History of Japanese TCGs #12: How Konami Stole Christmas
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- The debut of the Yu-Gi-Oh anime series breathed new life into the OCG at a critical moment, flooding the game with new players, new cards, and new rules. The year 2000 was a major turning point for both the game and franchise--and the ramifications of that are still being felt today.
- Ігри
I love whenever you reference the period that the YGO manga was at, instead of brushing it off as funny anime stuff like most people.
Puts into perspective into how it was a manga first before a real card game, how much work the TCG and video game teams put into making sense of it.
in the manga magic cylinder would absolutely counter mirror force for the exact logic described as the local ruling lol
When I got this notification, you can bet I dropped what I was doing to watch. Thank you for your continued effort to catalogue all this history in a way westerners can understand!
witch never missed timing actually, missing the timing is when the effect is a when on an optional effect, however witch is a mandatory effect, and so it cannot miss its timing
Yeah, rewatching this, that statement was pretty egregious. Tributing Witch/Sangan for monarchs was pretty well known historically.
He Returns..... But at what cost?
23:00 Even though they don't really do it anymore, as pretty much all mandatory Trigger Effects are printed with "if" nowadays, for the 2017 errata of Witch, even if her effect said "when", because the effect is mandatory, it would still activate even if the last thing to occur wasn't it being sent from the field to the GY.
I know this is an old comment, but I can confirm this. That didn't sound right to me, so I had to double-check it. Missing the timing is still dumb.
Spell Speed 3 were Interrupts, Touya! Those had only just stopped being a thing in Magic.
Literally forgot Interrupts ever existed...which is probably what Wizards wanted.
Thank you for including your sources. My knowledge of the OCG's history is very limited, so I'm really interested in learning more from both you and firsthand accounts.
The quality of this coverage is incredible. Thank you for this documentary, I hope everyone in the community gets to see it!
>Turns that had 1 player go off with little to no interaction from their opponent for long stretches of time
> Fusion deck being a generic tool box that had all of your outs/power plays
> Graveyard effectively being your second hand
Lmao this game has always been like this.
Not 4chin >doesnt work
24:10 Since Peten is a Trigger Effect, its effect would have to activate first in response to it being destroyed by battle, with the Trap only be able to be activated in response afterwards. Although they don't really state it in the movie, it's pretty obvious that's what happened as Peten resolved after the Trap did.
My random guess for Gravekeeper's Servant is based on what i remember some people talking about it as being an extremely miserable card for children to deal with. It's not especially strong, but mill has always been a feels bad mechanic for the one being milled, and when your skill floor is very low with young kids being punished for playing the only way they know how, IE attacking, in a way that can make them feel awful, I wonder if it was banned because they received complaints about it from school age players.
Anyway really good video, glad you finally got it completed!
Absolutely love this series.
Thank you for continuing it.
Why can't I hit like more than once?! This is an absolutely phenomenal series, and I'm really glad to see it come back.
11:05 and a bit on. Watch that part. A quick ramble
Glad to have you back in the saddle. The early OCG/TCG are probably the most interesting tale that any card game has. It was also somehow simultaneously one of the best (goodstuff formats) and worst (tier 0 OTK formats) card games out there.
(P.S. I'm sure you already got roasted for this, but Witch doesn't miss its own timing when you tribute it for a tribute summon. Only if you tribute it for the cost of activating an effect like "Share the Pain". That says a lot more about how the Byzantine nature of Yugioh's rules than your video-making quality, naturally.)
YYYYEEEEESSSSSS I'm so HYPED. And a whole 1hr14m runtime? It feels like Christmas. I'll have to go back and watch the rest of the series for the 10th time. Thanks for not being dead.
Was not existing to see another one of these. What a fun way to start my work night.
It would be amazing to have a company release notes showing what they expected their game to play as out the gate or with a new balance tweeked in new releases and what actually happened
Magic was actually pretty close to this for a long time. I really miss some of the written columns they used to have on their website - it feels like Maro's one of the few to still regularly publish columns, and as a designer and not a developer, he only really has insight on half the process. Konami especially is an absolute black box of a tcg company, though - yugioh is still the only tcg I know of that doesn't even credit their artists on the card, and no one has really been able to tell what they're thinking, except that they want money.
Undoubtedly one of my fav yt series so glad you’re back
Clarification at the point where Peten and Deck Destruction Virus are discussed:
The version of Peten as seen in the film actually has its effect worded without a “you can”, which in turn makes Peten’s “when” effect mandatory, not optional. Mandatory “when” effects cannot miss timing, so in this instance, Peten summons another Peten no matter what. If anything, it’s Deck Destruction Virus that would miss its timing here, since its “when” effect IS optional. In the game-state as presented in the film, Peten would be destroyed, then another Peten hits the field immediately, and then the last thing to happen was that new Peten hitting the field. So Kaiba should not have been able to activate DDV’s effect.
Deck Destruction Virus, incidentally, is not a real card. And it could never be a real card. Not because the mill effect is busted as heck (though it is also that), but because it sends 10 /random/ cards from deck to grave. How do you replicate that on the tabletop?
For the random discard effect... maybe they could shuffle the Deck, discard the top 10, then reshuffle? Just brainstorming.
Noooo it's 2:45 am. I have to go to sleep knowing this video exists but that I haven't watched it yet
I was just recently rewatching an older episode of this series. Thank you so much for continueing your amazing work
Awesome video and I remember playing with those cards or against those cards when Yugioh tcg came out in 2002,good times man,old school yugioh was cool.
RIP Kazuki Takashi.
The case of deck destruction virus and peten does work, it's like mystic tomato and robbin' goblin, the triggers resolve separately or something.
Toon world was designed to play with megamorph and toon monsters could be set even without it so you don't have to rely too much on it.
These videos are pure gold, thank you!
🙌🏽 THANK YOU!!! Keep them coming in the future! 😁
Nice, I knew you would show pages of that manga about magic sooner or later!
great series, still binge watch it every now and then
I always thought Tailor of the Fickle was such a kool card thematically. But never seen it get play. So wild to learn that it was once a popular meta card! 29:58
I'm glad you're back, but unfortunately your research seems a bit shoddy this time around.
Turns out that missing the timing is so stupid that even you didn't choose very good examples for it. Witch (at least in the TCG) never missed the timing because her effect isn't optional. Now both Witch and Sangan had like 10 errata, but at least to my knowledge that fact never changed. And Kaiba's Virus combo actually does work, both effects would simply go on the same chain. That's because he's using a weird virus card here that activates when his monster is destroyed, as opposed to the actual Crush Card, which tributes the monster as cost; only the latter causing Peten to miss the timing.
I'm not sure how you got the idea that Maha Vailo was the best deck of the Magic Ruler format. That's far from the truth. Yusi dedicates a fair amount of time to it on his blog, but that's because it was a deck he personally enjoyed, not because it was particularly strong. You even (correctly) point out that combo focused strategies were not viable, but then call a deck made of 2-3 card combos with cards that do nothing on their own the best. The entire strategy falls apart in the face of a single Forceful Sentry. The actual best deck was just a simple beatdown deck running Witch, Sangan and high attack low level monsters, maybe a single Summoned Skull (because you don't want to draw it when your opponent handloops you out of your tribute material, but searching it with Witch is still valuable). And of course all the broken Spells would be in there as well.
Also there are a couple of minor things that irked me:
Summoning Stein and protecting it for a turn isn't a very good play. Sometimes you wouldn't have any other options, but usually you would try to only use Stein when you could win that turn.
The Ring of Destruction during damage calculation bit was weird. I think you just phrased it poorly, because Ring can not be used during damage calculation. Rather you would simply attack with your monster and then blow it up afterwards, whether that be during Main Phase 2 or still in the Battle Phase.
Magic Drain can't generate card advantage on its own. It's always a 1-for-1 trade with an opponent's spell card, either the one in hand or the one you negate. The only minor exception is negating something like Tribute to the Doomed.
You don't have to summon Relinquished to make Thousand-Eyes Restrict, you can simply fuse from hand. That's still not practical, but definitely much more reasonable, especially with fusion material substitute monsters. Also Fusion monsters don't go to the extra deck when destroyed after being summoned by Stein. They go to the graveyard, but can't be revived (feel free to provide an ancient japanese source saying otherwise, because this your claim is so out there, I feel like you'd have a good reason for it).
but are you saying this in a TCG perspective or a Series 2 OCG perspective? what touya said in this video is around the Series 2 OCG, so applying modern TCG effect solving makes you sound like a clown that made a really long text, because if I recall right current TCG is on Series 10 or so
Thanks for your kind words of concern, but everything I wrote is immediately relevant to the video and the time frame being discussed. The Expert Rules remained mostly unchanged until the next big rule revision with the introduction of Synchro monsters and are still the base for our rules today, so much of what is true now is also applicable to Series 2.
@@Apocralyph "I'm glad you're back but i'm gonna complain" lmfao
@@notscorchingsands9718 Its valid criticism
The only way I can think that he thought they go back to the fusion deck is conflating Magical Scientist in some way.
Beyond thrilled that you’re back
Letsgoooooo!!! Glad to see you back
correction, since I didn't see it written already about mst: actually that mostly works the same in other games, even more weird sometimes since in mtg you can announce the activation of a cards ability wich costs mana and then use a mana ability of the same creature that sacrifices itself to pay for the activation of the former ability and it would successfully resolve.
the only thing where it would be applicable is in a new rules revision that means that, for spells only and not abilities, that countering now moves the spell from the stack to the graveyard instead of it staying on the stack to later resolve without effect not the other way around.
The interactions between MST and Heavy Storm was the game at its best. Chaining MST in response to their MST to get a 2-for-1, or successfully pulling off a proStorm on someone (setting Heavy Storm to get the opponent to set 2 traps on their turn to avoid getting MST'd) were the best feelings.
I clicked this the moment I saw it! I love the history of Yugioh series, it’s genuinely so interesting,
7:52 this isn't accurate. You cannot have a continuous trap effect chained to its own activation. You CAN activate (one of) its effects as part of its activation, depending on the card, but that is not chaining to itself.
10:15 this was a prime spot for a joke of "or they could not be cheating" and showing Artifact Scythe.
20:15 Fun fact, elements of the R replay rules were actually added to Powered Crawler and Yellow Alert to replicate this.
1:08:25 the entire premise of this segment is wrong considering you can just fusion summon using Relinquished from hand, reducing the cards necessary to summon TER to just poly and two named materials (either of which can be substituted by the existing substitutes): what you describe as a ludicrous -4 is actually a bit more reasonable -2.
(I also have zero clue where you got the idea that TER would return back to the fusion deck would come from. Scientist, maybe?)
Glad to have you back pal
15:15 Snatch Steal is now Limited as of January 1, 2024
In the TCG.
As a great man once sad: _"The only intricate thing about this game is its ban list."_
Although you compared it to Magic's current effect order system (the stack), Yugioh actually copy-pasted Magic's then current effect order system (batches). Most Mtg don't know about batches, but the gist is very similar to Yugioh: once it starts to resolve, EVERYTHING resolves, and you can only respond to interrupts with other interrupts (a retired card type, akin to spell speed 3) and mana sources (a short-lived card type that happened immediately).
There were other peculiarities like damage not destroying the creature until the end of the batch, but it's obvious that batches was the inspiration for Yugioh's chain links. Which is funny nowadays, because almost no Magic player would be familiar with that system.
Fascinating, my childhood finally makes sense now.
1:54 I love how Change of Heart, Dark Hole, Raigeki, Monster Reborn, and Harpie's Feather Duster are all legal now, and are completely fine at this point. Hell, only Feather Duster actually sees significant play. Change of Heart, Dark Hole, and Raigeki see fringe side deck play, while Monster Reborn sees no play at all.
it's interesting to see how quickly japanese players started to play Solemn Judgment and over here Judgement wasn't played AT ALL when it came out in MRD ... nor PSV i think the first time we saw it was when IOC came around. Same with Maha Vailo. Here it was a Super Rare so not everybody had it and Equip Spells were considered bad (why equiping a Monster when a simple fissure deals with the opponements monsters as well) so Maha Vailo Beatdown wasn't played in that capacity
and yeah i played the game from the start and boy was it annoying when new kids and players came in and played just like in the show with no tribute summoning, placing monsters in face up defence position, activating spellcards in the opponements turn.... as a "how to play" anime ygo was REALLY bad. It changed during 5Ds where they actually played correctly (most of the time) but the first arc... wasnt good.
And no... most new players never read the rulebook
Amazing amount of word on these videos. Thank you for your effort.
I'm glad to know when I came into a shop in 2004 and tried to normal summon summon skull on my first term I wasn't the only one
Slight correction at 19:23. Chaining actually WAS explained in the series but not until the final season during the KC Grand Championship arc. By then most people already would have found out about chaining or at least have heard of it though.
Hilarious that Snatch Steal sees like no play despite getting unbanned in January.
That they manged to power creep even something that powerful really does say everything.
Great to see the continuation of this series!
Damn what a fantastic video, was super invested through all of it!
Minor correction to 30:15
Stealing a Demon's Axe would be a 3000 point difference, since your opponent would lose 1000 from Axe, and 500 from Vilo while you'd gain the same. Stealing an Axe by itself would be 2000, but since you said extended, I'm assuming you mean with Maha Vilo
Great video, it's really neat learning about the start of Yugioh, especially as a very casual TCG player
hell yeah. love the level of research in this series, it's super great
Absolutely love these videos
Thank you for creating this video. I really love the history of this game.
41:41 the combo with banisher of the light maybe?
He back.
RETURN OF THE KING
Yes!! Big fan of this series.
Lost of mistakes but glad you did this keep going
That was truly a great and informative video! Good job.
Excellent work, I'm really glad to have this series back for the perspective it brings. Yugioh really is so much stupider than I give it credit for, I love this game.
52:37
Its crazy to think about how stuff like this can happen due to how TCG sets work.
honestly the irony to me is that most if not all of the broken unbalanced stuff that was introduced to the game was konami's original stuff, and _not_ just stuff they lifted directly from the source material - they actually nerfed that stuff pretty consistently or even to the point of being bad, OR they failed to give them their original restrictions (e.g. harpy's feather duster being a card that you have to combine with a harpy making it considerably less universal than just being able to play it for free)
When you hear "a dominant strategy called Aroma chain" but then remember it's a history vid and has nothing to do with Aromages ;_;
So now we wait a year for the next video.
The next one is the first Digimon tcg, right? Or did the plans change?
Also good video. Keep doing great work.
Magic Ruler most fun set ever printed.
This is such good content
gonna enjoy watching this~
"Kinda like how modern video games are released unfinished and they patch them up after the fact with downloadable content and bugfixes"
Yeah no dude, this was always a thing that happened, even back then. Been liking the series but this rubbed me the wrong way.
I've been waiting for this. 👀
How does this have not way more views? The whole series is incredible!
I've had a couple years to think about this question (people ask it a lot) and I think it comes down to a dual momentum issue. There /are/ a lot of people that would be interested in this topic, but not a lot of other videos like this series, so there aren't many feeds it gets recommended on. And not many of those potential viewers will click blind into a 40~75 minute video with a host they don't know. The length is daunting.
So it's both less likely to show up in recommendations, and less likely to be clicked on at all, and the latter reinforces the former as far as UA-cam's algorithm is concerned. To get more people to see it, I'm reliant on my subscribers and a small group of people that deliberately search for this sort of thing--all my major growth spurts happened when a bigger UA-camr like Farfa, Different Fight, or JWittz plugged my work. These latest entries have done better in their first weeks than any of my past ones, but it's still mostly my existing subscribers watching: when I had 2000 subscribers I would get about 2500 views week 1 on a new video, now that I hit 5k subs I'm getting ~6k views.
This playlist in particular does have a long life in reruns, it gets circulated more every year, but the first weeks are always bad. Most of the individual episodes don't make good clickbait, and they aren't easily shared like a quick skit or react video. When I think of the upper limit for "highly shareable", I think of videos like Watch for Rolling Rocks with pannenkoek--which are shorter and funnier, under 25 minutes.
My suspicion is that, despite my fans loving them, these specific videos will never be a popular entry gate to my channel. They're the content I want to make, but the longer something gets the harder it is for the viewer to commit to. It's also harder to create, and on here the longer you go without uploading the more you slip out of recommendations.
Meanwhile stuff like Let's Plays can be fun for viewers that want to see more of the host's personality, but they aren't good "outreach." The old Digimon TCG videos I was able to squeeze out two years ago were great outreach, 10~20 minutes with a lot more views than my subscriber count of the time. (Even now, 46k is more than any individual episode in this series.) This series has to lean on that sort of content to establish trust with new viewers, and I just haven't been in a position to make that breaking-news flavor of stuff.
@@lost-worlds wow, thank you for this very well put answer! However, I think you don't need much, because as someone who actively searches for this kind of content, I only got your channel recommended a few days ago, which hopefully means that the algorithm is slowly picking you up. Furthermore the engagement under your videos is quite good, which absolutely should help.
Also, Roobindale did something similar about the TCG meta game. While he has more subscribers, his viewer count on his video about this topic is over 1M now, way more than he has subscribers. Which at the very least gives an estimate on how much views can be generated by these kinds of videos.
Looking on how good the quality of your videos is, I am absolutely sure that your breakthrough will come rather soon. Especially because you fill a very special niche for a very special , but very big and active, fandom, which should amount to a big advantage over time. Especially because this kind of content, documentaries on YT in general, are getting more and more recognition in the last few months. At least that is what I am observing.
I really wish you the best of luck and success and hope that I can watch many new videos from you for many years to come!
Edit: typos due to mobile
So yeah… about that Snatch Steal thing…
"If you don't understand it don't worry because most yugioh players don't either"
bro you are the only person I know who roasts yugioh players harder than other yugioh players.
You should watch farfa.
In the casual ruleset, you could keep playing after Decking out?? Looool
Edit: Ah, kept watching. That Life rule was probably what they used in casual.
Konami may have stolen it, but you gave it right back. Two months early, to boot.
glad seeing next part
Dude these are so good
HE IS BACK BABY
What happened to the sources in the description? I’m sure I clicked on a wayback machine link from this video when I was watching it earlier, but when I resumed watching it after a break the links were gone?
I never had links on this specific video's description, but I did show some links on-screen that viewers could type in...when I first started this series I tried adding hyperlinks as annotations to the on-screen ones, only to discover that feature was cut years ago. (Wish they would bring it back.)
Woops, I’m so sorry, i was tripping. It was another YGO related video I was watching alongside this (it was about capsule monsters) and I confused it with your video
Snatch Steal is still in the forbidden list (at least for TCG)
I feel like the implication that the anime was never made to follow the card game is a bit misleading, as the anime gradually began to follow the real card game with time. Obviously its not that simple (GX barely ttried, 5Ds tried season one and then just gave up until Zexal and each anime onwards began committing to it more and more), but the fact still remains that they show over time did begin to follow that card game as the card game itself became more familiar to the playerbase and as the playerbase became more committed to it. Not to mention how the cardgame itself was developing separately from the anime as an actual card game, with konami experimenting with the card game as an actual card game.
That guy from Hong Kong -- who didn't use a Fusion Deck but should have, who won the first "World but not World" Championships is the real King of Games. He did all this with no internet and no simulators.
What's the name of the mtg manga shown at 4:00?
Destroy All Humankind: They Can't Be Regenerated
24:09
I agree but to be fair, those should have normally go into a chain rather than being 2 separates effects. But again, the animes didn't like chains.
19:21 in the original it was not but crazily enough in the dub explained in Rebecca and and Vivian duel when Rebecca used imperial order then scapegoats
The hype has never been this real.
Mystical Space Typhoon.
HELL YEAH LETS GOOOOOOOOO
Love your videos bro 🔥
Update: They (OCG) have unbanned Snatch Steal
Yoo it's out
What promos came in the joey deck? I'm guessing Kunai with Chain and something else or Graceful and Skull dice
Should also put at 5:57 like as a joke is use weather report instead 😂
While the text of ‘plz don’t pay half to negate swords.’
Can't watch right now but I definitely have something to do tomorrow
How do you feel about snatch steal being at 1 again? Cuz if it's anything but "eh whatever" you're nuts lol
In this video you showed that the manga had outlined specific rules (which from the screenshotted panels looked to be from the battle city arc) that were different from the konami paper card game, but in an earlier video in the series you mentioned that when konami made the first tcg video game, the manga rules weren't clear so they had to invent their own. What's the actual timeline of events here? When konami made the tcg rules did those manga rules already exist and konami just chose to ignore them and write different rules, or were those manga rules only showcased later on after konami already finished making their game? I tried looking up some release dates online but couldn't find much.
So Konami's first digital adaptations of the card game came out in December 1998, while the manga introduced the Duelist Kingdom rules in January 1998 and had duels using them through November 1999. (Kaiba VS the duel machine is the last one.) The OCG used the Official Rules (no tributes) from February 1999 until May of the same year, when the first version of the Expert Rules were introduced. The Series 2 Expert Rules, which introduced the card subtypes and the timing rules described in the video, were introduced in April 2000, while the manga's version of these rules were introduced several months earlier, in the first week of December 1999. (Yugi VS the Rare Hunter is the first duel to use them.) Version 1 of the Expert Rules predate the manga, but version 2 came out after it and had Battle City as a reference.
Part of why the rules are so different is because of holdovers from the Official Rules, which were in turn derived from the first video game--Magic cards in the first Game Boy game didn't use up a zone to activate, which is ultimately where we get the idea of Monster and Magic/Trap cards being played to separate zones in the OCG. Konami expanded that idea into distinct zones for those cards types, and when they did their first run of the Expert Rules they simply kept the same field layout used under the no-tributes ruleset. Once Takahashi introduced his version of the Expert Rules with the Duel Disks, Konami updated the Expert Rules to the more modern form but kept the old field layout instead of reducing the number of zones to match the manga.
Another issue with it is that at this stage, they were basically trying to build the ruleset to accommodate a card pool they had made for a different game. Adding the timing issues in helped balance cards like Witch, Critter, and Last Will, and do some basic future-proofing of new cards with old ones. It's a clumsy solution to the problem but it sometimes worked out.
I love this series!!!
Thorough
Hahaha the catapult turtle strategie was fire! But honestly: magic cylindering a mirror force (and a gameplay on that principle) would be siiick! Would create more options but also opens the door for a lot of bullshit i guess
🎉🎉🎉
18:54 It honestly sounds like Takahashi was trying harder to make his fictional game more balanced than Konami was making their real game. If the rules you described were put in place, we never would have had to deal with a lot of the FTK bs that cropped up throughout Yugioh's history.
Wait he drowned? I thought he was just old and died..
Sadly, he drowned trying to save three people from a riptide. He was only 60 and in good health at the time.
YESSSS LETS GOOO