The Inca have one of the most unique cultures I've ever read about. The more I learn about them the more I'm just utterly fascinated by how they overcame the terrain that they inhabited and developed technologies in such a clever way.
@@pumamanta1771 The Inca were very war inclined. In the centuries prior to Pizzaro conquering them, they conquered many older civilizations that existed before them in the Andes and narrow coastal plains in what is now the general region of Peru. The Inca never invented (exploited) the wheel. There are reasons for this: Their land was very steep, and they lacked heavy draft animals. Their extensive network of well-constructed roads were built with steps. Their roads were very efficient for *chasqius* (the carriers of *khipus* or "the messengers"), and *for the movements of the Inca armies.* All hail Inti, all hail Inca (the son of the sun). This overview is most excellent imho.
I have a theory that the key reason why everything west of the andes is either deserts and drylands instead of jungle is because the andes is such high altitude that it didn't allow clouds>rainfall>vegetation to take place. Either way, Peru is such a fascinating country 😁
Hi, Peruvian and history major here! Fun fact, Khipus were still used under the Spanish viceroyalty. Since the Inca nobility was essentially annexed into the Habsburg Spaniard nobility, and many chieftains and Curacas essentially simply became Dukes, Counts, Bailifs and Lords, many kept using Khipus as means of documenting and archiving information. In fact, many used them in legal procedures and lawsuits, mostly relating to land tenure and native landlords justifying their inheritance and thus their nobility as landlords. I’ve personally seen a lot of affidavits from the Real Audiencia de Lima where official court records from a land dispute cite khipus presented as evidence by one of the parties.
can I ask you about the direction of the number, because other videos I've seen have the , 1, 10, 100 and 1000 rows in the opposite order. recien me di cuenta que no necesitaba preguntar en ingles
@@cnervipLamentablemente no los he visto. Los documentos que he encontrado incluso citan khipus cual si estuvieran adjuntos al documento que estoy leyendo, pero lamentablemente el AGN no los tiene. Tiene el documento, mas no conservan los khipus que deberían estar adjuntos a ellos. Aparentemente esto fue uno de los muchos errores que el archivo nacional cometió al registrar el archivo del siglo XVI. Es otra de las razones por las que es ran dificil descifrar muchos de ellos. Mucho se podría esclarecer si los khipus anexados a documentos se hubieran preservado en conjunto. Lamentablemente cuando se separó el Archivo Nacional y el Museo Nacional de Antropología en los años 20 se separó ambas partes, una pasó al archivo nacional y la otra a la colección arqueológica. Ahora vayan a saber cual khipu va con cual documento.
The fact that khipus, if not writing, represent at least a similar concept makes you wonder if there are other communication mediums existing in the archaeological record that have gone unrecognised because they don't match the typical western understanding of what a written language could look like. Some of the first books I ever read on the Incan civilisation said that khipus were only mnemonic devices used to help officials remember numbers in orally transmitted records. Even at the time I thought that this was obviously contradicted by the historical record, which is full of events where khipus are presented as evidence in disputes and intercepted in transit, revealing plans, etc, stuff that just doesn't make sense if they're only there to act as a memory aid. I'm so glad to see how much progress has been made since then in better understanding khipus and their uses, and look forward to seeing what else comes to light in the coming years.
One impressive thing that every scholarly source seems to skip is that delivering khipus would be hard work but easier and less expensive than books. The chords are lighter, can have more information condensed and most importantly be more resistant to the temperature and humidity changes from running north to south up and down through mountains potentially desserts and jungles . Even modern vehicles have difficulties with those conditions
It seems that basically everything the Andean peoples did was an ingenious adaptation to the geography. They're always one of the cultures I look to to get my head out of the box about how societies operate, especially in a fantasy setting. So many fantasy settings fall into the same cultural tropes as historical Europe and Asia, when there was nothing saying civilizations had to do things that way. Civilizations need systems of social organization, communication, food storage, water supply, construction, energy, etc., but how they go about achieving these things can be very different from the standard models that crept up across the globe because they were often the most obvious systems to use in flat, arable land.
Sometimes I imagined an alternate universe where Khipu had evolved into its own analogue programming language. Now that imagination has been reinforced.
Upon seeing the khipus shown in this video, I immediately thought of early computer punch cards. This came from the way there was a line of larger knots along each string that showed like a semicircle when splayed out, as if to partition the information field.
If you're sceptical about the amount of information and complexity of khipu, such as that that can be encoded in such knots, consider that our writing system is just curled squiggles, possibly considered themselves knots.
@@texasranchadventures though that's computer language, not very human. We can read them but not efficiently. There are reasons why we made css or python to replace it, a compromise.
I was specifically thinking about the difference between a dot and a comma, like they're huge and convey a ton of information but visually they are almost identical. There are also other things like the difference between capitalization, cursive, and bolded lettering, which all can convey information even though it isn't in the literal meaning of the text. Imagine explaining to someone who has never heard of a written alphabet that writing the letters large communicates anger, while writing them slanted can be everything from a citation to roleplaying.
I was thrilled to hear that progress is being made in interpreting khipus. I remember learning about them in high school, and the general consensus then was that, besides numerical records, khipus were a remnant of a record system lost to time. Please update us on any new developments!
I was so dreadfully sad when I learned they might have been a form of writing and that the knowledge of their translation had been lost. When I did an archeology course in Uni, they pointed out that prehistory is a different date in different parts of the world, and the loss of systems like has resulted in North American prehistory being up until around a thousand years ago. Very wretched and miserable that, what with the huge enormity of the genocides that caused it.
@@AncientAmericas i am a MAGYAR speaker from hungary magyar language is pretty close to quetchua/kecsua or the kiche maya languages ki= out in magyar kicsi/kis= small, but chi-ish, or out-chi= beauty, inner power csinos=pretty, handsome (chinos) in magyar be= in, inside, into ki-be= in and out kapu= gate, door, in/out kapu=kibe kap= capture, have, get, release... kapó=the one who get, capo, leader, capturer, capitain...who is CAPeable you need a key to the kapu/gate, to get 1 csomó= 1 knot in magyar, and also meaning a lot, a pile, 1 unit of kipu= a knot write what is based on 1 knot= 1 unit analogy kipu is in MAGYAR!!!, you need the key=magyar to get/kap
UA-cam channels are like Khipus. At their simplest, they can be little more than a yokel and their livestock. But in the hands of a master (like Ancient Americas), they can contain vast amounts of information.
it is so saddening to learn of the downfalls of so many glorious native peoples, but the mere fact that 8 million people speak quechua even today is heartachingly reassuring
I play zampoña. Panpipes. Andeans arrange the pipes in two alternating rows. To write music there are two lines running across the page and numbers written on each line which is the number of the tube you're to play and when you change from row to row there's a diagonal line between the two straight lines. It is an attempt to reproduce quipu on paper and those quipu that have three strings knotted together might be songs.
I also love that colour comes into play with modifying words. It reminds me of NativLang's Patreon-only video on Aztec writing, as well as contemporary scripts like the Ditema Syllabary
I first heard about khipu in the 80s. At the time, we were still computing in BASIC and DOS, and the tasks computers were doing was incredibly simple compared to today. At the time, I looked at the vast collection of (allegedly) numerical knots, and I wondered if there was more to it than *just* numbers - if, perhaps, the array of knots was recording something more complex than just someone's herds or troops. It seems my intuition was closer to the mark than I realized! Thank you for presenting a more modern take on what we know of them!
@@regulate.artificer_g23.mdctlsk Exactly! The thought was very general (I knew nothing about programming at the time, and still know nothing about khipu - but you've hit the nail on the head regarding where my child-mind was going with the concept.
I wrote a paper and gave a short presentation on the quipu as a senior in college back in 2021, and I haven't stayed up to date on new findings since then. One of the more profound pieces I read about them is how they were the embodiment of the Inca, being made of cloth (which was highly valued), being portable for high amounts of travel, and being highly organized.
As usual, great work! a REALLY cool fact to add here, and perhaps the single most obscure yet mind blowing bit of info about Prehispanic civilization, is that there were Quipu (or Quipu like devices) up in Mesoamerica in Central Mexico too! In 1579 Diego de Valadés mentions devices used in Tlaxcala which recorded information via knots and colored rope, even comparing them to Andean Quipu. Then, in 1746, Lorenzo Boturini Benaduci talks about hearing, via informants in Tlaxcala of devices called Nepohualtzintzin (an Aztec/Nahuatl word) which seem to be the same thing Valades talks about. One possible reason these sources are so obscure is because in the 20th century and today, "Nepohualtzintzin" is more associated with an Abacus like device strapped to one's forearm described by David Esparza Hidlago in Computo Azteca, but that device is based on a bunch of unsourced oral interviews, with some indications that Esparza straight up invented the device, his work also being part of a trend of nationalist romanticization of the Aztec during that time in Mexico (Now, i'm the first one to talk about how cool the Aztec are, but a lot of the stuff coming out of that period just isn't scholarly sound and overemphasis the Aztec or even just specific aspects of Aztec culture/history to the erasure of other parts or other cultures for the purpose of presenting a specific national image/history for Mexico at the time). That version of "Nepohualtzintzin" was likely either a speculative hypothetical that got misconstrued, or at worst as an intentional hoax... however, as far as I can tell, the Quipu-like ones are legitmate, though given those 2 accounts I mention are the sole references to them I know of, there's not much to go on. Beyond that, you bring up Caral as an "urban" center, but I've had conversations with Andean archeologists which dispute it was (I think I may have mentioned this to you before: Maybe it was over email when we were working on videos, or maybe it was in a comment, or maybe I never told you yet!): Their position is basically that while it's certainly a monumental site, there's not much evidence of a sizable permanent population or stratification of denizens, and it was likely more a center that was visited by nearby populations at certain times of year for ceremonies and merely had a small group of priests living there at other times, sort of like the theory is for Göbekli Tepe (as far as I know?). Apparently this is how most large sites went in the Andes for a few thousand years before around in 500BC, Chavín de Huántar (one of the main sites from the Chavin civilization) picked up a permanent population of class specialists and became a proper urban town/city, which kicks off Andean urbanism proper with City-states and such. I'm not sure if this view of things is a niche perspective or is the consensus though, since the Andes isn't my wheelhouse. I can send you more info about it if you're curious. I also feel compelled to point out that the mass-burning of codices/books in Mesoamerica was not just of Maya examples, but Aztec, Mixtec, Zapotec, and probably Totonac, Otomi, Purepecha, and other texts too. We know that Tenochtitlan and Texcoco both had large royal libraries and it's likely most sizable cities and towns had at least a few to many books. On the flip side, while you note that efforts by Indigenous nobility and royalty to get formal recognition in the Spanish colonial system was unsuccessful in the Andes, in Mesoamerica, this occasionally saw success, though only sometimes and often only partially: Maybe my single favorite talk/lecture/conference i've ever seen was a presentation by John Chuchiak from March 26th 2021, I believe at a Maya at the Lago conference, which was all about the different legal attempts by Maya rulers and nobles to get formal titles of Spanish nobility and heraldry, and the difficulties they had in contrast to the Aztec, where differences in succession, land ownership, etc in the two societies led to the process being more difficult (though not wholly fruitless) for Maya elites vs Aztec ones. There's also a similar dynamic of presenting existing codices as evidence in such court cases, in one case even privately commissioning their own heraldic emblems with both Spanish and Mesoamerican iconography! In general, ANY talk from Dr. Chuchiak is worth trying to seek out, he's an amazing presenter and even when it's a topic I'm not interested in, his storytelling and oration gets me hooked. Lastly, i'm glad you bring up Urton, Medrano, and Hyland's work: Obviously, my thing is more Mesoamerica, but by far the most interesting thing i've read on Quipu was the "We thought the Incas couldn't write. These knots change everything" article by NewScientist which is a rare example of an enthralling and informative popsci article on Prehispanic archeology (shoutout also to Lizzie Wade's work at Science), and covers their work, including some of the same research you mention in the video. I'll check your bibliography for full papers about them, since I've wanted to dig them ever since I read the article, but if people want more info about their research without committing to a full academic paper, I highly suggest people check out that Newscientist piece: The extra info on and way they describe Hyland's 2017 work in particular is REALLY cool
Woah! I never knew that! That's incredible if its true. That is a very fair point about Caral. There's a lot of debate about whether those settlements are urban. It's been years since did the research for that but if I call there was a population of about 3000-5000 but its completely possible that I could be wrong or those numbers could have been revised. Yes, thank you for clarifying the destruction codices. The Maya incidents are the most famous and I lose sight of the wider picture. I'm going to look up that lecture by John Chuchiak. It sounds extremely interesting! Yes, I read that same article! There was a lot of reporting about Hyland's work and I didn't have a subscription so I read up with other articles but it was very well done! I also recommend that article!
Prehispanic archeology. Now I know a better descriptive term. Thanks! It sickens me to think about the beautiful illuminated codices that Spaniards/Catholics burnt! 1 survived. I happen to live on part of the Trail of Tears route here in MO. It didn't go well for the Cherokees either. :(
@@heremapping4484 There's some mixed information about that: Some sources assert that they didn't even have the same 260 day ritual calander as other parts of Mesoamerica, but i've seen other sources claim that there are there are some known/likely Purepecha day says. One person I know who is very knowledgable about Michoacán archeology has also said that it is now known the Purepecha had scribes, writing, etc in a conversation, though I didn't press them for details. It's a topic I'll look more into at some point.
I’ve found khiou’s fascinating for years. It’s such a clever form of information recording (to avoid the potentially controversial w word). Easier and far more portable than carving on stone, lighter than clay tablets, more stable than wax tablets. So they seem to share a niche with paper/bark/papyrus.
Alternate society where the khipu managed to dominate and people wonder if something as trivial as a few scratches on a clay tablet could really be all that important.
I personally like the idea that khipus are a form of coding so a society like that would find programming and machine language natural and wouldn't develop the same kinds of UIs we do. I mean Khipus in their original form seem like they'd be incredibly easy to use as a storage format for an analog computer.
Khipus reminds me of my college classes in Software Data Structures, I think we're only scratching the surface in how much information can/was included in these devices.
I was a kid in the early 80's when I first read about quipu in a Natl. Geographic, found in a burial site. It mentioned only the theory about quipu being used for accounting, and that they were extremely rare. I was fascinated by the mystery & possibilities of how they could've been used, and always felt sad that thinking we would never know for sure. 40 some years later, and in a few minutes I learned more than I ever dreamed I would. Thank you for this one!
I am astonished at how much I learned about ancient Inca civilization! Thank you very much! One thing that worries me slightly about modern interpretations of some of these khipu is that we are discovering that the colors are important and specific. We also know that dye colors can change over time, so we need to be thoughtful about interpretation. ❤
As an Indian-American I absolutely admire Mexico and Mesoamerica and love learning about their shared history, from the Tikal-Calakmul wars, to the rise of the Nahua kingdoms in Nicaragua and El Salvador, fascinating history. They also gave the world tomatoes, avocados, vanilla, maize, jalapenos, tortillas, tamales, guacamole sauce, and chocolate. And in Peru's case they gave us the potato (loved that episode). Subbed, keep doing what you're doing and much love to Peru and the Mesoamerican nations 🇮🇳❤🇵🇪🇲🇽🇬🇹🇳🇮🇭🇳🇸🇻
The world's cuisines must have been very boring before contact with Mesoamerica. On the other hand sustaining our bodies has become a daily treat for most of us because of the contributions of all the world's people and what they have brought to the table. I however, am always mindful that there are people who have nothing to eat for days on end. We cooperated so well in bringing new foods to each other. Why don't we bring at least a little of that food to those who have none? That part breaks my heart, as I'm sure it does yours also.
@@ChompchompyerdedAgree 100%, imagine a world without mashed potatoes, french fries, hershey's and reese's chocolate, vanilla icecream, thanksgiving turkey, popcorn, corn on the cobb, and pizza with no tomato sauce (marinara), its a world neither of us would want to live in. And yes it absolutely is gut wrenching to know that millions are starving while we live sheltered lives with our familes and fill our tummies. Millions of people in my parents country India deal with starvation and homelessness so i'm not only so grateful to have been born and raised in the US but also so devasted for those unable to make ends meat. We should send more food to those unfortunate souls in Africa, India, and to the homeless shelters here in our country. I hope you live a safe and happy life, bless your kind soul.
Amazingly, kipus were used for 4000 years, so it qualifies as the most endurant writing system. It also evidenced that a continuous culture must have remained in Peru, from the Caral to the Incas, despite the lack of enough archeological record.
Oh my God, if Medrano can find a rosetta stone type link that would be incredible truly. I never thought such an idea was even remotely possible. I will hope against hope that such a breakthrough is possible, it would completely revolutionize and reorder the study of Andean historiography potentially.
Very interesting! Actually, I'd find it very logical if the Incas developed a sophisticated means to convey complex information with the khipus. The conquerors had a problem recognizing the khipu's capacity just because any records they are used in seeing were on paper or vellum with ink. But that doesn't mean that strings couldn't be used for the same purpose.
The Conquistadors immediately understood what the Quipu was, that is why they methodically and thoroughly sought them out and destroyed them. They also executed anyone they believed could read them.
@@El-Comment-8-or Not true. The *Church* (not the conquistadors) banned quipus which they considered to be related to the practice of the traditional religion. There was never any ban on quipus in general, nor were people executed simply for the ability to interpret them.
@@patavinity1262 I don’t know what books you can read about this time period without reading about cases where the conquistadors at the behest of the church purposely erased all knowledge of the Quipus. I’ll go find you a case to cite, it shouldn’t take long to google.
It also occurred to me that khipus would be light and portable, especially if human runners had to carry them over difficult terrain. Imagine carting stone or clay documents in those conditions! Another factor may be that once a recording system acquires an elite of trained practioners, a strong conserving tradition probably sets in. In a (fairly) stable and large scale society like the Incas, the system could be developed and elaborated, recording more sophisticated information but there would be little or no incentive to invent a writng system similar to those in other societies. It is a pity that there is such a long gap in the archaeological record, because it means we do not see the development of quipus from simple systems which may only have recorded how many llamas or potatoes a farmer had, to a system capable of recording abstract concepts like the geneaologies and dynastic histories you discussed. I also wonder if quipu trainees had to leatn how to make and dye cords or whether there was a separate industry manufacturing quipu cord. Or did they use the same string as was in everyday use? Was there also a strong oral tradition and how did this interreact with quipu records? Ideas for a follow up video…
There are parallels to this in the history of computers-different encodings have been used to store characters and numbers, and in the early days these different systems were used concurrently in different types of machines. And binary data can be impossible to read unless you know the encoding used. Also computers had their origins in calculating numbers but now are used to store text, images and so forth. Adding thread colors or other variations essentially adds to the size of the character/symbol set-in the same way that an eight-bit character can only store a limited set of letters, numbers and symbols, but modern Unicode using up to four times the bits can store all the world’s alphabets.
I wonder if color added context in the same way that a file system does. Like similarly colored strings might tell the reader that this is part of a single “file” or “entry”, the nesting of strings does certainly resemble nested file systems.
Loving the name dropping. 😊 I finished this vid, then researched Manny Medrano. He is fascinating! Side note…As a college student, I took an Ethnomusicology class. I will never forget the sorrow in Quechua Woman singing a mourning song to her deceased child. 😢
Knot what i expected. What a complex system of communication, almost like a secret code. very interesting. thank you for the research and presentation.
Amazing video, Khipu get mentioned pretty extensively in most newer Inca documentaries but this shed so much light on the finer details, especially their continued use post-conquest! Stories of legal battles between native nobles and Spanish with khipu as evidence was something I'd never considered, and hammers home how small the gap in societal advancement was - basically nonexistent outside the technology sector.
Can't thank you enough for this video. I've been captivated by khipus for a while, but beyond the decimal-based system it's been difficult to understand how and why researchers suspect they had other uses (and whether those claims are credible). This video clarified a ton. I also love that "is a hot dog a sandwich" metaphor for "are khipus writing". Gonna steal that!
Fascinating video. Looks like there's way more to khipu than what world history textbooks let on. Seems quite reasonable that they could have combined multiple encoding methods. After all, that's what the Japanese and Akkadian/Hittite writing systems do. Also, I love the synergy of you and Veritasium both releasing videos about knots in the same weekend.
I am a knot scientist and I approve. Would you consider an episode on the peabiru, or a mini-episode on the Aleixo Garcia expedition? Not because of the guy, but because of what it tells us about interactions between Atlantic and Andean peoples of South America.
Great video on khipu! I feel like there's a lot of momentum lately in understanding how it works. As a system of records it's so efficient to transport and store, but it doesn't preserve well so we have a subpar corpus to work with. There's a lot of "Old World" bias on the divide between "true writing" and "symbols". As long as the correct information is conveyed, the need to represent phonemes accurately isn't really a necessity.
Of course, the belief that something can only represent numbers, and so can't represent other information is deeply ironic these days, when we are watching this on a computer, that can 'only' represent numbers - and even just 0 and 1s at that.
The khipu seems to function a lot like tally sticks, which were used in Europe until the 20. century. The tally sticks were invented in the palaeolithic, so the first settlers of the Americas might have had at least the idea of them. But in the Andes it's easier to tie knots than search for sticks. Specialist on tally marks need to look at the khipus, if we want to decipher them. It's odd how the Spanish missed the similarities, considering tally sticks were used in Spain. I would be surprised if the colonists themselves didn't used those, too.
The Spanish claimed Quipu were witch craft, and systematically destroyed them and killed everyone who could read them. They had to convince the king and queen and the pope, that they had conquered savages. So they didn’t want to leave any evidence of how advanced and complex the civilization in Peru was.
@@El-Comment-8-or that , is very much not true, i am peruvian, no one claimed quipu were witchcraft, since the position of the church was that witchcraft didnt exist. Quipu was abandoned because the incas like the written word far better than quipus. Do realize, the incas integrated into the spanish empire, as permanente nobility and lords of what would be the viceroyalty of peru.
@@cseijifja Disculpe amigo… no soy Peruano, pero mi esposa y hijas son. Since I met my wife and started visiting Peru every year since twenty years ago, I have read every book I can on Peruvian history. I have done so to teach my children about their Peruvian heritage. Unfortunately in doing so I have found that the Peruvian school system didn’t teach my wife or her family the truth a lot of the time. Often the school system tries to forgive or omit the churches responsiblity for destroying the Inca culture. But I have read it many times and in many places that the first thing the conquistadors did after looting all the gold and silver, was to destroy the huacas and all other sacred objects connected to the Inca religion. I’ve read how the priest that stood beside Pizarro in Cajamarca when they captured Atahualpa, ordered the destruction of all Kuipu and the death of anyone who could read them. Yes… after Pizarro and the first conquistadors were all dead, the Spanish Crown recognized some of the Inca royalty, and ordered an end to the destruction of their culture. But a lot of the new colonists to Peru ignored those orders. It is a complex history, but the end result is that we know more about European history from 2000 years ago than we know of pre-Columbian history in Peru. And it was the church and the first governors of Peru that made sure of that.
@El-Comment-8-or I assumed this before I started my research but there's no evidence that the Spanish mounted a campaign against the khipu. If anything, they appreciated it's applications.
@@AncientAmericas huh… well I’m trying to find a more primary source, but currently I’m reading a website that starts off by explaining that so few Quipus exist because the Spanish destroyed them. It comes up over and over again. I believe it was Toledo who banned them. I’ll do some more research and get back to you.
Love this episode! I've been fascinated by khipu for the last few years since I found out about them. Really goes to show how innovative human beings are.
Thank-you! A refreshing update on a subject I last encountered a half-century ago, and just wonderful to see how developed the topic has become. Terrific job.
I've seen several students write about this topic while missing many important points about it. I am interested to see what I learn from this presentation.
Excellent presentation! It seems the best way to understand a khipu is to see it as a recoding device like a pen and paper. A pen and paper can record numbers, tallies, legal proceedings, calendrical info, symbols, and stories, just as you have shown khipus can. I might add, pen and paper can be used for mathematical calculations, and there is some evidence that khipus were used for that too, especially calendrical and astronomical calculations: the enigmatic "Pachaquipu" being one intriguing and dare I say polemic example.
The most epic writing/record device! Must have been fun to do some scoping for your trip to the Sacred Valley! Was reminded of Ollantaytambo when you mentioned tambos.
This is channel is a treasure, so respectful and admiring of our indigenous cultures, while also filled with insight. Greetings from a happy Guatemalan subscriber
It’s interesting to think of technology as organisation and efficiency rather than hardware. Many of the prehistoric European groupings labelled ‘cultures’ from their material remains may have been equally sophisticated.
Organization is often much more important than physical technologies and history is rife with examples of this. Like Revolutionary France didn't beat the reactionary powers because of having better muskets but because of the Levee en Mess.
I'm using the Inca as a major source of inspiration for the Dwarves in my fantasy novel and I was REALLY hoping this would be a video proving that Khipu were actually a writing system afterall. Le sigh. Oh well, this will definitely help with my worldbuilding! Thank you so much! Also, hot dogs are tacos.
I can't wait to see more of Felipe Guaman Poma de Ayala in your future videos! his writings and illustrations are what turned my interest in colonial peru into an obsession. thank you for all that you do!
The Christian use of the Khipu is very similiar to how you would use Rosary beads. The use of these increased in use during the 16th century with the adoption of the Dominican "Mysteries of the Rosary" which is a sermon which contains a meditation on the life and death of Jesus Christ. Counting rosary beads provide a physical method of keeping count of the number of Hail Marys said as the mysteries are contemplated. So the Khipu-keeping must've been fused with the Rosary practice.
That's exactly what I assumed but none of my sources went into the specifics. I did come across a good article about how they were used as confessional aids and that went into a lot of detail. You'd basically make a pendant for different sins and "count" them with knots.
I love to see that the channel has this amount of support, as someone that lives in the Andes, I see this as invaluable educational comment. Keep it up!
I've watched most, if not all of these videos and I have to say this one was an absolute homerun. Fascinating topic that probably every fan has wanted to know more about, great research, efficient writing, and narration is excellent.
In our modern alfabet we have b and d, and q and p. These look very similar, with the biggest difference being the orientation. So why would the notion that the direction of the knot means something be so hard to believe for some?
I suspect the Khipu was in part like an early IBM hole punch card. The 'program' to translate these was the Khipukumayics, and the khipus were probably specific to the governmental department function they served. Just as a punch card created for a population census would be gibberish if run through the wrong program, a Khipu for livestock records would be difficult, if not impossible to be accurately 'decoded' by a khipukumayic skilled in potato storage records.
This has to be one of the most interesting ways of communicating information I've ever seen. I'm glad that we are finally starting to crack the code of what these were about, but I'm also left wondering if this wasn't a deliberate way of obscuring the information incase it was intercepted by an enemy or just to keep it out of the lower people's understanding.
I personally view it as a form of shorthand. The same language can have different types of shorthand and I imagine there's many ways to encode the same information.
Your video came out right as I'm starting a novel set in Tawantinsuyu. Perfect timing. It's sort of niche, but I'd love a video about the Inca army and its conquest of Ecuador
I knew that these knots were considered SO precious to the Quechua that anyone believed to have tampered with them were automatically executed! Yes, they seemed to have carried far more instructions than just numbers.
Wonderful video in every way -- fantastic topic deeply researched and thoroughly, enthusiastically and clearly presented. I loved it. Possibly the best presentation you've done, and that's saying a lot, because I've been impressed by your videos for quite a while now. It appears to me that, as in some other writing systems, the main limitation of the khipu was that only the exclusive few could read them. Maybe the strictly numeric ones were more widely accessible, and the most sophisticated could only be read by the highly trained. This seems to be what might prevent a record keeping system from becoming a literary system. For poetry to be written, there needs to be enough access to writing for poets to use it. I'd love to learn that khipus may actually have recorded epic poetry and songs as well as straightforward narratives.
Could it be that the Quipucamayocs were integral to the quipus they created? It seems that although there were certain conventions, it also could be that quipus were reliant on their encoder to be sufficiently decoded. When I create shortcuts on my phone or a new password, the encoded meaning is often reliant on some unique signs and references only known to me. In a way, the quipu isn't just a simple record, but also a work of art where the art and artist cannot be fully separated. This help to explain why there appear to be certain conventions such as the decimal system, yet why many quipus have divergent designs that is very hard to compare and decipher. This is further compounded by our lack of preserved quipus, and the fact the individuals the made them and the tradition is long since dead.
I’ve also wondered if knowing the creator is essential to understanding his work. These things were meant to be understood by only a handful of people. They kept state secrets and passed along sensitive information or instruction. No doubt the guys running them from Tambo to Tambo had no idea what they said.
@@kannoramirez2288 Yet, the quipus are very difficult to decipher. If there were a definitive standard, we would more readily be able to discern repeating or similar patterns. This is clerly not the case. I believe that certain quipus was encoded with information that were dependent on the quipucamayocs to be deciphered. We already know from semiotics that signs are very often arbitrarily chosen, and that their relation between signifier and signified is purely conventional and culturally specific aka in this case highly dependent on the knowledge in the inner circle of quipucamayocs. I'm certain that there are patterns, but there might also be a lot of randomsness because of the low sample size and local variation. Lastly, I want to add that an Empire might also want to decrypt information. Diplomatic messages are highly dependant on secrecy. There is definitively an argument that some of the quipus rely on a lost key to be properly deciphered. This was intentional by the rulers and codemakers since they don't want unwanted people to be able to intercept and read the messages. Thus we might be confused when we interact with "random" information encoded into quipus because we have limited understanding of the language and symbolic system used by the Incas. Furthermore, lost in time is the tradition and circumstances that might have made it possible to discern what information would be encoded into the quipu thus we could reengineer the lost key by comparing the "gibberish" with accesible information relevant to the creation of the quipu. I'm certain that quipus served multiple functions, and the variety between quipus and coded threads on a quipu, is a testament to this. It's an extremely fascinating type of technology that just has an alien feel to it.
Yessssss Abstract graphic communication is fascinating, and it’s unfortunate that so much of it is both prone to destruction and untranslatable if the original code is lost. The fact that we know what we do about the khipus is incredible and worth treasuring.
Thanks for this great documentary! I have always thought that at least some khipus might be more than ingenious counting systems and/or memory aids, since khipus definitely have the potential to be used for recording words. I want to add that the two khipus which Sabine Hyland has analysed, are very different from the majority of khipus: they don't have knots! The informations must've been stored by using different colours and differently structured strings. Sabine Hyland doesn't deny at all that khipus have been used as counting systems and memory aids. But she believes that at least some khipus might've been used for recording Quechua words. However, a lot of further research needs to be done. It's important to find more khipus which are made like the two khipus which have been analysed by Hyland. It's also important to establish the age of these khipus. Have they been made before or after Pizarro showed up? It's possible after all that the introduction Latin alphabet has inspired a few ingenous Incas to develop khipus which could record Quechua words. It would've been very useful as a code which could not be read by the Spanish rulers. Important informations could've been recorded which could not be altered by the new rulers, because they wouldn't suspect that some khipus contain Quechua words.
Thank you! And yes, you are correct about the khipu's that Hyland analyzed. They tend to be exceptions rather than the norm. Only further research is going help clarify what their place in history is.
@@AncientAmericas , thanks a lot for the heart. But all of your interesting videos deserve hearts! I have been endlessly fascinated by khipus ever since I learned about these intricate artifacts, when I was still a kid 😀 The people of the Andes have been skilfull textile workers long before the first Spaniards arrived. Therefore it's not surprising that they used their beautiful yarns for creating textile artifacts which contained informations. I have always loved knitting, crocheting, weaving and making macramee, which is created by a series of different knots. And then there is Charles Dickens' Madame Defarge from "A Tale Of Two Cities". This fictive character used knitting for storing coded informations during the French Revolution. Textile works seem to have great potential for storing all kinds of informations. But I don't know any other culture which routinely used textile artifacts in that way.
I don't doubt that the Spanish could have used the khipu based on trust of native agents and/or catching contradictions. But it is suprising that they didn't bother to have any spaniard learning the system completely to have a higher level of certainty.
On the other side of the Atlantic, Luba memory boards had very similar functions, and it shows a different form of literacy from the one that predominates in eurasia.
A knotless Khipu is a practical counting aid and a temporary data storage device. Just tighten the knots to get a permanent record. From there, evolution to a syllabary or phonetic representation system seems natural. Hypothesis: someone playing with a Khipu inserts woven rope rings (or beads) in the ropes and discovers the abacus.
I wondering,if in the the near future you would do stuff like the Mississippians or the hopewell. Great video,I had heard of khipus but never actually knew their use.
At 6:24, the first thing that came to mind was cuneiform, because it's so versatile. Then I remembered Chinese glyphs and imagined symbolizing tones, particles, punctuation, mood, case, status of subject or agent, or any other morphology you can think of. More than likely there's a symbol for each sound, as well, and a system for saying "sounds like." I would so take a course on khipu; the potential complexity is mindboggling and exciting. It also reminded me of Madame de Farge in Dickens' "A Tale of Two Cities." Virtually anything could be encoded. Symbols could determine that the rest of the information on the khipu or a particular thread is in a particular file format, essentially different languages or codes, most likely jargon sets, as in words relevant only for the identified profession or venue or what not. In that way, a string or entire khipu bunch could be otherwise identical but for some tidbit of information in a specific location, completely changing the entire context of meaning. The khipu could incorporate not only language and numerical information, but act as its own card catalog, able to represent absolutely anything. And while it doesn't yet appear that the users of khipu considered the option, there are ways to preserve natural fibers for many times their normal lifespan, such as natural preservatives and resins. They might be stored in archives somewhere, and only the less important information found so far.
The zeroth law of information theory is that you can talk using anything. Anyone who thinks Khipu isn't a writing system doesn't understand this basic fact.
I’m sure this has been discussed or hypothesized through the years of analysis but I have never seen it stated this way. I see they clearly were utilized on some and recently they have concluded names were incorporated. I believe they were maps to locations along the vast Inca trail. While also defining specifically what product and how much of a product was delivered to specific locations. I believe that is why many you look at from museums show very repetitive cord and knot depicted I.e.the same delivery route, product and time of delivery and pickup. Obviously a means of confirming delivery and any return goods would be warranted. With the vast trade present and confirmed clear documentation of shipping routing and timing would have been critical to maintain. If you examine a modern shipping and receiving software defining product, shipping, receipt and payment process one might be prompted to add another point of analysis when evaluating the use. Just some thoughts. Sometimes the simple version is correct or an aspect of what is correct or incorrect.
I'd like to see a study on prison kites. So far as I can tell each organization has their own distinct way for encoding information. That's what this reminds me of.
Sumak riksinkapak, yupaychani (this is Kichwa, a Quechuan language spoken in Ecuador, in English it means: very interesting, thank you). The kipus are like a Rosetta stone that is still waiting to be deciphered!!
22:45 Beyond simply being a oral or textual tradition, this strikes me as being very simply to the way a computer might store information in an array, with various fields. This is purely my own uninformed speculation, but I find it interesting to think about and write if anyone else has had similar thoughts. It may be my own biases showing through, but it seems to me that recording a full textual account on a khipu would be very time consuming and impractical, particularly for the reader. It might make sense then that the information was encoded based on certain fields that would have been known to scribes to follow. The khipus mentioned followed the structure of relationship to previous ruler, lists of conquests and accomplishments, wives and queens, children and their ayllus, and length of reign. Depending on what was needed to be recorded, it might make sense that the various fields could have been encoded in either decimal notation, or in a phonetic format. There are only so many ways a person could be related to the previous ruler, so perhaps this could have been recorded in a decimal format, e.g. the 1000s place could have signified whether they were the first, second, third son/daughter, etc. 100s place could have signified whether they were born from the first, second, third wife, 10s place could have signified whether they were from a different lineage, such as being born from an aunt or uncle, and so on. In effect, perhaps you could have a numeric representation of lineage? A numeric representation like 4321 could perhaps have encoded a meaning like "The fourth son, born of the third wife of the second son from the maternal line". Such an encoding method, if standardized, would have represented a significant compression of information into just 10 knots on a cord, but unless you're aware of the encoding method it just looks like a number. You could very likely do this for any number of things.
The Inca have one of the most unique cultures I've ever read about. The more I learn about them the more I'm just utterly fascinated by how they overcame the terrain that they inhabited and developed technologies in such a clever way.
Well, I believe the Wari is considered pre-Inca and it’s better to consider this the central pre-Inca Andean civilizations.
What are some books you recommend on learning about them? I have been looking for some but can't find any.
@@pumamanta1771 The Inca were very war inclined. In the centuries prior to Pizzaro conquering them, they conquered many older civilizations that existed before them in the Andes and narrow coastal plains in what is now the general region of Peru. The Inca never invented (exploited) the wheel. There are reasons for this: Their land was very steep, and they lacked heavy draft animals. Their extensive network of well-constructed roads were built with steps. Their roads were very efficient for *chasqius* (the carriers of *khipus* or "the messengers"), and *for the movements of the Inca armies.* All hail Inti, all hail Inca (the son of the sun).
This overview is most excellent imho.
I have a theory that the key reason why everything west of the andes is either deserts and drylands instead of jungle is because the andes is such high altitude that it didn't allow clouds>rainfall>vegetation to take place. Either way, Peru is such a fascinating country 😁
Where do you read about it? I’m reading last days of Inca right now and want more books but perhaps more on them and their way of life.
Hi, Peruvian and history major here! Fun fact, Khipus were still used under the Spanish viceroyalty. Since the Inca nobility was essentially annexed into the Habsburg Spaniard nobility, and many chieftains and Curacas essentially simply became Dukes, Counts, Bailifs and Lords, many kept using Khipus as means of documenting and archiving information. In fact, many used them in legal procedures and lawsuits, mostly relating to land tenure and native landlords justifying their inheritance and thus their nobility as landlords. I’ve personally seen a lot of affidavits from the Real Audiencia de Lima where official court records from a land dispute cite khipus presented as evidence by one of the parties.
can I ask you about the direction of the number, because other videos I've seen have the , 1, 10, 100 and 1000 rows in the opposite order. recien me di cuenta que no necesitaba preguntar en ingles
@@cnervipLamentablemente no los he visto. Los documentos que he encontrado incluso citan khipus cual si estuvieran adjuntos al documento que estoy leyendo, pero lamentablemente el AGN no los tiene. Tiene el documento, mas no conservan los khipus que deberían estar adjuntos a ellos. Aparentemente esto fue uno de los muchos errores que el archivo nacional cometió al registrar el archivo del siglo XVI. Es otra de las razones por las que es ran dificil descifrar muchos de ellos. Mucho se podría esclarecer si los khipus anexados a documentos se hubieran preservado en conjunto. Lamentablemente cuando se separó el Archivo Nacional y el Museo Nacional de Antropología en los años 20 se separó ambas partes, una pasó al archivo nacional y la otra a la colección arqueológica. Ahora vayan a saber cual khipu va con cual documento.
@@lucasmatiasdelaguilamacdon7798pero no se hicieron inventarios en ese entonces?
The fact that khipus, if not writing, represent at least a similar concept makes you wonder if there are other communication mediums existing in the archaeological record that have gone unrecognised because they don't match the typical western understanding of what a written language could look like. Some of the first books I ever read on the Incan civilisation said that khipus were only mnemonic devices used to help officials remember numbers in orally transmitted records. Even at the time I thought that this was obviously contradicted by the historical record, which is full of events where khipus are presented as evidence in disputes and intercepted in transit, revealing plans, etc, stuff that just doesn't make sense if they're only there to act as a memory aid. I'm so glad to see how much progress has been made since then in better understanding khipus and their uses, and look forward to seeing what else comes to light in the coming years.
I like your thinking!
Nsibidi moment
Or other communication mediums that use materials that degrade over long periods of time to the point of being unrecognizable!
One impressive thing that every scholarly source seems to skip is that delivering khipus would be hard work but easier and less expensive than books. The chords are lighter, can have more information condensed and most importantly be more resistant to the temperature and humidity changes from running north to south up and down through mountains potentially desserts and jungles . Even modern vehicles have difficulties with those conditions
Never thought of that but that's a good point!
A book, yeah. A strip of paper or parchment? Not really
@@Lucasp110Paper is very fragile and high quality paper is difficult to acquire
It seems that basically everything the Andean peoples did was an ingenious adaptation to the geography. They're always one of the cultures I look to to get my head out of the box about how societies operate, especially in a fantasy setting. So many fantasy settings fall into the same cultural tropes as historical Europe and Asia, when there was nothing saying civilizations had to do things that way. Civilizations need systems of social organization, communication, food storage, water supply, construction, energy, etc., but how they go about achieving these things can be very different from the standard models that crept up across the globe because they were often the most obvious systems to use in flat, arable land.
If a Khipu gets rained on, the ink doesn't run.
As a Peruvian born and raised in Perú, i congratulate you on this video, you explain our culture so well and with respect.
Thank you!
Your culture, now and in the past, fascinates me without end. It's a very rich one.
@@Chompchompyerdedits actually pretty weak compared to other’s
@@CallmeBotakaOrcso is your mom’s sucking abilities but I guess I get what I pay for when it’s so cheap 😩
@@CallmeBotakaOrcno it is a rich culture, but others culture may have been better recorded or preserved
Sometimes I imagined an alternate universe where Khipu had evolved into its own analogue programming language. Now that imagination has been reinforced.
I have been pondering biocomputers in cells which use DNA khipus as logic calculations
Upon seeing the khipus shown in this video, I immediately thought of early computer punch cards. This came from the way there was a line of larger knots along each string that showed like a semicircle when splayed out, as if to partition the information field.
Khipu++
Considering that programming originated in programmable looms the connection is really just right there.
I never clicked so fast for a Ancient America’s video.
We few who know what a quipu is 😂
😂😂😂 I hear you bro I did the same thing.
Ancient hahaha
I left the notification in my phone for almost a day knowing I would click it later 😅
For "an" ancient America video. When did you forget how to use articles?
If you're sceptical about the amount of information and complexity of khipu, such as that that can be encoded in such knots, consider that our writing system is just curled squiggles, possibly considered themselves knots.
How different are b and d, right? Just turned the other way. Probably doesn't matter, just personal preference of the writer.
Computer code is 1 and 0 😂
@@texasranchadventures though that's computer language, not very human. We can read them but not efficiently.
There are reasons why we made css or python to replace it, a compromise.
@@aldrinmilespartosa1578 Well there is the possibility that khipus functioned similarly to code so perhaps it's just a question of culture.
I was specifically thinking about the difference between a dot and a comma, like they're huge and convey a ton of information but visually they are almost identical. There are also other things like the difference between capitalization, cursive, and bolded lettering, which all can convey information even though it isn't in the literal meaning of the text. Imagine explaining to someone who has never heard of a written alphabet that writing the letters large communicates anger, while writing them slanted can be everything from a citation to roleplaying.
I was thrilled to hear that progress is being made in interpreting khipus. I remember learning about them in high school, and the general consensus then was that, besides numerical records, khipus were a remnant of a record system lost to time. Please update us on any new developments!
I'll do my best!
I was so dreadfully sad when I learned they might have been a form of writing and that the knowledge of their translation had been lost. When I did an archeology course in Uni, they pointed out that prehistory is a different date in different parts of the world, and the loss of systems like has resulted in North American prehistory being up until around a thousand years ago. Very wretched and miserable that, what with the huge enormity of the genocides that caused it.
Which high school class did they teach about hip us?
*khipus
@@AncientAmericas i am a MAGYAR speaker from hungary
magyar language is pretty close to quetchua/kecsua or the kiche maya languages
ki= out in magyar
kicsi/kis= small, but chi-ish, or out-chi= beauty, inner power
csinos=pretty, handsome (chinos) in magyar
be= in, inside, into
ki-be= in and out
kapu= gate, door, in/out
kapu=kibe
kap= capture, have, get, release...
kapó=the one who get, capo, leader, capturer, capitain...who is CAPeable
you need a key to the kapu/gate, to get
1 csomó= 1 knot in magyar, and also meaning a lot, a pile, 1 unit of
kipu= a knot write what is based on 1 knot= 1 unit analogy
kipu is in MAGYAR!!!, you need the key=magyar to get/kap
UA-cam channels are like Khipus. At their simplest, they can be little more than a yokel and their livestock. But in the hands of a master (like Ancient Americas), they can contain vast amounts of information.
You flatter me sir!
it is so saddening to learn of the downfalls of so many glorious native peoples, but the mere fact that 8 million people speak quechua even today is heartachingly reassuring
Political systems will always fade away and change but the people keep going.
@@AncientAmericas you’re going to make me cry again:(
I play zampoña. Panpipes. Andeans arrange the pipes in two alternating rows. To write music there are two lines running across the page and numbers written on each line which is the number of the tube you're to play and when you change from row to row there's a diagonal line between the two straight lines.
It is an attempt to reproduce quipu on paper and those quipu that have three strings knotted together might be songs.
Wow! That's really interesting!
I also love that colour comes into play with modifying words. It reminds me of NativLang's Patreon-only video on Aztec writing, as well as contemporary scripts like the Ditema Syllabary
I first heard about khipu in the 80s. At the time, we were still computing in BASIC and DOS, and the tasks computers were doing was incredibly simple compared to today. At the time, I looked at the vast collection of (allegedly) numerical knots, and I wondered if there was more to it than *just* numbers - if, perhaps, the array of knots was recording something more complex than just someone's herds or troops. It seems my intuition was closer to the mark than I realized! Thank you for presenting a more modern take on what we know of them!
You're welcome!
Imagine khipu as a coding language, or a coding language similar/analogous to khipu...
@@regulate.artificer_g23.mdctlsk Exactly! The thought was very general (I knew nothing about programming at the time, and still know nothing about khipu - but you've hit the nail on the head regarding where my child-mind was going with the concept.
I wrote a paper and gave a short presentation on the quipu as a senior in college back in 2021, and I haven't stayed up to date on new findings since then. One of the more profound pieces I read about them is how they were the embodiment of the Inca, being made of cloth (which was highly valued), being portable for high amounts of travel, and being highly organized.
As usual, great work! a REALLY cool fact to add here, and perhaps the single most obscure yet mind blowing bit of info about Prehispanic civilization, is that there were Quipu (or Quipu like devices) up in Mesoamerica in Central Mexico too! In 1579 Diego de Valadés mentions devices used in Tlaxcala which recorded information via knots and colored rope, even comparing them to Andean Quipu. Then, in 1746, Lorenzo Boturini Benaduci talks about hearing, via informants in Tlaxcala of devices called Nepohualtzintzin (an Aztec/Nahuatl word) which seem to be the same thing Valades talks about.
One possible reason these sources are so obscure is because in the 20th century and today, "Nepohualtzintzin" is more associated with an Abacus like device strapped to one's forearm described by David Esparza Hidlago in Computo Azteca, but that device is based on a bunch of unsourced oral interviews, with some indications that Esparza straight up invented the device, his work also being part of a trend of nationalist romanticization of the Aztec during that time in Mexico (Now, i'm the first one to talk about how cool the Aztec are, but a lot of the stuff coming out of that period just isn't scholarly sound and overemphasis the Aztec or even just specific aspects of Aztec culture/history to the erasure of other parts or other cultures for the purpose of presenting a specific national image/history for Mexico at the time). That version of "Nepohualtzintzin" was likely either a speculative hypothetical that got misconstrued, or at worst as an intentional hoax... however, as far as I can tell, the Quipu-like ones are legitmate, though given those 2 accounts I mention are the sole references to them I know of, there's not much to go on.
Beyond that, you bring up Caral as an "urban" center, but I've had conversations with Andean archeologists which dispute it was (I think I may have mentioned this to you before: Maybe it was over email when we were working on videos, or maybe it was in a comment, or maybe I never told you yet!): Their position is basically that while it's certainly a monumental site, there's not much evidence of a sizable permanent population or stratification of denizens, and it was likely more a center that was visited by nearby populations at certain times of year for ceremonies and merely had a small group of priests living there at other times, sort of like the theory is for Göbekli Tepe (as far as I know?). Apparently this is how most large sites went in the Andes for a few thousand years before around in 500BC, Chavín de Huántar (one of the main sites from the Chavin civilization) picked up a permanent population of class specialists and became a proper urban town/city, which kicks off Andean urbanism proper with City-states and such. I'm not sure if this view of things is a niche perspective or is the consensus though, since the Andes isn't my wheelhouse. I can send you more info about it if you're curious.
I also feel compelled to point out that the mass-burning of codices/books in Mesoamerica was not just of Maya examples, but Aztec, Mixtec, Zapotec, and probably Totonac, Otomi, Purepecha, and other texts too. We know that Tenochtitlan and Texcoco both had large royal libraries and it's likely most sizable cities and towns had at least a few to many books. On the flip side, while you note that efforts by Indigenous nobility and royalty to get formal recognition in the Spanish colonial system was unsuccessful in the Andes, in Mesoamerica, this occasionally saw success, though only sometimes and often only partially:
Maybe my single favorite talk/lecture/conference i've ever seen was a presentation by John Chuchiak from March 26th 2021, I believe at a Maya at the Lago conference, which was all about the different legal attempts by Maya rulers and nobles to get formal titles of Spanish nobility and heraldry, and the difficulties they had in contrast to the Aztec, where differences in succession, land ownership, etc in the two societies led to the process being more difficult (though not wholly fruitless) for Maya elites vs Aztec ones. There's also a similar dynamic of presenting existing codices as evidence in such court cases, in one case even privately commissioning their own heraldic emblems with both Spanish and Mesoamerican iconography! In general, ANY talk from Dr. Chuchiak is worth trying to seek out, he's an amazing presenter and even when it's a topic I'm not interested in, his storytelling and oration gets me hooked.
Lastly, i'm glad you bring up Urton, Medrano, and Hyland's work: Obviously, my thing is more Mesoamerica, but by far the most interesting thing i've read on Quipu was the "We thought the Incas couldn't write. These knots change everything" article by NewScientist which is a rare example of an enthralling and informative popsci article on Prehispanic archeology (shoutout also to Lizzie Wade's work at Science), and covers their work, including some of the same research you mention in the video. I'll check your bibliography for full papers about them, since I've wanted to dig them ever since I read the article, but if people want more info about their research without committing to a full academic paper, I highly suggest people check out that Newscientist piece: The extra info on and way they describe Hyland's 2017 work in particular is REALLY cool
Woah! I never knew that! That's incredible if its true.
That is a very fair point about Caral. There's a lot of debate about whether those settlements are urban. It's been years since did the research for that but if I call there was a population of about 3000-5000 but its completely possible that I could be wrong or those numbers could have been revised.
Yes, thank you for clarifying the destruction codices. The Maya incidents are the most famous and I lose sight of the wider picture.
I'm going to look up that lecture by John Chuchiak. It sounds extremely interesting!
Yes, I read that same article! There was a lot of reporting about Hyland's work and I didn't have a subscription so I read up with other articles but it was very well done! I also recommend that article!
Prehispanic archeology. Now I know a better descriptive term. Thanks!
It sickens me to think about the beautiful illuminated codices that Spaniards/Catholics burnt! 1 survived.
I happen to live on part of the Trail of Tears route here in MO. It didn't go well for the Cherokees either. :(
The Purepecha did not have a writing system, in fact theres no evidence of writing in western/northwestern Mesoamerica.
@@heremapping4484 There's some mixed information about that: Some sources assert that they didn't even have the same 260 day ritual calander as other parts of Mesoamerica, but i've seen other sources claim that there are there are some known/likely Purepecha day says. One person I know who is very knowledgable about Michoacán archeology has also said that it is now known the Purepecha had scribes, writing, etc in a conversation, though I didn't press them for details. It's a topic I'll look more into at some point.
@@MajoraZ Having a 260 day ritual calandar is not evidence of a writing system.
I’ve found khiou’s fascinating for years. It’s such a clever form of information recording (to avoid the potentially controversial w word). Easier and far more portable than carving on stone, lighter than clay tablets, more stable than wax tablets. So they seem to share a niche with paper/bark/papyrus.
Alternate society where the khipu managed to dominate and people wonder if something as trivial as a few scratches on a clay tablet could really be all that important.
That's a really cool thought!
I personally like the idea that khipus are a form of coding so a society like that would find programming and machine language natural and wouldn't develop the same kinds of UIs we do. I mean Khipus in their original form seem like they'd be incredibly easy to use as a storage format for an analog computer.
Khipus reminds me of my college classes in Software Data Structures, I think we're only scratching the surface in how much information can/was included in these devices.
I was a kid in the early 80's when I first read about quipu in a Natl. Geographic, found in a burial site. It mentioned only the theory about quipu being used for accounting, and that they were extremely rare. I was fascinated by the mystery & possibilities of how they could've been used, and always felt sad that thinking we would never know for sure. 40 some years later, and in a few minutes I learned more than I ever dreamed I would.
Thank you for this one!
I am astonished at how much I learned about ancient Inca civilization! Thank you very much!
One thing that worries me slightly about modern interpretations of some of these khipu is that we are discovering that the colors are important and specific. We also know that dye colors can change over time, so we need to be thoughtful about interpretation.
❤
Thank you. And yes, a very good point about how the fading of color affects our interpretation of khipus.
As an Indian-American I absolutely admire Mexico and Mesoamerica and love learning about their shared history, from the Tikal-Calakmul wars, to the rise of the Nahua kingdoms in Nicaragua and El Salvador, fascinating history. They also gave the world tomatoes, avocados, vanilla, maize, jalapenos, tortillas, tamales, guacamole sauce, and chocolate. And in Peru's case they gave us the potato (loved that episode). Subbed, keep doing what you're doing and much love to Peru and the Mesoamerican nations 🇮🇳❤🇵🇪🇲🇽🇬🇹🇳🇮🇭🇳🇸🇻
Thank you!
The world's cuisines must have been very boring before contact with Mesoamerica. On the other hand sustaining our bodies has become a daily treat for most of us because of the contributions of all the world's people and what they have brought to the table. I however, am always mindful that there are people who have nothing to eat for days on end. We cooperated so well in bringing new foods to each other. Why don't we bring at least a little of that food to those who have none? That part breaks my heart, as I'm sure it does yours also.
@@ChompchompyerdedAgree 100%, imagine a world without mashed potatoes, french fries, hershey's and reese's chocolate, vanilla icecream, thanksgiving turkey, popcorn, corn on the cobb, and pizza with no tomato sauce (marinara), its a world neither of us would want to live in.
And yes it absolutely is gut wrenching to know that millions are starving while we live sheltered lives with our familes and fill our tummies. Millions of people in my parents country India deal with starvation and homelessness so i'm not only so grateful to have been born and raised in the US but also so devasted for those unable to make ends meat. We should send more food to those unfortunate souls in Africa, India, and to the homeless shelters here in our country. I hope you live a safe and happy life, bless your kind soul.
Amazingly, kipus were used for 4000 years, so it qualifies as the most endurant writing system. It also evidenced that a continuous culture must have remained in Peru, from the Caral to the Incas, despite the lack of enough archeological record.
Oh my God, if Medrano can find a rosetta stone type link that would be incredible truly. I never thought such an idea was even remotely possible. I will hope against hope that such a breakthrough is possible, it would completely revolutionize and reorder the study of Andean historiography potentially.
A long shot but maybe we'll get lucky.
Very interesting! Actually, I'd find it very logical if the Incas developed a sophisticated means to convey complex information with the khipus. The conquerors had a problem recognizing the khipu's capacity just because any records they are used in seeing were on paper or vellum with ink. But that doesn't mean that strings couldn't be used for the same purpose.
The Conquistadors immediately understood what the Quipu was, that is why they methodically and thoroughly sought them out and destroyed them. They also executed anyone they believed could read them.
@@El-Comment-8-oryes they murdered the religious class
@@El-Comment-8-or Not true. The *Church* (not the conquistadors) banned quipus which they considered to be related to the practice of the traditional religion. There was never any ban on quipus in general, nor were people executed simply for the ability to interpret them.
@@patavinity1262 I don’t know what books you can read about this time period without reading about cases where the conquistadors at the behest of the church purposely erased all knowledge of the Quipus. I’ll go find you a case to cite, it shouldn’t take long to google.
@@El-Comment-8-or Nice comment. Now actually watch the video for facts rather than your own imaginings.
It also occurred to me that khipus would be light and portable, especially if human runners had to carry them over difficult terrain. Imagine carting stone or clay documents in those conditions!
Another factor may be that once a recording system acquires an elite of trained practioners, a strong conserving tradition probably sets in. In a (fairly) stable and large scale society like the Incas, the system could be developed and elaborated, recording more sophisticated information but there would be little or no incentive to invent a writng system similar to those in other societies. It is a pity that there is such a long gap in the archaeological record, because it means we do not see the development of quipus from simple systems which may only have recorded how many llamas or potatoes a farmer had, to a system capable of recording abstract concepts like the geneaologies and dynastic histories you discussed.
I also wonder if quipu trainees had to leatn how to make and dye cords or whether there was a separate industry manufacturing quipu cord. Or did they use the same string as was in everyday use?
Was there also a strong oral tradition and how did this interreact with quipu records? Ideas for a follow up video…
There are parallels to this in the history of computers-different encodings have been used to store characters and numbers, and in the early days these different systems were used concurrently in different types of machines. And binary data can be impossible to read unless you know the encoding used. Also computers had their origins in calculating numbers but now are used to store text, images and so forth. Adding thread colors or other variations essentially adds to the size of the character/symbol set-in the same way that an eight-bit character can only store a limited set of letters, numbers and symbols, but modern Unicode using up to four times the bits can store all the world’s alphabets.
A very astute observation!
I wonder if color added context in the same way that a file system does. Like similarly colored strings might tell the reader that this is part of a single “file” or “entry”, the nesting of strings does certainly resemble nested file systems.
Thank you for another stunning episode, makes me so happy to see this type of history being highlighted
Thank you!
Loving the name dropping. 😊 I finished this vid, then researched Manny Medrano. He is fascinating!
Side note…As a college student, I took an Ethnomusicology class. I will never forget the sorrow in Quechua Woman singing a mourning song to her deceased child. 😢
"It's the late 15th century"
Oh shit how long was I asleep?
Knot what i expected. What a complex system of communication, almost like a secret code. very interesting. thank you for the research and presentation.
Thank you! Nice pun there!
I was tied to the screen the whole time. I could knot khipu from watching
Incredible episode! I think this overview is approaching a University lecture level of refinement!
Thank you!
Amazing video, Khipu get mentioned pretty extensively in most newer Inca documentaries but this shed so much light on the finer details, especially their continued use post-conquest! Stories of legal battles between native nobles and Spanish with khipu as evidence was something I'd never considered, and hammers home how small the gap in societal advancement was - basically nonexistent outside the technology sector.
It’s so amazing how many different way ancient people kept track of information and knowledge. The khipu and pacific stick maps most fascinating! 🙏🏽💗
Can't thank you enough for this video. I've been captivated by khipus for a while, but beyond the decimal-based system it's been difficult to understand how and why researchers suspect they had other uses (and whether those claims are credible). This video clarified a ton.
I also love that "is a hot dog a sandwich" metaphor for "are khipus writing". Gonna steal that!
Thank you! I'm glad someone appreciated that metaphor.
From a fiber artist's perspective this is incredibly fascinating !
Fascinating video. Looks like there's way more to khipu than what world history textbooks let on. Seems quite reasonable that they could have combined multiple encoding methods. After all, that's what the Japanese and Akkadian/Hittite writing systems do.
Also, I love the synergy of you and Veritasium both releasing videos about knots in the same weekend.
Thank you! Veritasium's video was just a happy coincidence.
I just kinda assumed that it would be mixed use. It’s both and, not either or.
I am a knot scientist and I approve.
Would you consider an episode on the peabiru, or a mini-episode on the Aleixo Garcia expedition? Not because of the guy, but because of what it tells us about interactions between Atlantic and Andean peoples of South America.
Hmmm... never thought of that but that is a good idea.
Great video on khipu! I feel like there's a lot of momentum lately in understanding how it works. As a system of records it's so efficient to transport and store, but it doesn't preserve well so we have a subpar corpus to work with. There's a lot of "Old World" bias on the divide between "true writing" and "symbols". As long as the correct information is conveyed, the need to represent phonemes accurately isn't really a necessity.
Thank you!
@@AncientAmericasi am happy that this UA-cam channel exist
Of course, the belief that something can only represent numbers, and so can't represent other information is deeply ironic these days, when we are watching this on a computer, that can 'only' represent numbers - and even just 0 and 1s at that.
@@brucewielinga1376 I also bet that the rise of digital technology is what made people give khipus a second look.
The khipu seems to function a lot like tally sticks, which were used in Europe until the 20. century. The tally sticks were invented in the palaeolithic, so the first settlers of the Americas might have had at least the idea of them. But in the Andes it's easier to tie knots than search for sticks. Specialist on tally marks need to look at the khipus, if we want to decipher them.
It's odd how the Spanish missed the similarities, considering tally sticks were used in Spain. I would be surprised if the colonists themselves didn't used those, too.
The Spanish claimed Quipu were witch craft, and systematically destroyed them and killed everyone who could read them. They had to convince the king and queen and the pope, that they had conquered savages. So they didn’t want to leave any evidence of how advanced and complex the civilization in Peru was.
@@El-Comment-8-or that , is very much not true, i am peruvian, no one claimed quipu were witchcraft, since the position of the church was that witchcraft didnt exist.
Quipu was abandoned because the incas like the written word far better than quipus. Do realize, the incas integrated into the spanish empire, as permanente nobility and lords of what would be the viceroyalty of peru.
@@cseijifja Disculpe amigo… no soy Peruano, pero mi esposa y hijas son. Since I met my wife and started visiting Peru every year since twenty years ago, I have read every book I can on Peruvian history. I have done so to teach my children about their Peruvian heritage. Unfortunately in doing so I have found that the Peruvian school system didn’t teach my wife or her family the truth a lot of the time. Often the school system tries to forgive or omit the churches responsiblity for destroying the Inca culture. But I have read it many times and in many places that the first thing the conquistadors did after looting all the gold and silver, was to destroy the huacas and all other sacred objects connected to the Inca religion. I’ve read how the priest that stood beside Pizarro in Cajamarca when they captured Atahualpa, ordered the destruction of all Kuipu and the death of anyone who could read them. Yes… after Pizarro and the first conquistadors were all dead, the Spanish Crown recognized some of the Inca royalty, and ordered an end to the destruction of their culture. But a lot of the new colonists to Peru ignored those orders. It is a complex history, but the end result is that we know more about European history from 2000 years ago than we know of pre-Columbian history in Peru. And it was the church and the first governors of Peru that made sure of that.
@El-Comment-8-or I assumed this before I started my research but there's no evidence that the Spanish mounted a campaign against the khipu. If anything, they appreciated it's applications.
@@AncientAmericas huh… well I’m trying to find a more primary source, but currently I’m reading a website that starts off by explaining that so few Quipus exist because the Spanish destroyed them. It comes up over and over again. I believe it was Toledo who banned them. I’ll do some more research and get back to you.
Love this episode! I've been fascinated by khipu for the last few years since I found out about them. Really goes to show how innovative human beings are.
Yes it does!
I always get excited whenever I see one of your videos grace my feed
Thank you!
Thank-you! A refreshing update on a subject I last encountered a half-century ago, and just wonderful to see how developed the topic has become. Terrific job.
Thank you! It's been a rapidly evolving field in the last two decades.
I've seen several students write about this topic while missing many important points about it. I am interested to see what I learn from this presentation.
I hope you find it very enlightening.
Yes, I found it very informative. Your videos have been a valuable resource to me as an anthropology student. Thank you! @@AncientAmericas
Excellent presentation! It seems the best way to understand a khipu is to see it as a recoding device like a pen and paper. A pen and paper can record numbers, tallies, legal proceedings, calendrical info, symbols, and stories, just as you have shown khipus can. I might add, pen and paper can be used for mathematical calculations, and there is some evidence that khipus were used for that too, especially calendrical and astronomical calculations: the enigmatic "Pachaquipu" being one intriguing and dare I say polemic example.
Thank you! Definitely a lot you can do if you know what you're doing.
New Ancient Americas video is always a special occasion worth celebrating on!
This is absolutely fascinating, I can't wait to see what work on khipus discovers about these amazing cultures and people
I’m not sure I’ve ever spent this much time thinking about khipu since learning about them in grade school, but this was really fascinating!
The most epic writing/record device! Must have been fun to do some scoping for your trip to the Sacred Valley! Was reminded of Ollantaytambo when you mentioned tambos.
Definitely was a lot of fun!
This is channel is a treasure, so respectful and admiring of our indigenous cultures, while also filled with insight. Greetings from a happy Guatemalan subscriber
Thank you!
It’s interesting to think of technology as organisation and efficiency rather than hardware.
Many of the prehistoric European groupings labelled ‘cultures’ from their material remains may have been equally sophisticated.
Organization is often much more important than physical technologies and history is rife with examples of this. Like Revolutionary France didn't beat the reactionary powers because of having better muskets but because of the Levee en Mess.
I'm using the Inca as a major source of inspiration for the Dwarves in my fantasy novel and I was REALLY hoping this would be a video proving that Khipu were actually a writing system afterall. Le sigh.
Oh well, this will definitely help with my worldbuilding! Thank you so much!
Also, hot dogs are tacos.
Hey, if you want to make the khipu a dwarven writing system in your world, don't let reality stop you!
Bro it's inspiration not a copy. Go ahead make it a writing system that'd be dope
If you could do a video about the Tupi-Guarani civilisation in the coast of Brasil (Pindorama as it was called by them) I would be very grateful
They are on the list, but I have no idea when I'll get to them.
I m in love with this channel! You can feel the passion Ancient America has and how much those topics mean to him. Thank you for the amazing content!
Thank you!
Oh hell yes! I've been waiting for a video on this topic from you for a while now! I haven't clicked view so fast in a while!
I can't wait to see more of Felipe Guaman Poma de Ayala in your future videos! his writings and illustrations are what turned my interest in colonial peru into an obsession. thank you for all that you do!
Thank you!
Omg!! You made my day!!! Love it! It’s always great to see one of your videos regardless of how long we have to wait. ❤😊
Thank you! Glad I could make your day!
The Christian use of the Khipu is very similiar to how you would use Rosary beads. The use of these increased in use during the 16th century with the adoption of the Dominican "Mysteries of the Rosary" which is a sermon which contains a meditation on the life and death of Jesus Christ.
Counting rosary beads provide a physical method of keeping count of the number of Hail Marys said as the mysteries are contemplated. So the Khipu-keeping must've been fused with the Rosary practice.
That's exactly what I assumed but none of my sources went into the specifics. I did come across a good article about how they were used as confessional aids and that went into a lot of detail. You'd basically make a pendant for different sins and "count" them with knots.
I love to see that the channel has this amount of support, as someone that lives in the Andes, I see this as invaluable educational comment. Keep it up!
Thank you!
I've watched most, if not all of these videos and I have to say this one was an absolute homerun. Fascinating topic that probably every fan has wanted to know more about, great research, efficient writing, and narration is excellent.
Thank you!
Great topic! Glad to see this covered
Thanks Portal!
It's good to see how this understanding of history is being clawed back.
In our modern alfabet we have b and d, and q and p. These look very similar, with the biggest difference being the orientation. So why would the notion that the direction of the knot means something be so hard to believe for some?
Appreciate the work you do.
Thank you!
I suspect the Khipu was in part like an early IBM hole punch card. The 'program' to translate these was the Khipukumayics, and the khipus were probably specific to the governmental department function they served. Just as a punch card created for a population census would be gibberish if run through the wrong program, a Khipu for livestock records would be difficult, if not impossible to be accurately 'decoded' by a khipukumayic skilled in potato storage records.
I learned so much, thank you for this! Would love to see a video on wampum belts sometime
Maybe someday!
This has to be one of the most interesting ways of communicating information I've ever seen. I'm glad that we are finally starting to crack the code of what these were about, but I'm also left wondering if this wasn't a deliberate way of obscuring the information incase it was intercepted by an enemy or just to keep it out of the lower people's understanding.
I personally view it as a form of shorthand. The same language can have different types of shorthand and I imagine there's many ways to encode the same information.
I’ve been waiting for something like this for years!
Ta-da!
Your video came out right as I'm starting a novel set in Tawantinsuyu. Perfect timing. It's sort of niche, but I'd love a video about the Inca army and its conquest of Ecuador
When you're finished with the book, send it my way so I can buy a copy of it.
@@AncientAmericas I'll send you a free copy
The combination of chasqis and khipu produce a relatively high bandwidth network for passing datagrams. Very interesting.
Oh yeah!! Another great video presentation!! Keep up the good work sir, love this channel 👍✌️
Thank you!
After the Veritasium video from yesterday, this was instantly interesting & not what I expected.
Huh, I didn't even see that. What a coincidence!
I knew that these knots were considered SO precious to the Quechua that anyone believed to have tampered with them were automatically executed! Yes, they seemed to have carried far more instructions than just numbers.
I just learned about these today so I was very pleased to see a long video that I could get into from a channel I’m already subscribed to :D
Happy to help!
Wonderful video in every way -- fantastic topic deeply researched and thoroughly, enthusiastically and clearly presented. I loved it. Possibly the best presentation you've done, and that's saying a lot, because I've been impressed by your videos for quite a while now. It appears to me that, as in some other writing systems, the main limitation of the khipu was that only the exclusive few could read them. Maybe the strictly numeric ones were more widely accessible, and the most sophisticated could only be read by the highly trained. This seems to be what might prevent a record keeping system from becoming a literary system. For poetry to be written, there needs to be enough access to writing for poets to use it. I'd love to learn that khipus may actually have recorded epic poetry and songs as well as straightforward narratives.
Thank you so much!
I think there were very important khipu tracking astronomy affecting land and weather that affected agriculture.tracked cataclysms.
Could it be that the Quipucamayocs were integral to the quipus they created? It seems that although there were certain conventions, it also could be that quipus were reliant on their encoder to be sufficiently decoded. When I create shortcuts on my phone or a new password, the encoded meaning is often reliant on some unique signs and references only known to me.
In a way, the quipu isn't just a simple record, but also a work of art where the art and artist cannot be fully separated. This help to explain why there appear to be certain conventions such as the decimal system, yet why many quipus have divergent designs that is very hard to compare and decipher. This is further compounded by our lack of preserved quipus, and the fact the individuals the made them and the tradition is long since dead.
I’ve also wondered if knowing the creator is essential to understanding his work. These things were meant to be understood by only a handful of people. They kept state secrets and passed along sensitive information or instruction. No doubt the guys running them from Tambo to Tambo had no idea what they said.
An Empire would made sure they become standardized.
@@kannoramirez2288 Yet, the quipus are very difficult to decipher. If there were a definitive standard, we would more readily be able to discern repeating or similar patterns. This is clerly not the case. I believe that certain quipus was encoded with information that were dependent on the quipucamayocs to be deciphered. We already know from semiotics that signs are very often arbitrarily chosen, and that their relation between signifier and signified is purely conventional and culturally specific aka in this case highly dependent on the knowledge in the inner circle of quipucamayocs. I'm certain that there are patterns, but there might also be a lot of randomsness because of the low sample size and local variation.
Lastly, I want to add that an Empire might also want to decrypt information. Diplomatic messages are highly dependant on secrecy. There is definitively an argument that some of the quipus rely on a lost key to be properly deciphered. This was intentional by the rulers and codemakers since they don't want unwanted people to be able to intercept and read the messages. Thus we might be confused when we interact with "random" information encoded into quipus because we have limited understanding of the language and symbolic system used by the Incas. Furthermore, lost in time is the tradition and circumstances that might have made it possible to discern what information would be encoded into the quipu thus we could reengineer the lost key by comparing the "gibberish" with accesible information relevant to the creation of the quipu.
I'm certain that quipus served multiple functions, and the variety between quipus and coded threads on a quipu, is a testament to this. It's an extremely fascinating type of technology that just has an alien feel to it.
Yessssss
Abstract graphic communication is fascinating, and it’s unfortunate that so much of it is both prone to destruction and untranslatable if the original code is lost. The fact that we know what we do about the khipus is incredible and worth treasuring.
Thank you for introducing me to yet another amazing piece of history.
You're welcome!
Great title for a great topic!
Thank you!
"Next best thing"? For them it was the best thing. Good study. Thank you for reminding me that mankind is amazing.
Thank you! Mankind is amazing!
Thanks for this great documentary!
I have always thought that at least some khipus might be more than ingenious counting systems and/or memory aids, since khipus definitely have the potential to be used for recording words.
I want to add that the two khipus which Sabine Hyland has analysed, are very different from the majority of khipus: they don't have knots! The informations must've been stored by using different colours and differently structured strings. Sabine Hyland doesn't deny at all that khipus have been used as counting systems and memory aids. But she believes that at least some khipus might've been used for recording Quechua words. However, a lot of further research needs to be done. It's important to find more khipus which are made like the two khipus which have been analysed by Hyland. It's also important to establish the age of these khipus. Have they been made before or after Pizarro showed up? It's possible after all that the introduction Latin alphabet has inspired a few ingenous Incas to develop khipus which could record Quechua words. It would've been very useful as a code which could not be read by the Spanish rulers. Important informations could've been recorded which could not be altered by the new rulers, because they wouldn't suspect that some khipus contain Quechua words.
Thank you! And yes, you are correct about the khipu's that Hyland analyzed. They tend to be exceptions rather than the norm. Only further research is going help clarify what their place in history is.
@@AncientAmericas , thanks a lot for the heart. But all of your interesting videos deserve hearts!
I have been endlessly fascinated by khipus ever since I learned about these intricate artifacts, when I was still a kid 😀 The people of the Andes have been skilfull textile workers long before the first Spaniards arrived. Therefore it's not surprising that they used their beautiful yarns for creating textile artifacts which contained informations.
I have always loved knitting, crocheting, weaving and making macramee, which is created by a series of different knots. And then there is Charles Dickens' Madame Defarge from "A Tale Of Two Cities". This fictive character used knitting for storing coded informations during the French Revolution. Textile works seem to have great potential for storing all kinds of informations. But I don't know any other culture which routinely used textile artifacts in that way.
I don't doubt that the Spanish could have used the khipu based on trust of native agents and/or catching contradictions. But it is suprising that they didn't bother to have any spaniard learning the system completely to have a higher level of certainty.
Eh, I guess they had better things to do.
Awesome video. Thank you for your work.
Thank you!
Museo Larco in Lima.
was where I have seen the Khipu very complex.
The knots are the count of something
the color designates the thing being counted.
Thank you. The more I learn about the Inca, the more information I desire.
Phenomenal content as always. Keep up the great work
Thank you!
On the other side of the Atlantic, Luba memory boards had very similar functions, and it shows a different form of literacy from the one that predominates in eurasia.
I had absolutely no idea Khipu were used so long and prolifically!
Neither did I until I started writing this episode.
A knotless Khipu is a practical counting aid and a temporary data storage device. Just tighten the knots to get a permanent record. From there, evolution to a syllabary or phonetic representation system seems natural.
Hypothesis: someone playing with a Khipu inserts woven rope rings (or beads) in the ropes and discovers the abacus.
I wondering,if in the the near future you would do stuff like the Mississippians or the hopewell. Great video,I had heard of khipus but never actually knew their use.
Definitely plan on covering those down the road.
He did cover Cahokia
At 6:24, the first thing that came to mind was cuneiform, because it's so versatile. Then I remembered Chinese glyphs and imagined symbolizing tones, particles, punctuation, mood, case, status of subject or agent, or any other morphology you can think of. More than likely there's a symbol for each sound, as well, and a system for saying "sounds like." I would so take a course on khipu; the potential complexity is mindboggling and exciting.
It also reminded me of Madame de Farge in Dickens' "A Tale of Two Cities." Virtually anything could be encoded. Symbols could determine that the rest of the information on the khipu or a particular thread is in a particular file format, essentially different languages or codes, most likely jargon sets, as in words relevant only for the identified profession or venue or what not. In that way, a string or entire khipu bunch could be otherwise identical but for some tidbit of information in a specific location, completely changing the entire context of meaning. The khipu could incorporate not only language and numerical information, but act as its own card catalog, able to represent absolutely anything. And while it doesn't yet appear that the users of khipu considered the option, there are ways to preserve natural fibers for many times their normal lifespan, such as natural preservatives and resins. They might be stored in archives somewhere, and only the less important information found so far.
The zeroth law of information theory is that you can talk using anything. Anyone who thinks Khipu isn't a writing system doesn't understand this basic fact.
Wow, if you wanna make a follow up where you just indulge in details and stuff about kipu, please go for it!
And let people really see how unhinged and insane I am? Maybe not the best idea...
Would definitely like to hear more about the Wari
We'll get to them someday!
I’m sure this has been discussed or hypothesized through the years of analysis but I have never seen it stated this way. I see they clearly were utilized on some and recently they have concluded names were incorporated. I believe they were maps to locations along the vast Inca trail. While also defining specifically what product and how much of a product was delivered to specific locations. I believe that is why many you look at from museums show very repetitive cord and knot depicted I.e.the same delivery route, product and time of delivery and pickup. Obviously a means of confirming delivery and any return goods would be warranted. With the vast trade present and confirmed clear documentation of shipping routing and timing would have been critical to maintain. If you examine a modern shipping and receiving software defining product, shipping, receipt and payment process one might be prompted to add another point of analysis when evaluating the use. Just some thoughts. Sometimes the simple version is correct or an aspect of what is correct or incorrect.
I'd like to see a study on prison kites. So far as I can tell each organization has their own distinct way for encoding information. That's what this reminds me of.
Absolutely!
That would be a cool topic but probably best tackled by another channel.
@@AncientAmericas true that
Sumak riksinkapak, yupaychani (this is Kichwa, a Quechuan language spoken in Ecuador, in English it means: very interesting, thank you). The kipus are like a Rosetta stone that is still waiting to be deciphered!!
22:45 Beyond simply being a oral or textual tradition, this strikes me as being very simply to the way a computer might store information in an array, with various fields. This is purely my own uninformed speculation, but I find it interesting to think about and write if anyone else has had similar thoughts.
It may be my own biases showing through, but it seems to me that recording a full textual account on a khipu would be very time consuming and impractical, particularly for the reader. It might make sense then that the information was encoded based on certain fields that would have been known to scribes to follow. The khipus mentioned followed the structure of relationship to previous ruler, lists of conquests and accomplishments, wives and queens, children and their ayllus, and length of reign. Depending on what was needed to be recorded, it might make sense that the various fields could have been encoded in either decimal notation, or in a phonetic format.
There are only so many ways a person could be related to the previous ruler, so perhaps this could have been recorded in a decimal format, e.g. the 1000s place could have signified whether they were the first, second, third son/daughter, etc. 100s place could have signified whether they were born from the first, second, third wife, 10s place could have signified whether they were from a different lineage, such as being born from an aunt or uncle, and so on. In effect, perhaps you could have a numeric representation of lineage? A numeric representation like 4321 could perhaps have encoded a meaning like "The fourth son, born of the third wife of the second son from the maternal line". Such an encoding method, if standardized, would have represented a significant compression of information into just 10 knots on a cord, but unless you're aware of the encoding method it just looks like a number. You could very likely do this for any number of things.
I have a big blindspot when it comes to South American history, so these videos are very nice to have around.