The ultimate guide to JTBD | Bob Moesta (co-creator of the framework)
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- Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
- Bob Moesta is the co-creator of the Jobs To Be Done (JTBD) framework, a close collaborator of Clay Christensen, and CEO and founder of The Re-Wired Group. He has helped launch more than 3,500 new products, services, and businesses and built and sold several startups himself. He is also a fellow at the Clayton Christensen Institute and a guest lecturer at the Harvard Business School, MIT Sloan School of Entrepreneurship, and Northwestern University’s Kellogg School of Management. In this episode, we discuss:
• What Snickers and Milky Way can teach us about JTBD
• The various flavors of the JTBD framework
• Best practices for implementing the framework
• Advice on conducting interviews for B2B vs. B2C customers
• Common mistakes people make when implementing JTBD
• When not to use it
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Find the transcript at: www.lennyspodcast.com/the-ult...
Where to find Bob Moesta:
• Twitter/X: / bmoesta
• LinkedIn: / bobmoesta
• Website: www.therewiredgroup.com/
• Podcast: pca.st/gg6goo1n
Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: www.lennysnewsletter.com
• Twitter/X: / lennysan
• LinkedIn: / lennyrachitsky
In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Bob’s background
(04:04) What is the Jobs To Be Done framework
(07:29) Struggling moments and demand
(11:14) Reducing friction in the sales process
(14:46) How Autobooks improved their buying process and 4x’ed conversion
(16:52) The six phases of the buying process
(18:30) The JTBD interview process
(21:55) How Bob’s TBI affected his reading/writing
(22:02) Why people switch companies
(27:18) JTBD interviewing
(30:07) Discussion guides
(32:48) The danger of looking at the customer through the product
(33:53) First steps in applying the JTBD framework
(36:25) Signs people are ready for a change
(37:43) Bob’s “layers of language”
(40:15) Examples of companies with broad adoption of JTBD
(43:59) The different flavors of JTBD
(48:19) Bob’s work with Clay Christensen on JTBD theory
(51:05) When not to use JTBD
(53:40) Common misconceptions about the framework
(55:55) What compelled Bob to spend so much of his life on JTBD
(58:07) Takeaways
(59:07) Lightning round
Referenced:
• Jason Fried on LinkedIn: / jason-fried
• Des Traynor on LinkedIn: / destraynor
• Southern New Hampshire University: degrees.snhu.edu/
• Paul LeBlanc on LinkedIn: / paul-j-leblanc-6a17749
• Demand-Side Sales 101: Stop Selling and Help Your Customers Make Progress: www.amazon.com/Demand-Side-Sa...
• Autobooks: www.autobooks.co/
• Intercom: www.intercom.com/
• Zendesk: www.zendesk.com/
• HubSpot: www.hubspot.com/
• The Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University: www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/
• Y Combinator: www.ycombinator.com/
• Michael Horn on LinkedIn: / michaelbhorn
• Ethan Bernstein on LinkedIn: / ethanbernstein
• Never Split the Difference: Negotiating as If Your Life Depended on It: www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Di...
• William Edwards Deming on Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwa...
• Basecamp: basecamp.com/
• Sriram and Aarthi on Lenny’s Podcast: www.lennyspodcast.com/hot-tak...
• Genichi Taguchi: www.qualitygurus.com/genichi-...
• Tony Ulwick on LinkedIn: / tonyulwick
• The Clayton Christensen Institute on LinkedIn: / clayton-christensen-in...
• Shape Up: basecamp.com/shapeup
• The End of Average: Unlocking Our Potential by Embracing What Makes Us Different: www.amazon.com/End-Average-Un...
• The Big Bang Theory on TBS: www.tbs.com/shows/the-big-ban...
• Oppenheimer: www.oppenheimermovie.com/
• Kyota massage chairs at Costco: www.costco.com/massage-chairs...
• Paul Adams on LinkedIn: / pauladams
• Matt Hodges on LinkedIn: / mattnhodges
Production and marketing by penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.
This was pure gold.
Based on Bob's "they said this but they did that" principle, let me make a case about JTBD:
They might call it "Jobs to be done" but it's actually "archeology of irrational human pivots".
I have already downloaded this episode to listen without connection whenever I need. One of the best, thank you Lenny and Bob.
Wow! just wow!
UA-cam is a better teacher because of such podcasts!
Bob is great and lenny you are amazing! :)
Litreally took notes... 😇
Lenny, this is one of your top videos. The amount of insights and thoughtful ideas surpassed every expectation I had. Lauryn Isford's episode was my favorite so far but I think this one tops it.
This guy is a legend. He helped us transform our business!!!!
Thank you beyond measure for interviewing this brilliant man - I learned of JTBD in 2020 and am returning to it now before I take another step into investing in my business. GREAT Interview~
Great insights Lenny and Bob! Keep it up 👏
I'll keep coming back to this episode.
I love the Shinola Spartan clock, Robert, and thank you Lenny - I hope all's well!
Wow, totally amazing insights on JTBD. Thank you so much for this wonderful conversation, Bob and Lenny
This is just stellar. One the very very best episodes
What you are selling is not what people want to buy; Demand led sales - these words will be with me for a long time
This was such an insightful podcast on so many levels! I was listening while cleaning - and had to stop to take notes! I’ll be resharing this one
Amazing episode and amazing guest. Thank you both for this.
Bob is awesome. Great interview!
Thanks for getting him on your podcast Lenny..pure gold.
I’ve listened to roughly 80% of your episodes since I discovered your podcast. But I have to say that this one was truly one of a kind. I’m working as a PM and I’m currently trying the framework. This will help me a lot! Thank you both 👍
Awesome interview Bob and Lenny! This is essential listening. Clear, energizing, inspiring.
I build furniture as a hobby. One piece had legs made of three pieces of wood that had to be joined end-to-end, and it was painstaking work. A toolmaker, around a year later, came out with an approach to solving that kind of problem. The video so clearly demonstrated my "struggling moment" and how they addressed it, that I bought the $695 solution immediately. I just bought a new bicycle with disk brakes after crashing into the back of a car that stopped short because my brakes were not powerful enough for me to avoid the collision. I liked the old bike and would have ridden for another decade, if not for the crash.
Almost every product I own or service I buy, I can tie back to a struggling moment.
Amazing storie, thank you for sharing!
wow this guy is incredible.
What an amazing session. Pure gold ❤
What a fantastic conversation. So much clarity. 4 pages of notes. Might be the best video on your podcast.
The most interesting interview about JTBD. Thank you!
Bob, fantastic as always. Not knowing that Bob and Clayton share the same perspective on JTBD theory, it's a major issue for people in product thinking arena.
Great insight into the JTDB framework and really understanding it's about the context of where customers are in their process. When Bob started diagraming the forces need to get a person from an old product to a new product, it reminded me of Ash Maury’s latest edition of Running Lean where he goes into a similar model around switching triggers. Would be great to see him on here, if you haven’t interviewed him before.
Thanks for this video. This reminds me of the job mapping methodology I used I the early 2000s. I would sit with a client and develop a diagram of what the user must do, what they actually do, who expects these things to be done, and who benefits from the job.
amazing conversation - thank you!
"if you build it, they will come" :D
9:51 🙌🏻 context >> pain
11:14
Amazing Interview, Lenny! Your podcast never disappoints, and Bob shares so many gems in this one.
Great interview, really insightful!
This is amazing interview!!!
What a smart man.
Amazing pod thanks
Some parts are just telling how service design works with very fancy way. Like user studies and interviewing people correct way (listening) and clustering data to see patterns. Still good stuff
And one good advice: Never ask people what are they going to do - like he also said very longly.
Interesting theory. But what about fintech enabled marketplaces? How this model fits?
My take-away is the phrase: "both Context and Outcome"
What is "passive looking" part around the 6 steps in the sales process?
Bob has a book called Demand Side Sales that lays out the customer's buying steps: First Thought, Passive Looking, Active Looking, Deciding etc. The sales process only works when you diagnose where the customer is in their buying process and then take the right action. The book is great.
Is just with me or at 56:08 Lenny videos disappears the subtitle auto generated?
Tooop❤
A man who cannot read or write is a teacher author and a CEO. He also tells you how to build companies. Go Figure!
This is so sad. The jargon, the vapor ware, the absolute vapid nature of all of this.
Please elaborate, I love contrarian views!
Just my notes:
Pain & Gain vs Context & Outcomes
"Kick-ass half is better than half-ass whole." vs Quickbooks 🤔🤔
Functional energy - Time space effort knowledge
Emotional energy - how I feel
Social energy - how others perceive me
Why Churn - Random vs Tell me why people changed