That’s an understatement…I’m now finding these same mechanics present on a bunch of our other equipment. Answers a lot of amateur questions I’ve had in the past…
Man, really cool educational video. I've been a railfan for many years and never ever thought about having to change out damaged suspension on a locomotive before. You did a great job on sharing the whole process with us. Thanks for another great video, Kota.
Much appreciated! I never considered the logistics of it either until the task got thrown on our desk. Not just the spring, but how all of the other components come together to allow a smooth ride.
WoW, I now have a much better understanding of how each truck/bogie is mated with the locomotive body, and a much better appreciation for Locomotives, you did a great job explaining everything in a timely manner, Thank you. I have done machinic work in my days, but this is "what you call a days work" I just play Traing Game, you have the real deal, it is nice to see that many of these older trains are being kept running.
Train game…that’s certainly how a number of folks view it here. Anyhow, I’m glad I was able to bring you some more knowledge…I too have a much greater appreciation for the mechanics of this stuff, which I think is via proxy of any job that you’re actually involved in keeping things moving. I greatly appreciate your comment!
We actually have the very last original cab rebuild. 204 is former Santa Fe #2472. That was the last CF7 built retaining the entire original F7 cab. That also explains the slightly longer cab than usual, as they chopped it right at the point where the steps would’ve led down into the prime mover bay on the original model.
Fantastic, I was visiting Glasgow transport museum Scotland today and looking at the suspension on the steam locomotives up close ,it's as you say ,a whole lot of simple components working together in a complex whole 😊all the best from sunny Troon
You and me both. I hadn’t even a clue how the loco’s moved…now, I’m starting to notice these kinds of mechanics on all of our other equipment as well. Lots of eureka moments. Thank you much!
First of all, CF-7... awesome! I never knew much about the makeup of locomotive trucks and that the sticky-outy bit was a leaf spring -- or set of leaf springs. So I learned something today, cool.
You and me both. Being a hands-on learner, this kind of stuff is awesome for me, and much of the reason why I work there. I’m learning all sorts of stuff I never knew about railroading just about every week. It really gives you a whole new appreciation for the industry you’re in.
The dirt packed in the cross member there was probably authentic Cleburne crud when they refabricated the engine body from a covered wagon to its narrow hood that it wears today. While they rebuilt the prime mover and fabricated new hoods, they didn't do anything to the wheels or undercarriage. except maybe replace a whole wheel assembly with known good assemblies. It's nice to see a CF-7 still out there chugging and tugging. It's got the round roof and extra window so that means it was one of the first batch to come out of the shops at Cleburne. All the ones I ever handled had the squared off cabs and no extra window. Also I get a tear in my eye seeing 8330 back there. Hopefully some day she'll get back to her former glory! She used to be such a good engine.
Well, some interesting follow up to that. Number 204 was actually the last original cab retainer. It was number 2472 when rebuilt and I believe 238 as an F7. Good news is, 8330 is being rebuilt herself. The prime mover was swapped out in 2023, and were now in the process of fixing mechanical hiccups to bring her back online. We’re actually taking her out for her first test rides down the track next week…probably Wednesday or thereabouts.
My pleasure! It’s quite interesting how it all comes together, and it gave me a much better understanding of the suspension mechanics on much of our other equipment.
The EMD Blomberg loco truck design very similar to many post WWII lightweight passenger car trucks in having the leaf spring/spring plank assembly. The same wearing out issues you have with the loco springs also affect passenger car trucks. While those leaf springs can obviously be replaced, with NOT inconsiderable effort, as you demonstrated it gets really interesting when you have to roll a truck out from under a unit--easier (to some degree) on a car than a loco. In time there are components in truck assemblies (various bolts, bearing sleeves, the centerplate/bowl combo, etc) that can only be inspected/repaired/ replaced with a roll-out. Hmm-- this sounds like a potential longer, maybe multi-part program in your future!
Oh boy…can’t wait. Some of our cabooses also utilize that spring/plank design, which I found interesting afterwards. That loco is gonna need some further mechanical attention soon, as it’s starting to experience blow-by with trace amounts of oil shooting from the exhaust. I can only imagine those other bits are gonna need attention fairly soon, along with those seals we’ll have to replace. One thing’s for certain…JOB SECURITY!
Great video Dakota it was nice to meet you on National train day last weekend keep up the good work I like how the 204 has a RS5T and congratulations on getting the new prime mover for GP10 # 8330👍
@@kotabeaner cool and hope we can meet up again soon and I got a new train club video planned to be uploaded tomorrow so hope you enjoy it when I release it
0:31 I’ve changed several suspensions on vehicles if my own. Both leaf and coil springs. I’ve also have to replace suspensions on big trucks, too. Even if it’s big, it’s a simple, straightforward process. Simple, but definitely not easy. I really cannot imagine that it would be any harder to change springs on a locomotive. If you have the equipment, that is. I’ll be looking to see if there is any difference in the replacement process.
You and me both. I’m now noticing how such mechanics function on most of our other equipment, and I can now explain the ride differences between them… Thanks!!
Amazing video, exactly what I needed, and you're a great presenter! Now, I'm an automotive engineer (well I graduated like 4 months ago, but yeah) I know a lot about car suspensions, but train suspension frustrate me kinda. The secondary supension is pretty obvious (the one between the bogie/truck and the frame) however I'm less familiar with the primary (axle) suspension. Now it seems like the bearings at the end of the axles are in sort of a bracket that allows them to move vertically, but how can the axles "flex" as in, if one wheel goes up, the other should go down, as it's basically like a solid axle suspension on a car/truck. But, it seems like these blocks restrict the bearing box to only move vertically, which would make the "flex" impossible. I know that rails are much smoother than roads, so the train wheels don't really have to move that much relative to each other, but still, I assume it must compansate in a way if, say one rail has a slight bump while the other doesn't. Is there some sort of rubber block or something within the brackets around the bearing box, that allow it to move slightly?
Much appreciated! If I’m understanding your inquiry correctly, each of those “brackets” that hold the axles have 2 coil springs that allow vertical motion within the truck frame. So ultimately, there’s 8 coil springs on one truck. Each axle having 2 coil springs allow each one to move whatever way it needs to. The arrows in my explanation at 14:30 extradite where these coil springs are located. Now, realistically, the wheels just move with the contours of the rails, while the truck will be moving up and down, but each axle has those two springs to allow individual movement, so one, two, or three may be moving up, while one or more could be moving down.
@@kotabeaner Thanks for your response! Sorry I'm not a native english speaker, so my question may not come thrugh perfectly. So basically. All axles have 2 coil springs on each side (so 8 in total for a truck). Okay. Let's focus on a single axle, doesn't matter which. Now I know that the axle can move vertically, relative to the bogie frame, thanks to the coil springs. So we're only talking about a single axle, and let's imagine we're looking at this axle from the front, so the wheels (and rails) are on each side. Now imagine, that as loco moves along the rail, it encounters a bump on the left rail, and a "depression" on the right one. If the wheels follow the rails, this would mean that the left wheel "goes up" while the right one "goes down". Imagine, that all other axles of the train are on a completely flat and even track. In this scenario, the left wheel on this axle would be higher up relative to the bogie frame, while the right wheel would be lower compared to the bogie frame. This would be A OK if the left and right wheel were independent of each other, but of course they arent. This means, than in order for the left wheel on one end of the axle to "move up" and the right wheel on the other end of the axle to "move down", the axle (keep in mind, we're still looking at it from the front) would have to rotate clockwise a bit (not rotate as in, you know roll, but rotate along the longitudinal axis of the loco). This is the "flex" I was talking about. It seems to me that the axle boxes (on the left and right end of the axles) are in "brackets" or "guides" that allow them to move straight vertically, but wouldn't allow the "flex" or rotation along the longitudinal axis of the loco. My guess would be, that there's a bit of play between the axle/bearing box, and the guides/brackets that they sit in. I hope you understand now, sorry I have a hard time communicating my question 😂
Yes, I do understand now. I was thinking about it too simplistically. Ya know…I actually don’t have an answer for that. Perhaps, like you said, since tracks are smoother than roads, the axles can tilt in that manner and it’s hardly noticeable. I’ll have to research that, though, especially since I just took a look under the loco after reading that, and I don’t see any type of suspension to keep the axles straight. It does seem there ought to be, though, since I’ve never noticed the wheels bowing in any way. The museum has had some rough track in years past, so if anywhere was to see it, it’d be us…ha!
@@kotabeaner Thanks again for the answer! I've actually been asking this question on multiple forums, and noone could answer it haha. I think the track uneveness is generally small enough that the "play" of the bearings, bushings, etc. Is enough to compensate. Still, if ever you make a video related to the topic, I'll happily watch!
I appreciate the detail of the replacement of the springs,but for the edjamacation of the unknowing,I think you should be precise in the description of the "metal plates" namely the spring steel leaves,combined to make a spring assembly or pack. This type of spring is also common to many pickups and heavy haulage trucks,and older cars IE the rear end of most pre 90s cars.
That was one of the areas I fell short on. I didn’t know the names of any of those things until we executed this whole charade. I referenced them the best I knew how, but that feedback helps a lot in my understanding as well.
I have done this job on my own in Satanta Kansas and The Cimarron Valley Railroad. Some on GP30 locomotives and repeatedly on GP26 locomotives with ALCO trucks. The GP Blomburg trucks with outside swing hangers are significantly easier than the AAR ALCO inside swing hangers. The ALCO truck must be removed from the locomotive and the bolster plank retainer plates removed before removing the bolster plank to get to these springs. The AAR truck has three pairs per side rather than four. Although it can be done by one man, I don’t recommend it at all. Good job guys.
Was she original or rebuilt when you rode? I forget what year she got converted but you got either the three or four digit road number. Either way, we’d love to have you. You can always look into a cab ride on a weekend train, or an hour locomotive rental on our website - frrm.org.
She had been converted to a round top CF-7 in Blue/yellow warbonnet paint and 4 digit number. You can read about one of my experiences at Santa Ana in the May 2020 Trains Magazine- How to Make a Clawbar Sing.
Cool deal. Yeah, we have pictures of her in all 3 stages up in the cab. What I meant was, you rode her either while she had a 3 digit number (200 something as an F7) - or a 4 digit - 2472 as the rebuilt bluebonnet.
haha......trains fans dont know what that means......i do though......my chevy avalanche carried dirt one day and never recovered.......time for new rear shocks
I’m hoping to be able to. It’s not always easy to film a project while you’re one of the guys actually doing the work, but I’ll definitely try. I’m glad that people are enjoying them.
@@kotabeaner Oh yeah I completely understand that, I know this project took a lot of work! Thanks for the video, I do automotive work and it's cool to see other lines of mechanical work!
@@kotabeaner Your Videos also bring attention and interest in the Museum. Some Museums have regular UA-cam channels that are a significant source of revenue. Example: Battle Ship New Jersey is a big one. While it would be tough to have a channel like that Battle ship museum has, doing some regular videos of the type you just shared sould definately be something the FRM supports. Nothing but benificial to it's mission and message.
That’s been my intention from day 1. It not only brings potential traffic to the museum, but it’s also a great informational source for my viewers that aren’t as immersed on the mechanics of railroading, and it’s also a way for me to get content posted more often, as that’s where the majority of my time is spent. What I will say, is that the videos are generally supported. Unfortunately, it’s sometimes a struggle to obtain the content, occasionally have to get it approved, and then post it, sometimes for minimal interaction as compared to some of my other mainstream content. However, since I know there’s a general interest for these types of videos, I’ll keep doing them as much as I can. I’ll likely focus on more straightforward projects such as this one, instead of the every 3-4 month update.
I’ve seen locos with those trucks that also had a pair of coil springs located right above the wheels. Seen some where those leaf springs were replaced with some type of giant rubber looking bushing. Also, I’ve seen a lot of locomotives equipped with Koni shocks, which surprised me
This loco has those coil springs also. There’s a casing that kind of hides them under normal conditions - look at some of the shots while the loco is jacked up and you’ll see them. I’ve also seen those bushings on higher-end locos. I’ll have to look into what those are composed of.
Thank you. I would like to know two things about the suspension of larger steam locomotives. How the trailing truck carries the firebox and how it couples to the main frame and similarly, how is the pilot truck suspended and how does it apply the push to guide the main frame into a curve?
Unfortunately, you’re asking the wrong guy for steam locomotive details. I was a novice to even diesel locos until I began my work here. If I had to guess, though, I’d imagine theres a kingpin that secures the trailing truck(s) to the rest of the frame. My guess would also be that the pilot(s) have a sort of bushing or cushioning to contact the frame (if applicable) - and there’s likely another kingpin that holds the assembly to the frame, and as it turns into a curve, it pulls, or guides the rest of the body with it. Don’t quote me on any of that, those were all just my best guesses.
And I thought changing out leaf springs on a semi truck was difficult, I'll never complain about that again LOL 😆. Most difficult set of springs I have ever done, was about two years ago, Hendrickson suspension on a rollback dumpster retriever truck. Somehow, both sets of springs broke, which are mounted above the walking beam, right in the middle 😳. It took me, my supervisor and the boss all three, to get the new springs in place.....
Oh boy…that sounds like a job. Don’t be so quick to assume the difficulty of a project though…I know how to do a loco now, but if you put me in front of a semi truck spring, I guarantee I’d be looking at you more than the spring…Ha! For better or worse, each has its quirks, and it’s always more clarifying once you know how to do it.
Right…that happened in 2022 when a contracting firm lifted it with cranes to spin it. The cable on that side tightened, pushing in on the sunshade and bending it. Ironically, it’s actually made for a convenient out-the-window radio mount to get longer range when switching.
Excellent stuff. Next time we're at the museum, I'll take time to look at the suspension, something I never even considered until this video. Thanks for the tutorial!👍 PS I live about 20 minutes or so from the Willow (North Pole) end of the line.
Thank You! I never considered most of the intricacies either until this project - now I’m realizing how the suspension on all of our cars work…imagine that. I tell you what, if you’re that close, why not stop by the yard one of these weekday afternoons? I’d be happy to show you around if that’s something you’d be interested in.
Never heard the name blonberg. We mistly had these trucks on older locomotives. Newwer ones had flexicoil trucks. These springs are what you call fully eliptical. We call those swing hanger trucks. I never had to change those springs. Never saw a bad set.
I’d never seen a bad set either until this. 204 tends to lean in the rear slightly, even with both springs swapped, so I wonder if there’s something else amidst that’s causing that, as well as, ultimately, increased wear on the rear components.
I’m actually not 100% sure if they’re still manufactured. They may still be, but it’s my understanding that the set we acquired was a refurbished set from someone up north. I’d venture to guess that the broken set was the original, but that might be wrong. Perhaps it was installed with the Clebourne rebuild.
I’m not entirely sure. I imagine they’re US developed, but I’m not sure where you purchase them independently. There’s likely third party vendors for them, but the set we acquired was actually a refurbished set by somebody up north somewhere.
The "saddle bracket" is commonly referred to as the safety hanger, and it should never be touching the leaf spring plank. The safety hanger is purely there as a safety device, to catch the spring plank and/or springs if they were to fail and want to fall into the track and cause derailment.
That’s kind of what I realized afterwards. After I shot that video I realized that it couldn’t really swing if it was touching…I appreciate the insight. I only know as much as I got from doing the job, ha!
Depends on the locomotive. Like I discussed here, those with the “Blomberg” truck have two on each individual axle (so 8 in total for each truck), and two leaf springs on each truck for the frame suspension.
Now this isn't something you see everyday. Good looks.
That was the intent of the video anyhow…thanks for stopping by my friend.👊🏼
Man, and I thought changing truck springs was fun, but this tops it!!
Fun…that or the other F word…frustrating. Which one usually depends on how long it takes…Ha!
Excellent work! Martin Blomberg was a genius. Then again he started at Pullman so of course he was.
That’s an understatement…I’m now finding these same mechanics present on a bunch of our other equipment. Answers a lot of amateur questions I’ve had in the past…
@@kotabeaner The old heads used to tell me that EMD E-units “rode like Pullmans.” Turns out there was a good reason for that.
Extremely interesting. Thanks, Dakota.
Man, really cool educational video. I've been a railfan for many years and never ever thought about having to change out damaged suspension on a locomotive before. You did a great job on sharing the whole process with us. Thanks for another great video, Kota.
Much appreciated! I never considered the logistics of it either until the task got thrown on our desk. Not just the spring, but how all of the other components come together to allow a smooth ride.
WoW, I now have a much better understanding of how each truck/bogie is mated with the locomotive body, and a much better appreciation for Locomotives, you did a great job explaining everything in a timely manner, Thank you. I have done machinic work in my days, but this is "what you call a days work" I just play Traing Game, you have the real deal, it is nice to see that many of these older trains are being kept running.
Train game…that’s certainly how a number of folks view it here. Anyhow, I’m glad I was able to bring you some more knowledge…I too have a much greater appreciation for the mechanics of this stuff, which I think is via proxy of any job that you’re actually involved in keeping things moving. I greatly appreciate your comment!
Ooo, you guys have one of the CF-7 rebuilds that retain a section of the F7 cab :) Sweet!
We actually have the very last original cab rebuild. 204 is former Santa Fe #2472. That was the last CF7 built retaining the entire original F7 cab. That also explains the slightly longer cab than usual, as they chopped it right at the point where the steps would’ve led down into the prime mover bay on the original model.
Dakota,you did a great job explaining the job.
Such was the intention. Much appreciated.
Fantastic, I was visiting Glasgow transport museum Scotland today and looking at the suspension on the steam locomotives up close ,it's as you say ,a whole lot of simple components working together in a complex whole 😊all the best from sunny Troon
That’s exactly right. Cheers, my friend.
Wow, i never knew that lefe spring was used on locomotive, wow i learned something today watching you...wow blown away....!!
superb presentation. detailed explanation. thanks for posting this video.
Appreciate that! I’m glad I was able to portray it fairly understandably.
Very excellent video! I thought I knew a fair amount about these trucks, today it was well-explained to me about how much I didn't know!
You and me both. I hadn’t even a clue how the loco’s moved…now, I’m starting to notice these kinds of mechanics on all of our other equipment as well. Lots of eureka moments. Thank you much!
Your script describing the work was excellent. You make a good technical narrator.
Well, I suppose that’s of the essence when trying to educate about a technical job…Thank You sir!
Nice video! 1974-2010 locomotive employee…. CNW/UPRR…changed countless leaf springs.
Nice trip down “memory lane” thanks for posting 👍😎
Interesting video, i certainly learned the components of a locomotive suspension with leaf springs and service process 👍
First of all, CF-7... awesome! I never knew much about the makeup of locomotive trucks and that the sticky-outy bit was a leaf spring -- or set of leaf springs. So I learned something today, cool.
You and me both. Being a hands-on learner, this kind of stuff is awesome for me, and much of the reason why I work there. I’m learning all sorts of stuff I never knew about railroading just about every week. It really gives you a whole new appreciation for the industry you’re in.
The dirt packed in the cross member there was probably authentic Cleburne crud when they refabricated the engine body from a covered wagon to its narrow hood that it wears today. While they rebuilt the prime mover and fabricated new hoods, they didn't do anything to the wheels or undercarriage. except maybe replace a whole wheel assembly with known good assemblies. It's nice to see a CF-7 still out there chugging and tugging. It's got the round roof and extra window so that means it was one of the first batch to come out of the shops at Cleburne. All the ones I ever handled had the squared off cabs and no extra window.
Also I get a tear in my eye seeing 8330 back there. Hopefully some day she'll get back to her former glory! She used to be such a good engine.
Well, some interesting follow up to that. Number 204 was actually the last original cab retainer. It was number 2472 when rebuilt and I believe 238 as an F7. Good news is, 8330 is being rebuilt herself. The prime mover was swapped out in 2023, and were now in the process of fixing mechanical hiccups to bring her back online. We’re actually taking her out for her first test rides down the track next week…probably Wednesday or thereabouts.
Great narration. You’ve got talent. Subscribed.
Much appreciated all around. Guess that means I’ve gotta keep doing it…
Excellent video! Clear explanations and graphics.
Hey, I tried my best. Good to know it was effective - Thank you!
Man the last thing the world needs are squatted trains, thank you for saving us from that reality
That’s what I said… others may not be so lucky.
I have changed those springs when working for soo line RR
beautiful job everybody thanks for sharing
What an outstanding and informative video! You really had an opportunity to learn so much participating in their repair!
That’s just one of many things you get to do as an employee. Get to do…I suppose you HAVE to since you’re being paid…🤣 Much appreciated!
Excellent video. Always wondered how those trucks were maintained and now I know. Thank you.
My pleasure! It’s quite interesting how it all comes together, and it gave me a much better understanding of the suspension mechanics on much of our other equipment.
The EMD Blomberg loco truck design very similar to many post WWII lightweight passenger car trucks in having the leaf spring/spring plank assembly. The same wearing out issues you have with the loco springs also affect passenger car trucks.
While those leaf springs can obviously be replaced, with NOT inconsiderable effort, as you demonstrated it gets really interesting when you have to roll a truck out from under a unit--easier (to some degree) on a car than a loco. In time there are components in truck assemblies (various bolts, bearing sleeves, the centerplate/bowl combo, etc) that can only be inspected/repaired/ replaced with a roll-out.
Hmm-- this sounds like a potential longer, maybe multi-part program in your future!
Oh boy…can’t wait. Some of our cabooses also utilize that spring/plank design, which I found interesting afterwards. That loco is gonna need some further mechanical attention soon, as it’s starting to experience blow-by with trace amounts of oil shooting from the exhaust. I can only imagine those other bits are gonna need attention fairly soon, along with those seals we’ll have to replace. One thing’s for certain…JOB SECURITY!
@@kotabeanerThe easiest way to fix blow-by is to put a load on the motor and run it wide open.
Great video Dakota it was nice to meet you on National train day last weekend keep up the good work I like how the 204 has a RS5T and congratulations on getting the new prime mover for GP10 # 8330👍
Thank you. 204 doesn’t wear that 5T anymore though. That was only a temporary fix while I rebuilt its native horn.
@@kotabeaner cool and hope we can meet up again soon and I got a new train club video planned to be uploaded tomorrow so hope you enjoy it when I release it
0:31 I’ve changed several suspensions on vehicles if my own.
Both leaf and coil springs.
I’ve also have to replace suspensions on big trucks, too.
Even if it’s big, it’s a simple, straightforward process.
Simple, but definitely not easy.
I really cannot imagine that it would be any harder to change springs on a locomotive.
If you have the equipment, that is.
I’ll be looking to see if there is any difference in the replacement process.
Great and impressive job ; thanks from old New Orleans 😇
Many thanks!
That brings back memories.
Mine are being made now…
Great video!!!! I learned a lot about how these trucks are assembled & work. Thank you!
You and me both. I’m now noticing how such mechanics function on most of our other equipment, and I can now explain the ride differences between them… Thanks!!
Now i have the confidence to do this at home thanks!
Very cool. Well done.
That’s what I said. Much appreciated.
Great job explaining everything going on ther . Thanks for the video.
My pleasure. Thanks for watching.
i always wondered what i was looking at pertaining to those leaf springs.......never knew what they were
I think a lot of people wonder that…I too did at one point.
Great video! Thanks!
Very Cool! Thank you for sharing!!!
I’m glad I was able to. Thanks for watching!
my Great Uncle Chas. A. Spencer, was the one who thought up the cf7 concept for Santa Flush RR back in the day, at the Cleburne TX shops.
Funny enough, we are about to do the same thing to one of our interurban cars at our museum.
Best of luck. She’ll ride a lot better.
Amazing video, exactly what I needed, and you're a great presenter! Now, I'm an automotive engineer (well I graduated like 4 months ago, but yeah) I know a lot about car suspensions, but train suspension frustrate me kinda. The secondary supension is pretty obvious (the one between the bogie/truck and the frame) however I'm less familiar with the primary (axle) suspension. Now it seems like the bearings at the end of the axles are in sort of a bracket that allows them to move vertically, but how can the axles "flex" as in, if one wheel goes up, the other should go down, as it's basically like a solid axle suspension on a car/truck. But, it seems like these blocks restrict the bearing box to only move vertically, which would make the "flex" impossible. I know that rails are much smoother than roads, so the train wheels don't really have to move that much relative to each other, but still, I assume it must compansate in a way if, say one rail has a slight bump while the other doesn't. Is there some sort of rubber block or something within the brackets around the bearing box, that allow it to move slightly?
Much appreciated! If I’m understanding your inquiry correctly, each of those “brackets” that hold the axles have 2 coil springs that allow vertical motion within the truck frame. So ultimately, there’s 8 coil springs on one truck. Each axle having 2 coil springs allow each one to move whatever way it needs to. The arrows in my explanation at 14:30 extradite where these coil springs are located. Now, realistically, the wheels just move with the contours of the rails, while the truck will be moving up and down, but each axle has those two springs to allow individual movement, so one, two, or three may be moving up, while one or more could be moving down.
@@kotabeaner Thanks for your response! Sorry I'm not a native english speaker, so my question may not come thrugh perfectly.
So basically. All axles have 2 coil springs on each side (so 8 in total for a truck). Okay. Let's focus on a single axle, doesn't matter which.
Now I know that the axle can move vertically, relative to the bogie frame, thanks to the coil springs.
So we're only talking about a single axle, and let's imagine we're looking at this axle from the front, so the wheels (and rails) are on each side. Now imagine, that as loco moves along the rail, it encounters a bump on the left rail, and a "depression" on the right one. If the wheels follow the rails, this would mean that the left wheel "goes up" while the right one "goes down". Imagine, that all other axles of the train are on a completely flat and even track. In this scenario, the left wheel on this axle would be higher up relative to the bogie frame, while the right wheel would be lower compared to the bogie frame. This would be A OK if the left and right wheel were independent of each other, but of course they arent. This means, than in order for the left wheel on one end of the axle to "move up" and the right wheel on the other end of the axle to "move down", the axle (keep in mind, we're still looking at it from the front) would have to rotate clockwise a bit (not rotate as in, you know roll, but rotate along the longitudinal axis of the loco). This is the "flex" I was talking about. It seems to me that the axle boxes (on the left and right end of the axles) are in "brackets" or "guides" that allow them to move straight vertically, but wouldn't allow the "flex" or rotation along the longitudinal axis of the loco. My guess would be, that there's a bit of play between the axle/bearing box, and the guides/brackets that they sit in.
I hope you understand now, sorry I have a hard time communicating my question 😂
Yes, I do understand now. I was thinking about it too simplistically. Ya know…I actually don’t have an answer for that. Perhaps, like you said, since tracks are smoother than roads, the axles can tilt in that manner and it’s hardly noticeable. I’ll have to research that, though, especially since I just took a look under the loco after reading that, and I don’t see any type of suspension to keep the axles straight. It does seem there ought to be, though, since I’ve never noticed the wheels bowing in any way. The museum has had some rough track in years past, so if anywhere was to see it, it’d be us…ha!
@@kotabeaner Thanks again for the answer! I've actually been asking this question on multiple forums, and noone could answer it haha. I think the track uneveness is generally small enough that the "play" of the bearings, bushings, etc. Is enough to compensate. Still, if ever you make a video related to the topic, I'll happily watch!
Besides leaf springs, do they have shock absorbers like a car or truck? If not, what keeps it from "bouncing"?
Excellent video!
Much appreciated!
I have done that in the past when I worked for soo line RR
I appreciate the detail of the replacement of the springs,but for the edjamacation of the unknowing,I think you should be precise in the description of the "metal plates" namely the spring steel leaves,combined to make a spring assembly or pack. This type of spring is also common to many pickups and heavy haulage trucks,and older cars IE the rear end of most pre 90s cars.
That was one of the areas I fell short on. I didn’t know the names of any of those things until we executed this whole charade. I referenced them the best I knew how, but that feedback helps a lot in my understanding as well.
Nice Video !
Great job on the video
I have done this job on my own in Satanta Kansas and The Cimarron Valley Railroad. Some on GP30 locomotives and repeatedly on GP26 locomotives with ALCO trucks. The GP Blomburg trucks with outside swing hangers are significantly easier than the AAR ALCO inside swing hangers. The ALCO truck must be removed from the locomotive and the bolster plank retainer plates removed before removing the bolster plank to get to these springs. The AAR truck has three pairs per side rather than four.
Although it can be done by one man, I don’t recommend it at all.
Good job guys.
Jolly good show!
Equally jolly ride afterwards!
One set of springs would make 4 semi tractor trailers the stiffest ride on the road. 🤣
That’s for sure. As I’m starting to see leaf springs more and more on common vehicles, they all pale in comparison to even just one of these…
I got a cab ride on that engine in the late seventies on the Santa Fe in Santa Ana, California. Would love to do it again one of these days
Was she original or rebuilt when you rode? I forget what year she got converted but you got either the three or four digit road number. Either way, we’d love to have you. You can always look into a cab ride on a weekend train, or an hour locomotive rental on our website - frrm.org.
She had been converted to a round top CF-7 in Blue/yellow warbonnet paint and 4 digit number. You can read about one of my experiences at Santa Ana in the May 2020 Trains Magazine- How to Make a Clawbar Sing.
Cool deal. Yeah, we have pictures of her in all 3 stages up in the cab. What I meant was, you rode her either while she had a 3 digit number (200 something as an F7) - or a 4 digit - 2472 as the rebuilt bluebonnet.
Big diesel locomotive got Carolina Squat hahaha
haha......trains fans dont know what that means......i do though......my chevy avalanche carried dirt one day and never recovered.......time for new rear shocks
You should definitely do more of these.
I’m hoping to be able to. It’s not always easy to film a project while you’re one of the guys actually doing the work, but I’ll definitely try. I’m glad that people are enjoying them.
@@kotabeaner Oh yeah I completely understand that, I know this project took a lot of work! Thanks for the video, I do automotive work and it's cool to see other lines of mechanical work!
@@kotabeaner Your Videos also bring attention and interest in the Museum. Some Museums have regular UA-cam channels that are a significant source of revenue. Example: Battle Ship New Jersey is a big one. While it would be tough to have a channel like that Battle ship museum has, doing some regular videos of the type you just shared sould definately be something the FRM supports. Nothing but benificial to it's mission and message.
That’s been my intention from day 1. It not only brings potential traffic to the museum, but it’s also a great informational source for my viewers that aren’t as immersed on the mechanics of railroading, and it’s also a way for me to get content posted more often, as that’s where the majority of my time is spent. What I will say, is that the videos are generally supported. Unfortunately, it’s sometimes a struggle to obtain the content, occasionally have to get it approved, and then post it, sometimes for minimal interaction as compared to some of my other mainstream content. However, since I know there’s a general interest for these types of videos, I’ll keep doing them as much as I can. I’ll likely focus on more straightforward projects such as this one, instead of the every 3-4 month update.
I’ve seen locos with those trucks that also had a pair of coil springs located right above the wheels. Seen some where those leaf springs were replaced with some type of giant rubber looking bushing. Also, I’ve seen a lot of locomotives equipped with Koni shocks, which surprised me
This loco has those coil springs also. There’s a casing that kind of hides them under normal conditions - look at some of the shots while the loco is jacked up and you’ll see them. I’ve also seen those bushings on higher-end locos. I’ll have to look into what those are composed of.
@@kotabeaner yeah you actually mentioned the coils in the video right after I commented lol
Awesome!
Great video, but the best riding EMD truck was on the SD-9's
I’ll have to take your word for it…we haven’t had the fortune of owning one of those locos…
Thank you.
I would like to know two things about the suspension of larger steam locomotives. How the trailing truck carries the firebox and how it couples to the main frame and similarly, how is the pilot truck suspended and how does it apply the push to guide the main frame into a curve?
Unfortunately, you’re asking the wrong guy for steam locomotive details. I was a novice to even diesel locos until I began my work here. If I had to guess, though, I’d imagine theres a kingpin that secures the trailing truck(s) to the rest of the frame. My guess would also be that the pilot(s) have a sort of bushing or cushioning to contact the frame (if applicable) - and there’s likely another kingpin that holds the assembly to the frame, and as it turns into a curve, it pulls, or guides the rest of the body with it. Don’t quote me on any of that, those were all just my best guesses.
I’ve handled tractor trailer leaf springs that are not too different than one of those leaf springs. They too are very heavy.
I’d imagine so. Especially with the kind of terrain that tractors often handle…I respect that type of job.
And I thought changing out leaf springs on a semi truck was difficult, I'll never complain about that again LOL 😆. Most difficult set of springs I have ever done, was about two years ago, Hendrickson suspension on a rollback dumpster retriever truck. Somehow, both sets of springs broke, which are mounted above the walking beam, right in the middle 😳. It took me, my supervisor and the boss all three, to get the new springs in place.....
Oh boy…that sounds like a job. Don’t be so quick to assume the difficulty of a project though…I know how to do a loco now, but if you put me in front of a semi truck spring, I guarantee I’d be looking at you more than the spring…Ha! For better or worse, each has its quirks, and it’s always more clarifying once you know how to do it.
1:20 #204 has some awning issues as well
Right…that happened in 2022 when a contracting firm lifted it with cranes to spin it. The cable on that side tightened, pushing in on the sunshade and bending it. Ironically, it’s actually made for a convenient out-the-window radio mount to get longer range when switching.
Excellent stuff. Next time we're at the museum, I'll take time to look at the suspension, something I never even considered until this video. Thanks for the tutorial!👍
PS I live about 20 minutes or so from the Willow (North Pole) end of the line.
Thank You! I never considered most of the intricacies either until this project - now I’m realizing how the suspension on all of our cars work…imagine that. I tell you what, if you’re that close, why not stop by the yard one of these weekday afternoons? I’d be happy to show you around if that’s something you’d be interested in.
@@kotabeaner That would be great. Which end are you normally at; Willow or Parrish?
Willow. Sometimes we have work in Parrish, and I’m commonly out on the track for maintenance purposes, but Willow is the base.
Never heard the name blonberg. We mistly had these trucks on older locomotives. Newwer ones had flexicoil trucks. These springs are what you call fully eliptical. We call those swing hanger trucks. I never had to change those springs. Never saw a bad set.
I’d never seen a bad set either until this. 204 tends to lean in the rear slightly, even with both springs swapped, so I wonder if there’s something else amidst that’s causing that, as well as, ultimately, increased wear on the rear components.
Thanks
So these springs are still manufactured? How old was the broken one?
I’m actually not 100% sure if they’re still manufactured. They may still be, but it’s my understanding that the set we acquired was a refurbished set from someone up north. I’d venture to guess that the broken set was the original, but that might be wrong. Perhaps it was installed with the Clebourne rebuild.
Where do you buy leaf springs? USA or Foreign made?
I’m not entirely sure. I imagine they’re US developed, but I’m not sure where you purchase them independently. There’s likely third party vendors for them, but the set we acquired was actually a refurbished set by somebody up north somewhere.
The "saddle bracket" is commonly referred to as the safety hanger, and it should never be touching the leaf spring plank. The safety hanger is purely there as a safety device, to catch the spring plank and/or springs if they were to fail and want to fall into the track and cause derailment.
That’s kind of what I realized afterwards. After I shot that video I realized that it couldn’t really swing if it was touching…I appreciate the insight. I only know as much as I got from doing the job, ha!
@@kotabeaner That’s good! You’re on your way to knowing a lot about locomotives and Blomberg trucks
Spring service on passenger cars can be objectionable as well but not that bad
Considering that basically all we run is passenger equipment, that may be a future project of ours.
Very early Cleburne F7 chop job.
U SPOKE VERY LOUD AND CLEAR AND U WERE VERY KNOLAGED AT WAT U WERE DOING
I thought most locomotives have three coil springs in a bracket?
Depends on the locomotive. Like I discussed here, those with the “Blomberg” truck have two on each individual axle (so 8 in total for each truck), and two leaf springs on each truck for the frame suspension.
Good way to lose a hand or an arm if those jacks fail.
wow Who knew .
I suppose we all do now.
I can say, this locomotive to me is a bit of an ugly duckling, still a great video nonetheless.
guess you guys dont like gloves
Or any kind of dust protection when using compressed air to blow all the dust and crap out of the mounting.