9620R QSX15 Cummins died and will not start. (Part 1)
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Got a John Deere 9620R with a QSX15 Cummins that was getting ECU stop codes for DPF and SCR temperatures extremely high then it died like it ran out of fuel and will not restart. Got to get this tractor up and running so we can at least get it back to the shop for further repairs. Diagnosis led to replacing the high pressure fuel pump, so Josh and I are going to head out there and get the pump replaced and see if we can get this beast back alive.
#johndeere #johndeeretractor #qsx15 #cummins #cumminspower #johndeerewrenching
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I came to the same conclusion you did about the injectors! It would be a good explanation for the smoke and hard starting, considering the circumstances. Fuel injection pumps rarely suffer alone, injectors almost always suffer damage as well when they fail.
Yep, seeing the dirt, probably caused the main pump to cavitate from being fuel starved, when that happened it probably sent metal into the injectors and probably has a bunch of junk in the fuel lines/rail also
Zeth, thanks for sharing your knowledge. It's interesting seeing the outcome of the actual problem. Definitely catchya at the next one. You all stay safe!
I own several of these tractors here’s your fix. On the end of the high pressure rail there is a check valve take it out and crank the tractor if fuel comes out while cranking the tractor the check valve is bad. Change the check valve tractor will be fixed I just about guarantee you that’s the problem.
Thanks for another great video ZK and Josh. It was interesting.
Wow. You got a tough one here. I must admit you lost me shortly after the beginning of the video.
To much technical things wrong with it. You and Josh follow it but an old wrench turner like me, no.
Really takes your background to figure this one out.
Do follow you on the gas system and injection system having some foreign in it. Totally agree with you there.
Let us know what you find out on this beast.
Appreciate you and Josh doing all you could to see it run. Hang in there guys.
Thanks. The Iowa Farm Boy. Steve.
Zeth the Exorcist. Awesome job. One thing leads to another. Thank you for sharing another great video.
The diagnosis and your explanation as to how you arrived at your diagnosis demonstrates both your skill and experience and your level of professionalism that you kept digging until you felt good about your diagnosis and your need to get it back to the shop. What’s just as important is Sloan Equipment sent out a tractor for the farmer to use to get the critical fertilizer into the ground at a critical time. Says a lot about Sloan. Love the channel
I love the channel, great skills and tech. I feel like I should be near you to enjoy the masters diagnosis, Phelix at John Deere Uganda (MACOR)
I vote injectors. You can hear it miss at 15:01. Looking forward to hearing about what you found and how the contamination made it past the filters (I'd guess the owner pre-filled - and they also toasted the old starter by not following the key-cycle priming procedure- but just a guess).
Definitely sounds like your on the right track, wonder if that injection pump sends metal through the fuel system when it fails like the Bosch CP4 does.
Great video as always :D Waiting for the follow up. 👍
Check your Injector return flow put the old pump back on, pump won't be fuxked, use rail blanks to identify the duds and check the rail relief and I have seen dropped valves smack injectors and cause no starts
Great Video Zeth!!👍
It might also be worth pulling the DPF and DOC, or at least the DOC inlet and DPF outlet to make sure the that's all looking good
What you might want to do is also clean out the fuel tank and see how much trash is in the fuel tank you could’ve had contaminated fuel, that’s what took out the high-pressure pump and the injectors and like you said you have 1/2 of the amount of work that needs to get it to where it’s actually wear it and should be
I will definitely do that because that’s what started this whole mess.
It was the Green paint Cummins work great in every other colour
9:15 how come the parts don’t come with the expensive green paint on them that’s if they’re from John Deere?
Greetings, we are looking at your gem on John Deere repair and we really like your work. I am from Croatia in Europe and I have John Deere tractors. Can I ask you about a problem I have with the Johan D
How many hours on the engine?
You should of checked your fuel pressures found low pressure fuel pump gear pumps from the shit fuel has zero lubricants to lube the system causes gear pump failures so step 1 check fuel psi at cranking lift pump min 10 psi cranking psi 20 psi of lower than 20 cranking check suction side lines from plugging is something in tank ect air in fuel , if all good bad fuel pump gear pump , if you got good fuel psi cranking fuel psi above 20 check fuel rail psi with computer min 5k psi to start if less than check injector return flow and plv if they do not have excessive return flow remove head from high psi pump check to see if unit has ceramics for plungers inspect to see if there damaged pull plungers out inspect for damage also spray plungers with penetrating oil stick back in hole and press down if they bounce back there good , on another note shit fuel filters will damage the injectors of engine starts check rail psi to see if it holds psi if it drops to zero fast bad injector or pass through connectors loose ? Common , if unit has black smoke at start up snap test cracked dpf caused by over fueling injectors due to cheap fuel filters and or hi hrs
I already did all the pressure checks before we replaced the pump and did the video. We will do further testing on the injectors.
I was jumping around the video but why did the pump go out?
is that a dual crankshatft dampner?
Did you check the orfice filter and see what the matter is? I wonder if the lift pump lost it efficiency and starved the system upstream?
Is the dealer allowed to take the top pumping units off the cranking box?
Do you have any of those hats for sale? I didn’t see any in your store.
Who is the manufacturer of that high pressure pump?
are you share the problem is not it burning anti-freeze experience is that white smoke is from burning anti-freeze
White smoke can also be unburnt fuel. The fuel was contaminated, which made the injectors get sticky and not close fast enough, injecting too much fuel, which then goes out the exhaust. The bad fuel also plugged the filter, causing the pump to run dry and fail.
@@unmountablebootvolume ok true but you cannot rule out a bad head gaskert too
@@brianrutherford3681 While you can not completely rule it out, there would be coolant missing if it were a bad head gasket, and I think these engines have low coolant sensors, so that would have set off an alarm. Anything could be broken, but we know that fuel contamination is the main issue, so that should be fixed first. Many things can cause white smoke on a diesel, from head gasket or bad turbo to bad fuel, and in this case, bad fuel is the primary issue, and has to be repaired before you can diagnose or fix any other ones, be it a flat tire or a bad head gasket. If the entire fuel system from the tank to the injectors is cleaned or replaced and it still smokes, then you have to search for further issues, but until then, bad fuel WILL make it smoke, no matter if there is something else wrong or not.
The exhaust would smell different for anti-freeze vs un-burnt fuel.
@@dsmreloader7552 truie but hew did not mention any odd smell in the exhuast
Why do you need to get the timing right on a common rail system?
Pump harmonics. Cummins says that the engine will sound like a helicopter if you don't.
3:39 3:4 5:17 2 5:26
3:13
Sounds like you have some bad fuel in the system ..that cause all sorts of problems 😯
Hey Zeth, great video!
Delete it the dpf is garbage
Isx cummins biggest piece of garbage truck engines we ever had. I imagine the equipment versions are similar, injector problems, turbo, cylinder head etc etc, I see where Deere stopped using Cummins for 2023 which does not surprise me at all
As a 19 yo boy from Serbia im amazed by your knowledge, work ethic, situation explanations etc.. Im really into "mechanics" if I can say so. You are my role model bro keep up the good work
Thank you!
Good job with the pump, and it looks like the injectors are compromised. That black smoke, and then the white smoke, indicates injectors and pump have been compromised from trash in the fuel. Suggest to the farmer install a storage tank pump fuel filter. Keep your green iron going. Please take care.👍
I hope John deere made the design for a esieyer way to change a fuel tank!
Removing the cab to get to the fuel tank is ridiculous!
Old tractors will make money and not bankrupt you from breaking down all the time.
😊👍👍🤭🤭👍👍👍
This is a fairly old mindset; with the tech that is in any new equipment these days, that being farming, construction or industrial, what matters more to most owners and operators is that when things go wrong, there's competent people to call (this is where people like ZK comes in) and that they can respond to a service call in a reasonable amount of time. Most new machines will outperform their predecessors both in fuel economy and general performance, maybe not by huge margins, but outperforming still. All while offering a much better cab and operator environment, this is where a lot of the difference lies, in a quieter, more comfortable cab you can operate for longer while experiencing less fatigue, which means a more productive machine.
If you're not dependent on your equipment every single day and make your livelihood off of them, sure, there's no reason to buy a brand new machine. However for a lot of companies and farmers, having a fleet of newer machines with service agreements is definitely beneficial.
Awesome video like always! Even if you don’t get a chance to video part 2 of this 9620 R, please just let us know at the start or end of your next video. Did you try blowing back into the fuel tank with compressed air? I have found that sometimes that has worked and then you know for sure there’s “stuff” in the fuel tank. I worked at a Versatile dealership for many years and they run Cummins engines so I am really curious what the cause of the failure was, Thanks Zeth and Take Care and that goes to Josh as well!
Too much hi tech. 😖😒
I did think this job might turn out a bit tricky. At least we have the right team putting it right. I hope you can get some footage of getting to the bottom of this engine. Should be educational. Hate think what might be in that fuel tank. Good luck and thank you for the video. Cheers from London UK
Another great vid! Good job finding the problems! Keep the deere's running
We pay a bit more for premium diesel for our equipment. We also added better and larger filters on supply tanks.
Agree, the injectors are no good. I bet there is a fungus/ dirt in the tank resulting from filling at some stage from a dirty container?
I was suspecting bad injectors dumping fuel not allowing it to build enough pressure so I was kind of right
You've got me pretty confused. You said you did some pre-diagnosis before you replaced the pump, and then later you say that you suspect bad injectors may still be causing your hard start. Pre-diagnostics would have included checking injector leakage (very easy to do on that engine). Also, if the DPF is intact, there should be no black smoke period, regardless of whether or not the injectors are faulty. Finally, if it cranks good for the first 4 seconds and then slows down, you could very well have an unwanted hydraulic load on the machine causing this. An amp clamp would quickly confirm that.
I do hope that this repair is under warranty. Because I cannot see a farmer forking out big money for this repair. 🤨
I know back around 30+ yrs ago, Deere & Co. used to have each dealership "test", repair, rebuild injectors. Then they stopped and outsourced it. I take it that Deere is still doing that or just replace injectors anymore? Very informative, I might have misdiagnosed this, because I was taught, white smoke is burnt anti-freeze. Not kept up with today's engines. Cheers :)
New subscriber could you please tell what Hrs are on the machines Thank you great videos
Thanks for subbing!
Did it have blowby? Sounded like it had a dead hole
You likely have a broken DPF, you shouldn't see any black smoke coming from the exhaust. Likely due to all the smoke it was producing with a faulty fuel system. It may be giving higher back pressure to the engine likely contributing to it running rough. I wouldn't put the new filter until the fuel system is sorted.
Did you check return flow from the rail? Rail relief valves seem to fail more offten than pumps these days. Also ANY smoke from a engine with dpf/ scr means something has failed in the aftertreatment system.
Don't know how new that tractor is. But Cummins has a recall on the high-pressure pump with the fuel pump tappets eating themselves. Which will shoot metal debris in the fuel system. An injector drain test will tell you if you have injector problems. Will need a test hose. I can get the part number if you like.
Also it was a good call on the starter. Cummins spec is 150 rpm minimum for the high-pressure prime correctly.
Thanks for sharing hope you had a great thanksgiving
You said you were going to work on the rest of fuel system I’m guessing you will also drain the fuel tank and clean it out and also how did the trash get into the fuel system to begin with
Amazing video, and good works there.
In retrospect, could the low rail pressure be caused by blockage and not a failed pump?
It's hard to see a crack in aluminum filter mount but sometimes a lot of these guys just over tighten them and then it's a b**** to get them off as well
Happy Thanksgiving. Laying hands always seems to get them to fire.
I’ve had a few of these have issues with injectors. There is a return manifold that has the return fuel for injectors, HP pump and Common rail there’s a special tool to check the injector return flow 😉👍
Interesting analysis - it's amazing about the amount of damage a tank of dirty fuel can cause. I wonder about the original source of the contamination.
Careful! JD will see you "healing" the green and probably sue you for a service violation....;)
Rail relief valve
Thanks great video
I want to watch the repairing part full
Someone should get an alien to build a tractor for the sake of reliability. Then I would get one.
please send me the serial number of the engine and tractor, because I am looking for a fuel pump in Europe quickly. I found it in John Deere but I want to compare the part numbers of Cumins and John Deere. I need the pump for Wirtgen WR 240i with a Cumins QSX CM 2250ECF engine.
Check the fuel filter mountings blocks make sure they're not cracked some of these guys over tighten the filters it might not leak fuel but may suck air into the system I seen it before with a 988G cat loader it would work good in the morning when it was minus 20 Celsius but wouldn't work when it warmed up in the afternoon
I will check that out.
Looks to be some bad fuel these computer controlled diesel engines are very very sensitive to dirty fuel filters unlike the older mechanical diesel’s they’ll run with filthy filters crap in the tank I’m not a fan of these new engies Good Luck
Hello Fendt!
Hopefully I can get to your level one day!!!
Y’all are rock stars and true professionals!
That high pressure pump is a lot easier to get to than in a otr truck chassis.
Dirty Crank shaft sensor and injectors are leaking
You need to get on quickserve my friend
Love your content, Z! Ha. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.
Same to you!
Maybe it will need rebuilt
put a FASS fuel pump on it
"Now bring the thunder"......yippity-yippity-yippity-yippity........"Bring the thunder....Please".....yippity-yippity-varrrroom".....great video.
I’m working on a deer right now with fuel problems I think my problem has a lot to do with what you just went through today
Watch the qsx injector replacement video for more action on that tractor
I now you can do it
Parts cannon.
You don’t have to pin the engine to replace that fuel pump.
Yes, but you do have to time it, as per Cummins.
@@charlesgilbert1617 I'm not familiar with Cummins but why would you have to time the HPFP? All it does is make pressure and send it to the rail.
You have pin the crank and time the gear pump in order to prevent gear train noise.
@@jasonpark1052 😂
@@dawsanmcdaniel7399what’s so funny?
Is the external hydrocarbon injector in the aftertreatment system stuck open or leaking into the exhaust? That could explain: low common rail fuel pressure, high exhaust temp when engine is warm, and white smoke when revving a cold engine.
If those exhaust temps got really high, it may be worth a look at the DPF and SCR bricks for cracking. You should be able to remove the DPF differential sensor and peak with an endoscope and a temp sensor on the SCR.
Those Cummins were the worst about fuel system debris. I’ve done 3 full swaps on 3 different 9620RX. That and the water pump.
You and Josh make a cute couple and work together well...Great Vid👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍🐄🐄
Sure hope that high-pressure pump. It’s not ceramic plungers because they probably took a s**t, and they took out the injectors and the rest of the fuel system. When you do one of those comments, high pressure pumps, you should only put the stainless steel plungers in it Grayson peace
Hey man I got a question for you if you don’t mind replying and possibly help me sort something out got a 6130d power reverser that only stays in forward and you have to cut the key off to change gears?
Hi from overseas, i was hoping you might point me in the right direction with a question i have. We own 7700 with a 19 speed powershift and it has almost a grinding noise coming from the back end , but it only does it on idle , noise goes away as soon as you give it any throthle . Its been doing it for the past couple years since we bought it used, but it seems to be getting louder. I was hooping you might give me some pointers where to start looking.
What about a pressure regulator on the ramp? This is first item i will replace. Second, look at injectors, looks like white smoke it is unburned fuel getting in combustion, not in time. Third is the pump.
👍🚜
You should try to use a go pro head mount so basically, you would have a GoPro camera on your head like a headlamp so that way you’d be able to have both your hands free so you don’t have to wrestle with the camera with one hand and wrestle with the parts with the other.😀👍
That's the problem with few farmers.
Before filling in diesel try to clear dust and leaves before opening caps for diesel tank
Sometimes patients need surgery to get things fixed up right. A simple fix is just not in the cards. Ask me how I know! 😃👍
Always enjoy your videos and tech information. I’m a outboard motor mechanic and I’m always interested to see how the big stuff works and gets repaired.. Thanks again 👍
Take the pump hat off and see if the ceramic cups came apart and blew it into the common rail. If it did your gonna need a pressure relief at minimum
To me it sounded like it had a little uneven compression when cranking. Hopefully not
Hey Zeth, nice video - as always! Greetings from Brazil. In this case, isn't worth it to try to clean the fuel system with the CleanUp solution? We use it here (dealership as well) and, in some cases, it helps a lot.
The weather in Ohio has turned cold as I'm sure it has in your location try 2 stay warm .nice video thanks
Yep she does run rough and has a miss. Id say same thing zeth watery and dirty fuel is the culprit
That has to be frustrating for sure. If ZK Master Tech can't fix it, no one can. 😮
Did you try and spray a whole bunch of ether into the engine to try to start it?😂🤡
Sounds like the good parts are the short list
Sounds like cylinder searching