So as promised at the end of the 2XKO Alpha Lab / Beta Journey, here we are with some final thoughts about the game. Its no surprise I like the game overall, but there's lots of room to improve a lot of quality of life stuff and im not just talking about like bugfixes or something akin to that. So this vid is a big jumble of a lot of thoughts I have about the game and its all in the vid(so watch it!) but basically, the foundation of the game is solid. There's stuff to work with here and I think they will get where it needs to be. I have one set of thoughts among many and riot has been very accepting and receptive of ideas and criticisms so hopefully they take it all in and make this the game it needs to be. So my thoughts are all in the video so give a watch, like if ya liked it, and let me know what you thought about 2xko in the comments below!
I am not sure who you got a chance to duo with, I saw Sajam and jmcrofts pair up and they terrorized a lobby. Like you and either of those dudes would be a menace. Would definitely watch that for sure!
Duos are the most unique thing brought to fighting games in a long time. It may not be optimal, it may be harder to set up for the average person, but there has been nothing even CLOSE to the fun I've had teaming up with my friends, setting up alley oops, cheering each other on, thinking about cool setups... Plus there's so much room for interesting narratives as top players develop cool tech, play with other teams, swap characters, etc. I REALLY hope that teams get official tourney support because in my mind, that's 100% where the truly unique X-factor of this game lies. Singles is much easier to do the high tech, ridiculous execution stuff, but duos is where the hype is.
Yeah, I was caught completely off guard by how much fun the duo mode is. I was 100% expecting to have the same reception toward it that Roof did, but I ended up loving it. Landing the sick combo extensions and setting up the real grimy stuff as a duo was just so damn satisfying
The famous wombo combo video came from a Smash doubles match and it was one of the most insanely coordinated team plays I’ve ever seen. Shame that co op team fighters are so rare because the concept is so much fun in execution
I definitely hope duo tournaments become a thing. The duo concept has been fun to me since way back in the Marvel vs Capcom 4 player option on the port for the Sega dreamcast. I still remember being in a vacation house with friends and picking up a copy of DOA 4 for the Xbox 360. I was the only one of maybe 8 people who had even played a DOA game before. The 2v2 matches were sooo hype! Even casually, duo mode definitely delivers a lot of fun.
@@thegoat9219 I completely agree. I had so much fun playing, but I realized I was in a discord call on a 2xko server and didn't realize that that feature wasn't even in the game. There should definitely be voice chat in the game that you can opt in or out of or at least if you had a toxic teammate just be able to mute them. But yeah voice chat is mandatory for team play for sure dude
Ahri is strong but shes also so simple compared to the rest of the cast. I would prefer if she was complicated as Echo. As she is now all you need is the fireball and all her mobility isnt needed. Working angles with her other special was so much more fun because you needed to use mobility and could try to bait out anti-airs. Feel like this game can't afford to be simpler than Darius. Also big agree on wanting to just get into a match and stay in matchmaking. Hate being kicked off the arcade and having to restart matchmaking
She actually was more complex before, but not in a terribly fun way. Fox fire was like ammunition and you had to reload like demo sonya in MKX. Maybe she could change up again but I prefer the current version to busy body having to reload stuff.
Funnily enough my main rival in my friend group paired with me for the alpha and our synergy was great! We barely had to communicate while playing and that was such a unique experience for me personally
Also this is probably gonna be a busy day for the channel, Gamescom Opening Night live is in a few hours (2pm EST my time) and we can very likely expect a Terry Bogard SF6 trailer, and maybe some Fatal Fury stuff too! I will stream along on the rooflemonger twitch like half~ an hour before it goes live or so so tune in to that maybe? Whatever gets announced and shown fighting game wise will get its own vid today so stay tuned and keep on watching!
Glad this game is doing Alpha and then Beta before launch. The 2v2 aspect of it I loved ! Played the alpha with a friend and had a blast! I played Illaoi and the process of learning the character/ getting the most of situations was very rewarding. Can't wait for improvements and a full launch 🙌🏻
Probably the biggest issue I had was that they didn't include 3 of the games primary defensive mechanics in the tutorial. I did not know about them until Sajam put a vid out on them, but my impressions of the game was souring up until I watched it the night the alpha ended (yes, I know that they were in the movelist menu, but I think its fair for a tutorial to cover universal mechanics like them for such a limited play environment) I still don't know if I like how the game treats interactions and exchanges, but I was more positive on that aspect after learning of the retreating block, push block, and parry mechanics I don't mind the long combos, but I don't like how the only option to deal with them is a VERY stringent burst gauge The games basic tools like jabs and dashes are more committed than they would appear. The amount of times I tried to get in and meaty or apply pressure, only to have my opponent stuff me out of my dash recovery was insane. I realize its intentional and they want you to use assist to apply pressure, but it just feels awkward in a way thats just not intuitive with how the rest of the game plays imo I liked it, I had fun, could feel the Riot polish, but I get the feeling that the devs might want to make a different game than what I want 2XKO to be
Playing duos was one of the most fun times I've had in fighting games for years. BUT yea 100% you have to do it with a friend over voice chat so you can call out assist, burst or tag, and lab sequences in advance etc. I Couldn't imagine doing it with just a rando found in matchmaking or something. But just beating up on fools with the homie on voice chat, talking shit and getting hype is just the most amazing feeling and I cant believe it took this long for a fighting game to do this (I was really praying MVCI would have this but yea) Yea SFxT and MK9 had tag modes, but they were just that, play 1v1, tag in the homie and they play 1v1, at best you got some extended combos from tagging but that was it. Having to coördinate tagging, burst and assists makes it so much more of an engaging experience, at least for me it did.
I'm pretty sure all the people who were praising duos were actually playing with a friend over discord. So I would definitely recommend giving that a try next time we get to play the game!
Oh man, I love win quotes! I remember the 1st time giggling when Spider-man said this only in mirror matches in Marvel Super Heroes “Just what I need...another clone!” What made this funny he said this during the whole "Clone Saga" arc in the comics. Also I love the UMVC3's personal intro & win quotes against specific characters like with Spidery winning against Ghost Rider is just hilarious.
I think giving each player half a meter would work, by the time you get pushed to a corner and need it, it should be built to 1 by then. Also I think parry should be available if you have only half a bar. But normally takes 1 if you have it
Glad someone else pointed out that it ain't just Ahri and Yasuo who get long in the tooth combos, yes they are suspect A and B respectively but just cause Braum doesn't do fast multi hits doesn't mean ya might as well make a sandwich while he combos ya since each hit has long attack times during them I think Ahri's just the most visible and that it generally always starts from neutral S1 and thus is very linear. Pretty happy with the Alpha state but yeah while I want them to address the general critiques I do wonder how they will handle the balance in response whether they do compensating buffs and nerfs or shotgun em NRS style (really hope its not the latter.) Take Ahri for example, yes fixing the damage scale bug is a big priority but I worry if they nerf combos or the assist itself that can severely limit her viability since she's gonna be on the lower end of HP for the final roster and while she does have projectiles they aren't faster than some of the longer reaching attacks so I hope they are careful in how they tune her and I also hope they can vary up her neutral options so that you aren't always just fishing for S1 and/or Mediums (namely I want Foxfire Dash to be a more enticing neutral option since as is its too unsafe with the only practical use I found as a dive kick in that situation.) Otherwise I had a lot of fun learning this game and look forward to see what they modify and add in the final release as this is still my potential golden goose of a fighting game right now since Ahri and Yasuo are 2 of my favorite characters period and being able to explore them in a fighting game system has been as fun as I hoped it would be (if it weren't for the limited time I'd try more team comps) so here's hoping they can keep improving the final product
I totally agree that 2x assist should be 6 seconds like freestyle. That's insane that it's still 2. I love freestyle, I've been using it with Illaoi Braum, you can throw out Braum's forward assist, tag him in, double special 2 to get the ice, then tag back in and do whatever you want with Illaoi, and that's an easy way to get corner with a tentacle and the buff for Braum. It's neat! But is it anywhere near as rewarding as double assist on a better team? No, barely anything is better than 2x assist Ahri... So please, give them the 6 seconds. It's not fair that my fun and cool combos put me in assist jail and the super easy spammy ones are free as the wind.
The idea that casuals/non fighting game players want simply inputs is built on a completely false foundation. Casuals want 4 major things. 1. New Shiny graphics 2. large roster 3 overblown single player content 4 existing popular IP
I am over the moon for duos for the simple reason that it will get my friends to play and possibly even my partner. My friends don't want to grind to learn the motion controls of regular fighting games (which i find very understandable) and they also do not appreciate me clapping them over and over when we play. This will be the perfect introductory game for them. Pulse will let them auto combo until they figure that out and they can play with me, instead of against me, which means that they'll probably get to win a few instead of getting dumpstered over and over (which is a big deterrent to people getting into the fgc)
Totally agree with your point regarding combo length - I've heard arguments like "It's a versus game, so combos will be long." and I couldn't wrap my head around that. It's not like there's any law (that I know of) dictating having long-ass combos in versus games, and I hope the people from Riot will address that and dare to go in a different, albeit less traditional direction.
As a filthy casual who has to wait for my turn to play while I'm in these long combos, I can definitely say that the combos in my opinion are not too long. I played against some pretty high level people that had very optimal combos and I played pulse probably 85% of the game with the time that I had And I still had a blast. If anything, it just put a lot of weight on whether or not you respect someone or if you're going to do something risky again, someone who knows how to play and whenever I pulled stuff off against those people with my very tiny limited knowledge it felt really good It would be boring to play and watch people do the same short combos.
I agree with Illaoi needing another way to put a tentacle on the screen that doesn’t require touching the opponent. It would also extend her range and threat level. Was also thinking how would it be if they gave the tentacle health similar to Jack-O’s houses or just keep it how it is?
The intro thing no doubt comes from when people would let their own intro play out, but immediately cancel the opponent's. Agreed that you should be able to skip your own at least.
It's weird cause I think illaoi has the worst range by far, but she definitely has the best long range whiff punish. Like special1 is such a good long range punish tool.
The first combo he showed was legit 10 seconds long... I pray riot don't listen to this silly criticism. Only part I agree with is lvl 2 supers are to long.(I'm scared of a kid Goku situation again)
I don't think the long combos themselves are the problem, its how "Easy" or autopilot they look while its going on or how easy they are to randomly land of multiple stray hits. If there were only certain routes and situations that allowed for the same combos they would be fine. On top of that real audio rhythm to go along with it, people kinda sleep on how much of a factor this plays but imagine MvC2 and the iron man infinite without a gunt/voice effect for each swing he does and just the 1st and last hit... It's far less enjoyable and tolerable. Same with Magneto's rom infinite and every single loop or infinite in the game. I highly suggest every normal swing and air dash for every character has a attack grunt it'll do wonders for the game.
Never thought of the audio rhythm before but that’s a great point. Like the combos in UNI are pretty long, but it doesn’t feel that way when you’re in the game because the characters constantly have voice lines after every move. Seth’s combos don’t just look cool, they sound cool and that’s the same for all the other characters. This feels like something that anime fighters tend to nail in my experience
I think combo length is fine. It’s the nature of tag fighters. A lot of the combos, especially when expending resources, can get long and some of the extreme examples should be toned down. But basic bnbs feel fine in my opinion. I find the combos rewarding. I don’t want combos to be just a few hits long and not feeling as rewarding
On defense, imo the most important mechanic is parry, which also needs a bar to activate in the first place. Really good call on starting with a bar or changing something around at round start!
Illaoi S2 whiffing on little block strings hurts the soul. I enjoyed playing her and stuck with her through most of the Lab but I hope she gets some love
I don't think they need motion inputs at all. Tekken has many, many more moves, even without counting the strings, and just 4 buttons. They need to make better use of diagonals and multiple presses for special moves, that is all.
1) Regarding combos and their length, I personally don't mind the idea of long combos but I've also been desensitized to them. I totally get it if devs decide to reel it in a little, but I'm hoping they don't go overboard. As is the main issue with the longer combos is that there's a lot of looped sequences in them which makes it stale faster. Ahri is of course the biggest offender, and Braum also has this problem as there's a lot of "your flavor of H button -> hold S2" sequences in his stuff. Yasuo has long combos too, but he does it correctly imo. I think Yasuo's fine on the long combo aspect because he actually has VARIETY in his combo routes. He's a very freeflow character when you get the hang of his stance attacks and that opens up so many branches in his combo tree. You might see 2 or possibly 3 combo routes depending on what the other available characters want, but Yasuo can extend off so much more which means you can see 3-4x as many combo paths from him. His combos may be lengthy when optimal, but the extra variety helps him feel way less stale, and I think his current implementation is something they should look at when considering combos for other characters. 2) With the current fuse system, I'm indifferent on it. I like the idea of it, but implementation needs work. Pulse might be the "beginner" fuse but in a duo where players have different skill levels/preferences, it serves as a handicap to the player who doesn't need it. Double down/DHC is also just such a staple in tag fighters now that putting it as a fuse just feels off. Plus with how each works, there's really not anything stopping a player from being able to use all at once other than devs realizing their "beginner friendly" game would be the average tag fighter if all could be active at the same time. I won't speak on potential future changes to fuses, but I do think that they should consider giving one fuse per character in a future testing session. This way your beginenr friend can keep autocombos but you can make use of double down/fury/etc if you'd like. It could also add extra strategy to make use of other character strengths if a fuse applies to one character but not another. One character being able to call 2x assist while the other can start a DHC and it not working the other way around could make for more interesting decision making that way. Plus, this would allow those who don't mind having something like freestyle for both characters to still play that way if they want, but now there's more opportunity to experiment with synergy, or you and your duo can play to more of their own strengths.
Ahri combos feel too long cause they're kind of boring loops. But every combo in this game seems to take you to the corner. Doesn't seem to matter how big the stage is or which character you are, every hit is taking you to the corner. I agree with starting with a single meter, since parry and pushblock are gated behind them, but they shouldn't be free.
It is a truly unique and great concept. If you have a friend playing it. If not, its fraking not gonna work. And most regions of the world do not have a scene. Also, fck Illaoi. And Ahri. And Yasu. And Darius for sure.
I had a lot of fun with the alpha. The 1st couple days was a little rough but after that hot fix for the latency issue it ran way better. I do think the burst mechanic should be adjusted to build a bit slower. Some games me or my opponent would be able to use it twice I feel like that’s a bit much.
Im sure its on the docket, but i really need to see better controller support. Id love to have 2 options for inputs (a or up to jump) and to enable chords (id love one button to combo break, foe instance)
Duos is amazing for getting friends into the game and just getting some variety if you're tired of fighting your friend. Can't imagine why you'd want to play with randoms though, that's what 1v1 is for. For everything else, it's still really early. I'm looking forward to next year.
I was going a little crazy at the beginning trying to find Ahri Vegeta A since I didn't know it was asist only That type of assist is really is so good 😂
will never get this discussion about long combos. umvc3 was so amazing and combo length was never an issue. plus i imagine match making would solve beginners running into peeps that will destroy them with said long combos. all other rooms for improvement are valid though
@@rooflemonger hmmm I respectfully disagree. Normal abc combo into fly, then spike, assist extention then dhc is akin to the length of time a combo in this game takes no? I mean I played magneto. Hyper grab loops weren't glitches. Zero install zoop zoop combos weren't glitches. I don't know man. But to each their own. Great video regardless
Yeah i can't imagine playinf duos with some stranger in silence. You need that communication. Duos with friends over discord was pretty fun. I personally still prefer singles competitively tho
Roofle doing Roofle stuff which is always awesome. Me as a filthy casual fighting game scrub, my takeaway from this game is that it's a bit too Power Rangery to me with those long ass combos. The only tag fighting game that I like (meaning I can play) is MK9. But then again, I'm a stinking filthy casual, so what do I know! 🐸
I generally agree with you on most of this, but have to disagree on combo length. I love how long combos are in this game. It's something I've always liked about team games, whether we're talking MvC3, DBFZ, or BBTag, getting to jusf wail on my opponent for a good while as a reward for getting the hit is great. I'm more than happy to let my opponent do it to me in exchange for being able to do it myself. Also, honestly, I'm happier getting command grabbed into combo by Braum - or May, Sol, etc in other games - than just getting one-hit grabbed for 40%+. It looks cooler and feels more like my opponent worked for the damage (yes I know it's not usually actually harder, it's just a feel thing).
I'm just noticing that the main thing is people float a lot on hit... They might need to upgrade the gravity and it may fix a number of combo issues...
Duos is the same in league. If yah dont have some type of communication, it's hard to win ur lane. Im excited for it. Me and my brother have good synergy with each other. I mained jungle but when he played with me. We would go bot together. Ill adc, and he would be support. I hope our characters makes it into the game. Riot if ur reading. Add lucian and leona to the game. Ps udyr as well. 😅
Honestly, getting command grabbed into a combo for 70% that can be dropped or bursted out of is less annoying than getting command grabbed for 30% I cant do anything about
About combo length: sure it's a bit long, but >personally< i wouldn't like for the full conversions(counting assists and all shenanigans) to be any shorter than ~15s, specially in a game as expressive as 2XKO. I do like short combos too like in street fighter, but to me this idea of "omg i can't press buttons for 15s because i got hit in the first place this game sucks!!!!!" is as silly and childish as it gets tbh. What i will say is that i feel like the level 2 supers are a little too long. It's cool to watch the fun animation the first few times, but it gets old really quick and having 10 extra seconds in a combo purely for animations just because i play double down is a little annoying imo, specially considering we build bar really fast so supers aren't rare in any way.
combos in this game are really fun and cool looking, and as long as there's variety in routing to get oki, corner carry, setups, etc, i don't think combos should be too short. there are different games for that.
Lobbies are great for online casual locals or tournaments where you have a group trying to practice and get advice, but when I'm just looking to play like a couple quick matches, yeah I'd rather have matchmaking.
Dude, it's so good to see you go in as deep into combos as you did. It seems like most of the other big content creators only talked about it on a small level without actually diving into the number of inputs, amounts of hits, ect. Lovely breakdown of Illaoi in general, too. I chose to main her for the alpha, and...yeah, it's all true. It made her almost feel like she needed to be played more with a more defensive playstyle than the literal big man with the huge shield (at least until one tentacle is able to be spawned). Another idea might be just to have a tentacle passivly spawn every number of seconds as long as there's not already one out. Also, I feel like the lore specific barks might be a thing that's already coming, as there IS currently one lore specific intro quote for Ahri when she's facing Ekko (both on point) where she refers to him as the "time child" (I forgot the whole quote). Win quotes, not so sure, since like... there just aren't any at all. There ARE sort of custom announcer quotes on win, but, those seem very specific to the char that landed the final hit (Ex: They got the axe, Darius wins). Possibly they could do something with those though?
Not mentioned but darius and yasuo both get solo combos midscreen off air throw regardless of height. Yasuo does falling jS2 > 6S1~S2 >j[S1] etc and Darius was falling jS1 > jM > 5M >2H >2S1 etc. combo length was fine (outside of ahri) tbh but damage was too high.
im now 12 hours since shutting off the alpha lab for the last time and im finding myself getting withdrawals that i cant fire it up anymore... really thought i was hitting a stride and getting used to it's idiosyncrasies this past weekend... cmon Riot let me just get one more hit!....
@rooflemonger programmatically. This is harder. Probably easier for alpha to do it this way as well. Gamestart is sensitive. In terms of setting up the netcode and instance
@@rooflemonger I understand, but it's still better than the majority of games where one player can deny everyone's intros like a spoiled child. I like watching intros EVERY TIME (unless they are really long like in Guilty Gear or Granblue for exemple).
I played Illaoi in every iteration of my team and seeing such a long section of video dedicated to her makes me feel like it wasn't me who sucked lol I agree her grounded normals are pitiful, and even her air buttons were left wanting. Though I just felt like a lot of characters' air buttons were meant to for air-to-air instead of jump-ins, the big exceptions being Ahri's (of course) j.H and Braum's j.S2(?) Illaoi's j.H is 2 hits which is good for oki but I found I couldn't convert if I hit a standing opponent with it, and it's too slow and small to challenge in the air.
I wonder if they could steal a note from blazblue where you have a special button as the "drive" button, but still have some motions associated with that? 4 Buttons + dash and parry I guess Could be interesting
I dont think combos are that long until you add in ahri, with her unscaling assist. Zero loops in umc3 are much longer, and dante combos feel longer by design.
So Big Roof, what do you think about tuning the "grooves" by adding weaknesses to them. I know you mentioned adding to the scaling on supers for freestyle, but what about similar "restrictions" on other ones. For example, if you pick 2x asssist, your normal assist cool down timer is slower. If you pick pulse, you sacrifice a little bit of damage on autocombos. If you pick rage, you take a little extra damage overall, then deal extra damage and get a couple of the rage cancel charges... If every fusion had a clear drawback to counterbalance its upside, maybe it would be more interesting to play with and against them.
I play on pad and feel the same about the controllers. I hate use the L1 and L2. If the game add a mode with motions will be better to me. Maybe something like GBVS.
I agree with just about everything u said. And to the note of illaoi feeling weak without tenticles- it's kinda her thing in every game she's in. Even in league, she's a set play champ that's literally useless unless she camps her tentacles and the enemies run into her. But I would like it if they added her "test of spirit" ability as a basic move. Tldr her lvl 2 is a basic spell in league and she makes a clone of the enemy that stands there, if u hit it they take a chunk of the DMG u deal to their "spirit" but if the enemy fights her, the "spirit" goes away super fast. In league it serves the purpose of basically forcing an enemy to interact with her set play (even if it's technically not them- they still take some of the damage ur tentacles do to the spirit!) and I think that's what's missing for her. She needs some kinda ranged setup tool for her, all of her options ATM are super unsafe, (most s2's are either unsafe or super stubby) and that isn't how she works in any other game lol, even in the RPG she has a taunt to force enemies to interact with her lmfao
Also- HER TENTICLE SPAWNING MECHANIC IN LEAGUE IS A PASSIVE! SHE TOTALLY SHOULD SPAWN TENTACLES EVEN IF SHE WHIFFS S2 MOVES! THATS LITERALLY HOW SHE WORKS IN LEAGUE LMFAOOOOOOOOO u read my mind
Yes, give me motion inputs and maybe an option to disable certain macros altogether, easy inputs are too prone to misinputs and feel much worse than stick motions once you've learned them, especially when working 8-directional like in Tekken. I also think fighting game devs should maybe start experimenting with flexible control schemes, where you can assign motions/macros to your specials. Imagine your favorite character has a core move on 22H, so having to constantly input it is complete ass.
People keep asking for motions, which I just find bizarre. I think people need to just get used to this, because honesty I think it’s probably the future of fighting games. As a guy who has played a lot of fighting games, and thought I would hate 1 button inputs I actually love them. I guess there is no harm for adding the option to do motion inputs, but it should only be an option u can turn on if u want. There should be no benefit to it in this game
one thing that bugged me a lot was the wakeup timing, it felt very weird to meaty jab and i kept whiffing it because the timing is different from other games. and if you whiff it you cant cancel out and end up getting hit with a medium for 60% at minimun. other then that i love the game and wish i could play more of it right now
Feel like they also need to rework how hard knockdown works because in any other game, even other hyper fighters, if you're hard knocked down it's over and there's nothing you can bypass that, but for some reason Yasuo can get around that.
I'm fine with illaoi buffs as long as fS1 is not -0 on block. Playing ekko against her felt a bit difficult to get in against that move. Hell even as ahri sometimes, being a projectile based character.
Lobbies arent probably going anywhere, there's clear focus on avatars when it comes to monetization, half of the stuff on the battle pass was for your avatar, so beeing abble to showoff ur emotes and looks is atleast 40% of the money for the game. I do agree that not beeing abble to lab/train while queuing is annoying though.
Lies…. That core problem is why I can’t get into SkullGirls Neutral >>> Combos That’s one thing Street Fighter nails. The combos are short and to the point then the game immediately goes back to decision making
@@jimdino77 sf sucks, and hasn't been good since sf4. the game has breakers, combo length is fine. it's made after one of the most hype fgc games ever made, and that's marvel vs capcom, it shouldn't need to dumb itself down.
@@BGTournaments I actually like Street fighter 6 still even though I'm still pretty casual and new to it, but I still agree with this comment. Marvel versus capcommon is an amazing game and that's what this game is supposed to be like and I would say arguably your longer combos aren't locked behind a plink cancel or anything crazy like that so I don't see the problem either LOL. And I still like marvel even though I'm having to learn to to do harder stuff . Yeah, combo breaker is a really nice tool to get out of jail for free and put it back in neutral
My main problem is that pulse fuse feels like it should be how the game is played by default but it isnt and the combos without pulse fuse are kinda alot (for me personally) also i really hope they dont avoid adding yordles just cus they're kinda small, i wanna see heimerdinger and vex so bad 😭
I actually really don't like Illaoi's second super. The tentacles it summons: Can't be comanded, (so it takes away your options and limits your combo routes) Can't use the command grab (which takes away a bunch of your mix and pressure). Both die the if the player gets hit once (which is an additional weakness on top of the normal tentacles). And it isn't set up in the corner, the oppoennt just runs away, and you super sits there doing nothing. On top of that any tentacles already on the field and ones you summon during the time frame turn into super ones. So you either have to sit and wait it out, or play the game essentially tentacleless. I just don't like anything about it.
I don’t think the combos are too long. I just think Ari’s combos are just long and boring. I don’t mind long combos as long as I’m not just looping the same 4 hits.
It is a massive problem that so much of the plan in neutral is to abuse your most broken button. In other 2d games you have to setup your situation just right before you have lots of block pressure but in 2xko you get it almost for free. Ahri is the worst offender of this, but it's everywhere. The game is really good, but it's not polished at the moment.
So as promised at the end of the 2XKO Alpha Lab / Beta Journey, here we are with some final thoughts about the game. Its no surprise I like the game overall, but there's lots of room to improve a lot of quality of life stuff and im not just talking about like bugfixes or something akin to that. So this vid is a big jumble of a lot of thoughts I have about the game and its all in the vid(so watch it!) but basically, the foundation of the game is solid. There's stuff to work with here and I think they will get where it needs to be. I have one set of thoughts among many and riot has been very accepting and receptive of ideas and criticisms so hopefully they take it all in and make this the game it needs to be. So my thoughts are all in the video so give a watch, like if ya liked it, and let me know what you thought about 2xko in the comments below!
I am not sure who you got a chance to duo with, I saw Sajam and jmcrofts pair up and they terrorized a lobby. Like you and either of those dudes would be a menace. Would definitely watch that for sure!
What if fury gave gg guts?
I'll happily be your big body, Fat Monkey Mafia duo buddy if you ever change your mind on duos big Roof!! 😤
Duos are the most unique thing brought to fighting games in a long time.
It may not be optimal, it may be harder to set up for the average person, but there has been nothing even CLOSE to the fun I've had teaming up with my friends, setting up alley oops, cheering each other on, thinking about cool setups... Plus there's so much room for interesting narratives as top players develop cool tech, play with other teams, swap characters, etc.
I REALLY hope that teams get official tourney support because in my mind, that's 100% where the truly unique X-factor of this game lies. Singles is much easier to do the high tech, ridiculous execution stuff, but duos is where the hype is.
Yeah, I was caught completely off guard by how much fun the duo mode is. I was 100% expecting to have the same reception toward it that Roof did, but I ended up loving it. Landing the sick combo extensions and setting up the real grimy stuff as a duo was just so damn satisfying
The famous wombo combo video came from a Smash doubles match and it was one of the most insanely coordinated team plays I’ve ever seen. Shame that co op team fighters are so rare because the concept is so much fun in execution
facts
I definitely hope duo tournaments become a thing. The duo concept has been fun to me since way back in the Marvel vs Capcom 4 player option on the port for the Sega dreamcast. I still remember being in a vacation house with friends and picking up a copy of DOA 4 for the Xbox 360. I was the only one of maybe 8 people who had even played a DOA game before. The 2v2 matches were sooo hype! Even casually, duo mode definitely delivers a lot of fun.
I hope tournaments give you the option of playing solo or duo. Imagine this at Evo and half of the top 8 is a duo 🤔
The comment on starting with at least 1 meter is so real, thanks for calling this out!
I do believe that in the duos you NEED to be in a voice chat of some kind because it's really hard to play duos without that communication
I played with a pal on PS5 while on PC. It was definitely harder than when in discord with my PC pal.
@@TheReal_FishFinsYou do know PS5 can use Discord now, right?
@@thegoat9219 I completely agree. I had so much fun playing, but I realized I was in a discord call on a 2xko server and didn't realize that that feature wasn't even in the game. There should definitely be voice chat in the game that you can opt in or out of or at least if you had a toxic teammate just be able to mute them. But yeah voice chat is mandatory for team play for sure dude
@@QuaversYT as a huge Halo 3 fan I have to say that having all these systems built into the game is a lot better than having to outsource it
@@imezstreety33t28 Well having Discord is better than nothing. Not every game will have VC.
Ahri is strong but shes also so simple compared to the rest of the cast. I would prefer if she was complicated as Echo. As she is now all you need is the fireball and all her mobility isnt needed. Working angles with her other special was so much more fun because you needed to use mobility and could try to bait out anti-airs. Feel like this game can't afford to be simpler than Darius.
Also big agree on wanting to just get into a match and stay in matchmaking. Hate being kicked off the arcade and having to restart matchmaking
She actually was more complex before, but not in a terribly fun way. Fox fire was like ammunition and you had to reload like demo sonya in MKX. Maybe she could change up again but I prefer the current version to busy body having to reload stuff.
Combo length isn’t as important as combo girth imo
It’s true, turn down the damage
Funnily enough my main rival in my friend group paired with me for the alpha and our synergy was great! We barely had to communicate while playing and that was such a unique experience for me personally
Also this is probably gonna be a busy day for the channel, Gamescom Opening Night live is in a few hours (2pm EST my time) and we can very likely expect a Terry Bogard SF6 trailer, and maybe some Fatal Fury stuff too! I will stream along on the rooflemonger twitch like half~ an hour before it goes live or so so tune in to that maybe? Whatever gets announced and shown fighting game wise will get its own vid today so stay tuned and keep on watching!
Good luck and well wishes my guy. You are appreciated
Glad this game is doing Alpha and then Beta before launch. The 2v2 aspect of it I loved ! Played the alpha with a friend and had a blast! I played Illaoi and the process of learning the character/ getting the most of situations was very rewarding. Can't wait for improvements and a full launch 🙌🏻
Probably the biggest issue I had was that they didn't include 3 of the games primary defensive mechanics in the tutorial. I did not know about them until Sajam put a vid out on them, but my impressions of the game was souring up until I watched it the night the alpha ended (yes, I know that they were in the movelist menu, but I think its fair for a tutorial to cover universal mechanics like them for such a limited play environment)
I still don't know if I like how the game treats interactions and exchanges, but I was more positive on that aspect after learning of the retreating block, push block, and parry mechanics
I don't mind the long combos, but I don't like how the only option to deal with them is a VERY stringent burst gauge
The games basic tools like jabs and dashes are more committed than they would appear. The amount of times I tried to get in and meaty or apply pressure, only to have my opponent stuff me out of my dash recovery was insane. I realize its intentional and they want you to use assist to apply pressure, but it just feels awkward in a way thats just not intuitive with how the rest of the game plays imo
I liked it, I had fun, could feel the Riot polish, but I get the feeling that the devs might want to make a different game than what I want 2XKO to be
34:43 actually ahri has a intro voice line vs ekko where she says something like “are you ready time boy” (I don’t remember the exact voice line)
More specifically: "Hello time-child. Ready to make some magic?"
(I played Ahri/Ekko the entire duration of the AlphaTest.)
@@JTown465 thank you
Playing duos was one of the most fun times I've had in fighting games for years.
BUT yea 100% you have to do it with a friend over voice chat so you can call out assist, burst or tag, and lab sequences in advance etc.
I Couldn't imagine doing it with just a rando found in matchmaking or something.
But just beating up on fools with the homie on voice chat, talking shit and getting hype is just the most amazing feeling and I cant believe it took this long for a fighting game to do this (I was really praying MVCI would have this but yea)
Yea SFxT and MK9 had tag modes, but they were just that, play 1v1, tag in the homie and they play 1v1, at best you got some extended combos from tagging but that was it.
Having to coördinate tagging, burst and assists makes it so much more of an engaging experience, at least for me it did.
I'm pretty sure all the people who were praising duos were actually playing with a friend over discord.
So I would definitely recommend giving that a try next time we get to play the game!
Oh man, I love win quotes! I remember the 1st time giggling when Spider-man said this only in mirror matches in Marvel Super Heroes “Just what I need...another clone!” What made this funny he said this during the whole "Clone Saga" arc in the comics. Also I love the UMVC3's personal intro & win quotes against specific characters like with Spidery winning against Ghost Rider is just hilarious.
I think giving each player half a meter would work, by the time you get pushed to a corner and need it, it should be built to 1 by then. Also I think parry should be available if you have only half a bar. But normally takes 1 if you have it
Glad someone else pointed out that it ain't just Ahri and Yasuo who get long in the tooth combos, yes they are suspect A and B respectively but just cause Braum doesn't do fast multi hits doesn't mean ya might as well make a sandwich while he combos ya since each hit has long attack times during them I think Ahri's just the most visible and that it generally always starts from neutral S1 and thus is very linear. Pretty happy with the Alpha state but yeah while I want them to address the general critiques I do wonder how they will handle the balance in response whether they do compensating buffs and nerfs or shotgun em NRS style (really hope its not the latter.) Take Ahri for example, yes fixing the damage scale bug is a big priority but I worry if they nerf combos or the assist itself that can severely limit her viability since she's gonna be on the lower end of HP for the final roster and while she does have projectiles they aren't faster than some of the longer reaching attacks so I hope they are careful in how they tune her and I also hope they can vary up her neutral options so that you aren't always just fishing for S1 and/or Mediums (namely I want Foxfire Dash to be a more enticing neutral option since as is its too unsafe with the only practical use I found as a dive kick in that situation.) Otherwise I had a lot of fun learning this game and look forward to see what they modify and add in the final release as this is still my potential golden goose of a fighting game right now since Ahri and Yasuo are 2 of my favorite characters period and being able to explore them in a fighting game system has been as fun as I hoped it would be (if it weren't for the limited time I'd try more team comps) so here's hoping they can keep improving the final product
I totally agree that 2x assist should be 6 seconds like freestyle. That's insane that it's still 2. I love freestyle, I've been using it with Illaoi Braum, you can throw out Braum's forward assist, tag him in, double special 2 to get the ice, then tag back in and do whatever you want with Illaoi, and that's an easy way to get corner with a tentacle and the buff for Braum. It's neat! But is it anywhere near as rewarding as double assist on a better team? No, barely anything is better than 2x assist Ahri... So please, give them the 6 seconds. It's not fair that my fun and cool combos put me in assist jail and the super easy spammy ones are free as the wind.
I hope they keep the couches sliding around between matches. It had character.
The idea that casuals/non fighting game players want simply inputs is built on a completely false foundation.
Casuals want 4 major things.
1. New Shiny graphics
2. large roster
3 overblown single player content
4 existing popular IP
Commenting because I adore rooflemonger.
Duos are going to be a way to get my partner into fighting games. I'm really excited for that.
I am over the moon for duos for the simple reason that it will get my friends to play and possibly even my partner. My friends don't want to grind to learn the motion controls of regular fighting games (which i find very understandable) and they also do not appreciate me clapping them over and over when we play. This will be the perfect introductory game for them. Pulse will let them auto combo until they figure that out and they can play with me, instead of against me, which means that they'll probably get to win a few instead of getting dumpstered over and over (which is a big deterrent to people getting into the fgc)
Totally agree with your point regarding combo length - I've heard arguments like "It's a versus game, so combos will be long." and I couldn't wrap my head around that. It's not like there's any law (that I know of) dictating having long-ass combos in versus games, and I hope the people from Riot will address that and dare to go in a different, albeit less traditional direction.
My son is autistic and needs a little help while he plays fighting games..now we can team up and get him some wins, hell I love it
As a filthy casual who has to wait for my turn to play while I'm in these long combos, I can definitely say that the combos in my opinion are not too long. I played against some pretty high level people that had very optimal combos and I played pulse probably 85% of the game with the time that I had And I still had a blast. If anything, it just put a lot of weight on whether or not you respect someone or if you're going to do something risky again, someone who knows how to play and whenever I pulled stuff off against those people with my very tiny limited knowledge it felt really good It would be boring to play and watch people do the same short combos.
Illaoi lacking because she needs to earn what other Bruisers already get for free... Sounds like they translated her from League perfectly then.
I agree with Illaoi needing another way to put a tentacle on the screen that doesn’t require touching the opponent. It would also extend her range and threat level. Was also thinking how would it be if they gave the tentacle health similar to Jack-O’s houses or just keep it how it is?
The intro thing no doubt comes from when people would let their own intro play out, but immediately cancel the opponent's. Agreed that you should be able to skip your own at least.
My only problem with the game is that the combos do way too much damage. With illaoi one bar, I could almost one shot the whole cast.
Ahri bug?
Thank you for the Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution call out.
It's weird cause I think illaoi has the worst range by far, but she definitely has the best long range whiff punish. Like special1 is such a good long range punish tool.
I absolutely think combos are an appropriate length. it allows for more player expression and long combos are a part of the tag fg genre
Agreed, I find short combos boring
The first combo he showed was legit 10 seconds long...
I pray riot don't listen to this silly criticism. Only part I agree with is lvl 2 supers are to long.(I'm scared of a kid Goku situation again)
Until you're sitting there watching your character get hit with a combo that's 20 seconds long.
@@kashaunmorris2179 That literally only happens when people pop lvl 2s at the end of the longer combos in the game...
Combo length is ok, this is a vs game after all. Except for ahri, most of this can be solved speeding up animations
Gives me something to watch while I’m at work….good looks roof! 😎
Illaoi stuff is a bit sad, right now she's the reason I am interested in this game. Also the reason I got Ruined King: A League of Legend Story.
I don't think the long combos themselves are the problem, its how "Easy" or autopilot they look while its going on or how easy they are to randomly land of multiple stray hits.
If there were only certain routes and situations that allowed for the same combos they would be fine.
On top of that real audio rhythm to go along with it, people kinda sleep on how much of a factor this plays but imagine MvC2 and the iron man infinite without a gunt/voice effect for each swing he does and just the 1st and last hit... It's far less enjoyable and tolerable. Same with Magneto's rom infinite and every single loop or infinite in the game.
I highly suggest every normal swing and air dash for every character has a attack grunt it'll do wonders for the game.
Never thought of the audio rhythm before but that’s a great point. Like the combos in UNI are pretty long, but it doesn’t feel that way when you’re in the game because the characters constantly have voice lines after every move. Seth’s combos don’t just look cool, they sound cool and that’s the same for all the other characters.
This feels like something that anime fighters tend to nail in my experience
I think combo length is fine. It’s the nature of tag fighters. A lot of the combos, especially when expending resources, can get long and some of the extreme examples should be toned down. But basic bnbs feel fine in my opinion. I find the combos rewarding. I don’t want combos to be just a few hits long and not feeling as rewarding
I really enjoyed it. I am fairly casual and hopeful for a great tutorial .
On defense, imo the most important mechanic is parry, which also needs a bar to activate in the first place. Really good call on starting with a bar or changing something around at round start!
Illaoi S2 whiffing on little block strings hurts the soul. I enjoyed playing her and stuck with her through most of the Lab but I hope she gets some love
I don't think they need motion inputs at all. Tekken has many, many more moves, even without counting the strings, and just 4 buttons. They need to make better use of diagonals and multiple presses for special moves, that is all.
1) Regarding combos and their length, I personally don't mind the idea of long combos but I've also been desensitized to them. I totally get it if devs decide to reel it in a little, but I'm hoping they don't go overboard. As is the main issue with the longer combos is that there's a lot of looped sequences in them which makes it stale faster. Ahri is of course the biggest offender, and Braum also has this problem as there's a lot of "your flavor of H button -> hold S2" sequences in his stuff. Yasuo has long combos too, but he does it correctly imo.
I think Yasuo's fine on the long combo aspect because he actually has VARIETY in his combo routes. He's a very freeflow character when you get the hang of his stance attacks and that opens up so many branches in his combo tree. You might see 2 or possibly 3 combo routes depending on what the other available characters want, but Yasuo can extend off so much more which means you can see 3-4x as many combo paths from him. His combos may be lengthy when optimal, but the extra variety helps him feel way less stale, and I think his current implementation is something they should look at when considering combos for other characters.
2) With the current fuse system, I'm indifferent on it. I like the idea of it, but implementation needs work. Pulse might be the "beginner" fuse but in a duo where players have different skill levels/preferences, it serves as a handicap to the player who doesn't need it. Double down/DHC is also just such a staple in tag fighters now that putting it as a fuse just feels off. Plus with how each works, there's really not anything stopping a player from being able to use all at once other than devs realizing their "beginner friendly" game would be the average tag fighter if all could be active at the same time.
I won't speak on potential future changes to fuses, but I do think that they should consider giving one fuse per character in a future testing session. This way your beginenr friend can keep autocombos but you can make use of double down/fury/etc if you'd like. It could also add extra strategy to make use of other character strengths if a fuse applies to one character but not another. One character being able to call 2x assist while the other can start a DHC and it not working the other way around could make for more interesting decision making that way. Plus, this would allow those who don't mind having something like freestyle for both characters to still play that way if they want, but now there's more opportunity to experiment with synergy, or you and your duo can play to more of their own strengths.
I absolutely agree %1000 with the Buff Illaoi part. Skill issues for sure, but usually I was up a creek once Darius died.
Ahri combos feel too long cause they're kind of boring loops. But every combo in this game seems to take you to the corner. Doesn't seem to matter how big the stage is or which character you are, every hit is taking you to the corner.
I agree with starting with a single meter, since parry and pushblock are gated behind them, but they shouldn't be free.
Idea:
One bar at the start
If you have no meter to push block, you can use half your burst meter to push block and keep everyone in a neutral state.
illaoi can combo into TK j.s2 off of a raw throw (no tentacle) and cancel into super, including tentacle super
So sad to see the game is gone😢
Reward off throw should definitely be universal. Either everyone gets a combo off throw or no one does.
Illaoi was definitely my favorite character. Her normals definitely need better range. Her Forward S1 is pretty good though
It is a truly unique and great concept.
If you have a friend playing it.
If not, its fraking not gonna work.
And most regions of the world do not have a scene.
Also, fck Illaoi. And Ahri. And Yasu. And Darius for sure.
Freestyle was for sure the best, cross up on Yasuo, tag for cross up, tag again for cross up. Can do like triple cross up mix with a minute of labbing
I had a lot of fun with the alpha. The 1st couple days was a little rough but after that hot fix for the latency issue it ran way better. I do think the burst mechanic should be adjusted to build a bit slower. Some games me or my opponent would be able to use it twice I feel like that’s a bit much.
Im sure its on the docket, but i really need to see better controller support. Id love to have 2 options for inputs (a or up to jump) and to enable chords (id love one button to combo break, foe instance)
loved hearing "Moonsiders - Tekken 7 OST"
Illaoi on your team needs to spawn tentacles automatically. In league her passive summons a tentacle in an empty spot like every 15 seconds.
Duos is amazing for getting friends into the game and just getting some variety if you're tired of fighting your friend. Can't imagine why you'd want to play with randoms though, that's what 1v1 is for.
For everything else, it's still really early. I'm looking forward to next year.
The hitstops are too long in this game which makes the combos feel just too sluggish.
Yeah, in duos, you NEED to be in the same room or have voice chat at least with a friend to have it be fun.
I was going a little crazy at the beginning trying to find Ahri Vegeta A since I didn't know it was asist only
That type of assist is really is so good 😂
I freakin hated that if you made just one mistake you lost 50% of your HP and it is not hard to accomplish at all
Ah, my friend has never played strive
That can happen in almost any modern fighting game.....and even not so modern fighting games.
will never get this discussion about long combos. umvc3 was so amazing and combo length was never an issue. plus i imagine match making would solve beginners running into peeps that will destroy them with said long combos. all other rooms for improvement are valid though
there was never any hope of a patch and a lot of the long combos in marvel 3 are results of bugs or unintended features.
@@rooflemonger hmmm I respectfully disagree. Normal abc combo into fly, then spike, assist extention then dhc is akin to the length of time a combo in this game takes no? I mean I played magneto. Hyper grab loops weren't glitches. Zero install zoop zoop combos weren't glitches. I don't know man. But to each their own. Great video regardless
Yeah i can't imagine playinf duos with some stranger in silence. You need that communication. Duos with friends over discord was pretty fun. I personally still prefer singles competitively tho
Roofle doing Roofle stuff which is always awesome. Me as a filthy casual fighting game scrub, my takeaway from this game is that it's a bit too Power Rangery to me with those long ass combos.
The only tag fighting game that I like (meaning I can play) is MK9.
But then again, I'm a stinking filthy casual, so what do I know! 🐸
I generally agree with you on most of this, but have to disagree on combo length. I love how long combos are in this game. It's something I've always liked about team games, whether we're talking MvC3, DBFZ, or BBTag, getting to jusf wail on my opponent for a good while as a reward for getting the hit is great. I'm more than happy to let my opponent do it to me in exchange for being able to do it myself.
Also, honestly, I'm happier getting command grabbed into combo by Braum - or May, Sol, etc in other games - than just getting one-hit grabbed for 40%+. It looks cooler and feels more like my opponent worked for the damage (yes I know it's not usually actually harder, it's just a feel thing).
I'm just noticing that the main thing is people float a lot on hit...
They might need to upgrade the gravity and it may fix a number of combo issues...
Duos is the same in league. If yah dont have some type of communication, it's hard to win ur lane. Im excited for it. Me and my brother have good synergy with each other. I mained jungle but when he played with me. We would go bot together. Ill adc, and he would be support. I hope our characters makes it into the game. Riot if ur reading. Add lucian and leona to the game. Ps udyr as well. 😅
I'll be your duo partner Roof ♥️
I hope they address the damage scaling/combos.....that's literally what killed GG Strive for me. So I really want this game to feel good!
Honestly, getting command grabbed into a combo for 70% that can be dropped or bursted out of is less annoying than getting command grabbed for 30% I cant do anything about
VF4 EVOLUTION MENTIONED (im 36)
I think fury would be better if they gave you 3 dashes instead of one feels like they made it bad because they where scared of making it to op
Fury dash “regenerates” after you stop glowing, so its not 1 ever, but yeah its underpowered
@@loltaunt by the time it regenerates u probably dead😂
About combo length: sure it's a bit long, but >personally< i wouldn't like for the full conversions(counting assists and all shenanigans) to be any shorter than ~15s, specially in a game as expressive as 2XKO.
I do like short combos too like in street fighter, but to me this idea of "omg i can't press buttons for 15s because i got hit in the first place this game sucks!!!!!" is as silly and childish as it gets tbh.
What i will say is that i feel like the level 2 supers are a little too long. It's cool to watch the fun animation the first few times, but it gets old really quick and having 10 extra seconds in a combo purely for animations just because i play double down is a little annoying imo, specially considering we build bar really fast so supers aren't rare in any way.
combos in this game are really fun and cool looking, and as long as there's variety in routing to get oki, corner carry, setups, etc, i don't think combos should be too short. there are different games for that.
Lobbies are great for online casual locals or tournaments where you have a group trying to practice and get advice, but when I'm just looking to play like a couple quick matches, yeah I'd rather have matchmaking.
Dude, it's so good to see you go in as deep into combos as you did. It seems like most of the other big content creators only talked about it on a small level without actually diving into the number of inputs, amounts of hits, ect.
Lovely breakdown of Illaoi in general, too. I chose to main her for the alpha, and...yeah, it's all true. It made her almost feel like she needed to be played more with a more defensive playstyle than the literal big man with the huge shield (at least until one tentacle is able to be spawned). Another idea might be just to have a tentacle passivly spawn every number of seconds as long as there's not already one out.
Also, I feel like the lore specific barks might be a thing that's already coming, as there IS currently one lore specific intro quote for Ahri when she's facing Ekko (both on point) where she refers to him as the "time child" (I forgot the whole quote). Win quotes, not so sure, since like... there just aren't any at all. There ARE sort of custom announcer quotes on win, but, those seem very specific to the char that landed the final hit (Ex: They got the axe, Darius wins). Possibly they could do something with those though?
Not mentioned but darius and yasuo both get solo combos midscreen off air throw regardless of height. Yasuo does falling jS2 > 6S1~S2 >j[S1] etc and Darius was falling jS1 > jM > 5M >2H >2S1 etc. combo length was fine (outside of ahri) tbh but damage was too high.
Combo length feels fine to me with ahri being an outlier. Honestly just give burst back faster it settles it for me
im now 12 hours since shutting off the alpha lab for the last time and im finding myself getting withdrawals that i cant fire it up anymore... really thought i was hitting a stride and getting used to it's idiosyncrasies this past weekend... cmon Riot let me just get one more hit!....
It's still running currently for another 45 min lmao
@@WickedFninja i have a job
@@gillgillgillgillgill Js we running it hot till its over lol
Intro skip only if both players agree is a cool touch.
at least let me skip my own intro though, don't chain me to the other player
@rooflemonger programmatically. This is harder. Probably easier for alpha to do it this way as well. Gamestart is sensitive. In terms of setting up the netcode and instance
@@rooflemonger I understand, but it's still better than the majority of games where one player can deny everyone's intros like a spoiled child. I like watching intros EVERY TIME (unless they are really long like in Guilty Gear or Granblue for exemple).
I played Illaoi in every iteration of my team and seeing such a long section of video dedicated to her makes me feel like it wasn't me who sucked lol I agree her grounded normals are pitiful, and even her air buttons were left wanting. Though I just felt like a lot of characters' air buttons were meant to for air-to-air instead of jump-ins, the big exceptions being Ahri's (of course) j.H and Braum's j.S2(?) Illaoi's j.H is 2 hits which is good for oki but I found I couldn't convert if I hit a standing opponent with it, and it's too slow and small to challenge in the air.
I wonder if they could steal a note from blazblue where you have a special button as the "drive" button, but still have some motions associated with that? 4 Buttons + dash and parry I guess
Could be interesting
I dont think combos are that long until you add in ahri, with her unscaling assist. Zero loops in umc3 are much longer, and dante combos feel longer by design.
So Big Roof, what do you think about tuning the "grooves" by adding weaknesses to them. I know you mentioned adding to the scaling on supers for freestyle, but what about similar "restrictions" on other ones. For example, if you pick 2x asssist, your normal assist cool down timer is slower. If you pick pulse, you sacrifice a little bit of damage on autocombos. If you pick rage, you take a little extra damage overall, then deal extra damage and get a couple of the rage cancel charges... If every fusion had a clear drawback to counterbalance its upside, maybe it would be more interesting to play with and against them.
I play on pad and feel the same about the controllers. I hate use the L1 and L2. If the game add a mode with motions will be better to me. Maybe something like GBVS.
Yasuo gets a full combo off throw in the corner
I agree with just about everything u said. And to the note of illaoi feeling weak without tenticles- it's kinda her thing in every game she's in. Even in league, she's a set play champ that's literally useless unless she camps her tentacles and the enemies run into her. But I would like it if they added her "test of spirit" ability as a basic move.
Tldr her lvl 2 is a basic spell in league and she makes a clone of the enemy that stands there, if u hit it they take a chunk of the DMG u deal to their "spirit" but if the enemy fights her, the "spirit" goes away super fast. In league it serves the purpose of basically forcing an enemy to interact with her set play (even if it's technically not them- they still take some of the damage ur tentacles do to the spirit!) and I think that's what's missing for her.
She needs some kinda ranged setup tool for her, all of her options ATM are super unsafe, (most s2's are either unsafe or super stubby) and that isn't how she works in any other game lol, even in the RPG she has a taunt to force enemies to interact with her lmfao
Also- HER TENTICLE SPAWNING MECHANIC IN LEAGUE IS A PASSIVE! SHE TOTALLY SHOULD SPAWN TENTACLES EVEN IF SHE WHIFFS S2 MOVES! THATS LITERALLY HOW SHE WORKS IN LEAGUE LMFAOOOOOOOOO u read my mind
If not start with 1 meter, they could at least make parry take your remaining meter under 1, something like that
Yes, give me motion inputs and maybe an option to disable certain macros altogether, easy inputs are too prone to misinputs and feel much worse than stick motions once you've learned them, especially when working 8-directional like in Tekken. I also think fighting game devs should maybe start experimenting with flexible control schemes, where you can assign motions/macros to your specials. Imagine your favorite character has a core move on 22H, so having to constantly input it is complete ass.
People keep asking for motions, which I just find bizarre. I think people need to just get used to this, because honesty I think it’s probably the future of fighting games. As a guy who has played a lot of fighting games, and thought I would hate 1 button inputs I actually love them. I guess there is no harm for adding the option to do motion inputs, but it should only be an option u can turn on if u want. There should be no benefit to it in this game
one thing that bugged me a lot was the wakeup timing, it felt very weird to meaty jab and i kept whiffing it because the timing is different from other games. and if you whiff it you cant cancel out and end up getting hit with a medium for 60% at minimun. other then that i love the game and wish i could play more of it right now
bro, the amount of times i got hit by ahri and they got a combo off the energy orb
Feel like they also need to rework how hard knockdown works because in any other game, even other hyper fighters, if you're hard knocked down it's over and there's nothing you can bypass that, but for some reason Yasuo can get around that.
I'm fine with illaoi buffs as long as fS1 is not -0 on block. Playing ekko against her felt a bit difficult to get in against that move. Hell even as ahri sometimes, being a projectile based character.
Illaoi's fastest button is 7f, if you are having trouble after 6s2, that's on you
Lobbies arent probably going anywhere, there's clear focus on avatars when it comes to monetization, half of the stuff on the battle pass was for your avatar, so beeing abble to showoff ur emotes and looks is atleast 40% of the money for the game. I do agree that not beeing abble to lab/train while queuing is annoying though.
The combos gotta be long and hard to do
We need couch co-op to be more in sync, rather than having it on the mic chat.
I think as long as the combos are cool and interesting it doesn't matter how long they are
Lies…. That core problem is why I can’t get into SkullGirls
Neutral >>> Combos
That’s one thing Street Fighter nails. The combos are short and to the point then the game immediately goes back to decision making
@@jimdino77 sf sucks, and hasn't been good since sf4. the game has breakers, combo length is fine. it's made after one of the most hype fgc games ever made, and that's marvel vs capcom, it shouldn't need to dumb itself down.
Long combos sucks.
@@jimdino77Skullgirls is a prime example of combos being interactive, in a game covered in resets, how could combos not be interactive?
@@BGTournaments I actually like Street fighter 6 still even though I'm still pretty casual and new to it, but I still agree with this comment. Marvel versus capcommon is an amazing game and that's what this game is supposed to be like and I would say arguably your longer combos aren't locked behind a plink cancel or anything crazy like that so I don't see the problem either LOL. And I still like marvel even though I'm having to learn to to do harder stuff . Yeah, combo breaker is a really nice tool to get out of jail for free and put it back in neutral
My main problem is that pulse fuse feels like it should be how the game is played by default but it isnt and the combos without pulse fuse are kinda alot (for me personally) also i really hope they dont avoid adding yordles just cus they're kinda small, i wanna see heimerdinger and vex so bad 😭
Also also i didnt even know illoli was low tier lol i just natrually gravitate to the low tiers i guess
That final sign off… I would if I could 😢
I actually really don't like Illaoi's second super.
The tentacles it summons:
Can't be comanded, (so it takes away your options and limits your combo routes)
Can't use the command grab (which takes away a bunch of your mix and pressure).
Both die the if the player gets hit once (which is an additional weakness on top of the normal tentacles).
And it isn't set up in the corner, the oppoennt just runs away, and you super sits there doing nothing.
On top of that any tentacles already on the field and ones you summon during the time frame turn into super ones.
So you either have to sit and wait it out, or play the game essentially tentacleless.
I just don't like anything about it.
I don’t think the combos are too long. I just think Ari’s combos are just long and boring.
I don’t mind long combos as long as I’m not just looping the same 4 hits.
Since its thier first fighting game it may take them a while before they fully get it but great game so far !
It's being developed by long time fgc Pros
It is a massive problem that so much of the plan in neutral is to abuse your most broken button. In other 2d games you have to setup your situation just right before you have lots of block pressure but in 2xko you get it almost for free. Ahri is the worst offender of this, but it's everywhere. The game is really good, but it's not polished at the moment.