2009 Porsche Cayman S (987.2 vs. 987.1) - POV Driving Impressions
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- Today Substitute Topher discusses the differences between the 987.2 and 987.1 Cayman S! Thanks to kauthmayeur.com/
MPG: 19 city / 26 highway
Horsepower: 320 hp @ 7,200 rpm
Engine: 3.4 L 6-cylinder
Curb weight: 2,976 lbs
Seating capacity: 2
Transmission: 6-speed manual
Dimensions: 172″ L x 71″ W x 51″ H
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Porsches are really growing on me, they just sound amazing and just look like so much fun.
Another major difference (even bigger than IMS, imo) is the 987.2 does not appear to suffer from the known bore scoring issues of the 987.1.
Actually, that's not entirely true. The 3.4L on the 987.2 S are known, though extremely rare, for bore scoring. The only safe one from any of the issues, and the most reliable, is the 2.9L on the base 987.2.
Agreed. That's a better way of putting it. Issues are far less likely on the 987.2 S. While the 987.1 S seems to be more of a "not if, but when" scenario. It could happen at 30k miles or 200k miles. There are a lot of factors involved such as climate, driving style, maintenance, etc. But the fundamental flaw is with the lokasil coating @@seanysyang
Yeah bore scoring is a scarier problem than the IMS imo. You can fix IMS preemptively with a few thousand $, there's no way to fix bore scoring without a rebuild. And rebuilding these flat 6 engines is super expensive.
This needs to be a pinned comment. It's frustrating to hear 987.1 people say "the IMS isn't a problem anymore so you're good!" Like no, bore scoring is way more important. There's no way to avoid it in terms of maintenance, and it applies to all M97 engines because of a sup-par material used for the cylinder sleeves. They cheaped out on these engines because they were developed for the 986/996, and there's a reason the turbo and GT3 motors use a different sleeve material.
The few people I've seen had paid around 15-20k for the rebuild, which is obviously a lot of money. But that vs paying 15k more for a .2 might not be a terrible option as you're essentially getting a new engine. @@T8T-
I prefer the Cayman platform over the 911 platform also. I like the size and proportions more.
I have 2009 manual Cayman S. If you’re looking for one I recommend getting one with sports Chrono. Push that sport button and the throttle goes from responsive to razor sharp. I agree it’s an amazing car, if you’ve not experienced one I highly recommend. I previously owned a base 2.9 987.2 and that’s a fantastic car too. Absolutely peak Porsche experience to be had for a reasonable price. Love these cars.
987.1 Cayman is a blast to drive and to own. The steering is simply the best there is. Also the original hips are the most attractive. I am totally unconcerned with IMS and if bore scoring were to happen I will simply deal with it and continue enjoying it. Of course the 987.2 is highly desirable too especially the R which has its own suspension setup I’d love to test drive someday. So yeah I prefer the Caymans to the 911 as well. Lightweight and solid. Mine has been very reliable for the 4 years I’ve had her. I enjoy driving it as much as my 718 GTS so considering the price point of the 987.1 I would expect them to hold their value indefinitely.
Im with him on liking the cayman more than the 911. This is a proper sports car. Just has the proper amount of everything. Handles like a dream. Enough useable power. It looks fantastic. Its fairly rare vehicle especially the .2 version. I was contemplating switching to a 911 but having driven both cars back to back 987.2 hands down won my heart
I agree that the older machines often have a bit better "feel". While modern models often have have better grip, power, braking, etc, they often are more isolated from the road.
I agree on Cayman vs 911. I had a 987.1 base Boxster, traded it in on a 991.2 cab. Way faster but the Boxster was more fun and sounded better. Now I want to get a 987 Cayman to complement the 911!
Hopefully we can get you guys one of our K24 Turbo swapped Cayman's to review next year ;)
ooooh yes please!!
Why
@@Gooftroop2756 Why K-swap an M97 car? Here's some reasons:
1. The M97 blows up on track no matter how many thousands you spend on oiling mods - also IMS and bore scoring
2. The M97 costs ~$12-14K to replace, a K24 costs $500
3. The K-Swap kit can drop nearly 150 lbs
4. Turbocharged K24's make 500whp easy and reliably - a feat that is extremely costly and reliability would still be a concern with the M97
5. In Cayman form you gain shorter gearing and the factory LSD, which 987.1 Caymans did not have (they are all open diff)
That's just a few reasons.
@@Gooftroop2756 TF kind of dumb question is that
@williamrori1274 I would love to see content on a K24 Cayman!
As for the difference in price from the .1 to .2, spend $10k more up front. You won't be dreading "is this the day I get a $15,000 motor rebuild?", and you'll get all that $10k premium back (probably more) if you sell the car some day. And in the meantime you get to enjoy 10% more power and some other niceties too.
I picked up my 987.2 2.9 in 6MT recently, best decision of my life! Thanks for posting the video, had a little comparison to my own car :).
I found one with 29k euros. Is it worth it? It has 155k km and cooled seats
The 987.2's also cost more because of PDK, and the number of units in manual is much lower. In fact the total number of 987.2 units is much less than 987.1, so that also helps to drive the price up. There just aren't enough to go around. And when they really heat up in the next few years, all bets are off. I've had a Lotus Elise as well as many other similar cars and the 987.2 S is the BEST compromise for a raw feeling city/canyon car that wont beat you up on the road. It just has the best balance of everything. Plus, great storage for a 2 seat sports car (frunk and hatch), with excellent reliability from the new engine, coupled to a slick shifting transmission. You really cant go wrong with these!
When I got my 987.2 S I swore I wouldn't get attached to it and would use it as a stepping stone into another Porsche, probably a 911. Seven years later and at 90k miles (bought with 55k) I'm inclined to keep it forever. It's a very special car that was built at just the right time -- perfect amount of technology, extremely reliable, and great connection to the road. It's also a convenient daily driver for the reasons you listed and the styling is a bit more timeless than the 981. I see these as future classics -- the chances of significant depreciation are slim. It's a wonderfully designed car. The only issue is lack of aftermarket support for customization, but that's a small thing in the grand scheme.
Well said. I couldn’t agree more. While cross shopping, I managed to stagger two test drives, the 997.2S and the 987.2S. 987.2S is the one I drove home. Having only put around 3k miles since purchase, this has reserved a permanent spot in my garage. Always uplifting to hear great things about this car
@@goddyneil That's exactly how I did it -- 997 first, then tried a Cayman. The correct choice was obvious. We're a fairly small ownership group, wish there was a bit more of a formal community around the 987.2.
IMS is NOT the problem with a 987.1 Cayman. They all have the final big bearing which rarely fails. The problem with the .1 is bore scoring on the 3.4, which is running at epidemic levels.
Correct, plus you cant just "do an IMS job" on these later generation m96/m97 cars without disassembling the engine which would make zero sense
STOP STOP we have to keep 987.1 prices down
"epidemic levels". Care to give a percentage with some type of proof, friend?
@@barronstankus6220 If you don't agree and think it's a small proportion, care to give a percentage with some type of proof, friend? It works both ways. The reality is that anyone who has a lot of contact with M97 3.4+ cars and understands the issues with how the engines were engineered knows that the failure rate is extremely high. At least 30% of M97 3.4+ engines with any significant mileage on them have already failed with scoring. If you pulled a random sample of currently running cars with, say, at least 30k miles on the clock and tore down the engines, you'd find roughly a third had already been repaired, a third had at least some scoring and piston skirt damage that would need attention in the next 0-20k miles (scoring is not binary, it can take a long time to fully progress) and a third were OK but still had at least some signs of the piston skirt coating on cylinder five or six beginning to break down (which is the first stage of the process before cylinder scoring become apparent). You wouldn't find any with no signs at all that something was beginning to go wrong on cylinder five or six. You do get some people saying "it's only 5%" or something along those lines. Invariably, those people haven't got a clue what they are talking about.
I went with a new GR86 instead of a preowned Cayman. Cost would have been sort of-ish the same, but the daunting reality of having to repair something (or several things given time/luck) on a 14+ year old Porsche was prohibitive. For me anyway.
interesting because i’m in the same situation, used cayman or new gr86, what scares me is maintenance on these things
The handling of 987.2 is a dream
@@msyedx I was leaning toward Cayman for a while, to be honest. They're wonderful. But I read that an owner replaced a clutch and it was around $3,500 - and that was TEN years ago. Imagine today. I even thought about getting a much newer used Cayman, but then you start getting into high $40K and into $50K and that's for base models.
In the end, I got the manual GR86 (10th Anniversary edition) and it's plenty fast for the street, SO much fun and gets compliments CONSTANTLY. And...it's a Toyota. I no longer have repair/maintenance cost worries.
@@yeedub The handling of a GR86 with upgrades can also be a dream, though.. and there's not the worry of high maintenance prices if something (I should say _when_ something) goes wrong on a car this age, compared to something new. Another thing is the aftermarket support. I assume there isn't a ton for the Porsche, while there is for the GR.
@@marcpasquinelli2548 Just make sure you change the oil pan/pickup tube if you ever plan on taking high G turns or going on a track. Oil starvation can happen on Boxer engines due to how the baffles are. Oil can go to one side of the engine during high G turns. And obviously, check the RTV sealant issue, while you're in there but the starvation thing really shouldn't be an issue on the street.
If reliability is what you after, 987.1 only get the base model 2.7. You won't have bore scoring issue.
If you really want the S model you have to get the 987.2 as bore scoring issues are almost zero
The 2.7 had more parent matter remaining in the cylinder liners due to smaller bores and were stressed less. They also have cast pistons which are thermally better with the material used in the cases.
987.2 is a goat
yes
It takes a goat to know a goat.
Love the design of the 987.2, so subtle but makes such a big difference especially in the right spec! I currently have a 987.2 Boxster S Black Edition but would love a Peridot Green Cayman R ;))
I have a 987.2 Peridot Cayman S in manual w/ sport chrono...a true unicorn! Beauty of a color.
Same I have a black edition Cayman 987.2 S manual but I also want a peridot R
The 987 is beautifully analog. There is no other way to put it. I’ve driven Ferraris, 911 turbos, but they don’t take the place of the cayman. That’s what makes it a great car. It will get more collectible in years to come due to their straightforwardness, finesse, and simplicity…compared to some very chintzy spec 911s.
987.1 base for me and love it. Easy to work on.
I also prefer Caymans since in a way they're originally what the 911 was always supposed to be, small and nimble. I'm not a big fan of the post 997 911's.
I have owned a 987.1 2008 Cayman S MT 6speed with ECU tune for over 10 years.. I was about to purchase a 2011 987.2 Boxster Spyder MT 6 speed with 320 hp. Honestly, I walked away because I could not feel any difference in power, in fact, the Spyder did not have sport mode and actually felt sluggish in the lower rpm's compared to my 2008 CS with sport mode. I know sport mode would have made a nice difference on the Spyder, but I was still not impressed and did not feel it was worth double the price. Bragging rights... sure, but smiles per miles... no way. The 987.1 IMS bearing/bore scoring argument is tired and just not as common as the internets fear mongering portrays. We are talking 1 percent. If you are going to talk about the 987.1 engines issues, then please be fair and discuss the 987.2 engine and transmission issues. 987.2 pdk's are beginning to have lots of failures that can cost up to $18k to fix. 987.2 Engines have High pressure fuel pump failures, High pressure fuel injector failures, 997.2 Bore scoring in cold climates, PDK failures and software issues, Long term effects of Direct fuel injection and high pressure fuel spray against cylinder walls and valves, Carbon build up on valves from DFI system. Just seems strange that car reviewers want to focus on one cars issue over another. I am a huge Porsche Enthusiast and owner and I have driven over 400,000 miles in various Porsches with no problems or issues mechanically. Stop worrying so much about the internet fear mongering, get yourself a nice condition, used Porsche, and get out and drive. Owning a Porsche is like taking the RED PILL of the car world. You will never look at other cars the same way again.
Great video, I've wondered about many of the things that you've answered in this video. I'm going to go drive my 987.1 now.
If you do an IMS for 987.1. You’ll need to rebuild engine. It’s the 3rd gen IMS and because of its larger diameter, you cannot access it. It’s inside the shaft. Basically Porsche has corrected the IMS issues and put a “Do Not Touch” label.
I like Caymans over 911s too, i think Porsche makes great cars period.
Oh, and you can't "do the IMS" on a 987.1 Cayman. They all have the big bearing which means to remove the bearing, you have to remove the engine and split the crank case. Not that you'd want to because the final big bearing is very reliable and hardly ever fails.
Not come across your video’s before, great video
We need a 987.2 vs 981 comparison!
It's the same motor. Here's the comparison: 987.2 has hydraulic steering for better feel. 981 has a nicer interior. Aesthetics are purely objective. If you don't have a styling preference and all else being equal, go with a 981 for a tad more luxury and the 987.2 if you value ultimate driver's feel.
I agree for the most part. I've owned both, and the 987 absolutely has the better steering feel. With that said, the 981 chassis is far superior. It's 40-50% stiffer while also being lighter due to a more aluminum. Also, the 981 sounds much better to my ears. I believe it has something to do with the dual intake setup . @@plus790 Both are great
@@plus790 The hydraulic steering makes a noticeable difference and was one reason I went with the 987.2. The interior of the 987.2 is fine and of better quality than the 981 -- those have issues with the headliner sagging and the door cards delaminating.
Love this car ! I agree ! I have a 2011 S with a manual 45k miles. Black with black Spyder wheels , the sport design package and the locking diff
LOL! "This is substitute Tropher" Whatever. You're a bad ass. Great review/comparison!!
Topher reading my mind. I've been on the fence on getting a 987 these past few weeks.
Still have my 987.1 2.7 Cayman 245 HP from 2.2008 over 200.000 km now 15 years one of the best Porsches I ever owned no issues whatsoever and it’s definitely the best design Porsche has ever made never will sell this one !
Wow just looked these up, prices really shot up in the past 6 months. Bummer.
Yeah... because of videos just like this one, probably. There really werent many made of the second gen, that was during a rough recession
987.2 is the perfect Porsche for me. Analogue and no issues to worry about like the 987.1. Legendary car.
Wow, now I'm stuck xD
I've been looking for a new car for the past 12 months, I'd replace my first car, a 2012 Mercedes-Benz B Class, and I can't choose between a 2010 Porsche Cayman S Manual and a 2017 Mercedes-AMG CLA45. I guess it will come down to trying out both and feeling which one I like more.
987.1 received 3rd Gen IMS. It’s a large diameter which is located inside the shaft. So it’s a do not touch by Porsche. Bore scoring is common for 987.1 and 987.2 still suffers it too. Fuel injection does not correct gravity on flat six. It just takes time ie. over 100,000kms.
You and Every Day Driver have me thinking about a Cayman after my BRZ. I’ll be on autotempest for the next two hours lol.
Just get the cayman. There’s no substitute. Enjoy the journey that leads you to it! It’s fun!
Conclusion is if you can afford the .2, get the .2.
And if you can find a decent one. Much more rare on the market, especially these days.
I have a 2010 Cayman S 987.2 and the only thing I wanted that I couldn't get, was the 3.8 like the 911 GTS had at the time.
Hard agree with you. 987 Cayman is the best looking, the newer versions got more robust and lost the curves that made the og iconic. Hoping I can get one of these one day.
"One of the biggest attractions of a Cayman is that you get two boots!" LOL...no. If you think that is the biggest attraction of a Cayman, you've completely lost the plot.
You have a head mounted camera or a chest mounted camer .... I think a lot of people love a camera setup video..❤
Needs the sport plus pack and stop watch to finish it off
Is the 987 reliable? Any service headaches compared to average cars?
You need to realize there's two different cars in the "987" generation. The 987.2 is VERY reliable on the street and on the track. The 987.1's can be okay as far as reliability on the street but are absolute timebombs on the track. 987.1 = 2006-2008, 987.2 = 2009-2012.
My 987.1 has been extremely reliable. Back when these cars came out, the top reliable cars in the world went number 1 Toyota and number 2 Porsche.
Look at the taillights about 10ft back on the .2, I see Gator Eyes!
Car looks cool
Too bad you gotta go up to GTS to get Flat-6 for 718. That's too close to 911 pricing. If I want a 6-cylinder Porsche, what would you recommend? 718 GTS or 992 Carerra?
987.2 lol. The analog steering is the driving factor over the newer cars with electric power steering where the computer is driving the car.
I live not too far from Peoria if you ever need a base 981 pdk to review!
That was a great review, well done!
isnt it a bad decision to buy an old car like this because of the high maintenance cost and relieablity issues? dont get me wrong i agree this is peak cayman and i fkn love it personally!
Not really , but I wouldn’t use it as a daily driver. The 987.2 is reliable
While these are relatively reliable, I do think the people ought to keep in mind that all older cars will need work at some point, and porsches are not cheap to maintain. These ain't Hondas.
Definitely wouldnt get one as an only car.
2:00 How reliable are these past 150k miles generally?
6:00 Updates
13:50 Ride
16:00 Mid engine Cayman > Rear engine 911
19:00 Next should review a 2013 Cayman S, arguably the BEST generation
thought this was a helpful summary but you are making stuff up.
If I had one of these, it would be as loud as a GT3 Carrera Cup car
How much is the insurance for your 987.1?
It's somewhere around $200/month
My ‘1q .2 is around 95$ through hagerty. But you need to have a DD to get this insurance
Those engines apart from 6 cylinders have nothing in common, your description doesn't do its justice.
Lmao watching you drive these roads reminds me of when I lived in the Chicago outskirts. Boring straight two lane roads lol. Not good roads for this exquisite vehicle
İm in live with porsche since 6 years old
POS Rustang ruining the review lol I have been looking for 987.2 for awhile hard to find, I would love to own one someday
Where is the Audi TD
It's DOT 2 😊
Nice
987.2 is a great car, and yet that one does nothing for me.
Not sure why, just a bland example.
How can I increase the subscriber count of my youtube channel?
You already have 2 thousand subscribers…
@@brq44 It's prob a bot account. 2K isn't much, especially when the videos aren't getting many clicks. That's another sign of a bot account or purchased subscribers etc.
@@hhaste Probably, true.
Beautiful car but unfortunately the engine is made out of paper absolutely crap I had a .1 that suffered with bore score n .2’s are starting to as well there’s no getting away with it
It’s a shame u complete forgot the most common issue with the 987.1 which is the bore scoring issue. Seems u didn’t do enough research on your car😂😂😂
The inside joke among 987.2 owners is that their cars are also known as the 988. The number of upgrades it received over the 987.1 justified a new model number.