Hi guys. He said the 'scum' comment on more than one occasion. In 1813 and again in 1831. Only in 1831 did he add the extra line "it really Is wonderful that we should have made them the fine fellows they are.” In 1813 - angered by their plundering after Vitoria he was much less forgiving. So please read this before commenting that the quote is wrong or taken out of context. Thanks.
Hi.. you mentioned in the opening comments that 'they certainly enjoyed a drink' but, whether they knew it or not, isn't it the case that during this period drinking alcohol, whether it be wine, gin, rum, beer etc. was actually safer than the often germ ridden water? Also wasn't drinking alcohol more the norm of the time? Criminals not making good soldiers; doesn't that depend on whether they were part of a criminal gang? If they were they'd be used to orders albeit having a bit more leeway to argue.
Well said, also you have to rate people by the standard of their times and in the early 19th century and the previous 18th century the British soldiers were not considered "bad" soldiers by their peers. In the 13 Colonies before and during the Revolution the American Colonists biggest complaint about the Redcoats was that they drank way too much. The Colonists were mostly first and second generation British.
“Didn’t know they were beaten” seems to be a theme for the Brits: so many times they’ve appeared to be on the verge of total defeat and pulled a victory from nowhere
Stubborn refusal to bow to the inevitable is very much a British tradition. They say the English are too proud to realise they are beaten, the Welsh are too ignorant to realise they are beaten and as long as the others are standing and dying no bloody Scot is going to be put to shame by the other nations. It must have been frustrating for many generals that took on the redcoats.
When they took on Andrew Jackson, they knew they were beaten - The Duke brother in law was shot dead in the battle of New Orleans. The casulties ratio close to 100:1 in dead.
My great great grandfather fought beside old nosey at Waterloo with the 27th Innskillings, my Grandfather fought at the Somme ( and other Battles) with 11th Battalion the Royal Irish Rifles , my father land with the Royal Ulster Rifles on D Day and took part in crossing of the Rhine, I serve with Royal Irish Ranger/ Regiment for 22 year and served in a number of theatres. All of them were god fearing sober family men of the highest integrity, hard as nails however. Thank you for putting the record straight.
Yes the 27th took the worst casualties of any British regiment at Waterloo but stood their ground commanded by the sergeants when all the officers bar a Major were killed or wounded. He admitted they saved his line that day.
Have you ever wondered why so many Pubs bore the name " The Duke of Wellington"? I could tell you, but it is worth looking up for yourselfn I think you will like it,
Not just in the mess kit, we, the ‘Brigade of Guards’ still wear the red coat regularly. With pride I might add. The Scarlett colour was procured for the British Army back in the day as it was the cheapest on offer. Nothing much has changed since then I’d say!
@@michealrcnicholson9342 I think the scarlet was just for officers, at least at first. For the first 200 years the enlisted wore madder red until 1873.
For the offspring of Irish tenants/labourers living as serfs on lands stolen from them generations before, getting paid for foreign service would certainly be appealing. Likewise with their English and Scots counterparts. If faced with them I would "Fág an Bealach" too!
Drivel! My family connection goes back through the ONeill’s and Macarthy Morrogh’s and the Dalriada , none were surfs , all were land owners and still are, you could probably trace that DNA to before the Romans . What distorted republican nonsense you write. Nothing was stolen from us.
British soldiers were a collection of men from all the British Isles including Ireland, fierce and resilient when well lead. If my back was to the wall They are who I'd want alongside, from any period in history.
The Irish only joined the British army in numbers when the british government finally eased is repressive anti Catholic laws. Up to a third of wellingtons army at Waterloo were reported to have been Irish
@@wolfthequarrelsome504 unfortunate how religion has to rear its ugly head, my comments are only regarding the Men who served. No doubt there were a fair proportion of Irish Men at Waterloo alongside the rest of the UK, the relevant part for me is Together. Cheers.
@@HD-dz4uk When you bring up Ireland during this time it's bound to come up. Irish history was never even mentioned once in my history class and then people are perplexed why they don't seem to like us. It's important to note while we're patting ourselves on the back for beating Napoleon there's a whole other dark side of our past happening in Ireland. The film Black 47 takes place a few decades later but still recommend as it gives a good sense of what living under British rule might have felt like and it's also just a good time
@@stevesmith2171 Facts are Facts, I certainly wouldn't deny that, one problem arises though. People tend to use Facts to enhance their arguments, while denying others that go against. My simple statement on having British and Irish troops alongside me, starts to get a bit weird and political. Not really where I was going but cheers for the input.
Another thing on height: years ago I had the opportunity to look at 18th c military records at Kew. The muster rolls had heights listed. A lot of them clustered around 5’-6”. There was one muster roll for an American loyalist regiment; all men born and raised in the colonies. Their heights clustered around 5’-9” and even higher. There were a number of six footers. Tories/Loyalists in the colonies tended to be more prosperous, but there was also more land for agriculture, and more varied food available, especially in New York State, where a lot of loyalists came from.
Oh, and in the attestation papers of early 19th c recruits the occupation answers were monotonous. “Farm laborer” and “Day laborer” or just “laborer” were almost universal. They were men with no property, no special skills, and no prospects.
A similar increase in stature seems to have happened in early colonial Australia. Probably Darwinian evolution as a result of avoiding the Drop Bears. 😉
On the height issue, Wellington was 5'9" and considered tall in his time. Of course, he was the son of Lord Mornington and thus, we can very safely assume, never went hungry during the critical childhood/growing years. Anyone 6' or over was considered a "giant" (probably the equivalent of, what, 6'6" and above these days).
@@redcoathistory I'm 5ft61/2, when I was 16 in the 70s the teacher lined us up for something and there were only 2 lads taller than me in my class (I was the norm), and while there were some late developers, being 5ft 9 and over was freakishly rare in my experience. Nowadays, I encounter on the streets little kids who are taller than me, and 'beanpoles' of 6ft almost seem the norm for 18 year olds. Football teams used to have a variety of heights from Nobby Stiles or Billy Bremner to a Jack Charlton or larry Lloyd, with the average being a Dennis Law or Bobby Charlton at 5ft 9, now 6ft appears to be standard with very little variety. Is that selection or have people just got taller since the 70s?
@@redcoathistory HaHa, speak for yourself mate. I remember not having to stoop on the middle and lower gundecks of HMS Victory. Then again always had plenty of room in two adorable classic Minis that I owned. I think the big lads back then were probably drafted into the Heavy Dragoons. Sergeant Ewart of the Scots Greys I imagine was a helluva lot taller than five six. On a more serious note I think my great fellow countryman was probably referring to the raw material rather than the finished product when he referred to his soldiers as scum of the earth. Anyway it is no wonder the British Army was the best in the world particularly in the 18th and 19th centuries. Look at all the Irishmen that served in the ranks. After the English we have won the most VCs including the first posthumous VC awarded to the family of Lt. Neville Coghill in 1907 for his gallant attempt at trying to save the Queen's Colour of the 24th foot following the disaster at Isaandlhwana in 1879. He was born in the same northside suburb of Dublin City as myself and was just 27 when he and his gallant comrade (and posthumous VC recipient) Lt. Melville were cut down. Cheers.
@@paulkelly8456 Other family of mine (not the irish branch) had signed up just after crimea and got posted to South Africa, after being stood down they were put on standby before and after WW1. My more direct irish ancestor deserted in WW1 - I dont think the unit were bothered - they did not want Irish with weaponary come 1919 !
From the days of O,Cahan, s regiment of foot under the Marquis of Montrose to recently, my family and ancestors O,Cahans have served the Crown ,my great uncle Henry O,Cahan served with the Royal Ulster Rifles on the river Imjin fighting the Chinese, he survived being a POW and made it back to Ireland.....best wishes from the wirral...E
My wife’s ancestor was in the Peninsula War before being posted to Australia. He left before being sent to India and remained in Australia. He managed to serve time I jail later for assault. It makes you wonder if this was fairly typical of the redcoats after leaving the army. It seems they were a pretty rough bunch, especially after the war.
Its typical of soldiers/warriors outside of close knit tribal communities who spend a decade at war to leave the war and have problems adjusting to normal life, both legally, financially, and psychologically. Athenian hoplites fought next to their neighbors and relatives and went home to that same group of people enabling a community coping mechanism for the horrors of warfare. In the industrial era still hasn't come to grips with this. It may be worse for people of lower quality who are under rewarded for their service and get station in far flung areas of the Empire afterwards. You would think.
My Great Grandfather x 3 '' Married '' my Spanish Great Grandmother x 3 in 1809. I can presume with a fair degree of confidence that he'd met her during his service with the 45th.
"Single men in barracks do not plaster saints make." said George Orwell. He also said, "People sleep safely in their beds because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." "My father was a mean SOB but it was men like him that made the enemies of the United States think twice before attacking." said the author Pat Conroy of his US Marine Corps father. The same was true of my own father, a US Army glider soldier of WW II.
And remember that the actual statement was " We have AMONGST our soldiers the very scum of the Earth ...... " too many are willing to ignorantly tar all with the same brush
@@glastonbury4304 A Furious, Wellington wrote to the secretary of war, Lord Bathurst on 29 July 1813 that: “Our Vagabond Soldiers” had been “Totally knocked up”. A little later, 2 July 1813, he expanded on his theme: “It is quite impossible for me or any other man to command a British Army under the existing system. We have in the service the scum of the earth as common soldiers.”
A Furious, Wellington wrote to the secretary of war, Lord Bathurst on 29 July 1813 that: “Our Vagabond Soldiers” had been “Totally knocked up”. A little later, 2 July 1813, he expanded on his theme: “It is quite impossible for me or any other man to command a British Army under the existing system. We have in the service the scum of the earth as common soldiers.”
He was said to be fond of his troops and believed by them to be mindful of their welfare, which rather endeared him to them. Another indicator of his character, perhaps, was that he argued for Catholic emancipation in the Lords as PM and staked his career on it. He was an Irish peer, of course, so perhaps more in touch with the lower orders than the English equivalent and had been the subject of some discrimination himself as Irish peers were regarded as not quite the thing. All relative I suppose, but it probably stung.
He was a complex man. He expressed his disapproval of the railways because, he said, "they encourage the lower orders to move about." As a military man he valued stability and social order.
@@johnking6624 When I did my Staff Officers course in 1996, I chose Wellington as the subject individual of a paper we had to research and write on "A Great Commander". Like most people I didnt really know much about him other than myths and misinformation, so I was surprised to learn that Wellington surpassed all previous British Commanders when it came to the welfare of his Men. Yes he was a stern disciplinarian in hindsight, but in that era he was considered less harsh than most.
@@ardshielcomplex8917 Thanks for that but it doesn't change the fact that, like aristocrats throughout history, he regarded peasants as inferior and therefore expendable. The best exposition of aristocracy's point of view that I have come across is in a novel. I can highly recommend CJ Sansom's Tombland. Its a great book and really lets you get into minds like Wellesley's.
Great topic for a video , nice work. Also a reminder of Richard Holmes , his books and War walks series are top notch. I’ve always had an interest in the redcoats of the American wars of the 18th century particularly Earl Cornwallis and the small army of the southern campaign. Well worth a bit of reading. One particularly thought provoking passage from a letter written by Brigadier General Charles O’Hara. April 20th 1781 “… without baggage, necessaries, or provisions of any sort for officer or soldier , in the most barren inhospitable, unhealthy part of North America , opposed to the most savage , inveterate, perfidious, cruel enemy , with zeal and with bayonets only , it was resolved to follow Greenes Army to the end of the world “
He may have said that on another occasion but the term 'scum' was a favourite of his...A Furious, Wellington wrote to the secretary of war, Lord Bathurst on 29 July 1813 that: “Our Vagabond Soldiers” had been “Totally knocked up”. A little later, 2 July 1813, he expanded on his theme: “It is quite impossible for me or any other man to command a British Army under the existing system. We have in the service the scum of the earth as common soldiers.”
At least one in my family signed up for close to life, started as a drummer boy, in the earlier C18th. No great records of flogging etc in the muster rolls and reports, there were three others in the family about the same time too, mostly in regiments of foot. All had left or died before 1795, they settled in (but had not neccessarily been raised in) Ireland after their duties apart from the three whom are known to have died, it is possible at lease one was from Spain ( or the Spainish Netherlands under the wars of sucession), their heirs became minor middle classes in the north and south of ireland, one joined the army in the mid C19th and went to India where he died.
I thin Boney was a warrior was a precursor to our loved football chants, best wishes from the wirral ,home of the only English football club with a Hiberno Norse name..Tranmere Rovers...Grimsby of course was a Danish named place...in case anyone asks...
There is evidence for it. Captain Patrick Logan, a Scottish explorer of some note, fought in the Peninsular war and the War of 1812. Despite being a veteran of the Battle of Vittoria and numerous other skirmishes prior, he was traumatised by the treatment of the local citizenry by his own troops, rape, murder, theft and came to detest the common soldier or anyone of that ilk. His post traumatic stress apparently led him to be become a cruel man in his own right, later running convict camps in the antipodes including the much feared Moreton Bay Island. He was known as a flogger who'd work men to death if he didn't have them whipped into the grave. The convicts hated him so much, when he was murdered by natives on one of his many explorations, they sang songs and had celebrations. "Logan's reign at Moreton Bay was most conspicuous throughout its penal existence, and was spoken of as a ‘reign of terror.' His name was execrated. If severe beyond the very limit of duty and responsibility or not, the hatred he incurred among the prisoners in his charge became proverbial." "This place (Moreton Bay) remembers the name of Logan with terror. There were many instances, I am told, of men driven to desperation by cruelties practised on them, so that they would cast lots for cutting each other's throat in order to get rid of their own lives by being hung in Sydney. This same Logan, I am assured, was murdered by blacks at the instigation of the whites." brisbanetalesblog.wordpress.com/2017/09/04/captain-patrick-logan-haunted-by-the-ghosts-of-the-peninsula-campaign/
The army didn't recruit from prisons but forced enlistment in the army was an alternative to prison or transportation that judges could choose in times of war.
Most of these"volounteers" from prisons in the Navy were smugglers or similar, as I saw in an old documentary about Nelson's Navy, they were proven sailors, and the recruitment was seen as an accettable alternative to deportation
The prisons weren't the only place the navy got "recruits" from. The government might not officially announce a declaration of war for a couple of days so the navy would have time to organize press gangs to sweep though harbor towns to grab any idle sailors from taverns or right off the street. They'd even snatch up some of the crew members from civilian ships at sea. One of the instigating factors for the War of 1812 was the British Navy taking British born sailors from American ships without regard to whether they'd become American citizens.
Nice short clip. I can't say flogging actually worked overall - looting and stealing was an ongoing rampant problem throughout the Napoleonic Wars, and even after Waterloo during the occupation of France during which pillaging was common - and where at least one Brit soldier from Adam's Light Brigade was executed and another reprieved at the very last moment by Wellington himself. French locals were aghast when they saw Brits using flogging. Some commanders didn't agree with flogging, but used it as a rule to be followed. I think one has to look at the context of the elitist-bred Anglo-Irishman, Wellington, being the ultimate in dry upper-class snobbery, when he made his derisive remark. What he really felt about them was wishing he had his reliable Peninsular Brits in their former original numbers -> to attack Napoleon at Waterloo. Most armies have a proportion in their ranks that are easily susceptible to breakdown 'opportunities'....... Besides the British, the French were on a rampage of the countryside when they invaded Belgium during the Waterloo campaign. The Russians had their portion of Cossack plunderers, and the Prussians their own number of thugs. It seems Brit commanders during the Corunna campaign realized all the flogging in the world could not restore the miserable chaos and discipline breakdown during the British retreat > while among the French pursuers, some soldiers were openly slandering Napoleon while he led them on through atrocious winter conditions during the chase.
@@redcoathistory Thanks - and more so to your thought-provoking series of videos in this genre - inspiring insightful dialogue for all to learn from and share where we can.
Nice portrait of a tough brave man, von Baring of the KGL! While flogging is repulsive on a personal level, I'm not sure I would agree it was not at least partly efficient. Since you mentioned Coruña (pls stop saying Corunna haha) Craufurd famously ordered a few privates of his brigade flogged during the retreat but they got interrupted by the enemy proximity, and after skirmishing and withdrawing further (including the men who were to be punished), he pugnaciously had it carried out. Because he knew any slacking in discipline would be fatal, as it was for so many other units of Moore's army. Craufurd's Light Brigade had among the lowest losses from desertion or stragglers. I think Wellington's remark was in a moment of frustration during the retreat from Burgos, which some said was even worse than Coruña and the redcoats really lost discipline and turned on the Spanish civilians, their allies, and sadly, behaved abhorrently. Arguably worse than at Badajoz
@@28pbtkh23 Badajoz was horrific, but at least they could claim that they had recently been asked to (very valiantly, mind!) storm a breach, and had suffered many casualties doing so. So psychologically it’s easier to swallow, if it’s viewed as a sort of ‘revenge’ for fallen comrades against a fortress that resisted (so lumping together the civilians with the French who actually did the resisting). But during the retreat from Burgos the situation was similar to Coruña and the acts weren’t done in combat anger, they turned on the Spanish allies as army discipline broke down, they stopped listening to their officers, and that is arguably worse than Badajoz, not in terms of brutality but out of principle, and why Wellington got so infuriated.
Great video! I understand some of the Guards regiments liked to recruit from rich southern farmlands for 'taller' men. Unquestionably when you're recruiting from England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales, and the very different areas therein, you're going to get a huge variance of troops from vastly different backgrounds. From all sources I have read that can be relied upon, including Redcoat, it seems to have been half English, one third Irish and one sixth Scottish, which is quite in line with national populations at the time. Wales isn't recorded but did produce excellent soldiers too...not least general Picton, who was a proper Welshman, not merely an English lord with lands in Wales.
Lt General Sir Thomas Picton CGB actually died at Waterloo fighting for Britain. Yet shamefully, the Welsh devolved Labour Government just removed Thomas Pictons statue from the 'Hero's of Wales Gallery' at Cardiff town hall because of a supposed link to slavery. This was just after Edward Colston statue was toppled by a gang of thugs in near by Bristol. This was all just after the death of a drug crazed, convicted violent criminal, in the USA that sparked the BLM movement.
Greatest British army ever fielded was that of 1918, in my view. It had the experience, and critically the scale / numbers, as well as the latest in modern squad tactics, training and equipment. Leadership was pretty effective too.
Yes the army of 1918 was a great army. But its opponent had been degraded (I'm glad) What I like about the 1918 army was that it was made despite terrible casualties. It was never defeated, constantly resilient and adaptive. It was on the front foot when the war ended and could have fought on to smash the bs who created the next round.
Oh yes, by the end of the war, and years of moving men from the far flung parts of the Empire........with modern technology and a larger population.....yeah they were able to amass more men. Having them in theater for so long also increased veterancy. Sort of a low bar though.....the Germans went into the war with greatest modern army ever fielded....a sight more impressive. I mean, would not expect this to be the case? Would not expect modern political systems of the west to amass higher quality and larger armies than they did in 1800? Or 1400? The army involved in the war which wasn't the greatest that any of those countries ever assembled was the Italians.....who arguably could say that their army of WWI couldn't wash the feet of the late Roman Republican armies. But that's not even really fair considering the Italian state of WWI was about 20 degrees removed from the Roman state.
Thanks for the book suggestion, just ordered it because the excerpt that you read was very compelling. Anyone can write a history book, but it is rare to find an author who can make the history compelling and evocative in the way that gives the real life events and the real people who lived through them justice
Really good series and enjoyed the great content as being a retired soldier of the Gloucestershire Regiment ie 28 and 61 of foot. Are you intending on doing a Egypt series? I know that was before the peninsular campaign. Again Great content and eagerly waiting on what you do next thank you very much
Hi Steve. Thanks for the message mate. I will defintely do something on Egypt tho it may be an interview or two rather than a full season. It is an amazing campaign and probably the place where the redcoats came of age - but I'm sure you know that given your regimental background.
Writing on behalf of my 3 x great grandfather John Hardy from Kegworth, Leicester, 45th Regiment of Foot and Peninsular War Veteran, he was most definitely NOT scum. Served for a decade, wounded at Albeueru and became a Chelsea Pensioner when retiring to Nottingham where he spent the rest of his days as a frame work knitter. Gone but not forgotten John.
Povertym alchohol and being " invited by the Magistrate" was major recruiter of the British soldiers, but not all of them. But as war in Europe was ongoing, casualties demanded a more vigorous recruiting effort. flogging was a very common practice throughout the justice system at the time.
Could I heartily recommend “Tommy” by Richard Holmes? Different era of history but no less fascinating as an insight into the makeup of the British army in World War One. It also very effectively debunks many myths of the Great War. Plus your little edits from Carry Ons, Waterloo and Sharpe are always timed for maximum comic effect and help me raise a chuckle! “You shall be flogged raw for this!” 🤣
Great video, mate! I don’t think it’s contradictory that they should be at the same time ‘scum of the earth’ and at the same time a Great British Army to be proud of. As regards the rapes, I’m sure they were endemic (for all the armies at the time, as they had been before and indeed were after generally). The only army that has not raped on a grand scale (or at least one of the few) was the British Army (it could be that other Empire and Commonwealth Armies should here be included) of the Second World War. In all the other armies of that conflict it was certainly endemic.
You may know that may of the people initially thought Napoleon was liberating them . As people witnessed French atrocities. One major consequence apart from guerrillas was with Beethoven. Originally he wrote the anthem " Ode to Joy " honouring Napoleon the " liberator " . Once he realised about the atrocities. He erased Napoleon and words glorifying him and replace with a hymn .
@@lukeskywalker3329 Napoleon was viewed by the British public at the time more or less Adolf Hitler was viewed during the Second World War. So, aside from measurements, education, Freemasonry and the Roman legal system (in those countries that use that): What did Napoleon ever do for us? I tried to come up with a similar list for the National Bocialists but could only think of animal rights. Everything else they did was pretty shit. Except for the fact that their leader was not a racialist, at least not according to himself.
One of very few accounts of a British soldier of this time is the book 'A Dorset Soldier: Autobiography of Sgt. William Lawrence, 1790-1869'. One of the best books I've read.
Nice job. Was interesting and informative. One of my great great grandfathers did desert. I know nothing about why. He was sentenced to death commuted to life in penal colonies. And here I am in Australia!
@@redcoathistory Yes. I'm going to put his name and regiment up after the weekend. He wasn't in peninsular wars. It was earlier. I think 1803. Like many I've read the Sharpe series.
As per height, though with allowance for regional variations, it appears, after the late medieval period, average height began to slowly decrease in the early modern period in europe, not just because of long devastating wars, but also because life for the bottom of society became harder. Technology slowly advanced but emerging nation states and more centralized rulers and systems were syphoning off any gains even faster. Also, particularly in England, the dark shadow of the industrial revolution was menacingly approaching. Beginning just before 1800 in england and somewhat later in the rest of europe, average height took a real nose dive, only to began increasing again well in the 20th c.
A lot of Irish rebels from the 1798 rebellion (20k I believe) were given a choice join the British Army, be executed or shipped to Botany Bay. The British army was the lesser of 3 evils.
My Grandfather x 4 was at the battle of Waterloo where he lost a leg. He survived and had a pension until the end of his life in his 60s. What is strange is that he was from the Royal Navy.
I'd say Wellington knew his army better than us, very few in that army fought out of patriotism. His comments while unfair and said in moments of anger probably contained some truth when some acted at their worst - pillaging, looting, murdering and raping.
True, but then it's also true that those incidents are only remarkable in their recentness; pillage was known throughout history as being the right of those who broke through the breach of hostile fortifications - it's why most towns/cities in war surrendered rather than fought back. Only recently did those in millitary service attempt to do better, and it took a while before it their efforts saw results. Nevertheless, when given power be it by word or by bullet, there will always be some that seem to exploit it to the misery of others regardless of future consequence.
When was made that quote ? I think after storming Badajoz, or maybe the plundering of Vitoria and I can feel just as Wellington, he was certainly a paternalist with his men.
A Furious, Wellington wrote to the secretary of war, Lord Bathurst on 29 July 1813 that: “Our Vagabond Soldiers” had been “Totally knocked up”. A little later, 2 July 1813, he expanded on his theme: “It is quite impossible for me or any other man to command a British Army under the existing system. We have in the service the scum of the earth as common soldiers.”
I have to ask where to get that tee shirt. I understand my family's British roots are that that left Leeds in the 1910 time frame and the name is common but I am curious. Thanks,
The military tradition was if a fortified City refused to surrender when asked, then the attacking Army were faced with horrendous casualties once a breach in the city's walls was made; and a second demand to surrender was made to the enemy garrison. If it was refused then the "Forlorn Hope" (Assault Force) would have to take the Breach and hold it as an entry point. When the City fell the attacking Army was usually allowed up to 2 days to plunder and hunt down any armed enemy troops (including civilians) and it was accepted that Rape and other atrocities would happen (even though it was officially discouraged). Fortified Enemy Cities often surrendered once a wall was breached knowing what would follow once the attackers got into the city.
On heights the family of my English mother were very tall the males commonly over 6 foot (I am 6'2"). On my father's side the men all were fairly tall as well about 5'10"+. Small heights where caused by lack of food as children due to famines like the North Koreans or lack of money to buy food in urban settings whilst those living in rural area could forage for food and/or had allotments or small holdings enough the grow vegetables and keep pigs and/or fowls.
Social snobbery plays a massive part in British history. I think the idea of "scum" was just society's idea of men with little or no education and limited social skills. There was nothing wrong with the vast majority of them except the desperate poverty of their childhoods. My father was sent to Kenya during the Mau Mau "Emergency". The white farmers they were sent to protect would not speak to ordinary ranks in church - only to officers. Snobbery once again. And my father's local black drivers were not allowed to sit with him in church - they had to go to the back. Dad (a very good mechanic & NCO) did his duty and was offered a job by the army when his national service came to an end. He declined as he identified more strongly with the black nationalists than with the British army or the white farmers. He wasn't a snob!
Greetings from Australia. Very factual relatable and humorous narration . Well done . Wellington made Napoleon and his marshalls look like morons . Simply by spacing his men to speed up the volleys . In that a volley would be ordered " FIRE ! " . Swiftly shouldering arms the front row that fired would shoulder arm and retire through the rear in the immediate space to his side ( left or right . I don’t know ? ) once at the rear reload then wait turn to fire again . Where as poor old Napoleon tightly packed his men . Once the front row loosed their volley . They shouldered arms to run to the side of the company or brigade . Run all that extra distance and time to the rear and reload . The fire commander would have to wait for the front frogs to clear the front . This could take how long . Their volleys may have been more concentrated . But less accurate. Where as the red coats could fire every few seconds . With little break between volleys . The packed French ranks would have many falling . More confusion the mixing of the ranks . The spacing of the records made them harder targets . Good one Welli!
thats not quite correct...I think you are talking about columns .the French manual had ordre mixte that was a mix of line and column. I have never heard of French troops running to the rear of a column to reload
Wasn't it like, a common practice to recruit unemployed or otherwise "expendable" people? The idea being that they didn't contribute to society anyway, so they might as well go join the Army or something.. Not ideal soldier material, but it is perhaps understandable that the officers and such who came from aristocratic backgrounds would look down on them
You might be surprised what the Army can do with "expendable" men. Give a good sergeant a few months with the worst layabouts and thugs society has to offer and they're a lot more useful than your average college graduate;).
@@silverjohn6037 Yes I knew a former recruiting sergeant in the 1970's who was proud of what some of his recruits achieved. I forget his exact words but basically "I saw the places they lived and gave them the best chance they had and they took it"
@@silverjohn6037 given a few months and most were dead or debilitated by disease . The overwhelming proportion of casualties was due to poor food, clothing, shelter and medical care. A Sergeant generally a brut had men standing in line, marching, cleaning fire arms and able to reload within days, weeks at the most. Then they’d be killed and replaced by more deadbeats.
@@russellmiles2861 So long as they weren't sent to the "Fever Islands" (the West indies were Yellow Fever was endemic) or have to take part in an extended siege the soldier of this era wasn't anymore likely to die of disease than a civilian. Which, admittedly, isn't saying much. They didn't really understand the concept of germs which made outbreaks of cholera and dysentery deadly as they didn't understand the vectors of contagion but they did stress cleanliness which was the best defense they had. I'd also say you're ender estimating the amount of time it takes to make a soldier. I could teach you how to throw every punch in boxing in under an hour but that doesn't mean you could win a heavyweight championship at the end;). You have to practice endlessly to build up the speed, reflexes and physical conditioning let alone the mental mindset so you don't just collapse from panic when you're on the proverbial "two way range".
@@silverjohn6037 4 out of 5 casualties in Spain and Portugal were from disease and neglect. The same for French and Spanish. The brief sea transport caused illness among most soldiers. Back in their barracks in English due to the soldiers sleeping and eating together and poor hygiene saw significant deaths too. The difference from civilian life was large groups together so if one became ill: all did. The Spice Islands had a 90% death rate. But home station was such that few lived out their 7 year enlistment And training was rudimentary and mostly on the job if they survived.
Some countries love me ! Some countries hate me ! Some countries burn.me ! Some countries worship me ! Every country knows what I look like ! Who am I ? I'm union jack !
And here is another - A Furious, Wellington wrote to the secretary of war, Lord Bathurst on 29 July 1813 that: “Our Vagabond Soldiers” had been “Totally knocked up”. A little later, 2 July 1813, he expanded on his theme: “It is quite impossible for me or any other man to command a British Army under the existing system. We have in the service the scum of the earth as common soldiers.”
Like the old recruiting poster for the 3rd of Foot Guards, nowadays known as the Scots Guards @3.09. The regiment will be 400 years old in 2042, oldest of the Guards regiments, but was not in the service of the Establishment for a short period, allowing the Grenadier and Coldstream Guards to claim that they served longer. Grens are 1st, Coalies 2nd of foot guards, but I believe the Coldstreamers may be the longest serving.
Was the average redcoat during the Napoleonic Wars really 5'6 tall? I seem to recall that the army preferred to recruit from rural provinces in the North and West of England, as well as Ireland, because the men were there were typically tougher and taller.
My 4th great grandad fought at Waterloo in the 4th foot guards, was from ulster then lived in London, then died accidentally before the birth of his son, I wonder where and why he signed up in the first place.
The Duke of Wellington's regiment (now a battalion of the Yorkshire regiment) recruits from my neck of the woods Rotherham, Sheffield, Barnsley..I like to think he was talking about these south Yorkshire lads lol
Hi my dad really loves your content. He visited the the 1st and 2nd boer war battlefields in 1996 and 2004, he took part in the reenactment with the Dundee diehards at isandlhwana where he sounded the retreat on the bugle and was knocked brown by the on rushing zulus. He visited the intombi battlefield and has found and researched many local men of the potteries and 1 named on the Ntombi memorial from our hometown from the 80th foot. He found a local man from the 24th foot who has a memorial window at a local church and apparently is the only original window to a private soldier killed in the zulu war. All others are officers to more recent windows. He has researched thousands of redcoats and ww1 soldier from our local area. He has scratchmade dioramas of the battles with thousands figures, has medals and allsorts. Very knowledge and is willing to share this information if of interest. Thanks, not sure how how else to get in contact
Hi Andy lovely to hear from you. Your dad sounds like a top man. While I don't log in every day you can DM me on Insta and Twitter (@redcoathistory) then we can exchange emails...
My great-great-great-great-great grandfather was at Badajoz but he never made it onto the walls because he fell off a siege ladder and injured his back.
I understand the government gave Wellington a huge fortune as bonus at the end..but the common soldiers got nothing..nad contributed to the Peterloo mess..
Times were really hard for anyone that didn't have a job in those days and for those with jobs also, the ruling upper class in time like that were a really heartless breed of people who had never suffered any kind of hardships. There was such a thing as the Vagabond act that stopped people roaming the country supposedly, if they left their parish they could be hauled back to where they came from tied to a cart and then flogged and put in the stocks. Joining the army was at least a get out for the wretched existence they suffered.
That's a very good comment and very true. I have a ancestors who were in the Gloucestershire regiments. Some soldiers were married. Women acted as stretcher bearers, assistant surgeons. Carrying amuntion. Looking after stores and pack animals and children. Their history is yet to be written. Women were in the navy. Hens the women in the picture "the death of Nelson" on the walls of the interierer of Parliament. Only about 46% of soldiers at Waterloo actually spoke English as there first language. As in George's Germany legion. Billeted on the south coast many local names were of continental origin. Best wishes.
They were bad for anyone who fell on hard times well into the 20th century. Read Helen Forresters "Two pence to cross the Mersey". When her father went bankrupt in the 1920's they went from a comfortable middle class life in the south of England to a bug infested slum in Liverpool.
You’re right. Many of those people were and still are. However remember the British public school system, which can to some extent explain the heartlessness. It’s only natural that if you’re torn away from your parents at a young age and sent to boarding school where you’re buggered by the older boys, you should turn out to be somewhat of a sociopath (and a good custodian of empire). This comes from a middle class person who went to a state school (so I didn’t go to a public school myself).
My ancestor ( 11th reg, Light Dragoons ) fought in the Peninsular , at Waterloo and served in India . He survived and died at 70 years old of the flu'. I have his Waterloo Medal and copies of his army papers . He was illiterate and joined like many others at that time of hardship and hunger
Your comment about criminals being too independent, unwilling to follow orders and not wanting to be a member of a team describes a very small minority of soldiers I served with and are generally referred to as “shit-bags.” They were often discharged early, or just served out one enlistment.
Have you researched the complete quotation he is talking about some of his soldiers and why they enlisted but how by during the Peninsular they became fine fellows ? There is a lot more to it than just the scum of the Earth phrase
I reckon it’s the island mentality with fierce local pride in where you come from mixed together….we are a island of “ who’s he staring at” …allways up for a fight particularly if beer is involved…..l remember being in Tenerife in a bar in 1986 when England played Argentina ( marradona hand ball cheating ) in the World Cup ….1st half way even and tight but in the 2nd half Argentina scored with a hand ball …..anyway a load of jocks ( Scottish) started cheering and so it kicked off with the jocks being kicked out of the bar ….after the match the bar erupted into another pitched battle as northern English and the cockneys started battling and the cockneys were kicked out …..30 mins later the Yorkshire and the geordie boys joined together to start on the Manchester, Liverpool and Lancashire boys ….it was constant mayhem and it took the local police to shut the bar down at midnight to stop it …..we are just a nation of “ come on then ave a go “ …..put a uniform on em and it’s the same !
Wellington calling his men "scum of the Earth" was likely a tongue in cheek compliment. They were trained to kill & to follow orders til they were killed themselves. If he had equated his soldiers with the lounging, superficial peerage... that would be intended as an insult.
I'm not sure it was tongue in cheek to be fair...A Furious, Wellington wrote to the secretary of war, Lord Bathurst on 29 July 1813 that: “Our Vagabond Soldiers” had been “Totally knocked up”. A little later, 2 July 1813, he expanded on his theme: “It is quite impossible for me or any other man to command a British Army under the existing system. We have in the service the scum of the earth as common soldiers.” - it didn't mean he didn't respect them as fighters he just got sick of them getting drunk or looting.
I don't think you really get just how arrogant the landed gentry were. To an English gentleman in the Empire, everyone not a gentleman was an inferior being in the divine order, the working class and 'lesser races' were pre-destined to be their servants, _literally less than human_ by modern standards. Wellington was being serious, these ideas underpinned the Empire, and were taught in school!
@@transvestosaurus878 Actually Wellington was a complex character to be fair in regards race etc, as were many of this era. It's an interesting area of study and one I am considering a future book about.
@@redcoathistory Wellington lost his job as PM opposing the Representation of the People Act 1832 (the one that would have extended voting rights to people like you and me, and ended the corrupt oligopoly of rotten boroughs), he also opposed the Jewish Emancipation Act (allowing British Jews to sit in Parliament) and, speaking in the House of Lords against allowing Indian subjects to sit on juries, he said; _"... in this country, as in all others, there were certain established qualifications for justices of the peace and for jurymen; and that no disqualification, in any part of the world, was equal to that of colour... as in the United States of America, and the various states existing in the southern portion of that continent. Indeed, a term had been invented to designate it in Colombia, in which express laws had been made for the support and maintenance of the "albocracy."'_ (Hansard, Juries (India) Bill Volume 14: debated on Monday 13 August 1832)
I remember a history teacher using Wellington's derogatory comments about his soldiers as "evidence" for an attitude problem to the lower classes generally that later made him a poor choice for prime minister. I always wondered whether there was an element of robust army humour in them, the comment he used to make about him being unsure what effect they had on the enemy but they terrified him was clearly a joke. After all Bomber Harris used to refer to his aircrew as old lags.
I absolutely love that book by Mr Holmes. Very very good. The legislation that allowed, (encouraged/coerced), the men in the militia to transfer to the regular army DID change the composition of the rank and file, but to be honest, there was always a hard core of men from the bottom of society. And a good thing too. If you want a man who will not run, take a man with nothing to loose. (Oh, and I love that quote from the film Waterloo). To be honest, it seems to be a case of "it's Tommy this and Tommy that and chuck him out the brute, but he's the hero of his country when the guns begin to shoot". Lets face it, he made/makes the middle classes uncomfortable. Scum? No. Rough lads who ran wild on occasion? Yes. But by God, they could fight.
Criminals don’t make good soldiers? The Army (and Navy) institutiised theft. The opportunity to steal from defeated enemy and civilians was the major incentive to serve. Remember that prior the electronic banking Armies carried around huge amounts of cash and gold to pay soldiers buy stores and horses, etc. the civil economy was cash driven to. So a breakdown of law and order which battles represent were huge opportunities for plunder and a chance of wealth. This was the nature of most Armies until mid 1800s where soldiers pay, care for families and hospital treatment was greatly increased. The were supposed to be Scum - that was the system.
An interesting research is the British 73rd Regiment (previously 2nd Battalion Royal Highland Regiment Black Watch), they were known as the wealthiest Regiment (that included Other Ranks) in the British Army; AFTER they stormed the Tipu Sultans Palace at the conclusion of the battle of Seringapatam (Mysore India) in May 1799. After the NSW Corps "The Rum Corps" deposed Governor Bligh (in effect a coup de'tat) General Lachlan Macquarie and the 73rd Regiment were sent out in 1809 to sort things out, which they did. Most of the Officers and Men later took their discharges in the colony of NSW (Australia) and distinguished themselves in addition to buying farming land and property and played leading roles in the exploration and development of the Colony.
@@redcoathistory I can't remember the exact source, but I do remember that it was after the battle of Vitoria that he referred to his soliders as "scum of the earth" in anger over the looting of the baggage-park. If that helps
Especially the Irish Inniskillings must have been quite ruthless. 18.000 of Wellingtons troops were Germans - in Spain and Portugal they were a majority on several battlefields.
Hi guys. He said the 'scum' comment on more than one occasion. In 1813 and again in 1831. Only in 1831 did he add the extra line "it really Is wonderful that we should have made them the fine fellows they are.” In 1813 - angered by their plundering after Vitoria he was much less forgiving. So please read this before commenting that the quote is wrong or taken out of context. Thanks.
Hi.. you mentioned in the opening comments that 'they certainly enjoyed a drink' but, whether they knew it or not, isn't it the case that during this period drinking alcohol, whether it be wine, gin, rum, beer etc. was actually safer than the often germ ridden water? Also wasn't drinking alcohol more the norm of the time?
Criminals not making good soldiers; doesn't that depend on whether they were part of a criminal gang? If they were they'd be used to orders albeit having a bit more leeway to argue.
Damn Context…. I’ll
🥃, and again n again.
L
@@julianmhall that’s why they had grog, on ships no. Forgive me typing In the shower isn’t fun.
Well said, also you have to rate people by the standard of their times and in the early 19th century and the previous 18th century the British soldiers were not considered "bad" soldiers by their peers. In the 13 Colonies before and during the Revolution the American Colonists biggest complaint about the Redcoats was that they drank way too much. The Colonists were mostly first and second generation British.
“Didn’t know they were beaten” seems to be a theme for the Brits: so many times they’ve appeared to be on the verge of total defeat and pulled a victory from nowhere
like when China kicked them out for smuggling opium into china?
Stubborn refusal to bow to the inevitable is very much a British tradition. They say the English are too proud to realise they are beaten, the Welsh are too ignorant to realise they are beaten and as long as the others are standing and dying no bloody Scot is going to be put to shame by the other nations. It must have been frustrating for many generals that took on the redcoats.
When they took on Andrew Jackson, they knew they were beaten - The Duke brother in law was shot dead in the battle of New Orleans. The casulties ratio close to 100:1 in dead.
We always win the last battle that's why.
Laughs in British
My great great grandfather fought beside old nosey at Waterloo with the 27th Innskillings, my Grandfather fought at the Somme ( and other Battles) with 11th Battalion the Royal Irish Rifles , my father land with the Royal Ulster Rifles on D Day and took part in crossing of the Rhine, I serve with Royal Irish Ranger/ Regiment for 22 year and served in a number of theatres. All of them were god fearing sober family men of the highest integrity, hard as nails however. Thank you for putting the record straight.
Yes the 27th took the worst casualties of any British regiment at Waterloo but stood their ground commanded by the sergeants when all the officers bar a Major were killed or wounded. He admitted they saved his line that day.
Have you ever wondered why so many Pubs bore the name " The Duke of Wellington"? I could tell you, but it is worth looking up for yourselfn I think you will like it,
Well done my friend 👍
Scum rarely regard themselves as scum.
Your family has safeguarded Britain for literal generations, genuinely, thank you.
Ps we still wear the Red Coat in our mess kit , mine has Irish green facings with Harps and the Queens crown gob bless her. Faugh -A - Ballagh!
Not just in the mess kit, we, the ‘Brigade of Guards’ still wear the red coat regularly. With pride I might add. The Scarlett colour was procured for the British Army back in the day as it was the cheapest on offer. Nothing much has changed since then I’d say!
I have nought to say except, what a guy!
@@michealrcnicholson9342 I think the scarlet was just for officers, at least at first. For the first 200 years the enlisted wore madder red until 1873.
For the offspring of Irish tenants/labourers living as serfs on lands stolen from them generations before, getting paid for foreign service would certainly be appealing. Likewise with their English and Scots counterparts. If faced with them I would "Fág an Bealach" too!
Drivel! My family connection goes back through the ONeill’s and Macarthy Morrogh’s and the Dalriada , none were surfs , all were land owners and still are, you could probably trace that DNA to before the Romans . What distorted republican nonsense you write. Nothing was stolen from us.
British soldiers were a collection of men from all the British Isles including Ireland, fierce and resilient when well lead. If my back was to the wall They are who I'd want alongside, from any period in history.
The Irish only joined the British army in numbers when the british government finally eased is repressive anti Catholic laws.
Up to a third of wellingtons army at Waterloo were reported to have been Irish
@@wolfthequarrelsome504 unfortunate how religion has to rear its ugly head, my comments are only regarding the Men who served. No doubt there were a fair proportion of Irish Men at Waterloo alongside the rest of the UK, the relevant part for me is Together. Cheers.
@@HD-dz4uk When you bring up Ireland during this time it's bound to come up. Irish history was never even mentioned once in my history class and then people are perplexed why they don't seem to like us. It's important to note while we're patting ourselves on the back for beating Napoleon there's a whole other dark side of our past happening in Ireland. The film Black 47 takes place a few decades later but still recommend as it gives a good sense of what living under British rule might have felt like and it's also just a good time
@@HD-dz4uk damned pesky facts can be annoying.
@@stevesmith2171 Facts are Facts, I certainly wouldn't deny that, one problem arises though. People tend to use Facts to enhance their arguments, while denying others that go against. My simple statement on having British and Irish troops alongside me, starts to get a bit weird and political. Not really where I was going but cheers for the input.
Another thing on height: years ago I had the opportunity to look at 18th c military records at Kew. The muster rolls had heights listed. A lot of them clustered around 5’-6”. There was one muster roll for an American loyalist regiment; all men born and raised in the colonies. Their heights clustered around 5’-9” and even higher. There were a number of six footers. Tories/Loyalists in the colonies tended to be more prosperous, but there was also more land for agriculture, and more varied food available, especially in New York State, where a lot of loyalists came from.
Oh, and in the attestation papers of early 19th c recruits the occupation answers were monotonous. “Farm laborer” and “Day laborer” or just “laborer” were almost universal. They were men with no property, no special skills, and no prospects.
And now we're taller than Americans, guess those chemicals in their food has shortened them now!! 🤔
@@glastonbury4304 Hispanics are a lot shorter than European Americans !
@@jonmcay9659 aren't they just, definitely chemical abuse there!! 👍🤣
A similar increase in stature seems to have happened in early colonial Australia. Probably Darwinian evolution as a result of avoiding the Drop Bears. 😉
On the height issue, Wellington was 5'9" and considered tall in his time. Of course, he was the son of Lord Mornington and thus, we can very safely assume, never went hungry during the critical childhood/growing years. Anyone 6' or over was considered a "giant" (probably the equivalent of, what, 6'6" and above these days).
Fascinating how much our physical appearance has changed in a couple of hundred years.
@@redcoathistory I'm 5ft61/2, when I was 16 in the 70s the teacher lined us up for something and there were only 2 lads taller than me in my class (I was the norm), and while there were some late developers, being 5ft 9 and over was freakishly rare in my experience. Nowadays, I encounter on the streets little kids who are taller than me, and 'beanpoles' of 6ft almost seem the norm for 18 year olds. Football teams used to have a variety of heights from Nobby Stiles or Billy Bremner to a Jack Charlton or larry Lloyd, with the average being a Dennis Law or Bobby Charlton at 5ft 9, now 6ft appears to be standard with very little variety. Is that selection or have people just got taller since the 70s?
@@redcoathistory HaHa, speak for yourself mate. I remember not having to stoop on the middle and lower gundecks of HMS Victory. Then again always had plenty of room in two adorable classic Minis that I owned. I think the big lads back then were probably drafted into the Heavy Dragoons. Sergeant Ewart of the Scots Greys I imagine was a helluva lot taller than five six. On a more serious note I think my great fellow countryman was probably referring to the raw material rather than the finished product when he referred to his soldiers as scum of the earth. Anyway it is no wonder the British Army was the best in the world particularly in the 18th and 19th centuries. Look at all the Irishmen that served in the ranks. After the English we have won the most VCs including the first posthumous VC awarded to the family of Lt. Neville Coghill in 1907 for his gallant attempt at trying to save the Queen's Colour of the 24th foot following the disaster at Isaandlhwana in 1879. He was born in the same northside suburb of Dublin City as myself and was just 27 when he and his gallant comrade (and posthumous VC recipient) Lt. Melville were cut down. Cheers.
@@paulkelly8456 Other family of mine (not the irish branch) had signed up just after crimea and got posted to South Africa, after being stood down they were put on standby before and after WW1. My more direct irish ancestor deserted in WW1 - I dont think the unit were bothered - they did not want Irish with weaponary come 1919 !
From the days of O,Cahan, s regiment of foot under the Marquis of Montrose to recently, my family and ancestors O,Cahans have served the Crown ,my great uncle Henry O,Cahan served with the Royal Ulster Rifles on the river Imjin fighting the Chinese, he survived being a POW and made it back to Ireland.....best wishes from the wirral...E
My wife’s ancestor was in the Peninsula War before being posted to Australia. He left before being sent to India and remained in Australia. He managed to serve time I jail later for assault. It makes you wonder if this was fairly typical of the redcoats after leaving the army. It seems they were a pretty rough bunch, especially after the war.
Its typical of soldiers/warriors outside of close knit tribal communities who spend a decade at war to leave the war and have problems adjusting to normal life, both legally, financially, and psychologically. Athenian hoplites fought next to their neighbors and relatives and went home to that same group of people enabling a community coping mechanism for the horrors of warfare. In the industrial era still hasn't come to grips with this. It may be worse for people of lower quality who are under rewarded for their service and get station in far flung areas of the Empire afterwards. You would think.
the Duke of Wellington was purported to have said about his men "I don't know if they frighten the enemy, but they scare the hell out of me."
My Great Grandfather x 3 '' Married '' my Spanish Great Grandmother x 3 in 1809. I can presume with a fair degree of confidence that he'd met her during his service with the 45th.
What a fascinating family history - thanks for sharing.
"Single men in barracks do not plaster saints make." said George Orwell. He also said, "People sleep safely in their beds because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." "My father was a mean SOB but it was men like him that made the enemies of the United States think twice before attacking." said the author Pat Conroy of his US Marine Corps father. The same was true of my own father, a US Army glider soldier of WW II.
And remember that the actual statement was " We have AMONGST our soldiers the very scum of the Earth ...... " too many are willing to ignorantly tar all with the same brush
hence the fact its worth watching the film 👍🏻
Correct Phil, too many click bait videos on UA-cam...
@@glastonbury4304 A Furious, Wellington wrote to the secretary of war, Lord Bathurst on 29 July 1813 that: “Our Vagabond Soldiers” had been “Totally knocked up”. A little later, 2 July 1813, he expanded on his theme: “It is quite impossible for me or any other man to command a British Army under the existing system. We have in the service the scum of the earth as common soldiers.”
A Furious, Wellington wrote to the secretary of war, Lord Bathurst on 29 July 1813 that: “Our Vagabond Soldiers” had been “Totally knocked up”. A little later, 2 July 1813, he expanded on his theme: “It is quite impossible for me or any other man to command a British Army under the existing system. We have in the service the scum of the earth as common soldiers.”
He was said to be fond of his troops and believed by them to be mindful of their welfare, which rather endeared him to them. Another indicator of his character, perhaps, was that he argued for Catholic emancipation in the Lords as PM and staked his career on it. He was an Irish peer, of course, so perhaps more in touch with the lower orders than the English equivalent and had been the subject of some discrimination himself as Irish peers were regarded as not quite the thing. All relative I suppose, but it probably stung.
He was a complex man. He expressed his disapproval of the railways because, he said, "they encourage the lower orders to move about." As a military man he valued stability and social order.
He cared about the welfare of his troops for exactly the same reason that he cared about the welfare of the guineas in his purse.
@@johnking6624 though supporting Catholic emancipation at a time when the Orange Order would look like raving ecumenicals was something
@@johnking6624 When I did my Staff Officers course in 1996, I chose Wellington as the subject individual of a paper we had to research and write on "A Great Commander". Like most people I didnt really know much about him other than myths and misinformation, so I was surprised to learn that Wellington surpassed all previous British Commanders when it came to the welfare of his Men. Yes he was a stern disciplinarian in hindsight, but in that era he was considered less harsh than most.
@@ardshielcomplex8917 Thanks for that but it doesn't change the fact that, like aristocrats throughout history, he regarded peasants as inferior and therefore expendable. The best exposition of aristocracy's point of view that I have come across is in a novel. I can highly recommend CJ Sansom's Tombland. Its a great book and really lets you get into minds like Wellesley's.
Great topic for a video , nice work.
Also a reminder of Richard Holmes , his books and War walks series are top notch.
I’ve always had an interest in the redcoats of the American wars of the 18th century particularly Earl Cornwallis and the small army of the southern campaign. Well worth a bit of reading. One particularly thought provoking passage from a letter written by Brigadier General Charles O’Hara. April 20th 1781
“… without baggage, necessaries, or provisions of any sort for officer or soldier , in the most barren inhospitable, unhealthy part of North America , opposed to the most savage , inveterate, perfidious, cruel enemy , with zeal and with bayonets only , it was resolved to follow Greenes Army to the end of the world “
Thanks, Dave.
He also said, but what fine fellows we made them !
He may have said that on another occasion but the term 'scum' was a favourite of his...A Furious, Wellington wrote to the secretary of war, Lord Bathurst on 29 July 1813 that: “Our Vagabond Soldiers” had been “Totally knocked up”. A little later, 2 July 1813, he expanded on his theme: “It is quite impossible for me or any other man to command a British Army under the existing system. We have in the service the scum of the earth as common soldiers.”
At least one in my family signed up for close to life, started as a drummer boy, in the earlier C18th. No great records of flogging etc in the muster rolls and reports, there were three others in the family about the same time too, mostly in regiments of foot. All had left or died before 1795, they settled in (but had not neccessarily been raised in) Ireland after their duties apart from the three whom are known to have died, it is possible at lease one was from Spain ( or the Spainish Netherlands under the wars of sucession), their heirs became minor middle classes in the north and south of ireland, one joined the army in the mid C19th and went to India where he died.
They were all described by a particular sergeant as , *FILTH!*
Ha Ha - good old Hakeswill!
GOD SAVE IRELAND!
You are so jealous aren't you, Boney?
Be warned when OBADIAHS up , he,s up like a animal
I thin Boney was a warrior was a precursor to our loved football chants, best wishes from the wirral ,home of the only English football club with a Hiberno Norse name..Tranmere Rovers...Grimsby of course was a Danish named place...in case anyone asks...
There is evidence for it. Captain Patrick Logan, a Scottish explorer of some note, fought in the Peninsular war and the War of 1812. Despite being a veteran of the Battle of Vittoria and numerous other skirmishes prior, he was traumatised by the treatment of the local citizenry by his own troops, rape, murder, theft and came to detest the common soldier or anyone of that ilk. His post traumatic stress apparently led him to be become a cruel man in his own right, later running convict camps in the antipodes including the much feared Moreton Bay Island. He was known as a flogger who'd work men to death if he didn't have them whipped into the grave. The convicts hated him so much, when he was murdered by natives on one of his many explorations, they sang songs and had celebrations.
"Logan's reign at Moreton Bay was most conspicuous throughout its penal existence, and was spoken of as a ‘reign of terror.' His name was execrated. If severe beyond the very limit of duty and responsibility or not, the hatred he incurred among the prisoners in his charge became proverbial."
"This place (Moreton Bay) remembers the name of Logan with terror. There were many instances, I am told, of men driven to desperation by cruelties practised on them, so that they would cast lots for cutting each other's throat in order to get rid of their own lives by being hung in Sydney. This same Logan, I am assured, was murdered by blacks at the instigation of the whites."
brisbanetalesblog.wordpress.com/2017/09/04/captain-patrick-logan-haunted-by-the-ghosts-of-the-peninsula-campaign/
I read about Logan and Moreton Bay in _The Fatal Shore_ by Robert Hughes, an excellent book on the Australian Penal Colonies, which I'd recommend.
@@realhorrorshow8547 I'll give it a crack.
9 99
The Navy took "recruit's" from local prison's where as the army generally did not.
The army didn't recruit from prisons but forced enlistment in the army was an alternative to prison or transportation that judges could choose in times of war.
Based Royal Navy
Most of these"volounteers" from prisons in the Navy were smugglers or similar, as I saw in an old documentary about Nelson's Navy, they were proven sailors, and the recruitment was seen as an accettable alternative to deportation
OLD SAYING:
"The worst civilians make the best soldiers".
The prisons weren't the only place the navy got "recruits" from. The government might not officially announce a declaration of war for a couple of days so the navy would have time to organize press gangs to sweep though harbor towns to grab any idle sailors from taverns or right off the street. They'd even snatch up some of the crew members from civilian ships at sea. One of the instigating factors for the War of 1812 was the British Navy taking British born sailors from American ships without regard to whether they'd become American citizens.
Nice short clip.
I can't say flogging actually worked overall - looting and stealing was an ongoing rampant problem throughout the Napoleonic Wars, and even after Waterloo during the occupation of France during which pillaging was common - and where at least one Brit soldier from Adam's Light Brigade was executed and another reprieved at the very last moment by Wellington himself. French locals were aghast when they saw Brits using flogging. Some commanders didn't agree with flogging, but used it as a rule to be followed.
I think one has to look at the context of the elitist-bred Anglo-Irishman, Wellington, being the ultimate in dry upper-class snobbery, when he made his derisive remark.
What he really felt about them was wishing he had his reliable Peninsular Brits in their former original numbers -> to attack Napoleon at Waterloo.
Most armies have a proportion in their ranks that are easily susceptible to breakdown 'opportunities'....... Besides the British, the French were on a rampage of the countryside when they invaded Belgium during the Waterloo campaign. The Russians had their portion of Cossack plunderers, and the Prussians their own number of thugs.
It seems Brit commanders during the Corunna campaign realized all the flogging in the world could not restore the miserable chaos and discipline breakdown during the British retreat > while among the French pursuers, some soldiers were openly slandering Napoleon while he led them on through atrocious winter conditions during the chase.
Thanks mate - great input. It's these thoughtful comments that I love about this channel.
@@redcoathistory Thanks - and more so to your thought-provoking series of videos in this genre - inspiring insightful dialogue for all to learn from and share where we can.
Nice portrait of a tough brave man, von Baring of the KGL!
While flogging is repulsive on a personal level, I'm not sure I would agree it was not at least partly efficient. Since you mentioned Coruña (pls stop saying Corunna haha) Craufurd famously ordered a few privates of his brigade flogged during the retreat but they got interrupted by the enemy proximity, and after skirmishing and withdrawing further (including the men who were to be punished), he pugnaciously had it carried out. Because he knew any slacking in discipline would be fatal, as it was for so many other units of Moore's army. Craufurd's Light Brigade had among the lowest losses from desertion or stragglers.
I think Wellington's remark was in a moment of frustration during the retreat from Burgos, which some said was even worse than Coruña and the redcoats really lost discipline and turned on the Spanish civilians, their allies, and sadly, behaved abhorrently. Arguably worse than at Badajoz
@@cbc4199 - I have read about what happened at Badajoz, and that was pretty grim. So if Burgos was worse?!!?
@@28pbtkh23 Badajoz was horrific, but at least they could claim that they had recently been asked to (very valiantly, mind!) storm a breach, and had suffered many casualties doing so. So psychologically it’s easier to swallow, if it’s viewed as a sort of ‘revenge’ for fallen comrades against a fortress that resisted (so lumping together the civilians with the French who actually did the resisting).
But during the retreat from Burgos the situation was similar to Coruña and the acts weren’t done in combat anger, they turned on the Spanish allies as army discipline broke down, they stopped listening to their officers, and that is arguably worse than Badajoz, not in terms of brutality but out of principle, and why Wellington got so infuriated.
Great video! I understand some of the Guards regiments liked to recruit from rich southern farmlands for 'taller' men.
Unquestionably when you're recruiting from England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales, and the very different areas therein, you're going to get a huge variance of troops from vastly different backgrounds.
From all sources I have read that can be relied upon, including Redcoat, it seems to have been half English, one third Irish and one sixth Scottish, which is quite in line with national populations at the time. Wales isn't recorded but did produce excellent soldiers too...not least general Picton, who was a proper Welshman, not merely an English lord with lands in Wales.
Lt General Sir Thomas Picton CGB actually died at Waterloo fighting for Britain.
Yet shamefully, the Welsh devolved Labour Government just removed Thomas Pictons statue from the 'Hero's of Wales Gallery' at Cardiff town hall because of a supposed link to slavery.
This was just after Edward Colston statue was toppled by a gang of thugs in near by Bristol. This was all just after the death of a drug crazed, convicted violent criminal, in the USA that sparked the BLM movement.
It is the Normans that have the big estates all over Britain and Ireland. If they are not Welsh and Irish then they are not a English either.
He said it tongue in cheek, he knew what great soldiers they were.
I think he was genuinely made with them also. Espeically after Vitoria.
Greatest British army ever fielded was that of 1918, in my view. It had the experience, and critically the scale / numbers, as well as the latest in modern squad tactics, training and equipment. Leadership was pretty effective too.
Yes - it is a cracking debate...
They should never of been fighting,the Balfour declaration dragged that war out.
Britain should never have got involved in that stupidity in the first place
Yes the army of 1918 was a great army. But its opponent had been degraded (I'm glad) What I like about the 1918 army was that it was made despite terrible casualties. It was never defeated, constantly resilient and adaptive. It was on the front foot when the war ended and could have fought on to smash the bs who created the next round.
Oh yes, by the end of the war, and years of moving men from the far flung parts of the Empire........with modern technology and a larger population.....yeah they were able to amass more men. Having them in theater for so long also increased veterancy. Sort of a low bar though.....the Germans went into the war with greatest modern army ever fielded....a sight more impressive. I mean, would not expect this to be the case? Would not expect modern political systems of the west to amass higher quality and larger armies than they did in 1800? Or 1400? The army involved in the war which wasn't the greatest that any of those countries ever assembled was the Italians.....who arguably could say that their army of WWI couldn't wash the feet of the late Roman Republican armies. But that's not even really fair considering the Italian state of WWI was about 20 degrees removed from the Roman state.
Great narration, really smooth, well done.
Thanks, Patrick
Just found the channel, great work! Respect the bookshelves and bench press background.
"O it's a "thin red line of ero's" when the drums begin to roll"
Thanks for the book suggestion, just ordered it because the excerpt that you read was very compelling. Anyone can write a history book, but it is rare to find an author who can make the history compelling and evocative in the way that gives the real life events and the real people who lived through them justice
Really good series and enjoyed the great content as being a retired soldier of the Gloucestershire Regiment ie 28 and 61 of foot.
Are you intending on doing a Egypt series? I know that was before the peninsular campaign.
Again Great content and eagerly waiting on what you do next thank you very much
Hi Steve. Thanks for the message mate. I will defintely do something on Egypt tho it may be an interview or two rather than a full season. It is an amazing campaign and probably the place where the redcoats came of age - but I'm sure you know that given your regimental background.
That intro gave me a good laugh thanks Chris.
Writing on behalf of my 3 x great grandfather John Hardy from Kegworth, Leicester, 45th Regiment of Foot and Peninsular War Veteran, he was most definitely NOT scum. Served for a decade, wounded at Albeueru and became a Chelsea Pensioner when retiring to Nottingham where he spent the rest of his days as a frame work knitter. Gone but not forgotten John.
Hope you enjoyed the film. Us Leicester lads get around.
Enjoyable episode !
Povertym alchohol and being " invited by the Magistrate" was major recruiter of the British soldiers, but not all of them. But as war in Europe was ongoing, casualties demanded a more vigorous recruiting effort. flogging was a very common practice throughout the justice system at the time.
Not that long ago.
Some 40 years ago I met an old guy who, in his youth, had been birched for misbehaving on the Isle of Mann.
Could I heartily recommend “Tommy” by Richard Holmes? Different era of history but no less fascinating as an insight into the makeup of the British army in World War One. It also very effectively debunks many myths of the Great War. Plus your little edits from Carry Ons, Waterloo and Sharpe are always timed for maximum comic effect and help me raise a chuckle! “You shall be flogged raw for this!” 🤣
Ha ha nice one and glad you enjoy it.
I think after going through the breach at Badahoz you would be justified in getting drunk ,looting and pillaging ,
Great video, mate! I don’t think it’s contradictory that they should be at the same time ‘scum of the earth’ and at the same time a Great British Army to be proud of. As regards the rapes, I’m sure they were endemic (for all the armies at the time, as they had been before and indeed were after generally). The only army that has not raped on a grand scale (or at least one of the few) was the British Army (it could be that other Empire and Commonwealth Armies should here be included) of the Second World War. In all the other armies of that conflict it was certainly endemic.
You may know that may of the people initially thought Napoleon was liberating them . As people witnessed French atrocities. One major consequence apart from guerrillas was with Beethoven.
Originally he wrote the anthem " Ode to Joy "
honouring Napoleon the " liberator " .
Once he realised about the atrocities. He erased Napoleon and words glorifying him and replace with a hymn .
@@lukeskywalker3329 Napoleon was viewed by the British public at the time more or less Adolf Hitler was viewed during the Second World War. So, aside from measurements, education, Freemasonry and the Roman legal system (in those countries that use that): What did Napoleon ever do for us? I tried to come up with a similar list for the National Bocialists but could only think of animal rights. Everything else they did was pretty shit. Except for the fact that their leader was not a racialist, at least not according to himself.
Redcoat-loving Anglophile Yankee here. 😊 Absolutely love this channel, you’ve really got some fantastic content!
Great - welcome to the team!
One of very few accounts of a British soldier of this time is the book 'A Dorset Soldier: Autobiography of Sgt. William Lawrence, 1790-1869'. One of the best books I've read.
There's a few others that are great but Lawrence is certainly brilliant. I saw a photo of his grave recently - it lists his immense battle honours.
Nice job. Was interesting and informative. One of my great great grandfathers did desert. I know nothing about why. He was sentenced to death commuted to life in penal colonies. And here I am in Australia!
So it all worked out for the best!
@@redcoathistory
Yes. I'm going to put his name and regiment up after the weekend. He wasn't in peninsular wars. It was earlier. I think 1803. Like many I've read the Sharpe series.
Under Queen Victoria, The British army fought 60 engagements & lost but one - The First Boer War.
And funnily enough I'll be doing a lot of work on that war in 2022 so watch this space! I'm visiting Majuba in two weeks - can't wait.
Has anyone asked Sean Bean..??? ...possibly still over the hills and far away....great song by the way..great post...E
Just found your channel fantastic
Thanks, Jim
As per height, though with allowance for regional variations, it appears, after the late medieval period, average height began to slowly decrease in the early modern period in europe, not just because of long devastating wars, but also because life for the bottom of society became harder. Technology slowly advanced but emerging nation states and more centralized rulers and systems were syphoning off any gains even faster. Also, particularly in England, the dark shadow of the industrial revolution was menacingly approaching. Beginning just before 1800 in england and somewhat later in the rest of europe, average height took a real nose dive, only to began increasing again well in the 20th c.
A lot of Irish rebels from the 1798 rebellion (20k I believe) were given a choice join the British Army, be executed or shipped to Botany Bay. The British army was the lesser of 3 evils.
My Grandfather x 4 was at the battle of Waterloo where he lost a leg. He survived and had a pension until the end of his life in his 60s. What is strange is that he was from the Royal Navy.
Great Video
Love your Chanel
I'd say Wellington knew his army better than us, very few in that army fought out of patriotism. His comments while unfair and said in moments of anger probably contained some truth when some acted at their worst - pillaging, looting, murdering and raping.
True, but then it's also true that those incidents are only remarkable in their recentness; pillage was known throughout history as being the right of those who broke through the breach of hostile fortifications - it's why most towns/cities in war surrendered rather than fought back. Only recently did those in millitary service attempt to do better, and it took a while before it their efforts saw results. Nevertheless, when given power be it by word or by bullet, there will always be some that seem to exploit it to the misery of others regardless of future consequence.
When was made that quote ? I think after storming Badajoz, or maybe the plundering of Vitoria and I can feel just as Wellington, he was certainly a paternalist with his men.
A Furious, Wellington wrote to the secretary of war, Lord Bathurst on 29 July 1813 that: “Our Vagabond Soldiers” had been “Totally knocked up”. A little later, 2 July 1813, he expanded on his theme: “It is quite impossible for me or any other man to command a British Army under the existing system. We have in the service the scum of the earth as common soldiers.”
great vid mate
Excellent. Subscribed.
Thankyou, Sir.
3rd Bn Royal Anglians still carries the name "Steelback" due to their Napoleonic ancestors stoic indifference under the lash.
I have to ask where to get that tee shirt. I understand my family's British roots are that that left Leeds in the 1910 time frame and the name is common but I am curious. Thanks,
Thanks mate. Just bought the book
Hope you enjoy it!
It was tradition throughout history for commanders to promise ‘the spoils of war’ (looting) to encourage them to breach a towns defences.
The military tradition was if a fortified City refused to surrender when asked, then the attacking Army were faced with horrendous casualties once a breach in the city's walls was made; and a second demand to surrender was made to the enemy garrison. If it was refused then the "Forlorn Hope" (Assault Force) would have to take the Breach and hold it as an entry point. When the City fell the attacking Army was usually allowed up to 2 days to plunder and hunt down any armed enemy troops (including civilians) and it was accepted that Rape and other atrocities would happen (even though it was officially discouraged). Fortified Enemy Cities often surrendered once a wall was breached knowing what would follow once the attackers got into the city.
On heights the family of my English mother were very tall the males commonly over 6 foot (I am 6'2"). On my father's side the men all were fairly tall as well about 5'10"+. Small heights where caused by lack of food as children due to famines like the North Koreans or lack of money to buy food in urban settings whilst those living in rural area could forage for food and/or had allotments or small holdings enough the grow vegetables and keep pigs and/or fowls.
Social snobbery plays a massive part in British history. I think the idea of "scum" was just society's idea of men with little or no education and limited social skills. There was nothing wrong with the vast majority of them except the desperate poverty of their childhoods. My father was sent to Kenya during the Mau Mau "Emergency". The white farmers they were sent to protect would not speak to ordinary ranks in church - only to officers. Snobbery once again. And my father's local black drivers were not allowed to sit with him in church - they had to go to the back. Dad (a very good mechanic & NCO) did his duty and was offered a job by the army when his national service came to an end. He declined as he identified more strongly with the black nationalists than with the British army or the white farmers. He wasn't a snob!
And so it should be, I sit here like I am bored sir .
So out of the 3 which service had the best conditions? Army navy or marines?
I haven't researched enough but probably navy...
Greetings from Australia.
Very factual relatable and humorous narration .
Well done .
Wellington made Napoleon and his marshalls look like morons .
Simply by spacing his men to speed up the volleys .
In that a volley would be ordered " FIRE ! " . Swiftly shouldering arms the front row that fired would shoulder arm and retire through the rear in the immediate space to his side ( left or right . I don’t know ? ) once at the rear reload then wait turn to fire again .
Where as poor old Napoleon tightly packed his men . Once the front row loosed their volley . They shouldered arms to run to the side of the company or brigade . Run all that extra distance and time to the rear and reload . The fire commander would have to wait for the front frogs to clear the front . This could take how long . Their volleys may have been more concentrated . But less accurate.
Where as the red coats could fire every few seconds .
With little break between volleys . The packed French ranks would have many falling . More confusion the mixing of the ranks .
The spacing of the records made them harder targets .
Good one Welli!
thats not quite correct...I think you are talking about columns .the French manual had ordre mixte that was a mix of line and column. I have never heard of French troops running to the rear of a column to reload
This is good work.
Lt Col Harvey estimates that 40 per cent of the soldiers who fought with Wellington in the Peninsular War between 1807 and 1814 were Irish.
Very good video. On a point of grammar , pictures are “hung”, men are “hanged” unless we’re describing something else, ahem, when they’re “hung”!
Thanks for the info! I have done some research and it turns out 83 percent were hung - more than 12 inches it seems.
Being Australian of convict decent I can say yes, British officer did love the lash 😂
Great video
Thanks, Miles.
Wasn't it like, a common practice to recruit unemployed or otherwise "expendable" people? The idea being that they didn't contribute to society anyway, so they might as well go join the Army or something.. Not ideal soldier material, but it is perhaps understandable that the officers and such who came from aristocratic backgrounds would look down on them
You might be surprised what the Army can do with "expendable" men. Give a good sergeant a few months with the worst layabouts and thugs society has to offer and they're a lot more useful than your average college graduate;).
@@silverjohn6037 Yes I knew a former recruiting sergeant in the 1970's who was proud of what some of his recruits achieved. I forget his exact words but basically "I saw the places they lived and gave them the best chance they had and they took it"
@@silverjohn6037 given a few months and most were dead or debilitated by disease . The overwhelming proportion of casualties was due to poor food, clothing, shelter and medical care. A Sergeant generally a brut had men standing in line, marching, cleaning fire arms and able to reload within days, weeks at the most. Then they’d be killed and replaced by more deadbeats.
@@russellmiles2861 So long as they weren't sent to the "Fever Islands" (the West indies were Yellow Fever was endemic) or have to take part in an extended siege the soldier of this era wasn't anymore likely to die of disease than a civilian. Which, admittedly, isn't saying much.
They didn't really understand the concept of germs which made outbreaks of cholera and dysentery deadly as they didn't understand the vectors of contagion but they did stress cleanliness which was the best defense they had.
I'd also say you're ender estimating the amount of time it takes to make a soldier. I could teach you how to throw every punch in boxing in under an hour but that doesn't mean you could win a heavyweight championship at the end;). You have to practice endlessly to build up the speed, reflexes and physical conditioning let alone the mental mindset so you don't just collapse from panic when you're on the proverbial "two way range".
@@silverjohn6037 4 out of 5 casualties in Spain and Portugal were from disease and neglect. The same for French and Spanish. The brief sea transport caused illness among most soldiers. Back in their barracks in English due to the soldiers sleeping and eating together and poor hygiene saw significant deaths too. The difference from civilian life was large groups together so if one became ill: all did.
The Spice Islands had a 90% death rate. But home station was such that few lived out their 7 year enlistment
And training was rudimentary and mostly on the job if they survived.
Some countries love me ! Some countries hate me ! Some countries burn.me ! Some countries worship me ! Every country knows what I look like ! Who am I ? I'm union jack !
Most hate
@@christopherdempsey9864 Most jealous of Our achievement's,
@@newton18311 😅😅😅😅
I have traveled extensively throughout the world, I can honestly say most people love Britain.
“ They are the very scum of the earth…but see what fine fellows we have made of them” was one version of the quote I have come across
And here is another - A Furious, Wellington wrote to the secretary of war, Lord Bathurst on 29 July 1813 that: “Our Vagabond Soldiers” had been “Totally knocked up”. A little later, 2 July 1813, he expanded on his theme: “It is quite impossible for me or any other man to command a British Army under the existing system. We have in the service the scum of the earth as common soldiers.”
Like the old recruiting poster for the 3rd of Foot Guards, nowadays known as the Scots Guards @3.09. The regiment will be 400 years old in 2042, oldest of the Guards regiments, but was not in the service of the Establishment for a short period, allowing the Grenadier and Coldstream Guards to claim that they served longer. Grens are 1st, Coalies 2nd of foot guards, but I believe the Coldstreamers may be the longest serving.
Was the average redcoat during the Napoleonic Wars really 5'6 tall? I seem to recall that the army preferred to recruit from rural provinces in the North and West of England, as well as Ireland, because the men were there were typically tougher and taller.
My 4th great grandad fought at Waterloo in the 4th foot guards, was from ulster then lived in London, then died accidentally before the birth of his son, I wonder where and why he signed up in the first place.
The 4th Foot Guards are the Irish Guards formed in 1900. At the time of Waterloo only the Grenadier, Coldstream and Scots Guards were in service.
The Duke of Wellington's regiment (now a battalion of the Yorkshire regiment) recruits from my neck of the woods Rotherham, Sheffield, Barnsley..I like to think he was talking about these south Yorkshire lads lol
Thank you Christian.
Hi my dad really loves your content.
He visited the the 1st and 2nd boer war battlefields in 1996 and 2004, he took part in the reenactment with the Dundee diehards at isandlhwana where he sounded the retreat on the bugle and was knocked brown by the on rushing zulus. He visited the intombi battlefield and has found and researched many local men of the potteries and 1 named on the Ntombi memorial from our hometown from the 80th foot. He found a local man from the 24th foot who has a memorial window at a local church and apparently is the only original window to a private soldier killed in the zulu war. All others are officers to more recent windows. He has researched thousands of redcoats and ww1 soldier from our local area.
He has scratchmade dioramas of the battles with thousands figures, has medals and allsorts.
Very knowledge and is willing to share this information if of interest. Thanks, not sure how how else to get in contact
Hi Andy lovely to hear from you. Your dad sounds like a top man. While I don't log in every day you can DM me on Insta and Twitter (@redcoathistory) then we can exchange emails...
@@redcoathistory yes I'll find you on the other platforms thanks
Hi!! Great stuff. You're dead on :" like most British people,they liked to fight. And have an occasional alcoholic beverage ". Great work!!
I'll say a word. I served in 1 RNZIR.We love our traditions. Your Queen gave us our battle honours for our colours.
My great-great-great-great-great grandfather was at Badajoz but he never made it onto the walls because he fell off a siege ladder and injured his back.
Question for owner of channel
Marlborough or Wellington?
Id give the edge to John Churchill but Wellington beat the more formidable opponents
To be fair I can't really compare them as I haven't really studied Marlborough. One day I will try and answer you!
@@redcoathistory no worries. One interesting thing to note is both Wellington and Napoleon called Marlborough Britain’s greatest ever general
I understand the government gave Wellington a huge fortune as bonus at the end..but the common soldiers got nothing..nad contributed to the Peterloo mess..
Times were really hard for anyone that didn't have a job in those days and for those with jobs also, the ruling upper class in time like that were a really heartless breed of people who had never suffered any kind of hardships. There was such a thing as the Vagabond act that stopped people roaming the country supposedly, if they left their parish they could be hauled back to where they came from tied to a cart and then flogged and put in the stocks. Joining the army was at least a get out for the wretched existence they suffered.
That's a very good comment and very true. I have a ancestors who were in the Gloucestershire regiments. Some soldiers were married. Women acted as stretcher bearers, assistant surgeons. Carrying amuntion. Looking after stores and pack animals and children. Their history is yet to be written. Women were in the navy. Hens the women in the picture "the death of Nelson" on the walls of the interierer of Parliament. Only about 46% of soldiers at Waterloo actually spoke English as there first language. As in George's Germany legion. Billeted on the south coast many local names were of continental origin. Best wishes.
The Tories would bring that tomorrow
They were bad for anyone who fell on hard times well into the 20th century. Read Helen Forresters "Two pence to cross the Mersey". When her father went bankrupt in the 1920's they went from a comfortable middle class life in the south of England to a bug infested slum in Liverpool.
@@freebeerfordworkers A friend of my sister’s died of starvation in the 1930s.
You’re right. Many of those people were and still are. However remember the British public school system, which can to some extent explain the heartlessness. It’s only natural that if you’re torn away from your parents at a young age and sent to boarding school where you’re buggered by the older boys, you should turn out to be somewhat of a sociopath (and a good custodian of empire). This comes from a middle class person who went to a state school (so I didn’t go to a public school myself).
My ancestor ( 11th reg, Light Dragoons ) fought in the Peninsular , at Waterloo and served in India . He survived and died at 70 years old of the flu'. I have his Waterloo Medal and copies of his army papers . He was illiterate and joined like many others at that time of hardship and hunger
Duke of Wellington's Army.
Your comment about criminals being too independent, unwilling to follow orders and not wanting to be a member of a team describes a very small minority of soldiers I served with and are generally referred to as “shit-bags.” They were often discharged early, or just served out one enlistment.
I can highly recommend Mark Urban's "Rifles".....
I concur.
Wellington had real doubts about the quality of these troops and even more doubts about the allied forces.
I don’t think he ever doubted the fighting qualities of his troops - he just got mad at their shenanigans behind the lines etc.
Got to agree with him there, "Redcoat", is an excellent book.
Love it
Dis Wellington say something like “I do hope they scare the enemy because they sure do scare me!”
Weren’t Napoleons guard expected to be six foot tall or thereabouts, or is that a myth ?
I quite agree Cris. The best British Army we ever had.
Have you researched the complete quotation he is talking about some of his soldiers and why they enlisted but how by during the Peninsular they became fine fellows ? There is a lot more to it than just the scum of the Earth phrase
Yes- read my pinned comment.
Really good
Thanks, Gordon
I reckon it’s the island mentality with fierce local pride in where you come from mixed together….we are a island of “ who’s he staring at” …allways up for a fight particularly if beer is involved…..l remember being in Tenerife in a bar in 1986 when England played Argentina ( marradona hand ball cheating ) in the World Cup ….1st half way even and tight but in the 2nd half Argentina scored with a hand ball …..anyway a load of jocks ( Scottish) started cheering and so it kicked off with the jocks being kicked out of the bar ….after the match the bar erupted into another pitched battle as northern English and the cockneys started battling and the cockneys were kicked out …..30 mins later the Yorkshire and the geordie boys joined together to start on the Manchester, Liverpool and Lancashire boys ….it was constant mayhem and it took the local police to shut the bar down at midnight to stop it …..we are just a nation of “ come on then ave a go “ …..put a uniform on em and it’s the same !
Wellington calling his men "scum of the Earth" was likely a tongue in cheek compliment. They were trained to kill & to follow orders til they were killed themselves. If he had equated his soldiers with the lounging, superficial peerage... that would be intended as an insult.
I'm not sure it was tongue in cheek to be fair...A Furious, Wellington wrote to the secretary of war, Lord Bathurst on 29 July 1813 that: “Our Vagabond Soldiers” had been “Totally knocked up”. A little later, 2 July 1813, he expanded on his theme: “It is quite impossible for me or any other man to command a British Army under the existing system. We have in the service the scum of the earth as common soldiers.” - it didn't mean he didn't respect them as fighters he just got sick of them getting drunk or looting.
I don't think you really get just how arrogant the landed gentry were. To an English gentleman in the Empire, everyone not a gentleman was an inferior being in the divine order, the working class and 'lesser races' were pre-destined to be their servants, _literally less than human_ by modern standards. Wellington was being serious, these ideas underpinned the Empire, and were taught in school!
@@transvestosaurus878 Actually Wellington was a complex character to be fair in regards race etc, as were many of this era. It's an interesting area of study and one I am considering a future book about.
@@redcoathistory Wellington lost his job as PM opposing the Representation of the People Act 1832 (the one that would have extended voting rights to people like you and me, and ended the corrupt oligopoly of rotten boroughs), he also opposed the Jewish Emancipation Act (allowing British Jews to sit in Parliament) and, speaking in the House of Lords against allowing Indian subjects to sit on juries, he said;
_"... in this country, as in all others, there were certain established qualifications for justices of the peace and for jurymen; and that no disqualification, in any part of the world, was equal to that of colour... as in the United States of America, and the various states existing in the southern portion of that continent. Indeed, a term had been invented to designate it in Colombia, in which express laws had been made for the support and maintenance of the "albocracy."'_
(Hansard, Juries (India) Bill Volume 14: debated on Monday 13 August 1832)
@@transvestosaurus878 Thanks for sharing,
I remember a history teacher using Wellington's derogatory comments about his soldiers as "evidence" for an attitude problem to the lower classes generally that later made him a poor choice for prime minister. I always wondered whether there was an element of robust army humour in them, the comment he used to make about him being unsure what effect they had on the enemy but they terrified him was clearly a joke. After all Bomber Harris used to refer to his aircrew as old lags.
Captain Cook was six foot four.
I didn't know that. A giant for the times.
I absolutely love that book by Mr Holmes. Very very good. The legislation that allowed, (encouraged/coerced), the men in the militia to transfer to the regular army DID change the composition of the rank and file, but to be honest, there was always a hard core of men from the bottom of society. And a good thing too. If you want a man who will not run, take a man with nothing to loose. (Oh, and I love that quote from the film Waterloo). To be honest, it seems to be a case of "it's Tommy this and Tommy that and chuck him out the brute, but he's the hero of his country when the guns begin to shoot". Lets face it, he made/makes the middle classes uncomfortable. Scum? No. Rough lads who ran wild on occasion? Yes. But by God, they could fight.
The Brits are un redoubtable,but rarely flashy or spectacular. And they spanned the globe and reset the arch of history most positively
Nice, well said.
I’ve always found the staff at Butlins very polite.
Old but gold mate
😀
Criminals don’t make good soldiers?
The Army (and Navy) institutiised theft. The opportunity to steal from defeated enemy and civilians was the major incentive to serve. Remember that prior the electronic banking Armies carried around huge amounts of cash and gold to pay soldiers buy stores and horses, etc. the civil economy was cash driven to.
So a breakdown of law and order which battles represent were huge opportunities for plunder and a chance of wealth.
This was the nature of most Armies until mid 1800s where soldiers pay, care for families and hospital treatment was greatly increased.
The were supposed to be Scum - that was the system.
An interesting research is the British 73rd Regiment (previously 2nd Battalion Royal Highland Regiment Black Watch), they were known as the wealthiest Regiment (that included Other Ranks) in the British Army; AFTER they stormed the Tipu Sultans Palace at the conclusion of the battle of Seringapatam (Mysore India) in May 1799.
After the NSW Corps "The Rum Corps" deposed Governor Bligh (in effect a coup de'tat) General Lachlan Macquarie and the 73rd Regiment were sent out in 1809 to sort things out, which they did. Most of the Officers and Men later took their discharges in the colony of NSW (Australia) and distinguished themselves in addition to buying farming land and property and played leading roles in the exploration and development of the Colony.
That part is only half the quote, the remainder is " but it is wonderful what fine fellows we have made of them"
I'm sure you are right - but I would appreciate an original source so that I can be sure for future conversations 👍🏻
@@redcoathistory I can't remember the exact source, but I do remember that it was after the battle of Vitoria that he referred to his soliders as "scum of the earth" in anger over the looting of the baggage-park. If that helps
Especially the Irish Inniskillings must have been quite ruthless.
18.000 of Wellingtons troops were Germans - in Spain and Portugal they were a majority on several battlefields.