#89: Are You a Product of Childhood Emotional Neglect?: Erica Komisar
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- Most of us are aware that what happens to us in childhood has a huge effect on who we become as adults. But what if the opposite is also true? What if what doesn’t happen in childhood has an equal, or even greater effect?
The absence of emotional support in childhood is as damaging as other traumas. Childhood Emotional Neglect (CEN) is not a form of childhood abuse because it's subtle and usually unintentional. Rather than a direct act, it is the absence of action.
It’s inaction.
The result of a parent who’s disengaged in this way is that a child learns to ignore and hide his feelings from others, even from himself. Children in these homes learn very early in life that emotions are troublesome and inconvenient, and they take this mindset with them into their adult lives.
In contrast, children whose emotional needs are treated as important are encouraged to pay attention to their emotions and are either taught or modeled how to manage and express them. But children who experience emotional neglect are taught that their feelings don’t matter.
A child who receives this message is not consciously aware of it because it's rarely stated outright. It's a subliminal message delivered by the absence of a response from parents. But the result is that the child suppresses his emotions by pushing them away so they do not bother his parents or himself.
Years later, this same individual will continue to lack access to his emotions, which will almost certainly wreak havoc on his marriage and relationships.
Here to discuss what I believe is a prolific problem today is author and psychoanalyst Erica Komisar.
IN THIS EPISODE:
3:20 What are some signs of childhood emotional neglect?
6:20 Erica describes the different types of attachment disorders
6:50 Secure attachment is the ideal because your primary caregiver is consistently present this leads to an emotionally healthy person
9:30 Avoidant attachment disorder: Babies use this strategy to cope with the “loss” of their mothers due to physical or emotional absence. This produces trouble with connection, committing to relationships and being overly “independent."
14:00 The types of parents that may cause childhood emotional neglect: depressed parents, addicted parents, workaholic parent, the narcissistic parent and achievement focused parent
17:30 Narcissistic Personality Disorder is the hardest to treat
19:40 Alcoholism, drug addiction and eating disorders are all a result of Narcissistic Personality Disorders
22:00 Depression is connected to avoidant detachment disorder
23:30 Disorganized attachment disorder is typically the worst and relates to borderline personality disorder. These babies have no strategy and usually are a combination of all three. They are angry, emotionally erratic, paranoid, etc.
28:00 Babies know when the mothers desperately want to be with them
32:00 Many kids don’t get help and carry these things well into adulthood, Unless we get to the root of our pain, it stays with us
34:10 The mothers who raise anxious children are anxious themselves
35:00 Ambivalent mothers are resentful of their children
37:00 What is the difference between abuse and neglect?
39:00 What are the ramifications of emotional neglect on adult relationships/marriages?
41:00 Erica talks about her new book about raising resilient adolescents
47:00 Erica and Suzanne talk about anxiety
48:45 The difference bw depression and anxiety
𝗦𝗶𝗴𝗻 𝘂𝗽 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗺𝗮𝗿𝗿𝗶𝗮𝗴𝗲 𝗰𝗼𝗮𝗰𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘄𝗶𝘁𝗵 𝗦𝘂𝘇𝗮𝗻𝗻𝗲:
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𝗕𝘂𝘆 𝗦𝘂𝘇𝗮𝗻𝗻𝗲'𝘀 𝗕𝗼𝗼𝗸𝘀 𝗼𝗻 𝗔𝗺𝗮𝘇𝗼𝗻 𝗡𝗢𝗪: amzn.to/3exIEIV
One final comment. Motherhood is by far the most important vocation on the Planet! Men only derive significance to the degree that they create and defend an environment where Motherhood can thrive!!!
I suffered a lot of extreme physical and a lot of mental abuse as a child. When I gave my life to the Lord Jesus, my anger was completely removed forever. I now have a very gentle spirit and and am completely renewed. It has been almost 45 years since I hurt another man. I no longer have the raging fireball lurking at the back of my mind.
I became a follower of the Lord at 23 yrs. old; before that I looked for fights with any large male that might be a good and enjoyable fight. Sadly for the males that I picked fights with, I was a college heavy-weight wrestler and hurt badly a lot of men. I would not even pick on them unless they weighed 200 pounds and were very fit. I only wanted to hurt competent physical males.
The Lord JESUS is the great renovator of your soul. Praise the most high GOD; I now have peace in my soul.
Wow, amazing story. Sad though because I gave my life to Jesus to when I was young and the anger still lived there for years. Though it's gone now. Mostly. Why did God heal you but not me? In that timing?
I have hurt a lot of men too, in a different way. I struggle to find forgiveness.
I hope you went the distance and started keeping and teaching the commandments of God?
This is the CRUX of the single mother atmosphere today in America. I know from my relationship with my mother. When I spent every other weekend with my dad, he included me in everything that he did. My mother repeatedly said to me “I don’t care what you do, just don’t bother me or ask me for shit” my Dad included me in everything he did, to include his work. I was running his backhoe by the time I was ten. When with my mother, I had to beg rides to baseball games, dances and other events because my mother couldn’t be bothered. My mother left my Dad on her own choice, my Dad was there for me always. I was lucky enough to have an Uncle and Aunt that showed me so much love. I always hated having to stay with my mother, as I could sit in a room for hours and she wouldn’t even look at me. She told me many times that she did not like me because I was a product of my Dad and she couldn’t stand to look at me.
Unfortunately I think I resembled my carnal Father too much and this tended to exacerbate or compound the level of anger, bitterness, and resentment my mom exhibited towards me and my father.
I am familiar with this dynamic if not quite that bad. Quote that always comes to mind is "You are so much like your father I cannot stand you either." Learned very early on (like 4-5 maybe) to not poke the dragon as best as I could manage. What I think did the most damage long term, that I have never figured out how to resolve and cannot AFFORD to was never knowing what would WAKE the dragon. And never seemed to be the same thing.
I have though over the years the court was definitely wrong placing me, a male, automatically into his situation. Got suicidal at one point and boy was that a mistake. Made "issues" 1000000 times worse after that.
Only time I remember her being happy was when his checks came and the booze for her and step father was restocked or yet another pair of her shoes were stuck in my closet to never be worn.
When I tried out, once, for the only sport I ever attempted I had to wait for two years for my cousin's worn out basketball shoes. Got ZERO support, encouragement, help whatever after. Only threats if my grades dropped.
Wow. Hadn't thought about this for years now.
Was pretty much anything I wanted to do come to think about it. Anything other than being Valedictorian so they wouldn't have to pay for college. Basically Valedictorian or bust. And ZERO interest in what to go to college FOR. Was basically, Doctor or Lawyer or don't bother. Never knew what the plan for Med or Law school was supposed to be. No such thing as a "full ride" all the way through no matter how well you do. Most definitely not for a white, middle class MALE during that time period. And judging from current trends and what my son's were subjected to in the Public Indoctrination System and Teachers Union Retirement and Empowerment System has only gotten worse.
I'm so sorry for the pain and tournament you've been through.
This is really sad and not uncommon. Studies show it’s actually better for children of split families to be with their dad most of the time. If you don’t yet know, please know, it’s not you, it’s 100% her immaturity and poor mental health. Take care of yourself. ❤
Now this was SUPER helpful... childhood traumas these days are ignored for the dominant social rhetoric of victims rights, women's rights and oppression, blah, blah, blah... and yet, families are broken, divorce is at the rate of 50%, promiscuity and STD's are off the chart. The children growing up in this environment are the ones who suffer into their adult years and create more dysfunctional people. Kinda like what you see happening today.
Yes, what she is saying is true. Underlying so many of these disorders is neglect, a narcissistic "love hunger", a need that wasn't met.
Children's dysfunctional/maladaptive behaviors are mirrors into the ways they are being Parented.
I stayed away from what I perceived to be a bullying humanity after being bullied or emotionally abused as a child by a damaged Mother and a damaged and emotionally neglectful Father.
When I was called/labelled as emotionally immature at 5 years of age by a formally entitled authority figure aka a grade school teacher I grew to realize she cared not at all that I received a fair hearing from a trained child counselor only that I not disrupt her classroom by talking too much.
Fast forward 12 years later and I barely talk to anyone if I don't absolutely have to bc it seems whenever I do things rarely turned out well for me.
What I've grown to understand is that people care mostly about their own lives and have very little band-width to truly help people dealing with the deep issues of life..
The professionals seem as in the dark as the lay people?
Or counselors would reality-reframe and attempt to blame me for the aggressive actions of others against me.
Same thing with marriage "counselors and coaches". The whole "you can only change you" thing. Which, though true, is only a hair short of "blaming the victim" when you think about it in the context of his episode really.
And even if you do, should you, when the other person will just continue to think she is a "Disney Princess"?
It would be great to learn about how parents can prevent neglect in families with many children!
Great chat. I wish this was a part of a high school course.
My mom was a emotionally neglectful parent because of her upbringing. I really tried to change that yet I noticed it would rear it's ugly head now and then in my mothering.
Mothering isn't easy.
Thank you for this chat.
Suzanne ; to answer your question of " how people can keep being hurt and stay there" = there was a psychology study that was cut short YEARS ago * for good reason * that proved that if you FORCE somebody into a position that causes them pain = they scream/cry/ attempt to flee. When you CONTINUOUSLY force said pain and make escape from said pain " impossible" , the subject will eventually just sit there silently despite causing them pain = its learned behavior to not SHOW that you are in pain * because it doesnt matter/ change the outcome *
They(scientist) did the same thing with rabbits in an electrified metal cage.
The rabbits become apathetic, passive, seeming not to care that they are feeling increasing voltage through their fur while they lie in the cage doing nothing.
This sounds like my mother.
@@raularmas317 that's horrible
True.
16:50 my parents did the best they could for who they were at the time but they were stuck. I have been able to overcome the patterns of 3 generations.
yes! ❤ 💝❤
it has got to be that good old *forgiveness* and letting go of resentments; which the God of the Bible constantly urges us towards.
@@ElenaLearningForeverToInfinityamen
Forgiveness brings freedom
This woman knows her stuff, love how insightful and concise she is. I'm following her amazon page now so I'll be reminded when the new book comes out. Great interview.
Been listening for months now. This one has filled out what I have been learning about my probable BPD. Three years ago, in response to specific prayer, God showed me the root of my intractable personality issues reading Ps 131. Verse 2 hit me by a lightning bolt that mommy issues where the at the root of my irresolvable trust and relationship issues. I definitely have the type three attachment disorder: Disordered Attachment Disorder.
Incredible powerhouse interview. Thanks so much!
Suzanne, you were right to pull the punch and not say where the obvious source of increased Motherhood ambivalence comes from during the interview. Let's say it now: Feminism!!!
Ms Venker asked how someone could be in pain and not know it.
That's what 'thumb sucking' and other repetitive motion behaviors are all about--self soothing and distracting.
But long term those repeating behaviors are usually maladaptive.
For long term success we as individuals need another person we trust who is willing to make themselves emotionally available and create a safe space where our hurts can be brought out into the open aka no more secrets.
The subconscious has no sense of humor and does exactly what you tell it to do.
My father passed when I was 16, he was everything to me. My problem (I really don't consider it a problem anymore) is I have absolutely no trust in women at all. In all my years EVERY woman that has had a major impact on my life has screwed me over in some way (yes, that includes my mother) with one exception, my daughter.
Key on stoicism. I actually enjoy my alone time. If I don't depend on someone else for anything, then I won't be disappointed.
2 All-Stars together. Thanks this helps so much of us, although I do think some damage to the brain cannot be fully healed if it is decades past.
Thanks to Dr Komisar, I now know new born baby need 3 years of dedicated bonding from primary caretaker. Now I am wondering how I can sneak out some work time for myself. Erica Komisar said children will know if parents is physically there but mentally not there. But I believe there must be some good techniques on taking sometime away from the baby.
In the movie "trouble with the curve" the daughter comes to feel abandoned by the father bc he sends her to live with more distant relatives bc the Mother is deceased and he believes he cannot adequately keep his daughter safe.
The father sees sending her away as a form of protection.
The daughter sees or feels being sent away as a form of abandonment or rejection.
Seems like a lot of room for confusion in motives.
A child' s worst fear is abandonment by the parent. Safety (with the exception of abusive parents) is wherever your parents are.
Home was a very big fear trigger for me bc I associated too closely an emotionally abusive(projected anger, unearned guilt, blame for Father's neglect as her husband) Parent with home-- a very natural connection.
Dysfunctional "Home" + abusive/selfish/extremely jealous Mother(who sole identity was tied up with being a Mother) who would not allow me to try to explore relationships with females without direct punishment or implied threats of abandonment.
Thus, as a hetero- boy from the outside I appeared/was spun as a loner who had no alternative but to be devoted to my only abusive-sick Mother.
I knew enough about how lasting bitterness can creep into a person's life so I told my abusive, Codependent Parent on her death bed that she had my permission to leave this carnal world -- effectively releasing her from any further ownership or accountability of my social/emotional problems related to how she tried to raise me.
I could have let her linger for weeks or months in a vegetative state but I wanted no part of the kind of bitter hatred I imagined she lived in and with.
I can relate to the material expressed. I have read about attachment disprders it in the past, looking for answers as to why life I was and is such a huge struggle. Very much relied upon myself without knowing and shutting down emotions trying to reach a homeostasis. Now as I am in my senior years I have a much better understanding. A great show and a big thank you.
I have been to all kinds of therapy, counseling, etc. over my lifetime. This stuff is way deep and pervasive!!!
For a adult who are suffering all what she said lean On Jesus. You will be healed never too late . Gos is your primary care giver for life
I'm almost 40 and I only recently realized that I experienced both emotional neglect (from my mother) and emotional abuse (from my father). It makes so much about my life make sense. I told someone a while ago that I didn't understand why I could cry when I saw the suffering of others but felt numb when I was going through anything difficult myself. The only trait that didn't fit me was poor self-discipline. I think I coped by being ultra-disciplined. I got all of my self-worth from my accomplishments, but that self-worth was very fleeting. I'm pretty sure I was attached avoidant.
I think a whole generation is suffering with emotional neglect. We are experiencing a generation of limerent trauma bonded relationships.
This one broke me... hopefully in a good way.
I earned my masters in counseling with a focus in school counseling and of course was never taught this. I’m astounded at this research and it makes sense 1,000 fold. The mental health model paired with the educational system is void of all this information. I wish more parents knew this!
Neglect is about the lack of active participation.
Of course I am. And I need love to heal me 🤩
I now think I would have preferred being hit with a belt or hangar than all the emotional and verbal abuse I was forced to suffer bc I would have gotten hit and the physical scar would eventually heal but healing from repeated verbal-emotional abuse and understanding the consequences of disorganized attachment has eaten up it seems too much of my life.
More likely would have been both. BTDT.
Great interview! Very helpful!
Thank you for this. This has sparked a lot of good conversations in my family already.
Absolutely wonderful. Informative and fascinating conversation
I think that bc I was able to confront my emotionally abusive Parent about her emotionally dumping on me for many of the real and/or perceived offenses committed by a neglectful father and husband before she died I did not/have not experienced a lot of lasting anger towards her.
Dear MS venker, please have erica k. On again to discuss father neglect.
Thanks in advance.
My Father was spiritually and emotionally neglectful to me a middle child (I've heard the cliche, its true that's why it's a cliche).
But, he always made sure I had healthy food, good clothes, and needed vision and dental work done in a timely manner.
He did the best he could given his own difficulties with attachment figures from his past.
My mother used to say " children are like weeds, they raise themselves".
The things that happen when your a kid in your life can cause a lot of problems. If you take a kid who has great church going parents still there can be emotional damage going on that no one even understands or is aware of. Especially a kid who feels alone and different from the rest of the world and is brought up learning not to feel and his or her emotions dose not matter. On the boy side crying is weak and talking about feelings or girls or sex is just almost forbidden because it’s embarrassing or shameful. Added this kid has maybe a learning problem in school and ADHD. Then add a very stressful home life with a parent and sibling who projects all there anger at this kid. Added the kid is put down and told he or she is stupid and that your going to be sent off because something is wrong with you. In other words put down most all there life mostly at home and then not being able to accomplish anything else hardly other kids his or her age can do. Growing older to have absolutely no confidence and thinking awful thoughts about there self. To include not being able to talk to women, being very shy and just shut off. This person can have a abundance of problems in day to day life not to forget there health is going to decline as they hit there late 20’s and into the late 30’s. The crazy thing is some of these people can blend in so well with others that you would never know anything is wrong and in some cases the person themselves haven’t got a clue. After enough damage in the years to come hopefully the person will recognize there is a problem. First you have to become aware. Once you become aware you can slowly start putting the pieces of the puzzle together. It takes time, research and commitment. You have to face the truth and be willing to fight to overcome your weaknesses and problems. The answer is not in a pill. Do the research and be honest with your self. I’ve seen people carry things from there childhood all the way through there adult life and the outcome is not the best believe me this is a serious issue. It doesn’t necessary Mean someone is mentally ill in every case but they might need someone to help them become aware of what’s going on. Good talking with a trustworthy person is always a good start. If your problem is pride then you are going to have a hard time every realizing there is a problem. As far as this person’s dating and relationship/ marriage life is concerned well it’s not good at all. Usually falls apart or never happens. Hope this helps someone. Suzanne thank you and please continue to help men and women with the struggles they face from way back all the way to present.
Chruchgoing parents can cause a lot of mental health damage to children with the hellfire and brimstone stuff.
No shortage of dysfunction in the "Church" no matter what "flavor" or "savior" is ascribed to that's for certain.
Great episode
My mother described her parenting style as “Benign neglect.” I can assure you it was not benign.
The fact that we need to have experts tell us that mothers were designed to take care of their children is a major sign of cultural regression. Progressivism is when humanity actually moves forward together and thrives. But now we have so much mental illness with a lot of material junk. We completely just sacrificed our children for more convenience and luxury. Warped and selfish.
Terrorized by an older brother emotional abandonment, physical intimacy withholding, severe physical traumatic every other weekend for 4yo to 19yo, frontal lobe collapse at 2yo. Genetic Primary Psychopath. In an INFJ-T Indigo. I have spent 30/42 years existing in isolation and alone i believe that it's safe to say I have no wants or needs that requires anyone else to fill. See I have wired all my emotions to one breaker switch. I had no choice and the law of Attraction has jokes for the type of people I always attract. It's far better to exist in solitude and celibate until my final moment alive. Or claim "Not guilty by way of insanity" I realized that I have 6 learned behaviors instead of executive functions.
Suzanne speaks about attachment issues that form early in life and are never recognized or addressed by the individual "suffering" from the maladaptive behaviors, but if you are never confronted about your maladaptive behaviors then neither you nor I would think that we are anything else, but normal and healthy-- except we can't seem to maintain friendships or other long-term relationships.
So it must be their problem, because I am "so nice" to be around, right?
At 8.57 efenist and their followers are going directly for independence because that is one of their loudly, proudly, and boldly stated and overt goals/aims.
That's why the younger female followers become disenchanted with the movement bc while those women may have the car, the corner office, the expense account, and the great job they supposedly love
at the end of the day things really don't mean much if you have no one to share them with.
Emotional avoidance= u were not there for me Primary care taker so I am not going to be there for you or anyone like you.
We all are Mama ❤️.. edible mother complex..
The subconscious has no sense of humor. It does exactly what you tell it to.
This is exactly how relationships should be handled.
If you say you want to be left alone you should be left alone.
If you use ultimatums you should be prepared to accept the consequences of that ultimatum-- even if they are " negative"
I tend to think the root cause of this kind of relational pain/dysfunction is ignorance first followed by effective action-taking to resolve the anxiety.
Afraid of running out of toilet paper during covid-19.
People took effective action to buy excess toilet paper.
I literally have all of these symptoms 😅
What’s the sign say behind Suzanne? “And so together they built a life ……”
33:08 great, so afflicted people have to pay anywhere from $100 to $200+ per hour for someone to be a caring elder or just suffer through life.
So, if your family of origin was hyper-sensitive to rule following then doesn't it follow that a child from that same family is going to try to consciously put off childhood rebellion in order to keep the peace?
I messed up my two older kids. I think I was emotionally neglectful because my husband is in the military and deployed a lot and I struggle immensely with bulimia. I’m trying desperately to me emotionally present for my four-month- old 🙏🏼🙏🏼
I think Mrs.Venker means pervasiveness not prolificness.
If you or I are "chicken little" why can't we let the sky fall?
Could it be we were habituated to "do something" to try and prevent it (the sky) from falling?
Did you ever think that maybe whatever you substitute for the sky in this metaphor might actually need to fall apart?
Why let it fall apart?
So you or I can create (design and implement) something totally new that will not only work, but work potentially better than the old way of doing things???
Far far more likely that whatever would replace ANYTHING would be FAR, FAR WORSE!
The Law of unintended consequences is alive and well.
I think this is exactly why the American Framers made it VERY difficult to change the Construction.
Folks used to understand, and were TAUGHT, the wisdom of this.
Now they are taught to "burn everything down".
Perfectionist parent problems? That's a huge thing across Asia.
17:06 Some people opt out of having children because their parents were crap and they don't want to be crap. Sure, you might not like the argument, but I don't have a problem with it.
29:06 This is why people should only have children if they are genuinely motivated.
32:20 Well, good luck getting people to seek it out when the mental health industry sucks.
36:20 Okay, how do you make someone absolutely love mothering? This is just another argument I have that people who aren't 100% ready just shouldn't have kids. Also, the kinds of societies pressuring them to have kids should back off.
51:17 Well, good luck getting therapy to even work. Too many just end up with an NPC quoting motivational BS.
I don't believe you can use coercion to "make someone love mothering/nurturing.
I don't buy that parts of the brain can be damaged by neglect or other more volatile Emotions.
I believe that the brain is a biological computer that can eventually be reprogrammed but it takes time to become aware, learn and repeat healthier patterns of relating and coping to create a healthier and more dominant neural pathway to give yourself another option besides the maladaptive behavior learned and practiced in childhood.
That is essentially what she is saying therapy is FOR, dude.
I bet her hourly rate reflects this as well.
Would LOVE someone to finally do some research connecting all this psychological baggage and damage to health and subsequent economic outcomes so the Health Insurance Mafia would finally have to acknowledge Mental Health IS Health.
At 30.00 it sounds like the doctor is talking about "attunement"-- something only a self-aware conscious, empathetic Parent can be otherwise what often happens is in Western Culture male babies are given or forced to accept the emotionally absent or poor Mother's message "your feelings are toxic/unwanted and their expression is not O.K.
The results are hyper-aggressive children with often hair-triggers aka hypersensitive with little or no thought of others.
It's not simple pain...
Agony, Anguish, Dispair, Self Torment and the overall worst is Nothingness. Master Emotional Literacy and Micro Expressions for 15+ years of MATURITY. Stop texting...
Apparently Mrs. Venker doesn't hate overused words that much or else she wouldn't keep repeating in so many of her videos the same tired phrase "at the end of the day", nes pas?
I think it's called a hackneyed expression.
Erica Komisar doesn't know everything.
Her use of the word ambivalent was wrong in my opinion and could be confusing to others.
Being ambivalent means you've got mixed feelings about having or wanting kids.
A human is fully capable of mentally holding two opposing ideas in mind at the same time, thus mixed feelings can be perfectly normal.
Thus, a parent can both resent having to pay so much attention to a dependent child while at the same time worry that she is not doing enough to maintain that child in a healthy state.
Nobody w/o Christ is in their right mind.