricWindGirlFriend 😯 I'm glad singles works for y'all. I don't have the patience for that slow ass ruleset.
FIRST!!!!!!!!!
shhhhhhhh
nope you were second.
@@ElectricWindGirlFriend How? when i commented i saw no other comments, and when i scrolled through the comments no comment is older/ same age as my comment?
capple
:)
My favorite rhing ever is that they removed Triple Axle off Weavile just to make an even better Weavilw that didnt need it😊