Is Li-Ion better than LiPo? Testing Li-Ion packs: Lumenier NAV, Auline
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- If you want access to the full database of test data: patreon.com/chris_rosser
Check out AOS LABS for more product testing: www.aos-rc.com/aos-labs
To contact me about ESC/battery/prop/motor reviews and testing please use the form on aos-rc.com
Lumenier NAV:
www.getfpv.com/catalogsearch/...
Auline Li-Ion:
www.getfpv.com/catalogsearch/...
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:58 Bench Comparison
2:53 Constant Power Discharge Test
3:33 Battery Capacity
4:10 Energy Density
4:55 Voltage Sag
6:04 Burst testing
7:16 C Rating
8:45 Power density
9:21 Summary Scores
10:35 Outro - Наука та технологія
![ОРБАН приехал к ПУТИНУ и "отчитался" о поездке в Киев 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_0ukDovOWq8/mqdefault.jpg)
The Molicel p45b 21700 are the best you can get.
P42a 21700 and p28a 18650 are also top of the line.
You should talk about the cells used and not rebranded packs. Although some do state what cells are used.
Check out mooch battery tests. He goes into details and graphs
For the 21700 cell, what about the Samsung 50S?
yep, there are great results with molicel 6s2p and 6s3p packs in ukraine and really long range flights
I have both the 42a and B, cost per wh or mah IMO isn't worth it on the 42b for just and extra 300mah... bang for buck in 21700 category is 42a
@@pierrekinbrand50S have a little more capacity, but you cant push them as hard. I'd rather use the p42a and be able to pull out of a dive better, than fly 2min longer. 35A vs 45A
@@user-pz3oj7ql1f yeah, nkon in netherlands is saying ukraine is buying all the stock. You on 7" or more like 8 , 9 , 10" ?
Wings are better for carrying loads and long range.
Before you get too many battery videos, you need to test ESR on a quality meter (the one I have recommended twice before).
This is a single number that is directly compare between all packs, and it's an excellent way to look at health of the pack over time. Why do you ignore this, the meter is only $150.
Because he probably intends to have someone manufacture lipos with his name on it, and if he tests ESR it'll prove his lipos are junk just like his motors and frames
Esr isn’t that relevant, and there are too many factors that impact a batteries esr to ever be able to use as a comparison method. Esr is good for comparing a single pack against itself as it ages to know when it is degrading. There have been massive lipo tests such as the one by mcsguy on Rcgroups that have proven all of this. Esr does not say one pack is better then the next.
@@seanmetzger4780 I disagree, its the single most important factor for punch preformance, next comes capacity for racing and if measured correctly, it is directly relatable to its health.
I run my batteries ~1000 cycles in my quad and another !1200 in my planes, and about every 4~6 months I measure esr and capacity and log it. It clearly is directly related to preformance. How many cycles do you get out of your packs?
Regarding mcsguy testing, he is a edf guy and basically is WFO throttle the whole pack,,,,and well us quad guys dont do that type of application, and he is mostly using 5000~6000mah packs. I have talked to him about esr, and he said, most dont have a esr meter that is accurate, which is true. But I argued if done properly (same charge level and temp), they are directly comparable.
The tiny 1300 packs we use, great cells are in the 4mΩ rang and crappy are in the 6mΩ range, in a matter of seconds, this can be checked, so why not?
@@seanmetzger4780 regarding " there are too many factors that impact a batteries esr", if you dont know what your doing, correct.
Simply same SOC, I prefer my storage 3.85v/cell and temp. I just take my batteries to work, cycle them up and down to storage voltage, then let them sit to next day, 70~72F, every time. I check each cell and total pack (the later checks pack connections, wire and connector). Simple, even a monkey can do it.
@@seanmetzger4780 I disagree, its the single most important factor for punch preformance, next comes capacity for racing and if measured correctly, it is directly relatable to its health.
I run my batteries ~1000 cycles in my quad and another !1200 in my planes, and about every 4~6 months I measure esr and capacity and log it. It clearly is directly related to preformance. How many cycles do you get out of your packs?
Regarding mcsguy testing, he is a edf guy and basically is WFO throttle the whole pack,,,,and well us quad guys dont do that type of application, and he is mostly using 5000~6000mah packs. I have talked to him about esr, and he said, most dont have a esr meter that is accurate, which is true. But I argued if done properly (same charge level and temp), they are directly comparable.
The tiny 1300 packs we use, great cells are in the 4mΩ range and crappy are in the 6mΩ range, in a matter of seconds, this can be checked, so why not?
Regarding " there are too many factors that impact a batteries esr", if you dont know what your doing, correct.
Simply same SOC, I prefer my storage 3.85v/cell and temp. I just take my batteries to work, cycle them up and down to storage voltage, then let them sit to next day, 70~72F, every time. I check each cell and total pack (the later checks pack connections, wire and connector). Simple, even a monkey can do it.
It would be nice to know what 18650 or 21700 cell is being used in these packs, though I would likely guess it is the Samsung 40T for 4000mah or Samsung 30T for 30000mah.
It would be nice to see some packs using the Molicel P45B or P42A as they both have a 10C discharge rating. Its also important to note the capacities are rated with a cell discharged down to 2.5V
I have tested the P42A cells at 40A, it gets hot pretty fast, so that 40A current rating is not continuous, but fine for burst use.
Would have liked to know what cells they used for each Li-Ion pack.
li-ions are awesome for planes, since you can cruise at way less amps compared to drones.
Huh, something i never considered, having rc planes myself. I should look into this. Thanks!
This is why subscribed to this channel 👏. If u want to learn this is the channel.
Repeat this when the new Molicel P50 comes out
Also these premade packs are just a rip off. Get proper single cells 🤘🏻
i would love to see a comparision at the same(!) discharge current as you will fly them with the same setup, there is no reason the put a higher load an a bigger battery. please try to do comparisions ceteris paribus.
Thanks for being accurate and precise. 👍
I think if someone would compare very low C Lipo (10-15C) with same capacity and voltage LiIon, results would be interesting. 🤔🙂
good stuff!! need some packs for the FalconRad build--trust your full quadcopter build completion s is next AOS Falcon 7
Would really like to see testing of the Upgrade Energy Dark Lithium V2 Li-Ion packs using Molicel P42A 21700 cells.
So from my understanding auline will be good choice for 7” 6s
Nice review
Please test Molicel P45B, real game changers, I’ve pulled 200Amps out of these cells, no issues!
Really excellent testing, Chris! Thanks!!! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I would be interested to test your C rating metodology and compare LiPo battery on lipo discarge cycle (5C, 144S, 0,5C/s, 3,1V maybe 3,3V) and compare result with standard test. Ofc single cells, etc, would be cool as well. Thanks for graeat content
Can we get a dark mode for your videos?
Are you going to do a 10 inch frame? There's a hole in the market for a well engineered 10" frame and motor combo and you're the guy to do it. Should I build a hyperion or wait?
I'd love to see you test servos Chris. There's so much baseless conjecture in the fixed wing world about the quality of different brands of servos. Some proper independent scientific testing would go a long way.
are there any plans to test micro liion pack's or even micro liion cells? like sub 50g
what cells are you talking about here?
I use the Auline Li-ion 4000mAh pack with my 7" quad. The all up weight of the quad with the battery is 1.1kg. I get between 10 and 15 minutes flight time depending on conditions. At about $80 USD I'm satisfied with the battery but I was expecting a little more. Thank you for the tests. Your vids are valuable to me. Happy flying amigo.
I get 25 minutes on my 8 inch. But my quad hovers at 16% throttle so I cruise between 16-20% my amps is under 10a. usually around 8a ish. It's slow though around 15-20 mph. Also I land around 2.8v
I think that flight time is really impressive on your 8" quad. Are you using the Auline 4000mAh 6s Li-ion too? I think you're about double the flight time of my 7". I do cruise a bit faster. I can get about 56mph out of the fat old girl in angle mode and altitude hold which is how I usually fly. I am actually pretty happy with my 10-15 minute flights considering my flying style and the weight of the quad. I'm not doing flights much over a mile anyway since that is about maximum range of my VTX. It would be nice to stay aloft longer but not worth the hassle and expense of getting my 7" up to that level. Congrats on the long flight times of your 8". That's really cool. I'll check out your channel. Thanks for the correspondence. Happy flying amigo.
@Sonic_Ox yeah auline 4000. Just keeping the throttle low just passed your hover should get you close to my time.
Hi Chris, thank you for this.
So, which battery would you recommend for the AOS LR5?
This wb for above average speed crossing flight style?
Something is wrong then because I get 12 minutes with 2200mah 6s lipo on my 1.1kg 7" and I get 22 minutes with 4000mah lion.
Are li ion polymer batteries on HP laptops good? What is the difference between li ion and li ion polymer.
I can understand li polymer but what is this li ion polymer mentioned on HP website.
You should test the Upgrade Energy Dark Lithium packs. They are more powerful than regular Li-Ion packs
Has anyone ever tried combining lipo and lion in parallel with some sort of software switch to swap between them as amperage draw increases and decreases? The lipo would act as a capacitor for the lion.
Just run the packs in parallel 😂
@cinemoriahFPV so the lipo wouldn't get sucked dry by the lion during cruise?
With long range builds I’m always worried that liion packs cannot manage bursts needed sometimes, especially 6S1P packs. But in cruising it’s the best choice .
No need worry!
Just make a 6s2p. This is enough for any long range drone. For example Chimera 7 draw 20-23A at 80-90 km/h. It's normal speed for LR!
@@ali3n24yeah , 6s2p it’s 650/850gr , so it’s going to 5000mah lipo weight . With 21700 still a lot more weight/ power ratio for sure and 80amps of burst available
They will put out the power you need if it’s just the occasional emergency that needs the throttle…they just won’t do it for sustained periods like a lipo will. But if your flying 7”+ you really should fly a 6s2p li-ion pack
Hay can u make you channel 4k and update 7 inch drone with flex stack as 5 inch Plz tnx!
Auline 4000 I get 25 minutes cruising between 16-20% throttle on my 8 inch.
i use an auline pack for my goggles its pretty nice
Was need soft packed li-ion so its lighter
Thanks for this test. So far it was mostly a narrative, that long rangers on Li-Ion have less power but longer range...
2min more Range for 1/3 of the power is quite a hefty pay-off tho. I might actually sacrifice that range boost if I ever build a big guy and stick to my LiPos
Where do you get 2min more range? That’s not even close to reality.
@@seanmetzger4780 What, I'm usually 2 lightyears late!
Can you (still) buy AULINE in England.... post Brexit??
I felt like this all was going to lead up to a better conclusion. I saw very little difference between the lion cells. Didn't feel like the title of the video really got answered.
A jump cut for every sentence!
I was wrong! There are a few jump cuts mid-sentence.
I'll feedback to the editors. They are a little cut happy!
Why are we paying 70.00 for 6 18650 batteries paralleled with an xt60 tied on? We could just have a 18650 holder with an xt60, then we just buy a bunch of 18650 cells. That will be ALOT cheaper.
I really appreciate having someone doing all this testing but lately it seems your videos are about promoting certain companies. You made this video without once mentioning which actual cells were used in the pack because of course the manufacturers don't want you promoting that. It is not in your best interest to talk about the individual cells and in a video like this that is what is important.
How can he say with certainty who manufacturers the cell (i.e. LG/Samsung/etc) if it's been obfuscated by the battery pack manufacturer?
@@shadow7037932 It is usually stated by the manufacturer but even if not, it is easy to deduce by the specs. Finally, all you have to do is peel off the shrink wrap to see the cells. A good reviewer making an honest review would for sure at least mention that information.
@gregdavidd You think he should spend all this time away from his family and work he has to do to entertain you for free?! If you think he should you are not in reality and it’s awful someone would think like 2:25 that! It’s so much work to do all he does and face it products he makes or stand by are the BEST anyways….. NOTHING wrong with that. Time is money and he deserves his success
Seems many of us want to know what cells are being used. Cut them open and give us the info that should have been included off the jump.
Look forward to your pinned comment.
Maths are simple, energy density is smaller for liion then for lipo, end of story. Lipo is better for drones/planes.
LiFePo4 have the lowest energy density VS weight.
My testing shows that these Li-Ion cylindrical cells have ~25% higher energy density than the typical pouch cells used in FPV. Maybe a typo in the comment?
And stop using mah as a capacity mesuring unit, Wh is the unit to use.
Battery capacity is usally defined as "The total amount of electricity generated due to electrochemical reactions in the battery and is expressed in ampere hours." So I think Ah is the right unit to use for capacity. As you rightly point out Capacity is not the whole story and that is why I base my scoring on Energy Density which includes voltage and weight.
Wh is total energy, Ah is capacity.
You lost me when you said that li-ion had twice the capacity for the same size then showed the OUTLINE of the packs to be the same, even though the li-po is much flatter. That's like saying, "Look, this stack of 100 pennies is the same size as a dime" and showing only an overhead view. Thumbs down and OUT.
your a smart guy chris, you should know economics well enough to know that affiliate links actually do cost us, they cost everyone, that marketing cost is spread across all sales including ones not using the links, so affiliate links do infact cost all of us when people use them, not that i think there is anything wrong with that marketing, but saying it doesnt cost us anything is deliberatly ignoring reality... and just like how i really dont like bardwell all that much because of his affiliate speal, not the fact that he engages in affiliate marketing, but the way he tries to convince people it doesnt cost them anything, makes me dislike the guy, dont be that guy, just be honest, just say there are affiliate links there where you earn a commision from the sale if we use the link and there is no additional charge if you make the purchace through the link, no additional charge and doesnt cost you anything, see the difference that language can make from you being deliberatly misleading and looking like a dick, to being honest and still saying the same basic thing. on a side note, i would love to see you test individual cells, then simply report on what cells whatever brands use and what packs are suitable for flight packs, becaue the zohd liion flight packs are useless, made with sanyo 10a 3500mah cells and they get super hot and sag like a mf if you try to use it as a flight pack, the only craft i can use it with is my t28 1.2 plane that cruises at 7-9amps but i have to parellel it with my samsung 25r cells pack i diy myself, but i mostly just use it as a goggle battery, the POS was super expencive too, molicel make the best cells for flight packs and to my knowledge i dont know and manufacturer using them, but they also have lower energy density and at that point im not sure if its worth it and would love some real testing data like this, cheers
🚨Karen alert🚨 your really gonna straight up call him a dick like that? Don't you think that's a bit much? I would expect that kind of attitude to result in a permanent ban 🔨
I can't believe you typed all that without a single period or paragraph.
@@olavpettersen9465And yet still fully and completely legible. Honestly, it's rather impressive. Some people can't string ten words together without it being confusing.
@@olavpettersen9465 is a commar not a puntuation mark? im not a native english speaker so its not my stongest ability
@@christhorney You don't have periods in your language?