Well ... for an enthusiast, sure! But for someone who "just wants to play" at the optimum for his pc, I hope that there is an analyse algorithm for the pc hardware which chooses some descend settings by default.
It's funny and somehow heartwarming to see that old pre-launch menu. It reminds me very much of old 2000s eidos pc games and of course later SE, former Eidos PC ports. I love that nixxes hold on to that function. Kind of like when you see the inventory screen in modern Hitman titles and realize it's the exact same inventory as in the very first Tomb Raider game on PS1. Those relational threads are very interesting and it could be very cool to see a DF-Retro that maps them out. Kind of like those game-engine family trees that you can find online, but for developer houses or features that are almost definitely transplanted between titles across studio lines.
@@promc2890 might as well make it worth everybody’s while and reap the full benefits of the Nixxes acquisition. After the Elden Ring hype and demand for a higher fidelity port, Bloodborne Remastered for PS5/PC is just instant profit.
idk why but i have a huge feeling nixxes have already had a call from playstation and their next task is to port ghost of tsushima to pc. I just know that game is next.
I really like how far loading times have come. We've went from complaining 35 second loading times on the psp to comparing that the ps5 is half the loading time of the pc when booting. I love the times we're in.
Would be amazing if devs can fully eliminate load times like Mark Cerny said. Imagine just instantly respawning in the blink of an eye after dying in a Souls game.
@@weaverquest The thing is Ghost of Tsushima does that already on the PS4 but the devs INTENTIONALLY put a code on the game to make the loading screen last a bit longer for the sole purpose of letting gamers be able to read the tutorial screen. I think they got rid of it on the PS5 version. They also removed loading on RE8 on PS5.
@@weaverquest the time will come within the next couple generations of PC hardware. Mark Cerny was ahead of the curve with the implementation of their SSD and SSD controller. Motherboard manufacturers, AMD, and Intel are all working on solutions to do the same thing sooner than later. The only problem is that games need to be optimized to utilize that fast loading... so a lot of older games won't benefit unless someone updates/patches them (which would be harder than it sounds with older game engines).
Bro, Halo 2 campaign sometimes took several minutes! I’ve been rocking SSD’s in my PC for 10 years now, and those load times still haunt my nightmares.
I’m not a fan of Sony porting once PlayStation exclusives to PC, but strangely I’m also happy you guys on PC are getting to experience these great games. I think soon some games, like MLB: The Show will start releasing on PlayStation and PC the same day.
I don't think they will do day and date for awhile yet. The PS5 brand is propped up by their high quality single player games. Personally I think they are smart to port what they have since they have already run their financial course on PS. Why not port and polish them for PC? It doesn't hurt the PS owners in any way. I already bought this game twice and am tempted to do it again for PC, just for the excuse to replay on my PC.
The graphics menu interface from this game is something that should become industry standard it’s so good being able to see what the graphics settings look like ahead of time
Just started the game a few minutes ago after launch. If you're the type like me that does more with your PC than just game, and are a little slow to update your drivers... trust me, you need to for this one - otherwise the game will look wrong and you'll barely see anything but black models with bad lighting. Immediately noticeable from the very first cutscene.
Yeah I didn’t update my drivers since about February and I ignored the prompt to update and damn it really tanked. Updated then my 3070 ram about right
How far behind on drivers are you? I'm on a RTX 3090 on 516.59 (2022-06-28) and although there was the driver warning on launch, there were no conceivable problems graphics/performance-wise when I tested.
Thanks, as always for great content. Your graphical break downs are by far the best I have come across. The team at DF truly deserves the thanks of the gaming community as a whole.
@@cybercop3108 You misinterpreted me. I didn't say it was Fellipe's downfall but I said it was the Playstation's downfall. For me it's good that there are games on PC, because PC gaming is free. I don't need to spend any money.
Even though I already own this on PS5 I did pick it up again to run on the Steam Deck. Being able to run games like this natively on a handheld is still absolutely amazing to me. With Uncharted and Last of Us next on the port list it’s the closest thing we’ll have to a modern Vita, along with everything else it can do.
lmao, dont expect miracles, evidently the pc ports of uncharted especially looks like having quite a few issues, thats why they havent been released since announcing it during january this year
@@joey199412 honestly standard out of the box settings, and then lock the deck to 30 fps and it holds rock steady the whole time and looks fantastic. You can probably squeeze out a bit more. But even on low it never holds a solid 60. So your definitely better off going for good looks at 30
@@InFlamesor12 you are right but did you experience it or do you understand why is that. Optimization is not just a word and it's not simple as it's sounds. Optimization is heavy programming task which developers don't have because it's hard to learn and it's time consuming and it is hardest part in development of game .
No one does it like DF. That was a masterclass in analysis. Bravo. Love to see 100% cpu usage on all cores. Put that baby to work. My pc is ready. Gonna try to max it out at 4K and let vrr+ drs handle the dips. Can’t wait!
Not sure what your specs are but I am on a 10900k and 3080 and I have to use his optimized settings at 4k DLSS balanced and DRS set to 60. Some of the settings REALLY tank performance. The worst is setting ray traced reflection resolution to very high, I lose over 20 fps between high and very high.
I really hope DF makes a new section of analysis for "performance longevity", because a TON of these new games have "memory leak" issues that only show up after at least more than 15 minutes of gameplay, at least, when using ray tracing. This game, for example, has a massive performance degradation with RT turned on while web swinging, which only shows up with at least 15 minutes of swinging around quickly through the city. Frametimes go all over the place and the game has very noticeable stutters when web swinging close to the ground, along with generally much lower average fps. It may or may not be a memory leak, but it is an issue of some kind. I've tried turning down every setting to the lowest, but the only thing that fixes this (other than restarting the game) is to turn off RT entirely. It would be great if these analysis videos brought this issue to light. I'd recommend using multiple different GPUs with different VRAM amounts for this type of testing, because a lot of the texture quality recommendations made in these optimized settings don't hold up when playing for longer periods of time, since some of these games have bad memory management that show up over time and bring fps down to unplayable levels. Spider-Man doesn't seem to have a VRAM related issue (since turning textures to the lowest setting doesn't fix it), but other ray traced games absolutely do, at least on 8GB or lower GPU with RT capability.
This! I'm running this game on a 12700kf and 3080, and when I first launch the game, I get 80-100 fps at 4k with RT+ DLSS, but after enough time playing I will get drops to 60, even 45, causing noticeable stutter. The performance of the game absolutely degrades over a play session, which should not happen. I think the above poster is commentor is correct - that if you turn off Ray tracing the problem goes away.
Cyberpunk 2077 has a VERY similar issue, I find myself having to restart the game every time I go into a very dense area just to recuperate my frame rate…restarting the game *usually* resets the frame rate and GPU usage so maybe try that for now on Spider-man? Perhaps a potential fix for now, I’m sure performance patches are incoming considering this game dropped maybe a week or two ago.
Finally someone mentioning it, I'm running this game using a 12400f and a 3060ti, which technically would be enough for me to run the game with the amazing ray tracing preset from the specs chart, and I can do it but after 15-20mins swinging the game starts to stutter like crazy, I even tried to lower the textures quality to high and it still happens
interesting. after playing awhile, it couldn't have been more than an hour, there was a cutscene of peter and mj at a table or something, and then the game just decided it was done at CTD. which was disappointing bc i was actually getting into it
I’m glad people are starting to notice this shit so many games are having this issue and it fucking sucks so bad going from 100fps to dips in the 30s after 20 minutes
Great overview as always Alex! One thing to mention: it may be good to start testing Windows 11 for things like loading times. Although we don't yet have the GPU decompression part of DirectStorage or the direct SSD->GPU async transfer, we *do* have some of the CPU overhead reduction. BypassIO is a new Windows storage driver API and is what DirectStorage leverages under-the-hood on Windows 11; on Windows 10 even DirectStorage still goes through the legacy Win32 API. It'd be interesting to track the progression of games starting to use that API (either directly, or indirectly via DirectStorage) and any loading time implications!
It could also be the default Nvme drivers on Windows 11 as well. Don't know if this is only for 11, but I manually set my nvme ssd controller to use 4KB blocks natively instead of the default 512byte emulated blocks/sectors and saw a massive improvement on windows 11. Most NVME ssds support this, but you have to wipe your drive your drive to change this and you need to use a linux boot disk to run the nvme-cli commandline utility to change it. My phison e12 based inland premium ssd doubled the random write speed with a queue depth of 32 after the change. Apparently 512e is used by default due to the ability to clone from other 512byte sector drives like most HDDs. Sabrent's standard pcie 3.0 rocket also uses the phison e12 controller and used 4k native for the sectors for better performance, but was changed later to 512e stock due to people complaining about not being able to clone from their old hard drive or sata ssd.
I mean the load time difference is like a second. I will test it on my nvme 4.0 win11 system when I get a chance but doubt there will be a difference. FWIW, I noticed no load time change in other games when I switched to win 11 (clean install).
Windows 11 isn't even finished, and is missing several features present in Windows 10. No point in testing unfinished operating systems like that when nobody's going to bother using them. EDIT: Bruh, he says in the video that he didn't have a PCIe gen 4 drive to test. That's the bottleneck, not Windows 10. And it's only 1-2 seconds slower than PS5 on a mere PCIe gen 3 SSD anyway. We're still talking about less than 5 second load times here. Absolutely nothing to complain about, and certainly nothing to waste time with broken crap like Windows 11 over.
@@mjc0961 Windows 11 issues are entirely UI design. Under the hood some huge issues got fixed such as fullscreen optimizations using bitblt and not bypassing dwm.
They're always there for the ones that'll bring the most clicks or well paid like their Anthem marketing campaign disguised as various analysis videos when new and far better games were released.
@@ionseven idk how people have conspiratorial views about DF. They cover the biggest games at the time. Anthem was hyped up to be a huge release. We don’t know how good a game is going to be until it’s actually out. Also a game can be technically interesting enough to warrant multiple analyses while still sucking in gameplay. Also they have to get clicks, it’s the point of UA-cam. You try to point it out as some malicious intent. Wild.
This would have been a perfect chance to finally release a game on PC that makes use of Direct Storage and find out if that would have made a difference, especially seeing that CPU and SSD usage. Other than that seems like another great PC port from legendary Nixxes, especially given the complexity of the original game. Thanks for the video.
@@davepianist84 I have about 35% completion of the main story and it's very good. I've had just one hard crash during a puzzle and it put me right back at the same spot I left off and the rest has been flawless. Definitely the best webswinging of any spider man game I've played and I certaintly haven't mastered it yet. What I really like is at the beginning of the game there is no fast travel(you do get it a bit later) and instead of throwing all the map icons at you at once they give each to you 1 or 2 sets at a time. Thanks to that I've just swung around the whole city each time I get a new set of activities doing all of them before moving on to the next main story section and it's been great fun.
With a 3090, 5900x and NVME 6000MB/s drive I get around 70-84 fps while webslinging through the city at 4k max settings with DLSS quality. Some things to note. : Some textures fail to load quickly enough so it will look like a blurry smudge for 5 seconds or so before loading in the high res texture (even on a 6000MB/s NVME gen4 drive) : HDR is not working correctly and looked badly washed out like RDR 2 did at release (hopefully they fix it) : SSAO looks better than HBAO+ (HBAO+ for some reason is not working correctly) : This game is very CPU intensive (Even at 4k max settings my 3090 is being bottlenecked at 93% GPU utilization with drops to 84%, even with a 5900x with full 24 threads being utilized) : DLSS is oversharpening at lower resolutions so if you play at 1080p it may look too sharp : The game currently has a memory leak that will crash even a 3080ti with 12GB of vRAM but you may not notice it as much with a 24GB 3090/3090ti
I also have the 3090, but only the 5800x and SATA SSD. Im guessing I would get slightly lower FPS than you(also play in 4k), because of that 5800x, as this game is, apparently, CPU intensive, as we've been shown. Seems reasonable to me. I typically just aim for above 60 FPS, and however high it gets.....great, whatever lol. Thanks for the tips.
Insomniac are truly wizards at what they do. I still can't believe this is still technically a PS4 game, I've seen Ps4s go for as low as 100 bucks and it's just insane how bang for your buck and how much quality you get from optimized games and Sony exclusives for such a shitty and old hardware. The performance rt version on the PS5 already looks beautiful. I genuinely can't wait for spiderman 2, specially since I found out that the trailer for it was running in real time on a PS5 and most people even thought it was a cgi trailer because how good it looked lmao
Yeah it’s really interesting how the decompression block on ps5 frees up the cpu for RT. I think it’s mentioned but no one really believed it. You now have a easy comparison to see how much extra cpu power you need compared to the ps5 when you don’t have such a feature and the cpu is responsible for decompression.
@@Spencerwalker21 unfortunately they didn't but IGN did. I recommend you watch the video but if I remember correctly, they were able to play it at 1080p/30 fps at low to medium setting, comparable to the PS4 version of the game
Kinda surprised you guys didn't cover the Weather Particles setting (this game's volumetric fog), as it is one of the most demanding options in the game and has a big fps impact from Medium to High.
I love the fact that the complaint for the loading time is that it's 3 seconds instead of 1 second (It's a fair complaint, but it's still funny to me). I LOVE This generation.
Couple errors in the video. You can skip the intro videos with the controller. It's the B button on my Xbox pad. Skips them every time. And ultrawide isn't perfect out of the box because it screws up UI elements, like when someone calls you. The wave length graphic is misaligned and partially covers the image of the caller whereas it's confined to the left side in a box when playing at 16:9.
great review! these ports really show the gap in asset decompression we have on PC vs new consoles. cant wait until DirectStorage and RTX IO are finally implemented.
DirectStorage has already been made available, but I guess Spider-Man was too late in development to take advantage of it. Or perhaps shaving off like two seconds of load times simply wasn't worth it.
@@Thornskade DirectStorage is available but it’s not being used in conjunction with RTX IO(or AMDs own version of this) which is less about initial loading times and more about utilizing the GPU to help with asset decompression while playing the game. This review highlighted the major CPU load this game has and these new technologies will help a ton with this.
4:20 Shader compilation has SIGNIFICANTLY impacted the enjoyment of PC gaming for me. The ridiculous amount of stuttering in some games absolutely destroys any feeling of immersion. It's completely inexcusable. This is really great news. Day one purchase for me.
Tremendous work Alex I love your CPU limit analysis in particular. I think this is the first time we're seeing the sheer power of the PS5's cpu and decompression hardware vs raw PC CPU power.
I mean there are several potential causes for the high cpu load. It could be the less efficient nvme drivers on Windows 10 compared to 11, it could be the Win32 api, it could be the NTFS filesystem, or it could even be dx12 driver overhead considering this was tested with Nvidia cards. Some DX12 games have way more overhead than others on Nvidia and this might be an edge case with more overhead potentially similar to Halo Infinite or the newer Call Of Duty titles.
@@nepnep6894 sure, but the developer specifically notes that one of the main drivers of high CPU usage on PC is the CPU having to do all the asset decompression on PC which is handled by the custom I/O unit on PS5.
@@nickgovier exactly I found that very interesting as well. I wonder if other developers are making use of this on ps5 as the insomniac games show some serious heavy lifting of the ps5 compared to the PC equivalent gpu/cpu and nvme drives.
Even with a 8GB card, I found the very high textures can cause stutters. I'm using a 2070 super and 9900k, at the suggested settings, but with 1440p & DLSS quality mode and no raytracing. I'm testing this by walking back and forth on a long street. The VRAM spikes to over 7GB used, and that causes a visible stutter that can be measured by a frametime graph (msi afterburner). I used reload checkpoint and I found the stutters repeatable. Putting it down to high textures stopped those stutters and kept VRAM usage around 6.5GB, though it's hard to say if the VRAM reading from this software is correct.
Adrenaline is reporting 14-15GB Vram usage on my 6800XT with everything maxed out at 4k with RT. I haven't tried turning SAM off or messed with the various upscalers yet though.
With a 6GB card high textures are as far as I can go before fps tanks, but honestly can't find a huge difference between very high and high (Maybe some ground textures are _slightly_ lower res?), so it's not that bad even if you have to turn it down on an 8GB card.
@@theeternal417 Yeah it shows similar vram usage on my 6800XT but on my 3080Ti it shows around 10 - 11GB at 4K. It depends on the game and vram available.
@@TexelGuy yes same i mean everything it's maxed out on my 3060 laptop beside the textures , but it's not a problem because I don't see the difference beside high and very high , also my CPU it's violated with rtx lol
Looks like a pretty solid PC port and it looks like they are still working on it, fixing bugs and optimizing it. It's a shame that Direct Storage isn't use and I do wonder why it's taking so long for games to take advantage of it, especially considering that AMD and Nvidia have their own implementation of decompression on the gpu that works through Direct Storage. Another thing that I'm impressed by is how quickly they are patching the game, it's a nice touch that is very likely going to help game sales as it shows they are putting the effort into the game. As for the loading times, it's not that big of a deal considering you're only talking one or two seconds difference which in it's self is quite impressive considering it's not using Direct Storage. Also, credit to Sony, it looks like they are not messing PC gamers about and seem to be going all in with treating PC gamers well, again, that's a sure way to generate more game sales in that critical early window when the game price is high, which I always find it perplexing why so many publishers make a mess of games on release as that is only going to hurt sales in the early high profit window that they don't really want to lose those sales, I know of many gamers that buy games months or years later if the game is released in a bad state and that is surely costing these publishers a lot of money and good will and in this case, it looks like this game runs in a pretty decent state from the start. Also, it would be interesting to get some in-depth analysis of the game on the Steam Deck, others are reporting the game runs well on the Deck, but it would be great if DF takes a closer look at that.
Yeah. I think they're making 3 videos on this game. Rich I believe is checking it on on Steam Deck and mid to low range PCs. As Alex implied earlier in the video someone else is working on the comparison between Insomniac's Temporal Injection, FSR 2.0 and DLSS 2.0. From the one shot that was shown Insomniacs is better than FSR 2.0 but not as good as DLSS
> It's a shame that Direct Storage isn't used and I do wonder why it's taking so long for games to take advantage of it, especially considering that AMD and Nvidia have their own implementation of decompression on the gpu that works through Direct Storage. GPU Decompression hasn't been implemented yet by Microsoft and AMD & Nvidia's implementations are based on Microsoft's. The stuff to do with optimizing reading from an SSD has been implemented.
This is nothing new. PlayStation used to release games for PC back in the day and I'm not talking about Sony Online Entertainment... I said PlayStation and I mean *PLAYSTATION!* Back in the 90s I played many PS games on PC first like Overboard, WipEout and G-Police. While nearly a decade after those games launched I had PCs that could run those PS games maxed out I ultimately would've had fun just as much fun had I played them on PS first or even exclusively. PlayStation wasn't messing around then why would they mess around now? They're trying to sell games they want them to work properly no matter where they release even when they're on Xbox as is the case with MLB: The Show these days.
12:26 "very shadow quality" lol But seriously thank you so much for waiting to make this video instead of rushing it to publish. Doesn't seem like anyone else out there cares about up to date information, you know - something that would actually reflect what real world PC user would experience and therefore helpful, as opposed to just getting the video out as quickly as possible.
I just hope every PC port from Sony going forward is at this level, if anything it'll be praise towards Sony from the PC community for understanding our needs.
Some of us on the Steam forums figured out what's going on with HBAO+. The ambient occlusion menu options are labeled wrong! If you select Off you get SSAO. If you select SSAO you get HBAO+. If you select HBAO+ you get Off. I have screenshots to prove it. Really strange bug.
@@sharathvasudev Honestly Microsoft can do decent ports. Halo Infinite is still a decent port besides the internal framelimiter and vsync being bugged. The biggest issue is that the game is one of the most gpu vendor biased titles I'm aware of. The game seems to use execute indirect calls for culling on the gpu and RDNA1/2 both have something called nggc (Next-Gen Geometric Culling) for gpu culling and it seems to work wonders on halo infinite. RDNA2 also supports mesh shaders which halo infinite also utilizes. This results in the title being extremely AMD biased especially RDNA2 compared to older AMD gpus or any Nvidia gpu.
Playstation late-2020 : let us give PS5 Spider Man a 60 fps Playstation late-2021 : Let us give PS5 Spdier Man RT with 60-FPS Playstation late-2022: Let us give (PC) Spdier Man drops to 45 fps for any 2080ti & below Yeah right.. even as PS5 owner, I hate when Console gets better optimzations, while PC gets treated poorly
always amazing work. You can skip the intro video with a playstation 5 controller press O button. Also if you screw around with the race trace settings for too long switching them back-and-forth over and over again You may not get the performance that you would get if you restart the game It takes a long time of screwing around with settings for it to happen.
*We appreciate the delay to make sure you had all the Day 1 updates* and your proactive interactions with the Insomniac/Nixxes teams. Good job, Alex. 👍
Great video as always, wishing it was rendered in 4k like most other DF videos are. Easier to see the differences with higher resolutions. (If watching in 4k of course). Excited to finally play this game with high FPS on my 3080ti!
I think something's wrong with UA-cam's video processing here. If you check this video when it appears in search results, it has the 4K indicator, but it's still not available in the options for whatever reason :\
@@DeusGladiorum Thanks for explanation, I figured maybe UA-cam was being slow with its uploads (My vids always start at 720p then slowly get up to 4k after a day of so, but DF always seem to be 4k from that start). I figured being such a huge channel gave them priority somehow, or maybe they preload them and set a later date for debut allowing youtube time for 4k version to upload/process. Checking now (Aug 13 7pm EST) , this vid is finally 4k
Great video as aways. I believe that Traffic Density is how far the traffic movement goes. If you pay close attention, the very high shows cars moving from far away. On very low noting is happening.
Sometimes I feel like both Insomniac and Nixxes are too good at what they do. Something unnatural going on there. It’s also really cool to me that Sony has not oversold the claims on their drives and that they’re still holding up nearly two years later. After so much overpromising in console history, including by Sony, that is refreshing to see.
Have you guys just stopped uploading videos at 4K? These breakdowns are much more informative when I can see the differences you're trying to point out.
I will definitely be getting this, to play on my Steam Deck, though I will wait for it to be on sale, as I already played it on my PS4, when it was first released. Miles Morales will be a day 1 purchase though, as I have not played that yet.
they're offering features which most triple a games, let alone playstation exclusive games, implement. The way you can see the changes in real time and not having to restart is the best thing i've seen
Thanks for your tremendous work Alex! Was eagerly awaiting the upload, since their proprietary engine does an amazing job. Still: I bet I'm not the only one curious how much one can squeeze out of the Steam Deck though.. especially given how many different options are available to mess with. The next few days will be surely interesting...
If an rtx 2060 super can run at 75 fps at 1440p with high settings, a steam deck could probably do 540p with raytracing at 30 fps, although it may be able to do more than that
@@TheTrashman147 I can rest you assure that it's actually more than able to pull the stable 30 FPS off, although I'm working on something better right now. This is going to be a long night...
@@AJ-xv7oh Nearly everybody with press access had tested it on their Steam Deck. Still I'm more into squeezing the best possible performance out of it, but we'll surely get there.
It's just hugely impressive to me that despite all the details, you still get rather pleasant RT shenanigans on both the PS5 which is oh-so supposedly lackluster in that regard as well as on rather modest PC gpus. And at great performance metrics to boot. Insomniac are just wizards.
This is one of the ONLY ray tracing titles in which the ray tracing makes a major difference in visuals AND is optimized for most cards. I assume this is because the CPU does a lot of the heavy lifting compared to most RT games dumping it all on the GPU, but I could be wrong about that. In any case they should just make more games like this. Where ray tracing is accessible for most players, at least at 1080p 60fps with some optimization. But this game runs great on my RX6800 and 5800X3D, maxed out at 1440p, getting at least 60fps in the low end. My issue is I bought the game to test the graphics, and in general, just don't care for super hero games. But that's just a personal preference. Far Cry 6 also runs great at 4k maxed out with RT reflections over 60 fps. I don't use the RT shadows in that because, well... they can look like garbage in a lot of areas lol. And I was convinced the RX6800 just wouldn't do RT at all when I bought it so it's all a bonus to me anyways. That card is amazing in non RT titles and even goes toe-to-toe with the 4070 on some games.
Really looking forward to your in-depth video on DLAA vs. DLSS vs. FSR vs. IGTI. Any hint on when that will come out? I recently discovered your channel through word-of-mouth, and I think you guys are really something else. One of the best reviewers I've ever seen. You really do your homework, and are very talented in the technical aspect of things. Really looking forward to more of your content! Salud!
I was wondering why some areas looked so flat and now It seems that HBAO is the culprit. I figured it was an ambient occlusion or shadow problem but I didn't think turning AO down to SSAO would actually be beneficial.
I've discovered that setting DLAA as anti-aliasing with a target resolution and no upscaler. the image is clean as hell despite SMAA, TAA and no AA all looking like hell. This makes sense on the surface, but when i then enable DLSS as an upscaler instead with the same target framerate, it looks slightly different. both hit their framerate target, which tells me they both upscale the image, but with differences.
@@vyor8837 Well, even with a 5800x and a 3070, with all RT and max settings ( at 1080p for the test ), the game can still dip below 60 ( in the 50s mostly ) and i don't really want that, DLSS does a pretty good job making it stay above 60 100% of the time
Is this video only uploaded in 1080 or is it just UA-cam's servers that are really slow right now to encode the 4K version? (it has been almost a day, and I have been waiting to the the review in at least more meaningful quality than the horrible UA-cam 1080p encode)
Same. I've been waiting too. DF did comment in another thread that it's indeed processing but that was yesterday. I'm still waiting to watch this as well. No point in watching this in compressed 1080p
I think you also missed the PS5 update rate for RT looking like a complete slide show. Watching pedestrians walk around in reflections could see them stuttering around as they were only updated what looked like 1/2 frame rate (or less) where as in the PC they're smooth. This is another trick consoles use to save performance, they often do it with dynamic shadow update rates as well.
@@jakub7244 It is a combination of that and the fact that it is using a CPU-based decompression solution. I just thought that when the loadingscreen goes away the loading would be done, but it wasn't.
I know that consoles struggle with AF, but I wouldn't have expected it to be so bad that it carries over to the current gen. Can a PS5 really not handle 8xAF? It can really hurt the otherwise great image quality.
It seems to be something that Sony consoles have struggled with more than anything. I remember all the way back in the PS3 days that there were regular complaints about it just being plain missing on PS3, yet present on the Xbox 360 version. Considering it's something that should have essentially zero performance impact, it's weird. Maybe it's just Sony's development tools at fault.
It's very demanding on APU based systems due to the bandwidth. On a discreet GPU in a PC it's basically free, but try that on the Steam Deck or any APU out there and you'll quickly see how much bandwidth AF eats up.
I think it'll be more that they optimise to make sure there's as much memory bandwidth as possible. AF does impact memory bandwidth quiet heavily in reality.
Square Enix recently reported that Forspoken with it enabled (the first game that will use Direct Storage), reduced load times down to around a second on PC and it also gave the game an increased level of fluidity. So probably.... Of course there's also RTX IO on Nvidia RTX cards, which is like a plugin for Direct Storage and will speed up SSD access and transfers by huge amount, will decompress compressed files "on the fly" and will free up the CPU from a whole host of processes, by diverting them directly to the GPU instead. Both running in tandem are expected to exceed what the PS5 can currently do and by a fairly large margin. This will be especially true on the next gen Lovelace GPU's, coupled together with Windows 11 and a fast Gen4 or an upcoming Gen5 NVME SSD.
I just don't understand why so many console titles use anisotropic filtering at 4x or 2x. 16x literraly costs 1FPS (at most) but the overall quality increase is "worth 20 fps" compared to other settings.
Cuz most console games are played on a couch on TV in living room, so the distance between our eye & TV is obviously more so we won't be seeing those details. It's actually a good tactic btw.
Awesome. I was waiting for this. Already pre-ordered the game (loved it on the PS4), but I was hoping to get a breakdown of settings equivalent to PS5 Fidelity Mode and PS5 Performance RT. @21:00 . Thank you very much, guys and gals. Sounds like the developers did a great job optimizing the game but still have some patches to go. Hopefully my i9-9900K, RTX 3080 Ti, NVME 2.0 SSD, and 64 Gigs of DDR4 3600 mhz ram can brute-force a 60 fps with balanced DLSS and settings close to PS5 fidelity mode (with ray-traced reflections object range turned down to 8). We'll see. Luckily, they gave us a big enough range of settings that I can potentially fine-tune the drops away.
@@igi2135 You've got me wrong, dude. Not trying to show off; PC ports are sometimes sad affairs of needing to brute force performance. Arkham Knight, just about every Ubisoft game I've bought for the past five years, etc. Don't have the time to try the game today, but I'm hoping I have enough oomph to avoid the occasional stutters and woes I've seen in some previews when ray-tracing was enabled (which were admittedly done before the last pre-launch patch). Was not trying to be a prick.
Great analysis! Features are great but performance with rt on is currently far from ideal on my system (i7 11700k + 3070 ti). Frame-rate is dropping below 60 constantly even at 1080p optimized settings. Both GPU and CPU utilizations are not maxed out.
I have spent about 2.5 hours with the game so far on PC and with my set up I am getting a nice, consistent 80-90fps all high settings, 1440p, DRS on, RTX on Very High! Ryzen 9 3900x, RTX 2070S, 32GB Ram, installed to 1TB Samsung 970 NVME. This is another QUALITY PS port!
I have an RTX 3070 + Ryzen 5 5600x, yet even if I'm using optimized settings, my game still stutters, A LOT. I've seen other people on the steam forums having similar performance issues. I've also been experiencing a lot of visual bugs. A lot of pop in, even at max settings. DLSS doesn't even increase performance either. If anything it makes the image quality a lot worse. I've noticed this on every game that supports it. Also worth noting that I'm playing at 1080p.
I have the same specs and do not have any issues you mentioned aside from fps dipping below 60 in time square with optimized setting + rtx on high. Mostly I get stable 70-90 fps, no pop ins. Make sure you have updated nvidia drivers and try to close any monitoring software in the meantime
@@thehorsecockexpress1068 "any ray tracing will be 30fps and the ray tracing will be 720p to 1080p" => How then have we already Performance RT 60 fps and R&C 40 fps RT modes ?
I wish there would been screencap for both the launcher setting options as there's stuff that the game doesn't include, like cloud particle detail, and also stuff like would they recommend dlss etc. or just post screencap of the in game settings fully too. I can sure just try them out but bit too much guess work at times. Good stuff though, and game is a blast!
This is why I play on consoles No stressing over what settings to use to get maximum usage while also getting steady framerate Just plug the damn thing and put the disc in then choose 30 fps version higher reaolution or 60 fps version lower res
![[4K] Marvel's Spider-Man: The Complete Digital Foundry Analysis!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/L2wr7vebb6Y/mqdefault.jpg)
The graphics menu ALONE is such a great "feature" this game has. More games need to adopt this style.
10000% needs to be standard!
Yes more settings!!!
FYI Don't use in game Vsync or FPS use nvidia control panel to set sync and fps options will run Much more stable frame times!!!
@@TRONiX404 AMD has similar tools
TotalBiscuit would be proud. Rest in peace.
Well ... for an enthusiast, sure!
But for someone who "just wants to play" at the optimum for his pc, I hope that there is an analyse algorithm for the pc hardware which chooses some descend settings by default.
It's funny and somehow heartwarming to see that old pre-launch menu. It reminds me very much of old 2000s eidos pc games and of course later SE, former Eidos PC ports. I love that nixxes hold on to that function.
Kind of like when you see the inventory screen in modern Hitman titles and realize it's the exact same inventory as in the very first Tomb Raider game on PS1.
Those relational threads are very interesting and it could be very cool to see a DF-Retro that maps them out. Kind of like those game-engine family trees that you can find online, but for developer houses or features that are almost definitely transplanted between titles across studio lines.
Skyrim and Fallout 4 also have such pre-launch menus, lol
So does Guardians of The Galaxy. Great game if you like superhero games
I’m guessing the reason all those SE ports have it, is because Nixxes did their ports as well?
I have seen nixxes ports use these menus like deus ex and tomb raiders.
That's actually really sweet.
Man, people at Nixxies are amazing
They know the important stuff
Exactly why Sony bought them quick and in a hurry lol
I hope if bloodborne comes to PC Nixxies ports it
@@promc2890 might as well make it worth everybody’s while and reap the full benefits of the Nixxes acquisition. After the Elden Ring hype and demand for a higher fidelity port, Bloodborne Remastered for PS5/PC is just instant profit.
@@tmontana213 lmao right, them tomb raider PC ports must've made sony go 👀
idk why but i have a huge feeling nixxes have already had a call from playstation and their next task is to port ghost of tsushima to pc. I just know that game is next.
I really like how far loading times have come. We've went from complaining 35 second loading times on the psp to comparing that the ps5 is half the loading time of the pc when booting. I love the times we're in.
Would be amazing if devs can fully eliminate load times like Mark Cerny said. Imagine just instantly respawning in the blink of an eye after dying in a Souls game.
@@weaverquest The thing is Ghost of Tsushima does that already on the PS4 but the devs INTENTIONALLY put a code on the game to make the loading screen last a bit longer for the sole purpose of letting gamers be able to read the tutorial screen. I think they got rid of it on the PS5 version. They also removed loading on RE8 on PS5.
@@weaverquestLaughs in Jak and Daxter
@@weaverquest the time will come within the next couple generations of PC hardware. Mark Cerny was ahead of the curve with the implementation of their SSD and SSD controller. Motherboard manufacturers, AMD, and Intel are all working on solutions to do the same thing sooner than later. The only problem is that games need to be optimized to utilize that fast loading... so a lot of older games won't benefit unless someone updates/patches them (which would be harder than it sounds with older game engines).
Bro, Halo 2 campaign sometimes took several minutes! I’ve been rocking SSD’s in my PC for 10 years now, and those load times still haunt my nightmares.
i like the picture in picture thing you did when talking about the "-nolauncher" option. important info conveyed in a non-intrusive way.
I love that PlayStation is going hard with these PC ports and it's not just the console version with unlocked frame rates.
I’m not a fan of Sony porting once PlayStation exclusives to PC, but strangely I’m also happy you guys on PC are getting to experience these great games. I think soon some games, like MLB: The Show will start releasing on PlayStation and PC the same day.
@@Snoy_Fly is that from a PlayStation studio?
@@Snoy_Fly why can’t you be a fan? You don’t have to like it but please don’t dislike it. PC isn’t a competing platform as like the Xbox or the Switch
@@maddrone7814 not even the xbox is competing bc they are basically the same lol
only console players care about that stuff for some weird reason
I don't think they will do day and date for awhile yet. The PS5 brand is propped up by their high quality single player games. Personally I think they are smart to port what they have since they have already run their financial course on PS. Why not port and polish them for PC? It doesn't hurt the PS owners in any way.
I already bought this game twice and am tempted to do it again for PC, just for the excuse to replay on my PC.
The graphics menu interface from this game is something that should become industry standard it’s so good being able to see what the graphics settings look like ahead of time
Just started the game a few minutes ago after launch. If you're the type like me that does more with your PC than just game, and are a little slow to update your drivers... trust me, you need to for this one - otherwise the game will look wrong and you'll barely see anything but black models with bad lighting. Immediately noticeable from the very first cutscene.
Yeah I didn’t update my drivers since about February and I ignored the prompt to update and damn it really tanked. Updated then my 3070 ram about right
thank you for telling me i just got on booted up my game and peter was coal black i was so confused
Update drivers? Next time just download more ram
How far behind on drivers are you? I'm on a RTX 3090 on 516.59 (2022-06-28) and although there was the driver warning on launch, there were no conceivable problems graphics/performance-wise when I tested.
Can vouch for this, my game was going absolutely crazy. Currently updating drivers so it should work soon
Cool to see such a good PC port, even more cool to see such good graphic options!
Thanks, as always for great content. Your graphical break downs are by far the best I have come across. The team at DF truly deserves the thanks of the gaming community as a whole.
here here
He missed weather particle quality 😭
Im so confused what setting to use!
Finally! Nixxes might low key be Sony's most important acquisition long term outside of Insomniac.
Yes, it is the most important in the sense that it will be the downfall of the Playstation
@@Fellipe2k5 downfall of the console maybe. They will still remain an amazing game publisher
@@cybervoid8442 Yes. Good thing I don't have to pay for games anymore.
Thanks Nixxes 👏👏
@@cybercop3108 We'll see in a few years whether the business of neglecting the console market will not affect profits.
@@cybercop3108 You misinterpreted me.
I didn't say it was Fellipe's downfall but I said it was the Playstation's downfall.
For me it's good that there are games on PC, because PC gaming is free. I don't need to spend any money.
Even though I already own this on PS5 I did pick it up again to run on the Steam Deck. Being able to run games like this natively on a handheld is still absolutely amazing to me. With Uncharted and Last of Us next on the port list it’s the closest thing we’ll have to a modern Vita, along with everything else it can do.
What settings and framrate do you run it at?
lmao, dont expect miracles, evidently the pc ports of uncharted especially looks like having quite a few issues, thats why they havent been released since announcing it during january this year
@@joey199412 honestly standard out of the box settings, and then lock the deck to 30 fps and it holds rock steady the whole time and looks fantastic. You can probably squeeze out a bit more. But even on low it never holds a solid 60. So your definitely better off going for good looks at 30
@@danquaza9275 What about 40hz?
@@InFlamesor12 you are right but did you experience it or do you understand why is that. Optimization is not just a word and it's not simple as it's sounds. Optimization is heavy programming task which developers don't have because it's hard to learn and it's time consuming and it is hardest part in development of game .
I love how detail oriented this whole video is, spot on.
this is why you wait fir their reviews and ignore the ones like ign.
No one does it like DF. That was a masterclass in analysis. Bravo.
Love to see 100% cpu usage on all cores. Put that baby to work.
My pc is ready. Gonna try to max it out at 4K and let vrr+ drs handle the dips. Can’t wait!
DF and NXGamer are 🔥
Not sure what your specs are but I am on a 10900k and 3080 and I have to use his optimized settings at 4k DLSS balanced and DRS set to 60. Some of the settings REALLY tank performance. The worst is setting ray traced reflection resolution to very high, I lose over 20 fps between high and very high.
@@alanreynolds4262 so a 3080 cant do dlss quality 4k60? such a shame , they said 4k60 max settings in the spec sheet
@@ayushsinghchauhan9558 With Ray Tracing at native? Not at all. Without RT yes. Need DLSS for RT though.
@@alanreynolds4262 3080 ti / 12700 / 32 gb ddr4. Haven’t started the download but hope to play tonight!
I really hope DF makes a new section of analysis for "performance longevity", because a TON of these new games have "memory leak" issues that only show up after at least more than 15 minutes of gameplay, at least, when using ray tracing.
This game, for example, has a massive performance degradation with RT turned on while web swinging, which only shows up with at least 15 minutes of swinging around quickly through the city. Frametimes go all over the place and the game has very noticeable stutters when web swinging close to the ground, along with generally much lower average fps. It may or may not be a memory leak, but it is an issue of some kind. I've tried turning down every setting to the lowest, but the only thing that fixes this (other than restarting the game) is to turn off RT entirely. It would be great if these analysis videos brought this issue to light.
I'd recommend using multiple different GPUs with different VRAM amounts for this type of testing, because a lot of the texture quality recommendations made in these optimized settings don't hold up when playing for longer periods of time, since some of these games have bad memory management that show up over time and bring fps down to unplayable levels. Spider-Man doesn't seem to have a VRAM related issue (since turning textures to the lowest setting doesn't fix it), but other ray traced games absolutely do, at least on 8GB or lower GPU with RT capability.
This! I'm running this game on a 12700kf and 3080, and when I first launch the game, I get 80-100 fps at 4k with RT+ DLSS, but after enough time playing I will get drops to 60, even 45, causing noticeable stutter. The performance of the game absolutely degrades over a play session, which should not happen. I think the above poster is commentor is correct - that if you turn off Ray tracing the problem goes away.
Cyberpunk 2077 has a VERY similar issue, I find myself having to restart the game every time I go into a very dense area just to recuperate my frame rate…restarting the game *usually* resets the frame rate and GPU usage so maybe try that for now on Spider-man? Perhaps a potential fix for now, I’m sure performance patches are incoming considering this game dropped maybe a week or two ago.
Finally someone mentioning it, I'm running this game using a 12400f and a 3060ti, which technically would be enough for me to run the game with the amazing ray tracing preset from the specs chart, and I can do it but after 15-20mins swinging the game starts to stutter like crazy, I even tried to lower the textures quality to high and it still happens
interesting. after playing awhile, it couldn't have been more than an hour, there was a cutscene of peter and mj at a table or something, and then the game just decided it was done at CTD. which was disappointing bc i was actually getting into it
I’m glad people are starting to notice this shit so many games are having this issue and it fucking sucks so bad going from 100fps to dips in the 30s after 20 minutes
Great overview as always Alex! One thing to mention: it may be good to start testing Windows 11 for things like loading times. Although we don't yet have the GPU decompression part of DirectStorage or the direct SSD->GPU async transfer, we *do* have some of the CPU overhead reduction. BypassIO is a new Windows storage driver API and is what DirectStorage leverages under-the-hood on Windows 11; on Windows 10 even DirectStorage still goes through the legacy Win32 API. It'd be interesting to track the progression of games starting to use that API (either directly, or indirectly via DirectStorage) and any loading time implications!
It could also be the default Nvme drivers on Windows 11 as well. Don't know if this is only for 11, but I manually set my nvme ssd controller to use 4KB blocks natively instead of the default 512byte emulated blocks/sectors and saw a massive improvement on windows 11. Most NVME ssds support this, but you have to wipe your drive your drive to change this and you need to use a linux boot disk to run the nvme-cli commandline utility to change it. My phison e12 based inland premium ssd doubled the random write speed with a queue depth of 32 after the change. Apparently 512e is used by default due to the ability to clone from other 512byte sector drives like most HDDs. Sabrent's standard pcie 3.0 rocket also uses the phison e12 controller and used 4k native for the sectors for better performance, but was changed later to 512e stock due to people complaining about not being able to clone from their old hard drive or sata ssd.
I mean the load time difference is like a second. I will test it on my nvme 4.0 win11 system when I get a chance but doubt there will be a difference. FWIW, I noticed no load time change in other games when I switched to win 11 (clean install).
Windows 11 isn't even finished, and is missing several features present in Windows 10. No point in testing unfinished operating systems like that when nobody's going to bother using them.
EDIT: Bruh, he says in the video that he didn't have a PCIe gen 4 drive to test. That's the bottleneck, not Windows 10. And it's only 1-2 seconds slower than PS5 on a mere PCIe gen 3 SSD anyway. We're still talking about less than 5 second load times here. Absolutely nothing to complain about, and certainly nothing to waste time with broken crap like Windows 11 over.
@@mjc0961 Windows 11 issues are entirely UI design. Under the hood some huge issues got fixed such as fullscreen optimizations using bitblt and not bypassing dwm.
@@mjc0961 did you see the max ssd usage? The bottleneck wasn't the ssd, it was CPU decompression and engine architecture.
I was literally thinking where's DF's analysis? Then BOOM! WISH FULFILLMENT!
"Boom!! That's a what you looking for?"
They're always there for the ones that'll bring the most clicks or well paid like their Anthem marketing campaign disguised as various analysis videos when new and far better games were released.
Same
@@ionseven idk how people have conspiratorial views about DF. They cover the biggest games at the time. Anthem was hyped up to be a huge release. We don’t know how good a game is going to be until it’s actually out. Also a game can be technically interesting enough to warrant multiple analyses while still sucking in gameplay. Also they have to get clicks, it’s the point of UA-cam. You try to point it out as some malicious intent. Wild.
pc = ray tracing
weakstation 5 = trash tracing
This would have been a perfect chance to finally release a game on PC that makes use of Direct Storage and find out if that would have made a difference, especially seeing that CPU and SSD usage. Other than that seems like another great PC port from legendary Nixxes, especially given the complexity of the original game. Thanks for the video.
8:09 You are talking about VRAM, but in the On Screen Display you are looking at the RAM usage
Wow, THANK YOU Nixxes for making ACTUALLY PUTTING IN EFFORT into this port!!!
Awesome work Alex, and Nixxes too. Glad to see the care they put into their work!
Envious of those who are playing this for the first time. A fantastic game no doubt
Me im loving it so far!
Is it good? I've always been told it basically a gta v modded. Spiderman games were very good back at N64, I wonder if this is a good one.
@@davepianist84 way more than modded gta 5 whoever told you that is an idiot it’s a great game probably the best spider-man game ever
@@davepianist84 I have about 35% completion of the main story and it's very good. I've had just one hard crash during a puzzle and it put me right back at the same spot I left off and the rest has been flawless. Definitely the best webswinging of any spider man game I've played and I certaintly haven't mastered it yet. What I really like is at the beginning of the game there is no fast travel(you do get it a bit later) and instead of throwing all the map icons at you at once they give each to you 1 or 2 sets at a time. Thanks to that I've just swung around the whole city each time I get a new set of activities doing all of them before moving on to the next main story section and it's been great fun.
@@InMaTeofDeath Sounds cool! Thanks mate
14:40 looks like a typo on the right pane. You've got low listed twice.
Looks like a really good port! You've convinced me to buy!
Nixxies thank you for amazing ultrawide support!
With a 3090, 5900x and NVME 6000MB/s drive I get around 70-84 fps while webslinging through the city at 4k max settings with DLSS quality.
Some things to note.
: Some textures fail to load quickly enough so it will look like a blurry smudge for 5 seconds or so before loading in the high res texture (even on a 6000MB/s NVME gen4 drive)
: HDR is not working correctly and looked badly washed out like RDR 2 did at release (hopefully they fix it)
: SSAO looks better than HBAO+ (HBAO+ for some reason is not working correctly)
: This game is very CPU intensive (Even at 4k max settings my 3090 is being bottlenecked at 93% GPU utilization with drops to 84%, even with a 5900x with full 24 threads being utilized)
: DLSS is oversharpening at lower resolutions so if you play at 1080p it may look too sharp
: The game currently has a memory leak that will crash even a 3080ti with 12GB of vRAM but you may not notice it as much with a 24GB 3090/3090ti
I also have the 3090, but only the 5800x and SATA SSD. Im guessing I would get slightly lower FPS than you(also play in 4k), because of that 5800x, as this game is, apparently, CPU intensive, as we've been shown. Seems reasonable to me. I typically just aim for above 60 FPS, and however high it gets.....great, whatever lol.
Thanks for the tips.
Disabling depth of field reduced the pop in due low texture loading by 80%...I don't know it would...but it did for me...
@@bra1nc417d you'll get a better experience frame limiting to 60fps. The consistent frame times are worth more than any extra frames you'd get.
@@DanKaschel And I may do that, when I get this game. 👍
Insomniac are truly wizards at what they do. I still can't believe this is still technically a PS4 game, I've seen Ps4s go for as low as 100 bucks and it's just insane how bang for your buck and how much quality you get from optimized games and Sony exclusives for such a shitty and old hardware. The performance rt version on the PS5 already looks beautiful. I genuinely can't wait for spiderman 2, specially since I found out that the trailer for it was running in real time on a PS5 and most people even thought it was a cgi trailer because how good it looked lmao
How is performance on deck I wish df included that in this video.
@@Spencerwalker21 similar to the base model ps4 iirc ign included it in their video
Yeah it’s really interesting how the decompression block on ps5 frees up the cpu for RT. I think it’s mentioned but no one really believed it. You now have a easy comparison to see how much extra cpu power you need compared to the ps5 when you don’t have such a feature and the cpu is responsible for decompression.
@@Boofener is 40hz doable even at 540p fsr 2.0 with low to medium settings a 40hz cap would be a dream.
@@Spencerwalker21 unfortunately they didn't but IGN did. I recommend you watch the video but if I remember correctly, they were able to play it at 1080p/30 fps at low to medium setting, comparable to the PS4 version of the game
Kinda surprised you guys didn't cover the Weather Particles setting (this game's volumetric fog), as it is one of the most demanding options in the game and has a big fps impact from Medium to High.
I love the fact that the complaint for the loading time is that it's 3 seconds instead of 1 second (It's a fair complaint, but it's still funny to me).
I LOVE This generation.
Absolutely spectacular analysis, and big shout out to the port team, amazing QOL stuff, absolutely mindblowing quality here.
Couple errors in the video. You can skip the intro videos with the controller. It's the B button on my Xbox pad. Skips them every time. And ultrawide isn't perfect out of the box because it screws up UI elements, like when someone calls you. The wave length graphic is misaligned and partially covers the image of the caller whereas it's confined to the left side in a box when playing at 16:9.
great review! these ports really show the gap in asset decompression we have on PC vs new consoles. cant wait until DirectStorage and RTX IO are finally implemented.
jesse what the fuck are you talking about
DirectStorage has already been made available, but I guess Spider-Man was too late in development to take advantage of it. Or perhaps shaving off like two seconds of load times simply wasn't worth it.
@@Thornskade DirectStorage is available but it’s not being used in conjunction with RTX IO(or AMDs own version of this) which is less about initial loading times and more about utilizing the GPU to help with asset decompression while playing the game. This review highlighted the major CPU load this game has and these new technologies will help a ton with this.
4:20 Shader compilation has SIGNIFICANTLY impacted the enjoyment of PC gaming for me. The ridiculous amount of stuttering in some games absolutely destroys any feeling of immersion. It's completely inexcusable.
This is really great news. Day one purchase for me.
Not so great news from me as I'm still getting massive stuttering with RT on, same as shader comp.
Tremendous work Alex
I love your CPU limit analysis in particular. I think this is the first time we're seeing the sheer power of the PS5's cpu and decompression hardware vs raw PC CPU power.
I mean there are several potential causes for the high cpu load. It could be the less efficient nvme drivers on Windows 10 compared to 11, it could be the Win32 api, it could be the NTFS filesystem, or it could even be dx12 driver overhead considering this was tested with Nvidia cards. Some DX12 games have way more overhead than others on Nvidia and this might be an edge case with more overhead potentially similar to Halo Infinite or the newer Call Of Duty titles.
@@nepnep6894 sure, but the developer specifically notes that one of the main drivers of high CPU usage on PC is the CPU having to do all the asset decompression on PC which is handled by the custom I/O unit on PS5.
@@nickgovier exactly I found that very interesting as well. I wonder if other developers are making use of this on ps5 as the insomniac games show some serious heavy lifting of the ps5 compared to the PC equivalent gpu/cpu and nvme drives.
Direct storage*
direct storage is not out yet.
Thank you for making the video! At 14:40 you labelled "low" settings twice.
Even with a 8GB card, I found the very high textures can cause stutters. I'm using a 2070 super and 9900k, at the suggested settings, but with 1440p & DLSS quality mode and no raytracing. I'm testing this by walking back and forth on a long street. The VRAM spikes to over 7GB used, and that causes a visible stutter that can be measured by a frametime graph (msi afterburner). I used reload checkpoint and I found the stutters repeatable. Putting it down to high textures stopped those stutters and kept VRAM usage around 6.5GB, though it's hard to say if the VRAM reading from this software is correct.
I get 11gb at 4k quality dlss RT.
in game Vsync preforms bad disable use nvidia control panel fps sync options.
Adrenaline is reporting 14-15GB Vram usage on my 6800XT with everything maxed out at 4k with RT. I haven't tried turning SAM off or messed with the various upscalers yet though.
With a 6GB card high textures are as far as I can go before fps tanks, but honestly can't find a huge difference between very high and high (Maybe some ground textures are _slightly_ lower res?), so it's not that bad even if you have to turn it down on an 8GB card.
@@theeternal417 Yeah it shows similar vram usage on my 6800XT but on my 3080Ti it shows around 10 - 11GB at 4K. It depends on the game and vram available.
@@TexelGuy yes same i mean everything it's maxed out on my 3060 laptop beside the textures , but it's not a problem because I don't see the difference beside high and very high , also my CPU it's violated with rtx lol
This looks like an excellent port!
its not i have gtx 1060 game runs like shit even on low
@@johnpen269 yeah the 1060 is terrible in 2022 pal, i have a 6600 xt its great
@@Celerate. its still the most used GPU on Steam and in PC gaming in general. And its not terrible 99% of the games run just fine
@@johnpen269 you are kidding right, my 1060 can easily give 60+ fps on high settings
@@vipullakra5379 bullshit. Even at 1080p you have fps dropping. Post a video showing city swinging holding at 60 the whole time
Looks like a pretty solid PC port and it looks like they are still working on it, fixing bugs and optimizing it.
It's a shame that Direct Storage isn't use and I do wonder why it's taking so long for games to take advantage of it, especially considering that AMD and Nvidia have their own implementation of decompression on the gpu that works through Direct Storage.
Another thing that I'm impressed by is how quickly they are patching the game, it's a nice touch that is very likely going to help game sales as it shows they are putting the effort into the game.
As for the loading times, it's not that big of a deal considering you're only talking one or two seconds difference which in it's self is quite impressive considering it's not using Direct Storage.
Also, credit to Sony, it looks like they are not messing PC gamers about and seem to be going all in with treating PC gamers well, again, that's a sure way to generate more game sales in that critical early window when the game price is high, which I always find it perplexing why so many publishers make a mess of games on release as that is only going to hurt sales in the early high profit window that they don't really want to lose those sales, I know of many gamers that buy games months or years later if the game is released in a bad state and that is surely costing these publishers a lot of money and good will and in this case, it looks like this game runs in a pretty decent state from the start.
Also, it would be interesting to get some in-depth analysis of the game on the Steam Deck, others are reporting the game runs well on the Deck, but it would be great if DF takes a closer look at that.
Yeah. I think they're making 3 videos on this game. Rich I believe is checking it on on Steam Deck and mid to low range PCs. As Alex implied earlier in the video someone else is working on the comparison between Insomniac's Temporal Injection, FSR 2.0 and DLSS 2.0. From the one shot that was shown Insomniacs is better than FSR 2.0 but not as good as DLSS
> It's a shame that Direct Storage isn't used and I do wonder why it's taking so long for games to take advantage of it, especially considering that AMD and Nvidia have their own implementation of decompression on the gpu that works through Direct Storage.
GPU Decompression hasn't been implemented yet by Microsoft and AMD & Nvidia's implementations are based on Microsoft's. The stuff to do with optimizing reading from an SSD has been implemented.
The games industry is around 5-7 years behind new tech usually for mainstream adoption.
@@KIWIDOGGIE
Said no one ever. Where do you even get such ideas from?
This is nothing new. PlayStation used to release games for PC back in the day and I'm not talking about Sony Online Entertainment... I said PlayStation and I mean *PLAYSTATION!*
Back in the 90s I played many PS games on PC first like Overboard, WipEout and G-Police. While nearly a decade after those games launched I had PCs that could run those PS games maxed out I ultimately would've had fun just as much fun had I played them on PS first or even exclusively.
PlayStation wasn't messing around then why would they mess around now? They're trying to sell games they want them to work properly no matter where they release even when they're on Xbox as is the case with MLB: The Show these days.
Damn you guys do a great job on finding the best optimizations for PC!
That menu that launches before the full game launches is very much a Nixxes thing these days. I remember Rottr having that.
12:26 "very shadow quality" lol
But seriously thank you so much for waiting to make this video instead of rushing it to publish. Doesn't seem like anyone else out there cares about up to date information, you know - something that would actually reflect what real world PC user would experience and therefore helpful, as opposed to just getting the video out as quickly as possible.
so the team that ported this went god mode with the settings, very rare and nice to see these days
I just hope every PC port from Sony going forward is at this level, if anything it'll be praise towards Sony from the PC community for understanding our needs.
I've been down on Sony for being so insular, but I'll hand it to them, their recent ports have been excellent. I hope they keep it up.
Fantastic video as usual. Thx Alex.
It was Processing the Native 4K60 Now we can see the details!
Thank you! ❤❤
Some of us on the Steam forums figured out what's going on with HBAO+. The ambient occlusion menu options are labeled wrong! If you select Off you get SSAO. If you select SSAO you get HBAO+. If you select HBAO+ you get Off. I have screenshots to prove it. Really strange bug.
thanks for the analysis👍
Nixxes should be the benchmark for other companies to learn how to port properly to the PC.
i would say give all major ports to them. even xbox can use their services on contract.
@@sharathvasudev Honestly Microsoft can do decent ports. Halo Infinite is still a decent port besides the internal framelimiter and vsync being bugged. The biggest issue is that the game is one of the most gpu vendor biased titles I'm aware of. The game seems to use execute indirect calls for culling on the gpu and RDNA1/2 both have something called nggc (Next-Gen Geometric Culling) for gpu culling and it seems to work wonders on halo infinite. RDNA2 also supports mesh shaders which halo infinite also utilizes. This results in the title being extremely AMD biased especially RDNA2 compared to older AMD gpus or any Nvidia gpu.
@@sharathvasudev Forza ports are amazing they are peak PC optimazation
@@promc2890 Are xbox games really ports if they were developed on PC to begin with?
The Hitman, Tomb Raider series was done well for the PC by them and by far this game with minor imperfections looks great.
Playstation late-2020 : let us give PS5 Spider Man a 60 fps
Playstation late-2021 : Let us give PS5 Spdier Man RT with 60-FPS
Playstation late-2022: Let us give (PC) Spdier Man drops to 45 fps for any 2080ti & below
Yeah right.. even as PS5 owner, I hate when Console gets better optimzations, while PC gets treated poorly
always amazing work. You can skip the intro video with a playstation 5 controller press O button. Also if you screw around with the race trace settings for too long switching them back-and-forth over and over again You may not get the performance that you would get if you restart the game It takes a long time of screwing around with settings for it to happen.
*We appreciate the delay to make sure you had all the Day 1 updates* and your proactive interactions with the Insomniac/Nixxes teams.
Good job, Alex. 👍
Great video as always, wishing it was rendered in 4k like most other DF videos are. Easier to see the differences with higher resolutions. (If watching in 4k of course). Excited to finally play this game with high FPS on my 3080ti!
I think something's wrong with UA-cam's video processing here. If you check this video when it appears in search results, it has the 4K indicator, but it's still not available in the options for whatever reason :\
nopne cares about your wack 3080ti
@@DeusGladiorum Thanks for explanation, I figured maybe UA-cam was being slow with its uploads (My vids always start at 720p then slowly get up to 4k after a day of so, but DF always seem to be 4k from that start). I figured being such a huge channel gave them priority somehow, or maybe they preload them and set a later date for debut allowing youtube time for 4k version to upload/process. Checking now (Aug 13 7pm EST) , this vid is finally 4k
3080ti knocks it out the park!
its 4k for me
17:28 Never thought I would get excited at ray traced soda bottles! So excited for the next game
Can't wait for Spider Man 2 next Year😍
Great video as aways. I believe that Traffic Density is how far the traffic movement goes. If you pay close attention, the very high shows cars moving from far away. On very low noting is happening.
That's the difference I noticed as well.
Should I wait and watch this video tomorrow because UA-cam is slow in processing 4K videos, or did DF really upload this video in 1080p?
Now why can’t they just release a standalone physical native PS5 version of Marvel’s Spider-Man Remastered? 🤷♂️
They don't want to, there's literally no other reason. Its even smaller in size than the PS4 version so it'll fit comfortably on any modern blu-ray
Was looking forward to this.
Thanks as always Alex and DF crew!
Sometimes I feel like both Insomniac and Nixxes are too good at what they do. Something unnatural going on there.
It’s also really cool to me that Sony has not oversold the claims on their drives and that they’re still holding up nearly two years later. After so much overpromising in console history, including by Sony, that is refreshing to see.
insomniac games are the next rockstar.
Honestly, in terms of port quality its more that other studios are heavily underdelivering rather than Nixxes overdelivering.
A 2018 game with lame graphics and ypu need a 3090 and they are calling a good port. That is a crappy game. It must ron in a 1060 without problems.
@@JudeTheUA-camPoopersubscribe lmao relax
@@acevedoaandres it does run on a 1060 without problems
Have you guys just stopped uploading videos at 4K? These breakdowns are much more informative when I can see the differences you're trying to point out.
This is my first play through and playing on medium. Amazed at how good it looks and some moments look like they’re straight out of a movie
I will definitely be getting this, to play on my Steam Deck, though I will wait for it to be on sale, as I already played it on my PS4, when it was first released. Miles Morales will be a day 1 purchase though, as I have not played that yet.
they're offering features which most triple a games, let alone playstation exclusive games, implement. The way you can see the changes in real time and not having to restart is the best thing i've seen
I assume you meant DON'T implement, as he said in the video?
Thanks for your tremendous work Alex! Was eagerly awaiting the upload, since their proprietary engine does an amazing job. Still: I bet I'm not the only one curious how much one can squeeze out of the Steam Deck though.. especially given how many different options are available to mess with. The next few days will be surely interesting...
If an rtx 2060 super can run at 75 fps at 1440p with high settings, a steam deck could probably do 540p with raytracing at 30 fps, although it may be able to do more than that
IGN tested it for Steam deck and released a video on it.
@@TheTrashman147 RT on the Deck? Yeah, no. Technically possible? Yes. Performant enough? Not even at 540p, and 30 FPS.
@@TheTrashman147 I can rest you assure that it's actually more than able to pull the stable 30 FPS off, although I'm working on something better right now. This is going to be a long night...
@@AJ-xv7oh Nearly everybody with press access had tested it on their Steam Deck. Still I'm more into squeezing the best possible performance out of it, but we'll surely get there.
Dein "auf Wiedersehen" am Ende immer killt mich😂😂😂 bester Mann, danke für die gute Coverage👍🏼
Not having to restart the game for any of the settings to take effect is greatly appreciated. Ubisoft should take a hint...
In depth and very well presented showcase Alex!
Glad we share same fondness for external launchers.
why is the max resolution of this video 1080p
It's just hugely impressive to me that despite all the details, you still get rather pleasant RT shenanigans on both the PS5 which is oh-so supposedly lackluster in that regard as well as on rather modest PC gpus. And at great performance metrics to boot. Insomniac are just wizards.
I mean, it's not "supposedly" lackluster. I'm with you on insomniac's wizardry, but in a side-by-side comparison the console compromise is real.
This is one of the ONLY ray tracing titles in which the ray tracing makes a major difference in visuals AND is optimized for most cards. I assume this is because the CPU does a lot of the heavy lifting compared to most RT games dumping it all on the GPU, but I could be wrong about that.
In any case they should just make more games like this. Where ray tracing is accessible for most players, at least at 1080p 60fps with some optimization. But this game runs great on my RX6800 and 5800X3D, maxed out at 1440p, getting at least 60fps in the low end. My issue is I bought the game to test the graphics, and in general, just don't care for super hero games. But that's just a personal preference. Far Cry 6 also runs great at 4k maxed out with RT reflections over 60 fps. I don't use the RT shadows in that because, well... they can look like garbage in a lot of areas lol. And I was convinced the RX6800 just wouldn't do RT at all when I bought it so it's all a bonus to me anyways. That card is amazing in non RT titles and even goes toe-to-toe with the 4070 on some games.
Really looking forward to your in-depth video on DLAA vs. DLSS vs. FSR vs. IGTI. Any hint on when that will come out? I recently discovered your channel through word-of-mouth, and I think you guys are really something else. One of the best reviewers I've ever seen. You really do your homework, and are very talented in the technical aspect of things. Really looking forward to more of your content! Salud!
I was wondering why some areas looked so flat and now It seems that HBAO is the culprit. I figured it was an ambient occlusion or shadow problem but I didn't think turning AO down to SSAO would actually be beneficial.
ssao ftw
HBAO+ for sure seems broken/bugged. That's not its usual behavior at all.
working good for me but i'm not using ray tracing
@@XX-121 you like it better than SSAO?
@@DanKaschel i didn't try it, i figured HBAO+ was the best? i'll give it a shot later. what do you think?
I've discovered that setting DLAA as anti-aliasing with a target resolution and no upscaler. the image is clean as hell despite SMAA, TAA and no AA all looking like hell.
This makes sense on the surface, but when i then enable DLSS as an upscaler instead with the same target framerate, it looks slightly different.
both hit their framerate target, which tells me they both upscale the image, but with differences.
TAA and especially DLSS have a hideous sharpening "filter" over them, making 1440p and 1080p unplayable for me even at max settings on a 3070...
@@NOTH4R ... why would you need DLSS at 1080P
@@vyor8837 extra fps at MX settings k guess?
@@NOTH4R DLAA also seems to have sharpening filter , It doesn't quite look like using MSAA which I was hoping for.
@@vyor8837 Well, even with a 5800x and a 3070, with all RT and max settings ( at 1080p for the test ), the game can still dip below 60 ( in the 50s mostly ) and i don't really want that, DLSS does a pretty good job making it stay above 60 100% of the time
Is this video only uploaded in 1080 or is it just UA-cam's servers that are really slow right now to encode the 4K version?
(it has been almost a day, and I have been waiting to the the review in at least more meaningful quality than the horrible UA-cam 1080p encode)
Same. I've been waiting too. DF did comment in another thread that it's indeed processing but that was yesterday.
I'm still waiting to watch this as well. No point in watching this in compressed 1080p
@@youtindia Finally ...it 4K 🙂
It is pretty cool to have the cutscenes play in a wider aspect ratio despite being made for 16:9
I think you also missed the PS5 update rate for RT looking like a complete slide show. Watching pedestrians walk around in reflections could see them stuttering around as they were only updated what looked like 1/2 frame rate (or less) where as in the PC they're smooth. This is another trick consoles use to save performance, they often do it with dynamic shadow update rates as well.
7:00 notice how that sure PS5 loads in faster, but the PC version has assets pop-in after the loading screen is done.
Thats what happens when you use slower ssd like they did.
@@jakub7244 It is a combination of that and the fact that it is using a CPU-based decompression solution. I just thought that when the loadingscreen goes away the loading would be done, but it wasn't.
@@Blag_Cog Yep, mayby if directstorage was enabled it could be better, but still one of the better ports of console games.
@@jakub7244 afaik it has directstorage but it doesn't use GPU-based decompression like RTX I/O which I don't believe is out just yet.
But why is this video not in 4K?
It would be nice to have a summary of your optimized setting at the end of the video and some timestamps.
I like the settings menu that pops up when you try to start the game. It reminds me of the old PC games that used to do that.
I know that consoles struggle with AF, but I wouldn't have expected it to be so bad that it carries over to the current gen. Can a PS5 really not handle 8xAF? It can really hurt the otherwise great image quality.
Am surprised as well... Maybe an APU limitation thing?
It seems to be something that Sony consoles have struggled with more than anything. I remember all the way back in the PS3 days that there were regular complaints about it just being plain missing on PS3, yet present on the Xbox 360 version. Considering it's something that should have essentially zero performance impact, it's weird. Maybe it's just Sony's development tools at fault.
It's very demanding on APU based systems due to the bandwidth. On a discreet GPU in a PC it's basically free, but try that on the Steam Deck or any APU out there and you'll quickly see how much bandwidth AF eats up.
I think it'll be more that they optimise to make sure there's as much memory bandwidth as possible. AF does impact memory bandwidth quiet heavily in reality.
This is a last gen title, not current gen. Check out the difference between this game on any PC compared to Miles Morales on the PS5
Why is it not 4k?
Will direct storage improve the cpu limitation issue? Since CPU is decompressing, moving to GPU may free up CPU
Good question. I think it helps but not a full hardware replacement like the ps5 has for the cpu load.
Maybe but the question is , will a PlayStation studio implement a feature like that for their pc port . And who knows when it will come to pc
Square Enix recently reported that Forspoken with it enabled (the first game that will use Direct Storage), reduced load times down to around a second on PC and it also gave the game an increased level of fluidity. So probably....
Of course there's also RTX IO on Nvidia RTX cards, which is like a plugin for Direct Storage and will speed up SSD access and transfers by huge amount, will decompress compressed files "on the fly" and will free up the CPU from a whole host of processes, by diverting them directly to the GPU instead. Both running in tandem are expected to exceed what the PS5 can currently do and by a fairly large margin. This will be especially true on the next gen Lovelace GPU's, coupled together with Windows 11 and a fast Gen4 or an upcoming Gen5 NVME SSD.
@@shellshock3243 Of course spending thousands will get you a better result.
If it's CPU limited with RT on, why did you not test it with RT off?
You guys really need to add chapters for these long videos.
I just don't understand why so many console titles use anisotropic filtering at 4x or 2x. 16x literraly costs 1FPS (at most) but the overall quality increase is "worth 20 fps" compared to other settings.
Cuz most console games are played on a couch on TV in living room, so the distance between our eye & TV is obviously more so we won't be seeing those details.
It's actually a good tactic btw.
Btw any idea what setting does the PS5 use for weather particle Quality.
Alex missed this setting, unfortunately
Awesome. I was waiting for this. Already pre-ordered the game (loved it on the PS4), but I was hoping to get a breakdown of settings equivalent to PS5 Fidelity Mode and PS5 Performance RT.
@21:00 . Thank you very much, guys and gals. Sounds like the developers did a great job optimizing the game but still have some patches to go. Hopefully my i9-9900K, RTX 3080 Ti, NVME 2.0 SSD, and 64 Gigs of DDR4 3600 mhz ram can brute-force a 60 fps with balanced DLSS and settings close to PS5 fidelity mode (with ray-traced reflections object range turned down to 8). We'll see. Luckily, they gave us a big enough range of settings that I can potentially fine-tune the drops away.
I think you're going to struggle to get lower than 60fps with that build...
@@RicksonGM bros acting like his pc is a 500$ prebuilt 💀
nice show off :3
@@igi2135 You've got me wrong, dude. Not trying to show off; PC ports are sometimes sad affairs of needing to brute force performance. Arkham Knight, just about every Ubisoft game I've bought for the past five years, etc.
Don't have the time to try the game today, but I'm hoping I have enough oomph to avoid the occasional stutters and woes I've seen in some previews when ray-tracing was enabled (which were admittedly done before the last pre-launch patch). Was not trying to be a prick.
Great analysis! Features are great but performance with rt on is currently far from ideal on my system (i7 11700k + 3070 ti). Frame-rate is dropping below 60 constantly even at 1080p optimized settings. Both GPU and CPU utilizations are not maxed out.
Try disabling Multithreading
@@yazidhosni Thanks for the tip, I'll give that a try. I sort of fixed it by enabling XMP, but performance is still below expected.
Man I always feel right at home when Alex is driving any content in the channel especially PC related stuff.
alex's optimised settings 21:00
Just like elden ring, im getting spiderman for ps5 instead of pc. When it comes to games that im a fan of or games devs i rather have it physical.
Nixxes is great. Really excellent move by Sony to bring them in-house.
Yeah, nice way to quickly advance with big first-party PC porting - veteran team.
I have spent about 2.5 hours with the game so far on PC and with my set up I am getting a nice, consistent 80-90fps all high settings, 1440p, DRS on, RTX on Very High! Ryzen 9 3900x, RTX 2070S, 32GB Ram, installed to 1TB Samsung 970 NVME. This is another QUALITY PS port!
bruh what the hell, I can't get over 60 with 3080, i7 11700KF on those same settings
Well no fucking shit. You have a high end pc. Of course you're gonna get good fps.
Lovin it at 4k on a 3080 TI.
Spiderman port is the kind of game PC users need!
12:28 is that a type for the very high shadow quality? It just says "very shadow quality"
I have an RTX 3070 + Ryzen 5 5600x, yet even if I'm using optimized settings, my game still stutters, A LOT. I've seen other people on the steam forums having similar performance issues. I've also been experiencing a lot of visual bugs. A lot of pop in, even at max settings. DLSS doesn't even increase performance either. If anything it makes the image quality a lot worse. I've noticed this on every game that supports it. Also worth noting that I'm playing at 1080p.
Pre-built PC? Check thermals and see if ur downclocking
I have the same specs and do not have any issues you mentioned aside from fps dipping below 60 in time square with optimized setting + rtx on high. Mostly I get stable 70-90 fps, no pop ins. Make sure you have updated nvidia drivers and try to close any monitoring software in the meantime
I can only imagine how amazing Spider-Man 2 will look on PS5 when it comes out, being built from the ground up instead of an enhanced port.
PC will always look better, ps5 has the power of a rtx 2070, any ray tracing will be 30fps and the ray tracing will be 720p to 1080p.
@@thehorsecockexpress1068 i mean we already had a 60fps rt mode, and the reflections are not 720p lol, thats not what half res reflections means
@@thehorsecockexpress1068 who cares when Spider-Man 2 release first for years on PS5 only
@@thehorsecockexpress1068 You know that insomniac updated the resolution of the Ray tracing in R&C to 4k right?
@@thehorsecockexpress1068 "any ray tracing will be 30fps and the ray tracing will be 720p to 1080p" => How then have we already Performance RT 60 fps and R&C 40 fps RT modes ?
I wish there would been screencap for both the launcher setting options as there's stuff that the game doesn't include, like cloud particle detail, and also stuff like would they recommend dlss etc. or just post screencap of the in game settings fully too. I can sure just try them out but bit too much guess work at times.
Good stuff though, and game is a blast!
I played this on PS4 but I've been waiting for a PC release ever since. I am so excited!
This is why I play on consoles
No stressing over what settings to use to get maximum usage while also getting steady framerate
Just plug the damn thing and put the disc in then choose 30 fps version higher reaolution or 60 fps version lower res
Hmm idk i just set it on high and thats it...