I'm guessing that most feminists who actually watch the film will hold the following position: "I liked the film and I agree with a lot of it, now can we get back to women's issues?"
50 Shades of Gray is not about BDSM. It's about an abusive relationship. If Christian Gray were poor, not powerful, and not hot, he'd be considered the creepiest character in fiction.
His point is that women are giving him a pass just because he has status, money, and is handsome. His point is very very valid. Women will never EVER give a man w/o these things liberty to be as abusive. Why? It's because she feels she is either going to benefit from him financially, socially, and physically or she will destroy him. The power is fully in her hands and he is a fool willing to give up his freedom for some undervalued, cheap sex. If Wonder Woman was 60years old and fat, I'm sure that she would still get respect from the media and many other women/men. Just reference the movie Precious. She was shamed and still got elevated for years. Watch any Mr. Bean movie and watch how openly he shows attraction to women and see how they treat him. Like he doesn't even have a right to look their direction. His comment expressed how many women are hypocrites and liars; and sadly that is 100% true.
The main theme I kept hearing from the feminists, when male issues were concerned, was, "i was already aware of that, but" and "that is a vaid concern, but" "yes that is wrong, but". The issue I take from it is that if a man were speaking about an issue facing women and he said, "Yes that is wrong" and included a "but" he would immediately be pounced on for dismissing that issue. If you truly feel something is wrong, you don't include a "but". Adding the "but" is the same as saying, "sure it's kind of wrong, but not really, since it doesn't happen to me/ there are good reasons for it."
Not only do feminazists don't care about male problems, they always flip it back on them. In the current day ever since 2000 females have no problems and no plights but they still hold on to the plight of females from the 1950's, because if they don't the lie will disappear and the truth that females are more privileged than men will come out, so they must parrot " but females have plights too" perpetually because if they don't the horror show will start
Yea this woman did this the whole time, every time something was talked about for men's issues, she makes weird reactions and rolls her eyes, she is clearly a lost cause.
Everyone here seems to think that she doesn't have her own bias. I'm open to discussion about things but that doesn't mean that I don't have my own bias. To not expect that is folly.
cassie, i must sincerely apologize for the treatment you got from the media in australia. we did not used to be like this a few years back. good luck with your ventures. i'd leave australia if i could, i've hated this country for years.thank you for your courage. j.
I agree with you on thee whole media issue, but i honestly would rather try and fix the leftist government/media in Australia, because there is no voice for guys in AUS
@@auzziem8309 Exactly, also where to flee? Ist the same problem here in europe/ spain with the huge leftist indoctrination comming from the media and universities mostly. Pseudo communist revolutionaries with iphones and such ppl.
I don't think there is a possibility of a positive future because humans generally don't want their views challenged, we'd rather stay in echo chambers and it's easy for companies to milk those echo chambers for money so it will keep happening. I noticed how biased and untrue things are in the media in 05 when the cronulla riot was dismissed as purely white supremacists doing what they do and there was no mention of the earlier Harris Park riot where Indians rioted for the exact same reasons.. (the listed reason for cronulla was just the straw that broke the camels back, that sort of thing was happening in places around Sydney, my first highschool was hell, and supposedly places in QLD/NSW) But the reality was much more nuanced and harder to milk for money compared to outrage at racists so the news went with that because money is more important than truth. Honestly I think the only "humane" way to live is basically how I live, isolate yourself as much as possible so less people will be sad when you die, never bring a child into the world that is guaranteed suffering and potential fleeting joy, don't have a significant other because they would likely want a kid or you could accidentally have a kid and drink as much as possible so you can't think about reality as often.
There'd have to be a counter part and I don't know of one that doesn't fall into the trap of blaming men rather than legitimately showing plights women face..
That one girl with glasses was literally lecturing about how many men where taking up board rooms compared to women showing in her sense that women are oppressed from attaining those positions yet claps the minute after when that brilliant woman in the audience points out that a lot of women do NOT want to be in those positions. Nodding her head and agreeing when she literally made the opposite point a few seconds earlier
She also made the argument that men set the precedence in law that discriminate against men as a counter argument to the MRA's argument that just because men make the laws doesn't mean they make them to benefit men. She isn't very good at thinking through her arguments.
True, there where several occations where she faltered. Although if she really thought her arguments through she wouldn't be a feminist now would she?:p
scarlace - I thought she was pretty representative of poorly thought through activism. Now we live in an age where people have alot more freedom to speak up and means to get listened to but the general level of education is still not great, hence alot of the activism is very poor quality.
No. Even if Mel Gibson had made this movie it would've been demonized as *biased* and misogynist and he probably would've had to self-fund it. It was important this was made from a female, and then a former feminist female, and then a former feminist female who is also attractive. That she's a female removes her from implications of bias based on gender. This is most important since we're talking about a subject which relates to the demonization (or not) of men. Of course a man would not want to be demonized whether they're guilty or not right? If you ask a pig if it wants to be killed for the slaughter do you think it will say no? That she's a former feminist means she's intimate knowledge of what it means to be a feminist and is therefore able to speak about it, and counter-arguments which may be particularly relevant, fluently. Finally, that she's attractive brings a marketability and likability that appeals to everyone. I wrote Karen Straughan a while back and said these very things. Her voice is a canary in the coal mine. I can try and convince people of my innocence all day. But I'm a man. Society does not listen, seriously, to the voice of a body with a penis. We're too busy dying in wars, maintaining our society, and dying of testicular and prostate cancer and suicide than to humbly request any sort of public solidarity for a blue football jersey, as it relates to the pink jersey campaign against breast cancer.
Honestly, likely not. I was so excited for it's release because I loved the premise it was based on - an ex feminist who set out to support the beliefs of her ideology and had her world view shattered. It happened to me a little over a year ago, and you feel this weird loyalty to feminism so it's quite a trip to experience denouncing it haha Kind of attracted a different sort of audience, presenting the information in a new way.
Probably not, and people would not have shown any amount of restraint or compassion had she been a man doing this, admittedly she did receive a nasty backlash, but because she's a woman a lot of the people calling her out would have to show restraint, lest they be called hypocrites for trying to defend women's rights by attacking a woman. But if she were a male, let alone a white, straight male, they would have assaulted the film full force, not just the casual screening blocking, or petition here and there, they would have gone full-on DDOS attacks, Doxxing private information, hacking sites and private accounts, and the media would not have been nearly as quick to give her a platform, if they even acknowledged it at all, it would have been in a mean-spirited hateful way, not in the optimistic but skeptical way they have with Cassie.
The right to participate in men's sports. The right to go to men's restroom. The right to grow mustache. Women so delusional they think they are really men
@lygophile ive looked into this and I try to read everything I can about special forces and they have actually given woman the oppourtunity to go through the same training as men, and we're talking about the strongest woman and absolute best candidates if you were going to pick any woman, and even then they gave them advantages and had special areas where, as an example, if the men had to get over a wall in an obstacle coarse, the woman would get a boost step ( and im not talking about gi jane) im talking about ranger training, not the seal teams, and the woman could not get to through and qualify to the same standards as the men. And im not saying that is a bad thing. I would have no problem with woman being in special forces, IF and only if they can make it through the same training as men.
@lygophile totally. Like you said a large part was psychological effects, and just like you said having a woman in combat and the instinctive protective feelings men display would cause men to want to protect them in a way that wasn't conducive to a combat team structure. Don Shipley is a popular ex seal who had a channel on stolen valor and calling out fake seals, eventually he made his own site that you pay for and it is basically him doing the stolen valor thing, but he also runs a wounded warrior hunting foundation where he brings in wounded soldier to hunt his property. His son is also a seal and his wife is an amazing woman. She recently made a whole video on why she opposes woman in special forces and she brought up a lot of great points that i hadn't considered. It's a good video to check out. But her perspective meant a lot to me considering she is married to a seal and also raised a seal that is still active duty which is super rare. One of her main points was " if my son or husband was wounded in battle and had moments to live, would i want the 130 pound woman there to try to drag him off the field or would i want the 200 pound male to firemen carry him, becaise seconds count..or would i want my son to take a risk that would kill him just because he has an inate feeling of protection towards woman where he would take an unnecessary risk that would not just risk his but the whole teams safety". It was nice to hear a womans perspective on this who actually has skin in the game.
Erin Pizzey... This will sound cheezy and sappy... Her simple awareness, and care, communicates more love to me from a woman than I think I ever felt in my childhood. As an adult, I've had the opportunity to cultivate healthy relationships with women, but there's something about her demeanor that just hits me very deeply, and very personally.
"Gynocentricism comes from human nature" Indeed, it comes from mammalian nature. In all mammals, including humans, the female is the 'bottleneck' and the weakest link in the reproductive process. She needs to be protected and supported if the 'tribe' or 'people' is to survive into the future.
This is some pretty /r/iamverysmart material with a side of /r/niceguys shit. That said, you have a couple of decent points in there mixed up with a bunch of sexism and half-baked metaphysical ramblings. I can only imagine you are a teenager, honestly.
There's no such thing as "human nature". Science shows that we humans are extremely malleable & adaptable, with our personalities being formed by our social environment (especially during infancy). If you look at different cultures, especially those of different political-economic systems, e.g. hunter-gatherer cultures, feudal cultures, the culture in mostly socialist Cuba, etc., then you'll see HUGE differences in gender relations and other habits where you might assume every human is the same if you only look at certain capitalist cultures.
Here's the problem with feminism -- it doesn't just demand equal rights (which I think no one argues against) -- it DENIES the objective realities that differentiate men from women. Whats worse is that they fail to recognize that gender roles were not arbitrarily assigned by some man way back when. Men & women evolved to possess their current traits, behaviours, predilections because our time as a species necessitated that we evolve in that manner. Let's put it this way, if WW3 started tomorrow, ALL of this gender equality talk goes out the window. Not because the world is unfair to men or women, but because every single nation that is to fight in the next war UNDERSTANDS that sending the women off to fight the war and keeping the men home to maintain the nation and raise the children is going to result in their destruction. Its not that men WANT to be the ones working and dying in wars -- its thats we are better (ON AVERAGE) designed through evolution to handle the physical demands of both those things, and women (ON AVERAGE) are better equipped to nurture and develop future generations. How some women find that insulting is beyond me.
The first part of your argument was very eloquently put. I completely agree. I agree with the second part as well, I just thought your first point was more eloquent.
@@beeh293 that's a bit nonsensical. Single-mothers still carry the same capacity for nurturing, and childless women still exhibit a great capacity for nurturing. I feel that fatherless households reflect the inability of the young men in certain cultures to accept responsibility or see adulthood as a necessary priority, more than it being a reflection of the woman's capacity to keep them in the household.
The whole history of the Red Pill film has been a case study in the hypocrisy of Feminism. Oh... So these women are now not the Radical brand of Feminism so please don't think bad of Feminism - Really? Every time they thought they could get away with it they tried to refer to Patriarchy. Whatever. Cassie Jaye will go down in history. This epic film is the death knell for Feminism. They fought her, and they lost. The two Feminists on the panel was on the defensive - and I think they know - Feminism is toxic. And their lame distancing themselves from the "Radical Feminists" - nope - we don't buy it. Feminism is Cultural Marxism. It is hatred towards men. More aggressive at times and sometimes less aggressive - but it is what it is. Full Stop. Paul Elam - hats of dude. You are awesome. You answered to the point. Accurate. Well reasoned. Erin Pizzey - what a seasoned war horse this old girl is. The Feminists can't slip a sly one past her. It is clear why Feminists don't dare engage with her in a debate.
Cassie Jaye did a very brave and remarkable thing while making The Red Pill. She looked into her soul and honestly saw her own deep prejudice against men - and eradicated it. It takes courage to face your fundamental beliefs, realise they are wrong, and change them. It may be the feminists on the panel are going down that road but are not ready to acknowledge such a deep-rooted belief that shapes their lives, and so can't help but keep coming back to 'but ... but ... we're oppressed!". Or maybe I'm just being charitable.
Bill Meyer love your summary. I feel the same. This film is the tipping point. You have to be so rigidly entrenched in your own dogma not to see the truth of this film. The fact that it's being banned shows how feminism is just a fascist movement like so much from the left.
Bill Meyer I know where you are coming from I would respectfully like to ask how the MRA would handle the situation in Saudi Arabia and other countries that burn women alive because their husband doesn't like them? Or where they can't step foot from their house without a male escorte? How would a platform based on the rights of men be helpful in countries where men have all the rights? I don't think feminism has a place in devolved countries, in fact when I am in the USA I am an MRA. However, when I do activism in other countries I am feminist because I very much believe that it is needed in some places.
If you search the story of feminism and it's true beginnings, you'll see that it started on divorce, custody laws, etc. It was always about hate of men. As said in the video, 'patriarchy', 'matriarchy', etc. Affect everyone. It's cultural problems that some hateful women in spite blamed all on men, while men in power always helped these women achieve these demands they had.
I think the best way to describe the problems with feminism is, that they want the same results as men has in society but not the sacrifice/work to reach that point. Feminism is like, oh you got a GOLD MEDAL, I am entitled to have one to now. But I don't want to work as hard as you did to earn it
we dont talk about sex in that its only ok to talk about sex if the narrative is that sex is bad or taboo or oppressive to women in some way. otherwise sex is censored everywhere, sex is seen as inappropriate to talk about almost everywhere, hell a guy cant even tell his hot coworker how hot he thinks she is and that he would love to have sex with her if he has the chance, but no... thats wrong right, thats sexual assault, in fact some people go as far as calling that rape in itself, he would be fired at work or at the very least be forced to go partake in som kind of programmed designed to reform him into some pansexual non binary thought experiment because him showing any kind of sexual attraction in the work place is the prime example of what toxic male masculinity, sex is silenced. i find it interesting that say in the 1930s a guy at work would pinch a girls ass as she walks by, and the girl may or may be upset, but nothing really comes of it, and in general women were sexually happy back then, now if a guy pinches a girls ass its a severe sexual assault, the mans life can and will be ruined from it, and yet, women nowadays are in general sexually unsatisfied.
@@acehighdan All I can read is "I harass my coworkers and they complain about me." do you really think woman where happier 100 years ago just because they couldn't complain at that time? There's nothing wrong with talking about sex. Telling someone you would love to f**k them and pinching the ass of someone is harassment. How would you feel if a guy pinches your ass and telling you how he would love to f**k you? Would you see it as a compliment?
@@IchhabezuvielUA-camgegucktO_o really? you dont like what i said and so you respond with what you think is a witty comeback as to who you think i am ? idiot, youre not even worth the time it took for me to write this response.
trust me.. its only because they're minority, if there were more femminist on their side, they would surely talk differently, that's female nature for you.
Your son is a critical thinker to have figured this out at such a young age. Hats off to your son. It took me almost 3 times longer to figure that out.
at 12:47 - the smug look on the face of the woman wearing glasses pissed me off. the gentleman was speaking about the violence throughout the history of feminism and it's blatantly obvious it has happened. the fact that she's smirking is just so condescending 😒
It's a feminist, what did you honestly expect. Any decent female that is a feminist nowadays either doesn't know enough about feminism to care. Or is an anti feminist/humanist/egalitarian.(Obviously there are exceptions to the rule but their a rarity not the norm.)
I think they really tried to sound mainstream at the beginning, but we heard that feminist shaming and lecturing start to break through as time went on.
I accidentally just stumbled upon The Red Pill trailer and was totally surprised. I was certain I would be outraged and instead, I was overcome by empathy. When I came across this panel discussion, I was also certain that I wasn't going to be persuaded. Wrong again. What a powerful and productive example of civil discourse. And then to read the most civil UA-cam comments I've ever come across. All of this has encouraged me to engage in and feel optimistic about more of these conversations. Part of me thinks that a big part of the problem is in using these labels to identify ourselves -- while on the one hand they can provide a positive, healthy sense of belonging, on the other hand they can cause us to shut down dialogue before it even begins. Clearly, meeting one another in a spirit of respect and shared humanity, ready to listen and learn and yes, even change our minds, seems much more fruitful. I think finding solidarity in our shared struggles can lead to our shared liberation.
People generally don't know why they believe what they believe. People are largely ignorant as to what exactly motivates and animates their belief systems. A lot of feminists subscribe to that belief system *not because they have made a thorough analysis of society and culture at large and come to a conclusion* (hardly anyone does) --- but because it validates their need to feel empowered psychologically. The belief system serves a different purpose for them, which is to have a sense of self grounded in some sort of emotionally coherent network of tropes. They believe in patriarchy, but they can *hardly* pin-point exactly what it is. They don't know what they mean when they say patriarchy, the very word conjures up from the subconscious frightening images of stern fathers and repressive political systems and all the dark sides of masculinity, and it's these images and sensations associated with the word that animates their belief in the concept. It's not a rational analysis. The patriarchy is an archetype of evil, and they project that image on to the world. We don't see the world as it is, we see ourselves, our own subconscious projections and if we don't get to work on getting to discovering ourselves and our implicit biases, idiotic presuppositions and irrational motivations we have no hope in clearing this mess up. Ideologies like feminism is like a parasite on people's subconscious life, it feeds them *a story that makes sense subconsciously, where they get to be the righteous hero who fights against an utterly corrupt world *. All ideologies does this, all ideologies turns people into *puppets* that are having their strings pulled by the implicit logic and mythological framework of the ideology possessing them. That's why we have to talk. When we talk, and are willing to listen, we'll discover how stupid we are. If you don't know that you're stupid as all hell, you won't be humble, and if you're not humble, you can't listen.
Damn, this is gold to someone who is in the middle of an ideaological crisis or willing to rethink their world view. I will show this text to some people i know if you don't mind.
Yeah why don't we believe in father Xmas or unicorns or even god any more...A belief can be gone in an instant like Cassie's belief in feminism. Staying fixed is not growing....Cassie is doing what feminists are just arguing about.
"One can be a feminist and an MRA" Let's just call it what it is... an Equalitarian. Which is what I am... I don't see the need to label myself with one or the other group.
You guys are gonna let feminism keep it's strength, all of it is bad because of it's premise regardless of if it helped an sweet old lady across the street once. Quick history lesson shows women had rights. As freedoms increased so did theirs until feminism crept in because of gynocentrism, our hypersensitivity towards women.
@7:50 "I would echo that as well, I think it is a socio-economic problem. Man asks- "If it's socio-economic, why would you call yourself feminists?" @14:38 " Well, from my point of view i'm not saying that feminism is about socio-economic things..." They literally don't even know what they're fighting for. I'm getting the feeling that they simply enjoy having the title feminists, and blindly continue to "fight the good fight" for a cause they seemingly don't even have a purpose for.
wasn't that obvious from like many years ago? REAL femminist fought about about choices. women have the choice and access to EVERYTHING now, so why do femminism still exist? also why they don't go to fight in country where its really needed, and keep talking about it where they already have 100% spectrum of choices+privileges... that's the question :D of course i know the answer but its so obvious even to write it down
THANK YOU Cassie Jaye!!! for your wonderful film. I watched it with my teenage daughter and son. This film is the antithesis of group ideology and why it is so toxic. Problems are never solved with blame.
The 50 shades of gray thing. 50 shades, even according to people who live bdsm lifestyles say that they relationship in it is an abusive one and isn't really bdsm.
I am a women myself and used to hold feminist views and this documentary opened my eyes exactly in the way the title metaphorically described it. I laid down my ignorance towards men's issues and also can't agree to these radical groups that influence are media landscape so tremendously these days. I oppose them where ever I can to show other women that we in fact are on the wrong path believing in this modern pseudo-feminist narrative. The only shame is that the documentary is hardly available to the public. I know Cassie Jaye deserves credit and the funds to keep on her fight but we need to be honest, that the smallest amount of young people these days will pay to watch this documentary. It is currently available on PRIME in Europe where I have seen it for the first time, but just stumbled upon it by total accident, which is a shame because it is so well made and important. Nobody really knows about it, but I think it could be the most impactful groundwork for a countermovement to finally get rid of wokeness, pseudo-feministm and the general gender war narrative which has just gotten out of hand and gets worse by day. Thank you so much Cassie Jaye to help me open my mind and realize a truth to which my mind was blind to by media manipulation. Keep it on and produce more content regarding that topic and get it your to the young women and men that desperately need to see it although they don't yet know they need to.
Instead of being as straight as an arrow with your hate, the better thing to do would be to understand that viewpoints differ. Its not helping to say "I hate". Would say that its pretty counterproductive
The fact of the matter is that only a woman could have done this. Only a woman, with an open mind, who wasn't afraid of the 'red pill' effect or the potential ego death involved in the changing of, perhaps a belief held so deeply that they identify by it. Only a woman, through a woman's eyes and voice, could put this together and at the same time, have the sincerity to do it fairly and without the bias of preconceived notions clouding the message.
Rick Well. She does admit to having preconceived notions. But that didn't effect her work though, in fact it is what made it all the better, her transformation on this journey down the rabbit hole was quite cool to watch. You could see the cogs grinding away as she just sat there staring blankly at the floor during one of her "diary sessions".
The one point that everyone seems to forget about there being too many men in politics is that it's the women who vote for the men! I mean honestly, if it's such a problem tell women to start voting for women.
djmc ninjarobot yeah history as the world's biggest lying, Uncle Tom kisser of hairy male asses ever. How is your "documentary" objective and unbiased when you got every penny of funding for it from MRAs and that sissy misogynist attention ho Milo Yanowhatever? You are proud of this unwatchable POS that only two critics even bothered to watch review and they both said it was biased, amateur garbage? One pathetic reason you did this bs "documentary" was so your wimp boyfriend would finally put a ring on it lol. People should have seen her in an interview holding her cheesy lil ring up flashing it around talking about how before she did the "documentary" she had a feminist mindset that made her "start unnecessary arguments" with him. Cassie don't blame your own flaky, argumentative personality on feminism you phoney. If it weren't for the rights feminists have fought for on behalf of women you wouldn't even be able to go to university, study film and do your shit movie. You got where you are on the shoulders of feminist and now all you do is kiss men's asses and tell them their little individual anecdotal sagas about mean, bad women they got themselves involved with trump the millions and millions of well-researched documented lives of women suffering REAL abuse, rape and murderers (up to and including the FBI reports that American men kill their wives, girlfriends and female exes to the tune of 1300 per year in the US alone) suffered by women at the hands of men globally. So now you up on top looking down your nose at the feminists who fought long and hard for your rights going "Thanks for the boost bitch!"and thumbing your nose at feminists. How dare you! Doing interviews while waving you hand around like a damn ditzy beauty queen and claiming you were a feminist? Girl please. And as if! As if it was some accomplishment to get that nobody dweeb to finally give you a ring--you were never a feminist, as most true feminists don't believe in the male created institution of marriage. You lying, sellout, desperate ole dog.
Unjaded Realist men need help and that’s a fact, women are now superior in a we the people society and it’s scary cause men are losing jobs from false rape claims, and male deaths are super high because of discrimination. Men are the victims here
I find it funny that some of these women, which happen to be British, keep talking about Patriarchy and the Law makers and so on, but forget their main powerful character, whose face is in all the Common Wealth (including Canada) money is the Queen Elizabeth. Is that patriarchal?
41:25 She lost me when she said women can't rape. So a lesbian is physically incapable of raping her partner? What if a man is drugged without his knowledge so that he has to stay hard for someone he doesn't like and made to penetrate her? What about women who wear strap-ons? What about transgender male to female who haven't had surgery on their genitals? Is she saying that they aren't women because they are capable of rape? I would seriously like to see the hoops she would jump through to rationalize these situations as not being rape. And she considers herself a moderate feminist.
Heatherea The problem here stems from how UK and european law is defining rape. She's technically correct and at least to me, her facial expression clearly indicates that she's not agreeing with the current definition of rape vs serious sexual assault.
@@theashologist You're not understanding what I'm saying. Of course a woman can force a man to have sex with her and she'll be committing a crime of course. It just isn't called "rape" under UK law. Rape isn't a layman's term, it's a legal one.
16:40 "There are not many working class people in the high powered jobs in the fortune 500" No shit, if you achieve that level of success, you're no longer working class.
It depends on who is having the conversation about the working class person who got rich. The term new money summarizes true wealth from one generation
"Its a socio economic issue, Not a gender issue" why make it about gender then by calling yourself a feminist. Be a socialist, it's less internally contradicting.
This point is what it boils down to. The term Feminism is implicitly gendered, exclusive, divisive and the movement has become increasingly chauvinistic. The panel don't want to admit their gynocentrism for fear of being labelled as such. They say, that's not my Feminism. The other ones are not doing it right. They are now painting white, well off men as the patriarchy in desperation to perpetuate the idea of a systemic and uniquely female oppression. This plays into Paul's later point about viewing everything through their narrow lens. It's a form of solipsism. To be post-feminist as it were and look beyond gender as the main determinant of a person's suitability for a given role or victim hood requires you to leave bias behind and look to the issues that affect us all. It's a step too far for many group-thinkers to stand alone, compete on equal terms and with all comers. Traits are what determines success in life, which should be especially true now all areas of society have opened up to Women's choices. Transparent Marxist game theory. There's a boogie man. It's a socio-economic issue. Let's blame those who control the means of production, which is conveniently still men.
Cassie Jaye, I hope you see this one day. I’m late to the party, only hearing of the film today. I watched it on iTunes, and I’m just absolutely blown away. You did such a great job remaining balanced, and also transparent with your own cognitive dissonance. That transparency was truly refreshing. I learned, I laughed, and I cried. Beautiful job. Sorry I’m 3-4 years late.
I think a large part of these male/female issues come down to biological differences that evolved over millennia in a very different world. We have to accommodate our biology into these discussions and talk about how mobile and flexible those biological really factors are. My thoughts are that there is a large part of these issues that we will just have to accept, though I don't like saying that. Men are disposable for good reason, if there is 1 man and 100 women it's very easy to repopulate the tribe, reverse that 1 women and 100 men you have a lot of problems, this small difference matters and it's exactly why we send men off to war to die and keep the 'tribe' alive. Our biology drives our thoughts and actions to some degree, or in other words ultimately female life is more valuable from a genetic perspective, this reality does drive our feelings towards men and women. What can we do about it? I'm not sure certainly we can accommodate these differences to some degree but our history as humans will always be a factor.
Thank you all for being speakers. I found it interesting to hear several points that were brought up. Special thank you to Cassie for making this film. If a man had made it no one would have paided any attention to it.
I am so glad to see this because I hardly ever get to see any actual debates like this on any media platform. It makes me feel like the media is constantly trying to drive a wedge between society.
RE: condescending feminist woman with glasses: 49:19 - referred to bearing children as something she "cannot do" 43:14 - SNAPS at the question about gynocentrism, yelling that "historically...our value was in our fertility" That's a small sign, but i'm pretty sure her quest of feminism is an angry revenge against her inability to have kids. That's just something to think about for those girls who can; and remember women are not forced to bear kids by patriarchy, women are simply the only ones who can.
yup, it is on the rise and has doubled in popularity in the last year alone. funny part is some feminists despite there SUPERIOR minds can't figure out why.
Mgtow is for men who are sexist..bottom line. They're stating that they feel females as a whole are so bad that it will be impossible for them to find one who's good enough to develop a relationship with them. The whole ideology behind it is so arrogant and pathetic that I don't understand how people can even take it seriously. It's something made up by a pathetic little witch boy in his parents basement who is been rejected by women because of his own flaws or because he's going for women who are of poor character or are out of his league his whole life and has deduced because of his own failings that all women are evil or bad or flawed in some way and therefore he is completely given up on the concept of a healthy happy relationship. That is the most pathetic thing I've ever heard in my life.
@Boi Banana I didn't play myself. With an ignorant statement and you have absolutely no facts to back it up with.lmao. there's absolutely no double standard c7 is mm3 all feminism is gender equality. Nothing more nothing less. If that's what you truly think then you're ignorant to what time it is in truly is and you have a false idea based on incorrect belief that you have about feminism
@Boi Banana it's hypocritical for me to want women to be treated as humans when you feel the on dehumanizing mgtow. It's a given and should go without saying that women need to be treated as humans for fucksake. We are humans we're not listen human just cuz we don't have a dick. If someone truly doesn't want to have a relationship with a woman that's fine. That's everyone's decision whether they want to have a relationship with a woman or with a man or whatever. People don't need relationships to fulfill their lives. However the entire basis of mgtow movement is the belief that women will look them over. They believe that women is a whole are inherently bad and we'll end up doing something to harm. That is sexist pure and simple. And I never said anything about every single person that she's has to do that for their life. I'm talking about the movement itself and the people who created the movement and who named it and who advocate for it. Big difference.
@Boi Banana And what the hell do you mean no woman has a right to dictate how man lives his life based on her perception of attractiveness? What does that mean. How does that even apply to anything I'm saying? Are you saying that because a woman doesn't find you attractive she's dictating how you live your life? Please explain what the f*** that statement means because it sounds crazy.
I was talking to my feminist friend (a girl), and she asked, as this was a crazy concept, what disadvantages men faced, I mentioned custody cases, as women win them at a much higher rate. She then made it into a disadvantage for women because it was the maternal societal norm created by men that women are better parents or should be the one who takes care of the child. If that isn’t proof of the blinding power of third wave feminism, then I don’t know what is.
They all acknowledged being aware of these issues already yet never speak out on these issues. They don’t make these points part of their platform. So clearly, either their feminism isn’t actually about gender equality or they don’t care about the issues.
I remember when I was 17, in my first ever sales job, it was about 15 women and 3 guys, and it was about 6 months into my job after becoming friendly with everyone...and the sales manager (woman) used to jokingly flirt with me and say things like "when your grown up ;) " ...All that was friendly banter, one day I was stood up kinda bent over my desk on the phone, and as I was on the phone she bit my butt cheek and started laughing, all the rest of the girls were laughing like "omg Laura hahahaha"...At the time I kinda laughed it off, but whenever I hear a feminist talk I always think back to that lol normally ends with me stroking my butt cheek
I had the same kind of problem... A woman in my lab touched my ass "for fun" while I as working (I have only women in my lab). I joked in return like "hey do you know anything about consent?". My boss (another woman) answered "we all know you love it". For fun...Absolutely... So what if I do the same thing to a female colleague? also my boss saying "the problem with men is that they don't erect anymore when they are older than 30 and they ejaculate in 5 seconds when they are under 30". How uncumfortable I felt...
I worked in a clothing store when I was 16 I was there for 18 months and I couldn't tell you how many times I've had my bum pinched and slapped by women in their 40s that includes customers and staff, there was one woman who grabbed my bum every single time she was behind me on the stair case but on one occasion I was behind her on the stair case and the woman behind me grabbed her bum as to make it seem like it was me who done it the woman turned around and started going mental saying how she would have me fired this that and the other then the woman who did it piped up and said actually it was me not him and anyway you do it to him on a daily basis and she just says yeah well that's different if I do it to him he's a boy he loves it, I didn't love it one bit I just didn't want to hurt her feelings, working in a female dominated area really does show you what women are like and how they think and trust me isnt pretty.
Clearly not when women take out more than they put into society, leaving men's tax dollars to pick up the tab. (In the US at least) They are also responsible for the 85% of all spending and account for the majority of spouses who control the finances in relationships. To say women are victims in a capitalistic society is nothing short of infuriatingly ignorant.
Depends how you define capitalism. It's the more socialist elements which seem to benefit women more. Though they benefit men too. ie most welfare is spent on women, men contribute most of the taxes.
It really says a lot about the issue in general that I have to say I'm actually surprised to see this hour-long panel of completely rational, well-reasoned and civil discussion. This is exactly what society needs - which is one more reason to thank you, Cassie. I hope your work will be something that starts a larger cultural dialogue. We desperately need it.
I could watch the dynamic between Lucinda and Paul all day. These two should have their own show preferably on TV because the expressions on her face when Paul is talking...Priceless!!
Incredible how different the discussions had in England are in comparison to america. Far more respectful, far less polarized and only character who introduced himself aggressively had an american accent! This discussion was so peaceful and conversational on the most part, despite that all the Americans in the comments are so abrasive and oblique.
I was young when I saw how men and women treated each other in marriage. I decided then I was never getting married. I was born in 1966 I'm 52 and happily never married. This mgtow and feminist sjw lgb leftist group DEM's leftist so-called news outlets were never around when I was growing up. I figured it out on my own and I'm happy and I sit back watch the show.
Cassie Jaye, thanks very much for making this documentary. Is there any possible way to watch the unedited 20 minute portion of the documentary on MGM?
I have to say it's very refreshing to see an actual conversation between feminists and MRAs. Respect for the feminists taking part in this discussion. We need more of them.
I wasn't aware you had a youtube channel. I wish every one could face their polar opposites with an open mind like you did. You are my heroine, Miss Jaye.
There's no "dialogue" to be made. It's too late already. Women declared war, and sooner or later one has to face the consequences of her actions. No peace talks and no compromise.
Damn Cassie what you did at end was beautiful, to be honest like that and admit that you had wrong ideas wow big respect not many people are capable of doing that.
I'm floored by the civility and good faith shown by everyone who participated in this discussion, panelists and audience members alike. I'm glad the loud obnoxious protesters stayed away so a dialogue could take place for once! I saw the film and it is a must see!
Cassie Jaye, thank you for making this film and showing what MRAs are really fighting for. I know a few people who have seen it and it has really made them think (men and women). I wish you nothing but the best in your future!
A difficult conversation to be had totally honest. I'm very happy that the conversation went well. I wish that more people could do this ... I don't feel like the MRAs felt they could open up and discuss it as it was an MRA crowd and the Feminist were obviously extremely brave to go there and you can see they didn't want to offend.
I wish I was there so that I could ask them who they think the second richest person in the world is. I see them continuously saying that it's men who make the laws that oppress men and ultimately it's up to men to change it (and that's what they're calling patriarchy), but they don't realize that most of those men are married and many have daughters and sisters. I don't believe that the women in the lives of those lawmakers and wealthy individuals have no say in what decisions are being made. It's asinine to believe that they don't at the very least consult their wives before making a choice. No man is an island after all.
Good point and don't forget that the wives of all these CEOs and highly paid men get to enjoy the benefits of the men's labour without having to achieve anything themselves and if the marriage fails they will usually get massive divorce settlements granted by our supposedly patriarchal courts. Just look at Tiger Wood's ex-wife. She walked away with about $250 million
Another point that didn't get an conclusion or proper consideration is that as the lady said a lot of women want a lay back life and that should be one of the reasons why in this day you still find more men. I believe it's a choice, because in the past 30 years have come far enough for every women to become whatever they want, but if some positions are filled mostly with men that's because women don't go for them. And the part when men get longer sentences for the same crime, saying that they are judged by male judges as an answer is very idiotic. I thought feminism was for both sexes but surely never heard the feminists talking about deaths of men or depression etc etc that when you think about it are more damaging than any other "right" that feminists want.
AlienPrincess ATX Common sense clearly. Smart people would skip the worthless degree and thousands in student loans and simply learn a trade and work for themselves while earning 3x what a Starbucks barista earns. Meanwhile the person with a degree in gender studies has 30k in debt and a dead end job that they could have gotten with simple GCSEs. I know which of those fictional people I would call smart. As I’ve always said being educated and being smart aren’t always synonymous.
@@kiznisha2562 exactly what I thought. the only people who bash a college education are people who don't have one.if you have no interest or desire to get a degree then that's fine. Pursue your own path in life but don't bash other people for doing something that is quite positive productive and necessary in order to live the type of life they want to live.it's absurd to imply that people who choose to get higher education don't have any common sense. SMH of course being educated and being truly intelligent aren't the exact same thing but they're not mutually exclusive as you imply either.
When you get feminists to explain their metaphysics, it always comes out like a crayon drawing about the last 500 years, instead of a mural about the last 50,000 years.
Almost 20 minutes in and the conversation has only been about personal feminist beliefs and not about the movie. Definitely reflects our everyday experiences where no issues are discussed because all the time is spent defending feminism using personal interpretations
48:18 That couple minutes that she spoke, that's all I've ever wanted to hear a Feminist say, That's all I've ever wanted out of Feminism. And I'm glad to have heard her say it.
The interesting question also here if indeed this "patriarchy" is real and still in charge could these feminism ever have a voice? The "patriarchy" so powerful then is powerless now? How and when did that happened? Men dominating is for a reason? I bet if these feminist have male children, brothers, uncles, fathers, husband that close they will know both men and women complement each other. They work together as a team. One need the other to survive and it wouldn't be powerful game as they see it. Imagine these point advocating for these ideas some 500 years ago. When things where hard and though. Men going for haunting for days, weeks and sometimes months. Will they ever advocate for women to go haunting in that cold? Or is it now the world is convenient all thanks to men's sacrifice? Sometimes I feel like these people are just ungrateful. Men sacrifice is not privilege.
Thank you so much for making The Red Pill. I can't believe that I had never heard of this before this weekend! Please contact me, I am working on a legal framework to create a Hyperledger Fabric to replace the Department of Child Support Services in California. I added my contact info to your page, last night. I am a father and a transfer student of legal studies.
I once had a student, he was maybe 19, and he just became so emotional and distraught right in the middle of class because he found out his girlfriend was pregnant. I told my class to read a chapter, went out in the hall with the student and spent 15 minutes talking to and consoling him. As a 24 year old white male myself (at the time), I chose to comfort him and offered to try get him help for coping, I hope everything worked out for him but I never saw him again at school after that night. The problem with most people, I have found, is that they never bother to look past themselves and those that think the same as them. They never attempt to try and understand what the problem is and explain why they are angry or so single minded. The biggest problem is with these people, they don't stop talking and just listen to and try to understand the other side. The last point, people will believe any lie they are told if it furthers their agenda.
Thank you so much for this discussion, it has given me hope that there is validity in feminism and that a constructive intelligent and valid conversation can be had on this topic. Everyone on this panel was awesome - including the audience. The simple fact that the red pill has received so much hateful and violent protest is certainly testament that extreme feminism is almost as bad as the white supremacist movement. I just don't understand the hate, as the doco is more balanced than anything that is usually presented in the issue. This IS the reason why feminist are labelled man haters. I make a call to all true feminists. Actively denounce the corrosive and toxic (to use your own term) core of extreme feminism. You can do better. We can all do better.
This was a really nice watch. Thank you for uploading it. It's a shame that in my 30 years this is the first time i have heard feminists talk with reason and logic. Im Danish btw. Sorry about my poor English.
How does this have only 150K views? It's a beautiful debate. Like all debates, slightly cringy at times, but people handled themselves really well, made their points smartly and respectfully. The feminist representatives were very gracious even when rather aggressively confronted, and that was really great of them. This showed that there is a path to de-escalation of the gender war provided reasonable people listen to each other's perspectives and experiences, accept them for what they are and then get to exchange about them. There are a lot of emotions involved in movements that seek some kind of redress or recognition of sleight, and it shows here sometimes that listening and empathizing is not always easy, but it's possible. Well done. How did the next day's screening go?
I'm guessing that most feminists who actually watch the film will hold the following position: "I liked the film and I agree with a lot of it, now can we get back to women's issues?"
chris11sholtz "I agree with a lot of it but really I just don't care"
more likely
"Womens problems are more important/real"
Alfred Pardoe really open your eyes
?
Nukes for Dayz Nk she,or he was clearly replacing the words”now can we get back to womens issues?”
don't you just wanna hug and give cookies to Erin Pizzey? or is just me? she is some kind of grandma for all men she is beyond awesome.
She is incredible. If Chuck Berry is the father of Rock and Roll - then she is the Grand Mother of the Men's Rights Movement.
Yeah hands down!!!
Erin is the literal definition of "Hero"
she is da real MVP :3
she is chuck norris's hero.
50 Shades of Gray is not about BDSM. It's about an abusive relationship. If Christian Gray were poor, not powerful, and not hot, he'd be considered the creepiest character in fiction.
sage kath hahaha lol true
If Christian Gray was poor and not rich, it would be an episode of csi miami not a movie.
And if Wonder Woman was played by a fat 60 year old woman rather than Gal Gadot it would look ridiculous. What's your point?
His point is that women are giving him a pass just because he has status, money, and is handsome. His point is very very valid. Women will never EVER give a man w/o these things liberty to be as abusive. Why? It's because she feels she is either going to benefit from him financially, socially, and physically or she will destroy him. The power is fully in her hands and he is a fool willing to give up his freedom for some undervalued, cheap sex.
If Wonder Woman was 60years old and fat, I'm sure that she would still get respect from the media and many other women/men. Just reference the movie Precious. She was shamed and still got elevated for years. Watch any Mr. Bean movie and watch how openly he shows attraction to women and see how they treat him. Like he doesn't even have a right to look their direction. His comment expressed how many women are hypocrites and liars; and sadly that is 100% true.
Also, sadly the book was written by a woman and it is other woman that made it a pop culture sensation.
The main theme I kept hearing from the feminists, when male issues were concerned, was, "i was already aware of that, but" and "that is a vaid concern, but" "yes that is wrong, but". The issue I take from it is that if a man were speaking about an issue facing women and he said, "Yes that is wrong" and included a "but" he would immediately be pounced on for dismissing that issue. If you truly feel something is wrong, you don't include a "but". Adding the "but" is the same as saying, "sure it's kind of wrong, but not really, since it doesn't happen to me/ there are good reasons for it."
Not only do feminazists don't care about male problems, they always flip it back on them. In the current day ever since 2000 females have no problems and no plights but they still hold on to the plight of females from the 1950's, because if they don't the lie will disappear and the truth that females are more privileged than men will come out, so they must parrot " but females have plights too" perpetually because if they don't the horror show will start
Thank you for the reasonable title.
It's refreshing to not see "Woman DESTROYS misogynist loser" and "MRA DECIMATES lame feminazi".
this comment deserves the most likes
pure gold. these video titles are destined to get 0 views from the other side. just preach to the choir.
Yes!!!! This!
FATALITY!!
That Feminist rolling her eyes at Paul when he said "..there's no shame in being a man" ( 21:23 )
MilesUmbrae nice catch. Those are the micro expressions that show a person's true motivations and beliefs.
MilesUmbrae wow, yeh. The bitch showed her colours
Yea this woman did this the whole time, every time something was talked about for men's issues, she makes weird reactions and rolls her eyes, she is clearly a lost cause.
Well spotted. Thank you.
Everyone here seems to think that she doesn't have her own bias. I'm open to discussion about things but that doesn't mean that I don't have my own bias. To not expect that is folly.
cassie, i must sincerely apologize for the treatment you got from the media in australia. we did not used to be like this a few years back. good luck with your ventures. i'd leave australia if i could, i've hated this country for years.thank you for your courage. j.
I agree with you on thee whole media issue, but i honestly would rather try and fix the leftist government/media in Australia, because there is no voice for guys in AUS
@@auzziem8309 Exactly, also where to flee? Ist the same problem here in europe/ spain with the huge leftist indoctrination comming from the media and universities mostly. Pseudo communist revolutionaries with iphones and such ppl.
Sorry from the Sydney gang
I don't think there is a possibility of a positive future because humans generally don't want their views challenged, we'd rather stay in echo chambers and it's easy for companies to milk those echo chambers for money so it will keep happening.
I noticed how biased and untrue things are in the media in 05 when the cronulla riot was dismissed as purely white supremacists doing what they do and there was no mention of the earlier Harris Park riot where Indians rioted for the exact same reasons..
(the listed reason for cronulla was just the straw that broke the camels back, that sort of thing was happening in places around Sydney, my first highschool was hell, and supposedly places in QLD/NSW)
But the reality was much more nuanced and harder to milk for money compared to outrage at racists so the news went with that because money is more important than truth.
Honestly I think the only "humane" way to live is basically how I live, isolate yourself as much as possible so less people will be sad when you die, never bring a child into the world that is guaranteed suffering and potential fleeting joy, don't have a significant other because they would likely want a kid or you could accidentally have a kid and drink as much as possible so you can't think about reality as often.
And now Andrew is in jail 😂😂😂
Who all think that it should be mandatory that teenagers in schools should watch this film. Either in English, History or Sex Ed?
In all 3
I do but carefully because it can possibly trigger class fights between men and women.
I really think the word is getting out to the younger generation. A lot of young MGTOWs are popping up on YT
There'd have to be a counter part and I don't know of one that doesn't fall into the trap of blaming men rather than legitimately showing plights women face..
@@drumboarder1 Agreed. We either need to find the rare one that already exists or create it
That one girl with glasses was literally lecturing about how many men where taking up board rooms compared to women showing in her sense that women are oppressed from attaining those positions yet claps the minute after when that brilliant woman in the audience points out that a lot of women do NOT want to be in those positions. Nodding her head and agreeing when she literally made the opposite point a few seconds earlier
She also made the argument that men set the precedence in law that discriminate against men as a counter argument to the MRA's argument that just because men make the laws doesn't mean they make them to benefit men. She isn't very good at thinking through her arguments.
True, there where several occations where she faltered. Although if she really thought her arguments through she wouldn't be a feminist now would she?:p
scarlace - I thought she was pretty representative of poorly thought through activism. Now we live in an age where people have alot more freedom to speak up and means to get listened to but the general level of education is still not great, hence alot of the activism is very poor quality.
44:00 if anyone was wondering
that's how feminists react, they don't have an opinion, they go with the flow.
would this film have got off the ground if Cassie Jaye was a male?
Rob Setters
Probably wouldn't have been any to interview nearly as many feminists.
No. Even if Mel Gibson had made this movie it would've been demonized as *biased* and misogynist and he probably would've had to self-fund it. It was important this was made from a female, and then a former feminist female, and then a former feminist female who is also attractive.
That she's a female removes her from implications of bias based on gender. This is most important since we're talking about a subject which relates to the demonization (or not) of men. Of course a man would not want to be demonized whether they're guilty or not right? If you ask a pig if it wants to be killed for the slaughter do you think it will say no? That she's a former feminist means she's intimate knowledge of what it means to be a feminist and is therefore able to speak about it, and counter-arguments which may be particularly relevant, fluently. Finally, that she's attractive brings a marketability and likability that appeals to everyone.
I wrote Karen Straughan a while back and said these very things. Her voice is a canary in the coal mine. I can try and convince people of my innocence all day. But I'm a man. Society does not listen, seriously, to the voice of a body with a penis. We're too busy dying in wars, maintaining our society, and dying of testicular and prostate cancer and suicide than to humbly request any sort of public solidarity for a blue football jersey, as it relates to the pink jersey campaign against breast cancer.
Honestly, likely not. I was so excited for it's release because I loved the premise it was based on - an ex feminist who set out to support the beliefs of her ideology and had her world view shattered. It happened to me a little over a year ago, and you feel this weird loyalty to feminism so it's quite a trip to experience denouncing it haha
Kind of attracted a different sort of audience, presenting the information in a new way.
I can't imagine so. It only barely got made as it is. I think Cassie Jaye was just the right person for the job.
Probably not, and people would not have shown any amount of restraint or compassion had she been a man doing this, admittedly she did receive a nasty backlash, but because she's a woman a lot of the people calling her out would have to show restraint, lest they be called hypocrites for trying to defend women's rights by attacking a woman.
But if she were a male, let alone a white, straight male, they would have assaulted the film full force, not just the casual screening blocking, or petition here and there, they would have gone full-on DDOS attacks, Doxxing private information, hacking sites and private accounts, and the media would not have been nearly as quick to give her a platform, if they even acknowledged it at all, it would have been in a mean-spirited hateful way, not in the optimistic but skeptical way they have with Cassie.
As a man who has been abused and run over verbally by women my whole life , including my own mother, I appreciate this immensely.
JL G stay strong bro,all the best
Been there bro just keep getting stronger
Feminism is supposedly about equal rights, but name one right men have that women don't.
They have the right to be drafted
The feminist said that they already knew about the struggles of men. Yet none of them said anything
The right to participate in men's sports. The right to go to men's restroom. The right to grow mustache. Women so delusional they think they are really men
@lygophile ive looked into this and I try to read everything I can about special forces and they have actually given woman the oppourtunity to go through the same training as men, and we're talking about the strongest woman and absolute best candidates if you were going to pick any woman, and even then they gave them advantages and had special areas where, as an example, if the men had to get over a wall in an obstacle coarse, the woman would get a boost step ( and im not talking about gi jane) im talking about ranger training, not the seal teams, and the woman could not get to through and qualify to the same standards as the men. And im not saying that is a bad thing. I would have no problem with woman being in special forces, IF and only if they can make it through the same training as men.
@lygophile totally. Like you said a large part was psychological effects, and just like you said having a woman in combat and the instinctive protective feelings men display would cause men to want to protect them in a way that wasn't conducive to a combat team structure. Don Shipley is a popular ex seal who had a channel on stolen valor and calling out fake seals, eventually he made his own site that you pay for and it is basically him doing the stolen valor thing, but he also runs a wounded warrior hunting foundation where he brings in wounded soldier to hunt his property. His son is also a seal and his wife is an amazing woman. She recently made a whole video on why she opposes woman in special forces and she brought up a lot of great points that i hadn't considered. It's a good video to check out. But her perspective meant a lot to me considering she is married to a seal and also raised a seal that is still active duty which is super rare. One of her main points was " if my son or husband was wounded in battle and had moments to live, would i want the 130 pound woman there to try to drag him off the field or would i want the 200 pound male to firemen carry him, becaise seconds count..or would i want my son to take a risk that would kill him just because he has an inate feeling of protection towards woman where he would take an unnecessary risk that would not just risk his but the whole teams safety". It was nice to hear a womans perspective on this who actually has skin in the game.
Erin Pizzey...
This will sound cheezy and sappy... Her simple awareness, and care, communicates more love to me from a woman than I think I ever felt in my childhood. As an adult, I've had the opportunity to cultivate healthy relationships with women, but there's something about her demeanor that just hits me very deeply, and very personally.
Same here.
Gynocentricism comes from human nature. To then call that patriarchy and that it benefits men is farcical
"Gynocentricism comes from human nature" Indeed, it comes from mammalian nature. In all mammals, including humans, the female is the 'bottleneck' and the weakest link in the reproductive process. She needs to be protected and supported if the 'tribe' or 'people' is to survive into the future.
This is some pretty /r/iamverysmart material with a side of /r/niceguys shit.
That said, you have a couple of decent points in there mixed up with a bunch of sexism and half-baked metaphysical ramblings. I can only imagine you are a teenager, honestly.
Peter Armitage Boy, you're as fucked up as a three dollar bill.
LMFAO....OMFG...thx for the entertainment Mr. Armitage, whether you're trolling or serious, thx.
There's no such thing as "human nature". Science shows that we humans are extremely malleable & adaptable, with our personalities being formed by our social environment (especially during infancy). If you look at different cultures, especially those of different political-economic systems, e.g. hunter-gatherer cultures, feudal cultures, the culture in mostly socialist Cuba, etc., then you'll see HUGE differences in gender relations and other habits where you might assume every human is the same if you only look at certain capitalist cultures.
Here's the problem with feminism -- it doesn't just demand equal rights (which I think no one argues against) -- it DENIES the objective realities that differentiate men from women. Whats worse is that they fail to recognize that gender roles were not arbitrarily assigned by some man way back when. Men & women evolved to possess their current traits, behaviours, predilections because our time as a species necessitated that we evolve in that manner.
Let's put it this way, if WW3 started tomorrow, ALL of this gender equality talk goes out the window. Not because the world is unfair to men or women, but because every single nation that is to fight in the next war UNDERSTANDS that sending the women off to fight the war and keeping the men home to maintain the nation and raise the children is going to result in their destruction. Its not that men WANT to be the ones working and dying in wars -- its thats we are better (ON AVERAGE) designed through evolution to handle the physical demands of both those things, and women (ON AVERAGE) are better equipped to nurture and develop future generations. How some women find that insulting is beyond me.
80teg it's funny you say they are better at nurturing but the statistics on fatherless homes would say otherwise
The first part of your argument was very eloquently put. I completely agree.
I agree with the second part as well, I just thought your first point was more eloquent.
@@beeh293 that's a bit nonsensical. Single-mothers still carry the same capacity for nurturing, and childless women still exhibit a great capacity for nurturing. I feel that fatherless households reflect the inability of the young men in certain cultures to accept responsibility or see adulthood as a necessary priority, more than it being a reflection of the woman's capacity to keep them in the household.
80teg Absolutely 100% agree.
@@MatthewGlover lol
Paul Elam is a world treasure
The whole history of the Red Pill film has been a case study in the hypocrisy of Feminism.
Oh... So these women are now not the Radical brand of Feminism so please don't think bad of Feminism - Really? Every time they thought they could get away with it they tried to refer to Patriarchy.
Whatever.
Cassie Jaye will go down in history. This epic film is the death knell for Feminism. They fought her, and they lost. The two Feminists on the panel was on the defensive - and I think they know - Feminism is toxic. And their lame distancing themselves from the "Radical Feminists" - nope - we don't buy it.
Feminism is Cultural Marxism. It is hatred towards men. More aggressive at times and sometimes less aggressive - but it is what it is. Full Stop.
Paul Elam - hats of dude. You are awesome. You answered to the point. Accurate. Well reasoned.
Erin Pizzey - what a seasoned war horse this old girl is. The Feminists can't slip a sly one past her. It is clear why Feminists don't dare engage with her in a debate.
Cassie Jaye did a very brave and remarkable thing while making The Red Pill. She looked into her soul and honestly saw her own deep prejudice against men - and eradicated it. It takes courage to face your fundamental beliefs, realise they are wrong, and change them. It may be the feminists on the panel are going down that road but are not ready to acknowledge such a deep-rooted belief that shapes their lives, and so can't help but keep coming back to 'but ... but ... we're oppressed!". Or maybe I'm just being charitable.
Cultural what? ehh
Bill Meyer so if feminism is toxic is menist toxic too both groups have faults in my opinion
Bill Meyer love your summary. I feel the same. This film is the tipping point. You have to be so rigidly entrenched in your own dogma not to see the truth of this film. The fact that it's being banned shows how feminism is just a fascist movement like so much from the left.
Bill Meyer I know where you are coming from I would respectfully like to ask how the MRA would handle the situation in Saudi Arabia and other countries that burn women alive because their husband doesn't like them? Or where they can't step foot from their house without a male escorte? How would a platform based on the rights of men be helpful in countries where men have all the rights?
I don't think feminism has a place in devolved countries, in fact when I am in the USA I am an MRA. However, when I do activism in other countries I am feminist because I very much believe that it is needed in some places.
if it's about class and not about gender, why call it feminism? the label doesn't fit
nailed it
Well, that's the *bingo* moment, isn't it?
If you search the story of feminism and it's true beginnings, you'll see that it started on divorce, custody laws, etc. It was always about hate of men. As said in the video, 'patriarchy', 'matriarchy', etc. Affect everyone. It's cultural problems that some hateful women in spite blamed all on men, while men in power always helped these women achieve these demands they had.
When the idiot with the glasses in center sais "I have no idea", probably the wisest she'd been all evening
Cassie Jaye will stand the test of time and she will be hailed in years to come for her accomplishments
I think the best way to describe the problems with feminism is, that they want the same results as men has in society but not the sacrifice/work to reach that point.
Feminism is like, oh you got a GOLD MEDAL, I am entitled to have one to now. But I don't want to work as hard as you did to earn it
You soumd life my gf. But it's not a gold medal. It my paycheck after i work 50hours a week and she works 20.
Feminism = Female version white Supremacy.
"We don't talk about sex enough as a society"
wut
I'm not even sure how we could discuss it more.
They’re British don’t try to understand them
we dont talk about sex in that its only ok to talk about sex if the narrative is that sex is bad or taboo or oppressive to women in some way. otherwise sex is censored everywhere, sex is seen as inappropriate to talk about almost everywhere, hell a guy cant even tell his hot coworker how hot he thinks she is and that he would love to have sex with her if he has the chance, but no... thats wrong right, thats sexual assault, in fact some people go as far as calling that rape in itself, he would be fired at work or at the very least be forced to go partake in som kind of programmed designed to reform him into some pansexual non binary thought experiment because him showing any kind of sexual attraction in the work place is the prime example of what toxic male masculinity, sex is silenced.
i find it interesting that say in the 1930s a guy at work would pinch a girls ass as she walks by, and the girl may or may be upset, but nothing really comes of it, and in general women were sexually happy back then, now if a guy pinches a girls ass its a severe sexual assault, the mans life can and will be ruined from it, and yet, women nowadays are in general sexually unsatisfied.
@@acehighdan All I can read is "I harass my coworkers and they complain about me." do you really think woman where happier 100 years ago just because they couldn't complain at that time? There's nothing wrong with talking about sex. Telling someone you would love to f**k them and pinching the ass of someone is harassment. How would you feel if a guy pinches your ass and telling you how he would love to f**k you? Would you see it as a compliment?
@@IchhabezuvielUA-camgegucktO_o really? you dont like what i said and so you respond with what you think is a witty comeback as to who you think i am ? idiot, youre not even worth the time it took for me to write this response.
@@acehighdan you ever heard of rap music?
The lady from the audience that's speaking at 45:00 is spot on.
"no shame in being a man" as the lady next to him raises her eyebrows and tries to hide it.
At least these feminists are willing to talk,
talk is cheap...i think is the saying
Talk, but not listen lol. That’s what women excel at... talk talk talk
trust me.. its only because they're minority, if there were more femminist on their side, they would surely talk differently, that's female nature for you.
Redpill 101: do not listen to a woman's words. Pay attention to their actions.
they're willing to lie.
My 15 year old son told me the other day that as a white western male the world sees him as the "worst person ever" 😢
Well... Tell him to get a tan!
Sorry... I just couldn't resist. I'll just see myself to the door now...
Your son is a critical thinker to have figured this out at such a young age. Hats off to your son. It took me almost 3 times longer to figure that out.
I get what he means.
LOL not really he’s not black, or muslim
You can't be serious... omg
Paul Elam has been on point flawlessly.
at 12:47 - the smug look on the face of the woman wearing glasses pissed me off. the gentleman was speaking about the violence throughout the history of feminism and it's blatantly obvious it has happened. the fact that she's smirking is just so condescending 😒
i ...think thats just her face..?
It's a feminist, what did you honestly expect. Any decent female that is a feminist nowadays either doesn't know enough about feminism to care. Or is an anti feminist/humanist/egalitarian.(Obviously there are exceptions to the rule but their a rarity not the norm.)
You can see she was writing. she wasn't even listening to what he was saying. She was smiling at her own thoughts.
I think they really tried to sound mainstream at the beginning, but we heard that feminist shaming and lecturing start to break through as time went on.
Ashley Klug yeah she seemed right off the bat a bit of a cunt. “I already knew all of what was said”
I accidentally just stumbled upon The Red Pill trailer and was totally surprised. I was certain I would be outraged and instead, I was overcome by empathy. When I came across this panel discussion, I was also certain that I wasn't going to be persuaded. Wrong again. What a powerful and productive example of civil discourse. And then to read the most civil UA-cam comments I've ever come across. All of this has encouraged me to engage in and feel optimistic about more of these conversations. Part of me thinks that a big part of the problem is in using these labels to identify ourselves -- while on the one hand they can provide a positive, healthy sense of belonging, on the other hand they can cause us to shut down dialogue before it even begins. Clearly, meeting one another in a spirit of respect and shared humanity, ready to listen and learn and yes, even change our minds, seems much more fruitful. I think finding solidarity in our shared struggles can lead to our shared liberation.
People generally don't know why they believe what they believe. People are largely ignorant as to what exactly motivates and animates their belief systems.
A lot of feminists subscribe to that belief system *not because they have made a thorough analysis of society and culture at large and come to a conclusion* (hardly anyone does) --- but because it validates their need to feel empowered psychologically. The belief system serves a different purpose for them, which is to have a sense of self grounded in some sort of emotionally coherent network of tropes.
They believe in patriarchy, but they can *hardly* pin-point exactly what it is. They don't know what they mean when they say patriarchy, the very word conjures up from the subconscious frightening images of stern fathers and repressive political systems and all the dark sides of masculinity, and it's these images and sensations associated with the word that animates their belief in the concept. It's not a rational analysis. The patriarchy is an archetype of evil, and they project that image on to the world. We don't see the world as it is, we see ourselves, our own subconscious projections and if we don't get to work on getting to discovering ourselves and our implicit biases, idiotic presuppositions and irrational motivations we have no hope in clearing this mess up. Ideologies like feminism is like a parasite on people's subconscious life, it feeds them *a story that makes sense subconsciously, where they get to be the righteous hero who fights against an utterly corrupt world *. All ideologies does this, all ideologies turns people into *puppets* that are having their strings pulled by the implicit logic and mythological framework of the ideology possessing them.
That's why we have to talk. When we talk, and are willing to listen, we'll discover how stupid we are. If you don't know that you're stupid as all hell, you won't be humble, and if you're not humble, you can't listen.
Yeaown Dude or Dudette that is a solid point. lovely to see some rationality left in this world
Yeaown Wow! The best thing I have read in a very long time
Damn, this is gold to someone who is in the middle of an ideaological crisis or willing to rethink their world view. I will show this text to some people i know if you don't mind.
Yeah why don't we believe in father Xmas or unicorns or even god any more...A belief can be gone in an instant like Cassie's belief in feminism. Staying fixed is not growing....Cassie is doing what feminists are just arguing about.
yes its so much easier to point the blame finger, my life is your fault, not mine.
"One can be a feminist and an MRA"
Let's just call it what it is... an Equalitarian. Which is what I am... I don't see the need to label myself with one or the other group.
Filthy Peasant Gaming
I think egalitarian is probably the word you are thinking of.
lol where the fuck did you get that from. Narrative came from the latin word for story
You guys are gonna let feminism keep it's strength, all of it is bad because of it's premise regardless of if it helped an sweet old lady across the street once. Quick history lesson shows women had rights. As freedoms increased so did theirs until feminism crept in because of gynocentrism, our hypersensitivity towards women.
I like that. My religion is to always equate everything to everything else. Its the best religion, in that there can never be any disagreement.
@7:50 "I would echo that as well, I think it is a socio-economic problem.
Man asks- "If it's socio-economic, why would you call yourself feminists?"
@14:38 " Well, from my point of view i'm not saying that feminism is about socio-economic things..."
They literally don't even know what they're fighting for. I'm getting the feeling that they simply enjoy having the title feminists, and blindly continue to "fight the good fight" for a cause they seemingly don't even have a purpose for.
It sounds worse if they admit that theyre sexist though
wasn't that obvious from like many years ago?
REAL femminist fought about about choices.
women have the choice and access to EVERYTHING now, so why do femminism still exist? also why they don't go to fight in country where its really needed, and keep talking about it where they already have 100% spectrum of choices+privileges... that's the question :D of course i know the answer but its so obvious even to write it down
THANK YOU Cassie Jaye!!! for your wonderful film. I watched it with my teenage daughter and son. This film is the antithesis of group ideology and why it is so toxic. Problems are never solved with blame.
The 50 shades of gray thing. 50 shades, even according to people who live bdsm lifestyles say that they relationship in it is an abusive one and isn't really bdsm.
Sad that no one asked a question to Erin Pizzey, i'd like to hear more from her.
That first gentleman in the audience... Thank you for making your position. absolutely. clear. ... Searing.
jsummer979 such a beautiful dismount.
That was brutal.
Like... I was ashamed on the behalf of the feminists...
Yea I saw that
‘I relinquish my microphone and thank you for making your position clear’ MIC DROP BICH!!! Lol
I am a women myself and used to hold feminist views and this documentary opened my eyes exactly in the way the title metaphorically described it. I laid down my ignorance towards men's issues and also can't agree to these radical groups that influence are media landscape so tremendously these days. I oppose them where ever I can to show other women that we in fact are on the wrong path believing in this modern pseudo-feminist narrative.
The only shame is that the documentary is hardly available to the public. I know Cassie Jaye deserves credit and the funds to keep on her fight but we need to be honest, that the smallest amount of young people these days will pay to watch this documentary. It is currently available on PRIME in Europe where I have seen it for the first time, but just stumbled upon it by total accident, which is a shame because it is so well made and important. Nobody really knows about it, but I think it could be the most impactful groundwork for a countermovement to finally get rid of wokeness, pseudo-feministm and the general gender war narrative which has just gotten out of hand and gets worse by day.
Thank you so much Cassie Jaye to help me open my mind and realize a truth to which my mind was blind to by media manipulation. Keep it on and produce more content regarding that topic and get it your to the young women and men that desperately need to see it although they don't yet know they need to.
I didn't hate feminists as hard as prior to watching them respond to your film. Thank you for making this.
Ecclesia xx - Amen!!
Zz Zzzz This isn't about hating people.
Instead of being as straight as an arrow with your hate, the better thing to do would be to understand that viewpoints differ. Its not helping to say "I hate". Would say that its pretty counterproductive
Don't hate, don't be angry, don't be human. Go fuck yourself, you are a traitor to our species and our culture.
*Patriarchy*
The 5 most powerful people in Britain are women
*Patriarchy*
and you know what is still the same? Hoes mad.
The fact of the matter is that only a woman could have done this. Only a woman, with an open mind, who wasn't afraid of the 'red pill' effect or the potential ego death involved in the changing of, perhaps a belief held so deeply that they identify by it. Only a woman, through a woman's eyes and voice, could put this together and at the same time, have the sincerity to do it fairly and without the bias of preconceived notions clouding the message.
Rick
Well. She does admit to having preconceived notions. But that didn't effect her work though, in fact it is what made it all the better, her transformation on this journey down the rabbit hole was quite cool to watch. You could see the cogs grinding away as she just sat there staring blankly at the floor during one of her "diary sessions".
The one point that everyone seems to forget about there being too many men in politics is that it's the women who vote for the men! I mean honestly, if it's such a problem tell women to start voting for women.
What an impressing accomplishment, Cassie jaye. You are making history.
djmc ninjarobot yeah history as the world's biggest lying, Uncle Tom kisser of hairy male asses ever. How is your "documentary" objective and unbiased when you got every penny of funding for it from MRAs and that sissy misogynist attention ho Milo Yanowhatever? You are proud of this unwatchable POS that only two critics even bothered to watch review and they both said it was biased, amateur garbage?
One pathetic reason you did this bs "documentary" was so your wimp boyfriend would finally put a ring on it lol. People should have seen her in an interview holding her cheesy lil ring up flashing it around talking about how before she did the "documentary" she had a feminist mindset that made her "start unnecessary arguments" with him. Cassie don't blame your own flaky, argumentative personality on feminism you phoney.
If it weren't for the rights feminists have fought for on behalf of women you wouldn't even be able to go to university, study film and do your shit movie. You got where you are on the shoulders of feminist and now all you do is kiss men's asses and tell them their little individual anecdotal sagas about mean, bad women they got themselves involved with trump the millions and millions of well-researched documented lives of women suffering REAL abuse, rape and murderers (up to and including the FBI reports that American men kill their wives, girlfriends and female exes to the tune of 1300 per year in the US alone) suffered by women at the hands of men globally.
So now you up on top looking down your nose at the feminists who fought long and hard for your rights going "Thanks for the boost bitch!"and thumbing your nose at feminists. How dare you!
Doing interviews while waving you hand around like a damn ditzy beauty queen and claiming you were a feminist? Girl please.
And as if! As if it was some accomplishment to get that nobody dweeb to finally give you a ring--you were never a feminist, as most true feminists don't believe in the male created institution of marriage. You lying, sellout, desperate ole dog.
Unjaded Realist men need help and that’s a fact, women are now superior in a we the people society and it’s scary cause men are losing jobs from false rape claims, and male deaths are super high because of discrimination. Men are the victims here
@@unjadedrealist4416 her goal was to shine more light onto men’s problems not avoid women’s issues. Equality is a 2 way street
Imagine getting a *PhD* in feminist concepts and looking at yourself in the mirror with a straight face.
I find it funny that some of these women, which happen to be British, keep talking about Patriarchy and the Law makers and so on, but forget their main powerful character, whose face is in all the Common Wealth (including Canada) money is the Queen Elizabeth.
Is that patriarchal?
United States Australia act like bitches
41:25 She lost me when she said women can't rape.
So a lesbian is physically incapable of raping her partner? What if a man is drugged without his knowledge so that he has to stay hard for someone he doesn't like and made to penetrate her? What about women who wear strap-ons? What about transgender male to female who haven't had surgery on their genitals? Is she saying that they aren't women because they are capable of rape?
I would seriously like to see the hoops she would jump through to rationalize these situations as not being rape. And she considers herself a moderate feminist.
Heatherea The problem here stems from how UK and european law is defining rape. She's technically correct and at least to me, her facial expression clearly indicates that she's not agreeing with the current definition of rape vs serious sexual assault.
She didn't say a woman can't rape, she said a woman can't be prosecuted for rape. She made a claim about the law.
Rape is a legal term. Under UK law, a woman can't rape a man, its called sexual assault. That's not her opinion, that's fact.
@@TheIceMurder2 Just becauseits a law doesnt make that statement true ... a woman can rape a man
@@theashologist You're not understanding what I'm saying. Of course a woman can force a man to have sex with her and she'll be committing a crime of course. It just isn't called "rape" under UK law. Rape isn't a layman's term, it's a legal one.
16:40 "There are not many working class people in the high powered jobs in the fortune 500"
No shit, if you achieve that level of success, you're no longer working class.
I think you will find they mean people who come from a working class family.
you don't just change class... working-class millionaire is still from a working-class background. Their children's class would change.
thealleykittens Yes you do...
Dunam if you worked to be rich, then you are working class, you were just really good at being working class.
It depends on who is having the conversation about the working class person who got rich. The term new money summarizes true wealth from one generation
So happy to see DoctorRandomer on this panel!
Did he get a chance to speak? I'm skimming through and can't find an instance
Nope, not once aside from his little intro.
He does not usually talk much.
What was the point of him being there? Strange.
Actually he was screaming the entire debate "These women are batshit crazy!!!!!", but in body language only. Very thoughtful of him. Very British.
"Its a socio economic issue, Not a gender issue" why make it about gender then by calling yourself a feminist. Be a socialist, it's less internally contradicting.
This point is what it boils down to. The term Feminism is implicitly gendered, exclusive, divisive and the movement has become increasingly chauvinistic. The panel don't want to admit their gynocentrism for fear of being labelled as such. They say, that's not my Feminism. The other ones are not doing it right. They are now painting white, well off men as the patriarchy in desperation to perpetuate the idea of a systemic and uniquely female oppression. This plays into Paul's later point about viewing everything through their narrow lens. It's a form of solipsism.
To be post-feminist as it were and look beyond gender as the main determinant of a person's suitability for a given role or victim hood requires you to leave bias behind and look to the issues that affect us all. It's a step too far for many group-thinkers to stand alone, compete on equal terms and with all comers. Traits are what determines success in life, which should be especially true now all areas of society have opened up to Women's choices.
Transparent Marxist game theory. There's a boogie man. It's a socio-economic issue. Let's blame those who control the means of production, which is conveniently still men.
Cassie Jaye, I hope you see this one day. I’m late to the party, only hearing of the film today. I watched it on iTunes, and I’m just absolutely blown away. You did such a great job remaining balanced, and also transparent with your own cognitive dissonance. That transparency was truly refreshing. I learned, I laughed, and I cried. Beautiful job. Sorry I’m 3-4 years late.
I think a large part of these male/female issues come down to biological differences that evolved over millennia in a very different world. We have to accommodate our biology into these discussions and talk about how mobile and flexible those biological really factors are. My thoughts are that there is a large part of these issues that we will just have to accept, though I don't like saying that.
Men are disposable for good reason, if there is 1 man and 100 women it's very easy to repopulate the tribe, reverse that 1 women and 100 men you have a lot of problems, this small difference matters and it's exactly why we send men off to war to die and keep the 'tribe' alive. Our biology drives our thoughts and actions to some degree, or in other words ultimately female life is more valuable from a genetic perspective, this reality does drive our feelings towards men and women. What can we do about it? I'm not sure certainly we can accommodate these differences to some degree but our history as humans will always be a factor.
The reason of your question is because men (generally speaking) are stronger and their bodies are better fitting to war and fight, unlike women....
What happened to the 20-minute segment on male genital mutilation?
It got cut.
What the FUCK is your problem?
49:14. I rest my case.
Want to hear a funny feminist joke?
Your eggs are dead.
😂😂😂😂
Highlight of the debate comes at 43:48 the woman on the stairs! Everyday reality statement. Brilliant!
Incredible panel. I watched the whole thing. Thank you so much for making this film.
37:30..... wow, the question about Christian Grey and his bimbo certainly triggered a few in the audience.
When she rolled her eyes at him for asking to be okay with being human I scoffed so hard I almost bit my tongue.
Thank you all for being speakers. I found it interesting to hear several points that were brought up. Special thank you to Cassie for making this film. If a man had made it no one would have paided any attention to it.
I am so glad to see this because I hardly ever get to see any actual debates like this on any media platform. It makes me feel like the media is constantly trying to drive a wedge between society.
I love what you do for humanity Cassie Jaye. Thank you for sharing this.
39:51 WATCH THE WATER BOTTLE
Guess she wasn't thirsty after all.
LMFAO
Wtf....still trying to figure it out lol
RE: condescending feminist woman with glasses:
49:19 - referred to bearing children as something she "cannot do"
43:14 - SNAPS at the question about gynocentrism, yelling that "historically...our value was in our fertility"
That's a small sign, but i'm pretty sure her quest of feminism is an angry revenge against her inability to have kids.
That's just something to think about for those girls who can; and remember women are not forced to bear kids by patriarchy, women are simply the only ones who can.
this is why MGTOW is on the rise
yup, it is on the rise and has doubled in popularity in the last year alone. funny part is some feminists despite there SUPERIOR minds can't figure out why.
Mgtow is for men who are sexist..bottom line. They're stating that they feel females as a whole are so bad that it will be impossible for them to find one who's good enough to develop a relationship with them. The whole ideology behind it is so arrogant and pathetic that I don't understand how people can even take it seriously. It's something made up by a pathetic little witch boy in his parents basement who is been rejected by women because of his own flaws or because he's going for women who are of poor character or are out of his league his whole life and has deduced because of his own failings that all women are evil or bad or flawed in some way and therefore he is completely given up on the concept of a healthy happy relationship. That is the most pathetic thing I've ever heard in my life.
@Boi Banana I didn't play myself. With an ignorant statement and you have absolutely no facts to back it up with.lmao. there's absolutely no double standard c7 is mm3 all feminism is gender equality. Nothing more nothing less. If that's what you truly think then you're ignorant to what time it is in truly is and you have a false idea based on incorrect belief that you have about feminism
@Boi Banana it's hypocritical for me to want women to be treated as humans when you feel the on dehumanizing mgtow. It's a given and should go without saying that women need to be treated as humans for fucksake. We are humans we're not listen human just cuz we don't have a dick. If someone truly doesn't want to have a relationship with a woman that's fine. That's everyone's decision whether they want to have a relationship with a woman or with a man or whatever. People don't need relationships to fulfill their lives. However the entire basis of mgtow movement is the belief that women will look them over. They believe that women is a whole are inherently bad and we'll end up doing something to harm. That is sexist pure and simple. And I never said anything about every single person that she's has to do that for their life. I'm talking about the movement itself and the people who created the movement and who named it and who advocate for it. Big difference.
@Boi Banana And what the hell do you mean no woman has a right to dictate how man lives his life based on her perception of attractiveness? What does that mean. How does that even apply to anything I'm saying? Are you saying that because a woman doesn't find you attractive she's dictating how you live your life? Please explain what the f*** that statement means because it sounds crazy.
I was talking to my feminist friend (a girl), and she asked, as this was a crazy concept, what disadvantages men faced, I mentioned custody cases, as women win them at a much higher rate. She then made it into a disadvantage for women because it was the maternal societal norm created by men that women are better parents or should be the one who takes care of the child. If that isn’t proof of the blinding power of third wave feminism, then I don’t know what is.
Yeah I struggle to take feminists seriously sometimes. We must though in order to fix the problem. Intellectual conversations can open eyes.
They all acknowledged being aware of these issues already yet never speak out on these issues. They don’t make these points part of their platform. So clearly, either their feminism isn’t actually about gender equality or they don’t care about the issues.
I was there. felt very lucky to see and talk to a few very respectable people. Erin Pizzey in particular.
This dialogue is so important. Thank you for this!
I remember when I was 17, in my first ever sales job, it was about 15 women and 3 guys, and it was about 6 months into my job after becoming friendly with everyone...and the sales manager (woman) used to jokingly flirt with me and say things like "when your grown up ;) " ...All that was friendly banter, one day I was stood up kinda bent over my desk on the phone, and as I was on the phone she bit my butt cheek and started laughing, all the rest of the girls were laughing like "omg Laura hahahaha"...At the time I kinda laughed it off, but whenever I hear a feminist talk I always think back to that lol normally ends with me stroking my butt cheek
I had the same kind of problem...
A woman in my lab touched my ass "for fun" while I as working (I have only women in my lab). I joked in return like "hey do you know anything about consent?". My boss (another woman) answered "we all know you love it". For fun...Absolutely... So what if I do the same thing to a female colleague?
also my boss saying "the problem with men is that they don't erect anymore when they are older than 30 and they ejaculate in 5 seconds when they are under 30". How uncumfortable I felt...
@@stillpill2672 That's crazy yo
I worked in a clothing store when I was 16 I was there for 18 months and I couldn't tell you how many times I've had my bum pinched and slapped by women in their 40s that includes customers and staff, there was one woman who grabbed my bum every single time she was behind me on the stair case but on one occasion I was behind her on the stair case and the woman behind me grabbed her bum as to make it seem like it was me who done it the woman turned around and started going mental saying how she would have me fired this that and the other then the woman who did it piped up and said actually it was me not him and anyway you do it to him on a daily basis and she just says yeah well that's different if I do it to him he's a boy he loves it, I didn't love it one bit I just didn't want to hurt her feelings, working in a female dominated area really does show you what women are like and how they think and trust me isnt pretty.
I disagree with them bringing up capitalism as a problem. I don't think that capitalism hurts women.
Clearly not when women take out more than they put into society, leaving men's tax dollars to pick up the tab. (In the US at least)
They are also responsible for the 85% of all spending and account for the majority of spouses who control the finances in relationships.
To say women are victims in a capitalistic society is nothing short of infuriatingly ignorant.
Depends how you define capitalism.
It's the more socialist elements which seem to benefit women more. Though they benefit men too. ie most welfare is spent on women, men contribute most of the taxes.
You dont have to agree..its a debate.
Catherine McClain I don’t see how it would hurt women anymore so than men
no one said she did Casper.... we're all just voicing our opinions.
It really says a lot about the issue in general that I have to say I'm actually surprised to see this hour-long panel of completely rational, well-reasoned and civil discussion. This is exactly what society needs - which is one more reason to thank you, Cassie. I hope your work will be something that starts a larger cultural dialogue. We desperately need it.
this was actually a reaaallyl good and really respectful, even healthy and healing panel!! ONE OF THE BEST EVER!!!!
This really warms my heart. The dialogue is underway :D YAY!
Thank you, Cassie Jaye, for having an open mind. You really are a hero!
- a random black guy from America
I could watch the dynamic between Lucinda and Paul all day. These two should have their own show preferably on TV because the expressions on her face when Paul is talking...Priceless!!
Incredible how different the discussions had in England are in comparison to america. Far more respectful, far less polarized and only character who introduced himself aggressively had an american accent! This discussion was so peaceful and conversational on the most part, despite that all the Americans in the comments are so abrasive and oblique.
I was young when I saw how men and women treated each other in marriage. I decided then I was never getting married.
I was born in 1966 I'm 52 and happily never married.
This mgtow and feminist sjw lgb leftist group DEM's leftist so-called news outlets were never around when I was growing up. I figured it out on my own and I'm happy and I sit back watch the show.
Cassie Jaye, thanks very much for making this documentary. Is there any possible way to watch the unedited 20 minute portion of the documentary on MGM?
I have to say it's very refreshing to see an actual conversation between feminists and MRAs. Respect for the feminists taking part in this discussion. We need more of them.
I wasn't aware you had a youtube channel.
I wish every one could face their polar opposites with an open mind like you did. You are my heroine, Miss Jaye.
There's no "dialogue" to be made. It's too late already.
Women declared war, and sooner or later one has to face the consequences of her actions. No peace talks and no compromise.
They sold us and OUR CHILDREN to the government for money and protection. This is indeed beyond evil and violent. They have no clue what's started
Damn Cassie what you did at end was beautiful, to be honest like that and admit that you had wrong ideas wow big respect not many people are capable of doing that.
I'm floored by the civility and good faith shown by everyone who participated in this discussion, panelists and audience members alike. I'm glad the loud obnoxious protesters stayed away so a dialogue could take place for once! I saw the film and it is a must see!
Thank you. I cried after your closing words in the film
Great debate, but couldn't help notice the "no true Scotsmen" fallacy appearing quite frequently...
50 shades is an abusive relationship.
even when compared to bdsm standards
Cassie Jaye, thank you for making this film and showing what MRAs are really fighting for. I know a few people who have seen it and it has really made them think (men and women). I wish you nothing but the best in your future!
A difficult conversation to be had totally honest. I'm very happy that the conversation went well. I wish that more people could do this ... I don't feel like the MRAs felt they could open up and discuss it as it was an MRA crowd and the Feminist were obviously extremely brave to go there and you can see they didn't want to offend.
I wish I was there so that I could ask them who they think the second richest person in the world is. I see them continuously saying that it's men who make the laws that oppress men and ultimately it's up to men to change it (and that's what they're calling patriarchy), but they don't realize that most of those men are married and many have daughters and sisters. I don't believe that the women in the lives of those lawmakers and wealthy individuals have no say in what decisions are being made. It's asinine to believe that they don't at the very least consult their wives before making a choice. No man is an island after all.
Good point and don't forget that the wives of all these CEOs and highly paid men get to enjoy the benefits of the men's labour without having to achieve anything themselves and if the marriage fails they will usually get massive divorce settlements granted by our supposedly patriarchal courts. Just look at Tiger Wood's ex-wife. She walked away with about $250 million
It is not individuals who run things, but families. It has always been so.
Another point that didn't get an conclusion or proper consideration is that as the lady said a lot of women want a lay back life and that should be one of the reasons why in this day you still find more men.
I believe it's a choice, because in the past 30 years have come far enough for every women to become whatever they want, but if some positions are filled mostly with men that's because women don't go for them.
And the part when men get longer sentences for the same crime, saying that they are judged by male judges as an answer is very idiotic. I thought feminism was for both sexes but surely never heard the feminists talking about deaths of men or depression etc etc that when you think about it are more damaging than any other "right" that feminists want.
if a woman would start facebook apple then maybe they would be the one percent but they didn't
Getting your PHD in feminist theory, good luck with that.
Jordan TRusso I know, right? What use is it? How does it further the human race? Pointless and useless thing that shouldn’t exist.
Should be easy to pay off her loans while working at starbucks
What is you PhD in?
AlienPrincess ATX Common sense clearly. Smart people would skip the worthless degree and thousands in student loans and simply learn a trade and work for themselves while earning 3x what a Starbucks barista earns. Meanwhile the person with a degree in gender studies has 30k in debt and a dead end job that they could have gotten with simple GCSEs. I know which of those fictional people I would call smart. As I’ve always said being educated and being smart aren’t always synonymous.
@@kiznisha2562 exactly what I thought. the only people who bash a college education are people who don't have one.if you have no interest or desire to get a degree then that's fine. Pursue your own path in life but don't bash other people for doing something that is quite positive productive and necessary in order to live the type of life they want to live.it's absurd to imply that people who choose to get higher education don't have any common sense. SMH of course being educated and being truly intelligent aren't the exact same thing but they're not mutually exclusive as you imply either.
I'm so glad we have you..and Paul. My god. Awesome.
When you get feminists to explain their metaphysics, it always comes out like a crayon drawing about the last 500 years, instead of a mural about the last 50,000 years.
Almost 20 minutes in and the conversation has only been about personal feminist beliefs and not about the movie. Definitely reflects our everyday experiences where no issues are discussed because all the time is spent defending feminism using personal interpretations
This discussion was on my birthday!
This shows why discussions are so important
48:18 That couple minutes that she spoke, that's all I've ever wanted to hear a Feminist say, That's all I've ever wanted out of Feminism. And I'm glad to have heard her say it.
The interesting question also here if indeed this "patriarchy" is real and still in charge could these feminism ever have a voice? The "patriarchy" so powerful then is powerless now? How and when did that happened? Men dominating is for a reason? I bet if these feminist have male children, brothers, uncles, fathers, husband that close they will know both men and women complement each other. They work together as a team. One need the other to survive and it wouldn't be powerful game as they see it.
Imagine these point advocating for these ideas some 500 years ago. When things where hard and though. Men going for haunting for days, weeks and sometimes months. Will they ever advocate for women to go haunting in that cold? Or is it now the world is convenient all thanks to men's sacrifice? Sometimes I feel like these people are just ungrateful. Men sacrifice is not privilege.
*Erin Pizzey for the Nobel Peace Price 2020* .
She has done far more to solve the "war" in domestic settings than anyone else I can name.
Thank you so much for making The Red Pill. I can't believe that I had never heard of this before this weekend! Please contact me, I am working on a legal framework to create a Hyperledger Fabric to replace the Department of Child Support Services in California. I added my contact info to your page, last night. I am a father and a transfer student of legal studies.
If you want some help,check the Paul’s website and contact her from them
I once had a student, he was maybe 19, and he just became so emotional and distraught right in the middle of class because he found out his girlfriend was pregnant. I told my class to read a chapter, went out in the hall with the student and spent 15 minutes talking to and consoling him. As a 24 year old white male myself (at the time), I chose to comfort him and offered to try get him help for coping, I hope everything worked out for him but I never saw him again at school after that night.
The problem with most people, I have found, is that they never bother to look past themselves and those that think the same as them. They never attempt to try and understand what the problem is and explain why they are angry or so single minded. The biggest problem is with these people, they don't stop talking and just listen to and try to understand the other side. The last point, people will believe any lie they are told if it furthers their agenda.
43:47 The voice of reason. Sums it all up perfectly.
Thank you so much for this discussion, it has given me hope that there is validity in feminism and that a constructive intelligent and valid conversation can be had on this topic. Everyone on this panel was awesome - including the audience.
The simple fact that the red pill has received so much hateful and violent protest is certainly testament that extreme feminism is almost as bad as the white supremacist movement. I just don't understand the hate, as the doco is more balanced than anything that is usually presented in the issue. This IS the reason why feminist are labelled man haters.
I make a call to all true feminists. Actively denounce the corrosive and toxic (to use your own term) core of extreme feminism. You can do better. We can all do better.
This was a really nice watch. Thank you for uploading it.
It's a shame that in my 30 years this is the first time i have heard feminists talk with reason and logic.
Im Danish btw. Sorry about my poor English.
How does this have only 150K views? It's a beautiful debate. Like all debates, slightly cringy at times, but people handled themselves really well, made their points smartly and respectfully. The feminist representatives were very gracious even when rather aggressively confronted, and that was really great of them.
This showed that there is a path to de-escalation of the gender war provided reasonable people listen to each other's perspectives and experiences, accept them for what they are and then get to exchange about them.
There are a lot of emotions involved in movements that seek some kind of redress or recognition of sleight, and it shows here sometimes that listening and empathizing is not always easy, but it's possible.
Well done. How did the next day's screening go?