One thing I have done when the client's budget is not enough, is offering a lower rate but I then ask to have the copyright on the images ( if they are worth it ) and allow me to sell it as stock footage . A bit of a risk but it has worked for me.
Early in my career I walked off of two different jobs (about two years apart from one another they weren't consecutive). Both were unpaid and I walked off in both cases because they put my safety and the safety of the equipment I was volunteering (again for free) to the production in question and the client refused repeatedly to address my concerns. I'd like to think that in these circumstances I did the right thing (partially because at the time I felt like I had no choice) however both of these instances resulted in damage to my reputation and cut me off from a lot of potential gigs for a long time. I'd honestly say it took about ten years of approaching the industry from a completely different angle, winning awards, and getting great client feedback to MOSTLY erase the dark cloud of those two jobs. My only real advise to not repeat my mistake is don't work for free unless you fully understand the expectations and have set clear boundaries, also remember that people are going to value you less the less they have to pay you.
Nice video! I spent 44 years in commercial photography. My number one rule always demand 50 % upon signing a a contract. Always sign a contract with all the details outlining the entire job with transportation times and estimates of cost for all consumables with delivery times. It’s a tough business. I’m glad I’m retired. Dave.
Dave, that is a good rule to have. Recently I have a number of clients that appear to be in financial trouble and don't pay. One client is over 190 days now.
@@brucewilliamsstudio4932 I always went to their business and asked for my money in person. I found it to be the most effective collection practice. One time the customer gave me a bad check in this circumstance. I went to the Police Department and filed a criminal complaint. When we were before the Judge, the Customer pleaded dental bills prevented him paying me. The Judge said you don’t have to worry about dental bills because the County Jail has Free Dental Care. Got paid on the spot. PS Always try to get some money in person while you’re there. If you have to come back for more money next week that’s fine. Just let them know that you will be back next week. I have always been paid. Just be pleasant and polite, but tell them that you need your money.
Wow, so relevant to working in the film world. I've been a cinematographer for over 50 years. I've done thousands of shoots with scores and scores of producers in all areas of this business. I've had some absolutely wonderful working relationships with producers and some please-pinch-me great projects. I had a client for many years who would periodically make insulting and humiliating comments about me, usually in front of other people. These came out of nowhere. It became a huge issue with me, principally because I did not know how to deal with it. I wanted and appreciated the years of work, the money, but what to make of her habit of dealing with me in this way. To my regret, I never made it clear to her that such behavior was unacceptable and that it was enormously hurtful, not just to me personally, but to our working relationship. Some years back we parted ways, but the hurt of it lingers in my head to this day.
I've dealt with most of these, I learnt no. 2 quite quickly. Also, I've only quit one job because the work was unethical, the pay was horrible and the crew were condescending and insulting to me. I finished the week, gave them a list of replacements that were ready to take over and went on my way. I never heard from them again, thank god! haha. Great video like always, ⚠YOU CLOWN !!
I live in a small town where local video work is a pool of 10 people of professional quality. One of them...is my estranged father, who doesn't talk to me. This creates a dilemma of crossing paths on many local shoots, however his ego and angry attitude has earned him a negative reputation. As I am the polar opposite of him, I act professional and calm which has gotten me work that was meant for him...adding to the awkwardness, but the advice of being nice and professional is really felt in small towns.
Thanks for this video. As a professional freelance Filmeditor for over 12 years, i can wholeheartedly agree with all of your tips. Ithink this video is great for new and/or aspiring filmmakers
After a day of shooting that i lost it on the backstage(didn’t let the client know how much furious i was about their logistics)youtube sugested me this video. Thank you for showing me that i took the right decision and learned a lot how to deal with rough clients
I have walked off a job when there is a clear and present risk to my health and safety. The client's idea of a day was 24 hours and kept me working three consecutive days (72 hours) without sleep and I finally collapsed. I stated I was leaving and would not continue to work under these conditions. They called back about 10 hours later and offered me an increase and the option to select days off. Yes, clients can be that dangerously unreasonable that you have to force their hand for your own health and safety. BTW that wasn't the only time I had a client consider days open-ended and while they rotated producers or directors. While I've had no problem doing a 24 hour day when there's an extreme deadline it has to be stated such is possible and there must be a point when you have to "call it a day."
I had a tech consulting business for a number of years, working with large client projects, many people, and a variety of personalities. Luc, each one of your Tips has so much value, no matter what field you are in, as a solo talent.
One practice that clarifies the deliverable is to CLEARLY STATE what is NOT included in the scope of work. That is, easy to state what you will do but ask yourself what you are NOT including, based on your experience with this type of work and those unusual but not unknown circumstances that can cost of lot of time and money to fix. And--suddenly!--you realize the client could very well be expecting those to be included!
11 місяців тому
Thanks for sharing this, This is absolutely great to hear. I'm a Turkish filmmaker who is currently living in Vancouver; I had rough times dealing with clients because of cultural differences, and I wish someone could tell me all of those before starting my career abroad.
I have stuck it out through many a bad client. That said, I had one narrative feature I was shooting where the a-hole director said blanks for the guns scenes were too expensive so he would use real bullets (not fired toward people or the camera but still...) I walked.
This is really helpful man. Thank you. I'm dealing with a Client with a small budget who wants the moon right now, so I really appreciate this guidance!
Luc, I have found that your suggestions not only apply to the film industry but to other industries like the ones I've worked in before (my 35 years in corporate and 28 years in the Air Force). It's just good people relationships that seem to be the way people like to be treated (sounds Biblical, doesn't it). Again, thank you for your faithfulness in posting every week. It is appreciated. Thanks, Les.
Good video! - Very relevant tips. I'm a freelance DP/Director in Sweden and I still get calls every week from producers just asking " what's your rate" ...period. So I try to ask about the actual project, what they want me to do, timeline, budget etcetera. So they answer "It's a commercial - whats your rate?" I still have not heard back from any of these mystery-productions, and I always wonder the real reason for the call, if a real production even existed, and if anyone ended up actually working on it?
Been a consultant for more than 25 years and you made an excellent summary. However, sometimes you need to Get Out, as the situation is not manageable. Often it’s a situation with impossible expectations, no clear assignment and no collaboration. If you are in the early phases of a large project, thinks are unclear and your job to to find out what’s possible.
This a great video Mr. Forsyth! These sorts of things happen in still photography also (or most other fields I would imagine) .Creating visual content is extraordinarily enjoyable and it is easy to be overly sensitive about stuff. Great advice! Thanks!
Thank you Luc! You're one of the most generous, helpful and inspiring "clowns" in this genre on youtube. I appreciate every little slice of information you're sharing.
Luc your channel has been my latest highlight lately. I wanted to share with you what your content impacts on other people is positive and feel you should know. I've been trapped on a person project for years now, it's all in a mental place about high expectations and confusion on delivery, the narrative and the overall finished product. All the while, I've managed to still complete work for others and make a living, my passion project keeps being left on hold and I wish I could finish it so I could leave it behind instead of leaving it on hold. Have you ever dealt with that?
Very nice summary.. And be sure, same is right for the Software Industrie as well. I shared this video to a friend that started his Consulting Career a few month ago as an good advice.. - Cheers Sven
Thank you for this info, it feels like things are obvious, but when a job is over your shoulders and other people depend on you this list is hard to apply flawlessly.
I tell my kids - never let your attitude suffer. If you decide to make a change. Redouble efforts and always finish strong. You should never wish ill for anyone, but if greener pastures present, make sure everyone at your present gig misses you when you are gone. We’ve seen great results, and bidding wars have resulted in higher offers by all sides, often far beyond what anyone would have ever expected from asking for a raise or the normal annual performance review cycle. The secret is being consistently engaged, committed, agreeable to work with, and competent.
Can we just all appreciate the exquisite timing of those two Succession clips? Honestly, I had to pause the video to laugh after the first one. The second one nearly broke me 😂
Loved this video; I’ve been working for under a year in professional settings and every time I walk on a set, the first day always throws me off because of the way certain clients and crew act, and I usually have to wait until the second or third day to really know if they’re hard to work with or just stressed 😂
Thank you... Mr. Luc Forsyth I have been waiting for this video and tips for long, I even was thinking about writing to you to post about some tips to manage clients... Anyway I love your videos and insights on film making.... If some day I am able to assist you ... ❤😊 Although if you need one...!
I had a buddy working as a PA he was on a particular demanding shoot and he is a pro through and through. They brought him in for what was supposed to be a 10hr day and he got fed up and walked out on hour 22.
This is all solid information that we all need to apply. Setting expectations and rates in writing at the start are tasks that need to happen to avoid problems down the road. Soft skills are as important as technical skills. Your clients will respect you and perceive you as professional. If they don't, that's a red flag that suggests this is a client to avoid. Over time you recognize the good clients from the problem ones. The upshot of this leads to better clients, better projects, better money and less stress.
Luc, thank you for this video. I walk away from my last job. I have doubts about my decision. On the other way they threated my with violance and death - that is too much to be cool.
My stomach is in knots listening to this! I used to work in Hollywood and I lost thousands of dollars by not getting paid for my work. Get things in writing! Don’t trust verbal agreements with your friends and/or acquaintances!
Clients are easy. Just produce an imax quality product for like 50 bucks - oh and make sure you set aside an entire year to shoot their 30 sec Facebook video. 😂
This times well.. I just got back from a short film shoot with a privat budget of a few tausend euros and I got on set and the "DP" didn't know what exposure is or what to set the shutter angle. I just tried my best holding myself together but I CANNOT stand this as an AC when the rest has no idea what they are doing
Clients outside of some annoying edit changes, which I ended by charging after 3 edits, my biggest issue was actually people I had to work with. Big egos, and bosses screaming at me. It can be hard to know what your getting into when getting hired somewhere. Especially with the nda ness of our industry.
Professionals like to work with Professionals. Most clients are NOT professionals. Most clients are ignorant children asking for everything that comes to their tiny little mind. I think the best thing to do is have a couple of projects ideas and niche into that. They get something like the series of things you have already made. You make the rules and have a firm price. You dictate what you need. There is room for creativity, and ideas can be talked about, but make it clear that your the director/producer and you always have the final say. Always.
Literally ALL businesses have difficult clients/customers. I will sometimes fire clients if it gets too bad, but for the most part I let the bad ones roll off my back. 😂
Great tips. But it still seems like the people who hire you kinda own you, and as a professional you always have to do all the extra stuff they ask, suck up whatever the say to you, and never give any suggestions, or God forbid, point out what they ask is beyond the scope of the initial agreement and is worth extra dollar. After that you become difficult to work with and whatever you do you're dead to them, despite overdelivering and other merit you may have built...
One thing I have done when the client's budget is not enough, is offering a lower rate but I then ask to have the copyright on the images ( if they are worth it ) and allow me to sell it as stock footage . A bit of a risk but it has worked for me.
Early in my career I walked off of two different jobs (about two years apart from one another they weren't consecutive). Both were unpaid and I walked off in both cases because they put my safety and the safety of the equipment I was volunteering (again for free) to the production in question and the client refused repeatedly to address my concerns. I'd like to think that in these circumstances I did the right thing (partially because at the time I felt like I had no choice) however both of these instances resulted in damage to my reputation and cut me off from a lot of potential gigs for a long time. I'd honestly say it took about ten years of approaching the industry from a completely different angle, winning awards, and getting great client feedback to MOSTLY erase the dark cloud of those two jobs. My only real advise to not repeat my mistake is don't work for free unless you fully understand the expectations and have set clear boundaries, also remember that people are going to value you less the less they have to pay you.
You can always get more jobs, but you only get one life. You made the right call
Nice video! I spent 44 years in commercial photography. My number one rule always demand 50 % upon signing a a contract. Always sign a contract with all the details outlining the entire job with transportation times and estimates of cost for all consumables with delivery times. It’s a tough business. I’m glad I’m retired. Dave.
Dave, that is a good rule to have. Recently I have a number of clients that appear to be in financial trouble and don't pay. One client is over 190 days now.
@@brucewilliamsstudio4932 I always went to their business and asked for my money in person. I found it to be the most effective collection practice. One time the customer gave me a bad check in this circumstance. I went to the Police Department and filed a criminal complaint.
When we were before the Judge, the Customer pleaded dental bills prevented him paying me. The Judge said you don’t have to worry about dental bills because the County Jail has Free Dental Care. Got paid on the spot.
PS Always try to get some money in person while you’re there. If you have to come back for more money next week that’s fine. Just let them know that you will be back next week.
I have always been paid. Just be pleasant and polite, but tell them that you need your money.
Wow, so relevant to working in the film world.
I've been a cinematographer for over 50 years. I've done thousands of shoots with scores and scores of producers in all areas of this business. I've had some absolutely wonderful working relationships with producers and some please-pinch-me great projects.
I had a client for many years who would periodically make insulting and humiliating comments about me, usually in front of other people. These came out of nowhere. It became a huge issue with me, principally because I did not know how to deal with it. I wanted and appreciated the years of work, the money, but what to make of her habit of dealing with me in this way. To my regret, I never made it clear to her that such behavior was unacceptable and that it was enormously hurtful, not just to me personally, but to our working relationship. Some years back we parted ways, but the hurt of it lingers in my head to this day.
I've dealt with most of these, I learnt no. 2 quite quickly. Also, I've only quit one job because the work was unethical, the pay was horrible and the crew were condescending and insulting to me. I finished the week, gave them a list of replacements that were ready to take over and went on my way. I never heard from them again, thank god! haha. Great video like always, ⚠YOU CLOWN !!
I live in a small town where local video work is a pool of 10 people of professional quality. One of them...is my estranged father, who doesn't talk to me. This creates a dilemma of crossing paths on many local shoots, however his ego and angry attitude has earned him a negative reputation. As I am the polar opposite of him, I act professional and calm which has gotten me work that was meant for him...adding to the awkwardness, but the advice of being nice and professional is really felt in small towns.
I use that phrase but have an add-on: Expect the best, prepare for the worst and capitalise on what comes. Another excellent video.
Thanks for this video. As a professional freelance Filmeditor for over 12 years, i can wholeheartedly agree with all of your tips. Ithink this video is great for new and/or aspiring filmmakers
After a day of shooting that i lost it on the backstage(didn’t let the client know how much furious i was about their logistics)youtube sugested me this video. Thank you for showing me that i took the right decision and learned a lot how to deal with rough clients
I have walked off a job when there is a clear and present risk to my health and safety. The client's idea of a day was 24 hours and kept me working three consecutive days (72 hours) without sleep and I finally collapsed. I stated I was leaving and would not continue to work under these conditions. They called back about 10 hours later and offered me an increase and the option to select days off. Yes, clients can be that dangerously unreasonable that you have to force their hand for your own health and safety. BTW that wasn't the only time I had a client consider days open-ended and while they rotated producers or directors. While I've had no problem doing a 24 hour day when there's an extreme deadline it has to be stated such is possible and there must be a point when you have to "call it a day."
I had a tech consulting business for a number of years, working with large client projects, many people, and a variety of personalities. Luc, each one of your Tips has so much value, no matter what field you are in, as a solo talent.
And that my friends is the truth. These are rules or guidelines to live by.
Absolute legend! Have made close calls with almost all of these points but very important lessons to learn! Thanks for another excellent video Luc!
As you said, none of those 10 are easy, but all 10 are critical. Another super concise well done video
One practice that clarifies the deliverable is to CLEARLY STATE what is NOT included in the scope of work. That is, easy to state what you will do but ask yourself what you are NOT including, based on your experience with this type of work and those unusual but not unknown circumstances that can cost of lot of time and money to fix. And--suddenly!--you realize the client could very well be expecting those to be included!
Thanks for sharing this, This is absolutely great to hear. I'm a Turkish filmmaker who is currently living in Vancouver; I had rough times dealing with clients because of cultural differences, and I wish someone could tell me all of those before starting my career abroad.
I have stuck it out through many a bad client. That said, I had one narrative feature I was shooting where the a-hole director said blanks for the guns scenes were too expensive so he would use real bullets (not fired toward people or the camera but still...) I walked.
This is really helpful man. Thank you. I'm dealing with a Client with a small budget who wants the moon right now, so I really appreciate this guidance!
Luc, I have found that your suggestions not only apply to the film industry but to other industries like the ones I've worked in before (my 35 years in corporate and 28 years in the Air Force). It's just good people relationships that seem to be the way people like to be treated (sounds Biblical, doesn't it). Again, thank you for your faithfulness in posting every week. It is appreciated. Thanks, Les.
Good video! - Very relevant tips. I'm a freelance DP/Director in Sweden and I still get calls every week from producers just asking " what's your rate" ...period. So I try to ask about the actual project, what they want me to do, timeline, budget etcetera. So they answer "It's a commercial - whats your rate?" I still have not heard back from any of these mystery-productions, and I always wonder the real reason for the call, if a real production even existed, and if anyone ended up actually working on it?
Been a consultant for more than 25 years and you made an excellent summary.
However, sometimes you need to Get Out, as the situation is not manageable. Often it’s a situation with impossible expectations, no clear assignment and no collaboration. If you are in the early phases of a large project, thinks are unclear and your job to to find out what’s possible.
This a great video Mr. Forsyth! These sorts of things happen in still photography also (or most other fields I would imagine) .Creating visual content is extraordinarily enjoyable and it is easy to be overly sensitive about stuff. Great advice! Thanks!
I’ve spent 5 years doing this type of work and everything he said was on point and I wish knew all of this day one. 🙌🏾
Thank you Luc! You're one of the most generous, helpful and inspiring "clowns" in this genre on youtube. I appreciate every little slice of information you're sharing.
Paused at 00:08 and read the blurry list of 10. Quick and easy. Thanks!
14:18 for the people who aren't as much of a boss :P
Nice collection of tips Luc. Thanks! Will share broadly.
Luc your channel has been my latest highlight lately. I wanted to share with you what your content impacts on other people is positive and feel you should know.
I've been trapped on a person project for years now, it's all in a mental place about high expectations and confusion on delivery, the narrative and the overall finished product. All the while, I've managed to still complete work for others and make a living, my passion project keeps being left on hold and I wish I could finish it so I could leave it behind instead of leaving it on hold. Have you ever dealt with that?
Very nice summary.. And be sure, same is right for the Software Industrie as well. I shared this video to a friend that started his Consulting Career a few month ago as an good advice.. - Cheers Sven
Luc, you did it again! You made another video about a topic we didn’t know we needed, but is super essential!❤
What a class! Thank you for the tips.
Thank you for this info, it feels like things are obvious, but when a job is over your shoulders and other people depend on you this list is hard to apply flawlessly.
I tell my kids - never let your attitude suffer. If you decide to make a change. Redouble efforts and always finish strong. You should never wish ill for anyone, but if greener pastures present, make sure everyone at your present gig misses you when you are gone. We’ve seen great results, and bidding wars have resulted in higher offers by all sides, often far beyond what anyone would have ever expected from asking for a raise or the normal annual performance review cycle. The secret is being consistently engaged, committed, agreeable to work with, and competent.
Great video, beneficial not only for videographers but also for general business communication.
Can we just all appreciate the exquisite timing of those two Succession clips? Honestly, I had to pause the video to laugh after the first one. The second one nearly broke me 😂
Thank you!
Loved this video; I’ve been working for under a year in professional settings and every time I walk on a set, the first day always throws me off because of the way certain clients and crew act, and I usually have to wait until the second or third day to really know if they’re hard to work with or just stressed 😂
Thank you... Mr. Luc Forsyth I have been waiting for this video and tips for long, I even was thinking about writing to you to post about some tips to manage clients... Anyway I love your videos and insights on film making.... If some day I am able to assist you ... ❤😊 Although if you need one...!
I had a buddy working as a PA he was on a particular demanding shoot and he is a pro through and through. They brought him in for what was supposed to be a 10hr day and he got fed up and walked out on hour 22.
Impressive, professional tips as always. Great to know.
This was super validating, well done 👍
Cheers so much great advice 😊❤
This is all solid information that we all need to apply. Setting expectations and rates in writing at the start are tasks that need to happen to avoid problems down the road. Soft skills are as important as technical skills. Your clients will respect you and perceive you as professional. If they don't, that's a red flag that suggests this is a client to avoid. Over time you recognize the good clients from the problem ones. The upshot of this leads to better clients, better projects, better money and less stress.
Really appreciate you sharing these experiences and helping us navigate the freelance filmmaking journey.
Thank you for this❤❤
Luc, thank you for this video. I walk away from my last job. I have doubts about my decision. On the other way they threated my with violance and death - that is too much to be cool.
Thank you. Extremely informative .
Thank you for the advice..... I can use these every now and then...
Not glamorous but important! Another banger video
My stomach is in knots listening to this! I used to work in Hollywood and I lost thousands of dollars by not getting paid for my work. Get things in writing! Don’t trust verbal agreements with your friends and/or acquaintances!
regular teamwork would help with clients thanks for the informative tips Luc
Great advice.
This is sooo true! Thank you!
Love this show! Thank You
Solid advice!
This is much better advice than the popping open a bourbon bottle approach that I usually take.
wow, you most definitely were inspired to make this after working with us.
Thank you for your service, Clown 😂 your videos are always great.
Great video as always Luc. Akim K
great thoughts! The slight chromatic aberration on the text looks so good, how’d you make it?
Testify Brother Luc, testify!!!
Clients are easy. Just produce an imax quality product for like 50 bucks - oh and make sure you set aside an entire year to shoot their 30 sec Facebook video. 😂
Skype practical. Good points. Thanks for sharing
This times well.. I just got back from a short film shoot with a privat budget of a few tausend euros and I got on set and the "DP" didn't know what exposure is or what to set the shutter angle. I just tried my best holding myself together but I CANNOT stand this as an AC when the rest has no idea what they are doing
Thank you.
Clients outside of some annoying edit changes, which I ended by charging after 3 edits, my biggest issue was actually people I had to work with. Big egos, and bosses screaming at me. It can be hard to know what your getting into when getting hired somewhere. Especially with the nda ness of our industry.
can these tips apply to relationship advice as well?
at 6:58 you meant to say without** right?
Professionals like to work with Professionals. Most clients are NOT professionals. Most clients are ignorant children asking for everything that comes to their tiny little mind.
I think the best thing to do is have a couple of projects ideas and niche into that. They get something like the series of things you have already made. You make the rules and have a firm price. You dictate what you need. There is room for creativity, and ideas can be talked about, but make it clear that your the director/producer and you always have the final say. Always.
Literally ALL businesses have difficult clients/customers. I will sometimes fire clients if it gets too bad, but for the most part I let the bad ones roll off my back. 😂
I couldn't say it better.
If you want to be happy in your film making career, this is the MOST IMPORTANT video you could watch
Great tips. But it still seems like the people who hire you kinda own you, and as a professional you always have to do all the extra stuff they ask, suck up whatever the say to you, and never give any suggestions, or God forbid, point out what they ask is beyond the scope of the initial agreement and is worth extra dollar. After that you become difficult to work with and whatever you do you're dead to them, despite overdelivering and other merit you may have built...
I don't recognize him without his glasses. Is that Luc? 🧐😂
wish I'd seen this video one year ago
🙏🏼🫂
Can I get mad if I am the client?
Promise 80, deliver 120
Mucho goodo top tips! Good stuff!