Dear RICHARD - This just blew my socks off ! > I remember my best friend, went to NYU to study psychology- and she took what she learned & applied it to everyone. Including me - including my friends, etc etc. Every interaction we had, she was evaluating me & pointing out my dysfunctional behavior/s, etc. Of course, I became very self conscious, well even more so than usual bc of being labeled & classified. - She constantly pointed out my “ faults “ - > Unfortunately, I was going through lots of big life challenges at the time, & what I really needed was a friend in my corner. € I went around feeling dysfunctional & so that drained my energy left & right. > I engaged in eastern philosophy by way of a self professed guru. ( I met him in the neighborhood ) > Then there was my older brother who was totally submerged in his born again - Christianity. - His response to everything is / “ Bring it to the Lord. You’re suffering bc you’re defiant of the Lord ! You’ve sinned ! “ ) - At that time I had no boundaries & no steam to push back. I let everyone dump on me. > Years later, another round of upheaval & turmoil, only this time I went to psych/clinic for CBT/ and sure enough, it didn’t help bc I was still role playing / therapist to the world - only I wasn’t aware. > I think the Christian philosophy got fused w. the clinic psychology. I did not get better. I just learned how to position myself as a clinician. > Here it is years later, and I’m still role playing clinician - w. everyone. Instead of taking care of myself. > One day I got really angry, and frustrated- and I decided to chuck out all these “ Be nice to everybody “ - “ Pray to God “ - “ You create your own reality “ etc. etc. - I just said “ No more “ trying to be an angel. I’m going back TK basics. I’m going to live like a kid before I went to school & got indoctrinated. I’m going to just BE me, & stop trying to make excuses for the mean people around me. I’m going to stop making excuses for people who treat me badly. Bc the bottom line is very simple. Nice people feel good. And mean people feel bad. And I just want to feel good again. 🐶❤️🦙 > That’s what I really truly want. 👇🏼 ✨💚✨
Don't hang your dirty laundry out in public, go get therapy. That is the safe place to feel the feelings and heal. Keep compassion and empathy separate. Boundaries. 🌱 I'm working on my healing and enjoying life again. Thank you Richard 🙌
Absolutely. I know what you mean. You end up 'rationalizing' what can only really be categorized as their evil. Most of psychology and psychotherapy is intended to keep us docile and content with an increasingly evil world.
Thank you. I had a clinical Counselor tell me that I needed to change because I was angry and bitter and no man would want me. At that point I was not asking about a new relationship but telling him it was hard and I felt sad because I was in the process of getting rid of all the belonging the narcissist left for me to deal with after I made him leave. It has taken me a long time to find a Counselor that could actually validate my experience. That validation has given me the space to start to heal.
That’s awful….. It’s amazing how impossible it is to find simple compassion and validation for painful feelings. I now understand the reason I found it so hard to find, was because I had been denied that since very early childhood. I’m finding it now. I hope you find it too x
This is so good.. That's why I kept going back to what broke me because I was so emphathetic trying to playing the role of "healer" 😑 It was so detrimental to my health. Now I know what they did to me was terribly wrong even though I understand the why but I have to set boundaries.
As a ‘client’ I really needed to hear that. Felt guilty and cognitive dissonance naming the abusive person’s abuse toward me ‘evil’ as I felt and understood his pain from studying in depth about his disorder. His pain was similar to mine (from childhood) so I felt a bond that I’ve never felt with anyone else, except I can’t imagine doing the things he did to me and others causing emotional and psychological pain. Thank you for saying it’s ok to call it what it felt like…bad and evil. I feel amazing relief.
Who hasn't suffered some type of pain coming from somewhere during childhood? What determines good or bad is how we deal with that pain. Causing others to suffer because of your pain is evil, period. Malignant narcissists are simply evil.
Yup…I’ve forgiven far too many times because an over responsibility of such ‘understanding/empathizing. Left me wide open for more abuse! This was very helpful!
I carefully imagined doing the same thing the narc did to me to an anxious friend of mine. It made me realise what a sustained piece of deliberate cruelty it was and far away from normal human behaviour it was.
As a psychotherapist you can and you should have a moral codex, you should be like an advocat for the core emotional needs of your client. As described here therapy seems to have a rather detached perspective. This contradicts the treatment approach that I am familiar with. I want to have a very clear moral compass on how my client should and should not have been treated, especially, but not only as a child.
Excellent topic & presentation! When I was a child, my parental unit would recite reasons for her own damaged disposition whist beating and torturing me in order to validate a reason that it was okay. Fiery rebel that I am, I have been acutely aware to insert phrases into conversations with those supporting lack of boundaries, something along the lines of “understanding why they abuse still does not give them the right to do so and you should not allow it to continue, (not associate if you are just an observer of the horror), otherwise you’re betraying yourself (or the one being abused). This came up a lot in spiritual bypassing groups.” I’m so happy to see you covering this topic! Very useful and much needed.
"The smallest worm will turn, being trodden on.“ 🐛 - William Shakespeare, Henry VI (play) Part 1-3 Clifford, Act II, scene ii. Henry VI, Part 3 (1592) 🦋 Well said Richard, our bodies keep score of and express repressed emotions to our detriment when we remain silent about abuse. Discern with detached compassion rather than judging or criticising. Honour our truths, inner convictions, intentional choices, standards and boundaries we've set to first do no harm and secondly be a good example for others of doing the right thing for the right reasons. What price peace, what payment for pearls? 💞🔥🕊
Our Therapist said it was all about perspective and allowing the other to have their own “reason” perspective for what they did . It covered the abuse . and my therapist actually got upset at me when I said I’m done with it . ( her ) abuse is abuse and should be called such .
Please, please be careful when choosing a therapist. My highly abusive ex is now training to be a counsellor in London. When I first met him 12 years ago he was receiving counselling for drug abuse and his counsellor turned up at a poetry event he was doing. She pulled me to one side and told me that I was a “very lucky girl”. He’s done his level best to destroy me ever since and still tries to this day.
Thank you richard, you can only heal by taking good boundaries for yourself , knowledge of good and bad , morals, everyone from healing must learn that . Including myself , we deserve respect . If not leave the toxic relationship. 😉👍
This was exactly the message I needed to hear right now. I feel I've been fighting with myself, in going to high levels of philosophy and understanding to move past my anger and really heal - and its clearly not getting me there...... still trying to be ok in my head with the abusers, still making excuses for them, as if that's the finally step to healing. In doing this, I feel a victim of the abuse, is continuing to abuse and shame Themselves! in the same way the abuser did, messing with a persons head. After quite a few years, I'm finally going back into therapy sessions, to address the horrific sexual abuse. Its time!
My old therapist was amazing in this way. I lived in an apartment building for abused mothers. She was a genuine gift. While the rest of the staff made us all to feel we were horrible women still strapped in an abusive relationship. She was a light in the darkness to all of us.
Thank you so much for the videos and information you post . My ex , was a narcissist and made my life a living hell . I’ve had 6 years of counselling to recognize the abuse he put me through and to heal from it . Best thing I did was react and kick him out !
I’ve just split from the bpd again and started watching these videos again, these are the only videos that get me adding a comment as if anyone actually reads it. But when I feel sad and alone at night It makes me feel good and is distracting from the pain the sadness of rejection that you’re mother will never be how you want them to be, they will always choose you over their addictions but you still try in your relationships to be chosen. I feel the same mindset and realise I’m understood and accepting and making peace I wish I could do.
A narcissistic abuse podcast I listened to dealing with revenge says it causes chaos for both parties. And the famous “hurt people hurt people” And to think of it this way. Which I think is true to an extent. This thinking is what made me always have too much empathy for people who mistreated me. That along with my more recent misunderstanding of eastern non dualistic religions.and growing up Catholic too. As long as I can remember one of the only attributes my dad ever praised me about was that I was so “forgiving” …but now I’m learning I was appeasing to an abusive mother and he never stood up to her. To this day no one has stood up to her. I don’t have much contact with her anymore but it’s what led me to have empathy for another man who I unconsciously allowed to use and mistreat me. I ran into him accidentally and wanted to physically hurt him.. I’m so angry at the powerlessness I feel.
Same history of NPD mom, flying monkey Dad and huge family, using the faith to condemn me. I was Catholic from pre-Vatican II, wandered back into ancient mysticism and theology, beauty of Latin Mass and music, and theology of judgment, helped me to judge the harm done to me letting God be the eternal judge. Now suffering from NPD abusive adult son/gf, starting process all over again with loss of faith, anger, self-accusation, etc. Dad dead, Mother-no contact, son/gf-moved them out. Healing in first most painful days. Hang in there! Listen, read, distract, work, walk, opera, Latin Mass with a great choir in beautiful church, art, nature, beauty of this short life. Immerse yourself and heal. I am there too. We bear the stripes on our back and can be made whole.
You couldn’t have said it better. I even feel like sharing this video with my therapist (as well as rubbing this on my ex NPD BF), but I’ll keep it to my own knowledge and personal growth. Thanks for this and the other great videos. Cheers 🇦🇺 .
this is so important, especially for codependents. i am allowed to know the difference between good and evil. yes, my abuser had a rough childhood, but so did I. And what they do is wrong. lying is wrong, using people is wrong, borrowing money is wrong, ruining someones reputation is wrong. you have to face up to the fact that you let this person in, and you ignored the first few times they screwed you over. I did that. I partook in that. but I don't have to anymore. you have to get your self respect and dignity back.
Cognitive empathy is the word I've always used to describe what you called "Cold Empathy". It's being able to map out someone's psyche based on how they personally think. Of course, it can be pretty accurate if you don't know someone but it's even more powerful once you've come to know how the individual thinks. To me Empathy has always been understanding, not warm displays of compassion. To me it's compassion via understanding someone. You can't be detached enough to be able to be empathetic, and simultaneously also be outwardly warm and compassionate all the time. It's like a teeter totter, the more you go in one direction the further you're pulled from the other. It's a balancing act.
Great video! "I was in an emotionally abuse relationship, and it fucked me up" and it's ok to say this and to say what was done is WRONG!" I watch you and Sam Vaknin very closely and this is so very important to the individuation process. To learn to believe in ourselves again. Thank you!
Yep! I tried a therapist after doing a lot of good work healing away from my situation…her input made me question my progress, feel like I was in the wrong and that he did actually love me and I should give him another chance! 🤷🏻♀️🙈 no help whatsoever in this case…thank God I felt it wasn’t working for me and chose to battle thru on my own to find more experientially validating resources online and studying a lot of psychology myself…
For the first time in years I feel a bit better and that's for speaking out what happened in the past. At the same time making steps saying what I think about others and setting boundaries. I stopped learning psychology because I know I wanna master helping people with the things I never had myself. I also did this in my career started somehow from a codependent role. Thanks for your given insights , starting another path on my journey in what is good or bad and what really suits me.
My partner’s 30 year old daughter is one of the most vile creatures I’ve ever come across. He sees a little girl while she lies and sucks away at him. So sad to watch.
I’ve forgiven far too many times because an over responsibility of such ‘understanding/empathizing. Left me wide open for more abuse! This was very helpful! Thank you!!
All the trauma has to come out and than u will see the light.. I was almost at the light but my therapist took a two weak vacation with no therapist to even back him up...I felt so abandoned and made more walls around the light.. but I believe a good therapist and reliving and even remembering in a safe place can lead to a huge shift in consciousness
An auto accident 40 years ago, 18 years old, no seatbelt, forehead hit dashboard at 30-40 mph. - right orbital rim skull fracture. Executive Function impaired, long emotional pathways damaged, pituitary gland partially disconnected from hypothalimus Officially diagnosed Bipolar2, (cycles into despair but does not lose touch with reality) Disassociative disorder, Borderline, No self esteem, Loss of Identity, and the emotional maturity of a three year old, but IQ intact. Psyche ward 8 months before discharged to live by myself. Drifted five years, lost first baby from welfare malpractice at 10 months stillbirth because brain couldn't produce hormones for labor. Married a certified narcissist. 18 plus years of gaslighting. Married 2nd husband 13 years ago, hoping to find a partner who could take care of himself, before seeing your videos, and not realizing I am a narcissist magnet. He knows how to take care of himself with my disability check, incapable of taking care of me. We are legally separated. Do you accept charity cases.
Yep. Agree wholeheartedly. I don't agree that a person without boundaries can safely engage in Therapy. How can they navigate that interpersonal space with no boundaries? I don't see how it's possible to manage that effectively other than by sheer fluke.
Being discerning about the type of relationship that you want is a standard, I have forgiven the bpd,narc in my life,with no desire for a relationship with her,but wish that she herself would get help.I am at peace with this.
So so good analogy to physical therapy… gotta do the work dedication to it to get to health. I recovered from two hip surgeries.. so this makes since. Love this.. morality and judgment. Narcissistic toxicity.. I believe is is a spiritual battle. It’s an energy, on spiritual level.. that destroys! The battle is against this spirit.. the human who has this spiritual disease.. who causes all this brokenness, heartbreak, wounds, complete inability to be intimate to have empathy.. connection to anyone , on a heart level.. this is not an option for this condition!
Someone stole something from my home, after giving it consideration, the next time they called, said i was in the middle of something, and shut the door in their face. Gone are the days of being polite and making excuses, giving some benefit of doubt to abusers, these fools need the cold shoulder. I don't feel bad about it, quite the opposite, honoured myself, and loved myself enough to enforce my boundaries. Hopefully you all have the strength to do what you need to do. Have the strength and courage to take the action you know needs taking. Honour yourself, and love yourself. Have a great day.
"People of the Lie" The Case for Evil by Scott Peck, helped me years ago. I had trouble leaving a bad relationship or " condemning". The distinction is important to have boundaries at all.
'People of The Lie; Towards a Psychology of Evil', is one of my top 10 'saved my sanity' books. M.Scott Peck wrote this after he had the (quite rare) experience of finding faith in Jesus Christ very late in life.
Exactly NOT my experience with the therapist(s) I've dealt with. I'm not trying to entitled and borderlinesque here, I felt judged, gaslighted, treated as an object and re traumatized. Nothing has done more damage over the years than those visits, The fear is so real that even tho I really know I need help and I really want to go there to give it another try I'm simply to scared to step into stalins office again
Maybe a good therapy would start agnostic but then would switch gear towards the moral code of the patient / client then go universal ......what works what doesn't etc
I heard ‘the crappy childhood fairy’ therapist say CPTSD can look like narccicism. But it seems CPTSD is something that can cause NPD. Can people learn to be more centred on others? Like when someone takes on a new world view, spiritual experience.
You’ve missed a significant difference between therapeutic modalities. Person centred therapy is as you describe but therapists don’t always hold PCT as the holy grail - my approach is to offer insight into NPD using clear language of criteria - ie to name it. And the client makes the match. Once match is made it’s easier to explore the abuse. Sometime we need to name the abuse too. I like the word AND, your partner has NPD and we can have compassion for their humanity once we acknowledge that NPD is a post traumatic defence. So this isn’t about condemnation it’s about understanding.
judge verb judged; judging Definition of judge (Entry 2 of 2) transitive verb 1 : to form an opinion about through careful weighing of evidence and testing of premises 2 : to form an estimate or evaluation of trying to judge the amount of time required especially : to form a negative opinion about shouldn't judge him because of his accent 3 : to hold as an opinion : GUESS, THINK I judge she knew what she was doing 4 : to sit in judgment on : TRY judge a case 5 : to determine or pronounce after inquiry and deliberation They judged him guilty. 6 : GOVERN, RULE -used of a Hebrew tribal leader We have been trained by media, and other parrots, to avoid critical thinking. To judge, is to use your reason to draw conclusions. Yes, Hitler and Stalin and most cluster B personality disordered people comes from really bad upbringing but at the same time, that doesn’t mean we need to forget and forgive every malicious act they performed. In regards to spiritual believes, the problem is those believes where NOT for the common folk. In ancient times, such believes ( content/knowledge) was reserved for a small, tried, spiritual advanced, tiny, group of people. What we get nowadays is a spiritual degraded mash of believes, full of contradictory notions, inside of people mostly spiritual unprepared and unfit to even know those believes. But they think themselves “able” and they mix it with psychological knowledge, and manipulation tactics. We have been programmed to be absolutely pedestrian, unoriginal, attached to our vices and families, because reason implies challenge to the status quo, and challenges implies the pursuit of freedom. But in order to BE free, you need first to BE.
Yes, I do think it's important to understand where someone is coming from in doing a bad deed but that doesn't mean that I have to accept it. I can understand and still choose to cut contact. I think that's also a common topic in true crime stories. The stories of these mass murderers are told, including their (often) fucked up childhood but at the end of the day that's not intended to make us say "aww, he doesn't deserve going to prison for this since it's rooted deeper to other people in his life". Yeah, life is fucking unfair. But you have to stop the whole thing at some point. Just because someone sexually assaults kids because he has been assaulted himself doesn't mean that he isn't accountable for his acts. We have to stop the violence and chain reaction
I try not to slap labels. The only issue I keep bashing my head against is it feels like 90% of communication dances around people's psychological issues. The people in my life, I'd end up with 10% of people I can talk to, lean against and trust... Which at the moments makes around a 5th of one person. I research psychology in order to communicate with people and if I don't have these internal labels I can't go about my day without retracting into a shell. Thoughts?
Thank you. It is very hard to find good therapist . I agree wounded warrior can bandadyate his blody body , or can he? I am also Polish and some of mt family survived Oswincim become corubituted provides to new Poland Unfortunately for a not a good cause because under Russian asholes They died early not being able to stand that horrid system Living in US almost all my life in US i do appreciate good therapy We should not condemn bad people but we should treat them as they do us better walk away As a patient I can walk away from emotional abusive relationships Now by the end of this video I am convinced I should have a good therapist But I know it is very hard to find good one
So disregard less of being able to understand why someone did something it’s like giving yourself permission to say what they did to me was wrong and it’s okay to not justify it for them, as they did with justifying their story of how it was.
I was so last for the whole talk but at literally the midpoint I was like yeaaaahhhh. True!!!! @15:01 ish I have wanted to ask- hey is it wrong that I … or that he ….???!!!
Mmm, so only the ‘professional’ can use the word narcissist, orherwise it is emotional abuse? It really depends on the situation. I am an electrical engineer and it depends on the the situation when the layman is playing dangerously with electricity. But it is good to know there are bounderies for laymen psychologists.
Hi Richard, iv got reading sensitive epilepsy... So I'm kinda stuck in a mode of mostly consuming videos on UA-cam... I listen to the odd book on audible. I can read but to much gets difficult., I'll look up some of the writers you recommended on audible 👍
The background is perfect. A waterfall that shows no signs of erosion and a sunset obscured by clouds moving at 10x speed that never actually sets. Is this a metaphor about being trapped in a time bubble of psychotherapy?
Hello Richard, I’m a new subscriber and would like to know if there is any way to work with you directly? Do you do individual counseling? I’ve watched some of your content and you really make sense to me. I’m not sure yet that I was exposed to narcissistic abuse but I’m starting to make sense of things based on what I’ve been hearing. I’d appreciate any feedback and help with my issues. I’m just trying to understand it all.
But “if I was Putin’s mother”…. 😂 Two years of therapy wading in the grey zone and things are finally black and white. Immoral is immoral. Abuse is reprehensible. The end. It was worth the journey through the hellscape of my shadow though.
@@espenney6502 If you rcognise what you aredealing with - for your own safety - and don't say them it's not labeling. Why are we not alowed to say that some one is a psychopath to warn the people araund - when it is the truth ? You fear we could hurt the feelings of that psychos that they don't have ? In German we say - nenne das Kind beim Namen. = You should say the childs name - it mrans - just say as it is.
@@espenney6502 Just because bullies do lable their victimes no one should be alowed to say something tocall aut a abuser. The victimes loose their voice. When everybody who speak aut is suspect to be the bullie - we can't talk abaut bulliing, abuse and mobbing anymore and it helps only the abuser.
People like narcs need to be completely rewired and reprogrammed, and it's basically impossible, and if possible, it would not be cost effective, or efficient in any way. They need scrapping. Abandoning.
This is what I've been trying to say for years. This video is music to my ears. I remember a counsellor saying to me that I was being judgemental. And I told him, 'And that's because I'm judging.' The irony is of course that the counsellor was being judgemental of me by saying that I was being judgemental. Interestingly, over the years, I believe that my compassion for those with narcissistic traits has increased as has my judgement.
Thank you so much. This video clarified a lot for me. Too many people, even psychologists, over the years have judged me negatively and shamed me for having values that imply impatience with abusive behavior. These people come across as self-righteous and blind to abuse. They effectively encourage abuse by looking the other way.
Great points Richard! I agree there needs to be a moral discussion at the end of each session as it leaves the client confused going forward. This topic has been the subject of my concern for the last decade plus after suffering immense losses from a 3 year relationship with a women who was and still is very disturbed psychology. In 3 days I will reach 1 year since I left a young woman who I believe struggles with NPD/BPD w/malignant tendencies. The biggest problem I’ve had with letting go is the question of wether it’s ok for me to judge her and or compare my moral standings to hers and if the choice to do so was a sound reason to leave her irregardless of my love for her and her child. I’m always left with the conclusion that the lies, deceit, manipulation and invalidation are things I do not see as being moral or ethical especially towards someone in which the abuser insists they love. I didn’t do any of those things to her, but I was definitely reactive at times and said rude things and or pulled away often. Every single time I left her she instantly started sleeping with several guys, some of which I had accused her of sneaking behind my back with. This very fact has lead me to realize that I do not see any ethical or moral quality in this behavior and has finally allowed me to accept that my ethical and moral compass doesn’t match hers and or hers is simply broken. I don’t want to use her compass to guide my future moves as I see now the direction it would lead me is not the path I need to go down. For whatever reason her and I could never have that discussion and no matter how hard I try to get others to I understand it just doesn’t matter as much as the internal understanding I have with my ethical and moral obligations for myself. One of the worst aspects during and then after leaving (smear campaign) the ex and her sister (extremely toxic) would tag team assault me for having boundaries and for leaving the toxic cycle. When I pointed out the inconsistencies such as her drinking again and invalidating my feelings about this behavior despite her using her so called recovery/sobriety as the means for getting me back, her and her sister would tell me how I’m no better and that I’m a terrible person for judging her and her friends behavior. They would constantly use childhood trauma (never once talked about in private) as the reason why they are the way they are, but God forbid I ever used examples from my past as to why I don’t drink and haven’t for over a decade. They had zero empathy for my life or for my family, but expected me to cater to their every move even when they were obviously doing shady stuff behind my back. I’ve reached a place where I know in my heart, I’m worth more than what they can offer to me and they can call it whatever the want to. Abuse is abuse! Thank you sir for your work!
I'm with ya!! Sooo triangulation with sis not working anymore?? Good Job!! You ARE above that. Hurt people dont hurt people, they find help, learn to heal, and recover.. Abusers hurt is all projection.. misery loves blame. Nevertheless, it is all about their ineptitude with self reflection.. I dont want to be who I become around the ssist.
I told my therapiert and my friends that my abuser was the literal devil. Got laughter back, downplaying the seriousness of it, and was recommended to love my enemies. Wonderful 🥴
That's a great idea, having a therapist who will do the investigation with you. A therapist told me I would "just have to accept" my mother in the first session. Hell no. It was worth hearing that, just to kickstart and reinforce my resolve not to fold. After the second and last session, when she showed up 20 minutes late, I made sure to read a letter I wrote about what I found unacceptable in that relationship. It felt like I was laying down a boundary. I'm definitely not against therapy; clearly even a false start like that one offered me a jumping off point for something better.
I appreciate you taking the time to make your comment, and of course this session of Richards. Its reinforcement for me. I ran into a past therapist from quite a few years back. In the conversation, I was clearly still very confused and in pain, though I had left the abuser. The woman ended the conversation with stating that the abuser and I were both very good people. WTF!!!??? No wonder that therapy didn't help me much, actually probably did further harm.
That therapist made a moral judgment and a broad-sweep declaration without true acknowledgement of your experience -- or if she did acknowledge it at some point in the conversation, ending it that way certainly denied what you went through. Some therapists really can do further harm.
Yes and alot of time money and hopes can be wasted while trying to turn oneself inside out to explain the past. Then repeat repeat repeat. It's vulnerability revisited far too much. Journal, read...study Pysch and Sociology. Once you know the territory it helps exponentially yet is difficult. Many characters out there. And our patience has already been severely tried.
@@christineplaton3048 Yes, 100%. There is alot of free information/tests online. I find this channel really helpful in understanding abusive people and healing myself
@@cindyanderson9425 It's a weird one. It's like long ago the abuser WAS abused /neglected by parents/whoever ... but they made the choice to abuse vulnerable, co dependant people. In a way I "let them" by unconsciously at the time being a co-dependent but it was only through their Narc mind control methods (they studied to never be a victim again) to feel powerful by abusing others that they done the damage they done. Very malicious. So for the most part...I accept it happened and I try to look at them like I would a ridiculed child (a young boy humiliated by his Mom and sisters for crying - that's how I imagine my ex become such a parasite)
I agree that regardless the cause of someone’s psychology we should condemn damaging behaviour…what framing it as the result of childhood trauma helped me with was accepting it would never change, and that I had no responsibility for it…okay so I enabled it etc. but my behaviour didn’t create the abuse iyswim
It's almost like, they are looking for someone who is willing to accept their behaviour/abuse. You hadn't learnt how to put up your shield, that's not your fault though, now you're learning to put up that shield, which deters that behaviour from impacting you.
Thank you so much for this. I had a very invalidating therapist, in fact, triggering me to disassociation. We did learn a lot, but the experience has set me back and I am still nervous about trusting another therapist.
I'm so sorry. I can relate. My therapist, in discussing our philosophical beliefs of "what is bad/evil," basically told me I was wrong to make the moral judgment that what my spouse was doing was evil. I was already confused enough, and this therapist was a person I deeply trusted. It's a long journey to get my sense of self and agency back. And no, I will not trust another therapist. I have chosen to trust a couple new friends with bits of my story. I hope you can find someone who will value who you are as a person and your agency.
@@juliekong5013 there are problemic therapists out there that cannot be trusted. I just heard an online conference today with International anti Cult organization and there were multiples of people who dealt with really troublesome if not criminal types. So it's dangerous, and the majority of people are being medicated. It's disgusting.
CNEI Happy, what you describe is very common. I really get out among people. The events, comments, things that people say etc. Can all be very triggering, yes. Life needs living and trauma therapy must be completed. Not every situation, occupation, group, etc will be supportive. We must navigate our way into a healthier lifestyle. It's something we need to nurture and create. Others can't do it for us. Having the right environment is essential. It takes a long time to overcome years of chronic abuse. I have my preferences, and can't be expected to fit another person's idea of what works. We develop our healing path very slowly, it's very complex.
This is why I closed my private counseling practice when my son died in 2016. I set up a youtube channel at that point but never thought of it as a business and never set it up that way. Ultimately, this wasn't great for the success of my channel, but I felt it was my responsibility to heal myself before acting as if I had answers for anyone else. I could make videos on topics I felt confident about but that is far different from getting into people's personal lives and being someone they count on to be healed and able to have objective perspective.
Having trained as a counsellor there are too many people out there practicing who are broken, and not healed themselves first. You recognised your emotional shit, and did a responsible thing…. These people haven’t and I know from my training with them they are completely unselfish aware and bring baggage into other vulnerable peoples lives x
@@e.r.4447 in a therapy session the most important thing is to feel safe! And that is so difficult! I trained as a councillor, but yet I went to a psychologist with a Narcissist and was hung it to dry…’ it’s taken year of over and over coping with horrible divorce and thirty year relationship, and fucked over with money from a man who is a millionaire !!! But I’m in my summer house with a blanket with my two beautiful cockers after walking and swimming on beach….. I can’t tell you of the joy I’ve had today of simple pleasures, it taken years to get to a point of listening to Etta Franklin in my summers house, safe, warm secure with my dogs giving me more than a husband of 30 years! I struggle, it’s so hard… but its what you have in your aloneness is far more than being in a ‘couple’ that is so isolated loneliness, it takes a lot of time and finding support is nonexistent unless on forums of like minded people! I truly wish you love and strength ….! We just got to take every day as it comes and not judge ourselves if it a bad day. Spaniels chasing balls and smiles I judge a good day xx
I’ve been in a terribly abusive relationship with a narcissist for 12 years. We split last year and he’s just come back with another hoover. He has just started a counselling course in South London and brought his homework with him in the hope I’d do it for him. I’m truly horrified that this thing will be let loose on people trying to heal.
I just subscribed to your channel. I lost my Son in 2014, I've been married to my husband for 12 years, he drained me emotionally, mentally, physically and discarded me 3 weeks ago. I need healing because I feel devastated
What do you think if a counsellor / therapist type person had implied that narcissism isn’t really a thing and that it was likely the other persons parent being difficult, overbearing, controlling, self absorbed, always the victim etc was actually some form of autism or autistic spectrum (not aspergers)? Is there some truth in that (even if they have no social issues) or is it just some form of unintentional gaslighting on the counsellors part? I expect it doesn’t really matter on the receivers end but would be interesting to hear advise on this if possible. Ty
I am attending meetings of a 12-Step-Program called ACA (Adult children of alcoholics and dysfunctional families). One of the most powerful rules (=boundary) there is the "no crosstalk" rule. Here is an excerpt of ACA literature: "Somewhere along the line, we learned to doubt our perceptions, discount our feelings, and overlook our needs. Telling people what we thought or felt often resulted in our being ignored, laughed at or punished. We learned to look to others to tell us what to think, what to feel and how to behave. As children, many of us learned that what we had to say did not matter. We were frequently interrupted and criticized … No crosstalk creates a new environment in which we can begin to open up to others without fear of being interrupted, misinterpreted, or judged. If we don’t avoid crosstalk, a meeting with a group of codependents can easily become unhealthy. The sharing session must be a time when each of us is allowed to express our feelings openly and honestly, free from fear of judgement by others. In our meetings we speak about our own experience, and we listen without comment to what others share. We give the person sharing our full, uncritical attention. We work towards taking responsibility in our own lives, rather than giving advice to others. Crosstalk guidelines help keep our meeting a safe place. This also applies after the meeting and includes giving unsolicited feedback. Crosstalk is any verbal or physical response to another person’s sharing. Interrupting, questioning, and offering advice, are universally considered to be crosstalk in ACA. Physical touching by patting or hugging during the sharing session is considered crosstalk by some groups. Being touched interrupts a person’s sharing and redirects his or her attention to the other person’s actions. … [This] interrupts thought patterns and disturbs feelings that are about to be expressed. The safety provided by the “no crosstalk” rule allows a person to experience vulnerability and develop deep levels of trust. Others in the group benefit from this depth of sharing. They have an opportunity to learn more about themselves and to practice detachment. (...)" Experiencing such a safe space has helped me tremendously in my recovery from childhood trauma.
What you said has huGe value.. to take it a step further there are self help groups that have a boundary rule that says that after the meeting you must ask the person you approach if you can offer a comment on their share….. People are taught how to have a boundary and have it respected in a civil way..
@@RICHARDGRANNON Your seminar your rules/boundaries. :) The way it works with us is that the sharing is limited in time. Everyone is allowed to talk for a certain amount of time. This helps us "Adult Children" (or "Aged Child" as I like to call myself ;) to focus on someone else, to give that person space, because I know that I will get the same if I want to.
The way I was formed, expressing a boundary was not seen as an act of self-care and self-expression on my part, but as an aggressive act against my parents. Even today, I often find myself covering up the boundary violations of others, e.g. by laughing, etc. I am afraid of being perceived as aggressive and therefore excluded. And in fact, I have not learned how to set boundaries in a relationally acceptable way. For a long time in my adult life, I didn't set any boundaries (maybe I didn't even really notice them) and at some point I only saw a way out in the ultimate setting of boundaries: breaking off the relationship. Meanwhile, I am so tired of repeating this over and over again. At least I am more aware of it today, and that is the basic prerequisite for change.
"Somewhere along the line, we learned to doubt our perceptions, discount our feelings, and overlook our needs." That is so true. For me, this is what has caused my adult sorrows, problems, terrible relationships and a life not lived. Thank you for adding that here, it really helps to see it in print. I find it validating, and just these few words help me see the the way out. 🙏.
You make your word dances sound so “good” but they are “bad” Why? Because your arrogance to presume as if other professionals (are you even really one?) don’t already know what you think you know so much about. Every time Grannon you mention Psychology (more often than not) you are meaning Psychiatry. Are you aware of the difference? The arrogant notion that psychology fails due to being without morality is simplistic and dichotomous on your part. Clients aren’t stupid - you assume they are. Yet, you don’t even work with clients. You have succeeded in building a cult-type following that rarely, if ever questions you. You need to find humility and get your facts straight. You have a few relevant points at times but the frame you slide them into suggests trickery.
Dear RICHARD - This just blew my socks off !
> I remember my best friend, went to NYU to study psychology- and she took what she learned & applied it to everyone. Including me - including my friends, etc etc. Every interaction we had, she was evaluating me & pointing out my dysfunctional behavior/s, etc. Of course, I became very self conscious, well even more so than usual bc of being labeled & classified. - She constantly pointed out my “ faults “ -
> Unfortunately, I was going through lots of big life challenges at the time, & what I really needed was a friend in my corner.
€ I went around feeling dysfunctional & so that drained my energy left & right.
> I engaged in eastern philosophy by way of a self professed guru. ( I met him in the neighborhood )
> Then there was my older brother who was totally submerged in his born again - Christianity. - His response to everything is / “ Bring it to the Lord. You’re suffering bc you’re defiant of the Lord ! You’ve sinned ! “ ) - At that time I had no boundaries & no steam to push back. I let everyone dump on me.
> Years later, another round of upheaval & turmoil, only this time I went to psych/clinic for CBT/ and sure enough, it didn’t help bc I was still role playing / therapist to the world - only I wasn’t aware.
> I think the Christian philosophy got fused w. the clinic psychology.
I did not get better.
I just learned how to position myself as a clinician.
> Here it is years later, and I’m still role playing clinician - w. everyone. Instead of taking care of myself.
> One day I got really angry, and frustrated- and I decided to chuck out all these “ Be nice to everybody “ - “ Pray to God “ - “ You create your own reality “ etc. etc. - I just said “ No more “ trying to be an angel. I’m going back TK basics. I’m going to live like a kid before I went to school & got indoctrinated. I’m going to just BE me, & stop trying to make excuses for the mean people around me. I’m going to stop making excuses for people who treat me badly.
Bc the bottom line is very simple. Nice people feel good.
And mean people feel bad.
And I just want to feel good again. 🐶❤️🦙
> That’s what I really truly want.
👇🏼
✨💚✨
Don't hang your dirty laundry out in public, go get therapy. That is the safe place to feel the feelings and heal. Keep compassion and empathy separate. Boundaries. 🌱 I'm working on my healing and enjoying life again. Thank you Richard 🙌
This is brilliant. I have definitely been “therapist-like” in my role with friends and family and lovers. That is SO denying of myself.
Absolutely. I know what you mean. You end up 'rationalizing' what can only really be categorized as their evil.
Most of psychology and psychotherapy is intended to keep us docile and content with an increasingly evil world.
Thank you. I had a clinical Counselor tell me that I needed to change because I was angry and bitter and no man would want me. At that point I was not asking about a new relationship but telling him it was hard and I felt sad because I was in the process of getting rid of all the belonging the narcissist left for me to deal with after I made him leave. It has taken me a long time to find a Counselor that could actually validate my experience.
That validation has given me the space to start to heal.
That’s awful…..
It’s amazing how impossible it is to find simple compassion and validation for painful feelings. I now understand the reason I found it so hard to find, was because I had been denied that since very early childhood. I’m finding it now. I hope you find it too x
This is so good.. That's why I kept going back to what broke me because I was so emphathetic trying to playing the role of "healer" 😑 It was so detrimental to my health. Now I know what they did to me was terribly wrong even though I understand the why but I have to set boundaries.
There’s also a financial goal for a therapist that skews progress.
Now, this, is a big big problem. It puts therapy on a crossroad where search for truth and survival needs might go off in opposite directions.
No, there is not. Believe me, there are more than enough clients for therapists.
As a ‘client’ I really needed to hear that. Felt guilty and cognitive dissonance naming the abusive person’s abuse toward me ‘evil’ as I felt and understood his pain from studying in depth about his disorder. His pain was similar to mine (from childhood) so I felt a bond that I’ve never felt with anyone else, except I can’t imagine doing the things he did to me and others causing emotional and psychological pain. Thank you for saying it’s ok to call it what it felt like…bad and evil. I feel amazing relief.
yes.. That's exacty how I feel.. 😢 I understood why he was that way but I failed to consider my own wellbeing.
Who hasn't suffered some type of pain coming from somewhere during childhood? What determines good or bad is how we deal with that pain. Causing others to suffer because of your pain is evil, period. Malignant narcissists are simply evil.
Yup…I’ve forgiven far too many times because an over responsibility of such ‘understanding/empathizing. Left me wide open for more abuse! This was very helpful!
I carefully imagined doing the same thing the narc did to me to an anxious friend of mine. It made me realise what a sustained piece of deliberate cruelty it was and far away from normal human behaviour it was.
As a psychotherapist you can and you should have a moral codex, you should be like an advocat for the core emotional needs of your client. As described here therapy seems to have a rather detached perspective. This contradicts the treatment approach that I am familiar with. I want to have a very clear moral compass on how my client should and should not have been treated, especially, but not only as a child.
Excellent topic & presentation! When I was a child, my parental unit would recite reasons for her own damaged disposition whist beating and torturing me in order to validate a reason that it was okay. Fiery rebel that I am, I have been acutely aware to insert phrases into conversations with those supporting lack of boundaries, something along the lines of “understanding why they abuse still does not give them the right to do so and you should not allow it to continue, (not associate if you are just an observer of the horror), otherwise you’re betraying yourself (or the one being abused). This came up a lot in spiritual bypassing groups.” I’m so happy to see you covering this topic! Very useful and much needed.
"The smallest worm will turn, being trodden on.“ 🐛 - William Shakespeare, Henry VI (play) Part 1-3 Clifford, Act II, scene ii. Henry VI, Part 3 (1592) 🦋
Well said Richard, our bodies keep score of and express repressed emotions to our detriment when we remain silent about abuse. Discern with detached compassion rather than judging or criticising. Honour our truths, inner convictions, intentional choices, standards and boundaries we've set to first do no harm and secondly be a good example for others of doing the right thing for the right reasons. What price peace, what payment for pearls? 💞🔥🕊
Our Therapist said it was all about perspective and allowing the other to have their own “reason” perspective for what they did . It covered the abuse . and my therapist actually got upset at me when I said I’m done with it . ( her ) abuse is abuse and should be called such .
Please, please be careful when choosing a therapist. My highly abusive ex is now training to be a counsellor in London. When I first met him 12 years ago he was receiving counselling for drug abuse and his counsellor turned up at a poetry event he was doing. She pulled me to one side and told me that I was a “very lucky girl”. He’s done his level best to destroy me ever since and still tries to this day.
Thank you richard, you can only heal by taking good boundaries for yourself , knowledge of good and bad , morals, everyone from healing must learn that . Including myself , we deserve respect . If not leave the toxic relationship. 😉👍
This was exactly the message I needed to hear right now. I feel I've been fighting with myself, in going to high levels of philosophy and understanding to move past my anger and really heal - and its clearly not getting me there...... still trying to be ok in my head with the abusers, still making excuses for them, as if that's the finally step to healing. In doing this, I feel a victim of the abuse, is continuing to abuse and shame Themselves! in the same way the abuser did, messing with a persons head. After quite a few years, I'm finally going back into therapy sessions, to address the horrific sexual abuse. Its time!
My old therapist was amazing in this way. I lived in an apartment building for abused mothers. She was a genuine gift. While the rest of the staff made us all to feel we were horrible women still strapped in an abusive relationship. She was a light in the darkness to all of us.
Thank you so much for the videos and information you post . My ex , was a narcissist and made my life a living hell . I’ve had 6 years of counselling to recognize the abuse he put me through and to heal from it .
Best thing I did was react and kick him out !
I’ve just split from the bpd again and started watching these videos again, these are the only videos that get me adding a comment as if anyone actually reads it. But when I feel sad and alone at night It makes me feel good and is distracting from the pain the sadness of rejection that you’re mother will never be how you want them to be, they will always choose you over their addictions but you still try in your relationships to be chosen. I feel the same mindset and realise I’m understood and accepting and making peace I wish I could do.
A narcissistic abuse podcast I listened to dealing with revenge says it causes chaos for both parties. And the famous “hurt people hurt people”
And to think of it this way. Which I think is true to an extent.
This thinking is what made me always have too much empathy for people who mistreated me. That along with my more recent misunderstanding of eastern non dualistic religions.and growing up Catholic too.
As long as I can remember one of the only attributes my dad ever praised me about was that I was so “forgiving” …but now I’m learning I was appeasing to an abusive mother and he never stood up to her. To this day no one has stood up to her. I don’t have much contact with her anymore but it’s what led me to have empathy for another man who I unconsciously allowed to use and mistreat me. I ran into him accidentally and wanted to physically hurt him.. I’m so angry at the powerlessness I feel.
Same history of NPD mom, flying monkey Dad and huge family, using the faith to condemn me. I was Catholic from pre-Vatican II, wandered back into ancient mysticism and theology, beauty of Latin Mass and music, and theology of judgment, helped me to judge the harm done to me letting God be the eternal judge. Now suffering from NPD abusive adult son/gf, starting process all over again with loss of faith, anger, self-accusation, etc. Dad dead, Mother-no contact, son/gf-moved them out. Healing in first most painful days. Hang in there! Listen, read, distract, work, walk, opera, Latin Mass with a great choir in beautiful church, art, nature, beauty of this short life. Immerse yourself and heal. I am there too. We bear the stripes on our back and can be made whole.
You couldn’t have said it better. I even feel like sharing this video with my therapist (as well as rubbing this on my ex NPD BF), but I’ll keep it to my own knowledge and personal growth. Thanks for this and the other great videos. Cheers 🇦🇺 .
this is so important, especially for codependents. i am allowed to know the difference between good and evil. yes, my abuser had a rough childhood, but so did I. And what they do is wrong. lying is wrong, using people is wrong, borrowing money is wrong, ruining someones reputation is wrong. you have to face up to the fact that you let this person in, and you ignored the first few times they screwed you over. I did that. I partook in that. but I don't have to anymore. you have to get your self respect and dignity back.
Thank you Richard for your clear and very healthy perspective on human behaviour.
Your thoughts are like a fresh wind in this topic.
What I'm hearing you say is that I must own my own sh*t...I agree.
ohhh- brilliant!! Thank you! I, the therapist, need to be a client. You´ve encouraged me to do that.
psychology is pathetic. the art of using grandiose fancy terms to talk about the basic and obvious
It‘s so basic and obvious to me that you should stay away from it.
Cognitive empathy is the word I've always used to describe what you called "Cold Empathy". It's being able to map out someone's psyche based on how they personally think. Of course, it can be pretty accurate if you don't know someone but it's even more powerful once you've come to know how the individual thinks. To me Empathy has always been understanding, not warm displays of compassion. To me it's compassion via understanding someone. You can't be detached enough to be able to be empathetic, and simultaneously also be outwardly warm and compassionate all the time. It's like a teeter totter, the more you go in one direction the further you're pulled from the other. It's a balancing act.
Great video! "I was in an emotionally abuse relationship, and it fucked me up" and it's ok to say this and to say what was done is WRONG!" I watch you and Sam Vaknin very closely and this is so very important to the individuation process. To learn to believe in ourselves again. Thank you!
One of my favorites. Thanks for the work you do.
Yep! I tried a therapist after doing a lot of good work healing away from my situation…her input made me question my progress, feel like I was in the wrong and that he did actually love me and I should give him another chance! 🤷🏻♀️🙈 no help whatsoever in this case…thank God I felt it wasn’t working for me and chose to battle thru on my own to find more experientially validating resources online and studying a lot of psychology myself…
Thank you for saying what most are afraid to say🙏
For the first time in years I feel a bit better and that's for speaking out what happened in the past. At the same time making steps saying what I think about others and setting boundaries. I stopped learning psychology because I know I wanna master helping people with the things I never had myself. I also did this in my career started somehow from a codependent role. Thanks for your given insights , starting another path on my journey in what is good or bad and what really suits me.
My partner’s 30 year old daughter is one of the most vile creatures I’ve ever come across. He sees a little girl while she lies and sucks away at him. So sad to watch.
I’ve forgiven far too many times because an over responsibility of such ‘understanding/empathizing. Left me wide open for more abuse! This was very helpful! Thank you!!
Well said. Thank you. In the past year I began listening to you and I have healed from Npd dramatically. Thank you
All the trauma has to come out and than u will see the light.. I was almost at the light but my therapist took a two weak vacation with no therapist to even back him up...I felt so abandoned and made more walls around the light.. but I believe a good therapist and reliving and even remembering in a safe place can lead to a huge shift in consciousness
An auto accident 40 years ago, 18 years old, no seatbelt, forehead hit dashboard at 30-40 mph. - right orbital rim skull fracture.
Executive Function impaired, long emotional pathways damaged, pituitary gland partially disconnected from hypothalimus Officially diagnosed Bipolar2, (cycles into despair but does not lose touch with reality) Disassociative disorder, Borderline, No self esteem, Loss of Identity, and the emotional maturity of a three year old, but IQ intact. Psyche ward 8 months before discharged to live by myself.
Drifted five years, lost first baby from welfare malpractice at 10 months stillbirth because brain couldn't produce hormones for labor. Married a certified narcissist. 18 plus years of gaslighting.
Married 2nd husband 13 years ago, hoping to find a partner who could take care of himself, before seeing your videos, and not realizing I am a narcissist magnet. He knows how to take care of himself with my disability check, incapable of taking care of me. We are legally separated.
Do you accept charity cases.
Made me happy my hallucination created from interpreting your words as I judged fitting it did! Well done and thank you.
Yep. Agree wholeheartedly. I don't agree that a person without boundaries can safely engage in Therapy. How can they navigate that interpersonal space with no boundaries? I don't see how it's possible to manage that effectively other than by sheer fluke.
You are such an original thinker! Your thoughts are very helpful. Gracias mucho!
Being discerning about the type of relationship that you want is a standard, I have forgiven the bpd,narc in my life,with no desire for a relationship with her,but wish that she herself would get help.I am at peace with this.
Really good points here Richard, thank you.
We got Joe here..be safe over there .✌️
Let’s go Brandon 🇺🇸
So so good analogy to physical therapy… gotta do the work dedication to it to get to health. I recovered from two hip surgeries.. so this makes since.
Love this..
morality and judgment.
Narcissistic toxicity.. I believe is is a spiritual battle. It’s an energy, on spiritual level.. that destroys! The battle is against this spirit.. the human who has this spiritual disease.. who causes all this brokenness, heartbreak, wounds, complete inability to be intimate to have empathy.. connection to anyone , on a heart level.. this is not an option for this condition!
I agree with this, if you dont make judgment that a lion is a lion and it's a danger that you should from, it will eat you alive.
Thank you I needed this today.
Someone stole something from my home, after giving it consideration, the next time they called, said i was in the middle of something, and shut the door in their face. Gone are the days of being polite and making excuses, giving some benefit of doubt to abusers, these fools need the cold shoulder. I don't feel bad about it, quite the opposite, honoured myself, and loved myself enough to enforce my boundaries. Hopefully you all have the strength to do what you need to do. Have the strength and courage to take the action you know needs taking. Honour yourself, and love yourself. Have a great day.
How dare you suggest objectivity Richard!
😉 Thanks for posting 🙏🏻
I like your word "limerance" instead of the word "love", for what is more like
"compassionate halucinating empathy of a partner narcissist."
I hope ur healing, don't know how u got injured 💕
This was very interesting. Good things to think about
Brilliant! Such great insights.
"People of the Lie" The Case for Evil by Scott Peck, helped me years ago. I had trouble leaving a bad relationship or " condemning". The distinction is important to have boundaries at all.
'People of The Lie; Towards a Psychology of Evil', is one of my top 10 'saved my sanity' books. M.Scott Peck wrote this after he had the (quite rare) experience of finding faith in Jesus Christ very late in life.
That is the BIG throught.
Exactly NOT my experience with the therapist(s) I've dealt with. I'm not trying to entitled and borderlinesque here, I felt judged, gaslighted, treated as an object and re traumatized. Nothing has done more damage over the years than those visits, The fear is so real that even tho I really know I need help and I really want to go there to give it another try I'm simply to scared to step into stalins office again
You're brilliant! Excellent ability to brake down human behavior 🌺
“Rebel in Me” - J. Cliff
So this means that the Gnostic concept of enlightened/unenlightened vaguerey doesn’t hold up to evil? Thank you. I really needed the confirmation.
Maybe a good therapy would start agnostic but then would switch gear towards the moral code of the patient / client then go universal ......what works what doesn't etc
Maybe it's because I've not had this experience with a therapist, but he just said a lot without saying anything at all.
So much food for thought
Excellent.
Brilliant!
I heard ‘the crappy childhood fairy’ therapist say CPTSD can look like narccicism. But it seems CPTSD is something that can cause NPD.
Can people learn to be more centred on others? Like when someone takes on a new world view, spiritual experience.
Thank you. Excellent! This helped me a lot.
You’ve missed a significant difference between therapeutic modalities. Person centred therapy is as you describe but therapists don’t always hold PCT as the holy grail - my approach is to offer insight into NPD using clear language of criteria - ie to name it. And the client makes the match. Once match is made it’s easier to explore the abuse. Sometime we need to name the abuse too. I like the word AND, your partner has NPD and we can have compassion for their humanity once we acknowledge that NPD is a post traumatic defence. So this isn’t about condemnation it’s about understanding.
You still need to get out!
judge verb
judged; judging
Definition of judge (Entry 2 of 2)
transitive verb
1 : to form an opinion about through careful weighing of evidence and testing of premises
2 : to form an estimate or evaluation of
trying to judge the amount of time required
especially : to form a negative opinion about
shouldn't judge him because of his accent
3 : to hold as an opinion : GUESS, THINK
I judge she knew what she was doing
4 : to sit in judgment on : TRY
judge a case
5 : to determine or pronounce after inquiry and deliberation
They judged him guilty.
6 : GOVERN, RULE -used of a Hebrew tribal leader
We have been trained by media, and other parrots, to avoid critical thinking. To judge, is to use your reason to draw conclusions. Yes, Hitler and Stalin and most cluster B personality disordered people comes from really bad upbringing but at the same time, that doesn’t mean we need to forget and forgive every malicious act they performed.
In regards to spiritual believes, the problem is those believes where NOT for the common folk. In ancient times, such believes ( content/knowledge) was reserved for a small, tried, spiritual advanced, tiny, group of people. What we get nowadays is a spiritual degraded mash of believes, full of contradictory notions, inside of people mostly spiritual unprepared and unfit to even know those believes. But they think themselves “able” and they mix it with psychological knowledge, and manipulation tactics. We have been programmed to be absolutely pedestrian, unoriginal, attached to our vices and families, because reason implies challenge to the status quo, and challenges implies the pursuit of freedom. But in order to BE free, you need first to BE.
Yes, I do think it's important to understand where someone is coming from in doing a bad deed but that doesn't mean that I have to accept it. I can understand and still choose to cut contact. I think that's also a common topic in true crime stories. The stories of these mass murderers are told, including their (often) fucked up childhood but at the end of the day that's not intended to make us say "aww, he doesn't deserve going to prison for this since it's rooted deeper to other people in his life". Yeah, life is fucking unfair. But you have to stop the whole thing at some point. Just because someone sexually assaults kids because he has been assaulted himself doesn't mean that he isn't accountable for his acts. We have to stop the violence and chain reaction
I try not to slap labels. The only issue I keep bashing my head against is it feels like 90% of communication dances around people's psychological issues. The people in my life, I'd end up with 10% of people I can talk to, lean against and trust... Which at the moments makes around a 5th of one person. I research psychology in order to communicate with people and if I don't have these internal labels I can't go about my day without retracting into a shell. Thoughts?
Thank you.
It is very hard to find good therapist .
I agree wounded warrior can bandadyate his blody body , or can he?
I am also Polish and some of mt family survived Oswincim
become corubituted provides to new Poland
Unfortunately for a not a good cause because under Russian asholes
They died early not being able to stand that horrid system
Living in US almost all my life
in US i do appreciate
good therapy
We should not condemn bad people but we should treat them as they do us better walk away
As a patient I can walk away from emotional abusive relationships
Now by the end of this video I am convinced I should have a good therapist
But I know it is very hard to find good one
So disregard less of being able to understand why someone did something it’s like giving yourself permission to say what they did to me was wrong and it’s okay to not justify it for them,
as they did with justifying their story of how it was.
Cheers. Thanks.
I was so last for the whole talk but at literally the midpoint I was like yeaaaahhhh. True!!!! @15:01 ish I have wanted to ask- hey is it wrong that I … or that he ….???!!!
Min 03:00
Min 06:00
Min 09:00-15:00
Mmm, so only the ‘professional’ can use the word narcissist, orherwise it is emotional abuse? It really depends on the situation. I am an electrical engineer and it depends on the the situation when the layman is playing dangerously with electricity. But it is good to know there are bounderies for laymen psychologists.
That background makes the whole video look like the cult recruitment videos from the 90's
Hey, Richard here. I'm just gonna do what you say because your opinion matters so much to me. Thank you so much for participating. xoxo
LOL
@@allowedtotalk8910 I like it
So I tell my daughter that I am going to take a Psych-Bath. Is this wrong in my Nightmare?
Hi Richard, iv got reading sensitive epilepsy... So I'm kinda stuck in a mode of mostly consuming videos on UA-cam... I listen to the odd book on audible. I can read but to much gets difficult., I'll look up some of the writers you recommended on audible 👍
Come to the United States of America and train my staff ⚕️⚕️
The background is perfect. A waterfall that shows no signs of erosion and a sunset obscured by clouds moving at 10x speed that never actually sets. Is this a metaphor about being trapped in a time bubble of psychotherapy?
Hello Richard, I’m a new subscriber and would like to know if there is any way to work with you directly? Do you do individual counseling? I’ve watched some of your content and you really make sense to me. I’m not sure yet that I was exposed to narcissistic abuse but I’m starting to make sense of things based on what I’ve been hearing. I’d appreciate any feedback and help with my issues. I’m just trying to understand it all.
But “if I was Putin’s mother”…. 😂
Two years of therapy wading in the grey zone and things are finally black and white. Immoral is immoral. Abuse is reprehensible. The end. It was worth the journey through the hellscape of my shadow though.
You lost me at "LOCKDOWN" there is no covid virus... people WAKE UP!!!
Please, can you put teanslation into Croatian? Thank you! ♥️
Love the background
Yesssssss!!!
I wish empatheticaly that Quinn Michaels channel would hear you @24:00 in the least. 🌸 Im not being trite. Lol pickle jar head 🥒🏺
“You cannot just let evil run wild in the world.” Exactly. Thank you.
In this political correct new world- you geth labelt as a bully when you say somethig or someone is evil. 🤪
@@katarinatibai8396 labeling is the last resort of a bully so watcha gonna do in a world packed with actual evil bullies :/
@@espenney6502 If you rcognise what you aredealing with - for your own safety - and don't say them it's not labeling.
Why are we not alowed to say that some one is a psychopath to warn the people araund - when it is the truth ?
You fear we could hurt the feelings of that psychos that they don't have ?
In German we say - nenne das Kind beim Namen.
= You should say the childs name - it mrans - just say as it is.
@@espenney6502 Just because bullies do lable their victimes no one should be alowed to say something tocall aut a abuser.
The victimes loose their voice.
When everybody who speak aut is suspect to be the bullie - we can't talk abaut bulliing, abuse and mobbing anymore and it helps only the abuser.
@@katarinatibai8396 all true - facts are facts! Calling out bullies is tricky tho - best to do it from a safe distance
Amen...I've seen it time and time again.
They can not heal until they start having moral judgment rewired.
People like narcs need to be completely rewired and reprogrammed, and it's basically impossible, and if possible, it would not be cost effective, or efficient in any way. They need scrapping. Abandoning.
This is what I've been trying to say for years. This video is music to my ears. I remember a counsellor saying to me that I was being judgemental. And I told him, 'And that's because I'm judging.' The irony is of course that the counsellor was being judgemental of me by saying that I was being judgemental.
Interestingly, over the years, I believe that my compassion for those with narcissistic traits has increased as has my judgement.
Thank you so much. This video clarified a lot for me. Too many people, even psychologists, over the years have judged me negatively and shamed me for having values that imply impatience with abusive behavior. These people come across as self-righteous and blind to abuse. They effectively encourage abuse by looking the other way.
Silence is complicity, when viewing abusive behavior.
Great points Richard! I agree there needs to be a moral discussion at the end of each session as it leaves the client confused going forward. This topic has been the subject of my concern for the last decade plus after suffering immense losses from a 3 year relationship with a women who was and still is very disturbed psychology. In 3 days I will reach 1 year since I left a young woman who I believe struggles with NPD/BPD w/malignant tendencies. The biggest problem I’ve had with letting go is the question of wether it’s ok for me to judge her and or compare my moral standings to hers and if the choice to do so was a sound reason to leave her irregardless of my love for her and her child. I’m always left with the conclusion that the lies, deceit, manipulation and invalidation are things I do not see as being moral or ethical especially towards someone in which the abuser insists they love. I didn’t do any of those things to her, but I was definitely reactive at times and said rude things and or pulled away often. Every single time I left her she instantly started sleeping with several guys, some of which I had accused her of sneaking behind my back with. This very fact has lead me to realize that I do not see any ethical or moral quality in this behavior and has finally allowed me to accept that my ethical and moral compass doesn’t match hers and or hers is simply broken. I don’t want to use her compass to guide my future moves as I see now the direction it would lead me is not the path I need to go down. For whatever reason her and I could never have that discussion and no matter how hard I try to get others to I understand it just doesn’t matter as much as the internal understanding I have with my ethical and moral obligations for myself.
One of the worst aspects during and then after leaving (smear campaign) the ex and her sister (extremely toxic) would tag team assault me for having boundaries and for leaving the toxic cycle. When I pointed out the inconsistencies such as her drinking again and invalidating my feelings about this behavior despite her using her so called recovery/sobriety as the means for getting me back, her and her sister would tell me how I’m no better and that I’m a terrible person for judging her and her friends behavior. They would constantly use childhood trauma (never once talked about in private) as the reason why they are the way they are, but God forbid I ever used examples from my past as to why I don’t drink and haven’t for over a decade. They had zero empathy for my life or for my family, but expected me to cater to their every move even when they were obviously doing shady stuff behind my back. I’ve reached a place where I know in my heart, I’m worth more than what they can offer to me and they can call it whatever the want to. Abuse is abuse!
Thank you sir for your work!
I'm with ya!!
Sooo triangulation with sis not working anymore?? Good Job!!
You ARE above that.
Hurt people dont hurt people, they find help, learn to heal, and recover..
Abusers hurt is all projection.. misery loves blame.
Nevertheless, it is all about their ineptitude with self reflection..
I dont want to be who I become around the ssist.
I told my therapiert and my friends that my abuser was the literal devil. Got laughter back, downplaying the seriousness of it, and was recommended to love my enemies. Wonderful 🥴
Some therapists are so bad at their jobs.
That's a great idea, having a therapist who will do the investigation with you. A therapist told me I would "just have to accept" my mother in the first session. Hell no. It was worth hearing that, just to kickstart and reinforce my resolve not to fold. After the second and last session, when she showed up 20 minutes late, I made sure to read a letter I wrote about what I found unacceptable in that relationship. It felt like I was laying down a boundary. I'm definitely not against therapy; clearly even a false start like that one offered me a jumping off point for something better.
I appreciate you taking the time to make your comment, and of course this session of Richards. Its reinforcement for me. I ran into a past therapist from quite a few years back. In the conversation, I was clearly still very confused and in pain, though I had left the abuser. The woman ended the conversation with stating that the abuser and I were both very good people. WTF!!!??? No wonder that therapy didn't help me much, actually probably did further harm.
That therapist made a moral judgment and a broad-sweep declaration without true acknowledgement of your experience -- or if she did acknowledge it at some point in the conversation, ending it that way certainly denied what you went through. Some therapists really can do further harm.
Yes and alot of time money and hopes can be wasted while trying to turn oneself inside out to explain the past. Then repeat repeat repeat. It's vulnerability revisited far too much. Journal, read...study Pysch and Sociology. Once you know the territory it helps exponentially yet is difficult. Many characters out there. And our patience has already been severely tried.
@@christineplaton3048 Yes, 100%. There is alot of free information/tests online. I find this channel really helpful in understanding abusive people and healing myself
@@cindyanderson9425 It's a weird one. It's like long ago the abuser WAS abused /neglected by parents/whoever ... but they made the choice to abuse vulnerable, co dependant people. In a way I "let them" by unconsciously at the time being a co-dependent but it was only through their Narc mind control methods (they studied to never be a victim again) to feel powerful by abusing others that they done the damage they done. Very malicious. So for the most part...I accept it happened and I try to look at them like I would a ridiculed child (a young boy humiliated by his Mom and sisters for crying - that's how I imagine my ex become such a parasite)
When I am with a therapist, I need to see their reactions to my stories to show me how I should be reacting because my emotions are frozen..
I agree that regardless the cause of someone’s psychology we should condemn damaging behaviour…what framing it as the result of childhood trauma helped me with was accepting it would never change, and that I had no responsibility for it…okay so I enabled it etc. but my behaviour didn’t create the abuse iyswim
It's almost like, they are looking for someone who is willing to accept their behaviour/abuse. You hadn't learnt how to put up your shield, that's not your fault though, now you're learning to put up that shield, which deters that behaviour from impacting you.
Seriously, Richard? You are a genius! This distinction is absolutely life saving!
Thank you so much for this. I had a very invalidating therapist, in fact, triggering me to disassociation. We did learn a lot, but the experience has set me back and I am still nervous about trusting another therapist.
Remember there are all kinds of people on every profession. Don't stay in a bad therapeutic relationship.
I'm so sorry. I can relate. My therapist, in discussing our philosophical beliefs of "what is bad/evil," basically told me I was wrong to make the moral judgment that what my spouse was doing was evil. I was already confused enough, and this therapist was a person I deeply trusted. It's a long journey to get my sense of self and agency back. And no, I will not trust another therapist. I have chosen to trust a couple new friends with bits of my story. I hope you can find someone who will value who you are as a person and your agency.
@@juliekong5013 there are problemic therapists out there that cannot be trusted. I just heard an online conference today with International anti Cult organization and there were multiples of people who dealt with really troublesome if not criminal types. So it's dangerous, and the majority of people are being medicated. It's disgusting.
CNEI Happy, what you describe is very common. I really get out among people. The events, comments, things that people say etc. Can all be very triggering, yes. Life needs living and trauma therapy must be completed. Not every situation, occupation, group, etc will be supportive. We must navigate our way into a healthier lifestyle. It's something we need to nurture and create. Others can't do it for us. Having the right environment is essential. It takes a long time to overcome years of chronic abuse. I have my preferences, and can't be expected to fit another person's idea of what works. We develop our healing path very slowly, it's very complex.
This is why I closed my private counseling practice when my son died in 2016. I set up a youtube channel at that point but never thought of it as a business and never set it up that way. Ultimately, this wasn't great for the success of my channel, but I felt it was my responsibility to heal myself before acting as if I had answers for anyone else. I could make videos on topics I felt confident about but that is far different from getting into people's personal lives and being someone they count on to be healed and able to have objective perspective.
Having trained as a counsellor there are too many people out there practicing who are broken, and not healed themselves first. You recognised your emotional shit, and did a responsible thing…. These people haven’t and I know from my training with them they are completely unselfish aware and bring baggage into other vulnerable peoples lives x
@@e.r.4447 in a therapy session the most important thing is to feel safe!
And that is so difficult!
I trained as a councillor, but yet I went to a psychologist with a Narcissist and was hung it to dry…’ it’s taken year of over and over coping with horrible divorce and thirty year relationship, and fucked over with money from a man who is a millionaire !!! But I’m in my summer house with a blanket with my two beautiful cockers after walking and swimming on beach….. I can’t tell you of the joy I’ve had today of simple pleasures, it taken years to get to a point of listening to Etta Franklin in my summers house, safe, warm secure with my dogs giving me more than a husband of 30 years! I struggle, it’s so hard… but its what you have in your aloneness is far more than being in a ‘couple’ that is so isolated loneliness, it takes a lot of time and finding support is nonexistent unless on forums of like minded people! I truly wish you love and strength ….! We just got to take every day as it comes and not judge ourselves if it a bad day. Spaniels chasing balls and smiles I judge a good day xx
I’ve been in a terribly abusive relationship with a narcissist for 12 years. We split last year and he’s just come back with another hoover. He has just started a counselling course in South London and brought his homework with him in the hope I’d do it for him. I’m truly horrified that this thing will be let loose on people trying to heal.
I just subscribed to your channel. I lost my Son in 2014, I've been married to my husband for 12 years, he drained me emotionally, mentally, physically and discarded me 3 weeks ago. I need healing because I feel devastated
What do you think if a counsellor / therapist type person had implied that narcissism isn’t really a thing and that it was likely the other persons parent being difficult, overbearing, controlling, self absorbed, always the victim etc was actually some form of autism or autistic spectrum (not aspergers)? Is there some truth in that (even if they have no social issues) or is it just some form of unintentional gaslighting on the counsellors part?
I expect it doesn’t really matter on the receivers end but would be interesting to hear advise on this if possible. Ty
I told my therapist to shove it (way too late.)
I am attending meetings of a 12-Step-Program called ACA (Adult children of alcoholics and dysfunctional families). One of the most powerful rules (=boundary) there is the "no crosstalk" rule.
Here is an excerpt of ACA literature: "Somewhere along the line, we learned to doubt our perceptions, discount our feelings, and overlook our needs. Telling people what we thought or felt often resulted in our being ignored, laughed at or punished. We learned to look to others to tell us what to think, what to feel and how to behave.
As children, many of us learned that what we had to say did not matter. We were frequently interrupted and criticized …
No crosstalk creates a new environment in which we can begin to open up to others without fear of being interrupted, misinterpreted, or judged. If we don’t avoid crosstalk, a meeting with a group of codependents can easily become unhealthy.
The sharing session must be a time when each of us is allowed to express our feelings openly and honestly, free from fear of judgement by others. In our meetings we speak about our own experience, and we listen without comment to what others share. We give the person sharing our full, uncritical attention.
We work towards taking responsibility in our own lives, rather than giving advice to others. Crosstalk guidelines help keep our meeting a safe place. This also applies after the meeting and includes giving unsolicited feedback.
Crosstalk is any verbal or physical response to another person’s sharing. Interrupting, questioning, and offering advice, are universally considered to be crosstalk in ACA. Physical touching by patting or hugging during the sharing session is considered crosstalk by some groups. Being touched interrupts a person’s sharing and redirects his or her attention to the other person’s actions. … [This] interrupts thought patterns and disturbs feelings that are about to be expressed.
The safety provided by the “no crosstalk” rule allows a person to experience vulnerability and develop deep levels of trust. Others in the group benefit from this depth of sharing. They have an opportunity to learn more about themselves and to practice detachment. (...)"
Experiencing such a safe space has helped me tremendously
in my recovery from childhood trauma.
What you said has huGe value.. to take it a step further there are self help groups that have a boundary rule that says that after the meeting you must ask the person you approach if you can offer a comment on their share….. People are taught how to have a boundary and have it respected in a civil way..
Sounds like a very good rule to me. I really don’t like it at seminars when I’m talking to someone in the crowd and others chime in.
@@RICHARDGRANNON Your seminar your rules/boundaries. :)
The way it works with us is that the sharing is limited in time. Everyone is allowed to talk for a certain amount of time. This helps us "Adult Children" (or "Aged Child" as I like to call myself ;) to focus on someone else, to give that person space, because I know that I will get the same if I want to.
The way I was formed, expressing a boundary was not seen as an act of self-care and self-expression on my part, but as an aggressive act against my parents.
Even today, I often find myself covering up the boundary violations of others, e.g. by laughing, etc. I am afraid of being perceived as aggressive and therefore excluded.
And in fact, I have not learned how to set boundaries in a relationally acceptable way. For a long time in my adult life, I didn't set any boundaries (maybe I didn't even really notice them) and at some point I only saw a way out in the ultimate setting of boundaries: breaking off the relationship.
Meanwhile, I am so tired of repeating this over and over again. At least I am more aware of it today, and that is the basic prerequisite for change.
"Somewhere along the line, we learned to doubt our perceptions, discount our feelings, and overlook our needs."
That is so true. For me, this is what has caused my adult sorrows, problems, terrible relationships and a life not lived. Thank you for adding that here, it really helps to see it in print. I find it validating, and just these few words help me see the the way out. 🙏.
You make your word dances sound so “good” but they are “bad” Why? Because your arrogance to presume as if other professionals (are you even really one?) don’t already know what you think you know so much about. Every time Grannon you mention Psychology (more often than not) you are meaning Psychiatry. Are you aware of the difference? The arrogant notion that psychology fails due to being without morality is simplistic and dichotomous on your part. Clients aren’t stupid - you assume they are. Yet, you don’t even work with clients. You have succeeded in building a cult-type following that rarely, if ever questions you. You need to find humility and get your facts straight. You have a few relevant points at times but the frame you slide them into suggests trickery.