Or these companies were never the quality people make them out to be. Fjällräven is a casual, milquetoast outdoor brand, based in Sweden, where the climate overall is relatively mild. It works fine for that, but get the marketing department involved and suddenly people think it's some rugged outdoor brand because a few choice items are more durable than they're used to. You will never see Fjällräven or many other brands on actual expeditions, even though some pictures make some people think so.
Рік тому+93
Hi Luke! Hope you’re well and that you’re enjoying the outdoors, as always! We just came across your review on the Abisko Tarp and the windsack and we appreciate the transparent feedback. Our Field Test Coordinator has emailed you to get some more information on your experience and address your concerns directly - we obviously want to make this right. Hopefully hear from you soon! / The Fjällräven team
@@oldgrunt5569 That doesn't prove that he lies. That proves, at best, that his experience is different from yours. To prove a lie, you'd need to actually point to a misrepresentation of a fact and, furthermore, that this was an intentional misrepresentation (an attempt to deceive). I'm not sure you know what a lie is. When someone is wrong, it's not necessarily a lie. When someone hates your favorite product, it's not necessarily a lie.
Disappointed and surprised to hear it has performed so badly. I love Fjallraven products but won’t be going near this one. Thanks for the great and honest review.
they won't take much notice. That is the ONE thing Luke over estimates. He is just one more dude on youtube rating gear. Companies won't make command decisions based on his opinion. He thinks they do, but they don't.
@@markthomas2436 Luke could provide a long list of companies that have contacted him after one of his review. Luke set a high bar when he was one of the first to call out MSR for their leaky tents.
Sil-sil products need to be seam sealed. It's just as simple as that. You can't seam tape sil-sil, as current seam tapes won't adhere to silicone. Manufacturers don't want to seam seal, because it greatly extends the manufacturing time/complexity, as they need to leave it to cure before they can package it. Most manufacturers who are using sil-sil materials simply state that you need to seam seal it yourself (or offer to seam seal for an extra charge). Sounds like Fjallraven didn't want to do that. Maybe they're positioning themselves more as a "lifestyle" product, assuming that their customers won't actually use their products in adverse weather.
For anyone looking for more recomendations. I can absolutelly recommend the DD hammocks 3x3m tarp as well. Might not be the lightest and it doesn't pack so small, but it's relatively cheap (I think I got it for around 60USD) and it's great quality for the money.
Thank you for calling them out. They sell their souls for money by cutting corners for cheaper manufacturing and higher profit margins -- all while charging the customer the same or more for an inferior product. On a side note, I bought a Teton Mountain Ultra 1 person tent and put out through the ringer over the last 2 weeks. Lots of rain, 30mph sustained winds, and not a single drop got in the tent. I was impressed! Thank you for always testing these things for us and letting us make informed purchases!
I have several pairs of Fjällräven trousers. Always loved them, but the newest pair I have is not built to the same standard as my older pairs. I guess they've gone the same way as a number of other historic outdoor brands...started chasing the "high street fashion" market to boost sales and lost sight of their core market. Being from rhe UK, one if the things I love about my older Fjällräven trousers is that the right hand thigh pocket takes a standard UK Ordnance Survey map and closes fully. My newest pair takes the map but doesn't quite close. Looks as if they've shaved half a cm (1/4 inch) off the pocket length!
Luke thank you for your videos and for your integrity. I've never seen a tarp stretch to the degree that this one does. I concur with your analysis. A shift has taken place in the manufacturing process with the manufacturer that suddenly has seriously compromised the quality of their product. My sincerest wish is that they see this video and take it to heart making the necessary changes needed to bring them back to previous quality levels.
I bought a tarp from AMOK. They claim the same, it's waterproof but, they still include a tube of seam sealant just in case you'd prefer to seal it. I love the tarp. I sealed it and it's been wonderful. The batwing shape seams to help the tarp in wind and staying taught. It also is available in a cool camo.
Luke, there is so much outdoor gear that is very overpriced and no huge advantage offered. Can you test and review some cheap alternatives? We were discussing using painters poles in place of Elephant poles……ideas like that. A lot of us use gear that has been re-purposed for camping. You did tests of the cheapest tents…..would love to see an extension of that concept.
I can support that issue with Fjallraven. I bought a Abisko View 2 Tent last year as a (very pricy) follow up to many impressive Fjallraven product that I had in the past. I abolutely love the tent as a general concept. As obvious by the name, the tent is constructed similar to the Tarp and it has the same issues. Very fitting for a swedish company, my tent failed me during a heavy rain while camping in sweden. Nothing monsune like, just heavy rain which it should easily survive. I will give it another try after seamsealing everything myself, but this is absolutely unexceptable for a tent in that price category. As there is a very positiv review for that tent (earlier fabrication date) on the TOGR channel as well, I would recommend to add a disclaimer,
Purchased the Aquaquest safari 15x15 after watching your reviews and it has performed exceptional to provide shelter in high heat and high wind areas we have gone camping in recently.
Hey there, just watched your video on "outdoor" and I must say, your content is top-notch! Now, let me talk about this new project I stumbled upon - freebeat's Morph 2-in-1 e-Bike. The fact that it can be charged indoors is a game-changer! Imagine the convenience of recharging while working out at home. Plus, with its 750W motor, I can effortlessly conquer any terrain and reach speeds of up to 20mph. The 80mm front suspension and puncture-resistant fat tires ensure a smooth ride, no matter the conditions. And let's not forget the IPX5 Waterproof finish for those unexpected weather changes. Count me in as a supporter for this amazing e-bike project!
That price tag is insane when a tarp with a similar weight and size is available from Paria, but that's only 1/3 the price. I also have a Kammock tarp which is similar, but a bit lighter.
Hello from Indiana USA and this 62 year old lady 😌. Love your videos 😊😍. Hello to you and your wife 👋💖. Great presentation of the information 😄. Thanks for sharing this with me.
Thanks Luke, for taking your time, effort & Equipment to provide this agenda free review. I've read all the comments up to this point. I agree with many that said nice things about DD Tarps & AquaQuest Tarps. I've often wondered how long guyout lines should be on my AquaQuest. I've just finished creating sufficient number of 10' long guyout lines that are with the tarp & stakes in its storage sack. Warm Regards from Reno, Nevada.
Don't use dyneema on your guylines. It doesn't stretch so the tarp has to take all the stresses of wind and rain. If you use something like paracord, it's elastic and much gentler on the tarp. Fjallraven have been making overpriced products for years based on the back of their Kanken bag and Ray Mears' name. I'm glad they're finally being outed.
I have plenty of great things from Fjallraven. Never heard of Ray Mears. Have zero interest in the Kanken. In my experience, their jackets, pants and basic backpacks are great. Everything else is expensive just because of the logo and I'd never consider buying them.
@@aus87185- even their clothing is so overpriced compared to the quality, it's not even worth looking at anymore. At least not in Europe. Unfortunately there's too much of a focus on making money and not making great products. It's a shame (and yeah, I have 6 pairs of pants, 3 shorts and a couple of jackets). And I have to admit, that the craftsmanship quality is not what I would expect, given the price tag. The G-1000 material is still comfortable to wear, but the durability of the products is definitely not impressive by any means. I hardly any know other die hard outdoor freaks that even look towards Fjällräven for new gear - and the brand used to be the go to standard...
@@christianrahbek4186 honestly if you have that many of their outdoor products and you've found their durability to be terrible, I'd love to know what you're doing in them. Genuinely. I've spent countless hours hiking in mine in all kinds of conditions. 13hr day hikes, scrambling on sharp rock, slipping on ice and in snow, snow shoeing etc etc. You could still put them back on the shelf and nobody would know the difference. Pants and jackets both look flawless. Not so much as a stray thread. In my experience, their actual outdoor gear is worth the higher price tag. Their streetwear though (t shirts, caps etc) are aimed at the fanboys who just want to rep the brand. I agree those are overpriced and it's why I don't own any.
I'm no expert but, from my experience and logic I'm thinking that stretch in lines means the wind jerks the tarp around more causing considerable stress on the tie off points. It seems stretch would not be wanted in the lines.
THX for the heads up ! I need a new tent for this years adventure and was looking at fjällräven tents......after this no thanks ! Need to find another brand. Thanks for the review
Because of you reviews, I have a 10' x10' Aquaquest Defender and a 15' x' 15' too. For car camping, these work well and I don't have to mind the weight. If I was still able to backpack, weight would be a major factor and I would probably had considered getting this reviewed tarp, for the small pack size and lower weight. Even that stretch factor would be a hard sell, but with the amount of leaking around the stitching, I would have avoided this. Thanks for your review and I hope people consider this before buying.
I got the Hilleberg Namjat tent (and a polyester Hilleberg tarp), it's made from a similar nylon to what Fjällraven uses. The tent absolutely is waterproof, it just rocks in all conditions, I put in waay over a thousand nights in it and I love it...but man does that material stretch:-). You get the hang of it after a while and it just becomes second nature to adjust it betwwen it's max and min stretch cycle, that said it always goes back to normal (unlike my HennessyHammocks tarp, which stretches and has just stayed stretched ever since). It's a tiny hassle and I had forgotten it was a downside until you just mentioned it now. You're complaining of the price over there in the States, the European price is even more oouch:-D. Great review as always mate.
I know hes a small cottage business, but im really so surprised that no one in these tarp videos ever mentions Cooke Custom Sewing. Dan Cooke's products are fantastic and total staples for trips here in canoe country.
The local canoe shop Rutabaga sells Cooke Custom Sewing tarps. I have heard very good things about them, but have no experience yet. I just looked at their Easton tarp poles last week and they seemed very reasonably priced
He’s not a cottage industry guy, he’s an Amazon/cheapest product channel. He peddles One Tigris and similar low end product/ affordable but not longevity gear. Garage Grown Gear has great resources for what you are taking about and I agree. Yes Fjallraven is premium and people say that there are cheaper alternatives, ok cool. I’ve had this tarp for two years and was surprised they didn’t seam seal it. However it took me twenty minutes and has held up without a flaw.
Thank you for that informative review. My 2nd tarp was a 10 x 10 silnylon, loved it, and then I started researching other materials, first cuben fiber, too expensive, then 10 x 12 silpoly, and for now, it is the way to go, went from 3.5lbs to 1.5lbs. All home made in the USA!
Thanks for the great review Luke. I am looking for a tarp to extend my truck tent so I can step out into the shelter of my kitchen area but an leery about pulling the trigger. Good to learn which ones to stay away from and which ones are in the running for my money. One Tigris may be the way I go. Stay safe and God bless.
I have the 4X4 meter DD TARP...Absolutely love it....been in down pours in Germany and Norway...not one leak or problems....I keep it in my auto along with other emergency equipment....
Yeah, and even their pants and stuff lost quality over the last couple of years. Just expensive and a fancy name, that's it nowadays. They supposed to make good stuff, but those times are gone.
I bought a generic polyester(i believe) tarp a few yrs ago, i set it up and sprayed with a hose to see where it needed silicone spray. I sprayed those spots heavily and then gave the whole tarp a once over, its protected me from several SEVERE monsoon storms since then. 10×12 $35 gold armor(brand) the only thing is I wouldn't buy it today unless I had no choice because although its not 100% possible im attempting a Chinese boycott lol its not easy but damn, im trying
Luke, I really appreciate your reviews and watch almost all of them ongoing. Two points of confusion with this one though. You say the lines are 6 feet long but then they would hardly reach the ground straight down from your poles. I believe you mean 6 meters which would be 18 ft. You prefer them 9 feet which could mean 9 meters or 27 feet. Second, you mention using that tarp 3 years ago. How do we know if the company didn't fix these issues since you purchased it? How do we know the leaking or stretch wasn't a temporary batch/lot issue for only some of those tarps a few years back?
Hi Luke I have just purchased a Fjällräven dome 2 Keb tent. I have not used yet about to winter camp on Dartmoor! Wish I had your info earlier. Look forward to your reviews. Steve
Wow! That is a big letdown. I agree that Aqua Quest makes incredible tarps. I've used an AQ Safari 10X10 For years from stealth camping to camping in my van as an awning. I've experienced zero issues with rain or wind. Before downsizing to live the van life, I had a dozen different tarps including military surplus tarps. The Safari was the only tarp I kept.
Thanks for the review. I was going to buy this however I’ve opted for a British army basher. I’ve used them for years and can’t pick any faults other than their weight. I’ve also just bought an abisko lite 3, first outing was in very heavy rain and I can confirm it is very waterproof.
Luke, have you ever heard of DD Hammocks tarps? 190 T Polyester, PU treated 3000 mm waterproof coating... You are Honest, I like your reviews. Keep on the way!
Based upon this young man's recommendation; A couple years ago I purchased the Aqua Quest Defender Tarp - 100% Waterproof Heavy Duty Nylon Bushcraft Survival Shelter - 13 x 10 ft Camo Kit for about $130. (Now they're around $150) It's a heavier tarp at 4.2 pounds but it's just what I needed for my particular needs/conditions. (heavy rain and snow} I've not had any problems at all with it. 🌧🌨🌩❄🤪
@@asmith7876 I agree. And if you are going to depend on a tarp for your shelter, that is, to protect your life, a couple extra pounds is not a big deal.
Way to go on the recommendation on the guy line length. Where I go in Colorado, I don’t even carry stakes because at that length there’s always trees or logs to tie off to.
@@leecasteen yeah it is strange :/. I would of expected him to know better. I have a number of sil tents and gear from different manufacturers, all of it needed sil seam sealing for that extra bit of protection in the British weather
Thanks, Luke. Again, you have proven why you are hands down the best gear reviewer on youtube. I would really like you to review Some of the Mystery Ranch Bridger series packs. Cheers!
I was thinking about this tarp purely because I believed the brand was the Gucci of the outdoors. Looks like I will be going for the DD super lite 3x3 then. 👍🏼
@@leonatkins3957 I do have the 4x4 DD but that’s just a monster tarp. The super lite 3x3 is lovely. (Expensive too) but I thought the fjalraven was just in another league. It’s van for my hammock I’ve got a lovely tarp with doors by napsack because I only use the hammock in winter. I want to be out in summer too. Atleast I know DD isn’t perfect but it’s waterproof! The bare minimum you’d expect from a tarp 😂
As someone who's designed tarps and tents for over two decades. Many of which have won national and international awards and copied by competitors. I'll have this to say about silicone coated nylon tarps, or shelters made with any silicone coated fabrics. To ensure a waterproof seam, they need to be hand seam sealed. Standard seam tape does not stick to silicone. There is no factory applied seam sealing for these kind of shelters. And we deal with factories around the globe. The advantage to silicone is that once sealed, it's sealed for life. Nor will it mold or mildew. Polyurethane coating will mold, mildew and in continued wet conditions, delaminate. The stretching is a function of the fabric weave and the fiber used in the rip stop. It will vary significantly depending upon the mill. In addition, because silicone penetrates into the woven fiber. It actually strengthens the fabric. Thus enhancing it's resistance to tear and allowing you to use a lighter fabric to achieve the same result. Polyurethane coating simply lies on top of the fabric and provide no structural support. All that said. There are some fabrics that are polyurethane coated on one side and silicone on the other. This allows the panels to be seam taped. The problem is that they are subject to mold, mildew and delamination. While the stretch is unfortunate and can be cause for a no go on purchase. The fact that it's not seam sealed shouldn't be. In our facilities, we hand seam seal thousands of tents each year for people. We also provide detailed instructions for how to perform this task both inexpensively and quickly.
I'm curious if a review of the Varusteleka tarp is on the radar. They are going for $160 to $190 USD. Not lightweight, but seem to going for the built like a tank market. Wonder how it compares to other tarps.
Earth shattering review of a product from a company we all know and love. I am certain they will address the issue and get back to you. Please let us know if they do. Strength and Honor, Luke!
The best ting that a tarp can give you is a shaded area and rain protected area just outSIDE of the tent. It can create a porch, if you will. Same thing the Arabs had on their tents thousands of years ago. You can bet they spent a lotta time up UNDER them... and not INSIDE that tent. Because the tent would have been just too damn HOT. Even today, that is what would make carrying THAT tarp with you worth its weight. Same as a camping chair. Inch by inch, day by day, year by year, your channel has grown, and your knowledge as well. You are now at the point of truly being a camping expert. You've seen the weight versus benefit problem of every piece of backpacking gear. I can't get my pack under 40 pounds-- because everything in it is NEEDED, and or WANTED. Yeah it is heavy, but at the end of the day I am well prepared, and well provisioned.
Personally, i dont own a Fjallraven tarp, and at those costs, i doubt i would either! While weight is precious, i have noticed when ever you go very (ultra) light this tends to be the result - stretching and leaking - you have to ask what is the point ! Thanks for the review Like , these are things everyone needs to know about.
@TheOutdoorGearReview, I’m impressed with my aqua quest safari XL. Saved my bacon last week at Acadia NP when I had to pull my truck tent off to drive around. Started raining when I got back so we decided to leave the tent on the ground. Driest, least muggy waterproof night so far, LOL!
I like all the fjallraven stuff I have but most of it is older when I think they were better quality. I have had really good experience with my D&D tarp.
I own the #8 Anorak, and the Barents Pro trousers as well as some fleeces, vests and shorts. I agree that some of their stuff is too expensive, but I will say this... Fjallraven gear, especially the pants, are a buy once, cry once item. I know people who are huge into bushcraft, climbing etc., and after 30-40 years are only in their 3rd or 4th pair...more so for sizing than being worn out. I have had the same pair of pants for eight years. The packs are solid too. I appreciate your channel, and agree on this tarp, but I won't stop buying Fjallraven based on one tarp review. Having said that, I agree with your comment on the possibility of Fjallraven gear losing quality, maybe because like a Yeti cooler, people (Yuppy Glampers) are buying the name despite there being better gear or gear that hasn't 'cheapened' due to increased production equaling a downfall in quality.
I loved Fjallraven stuff, I actually own a couple of tents and their pants. Never had this tarp though as I prefer Aqua Quest but it’s disappointing if Fjallraven has failed so dramatically. Now I question will my tents leak. I trust Luke’s opinion over any review as he has never lied or try to sell us any products. Time to test my tents again..
You mentioned you had three Fjallraven tents at home. I'm guessing you have a truck load of tents, tarps and gear. Maybe someday you can take a video tour of your stored gear. 😊
yo the minute i saw college girls on campus wearing the kanken backpack or w.e. was the moment i realized that fjall raven is longer for outdoors or quality products, they are now amazon hipster aesthetic
Thank you for keeping it real Luke. I use dd hamocks tarps, thay are great. The only Fjällräven products I own are clothes. I love them and they are superb. I will stay away from the tarps and wind sacks. 👍🏻
I recommend aqua quest their tarps from the lightweight to the heavy duty defenders are amazing and their warranty is even better. I purchased on Amazon and I had slight tearing of the stitching on the center tie out, and they replaced it. No questions asked. I’m glad they didn’t ask questions, because the tearing was absolutely my fault and not the fault of the tarp or manufacturer. Also they didn’t ask me to send in the one I broke and a little Shoe Goo later I have an extra tarp for what ever.
They have probably changed the thread for the seams etc. Probably to 100% Nylon from a natural or mixed fibre thread. If the thread doesn’t swell on contact with moisture, the needle holes will not be fully sealed, and then you get leaks. Also needle girth is critical. Possible they’re using thicker, stronger needles to avoid breakage and reduce costs, which will leave bigger holes which the thread does not swell enough to seal. I wonder if they’ve recently outsourced manufacture to China, like so many others.
Great example of some times you don't get what you pay for . Companies are going on the cheap but want the big bucks . Solution watch this channel 😁 Good job as all ways 👍
Appreciate your candor, Luke. Also appreciate the alternatives. Do you think that Fjallravan will respond? I have seen in some reviews where the companies have taken note of your reviews. All the best!
As a Swede, Fjällräven is more about style and trends nowadays, Hilleberg is still making quality goods if you want a tent from Sweden. They are expensive though.
I just took my ov tent out in a storm and it did not stretch as bad as you are saying , it rained for hours and I had some stretch but nothing like what you are saying.
I wonder how this material compares to the Sea to Summit Ultra-Sil poncho/tarp? Would love to see a review of that in both uses. Thanks for all you do!
This is a little overblown I’d say. I have two fjallraven tents and they’re great! Maybe the tarp was a defective product… I wouldn’t dismiss an entire company because of one bad experience.
Bought a Hyperlite Mountain Gear dyneema tarp... Costs $450 but was worth it. Dyneema is hydrophobic, means it doesn't absorb water...and it doesn't stretch at all. love it!
Excellent review as always and thank you for that. My question is whether there's a case here in respect of false or misleading advertising and the validity of this tarp being waterproof as stated?
I have a new Fjallraven tent (Abisko Lite 1) and so far it seems fine. It did come with seam sealant but I haven't yet used it, but I will do. It does stretch though - I have gone from the polyester Jack Wolfskin Gossamer 2 to this tent and the stretching is really there.
I made ten comments on the last storm video! Feeling the vibe, and diggin it! Why are the comments gone? I'm respectful! I think Luke should check his moderator! Does he really know, and trust him? ✊🤠👎💯
Why not mix silicon with white spirit and brush on the seams? You have to do it with Tarptent. I've done on leaky seams and it works. The white spirit wicks the silicone into the holes then evaporates and the silicon has filled the holes. As for stretch yes silnylon stretches when wet so have the poles short and then lengthen them to handle stretch and yes I think what's making it stretch a lot is the thinness of the material (what causes the lower weight). I guess something this large shouldn't have used this silnylon.
It’s disturbing how many companies we used to give so much praise. have fallen behind in quality. Thank you Luke. For giving us all the heads up.
*Fjallen behind in quality you mean
@@cb7677 lol
Or these companies were never the quality people make them out to be. Fjällräven is a casual, milquetoast outdoor brand, based in Sweden, where the climate overall is relatively mild. It works fine for that, but get the marketing department involved and suddenly people think it's some rugged outdoor brand because a few choice items are more durable than they're used to. You will never see Fjällräven or many other brands on actual expeditions, even though some pictures make some people think so.
Hi Luke! Hope you’re well and that you’re enjoying the outdoors, as always! We just came across your review on the Abisko Tarp and the windsack and we appreciate the transparent feedback. Our Field Test Coordinator has emailed you to get some more information on your experience and address your concerns directly - we obviously want to make this right. Hopefully hear from you soon! / The Fjällräven team
I don't understand his criticism of.the wind sack. He's treating it like a bivy when it's not..
@@oldgrunt5569damn😂😂😂
@@oldgrunt5569 Do you have proof that he lies? If not be careful or you might get a taste of your own medicine.
@@oldgrunt5569 That doesn't prove that he lies. That proves, at best, that his experience is different from yours. To prove a lie, you'd need to actually point to a misrepresentation of a fact and, furthermore, that this was an intentional misrepresentation (an attempt to deceive). I'm not sure you know what a lie is. When someone is wrong, it's not necessarily a lie. When someone hates your favorite product, it's not necessarily a lie.
@@oldgrunt5569 Forgot to take your medicine, grandpa?
The reviews and integrity found on this channel are without peer. Excellent, life saving / time saving / money saving information here.
Yep
Whenever I'm looking into New Gear I go to TOGR First 👍
Absolutely, Spot On! 👍
This guy is a gear head. He ABSOLUTELY speaks to help the uninformed from wasting time and money .
@@oldgrunt5569 Prove it. From what I can see, you're just a salty boy hating on someone. Grow up.
The MLA Handbook notes, “By convention, commas and periods that directly follow quotations go inside the closing quotation marks” (267).
Disappointed and surprised to hear it has performed so badly. I love Fjallraven products but won’t be going near this one. Thanks for the great and honest review.
I respect your honesty. That's why I love your channel. Thanks Luke
Thanks!
great review that the company should take notice of. We appreciate your time and thoughts on the products that can make our lives better and safer
Amen!
they won't take much notice. That is the ONE thing Luke over estimates. He is just one more dude on youtube rating gear. Companies won't make command decisions based on his opinion. He thinks they do, but they don't.
@@markthomas2436 Luke could provide a long list of companies that have contacted him after one of his review. Luke set a high bar when he was one of the first to call out MSR for their leaky tents.
@@markthomas2436jokes on you they email him, and did notice
Sil-sil products need to be seam sealed. It's just as simple as that.
You can't seam tape sil-sil, as current seam tapes won't adhere to silicone. Manufacturers don't want to seam seal, because it greatly extends the manufacturing time/complexity, as they need to leave it to cure before they can package it.
Most manufacturers who are using sil-sil materials simply state that you need to seam seal it yourself (or offer to seam seal for an extra charge). Sounds like Fjallraven didn't want to do that. Maybe they're positioning themselves more as a "lifestyle" product, assuming that their customers won't actually use their products in adverse weather.
Exactly. Sealseaming on SiNylon is a customer task.
For anyone looking for more recomendations. I can absolutelly recommend the DD hammocks 3x3m tarp as well. Might not be the lightest and it doesn't pack so small, but it's relatively cheap (I think I got it for around 60USD) and it's great quality for the money.
I like the cammo one,very good tarp.
They also have Superlight variant that stretch much like this Abisko, but without the leaking.
I've got 2 DD tarps. Good stuff.
@@rarous
I have the solo superlight and not noticed too much stretching.
I have the camo version, have used it many times
Thank you for calling them out. They sell their souls for money by cutting corners for cheaper manufacturing and higher profit margins -- all while charging the customer the same or more for an inferior product. On a side note, I bought a Teton Mountain Ultra 1 person tent and put out through the ringer over the last 2 weeks. Lots of rain, 30mph sustained winds, and not a single drop got in the tent. I was impressed! Thank you for always testing these things for us and letting us make informed purchases!
I have several pairs of Fjällräven trousers. Always loved them, but the newest pair I have is not built to the same standard as my older pairs. I guess they've gone the same way as a number of other historic outdoor brands...started chasing the "high street fashion" market to boost sales and lost sight of their core market.
Being from rhe UK, one if the things I love about my older Fjällräven trousers is that the right hand thigh pocket takes a standard UK Ordnance Survey map and closes fully. My newest pair takes the map but doesn't quite close. Looks as if they've shaved half a cm (1/4 inch) off the pocket length!
Luke thank you for your videos and for your integrity. I've never seen a tarp stretch to the degree that this one does. I concur with your analysis. A shift has taken place in the manufacturing process with the manufacturer that suddenly has seriously compromised the quality of their product. My sincerest wish is that they see this video and take it to heart making the necessary changes needed to bring them back to previous quality levels.
I bought a tarp from AMOK. They claim the same, it's waterproof but, they still include a tube of seam sealant just in case you'd prefer to seal it. I love the tarp. I sealed it and it's been wonderful. The batwing shape seams to help the tarp in wind and staying taught. It also is available in a cool camo.
Awesome, logical review. I will stick with my USMC field tarp. It may weigh more and is bulkier but is bulletproof and cost less then $40.
Luke, there is so much outdoor gear that is very overpriced and no huge advantage offered. Can you test and review some cheap alternatives? We were discussing using painters poles in place of Elephant poles……ideas like that. A lot of us use gear that has been re-purposed for camping. You did tests of the cheapest tents…..would love to see an extension of that concept.
I can support that issue with Fjallraven. I bought a Abisko View 2 Tent last year as a (very pricy) follow up to many impressive Fjallraven product that I had in the past. I abolutely love the tent as a general concept. As obvious by the name, the tent is constructed similar to the Tarp and it has the same issues. Very fitting for a swedish company, my tent failed me during a heavy rain while camping in sweden. Nothing monsune like, just heavy rain which it should easily survive. I will give it another try after seamsealing everything myself, but this is absolutely unexceptable for a tent in that price category.
As there is a very positiv review for that tent (earlier fabrication date) on the TOGR channel as well, I would recommend to add a disclaimer,
Purchased the Aquaquest safari 15x15 after watching your reviews and it has performed exceptional to provide shelter in high heat and high wind areas we have gone camping in recently.
Same with me, Aquaquest hasn't let me down at all
I like that Luke is not BS around. Within the first sentence or so, the tent is not worth it, bam. I still watch the entire video.
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Would silicone seam sealant fix the issue?
That price tag is insane when a tarp with a similar weight and size is available from Paria, but that's only 1/3 the price. I also have a Kammock tarp which is similar, but a bit lighter.
Hello from Indiana USA and this 62 year old lady 😌. Love your videos 😊😍. Hello to you and your wife 👋💖. Great presentation of the information 😄. Thanks for sharing this with me.
Thanks Luke, for taking your time, effort & Equipment to provide this agenda free review.
I've read all the comments up to this point.
I agree with many that said nice things about DD Tarps & AquaQuest Tarps.
I've often wondered how long guyout lines should be on my AquaQuest. I've just finished creating sufficient number of 10' long guyout lines that are with the tarp & stakes in its storage sack.
Warm Regards from Reno, Nevada.
Don't use dyneema on your guylines. It doesn't stretch so the tarp has to take all the stresses of wind and rain. If you use something like paracord, it's elastic and much gentler on the tarp.
Fjallraven have been making overpriced products for years based on the back of their Kanken bag and Ray Mears' name. I'm glad they're finally being outed.
I have plenty of great things from Fjallraven. Never heard of Ray Mears. Have zero interest in the Kanken.
In my experience, their jackets, pants and basic backpacks are great. Everything else is expensive just because of the logo and I'd never consider buying them.
@@aus87185+1
Keb Jacket & Pants are amazing for hiking in every weather. Also Keb72 backpack is excellent
@@aus87185- even their clothing is so overpriced compared to the quality, it's not even worth looking at anymore. At least not in Europe. Unfortunately there's too much of a focus on making money and not making great products. It's a shame (and yeah, I have 6 pairs of pants, 3 shorts and a couple of jackets). And I have to admit, that the craftsmanship quality is not what I would expect, given the price tag.
The G-1000 material is still comfortable to wear, but the durability of the products is definitely not impressive by any means. I hardly any know other die hard outdoor freaks that even look towards Fjällräven for new gear - and the brand used to be the go to standard...
@@christianrahbek4186 honestly if you have that many of their outdoor products and you've found their durability to be terrible, I'd love to know what you're doing in them. Genuinely.
I've spent countless hours hiking in mine in all kinds of conditions. 13hr day hikes, scrambling on sharp rock, slipping on ice and in snow, snow shoeing etc etc. You could still put them back on the shelf and nobody would know the difference. Pants and jackets both look flawless. Not so much as a stray thread.
In my experience, their actual outdoor gear is worth the higher price tag. Their streetwear though (t shirts, caps etc) are aimed at the fanboys who just want to rep the brand. I agree those are overpriced and it's why I don't own any.
I'm no expert but, from my experience and logic I'm thinking that stretch in lines means the wind jerks the tarp around more causing considerable stress on the tie off points. It seems stretch would not be wanted in the lines.
THX for the heads up ! I need a new tent for this years adventure and was looking at fjällräven tents......after this no thanks ! Need to find another brand. Thanks for the review
Because of you reviews, I have a 10' x10' Aquaquest Defender and a 15' x' 15' too. For car camping, these work well and I don't have to mind the weight. If I was still able to backpack, weight would be a major factor and I would probably had considered getting this reviewed tarp, for the small pack size and lower weight. Even that stretch factor would be a hard sell, but with the amount of leaking around the stitching, I would have avoided this.
Thanks for your review and I hope people consider this before buying.
I got the Hilleberg Namjat tent (and a polyester Hilleberg tarp), it's made from a similar nylon to what Fjällraven uses. The tent absolutely is waterproof, it just rocks in all conditions, I put in waay over a thousand nights in it and I love it...but man does that material stretch:-). You get the hang of it after a while and it just becomes second nature to adjust it betwwen it's max and min stretch cycle, that said it always goes back to normal (unlike my HennessyHammocks tarp, which stretches and has just stayed stretched ever since). It's a tiny hassle and I had forgotten it was a downside until you just mentioned it now. You're complaining of the price over there in the States, the European price is even more oouch:-D.
Great review as always mate.
I know hes a small cottage business, but im really so surprised that no one in these tarp videos ever mentions Cooke Custom Sewing. Dan Cooke's products are fantastic and total staples for trips here in canoe country.
The local canoe shop Rutabaga sells Cooke Custom Sewing tarps. I have heard very good things about them, but have no experience yet. I just looked at their Easton tarp poles last week and they seemed very reasonably priced
He’s not a cottage industry guy, he’s an Amazon/cheapest product channel. He peddles One Tigris and similar low end product/ affordable but not longevity gear.
Garage Grown Gear has great resources for what you are taking about and I agree.
Yes Fjallraven is premium and people say that there are cheaper alternatives, ok cool. I’ve had this tarp for two years and was surprised they didn’t seam seal it. However it took me twenty minutes and has held up without a flaw.
@@MillimeterMech What are you talking about cuz it isn't CCS.
Thank you for that informative review. My 2nd tarp was a 10 x 10 silnylon, loved it, and then I started researching other materials, first cuben fiber, too expensive, then 10 x 12 silpoly, and for now, it is the way to go, went from 3.5lbs to 1.5lbs. All home made in the USA!
Thanks for the great review Luke. I am looking for a tarp to extend my truck tent so I can step out into the shelter of my kitchen area but an leery about pulling the trigger. Good to learn which ones to stay away from and which ones are in the running for my money. One Tigris may be the way I go.
Stay safe and God bless.
I have the 4X4 meter
DD TARP...Absolutely love it....been in down pours in Germany and Norway...not one leak or problems....I keep it in my auto along with other emergency equipment....
their stuff is just insanely overpriced
Yuppie hiking
Indeed
In fairness they do make some good kit! DD tarps brilliant.
Yeah, and even their pants and stuff lost quality over the last couple of years. Just expensive and a fancy name, that's it nowadays. They supposed to make good stuff, but those times are gone.
@@Thedagda801 DD is not Fjallräven... but they make the best tarps. from cheap polyester, btw.
Love that you keep it real. I would not buy it. I did like that it was light but not if its going to leak and sag
I bought a generic polyester(i believe) tarp a few yrs ago, i set it up and sprayed with a hose to see where it needed silicone spray. I sprayed those spots heavily and then gave the whole tarp a once over, its protected me from several SEVERE monsoon storms since then. 10×12 $35
gold armor(brand) the only thing is I wouldn't buy it today unless I had no choice because although its not 100% possible im attempting a Chinese boycott lol its not easy but damn, im trying
Thanks! What do you think about Decathlon solognac bushcraft tarp?
Luke, I really appreciate your reviews and watch almost all of them ongoing. Two points of confusion with this one though. You say the lines are 6 feet long but then they would hardly reach the ground straight down from your poles. I believe you mean 6 meters which would be 18 ft. You prefer them 9 feet which could mean 9 meters or 27 feet. Second, you mention using that tarp 3 years ago. How do we know if the company didn't fix these issues since you purchased it? How do we know the leaking or stretch wasn't a temporary batch/lot issue for only some of those tarps a few years back?
Hi Luke I have just purchased a Fjällräven dome 2 Keb tent. I have not used yet about to winter camp on Dartmoor! Wish I had your info earlier. Look forward to your reviews. Steve
As with all Sil/Sil products of all manufacturers, it is best to seam seal it. It's a 10 minute job and a child can do it...
What are you using for your poles?
Your service is truly appreciated!
Wow! That is a big letdown. I agree that Aqua Quest makes incredible tarps. I've used an AQ Safari 10X10 For years from stealth camping to camping in my van as an awning. I've experienced zero issues with rain or wind. Before downsizing to live the van life, I had a dozen different tarps including military surplus tarps. The Safari was the only tarp I kept.
Thanks for the review. I was going to buy this however I’ve opted for a British army basher. I’ve used them for years and can’t pick any faults other than their weight. I’ve also just bought an abisko lite 3, first outing was in very heavy rain and I can confirm it is very waterproof.
Excellent review. 👍
Luke, have you ever heard of DD Hammocks tarps? 190 T Polyester, PU treated 3000 mm waterproof coating... You are Honest, I like your reviews. Keep on the way!
Based upon this young man's recommendation; A couple years ago I purchased the Aqua Quest Defender Tarp - 100% Waterproof Heavy Duty Nylon Bushcraft Survival Shelter - 13 x 10 ft Camo Kit for about $130. (Now they're around $150) It's a heavier tarp at 4.2 pounds but it's just what I needed for my particular needs/conditions. (heavy rain and snow} I've not had any problems at all with it. 🌧🌨🌩❄🤪
I'm in fond of military kind of overbuild. The description gives my mind chubs
Aquaquest defender would probably survive a hailstorm. Excellent products.
@@asmith7876 I agree. And if you are going to depend on a tarp for your shelter, that is, to protect your life, a couple extra pounds is not a big deal.
Thank you. I have their pants and am very happy. Sometimes the cheap product works better. Maybe that they are manufacturing some where new?
Way to go on the recommendation on the guy line length. Where I go in Colorado, I don’t even carry stakes because at that length there’s always trees or logs to tie off to.
isn't it normal to have to seam seal *silicone* tents and tarps?
It is. A bit strange a “gear review expert” never even mentions this in the review. It’s common knowledge among hammock campers and backpackers.
@@leecasteen yeah it is strange :/. I would of expected him to know better. I have a number of sil tents and gear from different manufacturers, all of it needed sil seam sealing for that extra bit of protection in the British weather
Thanks for the video and for sharing your thoughts and experience with us and thank you for the heads up on this product.
Thanks, Luke. Again, you have proven why you are hands down the best gear reviewer on youtube. I would really like you to review Some of the Mystery Ranch Bridger series packs. Cheers!
I was thinking about this tarp purely because I believed the brand was the Gucci of the outdoors. Looks like I will be going for the DD super lite 3x3 then. 👍🏼
Think that Wild Beare's version ripped apart in strong winds. Then again, she did use rocks to hold it down.
I’ve got a DD tarp (had it a couple of years now). Been used in all weathers/conditions, highly recommend!
DD make great tarps,
@@leonatkins3957 I do have the 4x4 DD but that’s just a monster tarp. The super lite 3x3 is lovely. (Expensive too) but I thought the fjalraven was just in another league. It’s van for my hammock I’ve got a lovely tarp with doors by napsack because I only use the hammock in winter. I want to be out in summer too. Atleast I know DD isn’t perfect but it’s waterproof! The bare minimum you’d expect from a tarp 😂
@@scotbotvideos yeah I did see that one. Claire’s lucky it didn’t pull the rock onto her. It was a cool pitch and a cool story tho.
Did you reach out to them? This is fantastic feedback that their product managers and engineers need to see.
I like DD as a brand personally. Got a 3x3 meter tarp that I love.
I've had my 3x3 DD tarp from DD Hammocks since 2020. It has held up fantastic and was only $75.
DD Hammocks tarps are the best in the business, and they are very affordable...
As someone who's designed tarps and tents for over two decades. Many of which have won national and international awards and copied by competitors. I'll have this to say about silicone coated nylon tarps, or shelters made with any silicone coated fabrics. To ensure a waterproof seam, they need to be hand seam sealed. Standard seam tape does not stick to silicone. There is no factory applied seam sealing for these kind of shelters. And we deal with factories around the globe.
The advantage to silicone is that once sealed, it's sealed for life. Nor will it mold or mildew. Polyurethane coating will mold, mildew and in continued wet conditions, delaminate. The stretching is a function of the fabric weave and the fiber used in the rip stop. It will vary significantly depending upon the mill. In addition, because silicone penetrates into the woven fiber. It actually strengthens the fabric. Thus enhancing it's resistance to tear and allowing you to use a lighter fabric to achieve the same result. Polyurethane coating simply lies on top of the fabric and provide no structural support.
All that said. There are some fabrics that are polyurethane coated on one side and silicone on the other. This allows the panels to be seam taped. The problem is that they are subject to mold, mildew and delamination.
While the stretch is unfortunate and can be cause for a no go on purchase. The fact that it's not seam sealed shouldn't be. In our facilities, we hand seam seal thousands of tents each year for people. We also provide detailed instructions for how to perform this task both inexpensively and quickly.
I'm curious if a review of the Varusteleka tarp is on the radar. They are going for $160 to $190 USD. Not lightweight, but seem to going for the built like a tank market. Wonder how it compares to other tarps.
Could go to harbor freight n get several tarps for that price n maybe last a couple years n save you a lot of money
Earth shattering review of a product from a company we all know and love. I am certain they will address the issue and get back to you. Please let us know if they do. Strength and Honor, Luke!
Was wondering if you could add some type of small Bungie cord tied to the paracord to keep from readjusting from sagging.
The best ting that a tarp can give you is a shaded area and rain protected area just outSIDE of the tent. It can create a porch, if you will. Same thing the Arabs had on their tents thousands of years ago. You can bet they spent a lotta time up UNDER them... and not INSIDE that tent. Because the tent would have been just too damn HOT. Even today, that is what would make carrying THAT tarp with you worth its weight. Same as a camping chair. Inch by inch, day by day, year by year, your channel has grown, and your knowledge as well. You are now at the point of truly being a camping expert. You've seen the weight versus benefit problem of every piece of backpacking gear. I can't get my pack under 40 pounds-- because everything in it is NEEDED, and or WANTED. Yeah it is heavy, but at the end of the day I am well prepared, and well provisioned.
Personally, i dont own a Fjallraven tarp, and at those costs, i doubt i would either! While weight is precious, i have noticed when ever you go very (ultra) light this tends to be the result - stretching and leaking - you have to ask what is the point ! Thanks for the review Like , these are things everyone needs to know about.
@TheOutdoorGearReview, I’m impressed with my aqua quest safari XL. Saved my bacon last week at Acadia NP when I had to pull my truck tent off to drive around. Started raining when I got back so we decided to leave the tent on the ground. Driest, least muggy waterproof night so far, LOL!
I like all the fjallraven stuff I have but most of it is older when I think they were better quality. I have had really good experience with my D&D tarp.
I own the #8 Anorak, and the Barents Pro trousers as well as some fleeces, vests and shorts. I agree that some of their stuff is too expensive, but I will say this...
Fjallraven gear, especially the pants, are a buy once, cry once item. I know people who are huge into bushcraft, climbing etc., and after 30-40 years are only in their 3rd or 4th pair...more so for sizing than being worn out. I have had the same pair of pants for eight years. The packs are solid too.
I appreciate your channel, and agree on this tarp, but I won't stop buying Fjallraven based on one tarp review. Having said that, I agree with your comment on the possibility of Fjallraven gear losing quality, maybe because like a Yeti cooler, people (Yuppy Glampers) are buying the name despite there being better gear or gear that hasn't 'cheapened' due to increased production equaling a downfall in quality.
"DD HAMMOCKS" is the best tarp value out there. I'm amazed Luke didn't mention them.
I loved Fjallraven stuff, I actually own a couple of tents and their pants. Never had this tarp though as I prefer Aqua Quest but it’s disappointing if Fjallraven has failed so dramatically. Now I question will my tents leak. I trust Luke’s opinion over any review as he has never lied or try to sell us any products. Time to test my tents again..
You mentioned you had three Fjallraven tents at home. I'm guessing you have a truck load of tents, tarps and gear. Maybe someday you can take a video tour of your stored gear. 😊
It's gotta be a massive stockpile of gear lol
Thanks for the video and the review. Have you reviewed DD Hammocks? Thanks
Thanks for you outstanding reviews.
yo the minute i saw college girls on campus wearing the kanken backpack or w.e. was the moment i realized that fjall raven is longer for outdoors or quality products, they are now amazon hipster aesthetic
@fou201 they was even wearing the PANTS man. THE FUGGN PANTS that joe robinet wears
Thank you for keeping it real Luke. I use dd hamocks tarps, thay are great. The only Fjällräven products I own are clothes. I love them and they are superb. I will stay away from the tarps and wind sacks. 👍🏻
I recommend aqua quest their tarps from the lightweight to the heavy duty defenders are amazing and their warranty is even better. I purchased on Amazon and I had slight tearing of the stitching on the center tie out, and they replaced it. No questions asked. I’m glad they didn’t ask questions, because the tearing was absolutely my fault and not the fault of the tarp or manufacturer. Also they didn’t ask me to send in the one I broke and a little Shoe Goo later I have an extra tarp for what ever.
OMG Ray will be annoyed! LOL Seriously I am surprised and disappointed at Fjallraven. I value your views and opinions Thanks for sharing
They have probably changed the thread for the seams etc. Probably to 100% Nylon from a natural or mixed fibre thread. If the thread doesn’t swell on contact with moisture, the needle holes will not be fully sealed, and then you get leaks. Also needle girth is critical. Possible they’re using thicker, stronger needles to avoid breakage and reduce costs, which will leave bigger holes which the thread does not swell enough to seal.
I wonder if they’ve recently outsourced manufacture to China, like so many others.
Try out a DD superlight. Cheap, light and does the job perfectly. I've been using one for years, zero issues.
Great example of some times you don't get what you pay for .
Companies are going on the cheap but want the big bucks .
Solution watch this channel 😁
Good job as all ways 👍
Good evening from Syracuse NY brother and thank you for sharing your adventures and your equipment and the facts and truth
did you already test the ddhammock 3x3 tarp?
Thank you, Luke for your honesty
Appreciate your candor, Luke. Also appreciate the alternatives. Do you think that Fjallravan will respond? I have seen in some reviews where the companies have taken note of your reviews. All the best!
hi, can you make a recommendation of what tarps are really good to use. waterproof windproof good for a shelter. at least 10 by 12 ft.
Thanks for the warning about FjallRaven!
As a Swede, Fjällräven is more about style and trends nowadays, Hilleberg is still making quality goods if you want a tent from Sweden. They are expensive though.
Im wondering if they are using a contract manufacturer over seas?
I just took my ov tent out in a storm and it did not stretch as bad as you are saying , it rained for hours and I had some stretch but nothing like what you are saying.
I wonder how this material compares to the Sea to Summit Ultra-Sil poncho/tarp? Would love to see a review of that in both uses. Thanks for all you do!
This is a little overblown I’d say. I have two fjallraven tents and they’re great! Maybe the tarp was a defective product… I wouldn’t dismiss an entire company because of one bad experience.
how well does it hold up to Hail and Heavy Winds? Does is hold up or Rip at the seams?
And will it hold up to falling sharp sticks from trees?
Agree hope they fix it 👍
Bought a Hyperlite Mountain Gear dyneema tarp...
Costs $450 but was worth it.
Dyneema is hydrophobic, means it doesn't absorb water...and it doesn't stretch at all.
love it!
Excellent review as always and thank you for that. My question is whether there's a case here in respect of false or misleading advertising and the validity of this tarp being waterproof as stated?
Hi Luke thank you for your videos and I ❤❤your honest reviews. Please keep your videos coming Linda in Alberta Canada ❤❤
I have a new Fjallraven tent (Abisko Lite 1) and so far it seems fine. It did come with seam sealant but I haven't yet used it, but I will do. It does stretch though - I have gone from the polyester Jack Wolfskin Gossamer 2 to this tent and the stretching is really there.
I made ten comments on the last storm video! Feeling the vibe, and diggin it! Why are the comments gone? I'm respectful! I think Luke should check his moderator! Does he really know, and trust him? ✊🤠👎💯
When something like that "stretches" does it stay stretched out even afterwards or does it try to return to its original shape?
Whats the price is it silk and gold
Maybe the stretch in the fabric is what creates gaps where the stitching is.
Why not mix silicon with white spirit and brush on the seams? You have to do it with Tarptent. I've done on leaky seams and it works. The white spirit wicks the silicone into the holes then evaporates and the silicon has filled the holes. As for stretch yes silnylon stretches when wet so have the poles short and then lengthen them to handle stretch and yes I think what's making it stretch a lot is the thinness of the material (what causes the lower weight). I guess something this large shouldn't have used this silnylon.
WOW, man... **thanks** for this! Much apreciated! 👍
So I looked this up on Amazon and it literally says not water resistant in the description🤣