@@ellendurkee5444 How -they were merely following clients instructions as per usual , they will deny knowledge of any IT faults -what is noticeable is that this firm only came about due to a merger with a US firm in 2017 and it is not one of the major law firms here -presumably the big firms would not touch it with a barge pole
The Post office has treated all their sub-postmasters like criminals from the very start of this huge problem. They were never interested in obtaining the real truth of the matter and neither it seems did their solicitors. For any law firm to think that earning 37.5 million pounds was ok, while the victims were being forced into bankruptcy daily. They were all forced to fight for much longer for recompense and justice, while it was good times for the law firm. It seems the only thing they cared about was delay tactics for as long as it took to grind them all down. Everyone of the people involved in going after the victims should be held accountable for their total cruelty, inhumanity and sheer incompetence. Judging by their testimonies now, they know nothing of what they actually did at the time and can never recall any pertinent facts that may assist the case. They are all still lying to save their own skins, truly disgusting and perjury.
it was still happening more victims kept in the dark by the post office are now comming forward.while the post office already new we new what they was up to still.
The legal system needs a reform. This fiasco has highlighted the problem that the party with the deepest pockets will most likely win. That’s not equitable justice for everyone at all.
It was heartwrenching when she described pleading guilty to something she knew she’d not done because if she went to jail she wouldn’t come out. I was so full of sympathy at her situation.
My fear in this is that they want to take away the Post Office, which is often the only source of cash. It is not the 'post office' that is the problem, it is the criminals in senior roles within that need to be criminally prosecuted, the morals in business and this country overhauled.
Look at the layers upon layers of staff, in a labyrinth of different departments that make up the Post Office and Royal Mail, only good for circulating memos but not for making a decision. For every one serving a till in a post office or delivering a letter, there must be about 20 others hidden away in expensive offices around Britain.
The fundamental issue with the justice system inn general is that big organisations get to spend what they want on the case. This is completely unfair, and certainly not justice. I think what should happen is that the two parties are required to agree a maximum spend at the start, after which either party found to be spending more than this without prior agreement will be treated as contempt of court. Then the two parties get to argue their case from an equal playing field. The big law companies would still have a place in the system, but only when both parties have a lot of money to spend.
Fine Womble Bond Dickinson ten times what they made and put them out of business, then put them in jail for many, many years. Nobody should ever use them ever again.
No honour, no integrity, no shame, the state of Britain's elite from parliament to civil service to industry. Proud of my country's past but totally ashamed and angry at its current state.
Immoral is not illegal, as any of these lawyers will tell you. If illegal, then they would have been investigated by the police. The inquiry has been set up to protect the lawyers.
The enquiry is run by lawyers judges and barristers. It will be interesting to see how far they expose the shocking role of their profession in this disgraceful scandal including the in house legal team at the PO . So far I get the impression that PO investigators are being challenged far more that the legal professionals who are actually there to run a fair justice system , follow up on all lines of enquiry and fair and proper disclosure. It’s so annoying that every step along the way the legal profession is profiting out of the saga - even now IMHO
That joint litigation group got an award of £58 million - but their own lawyers took the first £46 million of it - leaving £12 million for the 555 postmasters or £21k each. Then add the £37 million for this law firm defending the Post Office, then plus likely other firms, plus internal Post Office lawyers and staff - Well over £100 million all paid from OUR money.
Such plain commonsense from Wendy, she made several sensible observations on the behaviour of the so-called 'professionals' . "Defending the indefensible," absolutely right. She rightly expects actions by the Law Society & others who clearly were lacking in ethics. I would use the word 'amoral to describe their attitude to their work.
The government must immediately renationalise the Post Office and immediately set up the compensation scheme! They should also look at all the rich lawyers for perverting the course of justice. The PO senior management must be fired and prosecuted for their wrongdoing!
Post office and Lawyers are keeping it going and if it’s long enough the people involved could all die with no compensation and no convictions I hope the judges can see through this Scam So Sorry for all the Postmasters and Postmistress’s.
As an ex Royal Mail postman I can identify with the bullying culture within The Post Office hierarchy, management of both organisations cut from the same cloth
Everyone keeps saying wait for the end of the enquiry something will happen along the way and all those guilty will get off with a big bonus and the posts will have to pay for it
Well I never the Post Office is losing millions a year now telling us it may be a three day postal service, and considering the Postal situation those top managers who have completely ruined the Post Office and are completely and totally useless paid themselves huge bonuses in the region of £200.000 to £400.000 for failure in their jobs, now how does that make sense, you couldn't make it up. R.
i thought wombles were nice helpful furry creatures who did nice things and sang cheesy pop songs, it turns out that one of them is a shyster that covers up corporate failures at the expense of sub postmasters and the tax payers.
This fiasco will drag on for years and years more - with mainly the lawyers benefitting. As usual it is against the interests of lawyers on both sides, for an early closure. Lawyers on both sides rub their hands, when their clients want to dig their heels in.
Somebody should be charged (at least) with Manslaughter charges for the deaths of those who were driven to commited SUICIDE. But no one will because WE know their friends will look after them.....
Question in the postal scandal contract: Was remote access or covert access mentioned? If not, would this be a breach of contract? So if this is right, how many cases could be paid out? Giveing the more complex cases time needed? Question: Have the postal pensions ever been raided ?
If it all went back into the POL coffers it would have just looked like they were still a highly profitable company. It's the money gone out to CEO's as performance bonuses and the fees payed to Fujitsu and all the dubious lawyers involved that needs scrutinizing and repaying to those Postmasters, and their families that helped them out financially, that were effectively robbed of their savings and livelihoods.
Just to be clear No money went missing, the discrepancies were faults in the Horizon system.But the money that the post office with the support of the court and the threat of custodial sentences , backed up by the legal representaion that the victums were employing to act on their behalf, what a joke, made the postmasters / misstreses pay to post office, well than went on bonuses to Vennalls and her like.Utterly shameful, the postmaster/misstreses were kicked in the teeth again and again, even by those who were being paid to help them. Because they were all to scared to take on the PO. Thank God for Alan and Jo and the many many others who did not give up this fight. If they are looking to hand out any future Honors ,look no futher than those two courageous people.
people got to realise this is the norm in court .tory made sure we priced out of justice .how could the tory post office and there kind operate with out it.
Irwin Mitchell representing both parties in the same case (Post Office and Union CWU) and having access to police held info ? before tampering with court docs entrusted to Royal Mail to "lose" a summons in the post thereby ensuring undefended litigantion when seeking a custodial,,,,,,, Sheffield court Sept 10th 2004
Don't see how royal mail can commit to pay compensation, they have an operating loss of 364 million, numerous HMRC unpaid tax liabilities including possible windfall tax on the money received from postmasters who settled out of court and finally all senior executives bonuses they will receive this year hey they have to get their priorities right lol!
In all of these problems the Taxation that is paid to the government is never mentioned. What did the Post office do with this windfall money from prosecuted persons? So if all the legal firms paid Taxation then the government has received enough to provide compensation. But Compensation is a later year and as we know that Governments spend all they receive each year. So How much will ordinary Taxpayers pay towards the compensation. It can only come out of current tax receipts, borrowings. or Post Office profits. Either way many innocent people will pay either by taxation, less services from the government or higher Postal charges. All perpetrators of this scheme will keep their pensions. Did the post office and fat cats have any type of professional insurance. If so will all professionals pay by increased premiums to keep insurance companies solvent?
Shoddy tabloid journalism jumping on the bandwagon. The same tabloid journalism that vilified the postmasters for "stealing from pensioners" only a few years ago. But I'm glad that at least this is keeping the story alive. Some lawyers crow about their part in this tragedy.
Yes its not about doing the right thing morally its not about the law . Its about how much money the lawyers can make out of any given situation. And my god they can charge like a wounded rhino.
Don't think immoral even comes into it, it's illegal or lawful. The courts don't care about emotions, only if you win will victim impact statements be presented. You have to keep emotion out of proceedings and wait to have your day for that. Its unfair, but that's how it goes unfortunately
Lol what rubbish journalism. £38 million is the grand total of every single piece of work done over 10 years. Doesn't seem even surprising for company with a market cap in the billions. No breakdown of how much of that was for Horizon litigation. And even if there was a breakdown, at the time the lawyers did what they believed was right. Blame the company responsible for the errors, not the lawyers who were acting in good faith based on what they were told by their client. Blame post office mainly
Obscene is not the word to describe these people or situations. Evil is the word
Law firm should be prosecuted right now.
I understand they may be.
@@ellendurkee5444 How -they were merely following clients instructions as per usual , they will deny knowledge of any IT faults -what is noticeable is that this firm only came about due to a merger with a US firm in 2017 and it is not one of the major law firms here -presumably the big firms would not touch it with a barge pole
The Post office has treated all their sub-postmasters like criminals from the very start of this huge problem. They were never interested in obtaining the real truth of the matter and neither it seems did their solicitors. For any law firm to think that earning 37.5 million pounds was ok, while the victims were being forced into bankruptcy daily. They were all forced to fight for much longer for recompense and justice, while it was good times for the law firm. It seems the only thing they cared about was delay tactics for as long as it took to grind them all down. Everyone of the people involved in going after the victims should be held accountable for their total cruelty, inhumanity and sheer incompetence. Judging by their testimonies now, they know nothing of what they actually did at the time and can never recall any pertinent facts that may assist the case. They are all still lying to save their own skins, truly disgusting and perjury.
Absolutely, well said.
it was still happening more victims kept in the dark by the post office are now comming forward.while the post office already new we new what they was up to still.
It just beggars belief! They all need to go to jail !
The legal system needs a reform. This fiasco has highlighted the problem that the party with the deepest pockets will most likely win. That’s not equitable justice for everyone at all.
Will gladly pay lawyers millions but will drag their feet over paying compensation to wrongly accused victims.
aint that true
Owed money and some, the word compensations isn’t what they should call it.
@@vickydimitriou6156 Yes, true - refunding proceeds of crime; that which they have stolen along with non pecuniary damages
It was heartwrenching when she described pleading guilty to something she knew she’d not done because if she went to jail she wouldn’t come out. I was so full of sympathy at her situation.
What is worse, the lack of justice, or the price of justice ?
My fear in this is that they want to take away the Post Office, which is often the only source of cash. It is not the 'post office' that is the problem, it is the criminals in senior roles within that need to be criminally prosecuted, the morals in business and this country overhauled.
This Law Firm should be disbarred.
A danger to judicial justice.
This company should be sued and their lawyers taken to court for abuse of their position ! Absolutely abhorrent !!
Look at the layers upon layers of staff, in a labyrinth of different departments that make up the Post Office and Royal Mail, only good for circulating memos but not for making a decision.
For every one serving a till in a post office or delivering a letter, there must be about 20 others hidden away in expensive offices around Britain.
That’s the reason ordinary people are fed up !!!!
Give the money to the affected!!!
Wake up Brit’s don’t let them fool you !!!!
Seems they need criminal charges against them and prison time, not a slap on the wrist for the Law Society
The fundamental issue with the justice system inn general is that big organisations get to spend what they want on the case. This is completely unfair, and certainly not justice. I think what should happen is that the two parties are required to agree a maximum spend at the start, after which either party found to be spending more than this without prior agreement will be treated as contempt of court. Then the two parties get to argue their case from an equal playing field. The big law companies would still have a place in the system, but only when both parties have a lot of money to spend.
The lawyers , bosses , politicians must pay now !!!!!
Reinstatement of their pensions
Compensation
1 Million up front until the rest is settled !
Fine Womble Bond Dickinson ten times what they made and put them out of business, then put them in jail for many, many years. Nobody should ever use them ever again.
"we have great sympathy" while sipping champagne on their yacht maybe
No honour, no integrity, no shame, the state of Britain's elite from parliament to civil service to industry. Proud of my country's past but totally ashamed and angry at its current state.
So well said.
How dignified was this lady after what she has been through! The strength she has is immense. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Immoral is not illegal, as any of these lawyers will tell you. If illegal, then they would have been investigated by the police. The inquiry has been set up to protect the lawyers.
My god this debacle only gets worse, none seem to want to take responsibility for their actions, can’t remember throw others under the bus, deny deny😡
The enquiry is run by lawyers judges and barristers. It will be interesting to see how far they expose the shocking role of their profession in this disgraceful scandal including the in house legal team at the PO . So far I get the impression that PO investigators are being challenged far more that the legal professionals who are actually there to run a fair justice system , follow up on all lines of enquiry and fair and proper disclosure. It’s so annoying that every step along the way the legal profession is profiting out of the saga - even now IMHO
That joint litigation group got an award of £58 million - but their own lawyers took the first £46 million of it - leaving £12 million for the 555 postmasters or £21k each.
Then add the £37 million for this law firm defending the Post Office, then plus likely other firms, plus internal Post Office lawyers and staff - Well over £100 million all paid from OUR money.
That was the only way the postmasters could take legal action as the government has cut all legal aid
Such plain commonsense from Wendy, she made several sensible observations on the behaviour of the so-called 'professionals' . "Defending the indefensible," absolutely right.
She rightly expects actions by the Law Society & others who clearly were lacking in ethics. I would use the word 'amoral to describe their attitude to their work.
The government must immediately renationalise the Post Office and immediately set up the compensation scheme! They should also look at all the rich lawyers for perverting the course of justice. The PO senior management must be fired and prosecuted for their wrongdoing!
Over ground, underground thanks for the fee
Mad. All this to protect a computer system!!
They cannot get away this. All who knew and lied,lied lied including the llawyers need prosecuting.
What is going to happen to the people who caused all this misery??? Nothing will
Post office and Lawyers are keeping it going and if it’s long enough the people involved could all die with no compensation and no convictions I hope the judges can see through this Scam So Sorry for all the Postmasters and Postmistress’s.
As an ex Royal Mail postman I can identify with the bullying culture within The Post Office hierarchy, management of both organisations cut from the same cloth
Everyone keeps saying wait for the end of the enquiry something will happen along the way and all those guilty will get off with a big bonus and the posts will have to pay for it
Well I never the Post Office is losing millions a year now telling us it may be a three day postal service, and considering the Postal situation those top managers who have completely ruined the Post Office and are completely and totally useless paid themselves huge bonuses in the region of £200.000 to £400.000 for failure in their jobs, now how does that make sense, you couldn't make it up. R.
The three day proposal is for the "Royal Mail" not the post office, the two have been separate entities for some years.
Law firms involved, should receive free advertising, then we can see how long they continue to practice! 👺
i thought wombles were nice helpful furry creatures who did nice things and sang cheesy pop songs, it turns out that one of them is a shyster that covers up corporate failures at the expense of sub postmasters and the tax payers.
Stay strong Wendy !!!
This fiasco will drag on for years and years more - with mainly the lawyers benefitting.
As usual it is against the interests of lawyers on both sides, for an early closure.
Lawyers on both sides rub their hands, when their clients want to dig their heels in.
I want to hear the SPM, not "the how cleaver am I" presenter.
Who is protecting Vennells and cohorts?? The Post Office has too much power. Too little Professional Ethics.
Seriously?
"An exclusive investigation by this channel" ???
😆😂🤣😅
Somebody should be charged (at least) with Manslaughter charges for the deaths of those who were driven to commited SUICIDE. But no one will because WE know their friends will look after them.....
Question in the postal scandal contract: Was remote access or covert access mentioned? If not, would this be a breach of contract? So if this is right, how many cases could be paid out? Giveing the more complex cases time needed? Question: Have the postal pensions ever been raided ?
So where did all that money go that went missing? Someone must have it but WHO?
Missing money? The Horizon system was adding 00s when post masters were adding accounts and then accusing victims of being 00s short
If it all went back into the POL coffers it would have just looked like they were still a highly profitable company. It's the money gone out to CEO's as performance bonuses and the fees payed to Fujitsu and all the dubious lawyers involved that needs scrutinizing and repaying to those Postmasters, and their families that helped them out financially, that were effectively robbed of their savings and livelihoods.
Senior management bonuses and increased salaries, as we all realise failure pays and pays well. R.
Just to be clear No money went missing, the discrepancies were faults in the Horizon system.But the money that the post office with the support of the court and the threat of custodial sentences , backed up by the legal representaion that the victums were employing to act on their behalf, what a joke, made the postmasters / misstreses pay to post office, well than went on bonuses to Vennalls and her like.Utterly shameful, the postmaster/misstreses were kicked in the teeth again and again, even by those who were being paid to help them. Because they were all to scared to take on the PO. Thank God for Alan and Jo and the many many others who did not give up this fight. If they are looking to hand out any future Honors ,look no futher than those two courageous people.
people got to realise this is the norm in court .tory made sure we priced out of justice .how could the tory post office and there kind operate with out it.
YOU ARE BEING MISLEADING. THE POST OFFICE AND ROYAL MAIL ARE NOT THE SAME ORGANISATION……….
Irwin Mitchell representing both parties in the same case (Post Office and Union CWU) and having access to police held info ? before tampering with court docs entrusted to Royal Mail to "lose" a summons in the post thereby ensuring undefended litigantion when seeking a custodial,,,,,,, Sheffield court Sept 10th 2004
Don't see how royal mail can commit to pay compensation, they have an operating loss of 364 million, numerous HMRC unpaid tax liabilities including possible windfall tax on the money received from postmasters who settled out of court and finally all senior executives bonuses they will receive this year hey they have to get their priorities right lol!
Are they going to give Mr CasteLuton the £300,000 that was added to his supposed £34,000 debt🥶🥶🥶🇬🇸
In all of these problems the Taxation that is paid to the government is never mentioned. What did the Post office do with this windfall money from prosecuted persons? So if all the legal firms paid Taxation then the government has received enough to provide compensation. But Compensation is a later year and as we know that Governments spend all they receive each year. So How much will ordinary Taxpayers pay towards the compensation. It can only come out of current tax receipts, borrowings. or Post Office profits. Either way many innocent people will pay either by taxation, less services from the government or higher Postal charges. All perpetrators of this scheme will keep their pensions. Did the post office and fat cats have any type of professional insurance. If so will all professionals pay by increased premiums to keep insurance companies solvent?
A lot of people are going to be going to prison and the sooner the better.
Disgusting!!
Speaking generally, Lawyers are slime balls
Shoddy tabloid journalism jumping on the bandwagon. The same tabloid journalism that vilified the postmasters for "stealing from pensioners" only a few years ago. But I'm glad that at least this is keeping the story alive. Some lawyers crow about their part in this tragedy.
Yes its not about doing the right thing morally its not about the law . Its about how much money the lawyers can make out of any given situation. And my god they can charge like a wounded rhino.
Disgusting.
Don't think immoral even comes into it, it's illegal or lawful. The courts don't care about emotions, only if you win will victim impact statements be presented. You have to keep emotion out of proceedings and wait to have your day for that. Its unfair, but that's how it goes unfortunately
look to the action of Lord Neuberger!
Good luck Wendy……….
Lol what rubbish journalism. £38 million is the grand total of every single piece of work done over 10 years. Doesn't seem even surprising for company with a market cap in the billions. No breakdown of how much of that was for Horizon litigation. And even if there was a breakdown, at the time the lawyers did what they believed was right. Blame the company responsible for the errors, not the lawyers who were acting in good faith based on what they were told by their client. Blame post office mainly
it bee a whitewash