I know it’s not an in camera meter, but I have an English Weston Master II that’s still spot on giving me the same reading as my modern Sekonic at 70 years old this year. Great video as always David.
Thank you! I tend to think that the hand-held meters, especially those that use a chemical reaction, are accurate a great deal longer than in-cameras meters if stored correctly. They were built a bit more robustly.
Great video, great companion to the Test optimum film ISO video. Having a standard to work from can be very useful to test old equipment and adjust it to you needs.
I have several film cameras. Nikon FG, Nikon FE2, Canon A1 and Canon AE1. I find the Canons tend to overexpose but the Nikons are dead accurate. Just my two cents worth. Great video as always
That's a big repair that needs some technical expertise. If your camera is worth the repair, it's worth sending to a professional for that. If your camera can take photos without the light meter working (for instance, if it does not need a battery to operate), then you can use a hand-held light meter or smartphone light meter app and set the shutter speed and aperture manually from there.
I found that the use of modern equivalent batteries in my Nikon Ftn Photomic camera does result in the meter reading being slightly off..by about a half stop..from meter readings taken of same subject, with same lighting, same lens, and same ASA/ISO setting as my Nikon FM and FG cameras. So I simply 'fudged' the ASA/ISO setting on my Ftn until the meter reading agreed with my other cameras. Whether or not that will be constant and linear across different film speeds remains to be seen.
Yes, they will throw off the meter. And modern batteries don't have a steady current like the old mercury batteries, so the amount they throw off the meter will vary as they age. A fresh modern battery ought to underexpose images by two stops. A battery that's about 3.4 dead ought to match up pretty well to accurate, if I recall correctly. The two-stops under for a fresh battery I'm sure of, however.
@@DavidHancock Thanks for that very useful info. I will keep that in mind. Yesterday I went out to shoot some photos..took the Ftn and the digital camera. Both were set to same ASA/ISO (the Ftn ASA/ISO setting is 'fudged' a bit as I alluded to in previous comment) and I used equivalent lens focal length on the digital. The digital camera meter pattern is set for 'center weighted'. (it's a Fujifilm X100F) I took meter readings with the digital first, took note of the lens aperture and shutter speed as indicated by the digital camera, then metered the same scene with the Ftn. In every case the Ftn meter reading was dead on with the digital or within a half stop or so. In other words I used my digital camera as a back-up light meter. I'll know for sure when I get the prints back.
My Nikons, going back to the early F's and F2's are still reliable; the Canon Ft and F series still trustworthy; Pentax Spotmatics had averaging meters, so it was always meter and use your judgment. Pentax LX and MX are generally right on. The Minolta SR-T's had a bottom weighted meter and once one figured out that it was great for landscapes and learned where to meter everything else, all was good. My SR-T 201 is still a great carry camera when I compensate exposure for non-mercury batteries. My X-Series Minolta's are still deadly accurate. All of my Konica's and Praktica's are very good. I'm sure that I've missed some, but when I'm packing a bag, I always include either a Sekonic or Gossen hand held meter for those times when sunny 16 just will not work.
Thank you! The CineStill stickers (I think at the time I filmed this all except the 10K subscriber sticker was from CineStill) came from backing the 120 on Kickstarter or GoFundMe, whichever service they used for the effort.
Hi David! I have an old spotmatic with a built in meter and I’ve been using a light meter app and they both show different readings. What should I rely more upon?
Your best bet is to compare them to the Sunny 16 rule. In full sun with the sun behind you, take a meter reading it a tree, bush, sidewalk, something neutral toned. The shutter speed should be your film speed at f/16. Trust whichever is closer. My guess is that one of the two meter cells in Spotty is dead as that would cause faulty readings that are way off.
Hi Dave. Maybe you’ve answered this question in the past. But why does color negative film have to have an orange mask? Why can’t it be just the negative version of slides? Thanks, Dave.
I think the cyan mask, that murky salmon tint we see on the colour negative materials, blocks red from penetrating the blue and green layers.... I think...
The one in my Minolta X-700 is pretty accurate, and it seems the shutter speeds are quite spot on. Accurate enough to expose Velvia 50 and Provia 100F pretty much perfectly, not bad for a 35 year old camera that spent more than 20 years unused.
Probably differently calibrated or different metering zones, or both. The older F2 mete may be weaker or (if those use the older mercury batteries) the batteries could play a role. One stop is within the tolerance of most modern films, so you should be okay.
That does not apply to film cameras that are have automatic metering. The f stops are determined by the meter. Even more so with motion picture cameras that are automatic. The shutter speeds are fixed at 30-35 fps and the aperture is controlled by the selenium meter. Your exposure will over exposed and the film wasted, so it matters.
@@DavidHancock Yes, I only commented after trying to buy a movie camera that actually worked. I made the mistake of buying and returning many auto exposure cameras that had failed meters. They all needed service. The silver on the selenium cell deteriorated over time. I finally bought two nice manual aperture controlled versions that use a crude disc mechanism with different hole sizes that appear in back of the lens. Crude but works well. Now I have a double 8mm and a 16mm with manual controls. Thanks for uploading the subject. It really is an important one to discuss seeing how much film, processing and scanning costs these days. You really have to make a story board about what you plan to shoot. Just like in the days before digital. Watch the making of the film The Shining. It’s a good example of film shooting and planning out each shot. Thanks for the upload.
get a black cat exposure guide, throw away the meter :0 after a few months experience you wont even need to get the black cat guide out of your camera bag
Light metering is so difficult to me and I don't really trust my phone or my built in camera meter that only works half the time. I'm thinking of buying an external light meter, maybe the Sekonic L208. Do you know anything about this one or have any other light meter suggestions?
For light meters, if you're in full sun, the Sunny 16 rule will work. I have never used the Sekonic L208, but in general Sekonic makes very good light meters.
Very nice video. At 1:30ish you say that there are no batteries that fit where mercury batteries used to be used - and give correct meter readings. What about the more recent zinc-air batteries? I've seen reports that they're equivalent (supposedly a close match of electrical behavior) and are entirely fine. The zinc-air cells are the same 1.3 to 1.35 volts as the mercury cells, and have the same fall-off characteristics as they approach their discharged state.They're reputedly instrumental in rehabbing old hand held meters and all the rest of the stuff that call for mercury cells. Is what I hear wrong, or are you, along with apparently hundreds of thousands (or millions?) of others, at a loss because there was a usefulness gap, in time, between the banning of mercury cells and the times when zinc-air cells became available? After all this would have prompted many to shelve, forget the old gear, get new stuff etc. to the point that no attention was spared in the search of something they'd never heard of. I'm repairing my friend's Miranda Auto Sensorex EE, which has metering issues. I can't yet know if the newer type of cell is REALLY a valid substitute, and a bench power supply will be my go-to power source as I bring the unit's metering back to life - the zinc-air substitute being the last thing that goes back in the body after I reestablish operability. I'm in no position to doubt what you're saying yet, but I hope you're wrong. This will seem to miss your point that mechanical operability is where it's at. There's a slight, almost grating, drag (it doesn't feel quite right) during film advance. Mechanically, the unit needs cleaning and lubrication - it's fine otherwise..... aside from the metering. The metering matters for him because he's not a sunny sixteen kind of guy, at least not yet.
The zinc-air will work andgive a proper reading, yes. I tend to not like them or recommend them due to cost and relatively short useful life compared to other options (like an MR9 voltage-adapting adapter, ISO compensation, or voltage circuitry modification.) The Fix Old Cameras channel has a good video showing how to modify circuitry (I forget which camera model they use) and the process is basically the same in each camera, but with the resistor in a different place. Back in the day when HG cells were banned, that would have been a viable repair option. But yes, mechanical reliability is more important. For a grating feeling when advancing, that could be either old mechanism parts or dirt in the system somewhere. I would think the latter to be the likely candidate.
@@DavidHancock Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I'll keep this in mind and migrate to the MR9 scenario as the zinc-air stuff goes south. Cheers, and Happy New Year.
this was just what I was looking for, thank you!
Thank you!
I know it’s not an in camera meter, but I have an English Weston Master II that’s still spot on giving me the same reading as my modern Sekonic at 70 years old this year. Great video as always David.
Thank you!
I tend to think that the hand-held meters, especially those that use a chemical reaction, are accurate a great deal longer than in-cameras meters if stored correctly. They were built a bit more robustly.
hey, I found an old Master V for dirt cheap, should I buy it?
Do you think it is still accurate?
@@kawamura6706 i got weston v in mint with case ebay one fifth of what i first paid YES
This is an excellent subject to cover.
Thank you!
Great video, great companion to the Test optimum film ISO video. Having a standard to work from can be very useful to test old equipment and adjust it to you needs.
Thank you!
Thanks for sharing David! Very helpful!
Thank you!
David; thanks for this, it was super helpful.
Thank you!
I have several film cameras. Nikon FG, Nikon FE2, Canon A1 and Canon AE1. I find the Canons tend to overexpose but the Nikons are dead accurate. Just my two cents worth. Great video as always
Thank you!
And yes, I've found that Canon cameras overexpose for me, too.
If they consistently overexpose why couldn't you simply adjust the ASA higher?
Little late to the party, but even my canon DSLRs overexpose.
So how do I fix it if it’s severely under or over exposing? Replace of of the cells? How? Is it expensive? Is it easy? Is it worth it?
That's a big repair that needs some technical expertise. If your camera is worth the repair, it's worth sending to a professional for that. If your camera can take photos without the light meter working (for instance, if it does not need a battery to operate), then you can use a hand-held light meter or smartphone light meter app and set the shutter speed and aperture manually from there.
I found that the use of modern equivalent batteries in my Nikon Ftn Photomic camera does result in the meter reading being slightly off..by about a half stop..from meter readings taken of same subject, with same lighting, same lens, and same ASA/ISO setting as my Nikon FM and FG cameras. So I simply 'fudged' the ASA/ISO setting on my Ftn until the meter reading agreed with my other cameras. Whether or not that will be constant and linear across different film speeds remains to be seen.
Yes, they will throw off the meter. And modern batteries don't have a steady current like the old mercury batteries, so the amount they throw off the meter will vary as they age. A fresh modern battery ought to underexpose images by two stops. A battery that's about 3.4 dead ought to match up pretty well to accurate, if I recall correctly. The two-stops under for a fresh battery I'm sure of, however.
@@DavidHancock Thanks for that very useful info. I will keep that in mind. Yesterday I went out to shoot some photos..took the Ftn and the digital camera. Both were set to same ASA/ISO (the Ftn ASA/ISO setting is 'fudged' a bit as I alluded to in previous comment) and I used equivalent lens focal length on the digital. The digital camera meter pattern is set for 'center weighted'. (it's a Fujifilm X100F) I took meter readings with the digital first, took note of the lens aperture and shutter speed as indicated by the digital camera, then metered the same scene with the Ftn. In every case the Ftn meter reading was dead on with the digital or within a half stop or so. In other words I used my digital camera as a back-up light meter. I'll know for sure when I get the prints back.
My Nikons, going back to the early F's and F2's are still
reliable; the Canon Ft and F series
still trustworthy; Pentax Spotmatics had averaging meters, so it was always
meter and use your judgment. Pentax LX
and MX are generally right on.
The Minolta SR-T's had a bottom weighted meter and once one
figured out that it was great for landscapes and learned where to meter everything else, all
was good. My SR-T 201 is still a great
carry camera when I compensate exposure for non-mercury batteries. My X-Series Minolta's are still deadly
accurate.
All of my Konica's and Praktica's are very good. I'm sure that I've missed some, but when I'm
packing a bag, I always include either a Sekonic or Gossen hand held meter for those
times when sunny 16 just will not work.
Quick question: where did you get that CineStill sticker? Also, very informative video, I'll be sure to check out the other video and the forum post.
Thank you!
The CineStill stickers (I think at the time I filmed this all except the 10K subscriber sticker was from CineStill) came from backing the 120 on Kickstarter or GoFundMe, whichever service they used for the effort.
Super helpful. Thank you
Thank you!
Hi David! I have an old spotmatic with a built in meter and I’ve been using a light meter app and they both show different readings. What should I rely more upon?
Your best bet is to compare them to the Sunny 16 rule. In full sun with the sun behind you, take a meter reading it a tree, bush, sidewalk, something neutral toned. The shutter speed should be your film speed at f/16. Trust whichever is closer. My guess is that one of the two meter cells in Spotty is dead as that would cause faulty readings that are way off.
Hi Dave. Maybe you’ve answered this question in the past. But why does color negative film have to have an orange mask? Why can’t it be just the negative version of slides? Thanks, Dave.
Oh that's a good question and I haven't answered it yet. I am adding it to the list for the next filming session (later this year.)
In thinking about it, not all of it does. The old Gold 200 was green and current Rollei CN-200 is nearly clear. So I don't know. But I will find out!
Thanks, Dave. And also thanks for your other videos. I learn a lot from them 👍😊
I think the cyan mask, that murky salmon tint we see on the colour negative materials, blocks red from penetrating the blue and green layers.... I think...
The one in my Minolta X-700 is pretty accurate, and it seems the shutter speeds are quite spot on.
Accurate enough to expose Velvia 50 and Provia 100F pretty much perfectly, not bad for a 35 year old camera that spent more than 20 years unused.
The X-700 cameras have held up extremely well.
any ideas why my hand held light meter is about one stop different than my Nikon f2 meter?
Probably differently calibrated or different metering zones, or both. The older F2 mete may be weaker or (if those use the older mercury batteries) the batteries could play a role. One stop is within the tolerance of most modern films, so you should be okay.
That does not apply to film cameras that are have automatic metering. The f stops are determined by the meter. Even more so with motion picture cameras that are automatic. The shutter speeds are fixed at 30-35 fps and the aperture is controlled by the selenium meter. Your exposure will over exposed and the film wasted, so it matters.
Thank you!
@@DavidHancock Yes, I only commented after trying to buy a movie camera that actually worked. I made the mistake of buying and returning many auto exposure cameras that had failed meters. They all needed service. The silver on the selenium cell deteriorated over time. I finally bought two nice manual aperture controlled versions that use a crude disc mechanism with different hole sizes that appear in back of the lens. Crude but works well. Now I have a double 8mm and a 16mm with manual controls. Thanks for uploading the subject. It really is an important one to discuss seeing how much film, processing and scanning costs these days. You really have to make a story board about what you plan to shoot. Just like in the days before digital. Watch the making of the film The Shining. It’s a good example of film shooting and planning out each shot. Thanks for the upload.
get a black cat exposure guide, throw away the meter :0 after a few months experience you wont even need to get the black cat guide out of your camera bag
That's an interesting thing. I'll check that out this year. Thank you!
Light metering is so difficult to me and I don't really trust my phone or my built in camera meter that only works half the time. I'm thinking of buying an external light meter, maybe the Sekonic L208. Do you know anything about this one or have any other light meter suggestions?
For light meters, if you're in full sun, the Sunny 16 rule will work. I have never used the Sekonic L208, but in general Sekonic makes very good light meters.
Very nice video. At 1:30ish you say that there are no batteries that fit where mercury batteries used to be used - and give correct meter readings. What about the more recent zinc-air batteries? I've seen reports that they're equivalent (supposedly a close match of electrical behavior) and are entirely fine. The zinc-air cells are the same 1.3 to 1.35 volts as the mercury cells, and have the same fall-off characteristics as they approach their discharged state.They're reputedly instrumental in rehabbing old hand held meters and all the rest of the stuff that call for mercury cells. Is what I hear wrong, or are you, along with apparently hundreds of thousands (or millions?) of others, at a loss because there was a usefulness gap, in time, between the banning of mercury cells and the times when zinc-air cells became available? After all this would have prompted many to shelve, forget the old gear, get new stuff etc. to the point that no attention was spared in the search of something they'd never heard of. I'm repairing my friend's Miranda Auto Sensorex EE, which has metering issues. I can't yet know if the newer type of cell is REALLY a valid substitute, and a bench power supply will be my go-to power source as I bring the unit's metering back to life - the zinc-air substitute being the last thing that goes back in the body after I reestablish operability. I'm in no position to doubt what you're saying yet, but I hope you're wrong.
This will seem to miss your point that mechanical operability is where it's at. There's a slight, almost grating, drag (it doesn't feel quite right) during film advance. Mechanically, the unit needs cleaning and lubrication - it's fine otherwise..... aside from the metering. The metering matters for him because he's not a sunny sixteen kind of guy, at least not yet.
The zinc-air will work andgive a proper reading, yes. I tend to not like them or recommend them due to cost and relatively short useful life compared to other options (like an MR9 voltage-adapting adapter, ISO compensation, or voltage circuitry modification.) The Fix Old Cameras channel has a good video showing how to modify circuitry (I forget which camera model they use) and the process is basically the same in each camera, but with the resistor in a different place. Back in the day when HG cells were banned, that would have been a viable repair option. But yes, mechanical reliability is more important. For a grating feeling when advancing, that could be either old mechanism parts or dirt in the system somewhere. I would think the latter to be the likely candidate.
@@DavidHancock Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I'll keep this in mind and migrate to the MR9 scenario as the zinc-air stuff goes south. Cheers, and Happy New Year.
U actually not a bad looking dude, i expected worse, bet girls melt when u walk down with your big and wide lens LMAO jk
Somewhat to my dismay, there is no significant groupie population for C-list photography UA-camrs.