With the renewed interest in kicad as eagle cad gets sucked into autodesk, and given this vlog is almost FIVE years old, it would be great if mr eevblog would do this again today with the latest kicad build...
@Mai Mariarti Dunno, people on kicad IRC (freenode) always helped me. And even the bugs reported to launchpad were taken care of... Maybe you should make constructive suggestions and form them into realistic issues in bugtracker, rather than be complainin on forum.
was using Altium for some time, then I done some small stuff with KiCAD and now I am using it all the time :). It's simplicity that got me, I don't need al the functions from Altium, and KiCAD works on Linux too.
So far I'm liking this. I used EagleCad many years ago and found I was limited with the eval version. Back then I think it was over a thousand dollars to purchase. After a few tutorials on UA-cam I've found it to be as useful as Eagle. I saw a guy below saw there's too many mouse-clicks to get the job done but that couldn't be further from the truth. Hotkeys make the process so much easier and faster. Of course I'm just starting out all over again and haven't tried all of the features. As it all comes back to me I like it more and more. Very useful and great price. Perfect for a hobbyist like me.
In the Ubuntu 14.04.3 LTS repository the following instructions should give you the ability to pan around with just the mouse and the middle mouse button. This method should also work with modern Windows as well. Using the menu to to Preferences > Options > General Options tab. There should be an option to use the middle mouse button to pan. The default is for it not checked, but just click on the check box to enable it, and then click OK to save the setting. You should now be able to pan around, left, right, up and down by clicking and holding the middle mouse button. Beginners should find Kicad the best choice to start out with unless you have a specific need or cost is just not an issue.. Eagle does provide a "free" but very limited starter version. The nice thing about Kicad being open source it gives you access to the source code and if required you can hack it to your liking if it is missing a feature you need. As Dave has repeatedly advised, put aside all opinions and recommendations no matter how expert the person giving the advice, you should evaluate your own needs, and do your homework and get the solution for you. This video is getting a bit long in the tooth, but this is still an excellent video to watch if you are considering getting into using electronic CAD software.
As a kicad user, it's quite interesting to see this myself. Huh, weird that it's slow moving the part. Never seen it do that before. Just a couple notes: "CvPcb (components to modules)" is not the library editor, it's where one assigns footprints to parts. The library editor can be accessed via the button to the right of the "Navigate Schematic Hierarchy" button.
I recently spoke with an Altium rep at the DesignWest 2013 conference and he said Altium currently offers a special large discount on individual lic for consultants, and is working on offering a new, special version in the very near future (this year) for small business/entrepreneurs.
@Psychlist1972 The error was actually because the current project does not have a schematic, but KiCAD tried opening a file file that does not exist. It is seems to be there to alert you that there is something wrong, or you are just starting out.
My concern that I was bugging the EDA industry folks with is that I want a version that I can promote with students so they can learn the user interface of a professional design suite AND still be able to afford to purchase their own lic for small business/entrepreneur projects if they do not end up going to work for a large company with the 2~5k$ software.
Hey Dave, do you think that you could give us your updated impressions on KiCAD? Im recently returning to circuit design and I was wondering how KiCAD had improved over the years. Looking at their site now, they seem to have (on some rudimentary levels) caught up with Eagle from when I last used it.
I use KiCAD for personal projects (and Altium for work). KiCad's schematic capture is nice, the pcb layout is ok once you understand what is going on, but the schematic library editing and especially the pcb component editing need work! I think my next programming task is to implement the JP keyboard shortcut in the pcb editor :D
I had to export to Clipboard when I needed to print a schematic yesterday (just kept giving an error when I tried to print directly). Pasted into an imaging application and printed from there. I would try the center mouse button to pan. That’s how most other applications work where the scroll wheel defaults to something else
I think I discovered one of Dave's biggest secrets: He OWNS a time machine! Look @ 12:33, Date: 5 mar 2012, but look at the date when the clip was published: Mar 4, 2012. AHA!
I looked around on the web and i was stunned of it's funcionality and features (not rocketphysik stuff but "nice to have" stuff). I was an OrCAD user and made some projects with eagle. I have to say that the OrCAD is not any better on the first view than the KiCAD. The licence of my OrCAD thing was about 15'000.- CHF wich is bit more in $. Eagle is very nice for very small projects because it's free IF YOU WANT TO USE ONLY 2 LAYERS AND SMALL SIZED PCB. At least I will surely give KiCAD a try!
Cool video, thoroughly enjoyed it, you definitely saved me some fumfering around whenever I get around to messing with this. Any plans do do a similar video for the pushing the schematic to the PCB layout & Routing side? I love your work, keep it coming.
That global port is similar function that in many editor uses "Offset" which is just a box where is printed offset name and if somewhere else is same offcet box they are connected.
Very concise 45-min first-time thru review! I have a very good feel for what to expect now should I download KiCAD and give a try! BTW, currently a paying Eagle customer with version 4 or 5 I think + the Autorouter ...
@EEVblog About the slow re-draw, apparently new versions of Windows have caused the library KiCad uses for GUI drawing (wxWindows) to be slow. Apparently there is a workaround though: Checking off "Disable desktop composition" in the compatibility options for the shortcut to KiCad
as of 2017 KiCad is a beast now! I have not touched my eagle licensed software in ages and do not plan on it. Eagle even has you pay for the 3d viewer lol
One way to import a "rare" component from Altium, is to use a converter (I guess there is one from Microchip site?) to Eagle, then, execute a script from inside Eagle to export to KiCAD. SparkFun have their library exported also to KiCAD. Unfortunately, I can't post links... This is a reason to keep also Eagle 5.x on your (linux) computer (does not matter if is in limited mode, it works for conversions). Of course, you can create them, but who have the required patience?
@funlw65 Thanks for the advice! Will check those out and have a play. The prospect of a steep learning curve doesn't really bother me that much - if I can get a nice, neat and functional single sided layout out of it, I'll be quite happy. I'm not making anything particularly complicated at the moment anyway :-)
i have watched so many of your videos. I need a bit of advice. I drew a schematic and then made the printed circuit board layout in Kicad. Then I modified and added more parts to the schematic. How do I now add these to the printed circuit board layout? Thanks in advance.
Dear Dave. Maybe it's time for a revisit of KiCAD, don't you think? I know there are a couple of videos in which you cover its usability but what about a new perspective from the point of view you had 6 years ago? Cheers!
When you do an update, as others have suggested, please either download the installation file outside the video or get a better connection. I had your download speed when I was using a 56K6 modem. Why is it so slow over there? Do you live somewhere in the bush?
When you want to make a video like this, make sure you know the program before you start. Now you just make a fool of yourself. A good way to start would: RTFM.
I would also like to improve file naming conventions and how components are copied between one library and another. As-is KiCad naming convention is not necessarily intuitive so it's hard to identify what files you need to place under version control until you look up the names of files online. It's also fairly tedious to import/export library modules to the point I just open up the files and copy them over with a text editor (KiCad's format is ascii text which is nice!)
@BulletMagnet83 Definitely, not KiCAD. Try TinyCad + FreePCB. Then, when you got enough experience and you have to do large and complex designs, and need to generate excellent production files, return to KiCAD.
The current running through the wire is 1A. Ignoring units (which we can do because SI is sane), V=IR and P=I²R, so V=P=R. You would, of course, get different results at a different current.
How would you guys recommend this for a complete beginner who doesn't know any better? I'm looking at making the transition from strip/matrix board to home-etched PCBs sooner or later, and am reluctant to spend money on software until I've had a bit of practice and experience.
Dave which program do you recommend for circuit simulation (Spice Simulator). I have been using Proteus VSM in engineering school but have reached some of its limitations at the professional level. Which tool do you recommend?
Will you explore the other parts of the program, too? Although you just learned everything along the way, it was still an interesting watch and I would like to see more of KiCAD or maybe also Altium Designer.
Wait Dave, the more you mess with it you'll get really annoyed with some of the programs' quirks! Definitely hobby grade stuff for folks that don't want or can't afford the big iron from the major players. So it's a good thing I suppose...and much better than Eagle. To this day I wish Altium would make an updated hobby/diy user priced version of old Circuitmaker program from Protel. That thing was brilliant back in the day. Most user friendly GUI I've ever used without question!
Been a while since I've laid some PCBs. Just doing some hobby stuff. Would you recommend this program over FreePCB, ExpressPCB, Eagle, DipTrace and DesignSpark. I've used Protel products (Since the days of Edit/Plot in the red boxes, user number was in the 2 digit area). Have owned Edit, Protel for Windows, Protel 3, Protel98, Protel99SE. Cannot afford jump to Altrium. Have to do something, autorouter for Protel98 and 99SE doesn't work in XP/above. It just stops when you start it.
I tried using the sch editor. It sucks still, you have to use arrow keys or scroll bars to go up and down, making your own components the program crashes, it doesn't have components like NE555
@ampdoctor How can it be "hobby grade stuff" and at the same time be "much better than eagle" that costs $1000? Yes, Altium are idiots, they will not listen to their customers.
Not too much different than the NI multisim I've used. A hell of a lot more intuitive than some of the other free software I've tried and discarded almost immediately.
@BulletMagnet83 If you're green as grass to the world of EDA software there's no getting around a fairly steep learning curve at first. All I can recommend is to download this thing and fiddle with it. If you just want to be able to generate pcb's check out some of the free software by the various pcb houses. Haven't messed with it in a long time but 4pcb's pcb artist wasn't too bad. no sim capabilities though. Just download a few different ones and get your hands dirty.
@EEVblog when I said hobby grade I mean to say it doesn't play nice with files or formats from the majors. a little soft on features. it's got little quirks like the redraw problem. UI can be a bit clumsy and disorganized at times. Lots of little things that keep it second tier. As to price vs capabilities it's hard to beat. Great for small businesses or hobby guys that need schematics and gerbers for projects. Maybe not so good if your a larger company that needs cross-compatibility.
for pan try middle mouse click and drag, at least Multisym and Proteus ISIS operate like this ... Splan too, for rotate Proteus ISIS use "+" and "-" to rotate elements (i use isis for 10+ years and it is the best for me ever) and i tryed a lot
Yes that drag thing I miss so much in eagle, I hate the cut -> give green light and then enter your lib and paste the component or some weard commandline copy component to another library. Why the fuck they do not just allow component dragging in the library browser...
22:58 - no shame in taking time to figure something out, especially something that seems.... well... not-so-intuitive, to me. (Granted, I don't have the years of experience as a PCB designer that you have.) I hope this has gotten better over the years, and/or will continue to.
DIY projects are chump change. you have to see the bigger picture. One large client signing contracts for licenses & training with EDA soft company would cut cost for both companies and provide solutions that save time on the long run for the client company. On the other hand, Kicad is not user friendly, the user interface is just not built around the theory of a graphic user interface like microsoft has accustomed its clients to the use of a terminal (screen and keyboard). User friendly Costs.
After using TinyCAD almost since the beginning and trying Kicad's schematic capture part, I can tell you Kicad is clunky, to be kind. Tiny is so much more a well thought out UI. You can do so much more with just the mouse. Some big things are missing in kicad , like traces that stick and stretch when you move parts. You can't edit trace segments either. Its so primitive in comparison. I think I will go back to the Tinycad-freepcb chain I was using. And check back in a year or so and see if they have lined up the UI with industry stds. Like panning by holding down the right mouse button, instead of some dumb key combo. Or worse, trying to hold down the mouse wheel, move the mouse and not move the wheel. Disappointing....
TBH there's no real standard in CAD programmes like there is in spreadsheets etc... To get real work done you have to just get used to the idiosyncrasies of the tool your using and learn it's particular keyboard shortcuts. I've never used TinyCAD but Eagle is just as clunky and relies just as much on weird keyboard combinations... "Some big things are missing in kicad , like traces that stick and stretch when you move parts" That's not missing at all.
Mechanical Menace Strange, every time I moved a part the wires stayed put. No snap and stretch at all. Also I couldn't move wire segments without breaking them. I will revisit this in a couple weeks when I swing back to schematic capture, I will try KiCAD again. The current work is going to stay in TinyCAD-FreePCB.
Actually connecting wires can be a serious pain in the butt until you get used to it. It's easy to think you have when they just look like they have :( It's awkward to get used to, but I've found that with almost every CAD programme, especially 3D ones. And you really do have to Read The Friendly Manual or find a good tutorial to get going unfortunately. But for free it's bloody powerful. Swings and roundabouts I'm afraid. If TinyCAD works for you then use it, if this doesn't don't. The best tool for the job is the one you get good results from.
mweverett There is a different command ("Drag", hotkey G, or press Tab when selecting several parts) for moving parts with connections attached. It isn't smart enough to refactor the connections to go around other parts or even stay 90 degrees, but it will keep the connection. And if you only need to move horizontally or vertically, you can drag with the vertical/horizontal wires and it'll still look neat.
Anything is better than EAGLE :-) KiCAD looks nice and I think it's quite usable, but I don't like that GUI and overall conception. I think DipTrace is currently the best. Limited version is free and if you outgrow that limits, you can buy a basic license for a price of DMM. And if you upgrade again, you have to pay only the diff. between your current and the new license. Btw. check prices - even much lower than for EAGLE - overpriced piece of sh... . EAGLE stucks somewhere in 90's.
So I always wonder to myself when watching a video like this how many viewers are flooding this sourceforge download page over the next few days. I would freak out if any of my content spiked like that haha.
With the renewed interest in kicad as eagle cad gets sucked into autodesk, and given this vlog is almost FIVE years old, it would be great if mr eevblog would do this again today with the latest kicad build...
Up voting this comment
How about a redo sometime in the future? KiCad has really improved in recent years with the CERN support.
Can you post it here?
@Mai Mariarti
@Mai Mariarti Dunno, people on kicad IRC (freenode) always helped me. And even the bugs reported to launchpad were taken care of... Maybe you should make constructive suggestions and form them into realistic issues in bugtracker, rather than be complainin on forum.
KiCAD still sucks! Terrible UI.
was using Altium for some time, then I done some small stuff with KiCAD and now I am using it all the time :). It's simplicity that got me, I don't need al the functions from Altium, and KiCAD works on Linux too.
Denis Leskovar thanks for your opinions on Altium and KiCad. I will check out KiCad.
Free software :) But honestly I would prefer to use Eagle. Have you tried gEda since then?
barf, eagle. I hope you've moved away from them after their recent debacle. DipTrace is where it's at.
Can you make a detailed review to the latest KiCad? Please! Get latest build our wait for Release Candidate, whatever.
Thanks in advance!
Pan by holding down the middle-mouse-button(scrollwheel) and drag!!!
I was just screaming that at my screen. I don't think he heard me.
theotheroneification he couldn't hear you over the rattlesnakes nd 'roo's
The other way is to zoom out and then zoom in where you want to go. Much like you would move your head around a large board.
So far I'm liking this. I used EagleCad many years ago and found I was limited with the eval version. Back then I think it was over a thousand dollars to purchase. After a few tutorials on UA-cam I've found it to be as useful as Eagle. I saw a guy below saw there's too many mouse-clicks to get the job done but that couldn't be further from the truth. Hotkeys make the process so much easier and faster. Of course I'm just starting out all over again and haven't tried all of the features. As it all comes back to me I like it more and more. Very useful and great price. Perfect for a hobbyist like me.
middle button....
Exactly what I was gonna say.
Middle mouse is pretty standard in many cad programs
You can pan using Ctrl and Shift + mouse wheel or by middle click if enabled in the settings.
In the Ubuntu 14.04.3 LTS repository the following instructions should give you the ability to pan around with just the mouse and the middle mouse button. This method should also work with modern Windows as well.
Using the menu to to Preferences > Options > General Options tab. There should be an option to use the middle mouse button to pan. The default is for it not checked, but just click on the check box to enable it, and then click OK to save the setting. You should now be able to pan around, left, right, up and down by clicking and holding the middle mouse button.
Beginners should find Kicad the best choice to start out with unless you have a specific need or cost is just not an issue.. Eagle does provide a "free" but very limited starter version. The nice thing about Kicad being open source it gives you access to the source code and if required you can hack it to your liking if it is missing a feature you need. As Dave has repeatedly advised, put aside all opinions and recommendations no matter how expert the person giving the advice, you should evaluate your own needs, and do your homework and get the solution for you.
This video is getting a bit long in the tooth, but this is still an excellent video to watch if you are considering getting into using electronic CAD software.
oh I completely forgot to say: this blog ist best on youtube! greetings from swiss
I really enjoy watching your channel. Not sure what’s your nationality but your Aussie accent and expression that make me learn and laugh. Thank you.
As a kicad user, it's quite interesting to see this myself. Huh, weird that it's slow moving the part. Never seen it do that before.
Just a couple notes: "CvPcb (components to modules)" is not the library editor, it's where one assigns footprints to parts. The library editor can be accessed via the button to the right of the "Navigate Schematic Hierarchy" button.
I recently spoke with an Altium rep at the DesignWest 2013 conference and he said Altium currently offers a special large discount on individual lic for consultants, and is working on offering a new, special version in the very near future (this year) for small business/entrepreneurs.
I don't always draw wires and buses in any direction, but when I do, it's useful to have a tool for it.
@Psychlist1972 The error was actually because the current project does not have a schematic, but KiCAD tried opening a file file that does not exist. It is seems to be there to alert you that there is something wrong, or you are just starting out.
Funny how this blind tear though KiCad taught me more than a paid course I KiCad that I unfortunately enrolled in.
What course? Contextual Electronics?
So that's what it's like to be Dave. 45 unread Google and UA-cam messages. :P
Oh also, just to note, you don't need Wings3d for the 3d preview, that works on it's own. Only for the editing/creation of 3d models for a library.
In KiCAD doing this will zoom the view to the selected area. However, clicking the middle button/scroll wheel will centre the view on the cursor.
My concern that I was bugging the EDA industry folks with is that I want a version that I can promote with students so they can learn the user interface of a professional design suite AND still be able to afford to purchase their own lic for small business/entrepreneur projects if they do not end up going to work for a large company with the 2~5k$ software.
I suspect you should do a refresh. :-) I was just using it this weekend for some layout work and it was pretty easy to use.
Hey Dave, do you think that you could give us your updated impressions on KiCAD?
Im recently returning to circuit design and I was wondering how KiCAD had improved over the years. Looking at their site now, they seem to have (on some rudimentary levels) caught up with Eagle from when I last used it.
I'm impressed II don't see anything really objectionable and KiKad looks a lot better coordinated than other tools I've used. Thanks for the demo
I used Kicad recently and it was EASY for a beginner. It is a nice product now. Have a revisit ?
I use KiCAD for personal projects (and Altium for work). KiCad's schematic capture is nice, the pcb layout is ok once you understand what is going on, but the schematic library editing and especially the pcb component editing need work! I think my next programming task is to implement the JP keyboard shortcut in the pcb editor :D
I had to export to Clipboard when I needed to print a schematic yesterday (just kept giving an error when I tried to print directly). Pasted into an imaging application and printed from there. I would try the center mouse button to pan. That’s how most other applications work where the scroll wheel defaults to something else
I think I discovered one of Dave's biggest secrets: He OWNS a time machine! Look @ 12:33, Date: 5 mar 2012, but look at the date when the clip was published: Mar 4, 2012. AHA!
I'd love to see a redo. KiCad has come a long way.
@EEVblog by any chance, will you make another review of Kicad when version 5.0 comes out? I'll love to know your opinions on the new version.
after using eagle professionally, i attempted to use kicad at home... and decided to just grab the student/hobbyist version of eagle instead.
schematic power supply variable
I looked around on the web and i was stunned of it's funcionality and features (not rocketphysik stuff but "nice to have" stuff). I was an OrCAD user and made some projects with eagle. I have to say that the OrCAD is not any better on the first view than the KiCAD. The licence of my OrCAD thing was about 15'000.- CHF wich is bit more in $. Eagle is very nice for very small projects because it's free IF YOU WANT TO USE ONLY 2 LAYERS AND SMALL SIZED PCB. At least I will surely give KiCAD a try!
Wonderful video...Thank you very much.
Cool video, thoroughly enjoyed it, you definitely saved me some fumfering around whenever I get around to messing with this. Any plans do do a similar video for the pushing the schematic to the PCB layout & Routing side?
I love your work, keep it coming.
That global port is similar function that in many editor uses "Offset" which is just a box where is printed offset name and if somewhere else is same offcet box they are connected.
personally i think kicad is way better, but i still use eagle sometimes since its easier to find premade libraries for eagle
Very concise 45-min first-time thru review! I have a very good feel for what to expect now should I download KiCAD and give a try! BTW, currently a paying Eagle customer with version 4 or 5 I think + the Autorouter ...
How do I set the parameters so that I don't have to keep changing the size of the vias and track widths when I add a new ones?
@EEVblog About the slow re-draw, apparently new versions of Windows have caused the library KiCad uses for GUI drawing (wxWindows) to be slow. Apparently there is a workaround though: Checking off "Disable desktop composition" in the compatibility options for the shortcut to KiCad
Hi Dave, I think you should have a look at the current kicad state. It has changed a lot.
as of 2017 KiCad is a beast now! I have not touched my eagle licensed software in ages and do not plan on it. Eagle even has you pay for the 3d viewer lol
Dave how does solder mask and/silkscreening affect heat dissipation of power traces on outer surfaces?
One way to import a "rare" component from Altium, is to use a converter (I guess there is one from Microchip site?) to Eagle, then, execute a script from inside Eagle to export to KiCAD. SparkFun have their library exported also to KiCAD. Unfortunately, I can't post links...
This is a reason to keep also Eagle 5.x on your (linux) computer (does not matter if is in limited mode, it works for conversions).
Of course, you can create them, but who have the required patience?
I paused the video to go looking in the comments to see if anyone offered a solution. Good to know. Thanks.
@funlw65 Thanks for the advice! Will check those out and have a play. The prospect of a steep learning curve doesn't really bother me that much - if I can get a nice, neat and functional single sided layout out of it, I'll be quite happy. I'm not making anything particularly complicated at the moment anyway :-)
i have watched so many of your videos. I need a bit of advice. I drew a schematic and then made the printed circuit board layout in Kicad. Then I modified and added more parts to the schematic. How do I now add these to the printed circuit board layout? Thanks in advance.
Dear Dave. Maybe it's time for a revisit of KiCAD, don't you think? I know there are a couple of videos in which you cover its usability but what about a new perspective from the point of view you had 6 years ago? Cheers!
When you do an update, as others have suggested, please either download the installation file outside the video or get a better connection. I had your download speed when I was using a 56K6 modem. Why is it so slow over there? Do you live somewhere in the bush?
When you want to make a video like this, make sure you know the program before you start. Now you just make a fool of yourself. A good way to start would: RTFM.
I would also like to improve file naming conventions and how components are copied between one library and another. As-is KiCad naming convention is not necessarily intuitive so it's hard to identify what files you need to place under version control until you look up the names of files online. It's also fairly tedious to import/export library modules to the point I just open up the files and copy them over with a text editor (KiCad's format is ascii text which is nice!)
Do you like KiCAD? Me yes. It's intuitive and seems to have all you may primarily need.
@MassimoC86 actually they don't. I think it's just used for pcb design for some reason? Not sure.
@BulletMagnet83 Definitely, not KiCAD. Try TinyCad + FreePCB. Then, when you got enough experience and you have to do large and complex designs, and need to generate excellent production files, return to KiCAD.
Under "Tracks Characteristics", why are 'Resistance', 'Voltage Drop' and 'Loss' all the same numerical value? (8:43)
The current running through the wire is 1A. Ignoring units (which we can do because SI is sane), V=IR and P=I²R, so V=P=R. You would, of course, get different results at a different current.
Why are there not IEC logic symbol avaailable or not standard ?
There is a free version of Eagle.
@SajjadBro I've used Altium/Protel for 20+ years, but I also worked at Altium for 4 years.
How would you guys recommend this for a complete beginner who doesn't know any better? I'm looking at making the transition from strip/matrix board to home-etched PCBs sooner or later, and am reluctant to spend money on software until I've had a bit of practice and experience.
@piranha32 You can, however, open kicad's PCBs in kicadocaml, which does have push routing.
Dave which program do you recommend for circuit simulation (Spice Simulator). I have been using Proteus VSM in engineering school but have reached some of its limitations at the professional level. Which tool do you recommend?
@orbiter8 Interesting. A horribly inefficient re-draw routine perhaps?
Will you explore the other parts of the program, too? Although you just learned everything along the way, it was still an interesting watch and I would like to see more of KiCAD or maybe also Altium Designer.
To pan try and use control scroll wheel. Or shift/alt
Great video dave! Thanks :)
Hey Dave, are you going to do a followup video on like PCB routing? I would love that!
how can I get a new schematic sheet .I f my schematic capture needed more than one sheet? pls help me....i am unable to find
Wait Dave, the more you mess with it you'll get really annoyed with some of the programs' quirks! Definitely hobby grade stuff for folks that don't want or can't afford the big iron from the major players. So it's a good thing I suppose...and much better than Eagle. To this day I wish Altium would make an updated hobby/diy user priced version of old Circuitmaker program from Protel. That thing was brilliant back in the day. Most user friendly GUI I've ever used without question!
Been a while since I've laid some PCBs. Just doing some hobby stuff. Would you recommend this program over FreePCB, ExpressPCB, Eagle, DipTrace and DesignSpark.
I've used Protel products (Since the days of Edit/Plot in the red boxes, user number was in the 2 digit area). Have owned Edit, Protel for Windows, Protel 3, Protel98, Protel99SE. Cannot afford jump to Altrium. Have to do something, autorouter for Protel98 and 99SE doesn't work in XP/above. It just stops when you start it.
Hey Dave,I have a copy of KiCAD 2013 do you need it?
I tried using the sch editor.
It sucks still, you have to use arrow keys or scroll bars to go up and down, making your own components the program crashes, it doesn't have components like NE555
shift + mouse wheel = pan up and down.
ctrl + mouse wheel = mouse left and right
@ampdoctor How can it be "hobby grade stuff" and at the same time be "much better than eagle" that costs $1000?
Yes, Altium are idiots, they will not listen to their customers.
Not too much different than the NI multisim I've used. A hell of a lot more intuitive than some of the other free software I've tried and discarded almost immediately.
@BulletMagnet83 If you're green as grass to the world of EDA software there's no getting around a fairly steep learning curve at first. All I can recommend is to download this thing and fiddle with it. If you just want to be able to generate pcb's check out some of the free software by the various pcb houses. Haven't messed with it in a long time but 4pcb's pcb artist wasn't too bad. no sim capabilities though. Just download a few different ones and get your hands dirty.
Next video, the pcb editor ?
I tried KiCAD. Notice the past tense.
FYI they have versions for Linux and Mac.
what Internet you hew in Australia ?damn.. downloading 49mb so long
@EEVblog when I said hobby grade I mean to say it doesn't play nice with files or formats from the majors. a little soft on features. it's got little quirks like the redraw problem. UI can be a bit clumsy and disorganized at times. Lots of little things that keep it second tier. As to price vs capabilities it's hard to beat. Great for small businesses or hobby guys that need schematics and gerbers for projects. Maybe not so good if your a larger company that needs cross-compatibility.
Wait... did Dave really call it a "coma" separated list?
for pan try middle mouse click and drag, at least Multisym and Proteus ISIS operate like this ... Splan too, for rotate Proteus ISIS use "+" and "-" to rotate elements (i use isis for 10+ years and it is the best for me ever) and i tryed a lot
that redraw loop must be immensly inefficient.
Yes that drag thing I miss so much in eagle, I hate the cut -> give green light and then enter your lib and paste the component or some weard commandline copy component to another library. Why the fuck they do not just allow component dragging in the library browser...
22:58 - no shame in taking time to figure something out, especially something that seems.... well... not-so-intuitive, to me. (Granted, I don't have the years of experience as a PCB designer that you have.)
I hope this has gotten better over the years, and/or will continue to.
i like you so much for your work here
"quick screen capture" 45 minute video. hehehe
DIY projects are chump change. you have to see the bigger picture. One large client signing contracts for licenses & training with EDA soft company would cut cost for both companies and provide solutions that save time on the long run for the client company. On the other hand, Kicad is not user friendly, the user interface is just not built around the theory of a graphic user interface like microsoft has accustomed its clients to the use of a terminal (screen and keyboard). User friendly Costs.
20 years married to altium, now on a date with KiCad....... i'm 21mins into it and nothing dirty yet...... :)
@theCpuBuilder Kicad should run on Linux and Mac too!
After using TinyCAD almost since the beginning and trying Kicad's schematic capture part, I can tell you Kicad is clunky, to be kind. Tiny is so much more a well thought out UI. You can do so much more with just the mouse. Some big things are missing in kicad , like traces that stick and stretch when you move parts. You can't edit trace segments either. Its so primitive in comparison. I think I will go back to the Tinycad-freepcb chain I was using. And check back in a year or so and see if they have lined up the UI with industry stds. Like panning by holding down the right mouse button, instead of some dumb key combo. Or worse, trying to hold down the mouse wheel, move the mouse and not move the wheel. Disappointing....
TBH there's no real standard in CAD programmes like there is in spreadsheets etc... To get real work done you have to just get used to the idiosyncrasies of the tool your using and learn it's particular keyboard shortcuts. I've never used TinyCAD but Eagle is just as clunky and relies just as much on weird keyboard combinations...
"Some big things are missing in kicad , like traces that stick and stretch when you move parts"
That's not missing at all.
Mechanical Menace
Strange, every time I moved a part the wires stayed put. No snap and stretch at all. Also I couldn't move wire segments without breaking them. I will revisit this in a couple weeks when I swing back to schematic capture, I will try KiCAD again. The current work is going to stay in TinyCAD-FreePCB.
Actually connecting wires can be a serious pain in the butt until you get used to it. It's easy to think you have when they just look like they have :(
It's awkward to get used to, but I've found that with almost every CAD programme, especially 3D ones. And you really do have to Read The Friendly Manual or find a good tutorial to get going unfortunately. But for free it's bloody powerful. Swings and roundabouts I'm afraid.
If TinyCAD works for you then use it, if this doesn't don't. The best tool for the job is the one you get good results from.
mweverett There is a different command ("Drag", hotkey G, or press Tab when selecting several parts) for moving parts with connections attached. It isn't smart enough to refactor the connections to go around other parts or even stay 90 degrees, but it will keep the connection. And if you only need to move horizontally or vertically, you can drag with the vertical/horizontal wires and it'll still look neat.
Anything is better than EAGLE :-) KiCAD looks nice and I think it's quite usable, but I don't like that GUI and overall conception. I think DipTrace is currently the best. Limited version is free and if you outgrow that limits, you can buy a basic license for a price of DMM. And if you upgrade again, you have to pay only the diff. between your current and the new license.
Btw. check prices - even much lower than for EAGLE - overpriced piece of sh... . EAGLE stucks somewhere in 90's.
What are u happy with? its a free app and a damn good one at that. try the tutorials
Watching in 2020; the latest Windows 64 version is a whopping gigabyte!
@ChrisMP1 Doh!
@The123jeffrey OMG! OMG! OMG! Dave spoke to you! AAAAHHHH! *faint*
So I always wonder to myself when watching a video like this how many viewers are flooding this sourceforge download page over the next few days. I would freak out if any of my content spiked like that haha.
If it's open source you better believe they include everything hahah including the pdf's ;)
man ur internet is slooow
@The123jeffrey HI!
Mils is short for milli - inches. Great source of errors for newbies.
You'd think they could just say thou...
one could say, rtfm :D
If I could subscribe 10k times to your channel i would!!! :) Your great! :)