#Railnatter
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
- Okay, a cheeky local one this week, amongst some news... Haxby station is looking increasingly likely to appear in the next few years, so let's talk about if it is in the right place, what the wider railway network around York ought to look like, some of the timetable challenges of achieving that, and why it is being designed to look so awful again when the HUB station designs are now formally part of Network Rail's design guidelines.
Also: THE NEWS.
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A revised design for the Haxby Station needs to be put forward to the local authority for approval.
Why must new stations always be exactly 2 empty fields away from any civilisation? When there is space directly in the core? And the thing it does link to is an isolated culdesac, ages away from any core.
Often those fields fill up quickly with new housing in subsequent years. There is an 800 home development planned for the north of Haxby a couple of fields to the west of the new station site, but no new paths shown in plans of either to provide convenient access between the two. Haxby Town Council has commented on that among other issues in their formal objection to the proposal. They also note the development encroaches on land designated as green belt, which completely surrounds Haxby. I don't think green belt status would stop development entirely but it probably places more limits on what is acceptable and makes promoters jump through additional hoops to justify their plans.
@@marktownend8065Which is exactly the reason 'green belt' land should be abolished as a concept.
The urban areas of the north requires electric trains running at 15 minutes frequency to reduce congestion and facilitate the modal shift from road to rail, e.g., between Leeds and Bradford.
The park and ride at Rawcliffe has a proper waiting room and toilets. Why not the same at the Haxby Parkway Station?
Instead of leasing the more expensive bi-modes the ROSCO'S should be required to provide EMU's by the cascade of the redundant trains from the South. In addition, the ROSCO contracts should include making the railways carbon free with the funding of OLE to accommodate the cascaded EMU's.
If the platforms are raised why not consider an underpass and ramps and stairs to the platforms similar to the equivalent stations in Switzerland.
Why is the single line between Cambridge and Kings Lynn electrified, but not the double track line between York and Scarborough?
There needs to be better connectivity within the urban areas of the North, i.e., with rapid transit electrification.
Why wasn't an island platform with a passenger underpass, stairs and ramps considered to match equivalent stations in Switzerland?
Why is Northern inviting tenders for bi-modes? With the acceleration of electrification of the urban network of the North, the redundant high mileage Electrostars can be cascaded to the West Yorkshire and Humber Region.
As you may know the high mileage Electrostars are being replaced on East Anglian, C2C, GT and Southeaster. They can be readily refurbished for a further 20 years service.
Why is the Government subsidising buses from Leeds to Scarborough, but hasnt yet funded the electrification of the rail line?
There is a fundamental issue of why the railway station facilities are minimal while a huge car park is include. This suggests that modal shift from road to rail is not happening. So USA designed and chinese built cars is the true transport plan. Will the plan include for freight to continue to be transported between cities by diesel HGV's?
The Line between Leeds and Harrogate needs to be electrified to match the East Anglian Line, e.g., between Cambridge and Kings Lynn, or to Walton on Naze.
If the lifts were replaced with neat ramps two stations could probably be built for the price of one.
Unfortunately, design standards don't allow for "neat" ramps
The recent German Government of Baden Wurttemberg report showed that electrification is 30 to 80% cheaper than bi-modes and hydrogen over 30 years on most routes. Therefore, the more expensive bi-modes and hydrogen trains should not be located in the North of England. The North should not be exclusively required to operate the more expensive rolling stock, compared to the better off South - it doesn't make sense.
Would it be better for some rural stations to have warm Portable buildings including toilets like at race courses, instead of the shit freezing bus shelters?
Why are rolling stock companies using private finance for 30 to 80% more expensive bi-modes to avoid the electrification of the network?
The new Beaulieu Park Station in Chelmsford looks better than Haxby. I agree with the location being questionable. A Parkway near the ring road and another at Strensall would be better.
The UK Railways were famous for design, so why should the Haxby Station be inferior to the Radcliffe Park and Ride.
A shared cycle walking path?! In the year of our lord 2024? Cmon man that's so depressing, minimum viable product thinking. Shared paths have the same problem as mutli-configuration spaces on trains which is they're space efficient in theory but introduce social frictions and conflicts that just make using them unpleasant.
Particularly in a station where people are expected to come and go in surges, it's simply not enough to get a measuring tape out, find the average width of a person or bike, and times that 2.5 and call it a day (and also assuming only like 3 people would ever want to cycle).
Same thing with the awkward little ramp and stairs into the station, imagine being a wheelchair user, having to cut across people exiting the footbridge to squeeze your way along to the lift? Hardly impossible but just unpleasant.
With the completion of electrification and a viaduct between Forster Square and Exchange the service between York and Manchester could go via Leeds and Bradford.
as somebody who lives in Haxby, i’d forgotten about the Design Manual for Medium to Small Stations, (remember i was following the competition a couple of years ago) after seeing it again why hasn’t any of the Design been followed and can’t Network Rail be actually made aware?.. with there own better Design guideline’s etc :)
The high mileage Electrostars currently in service in the South are very good EMU's. They are very suitable for cascading to the North and in particular to West Yorkshire and Humber Regions which are still operating obsolete DMU's on most routes, e.g., between Leeds and Halifax via Bradford.
With the connection of the terminus stations of Bradford the Wharfedale and Airedale Metro Lines should be extended to the rest of Yorkshire, including to Sheffield.
Secondhand high milage Electrostars from the high Great Northern, East Anglian Line and C2C should be cascaded to the north to accelerate electrification of the urban network of West Yorkshire network, e.g., between Leeds and Halifax.
An idea I had for Scarborough services if removed from the TPE service group is to run it as a through local service to Leeds terminating from the west via Castleford picking up that additional south York stop you suggested as well as those on the branch itself. That would decouple the service from broader TPE performance while keeping the connection to West Yorkshire.
The UK needs a Sovereign Wealth Fund similar to Norway, and an Investment Bank otherwise the DfT and the Treasury will underfund urban electrification of the North, to match London, e.g., the Overground.
Your podcast is excellent as it considers constructive criticism that appears to be currently lacking in Network Rail. The rolling stock is using private finance but NR appears starved of capital to upgrade the infrastructure. The urban network of the North needs to be electrified to match London. The high mileage Electrostars should be cascaded to West Yorkshire and the Humber Region. However, this requires the acceleration of the rollout of Overhead Line Equipment to enable the modal shift from road to rail.
Even at this stage the Station design can be changed to include a Park and Ride and a proper Porta Cabin Waiting Room and Toilet.
In addition, some think nice can be created with an island platform and an underpass to give good accessibility without the lifts, e.g., to match the NR design guide and the typical hub stations of Switzerland.
The new combined Parkway and Park and Ride at Goldsborough can replace the Park and Ride on the outskirts of York which can be used for overspill housing.
Staff are available at the Rawcliff Park and Ride so a combined Parkway and Park and Ride would make sense to match the combinec Oxford Parkway and Park and Ride.
The local councils should work with the Mayor and Network Rail to find the optimum locations for the combined Parkway and Park and Rides!
The Beaulieu Park Station follows the NR Design Guide and the Haxby Station needs to do the same.
In addition, the revised design can be completed very quickly using the design guide and with reference to existing excellent hub stations of Switzerland.
It's sheer incompetence to proceed with the shit design. The contract period can be reduced to deliver the project more quickly.
The optimum service frequency to achieve a walk-on usage is 15 minutes.
The government is subsidising a private bus operator to run a competitive service with the state owned operator, Northern, between Leeds and Scarborough. The rail service would be better patronised if the £2 cap was equally applied to the state-owned rail service. In even more passengers would use the trains with the optimum 15 srrvice frequency.
Alternatively, the new combined Parkway and Park and Ride for York can be at Hassby.
The Haxby Station should become a combined Parkway and Park and Ride. The Radcliffe Park and Ride could then be replaced with housing to pay for the new location at Haxby, to match Oxford, i.e., the combined Parkway and Park and Ride.
Compare with the investment. Manchester is allowed a new through station to replace Piccadilly with the funding of a new road tunnel.under the Thames at Dartford arguably to reduce road congestion on the M25 motorway to Dover
Hi Garath, You are spot on that the station at Haxby is a poor design compared to the Network Rail Design Guide. In addition, it standard bullshit that Overhead Line Equipment is too expensive for the urban areas of the North. However, the recent Government of Baden Wurttemberg report has made absolutely clear that electrification is cheaper than bi-modes or hydrogen over 30 years on most routes. It is cheaper, therefore, to electrify the urban lines of Yorkshire, instead of leasing expensive bi-modes and hydrogen trains from the rip off ROSCO International Banks, e.g., between Leeds and Skipton and York and Scarborough.
I agree you are absolutely correct to call out the scam for what i believe is a profit seeking adventure by the Globally owned ROSCO's.
Is a new HS2 station being built at Solihull?
what would your ultamate midium to long term plan for greater york and north yorkshire look like.
The line between York and Leeds via Harrogate should be double track and electrified. The new Mayor of North Yorkshire should introduce the popular policy to improve connectivity of the Region. It's a no-brainer to show he's different from the old policy. In addition, the new Mayor should reopen the Goldsborough Station as a combined Parkway and Park and Ride for Harrogate and York.
The Haxby Station has lifts for physically disabled passengers, but not toilets for those with urinary frequency issues, a common condition for elderly people, why the different priority?
The DfT is able to fund roads via National Highways, but starves Network Rail of funds for the electrification of the urban rail network of Yorkshire, i.e., between York and Scarborough and between Bradford and Huddersfield.
Hi Gareth, As you explain the Haxby Station is absolutely rubbish and needs to be redesigned to match the Network Rail Design Guidance!
Hi Gareth, The financial expert Richard Murphy has recently stated see his podcast) there is no "Black Hole" in the UK finances. It's a false agenda, to justify George Osborne''s discredited policy of "Austerity" and the lack of investment in the railways of the North.
Please, compare the lack of investment in West Yorkshire with the electrification of the single line to Walton on Naze in East Anglia!
Correction Hessay.
The Haxby Station is 20 years out of date.