5:54 it's due to the WATER atmosphere. All of your metal welding issues are due to that. Water (steam, actually) is quite reactive at this temperature. You have oxygen, hydrogen, and vaporized metal all getting into a reactive state before calming down and going to metallic hydroxides and more water vapor.
hho gas is an oxidizing flame you cant weld with it . Water is h2o which means you have a 2 to 1 ratio, this produces an extremely hot flame and melts nearly any metal you can think of but there is simply to much oxygen ratios used for welding brazing and soldering is more like a 4 to 1 ratio.
Hi, sorry for not responding. Yes, yes I know, I just wanna to try :) BTW I tried to melt 10mm diameter 50mm long tungsten carbide rod(milling tool) without success. I guess, that blackbody radiation was quite high...
Try using dry boric acid for your brazing flux. Heat the rod and dip it into the boric acid; it will adhere to the rod and as an arc welding rod. For stainless, you will probably need nickel silver rod, (actually nickel steel). I was hoping to use HHO flame for glassware, myself. Thank you.
I have never welded or cut anything with hho, but I have welded, silver soldered and brazed with oxy acetylene and if you dont clean down to bare metal and heat the two metals you will never weld anything! I think HHO would work very well for silver solder since you don't actually work a puddle, it could do work for welding too since it doesn't need a shielding gas, but I think adding an extra bubbler with acetone in it may change the gas ratio to a cooler flame...
I believe the brass explosions are from trapped water from the torch. The brass traps it and the excessive heat causes it to turn to steam and cause a small explosion.
Incorrect grasshoppa! The brass explodes due to it getting too hot! When I was first learning how to gas weld steel I used to explode the metal puddle all the time due to same issue. Got to control flame & how long it's applied to a given area! Hard to do that with such a hot flame!
one thing is sure, you are not a welder. when a welder wants to close a hole in steel they may cover it with a piece of copper because it will not stick ;) and yes the atmospere is very important in welding. mot welding processes use special gas flow to protect from surrounding air ... use a gas like argon. so yeah material choice etc are important. you can not just randomly weld everthing together like that
The best welding application for HHO is to weld aluminum, or kopper. No brass, steel or Stainlesssteel is possible ( I found) The flame is causing too much oxidation. Using an aluminum brazing flux and rods it is the only success I had… oh, and glass… it melts glass beautifully.
Copper when molten will dissolve oxygen gas which leads to those bubbles and voids you see. Most copper containing brazing rod contains something to remove the oxygen such as phosphorus or zinc and a flux to cover and clean the base metal.
YOU ARE NOT USING FLUX!!!!!!!! The flux eats through the surface of the metal so the brazing metal can go down into the parent metal with a capillary type action! You got to use flux
Problem is you need 4to 6kw to weld!! If you hook up a high pressure tank that builds pressure up to 90psi then you could weld! JUST MAKE SURE TANK IS STATIC PROOF! AND YOU HAVE LIKE 3 BUBBLERS AND 3 CHECK VALVES!! OR ELSE YOU WILL BE BUILDING A BOMB!!
My 3 MOT welder can weld steel with less wattage than that. If I want to weld with hydrogen, then I could just dunk a 6013 in water or expose it to humidity. After the cellulose in a 6013 absorbs enough water, then I could get a hydrogen flame while welding.
You missed the point of brazing.off course it exploded.The point of brazing or soldering is, you heat the metal to be brazed, then ler the brazing rod melt in beetween the metal to be brazed.And not heat brazing rod directly.And what i understand, the cone of your flame generated less heat needed.The flame should be bright in the inner cor and blueish in the outer core while yours red orange
there is some sodium fog in your gas flow, you need serious HHO gas postprocessing, wash with H2O in U-type bubler - that always work correct with flows, then use mix (1:1 H2O+acetone liquid mix bubler) for deoxidization of mix, (plain HHO burns in O2 containing environment(atmosphere) in excess of oxidizer - good for cut metals only), and probably you will reach deacidification too, if not, you have to put charcoal filter before last- acetonwater bubler, charcoal has extremely good adsorbtion for halogens like chlorine - it can collect it inside almost like liquid chlorine density, after some years you can heat charcoal in oven or so, outside(ventilation)- on high temperature clorine will evaporate giving rest - recycled charcoal with aceton-water bubler you will get MUCH BIGGER flame, and it is not fake size- aceton burns in air hotter than butane for example, in my bubler torch(frige compressor+bubbler with petrol and mixer of pure and fuel gases in needed proportion) i used many kind of fuels, isopropanol will work only with drying powder mixed - i used succesfuly Na2SO4 unhydrous, you can rehydrate copper sulphate or magnesium sulphate in oven - to get them unhydrous - copper sulphate show by blue collor when you need to rehydrate it again to white - anhydrous form,same with acetone - when bubbled with air flow - such fuels cooling down and sweat collecting air moisture - dissolving it, when isopropyl alcohol became 70% but not 100% - it can not give flamable gas in air bubbler... drying powder(you have to put half of glass for example - to get residue layer on bottom of bubbler, or maybe 30-50gm, and it will work long - when fuel cools and collect water - drying powder adsorb water and heats up - solving reason of problem equaly - in real time, anyway - you dont need it for hydrofobic fuels like petrol(naphta) - but it also cools - maybe it is even not good advantages of petrol - to discard moisture what i want to say - aceton much hotter in such application, not hot enough for iron melting, but gives fat size flame that easy melts glass in wide range of stechiometric deviation of your settings
beware - realy pure HHO explode much stable step by step style - for example you will stop it easy by water bubbler, but not with any kind of pressed grid, wire, shot pellets powder or so - flame will burns fast through it, but it stops by fiberglass braid from multimeter thermocouple - due to some impurities make flame yelow on contact with glass-fiber and flame loose its speed and stops there
@@IamJiva Hmm interesting.. I have created bit less wet method, but still not solid-state ua-cam.com/video/tf3uACV5q04/v-deo.html I am quite sceptical of stopping HHO flame by anything else than cutting it physically. Even if it would work, I would be paranoid still :)
as others have mentioned, flame is to oxidising, especially as steam reacts fairly well with iron to at those temperatures. not all flux is going to resist the steam so well, especially not fluxes which rely on generating an inert gass (like the stuff on welding rods). i would recomend a flux which acts primarily as a reducing agent and remains in liquid or solid phase, a good example is rosin flux (pine sap would act similarly). the rosin disolves oxides, reacts with stray oxygen and will resist the steam from coming into contact with the metal so much. you can clean the joint after with most organic solvents.
it is interesting, i am not so familiar with that particular alloy and cant seem to hear you mentioning it in the video. is it the brass which keeps popping or the copper you try on the mild steel?. P2O5 loves to grab onto water and form phosphoric acids, maby this is forming a powder coating which could impede wetting. high phosphorus alloys of steel are verry brittle so that could explain why it wasn't sticking after it cooled but not why it wasn't wetting.
Phosphor-copper was tested on mild steel in this vid, but it behaves the same on stainless... there www.reade.com/products/copper-phosphorus-cup-alloy they say, that it's used "As a deoxidant, alloying agent, brazing, wetting agent and as a nucleant among others" P2O5 is not applicable here... I think also, that many metal oxides are not quite stable at those temperatures... I didn't expect brass to explode. flux covered brass for example wetts the metal, and if heated a lot then it jumps and kinda explode, but in this vid it looks like id does nothing and then something triggers and it release energy. No reaction is evident and even that energy looks like pure kinetic energy so it's quite strange... On some forums they talked about explosions of brass, but all using oxy-acetylene and no one said oooh you don't know? That's because XXX. They are all like I dunno, maybe try this... Maybe I can repeat this experiment using flux and same rods and see what will happen. I am going to rebuild electrolyser so it doesn't look so sketchy and I will braze some steel square pipes for end plate support so we will see.
the reason it is a deoxidant is because the phosphorus is preferentially oxidised to P2O5(g) this could then deposit on the surrounding metal, it may be that the amounts formed are not enough to get in the way as i was describing. which clip is the phosphorus copper alloy used? i am struggling to tell the difference between that and the copper wire, i thought you may be calling it brass which is why i asked if that was what you were referring to. at high tempritures the oxides are taking part in a reversible reaction you are right, however in an oxidising environment they rapidly reform. the exploding brass is verry curious. it reminds me of bumping in superheated liquids.
yeah so 1:30 is electrical copper wire. 6:20 is phosphor-copper brazing rod. Today on YT: ua-cam.com/video/_30lR-nbpXg/v-deo.htmlm57s Zinc is boiling at 907°C, so maybe zinc content in brass is the answer...
When the hydrogen burns,the exaust is water, with such a thick heavy flame,it's producing a lot of water , the water is flash boiling on the molten metal! Poor water on molten metal, it explodes! Need a finer tip, which will cause u a hotter smaller flame, and less water exhaust to flash boil. This will help you big time! Thanks for the video!
Can you try this again if you still have it? Narrow the nozzle maybe a touch. Pull the torch back a few inches, go back and forth, in a z pattern, or draw little circles. Don't add the filler rod(and it looks like you're using arc welding rods?) until the metal has pooled. Torch welding is actually very slow, hence why TIG mostly replaced it. Try slowing down a lot, basically.
Problem here is, that the flame is not dumping enough energy into nominal area. Probably with higher pressure and more agressive flame, it would behave more like TIG, but I have'h got balls to try that. Must grow some :)
The auminum will react with any NaOH in water to produce hydrogen gas, sodium aluminate, and heat. That might explain the acidic reading on the litmus paper
Problem is, that sodium aluminate is alkaline. Even if there was hydrogen dissolved in water, aluminate PH would be more prevalent. But it actually may be just effect of dissolved hydrogen - it is quite soluble. I would have to test this..
You could do it if you didn't put the flame directly on top of the rods. Heating just the sheets with the rods behind the flame should take a little longer, but it wouldn't oxidize the welded parts. This is common practice with tin welding for electronics as well, always heat the parts, never the rods.
The problem is, that this generator is rated for 2kW so you can get I don't know say 1kW at torch. so you really want to use as much heat as possible. in video ua-cam.com/video/Gzxu_YCVHME/v-deo.html I am brazing without problems. Only difference is, that I am using rods with flux. And technique of course... Edit: wrong video :)
Perhaps you could add propane (camping fuel gas) to the system? As Truman mentioned, you need a negative oxygen balance to braze or weld metal. So perhaps adding propane could work to decrease the oxygen balance enough for this?
I do have propane bottle hooked up, maybe it's time to revisit this. Although it is quite clear, that you can do only brazing. For welding you do need much more energy in a flame.
Weld : Two metals are melted together with the use of a pool of molten metal. The shielding gas or shielding chemical stops the oxidation of the metals while under heat. Braze: heating two metals over 840 degrees but less than the melting point and joining them with another metal with the use of a flux to allow the joining metal to leach into the parent metals with capillary action
I've not seen many videos that explain how much HHO production is needed for working glass without a problem and how big an electrolyzer and LPM would be needed. Any idea of how many LPM are you generating and has the torch been satisfactory in terms of heating glass? I see you have a lot of problems with cracking. A reducing flame is usually the poor man's annealing, and given the 2 Oxygens for each Hydrogen, i can't see how you could get a reducing flame ever out of a HHO torch.
I have been using this exact cell for past year quite extensively as a hobbyist for glassblowing. I ordered about 20m of glass tubes with various diameters and I need to order another batch, because I have processed them all to make random equipment. I make mostly condensers, fractionating columns, drippers and gas drying tubes. In beginning I have made quite a bit of scrap, but now I feel quite confident to make what I need on first try. I have built annealing oven, but then I have never used it, because I have learned to work glass in a way that it is pretty stable (at least I like to think that it is :). There are some, I would say minor issues with the setup though. - It is quite low power. I run this cell at about 700W currently. I think it does about 10LPM. This is just barely enough to work with 30mm tubes on lathe. It is possible to do bigger stuff but you have to work in sections, which is not super great for internal stress in glass and it can crack even when cool at any moment. But I think think you can learn to do this safely though. Even for hobby work I would recommend at least design for 3-5kW and underrun it if you do small stuff. - Even with such low power, water heats up significantly after few(3ish) hours of work. Regulation would help, but I am not bothered by this fact enough. Also I should have used a bit more plates for better efficiency, but that probably wouldn't be significant. - So to get more power overall, cell would have to be physically bigger, with better water flow rate (is passive now). Plates could be a lot thinner though. I think I have used 0.8mm? I would go with 0.15 or even 0.08mm so I can cut them with scissors and punch holes on small-ish drill press. - I mix in a tiiiiny bit of propane that at best adds few watts, but then hydrogen combusts at low velocity and it is not quite concentrated in point I want to heat, so some heat is also wasted. This is mainly to prevent flashbacks though. (it definitely prevented a few :) - The way I did the seals wasn't too great. It does move over time and you can get even a leak. Mine is still fine after 2 years, but I should fix it soon. - For commercial application the size of cell would have to be very large at which point you have suddenly quite large volume of HHO gas in it. So either completely different design would be needed, or proper safety precautions must be met, like dedicated room for cells. Unfortunately I don't have experience with oxypropane, so I can't compare pros/cons. In general, if you have free electricity or don't want to mess with big bottles of propane, this stuff is OK for home player. If electricity is scarce (off-grid situation) other alternatives may be better. Alternative can be oxygen concentrator, which is also relatively cheap, but you still need propane. I have used about 2l of propane over 2 years, and this is not only for glassblowing but for various brazing jobs and stuff. I have used more water than propane, let me put it that way... I could do probably some update video on this topic, I have mentioned this is one livestream I think where I was trying some very early glassblowng. Maybe I have already answered this even here in comments somewhere...
Thanks for recommendation. I have already solved this by using rods with flux. However interesting is that pure copper wets base metal pretty well. Bigger problem in my case is excessive sheet metal bending. But this is probably due to high power of torch. First I want to make a new casing for system, put everything in some box and then I can play with power levels and stuff... Right now money is limitation for me so it may take some time... But the cell is placed in the middle of room so it is kinda priority for me :)
I'm glad you solved your issue. I'm also going to build hydrogen generator mainly for brazing work. One thing I will do differently than anybody else is to separate oxygen and hydrogen in order to prevent flashbacks.
Well there is such a thing - ua-cam.com/video/ULPxgxKaQt8/v-deo.html I was also thinking about that, but I was thinking about regulating oxygen, and that would lead to O2 pressure build up in O2 chamber and possibly leaking through membrane and so I decided to not go this way... Also if you design bubbler properly flashback is not destructive. But annoying(water gets in gas output hose). Thats for sure... And i Think that JDC man shows membrane material, but you can use shower curtains for separation - worked for me
"hydrogen embrittlement": At the beginning of vid. I melted welding rod. Yes, it was brittle, but it was melted. At 2:20 - that was test of ability to melt stainless steel, I couldn't melt SS. Instead it went porous. If you weld something with sticks or with CO MAG welded area will be porous... Not sure about TIG. However brazing with brass went OK without affecting steel very much. There is much more testing to be done with this so I am not that experienced.
your flame needs to pass through a bubbler that uses acetone or alcohol or naptha to act as a reducing agent for your welding and you need to strip off the flux from the rod! edit: since your gas seems to be containing Cl2 you need to add NaOH to your bubbler and include a sparger to act as a scrubber and that will also help add more reducing agent in your bubbler containing acetone
It can cut very well but it will never weld. The issue is that when you burn hydrogen and oxygen, you make water. Just try soldering a wet pipe. You can't. It will not stick. With HHO you are constantly wetting the surface from your flame. It is a very very very good cutter though!
@@gangleweed the gas coming out of the electrolizer is certain not dry, being close to 100% humidity. But it is unlikely to negatively effect the flame much if any.
@@kreynolds1123 When the gas which consists of hydrogen and oxygen burns the result is a flame at 2,800 deg C......water cannot exist at that temperature but when the burnt result is cooled down to below 100 deg C you will get water droplets forming.
@@gangleweed I think most people understand that liquid water can not exist above 100c, except under higher than 1 atmosphere of pressure. But to my point, it's comon to talk of water as water in its various phases. Frozen water and ice is water in its solid state, liquid water and or water absent context sugesting another phase is generally to be considered liquid water, and steam and humidity is water in its gaseous state, but it's still water with the same chemical formula. And, while the original commentator and I were referring to water the gas stream before the HHO gas is ignited, there is even more water in the flame and its exhaust because the byproduct of oxidizing 2 H2 is water + a lot of heat making it superheated water vapor.
its actualy working like an autogen welder so you have to melt the two metals together in order to have a good weld
5:54 it's due to the WATER atmosphere. All of your metal welding issues are due to that. Water (steam, actually) is quite reactive at this temperature. You have oxygen, hydrogen, and vaporized metal all getting into a reactive state before calming down and going to metallic hydroxides and more water vapor.
hho gas is an oxidizing flame you cant weld with it . Water is h2o which means you have a 2 to 1 ratio, this produces an extremely hot flame and melts nearly any metal you can think of but there is simply to much oxygen ratios used for welding brazing and soldering is more like a 4 to 1 ratio.
Hi, sorry for not responding. Yes, yes I know, I just wanna to try :)
BTW I tried to melt 10mm diameter 50mm long tungsten carbide rod(milling tool) without success. I guess, that blackbody radiation was quite high...
adding some propane flow can solve the problem i think
I've heard of people using acetone bubbler to make it less oxidizing and more reducing. Would that make a difference for brazing?
Try using dry boric acid for your brazing flux. Heat the rod and dip it into the boric acid; it will adhere to the rod and as an arc welding rod. For stainless, you will probably need nickel silver rod, (actually nickel steel). I was hoping to use HHO flame for glassware, myself. Thank you.
Pass the gas through gasoline so that it removes contaminants and pick up gasoline making flame stronger!! Also cools gas!!
I have never welded or cut anything with hho, but I have welded, silver soldered and brazed with oxy acetylene and if you dont clean down to bare metal and heat the two metals you will never weld anything! I think HHO would work very well for silver solder since you don't actually work a puddle, it could do work for welding too since it doesn't need a shielding gas, but I think adding an extra bubbler with acetone in it may change the gas ratio to a cooler flame...
I would like to see how well this would work for vitreous enameling.
I believe the brass explosions are from trapped water from the torch. The brass traps it and the excessive heat causes it to turn to steam and cause a small explosion.
Incorrect grasshoppa! The brass explodes due to it getting too hot! When I was first learning how to gas weld steel I used to explode the metal puddle all the time due to same issue. Got to control flame & how long it's applied to a given area! Hard to do that with such a hot flame!
one thing is sure, you are not a welder. when a welder wants to close a hole in steel they may cover it with a piece of copper because it will not stick ;) and yes the atmospere is very important in welding. mot welding processes use special gas flow to protect from surrounding air ... use a gas like argon. so yeah material choice etc are important. you can not just randomly weld everthing together like that
The best welding application for HHO is to weld aluminum, or kopper. No brass, steel or Stainlesssteel is possible ( I found) The flame is causing too much oxidation. Using an aluminum brazing flux and rods it is the only success I had… oh, and glass… it melts glass beautifully.
One has to use something to remove oxides from the surfaces of metal. And I also think that flow of HHO is too slow to make a difference.
Copper when molten will dissolve oxygen gas which leads to those bubbles and voids you see. Most copper containing brazing rod contains something to remove the oxygen such as phosphorus or zinc and a flux to cover and clean the base metal.
YOU ARE NOT USING FLUX!!!!!!!!
The flux eats through the surface of the metal so the brazing metal can go down into the parent metal with a capillary type action! You got to use flux
Try sanding and some Flux for the welds
The brass rod "exploding" is likely due to the zinc content and overheating it
I can bent a glass tube only with candle.
Problem is you need 4to 6kw to weld!! If you hook up a high pressure tank that builds pressure up to 90psi then you could weld! JUST MAKE SURE TANK IS STATIC PROOF! AND YOU HAVE LIKE 3 BUBBLERS AND 3 CHECK VALVES!! OR ELSE YOU WILL BE BUILDING A BOMB!!
My 3 MOT welder can weld steel with less wattage than that. If I want to weld with hydrogen, then I could just dunk a 6013 in water or expose it to humidity.
After the cellulose in a 6013 absorbs enough water, then I could get a hydrogen flame while welding.
You missed the point of brazing.off course it exploded.The point of brazing or soldering is, you heat the metal to be brazed, then ler the brazing rod melt in beetween the metal to be brazed.And not heat brazing rod directly.And what i understand, the cone of your flame generated less heat needed.The flame should be bright in the inner cor and blueish in the outer core while yours red orange
there is some sodium fog in your gas flow, you need serious HHO gas postprocessing, wash with H2O in U-type bubler - that always work correct with flows, then use mix (1:1 H2O+acetone liquid mix bubler) for deoxidization
of mix, (plain HHO burns in O2 containing environment(atmosphere) in excess of oxidizer - good for cut metals only), and probably you will reach deacidification too, if not, you have to put charcoal filter before last- acetonwater bubler, charcoal has extremely good adsorbtion for halogens like chlorine - it can collect it inside almost like liquid chlorine density, after some years you can heat charcoal in oven or so, outside(ventilation)- on high temperature clorine will evaporate giving rest - recycled charcoal
with aceton-water bubler you will get MUCH BIGGER flame, and it is not fake size- aceton burns in air hotter than butane for example, in my bubler torch(frige compressor+bubbler with petrol and mixer of pure and fuel gases in needed proportion) i used many kind of fuels, isopropanol will work only with drying powder mixed - i used succesfuly Na2SO4 unhydrous, you can rehydrate copper sulphate or magnesium sulphate in oven - to get them unhydrous - copper sulphate show by blue collor when you need to rehydrate it again to white - anhydrous form,same with acetone - when bubbled with air flow - such fuels cooling down and sweat collecting air moisture - dissolving it, when isopropyl alcohol became 70% but not 100% - it can not give flamable gas in air bubbler... drying powder(you have to put half of glass for example - to get residue layer on bottom of bubbler, or maybe 30-50gm, and it will work long - when fuel cools and collect water - drying powder adsorb water and heats up - solving reason of problem equaly - in real time, anyway - you dont need it for hydrofobic fuels like petrol(naphta) - but it also cools - maybe it is even not good advantages of petrol - to discard moisture
what i want to say - aceton much hotter in such application, not hot enough for iron melting, but gives fat size flame that easy melts glass in wide range of stechiometric deviation of your settings
THX for info, will keep in mind.
beware - realy pure HHO explode much stable step by step style - for example you will stop it easy by water bubbler, but not with any kind of pressed grid, wire, shot pellets powder or so - flame will burns fast through it, but it stops by fiberglass braid from multimeter thermocouple - due to some impurities make flame yelow on contact with glass-fiber and flame loose its speed and stops there
@@IamJiva Hmm interesting.. I have created bit less wet method, but still not solid-state
ua-cam.com/video/tf3uACV5q04/v-deo.html
I am quite sceptical of stopping HHO flame by anything else than cutting it physically.
Even if it would work, I would be paranoid still :)
as others have mentioned, flame is to oxidising, especially as steam reacts fairly well with iron to at those temperatures. not all flux is going to resist the steam so well, especially not fluxes which rely on generating an inert gass (like the stuff on welding rods). i would recomend a flux which acts primarily as a reducing agent and remains in liquid or solid phase, a good example is rosin flux (pine sap would act similarly). the rosin disolves oxides, reacts with stray oxygen and will resist the steam from coming into contact with the metal so much. you can clean the joint after with most organic solvents.
Yes I know. But it's interesting, that at 1:30 electrical wire wetted SS pretty well, but in same conditions phosphor copper alloy did not stick...
it is interesting, i am not so familiar with that particular alloy and cant seem to hear you mentioning it in the video. is it the brass which keeps popping or the copper you try on the mild steel?. P2O5 loves to grab onto water and form phosphoric acids, maby this is forming a powder coating which could impede wetting. high phosphorus alloys of steel are verry brittle so that could explain why it wasn't sticking after it cooled but not why it wasn't wetting.
Phosphor-copper was tested on mild steel in this vid, but it behaves the same on stainless...
there www.reade.com/products/copper-phosphorus-cup-alloy
they say, that it's used "As a deoxidant, alloying agent, brazing, wetting agent and as a nucleant among others"
P2O5 is not applicable here... I think also, that many metal oxides are not quite stable at those temperatures...
I didn't expect brass to explode. flux covered brass for example wetts the metal, and if heated a lot then it jumps and kinda explode, but in this vid it looks like id does nothing and then something triggers and it release energy. No reaction is evident and even that energy looks like pure kinetic energy so it's quite strange... On some forums they talked about explosions of brass, but all using oxy-acetylene and no one said oooh you don't know? That's because XXX. They are all like I dunno, maybe try this...
Maybe I can repeat this experiment using flux and same rods and see what will happen. I am going to rebuild electrolyser so it doesn't look so sketchy and I will braze some steel square pipes for end plate support so we will see.
the reason it is a deoxidant is because the phosphorus is preferentially oxidised to P2O5(g) this could then deposit on the surrounding metal, it may be that the amounts formed are not enough to get in the way as i was describing.
which clip is the phosphorus copper alloy used? i am struggling to tell the difference between that and the copper wire, i thought you may be calling it brass which is why i asked if that was what you were referring to.
at high tempritures the oxides are taking part in a reversible reaction you are right, however in an oxidising environment they rapidly reform.
the exploding brass is verry curious. it reminds me of bumping in superheated liquids.
yeah so 1:30 is electrical copper wire.
6:20 is phosphor-copper brazing rod.
Today on YT: ua-cam.com/video/_30lR-nbpXg/v-deo.htmlm57s
Zinc is boiling at 907°C, so maybe zinc content in brass is the answer...
When the hydrogen burns,the exaust is water, with such a thick heavy flame,it's producing a lot of water , the water is flash boiling on the molten metal! Poor water on molten metal, it explodes! Need a finer tip, which will cause u a hotter smaller flame, and less water exhaust to flash boil. This will help you big time! Thanks for the video!
Can you try this again if you still have it? Narrow the nozzle maybe a touch. Pull the torch back a few inches, go back and forth, in a z pattern, or draw little circles. Don't add the filler rod(and it looks like you're using arc welding rods?) until the metal has pooled. Torch welding is actually very slow, hence why TIG mostly replaced it. Try slowing down a lot, basically.
Problem here is, that the flame is not dumping enough energy into nominal area.
Probably with higher pressure and more agressive flame, it would behave more like TIG, but I have'h got balls to try that.
Must grow some :)
You need to use potassium hydroxide as your electrolyte, much better than sodium hydroxide
The auminum will react with any NaOH in water to produce hydrogen gas, sodium aluminate, and heat. That might explain the acidic reading on the litmus paper
Problem is, that sodium aluminate is alkaline. Even if there was hydrogen dissolved in water, aluminate PH would be more prevalent.
But it actually may be just effect of dissolved hydrogen - it is quite soluble. I would have to test this..
try using a proper brazing rod with phosophers in it like silver soder rod ect
You could do it if you didn't put the flame directly on top of the rods. Heating just the sheets with the rods behind the flame should take a little longer, but it wouldn't oxidize the welded parts. This is common practice with tin welding for electronics as well, always heat the parts, never the rods.
The problem is, that this generator is rated for 2kW so you can get I don't know say 1kW at torch. so you really want to use as much heat as possible.
in video ua-cam.com/video/Gzxu_YCVHME/v-deo.html I am brazing without problems.
Only difference is, that I am using rods with flux. And technique of course...
Edit: wrong video :)
Perhaps you could add propane (camping fuel gas) to the system?
As Truman mentioned, you need a negative oxygen balance to braze or weld metal. So perhaps adding propane could work to decrease the oxygen balance enough for this?
I do have propane bottle hooked up, maybe it's time to revisit this.
Although it is quite clear, that you can do only brazing. For welding you do need much more energy in a flame.
@@IlusysSystems Good to know.
Thank you for these videos, I've also wanted to build an HHO torch.
@@IlusysSystems bubbling through a hydrocarbon fuel like say acetone, not turns the flame into a reducing flame, but adds more energy.
what kind of hho machine you got there?
What do you mean? Not sure what are you asking for
@@IlusysSystems i mean you never show the generator that you built to produce the hho
@@ARCSTREAMS There is playlist for this system, I documented stuff while I built this, rather than one big video.
@@IlusysSystems i was looking at your ch vids and there is not much about details of the generator build but if you have it in play list ok thanks
Weld : Two metals are melted together with the use of a pool of molten metal. The shielding gas or shielding chemical stops the oxidation of the metals while under heat.
Braze: heating two metals over 840 degrees but less than the melting point and joining them with another metal with the use of a flux to allow the joining metal to leach into the parent metals with capillary action
I've not seen many videos that explain how much HHO production is needed for working glass without a problem and how big an electrolyzer and LPM would be needed. Any idea of how many LPM are you generating and has the torch been satisfactory in terms of heating glass? I see you have a lot of problems with cracking. A reducing flame is usually the poor man's annealing, and given the 2 Oxygens for each Hydrogen, i can't see how you could get a reducing flame ever out of a HHO torch.
I have been using this exact cell for past year quite extensively as a hobbyist for glassblowing. I ordered about 20m of glass tubes with various diameters and I need to order another batch, because I have processed them all to make random equipment. I make mostly condensers, fractionating columns, drippers and gas drying tubes. In beginning I have made quite a bit of scrap, but now I feel quite confident to make what I need on first try. I have built annealing oven, but then I have never used it, because I have learned to work glass in a way that it is pretty stable (at least I like to think that it is :).
There are some, I would say minor issues with the setup though.
- It is quite low power. I run this cell at about 700W currently. I think it does about 10LPM. This is just barely enough to work with 30mm tubes on lathe. It is possible to do bigger stuff but you have to work in sections, which is not super great for internal stress in glass and it can crack even when cool at any moment. But I think think you can learn to do this safely though. Even for hobby work I would recommend at least design for 3-5kW and underrun it if you do small stuff.
- Even with such low power, water heats up significantly after few(3ish) hours of work. Regulation would help, but I am not bothered by this fact enough. Also I should have used a bit more plates for better efficiency, but that probably wouldn't be significant.
- So to get more power overall, cell would have to be physically bigger, with better water flow rate (is passive now). Plates could be a lot thinner though. I think I have used 0.8mm? I would go with 0.15 or even 0.08mm so I can cut them with scissors and punch holes on small-ish drill press.
- I mix in a tiiiiny bit of propane that at best adds few watts, but then hydrogen combusts at low velocity and it is not quite concentrated in point I want to heat, so some heat is also wasted. This is mainly to prevent flashbacks though. (it definitely prevented a few :)
- The way I did the seals wasn't too great. It does move over time and you can get even a leak. Mine is still fine after 2 years, but I should fix it soon.
- For commercial application the size of cell would have to be very large at which point you have suddenly quite large volume of HHO gas in it. So either completely different design would be needed, or proper safety precautions must be met, like dedicated room for cells.
Unfortunately I don't have experience with oxypropane, so I can't compare pros/cons.
In general, if you have free electricity or don't want to mess with big bottles of propane, this stuff is OK for home player. If electricity is scarce (off-grid situation) other alternatives may be better.
Alternative can be oxygen concentrator, which is also relatively cheap, but you still need propane. I have used about 2l of propane over 2 years, and this is not only for glassblowing but for various brazing jobs and stuff. I have used more water than propane, let me put it that way...
I could do probably some update video on this topic, I have mentioned this is one livestream I think where I was trying some very early glassblowng. Maybe I have already answered this even here in comments somewhere...
You have no idea gow to weld xD
For brazing take a look at this video ua-cam.com/video/jjYehhXcDzs/v-deo.html You need to clean metals and use flux.
Thanks for recommendation.
I have already solved this by using rods with flux. However interesting is that pure copper wets base metal pretty well.
Bigger problem in my case is excessive sheet metal bending. But this is probably due to high power of torch.
First I want to make a new casing for system, put everything in some box and then I can play with power levels and stuff...
Right now money is limitation for me so it may take some time...
But the cell is placed in the middle of room so it is kinda priority for me :)
I'm glad you solved your issue. I'm also going to build hydrogen generator mainly for brazing work. One thing I will do differently than anybody else is to separate oxygen and hydrogen in order to prevent flashbacks.
Well there is such a thing - ua-cam.com/video/ULPxgxKaQt8/v-deo.html
I was also thinking about that, but I was thinking about regulating oxygen, and that would lead to O2 pressure build up in O2 chamber and possibly leaking through membrane and so I decided to not go this way...
Also if you design bubbler properly flashback is not destructive. But annoying(water gets in gas output hose). Thats for sure...
And i Think that JDC man shows membrane material, but you can use shower curtains for separation - worked for me
"hydrogen embrittlement":
At the beginning of vid. I melted welding rod. Yes, it was brittle, but it was melted.
At 2:20 - that was test of ability to melt stainless steel, I couldn't melt SS. Instead it went porous.
If you weld something with sticks or with CO MAG welded area will be porous... Not sure about TIG.
However brazing with brass went OK without affecting steel very much.
There is much more testing to be done with this so I am not that experienced.
your flame needs to pass through a bubbler that uses acetone or alcohol or naptha to act as a reducing agent for your welding
and you need to strip off the flux from the rod!
edit: since your gas seems to be containing Cl2 you need to add NaOH to your bubbler and include a sparger to act as a scrubber and that will also help add more reducing agent in your bubbler containing acetone
The yellow orange color looks like sodium is in the flame.
It can cut very well but it will never weld. The issue is that when you burn hydrogen and oxygen, you make water. Just try soldering a wet pipe. You can't. It will not stick. With HHO you are constantly wetting the surface from your flame.
It is a very very very good cutter though!
That is bullshit.....a hot surface will vaporise the water into steam before it can condense.
Much more research needed…nearly all the processes you have tried here failed because of lack of knowledge not the equipment..
Maybe it wont weld because of the water contained in the gas?
Certainly not enough power + oxidizing conditions in 1st place
There is no water in the gas......if you burn the gas and then condense the flame on a cold surface you will get water droplets forming.
@@gangleweed the gas coming out of the electrolizer is certain not dry, being close to 100% humidity. But it is unlikely to negatively effect the flame much if any.
@@kreynolds1123 When the gas which consists of hydrogen and oxygen burns the result is a flame at 2,800 deg C......water cannot exist at that temperature but when the burnt result is cooled down to below 100 deg C you will get water droplets forming.
@@gangleweed I think most people understand that liquid water can not exist above 100c, except under higher than 1 atmosphere of pressure. But to my point, it's comon to talk of water as water in its various phases. Frozen water and ice is water in its solid state, liquid water and or water absent context sugesting another phase is generally to be considered liquid water, and steam and humidity is water in its gaseous state, but it's still water with the same chemical formula.
And, while the original commentator and I were referring to water the gas stream before the HHO gas is ignited, there is even more water in the flame and its exhaust because the byproduct of oxidizing 2 H2 is water + a lot of heat making it superheated water vapor.
🤣🤣
Zero skill to welding