What an interesting video, I actually played and beat this game as a kid. I didn't know there was any type of community for such an obscure game, much less such drama! Thank you for sharing!
Interesting vid. i watched birdmann on twitch for pretty much all of his run attempts and the "run". he planned things and tested pretty dang hard so i can understand not being happy with a sudden wr from somebody already known to be into shenanigans. Still a shame. i had wondered why he stopped with inindo and streamed league for a bit, then just straight up stopped streaming. wouldnt talk to me either after all the months we chatted in his stream. I dont think any of this was handled very well but eh, thats life.
It's unfair and wrong, but it's just the way life is. Maybe he's watching bird videos, it would be a much better use of his time. These speedruns are fun to watch, but worth absolutely nothing. Go lift some weights, do some Brazilian Jiu Jitsu or run 10 miles. I wish I could.
Time doesn't pass in dungeons and you fully heal MP/HP upon level ups. So I spend time in the first dungeon till lv.10 and second dungeon till lv.15. I try to get five levels per dungeon though that does slow down towards the end.
I never beat this game but I did get to the second to last dungeon. I knew it was because the story elements led me to this one last place, before I was to go to the last place.. and the power curve was larger there and I then found another game that took up my time - shengen the ruler.. yeah I loved games like these and like those. Anyway I did love getting the two legendary iga ninjas as your +1 and +2 persons.. though I have to admit the hermits were great healers. The bingo game.. I actually filled up the card. Yes it's easier with save states but I was playing on NES hardware and you don't get the special x5 space unless the game tells you you can, not if you click the right spot.. it's hard to explain but if you're playing the RNG seed may say 'no' on this no matter what you do and 'yes' but you'll have to know which number to click on.
Weird situation where both could be correct. Maybe he did cheat, but if it's within normal variance you can never prove it. Leaving the scene because of that feels like a weird, tantrum-like power play. Bird Man let ego get the better of him imo. Still, the clear cheating in the first submission really makes things less straightforward...
as tha WR holder for ROTK2 by KOEI for tha SNES, im glad we dont have this noise in our community. we like tha competition and totally respect each others skills. aaron2u2 is a stone cold pimp.
No idea. I think the existence of the editor tool makes it super super simple (click a few buttons, output rom, play it). However, I could see someone with the skillset doing so for any game of the era if they cared enough quite easily.
THIS is a video game. Got it for Christmass in like 94 .. and always thought it was the best Christmas gift i ever got for sure .. under Lord Jesus atleast.
THERE NEEDS TO BE MULTIPLE HACKS OF THIS GAME .... LIKE AN ABILITY TO ACTUALLY GET A SHOGUN TO TAKE OVER JAPAN (LIKE NOBUNAGAS AMBITION FOR INSTANCE) .. THAT WOULD BE 🙄💥 BUT NOOOO DO NOT `SPEED RUN` THIS GAME. SIP IT LIKE FINE WINE , BELIEVE ME.
Without knowing Birdman it's hard to tell if his reaction is a temper tantrum, or legit anti-cheating boycott. Either way I think it's a bit over board. I'd say you made the right call approving the run. Based on what you know if it seems legit stand by it. I'd like to think the initial balance changes was unintentional. Unless something else comes to light to show otherwise. It's a shame you lost a runner over gaining one.
@@CaryPalmerr Verifying the emu runners' MD5 hash sum on their ROM (before or after the run, to show the file path is correct and the same rom is being loaded and showing its MD5) should be all the info required. It's a few hoops more (capturing a screen region rather than only the emulator, unless there's an emulator with an option to show its rom's file hashes on load) but it would be the easiest way to prove it's not altered beyond any doubts. Most emulator users don't dump their own ROMs so the MD5 should match with what's circulating on ROM sites or in ROMsets. If it doesn't match, it's been altered in some way.
I mean you tried the run yourself, and it seemed doable, then perhaps it's not cheating. But it is very suspicious. I don't think birdman handled the situation correctly, but I am inclined to agree he may have cheated if the first one he submitted a week before WR had cheats. How bizarre. I think the only way to really fix the situation is ban emulator runs.
An adjusted ROM can also be played on real hardware and banning emulators only limits the amount of potential runners. I think you accept runs in good faith and if there is cheating, you hope the community can catch it.
@@dragoon_zero What about showing the ROM's MD5 hash at the start of the run, and recording emulator startup showing that specific ROM is being loaded? It'd be fiddlier (since you'd have to capture a region of your screen rather than the emulation window alone) but if a ROM is modified, its hash becomes different from the ROM dumps available (and most emulation sites and ROMsets use the same 1-2 ROM(s), so it's just a matter of knowing which ones are correct. And as far as I can find out, there's no way to specifically modify a file's MD5 sum to a specific MD5 without it being an identical copy of the other.
![Inindo : Way of the Ninja - Any% [3:38:44] (Speedrun World Record)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yr8zLQMdG-4/mqdefault.jpg)
!!! UPDATE !!!
There's a new fastest time.
ua-cam.com/video/yr8zLQMdG-4/v-deo.html
What an interesting video, I actually played and beat this game as a kid. I didn't know there was any type of community for such an obscure game, much less such drama! Thank you for sharing!
I really enjoyed this video! Nice job. Its like videogame investigative journalism at its finest. I can see this being a podcast .
thanks my friend. Thankfully I've not encountered this much drama elsewhere but if I find some, I'll look into some more videos lol
I love this game despite its flaws
Me too
Interesting vid. i watched birdmann on twitch for pretty much all of his run attempts and the "run". he planned things and tested pretty dang hard so i can understand not being happy with a sudden wr from somebody already known to be into shenanigans. Still a shame. i had wondered why he stopped with inindo and streamed league for a bit, then just straight up stopped streaming. wouldnt talk to me either after all the months we chatted in his stream.
I dont think any of this was handled very well but eh, thats life.
It's unfair and wrong, but it's just the way life is. Maybe he's watching bird videos, it would be a much better use of his time. These speedruns are fun to watch, but worth absolutely nothing. Go lift some weights, do some Brazilian Jiu Jitsu or run 10 miles. I wish I could.
Time doesn't pass in dungeons and you fully heal MP/HP upon level ups. So I spend time in the first dungeon till lv.10 and second dungeon till lv.15. I try to get five levels per dungeon though that does slow down towards the end.
I never beat this game but I did get to the second to last dungeon. I knew it was because the story elements led me to this one last place, before I was to go to the last place.. and the power curve was larger there and I then found another game that took up my time - shengen the ruler.. yeah I loved games like these and like those.
Anyway I did love getting the two legendary iga ninjas as your +1 and +2 persons.. though I have to admit the hermits were great healers.
The bingo game.. I actually filled up the card. Yes it's easier with save states but I was playing on NES hardware and you don't get the special x5 space unless the game tells you you can, not if you click the right spot.. it's hard to explain but if you're playing the RNG seed may say 'no' on this no matter what you do and 'yes' but you'll have to know which number to click on.
Weird situation where both could be correct. Maybe he did cheat, but if it's within normal variance you can never prove it. Leaving the scene because of that feels like a weird, tantrum-like power play. Bird Man let ego get the better of him imo.
Still, the clear cheating in the first submission really makes things less straightforward...
as tha WR holder for ROTK2 by KOEI for tha SNES, im glad we dont have this noise in our community. we like tha competition and totally respect each others skills. aaron2u2 is a stone cold pimp.
interesting. is this common in other games? like you'd think someone could do rom hacks of any game to subtly change things that nobody would notice.
No idea. I think the existence of the editor tool makes it super super simple (click a few buttons, output rom, play it). However, I could see someone with the skillset doing so for any game of the era if they cared enough quite easily.
THIS is a video game.
Got it for Christmass in like 94 .. and always thought it was the best Christmas gift i ever got for sure .. under Lord Jesus atleast.
THERE NEEDS TO BE MULTIPLE HACKS OF THIS GAME ....
LIKE AN ABILITY TO ACTUALLY GET A SHOGUN TO TAKE OVER JAPAN (LIKE NOBUNAGAS AMBITION FOR INSTANCE) ..
THAT WOULD BE 🙄💥
BUT NOOOO DO NOT `SPEED RUN` THIS GAME.
SIP IT LIKE FINE WINE , BELIEVE ME.
@@JasongCLJ I made a new category for Conquer Japan%
You already know how that looks 😂
Without knowing Birdman it's hard to tell if his reaction is a temper tantrum, or legit anti-cheating boycott. Either way I think it's a bit over board. I'd say you made the right call approving the run. Based on what you know if it seems legit stand by it. I'd like to think the initial balance changes was unintentional. Unless something else comes to light to show otherwise.
It's a shame you lost a runner over gaining one.
Make Emulator runs a seperate category, ez
If they're cheating, the emu leaderboard would have the same problem no?
@@CaryPalmerr Verifying the emu runners' MD5 hash sum on their ROM (before or after the run, to show the file path is correct and the same rom is being loaded and showing its MD5) should be all the info required. It's a few hoops more (capturing a screen region rather than only the emulator, unless there's an emulator with an option to show its rom's file hashes on load) but it would be the easiest way to prove it's not altered beyond any doubts.
Most emulator users don't dump their own ROMs so the MD5 should match with what's circulating on ROM sites or in ROMsets. If it doesn't match, it's been altered in some way.
I mean you tried the run yourself, and it seemed doable, then perhaps it's not cheating. But it is very suspicious. I don't think birdman handled the situation correctly, but I am inclined to agree he may have cheated if the first one he submitted a week before WR had cheats. How bizarre. I think the only way to really fix the situation is ban emulator runs.
An adjusted ROM can also be played on real hardware and banning emulators only limits the amount of potential runners. I think you accept runs in good faith and if there is cheating, you hope the community can catch it.
@@dragoon_zero What about showing the ROM's MD5 hash at the start of the run, and recording emulator startup showing that specific ROM is being loaded? It'd be fiddlier (since you'd have to capture a region of your screen rather than the emulation window alone) but if a ROM is modified, its hash becomes different from the ROM dumps available (and most emulation sites and ROMsets use the same 1-2 ROM(s), so it's just a matter of knowing which ones are correct.
And as far as I can find out, there's no way to specifically modify a file's MD5 sum to a specific MD5 without it being an identical copy of the other.