The interests of the professional managerial class will always share their interests with the upper class. The upper executive class leans into this, to create tension between the PMC and workers, and in doing so create an essential buffer between executives and workers to keep everyone divided and segmented.
I am in the PMC because I have an advanced degree and a job to match. Outside of quitting my job (because I don't want to be poor, the financial situation is already not great), how can I be a PMC good boy (i.e. an ally of workers, not the bourgeoisie)?
You can't be. Struggle is the only way. How would you propose being a PMC and perpetuating the class divide through your very existence as a PMC and somehow be capable of being an "ally" to workers? The only PMC's the working class needs are PMCs ready to recognize their position for what it is, quit, and throw in their lot with the workers. If you're ready to do that, cool... if not, your not an ally, and you never will be.
@@sthayer2667 quitting your job isn’t “being an ally” it’s becoming a member of the working class. Maybe you need to learn the definition. Some people aren’t physically able to do manual labor, some aren’t skilled, some need the benefits that come with their job so they don’t die in our shtty healthcare system. Most probably don’t even like their jobs and only do them because of some combination of the aforementioned reasons. Before you run your mouth about other peoples lives and situations and how shtty they are for making the choices they made, maybe try attempting some small amount of empathy- you know, that thing you expect everyone else to show you.
@Amy I don't expect people to show me empathy. Yes, you're right. Quitting ones job as member of the PMC and joining the working class isn't being an ally, it's becoming working class. Still if one thinks they can be an ally to the working class by maintaining their position in the hierarchy that's constructed to keep working class people in check, they're sadly mistaken. I suppose if they, like Engels (a capitalist) were to devote everything they have to destroying the social order which brought them their wealth, then perhaps they could be considered an ally. I do not see someone who felt the need to ask "how can I be an ally to workers" having that kind of awareness. My comment was not meant to be cruel, it was meant to illustrate the material differences between maintaining ones position in the superstructure and being a member of the working class or its vanguard. If they are willing to use their position to undermine the current social order, cool... I guess they could call themselves an ally. To imply someone is incapable of learning a new skill as a worker, or that workers are only people in overalls who strictly performs manual labor, demonstrates a insufficient understanding of what constitutes the working class. And enlighten me where empathy for class enemies has ever benefited the working class? Did it help Mandela and post apartheid South Africa when they forgave and sought reconciliation with the perpetrators of their oppression? Did it help the former slaves in America during Reconstruction? Did it help black Americans during the Civil Rights movement? Did it help workers in northern England when Thatcher destroyed the lives of miners and their families? Did it help the the Jewish people in Russia during pogroms? Has it helped Palestinians recover their land? Has it brought justice to the descendants of American Indians/Native Americans? Has it healed the colonial wounds inflicted upon every continent touched by the descendants of Europe? Did it free those same descendants of Europe from butchering each other in both World Wars? Has it ever helped any oppressed minority or any identity of working people in their fight against oppression? No, it most certainly has not. Don't expect me to show empathy to people who think some vague and incomplete liberal notion of solidarity is going to absolve them of their contributions to keeping working people the world over in perpetual bondage to capital.
@@GumbarLimbits Within capitalism, the class itself is the problem, it is meant to maintain and add needless complexity to a system meant to keep workers down. The goal would be to even out the disparity between those all different classes so that PMCs don't essentially act as guard dogs, keeping the workers from interacting with and influencing executives. I'm not necessarily saying the people themselves are bad, but the jobs they have have been turned into something that helps keep down the working class.
One of many weaknesses in LIu's whole approach which centers largely on professors and academics is that college professors are now well over 75% adjuncts, many without union representation, with no job security, hired semester to semester, if at all, and who have all manner of unpaid work foisted upon them. They may not even earn what is considered a living wage, which is a low bar. Just to say "they don't use their bodies" isn't the same as saying they're not precarious, exploited, but also important is that in the modern "neoliberal" University/college they generate value as service workers for capitalists, so their relationship to capitalists is inherently confrontational. I would be down for a critique of the lack of class organizing among PMC, but not without the material background of the decades of class war that beat the idea that professors might organize along class lines out of their heads. You'd have to analyze the corporate capture of education itself, the decline of unions, etc. which Liu sometimes does, but in general her Virtue Hoarders book is exactly the kind of shoot from the hip posturing, as when she often goes on about her "inner truck driver" on social media, that attacks academics as a selfish, out of touch elite, rather than in solidarity. If you're going to attack the PMC for not having class consciousness, one might expect a similar approach to workers in general, only about 10.3 percent of whom are in unions. Interestingly, the public sector (heavily PMC type jobs) is at 33 percent unionization whereas private sector workers are at 6.1 percent. Teachers unions, those god damned PMC scolds, have been extremely active and extremely connected to their surrounding communities, as in the working class. But if you examine Liu's anti-PMC/anti-woke millieu, it's all Spiked, Aufhebungabunga, Amber/Chapo/Jacobin type class reductionist type stuff, and I say that as a class struggle communist. This is a far cry even from the Ehrenreichs or scholars like Ellen Meiksins Wood. Anyway I'm sure this comment will be ridiculed or removed so I did my bit. Show less
yes, for all the anti-IDPol ness, there's a tendency to put things into boxes that need further analysis. Liu is obviously charismatic and effective for interviews such as this one - this is a symptom of the fundamental bent that US analysts (even the most well meaning ones who critique) have for IDPolling things into capsules to sell easily.
Wow, talk about them standing in the way of progress! I've seen two people FIRED from my company because they pushed for changes that would improve and streamline processes. The PMC hated that so much they literally fired the people after making their work life a living hell for months. The PMC literally dug in and stated that "there are reasons why we do things the way we do," based on circumstances from 15-20 years ago. Total idiots. The people who were fired moved on to employers who WELCOMED their ideas, enthusiasm, and initiative.
Would be willing to bet that these PMC folks were doing the bidding of their superiors, or were at the very least doing what they thought would please their superiors and, ultimately, the employer. I do not think it's necessarily a question of intelligence.
In principle though if competition was working these shitty decisions would have consequences to the profit margins of the company. Maybe all these companies have to keep the boss's family employed, so they need inefficiency?
What I find fascinating is how the composition of what constitutes a PMC differ from country to country, but also how the management class ultimately share many of the same functions and dysfunctions across countries and across industries. Here in Europe, what could be called PMC is a bit more educationally diverse, at least in some fields of work. There are certain opportunities for blue-collar workers to work their way up into management, like elderly nurses working their way up the ranks to become the care manager of the facility. It's quite fascinating how readily these people betray their own working-class origins as soon as they get to wear that white collar at work. (I work in elderly care as part of the lumpen-academia, i.e. I'm a social worker and in day-to-day operations I'm expected to shift seamlessly between blue-collar and white-collar work.) The management at my workplace do exactly what you describe: They aggressively shut out any and all information that could even remotely contribute to any management decision. This applies even when shutting out that information could mean endangering the safety of the residents. All information, any thought which the care and assistance workers might bring to the table is discarded unheard by our management, with no questions asked and all input briskly brushed aside. It's impossible.
I never look down on the working class. I've been in the working class. I don't look down upon the ignorant. I embrace my own ignorance as an opportunity to learn. I disdain the willfully ignorant, however. They endager us all.
This is by design. They hold onto "middle power" and do not give up that power. This is the same as the elite class but there are orders of magnitude more people in "middle management" than in the 1%.
Yeah, the TRUE power players give the middle management scraps and say “better keep an eye on that, the POORS are gonna try to take it from you” and that’s more than enough to keep everyone below them in line. Divide and conquer.
@@mortimersnerdishere I think they do realize it, but what choice do they have? If they don't "keep the poors in line," they will be fired. What should they do? Become one of the "poors? "Become an "upper?"
I'm a light railroad worker, and my back will be destroyed in 10 years even with careful technique. I really hope we have single payer healthcare by the time I need a brace to walk around.
What do you need a single payer for? Its chock full of managerial elite weildng their bureaucracy . Both canadians and Brits complain about their care, especially waiting time and rationing. So what happened is these managerial elites propaganda has worked on you so they can continue and expand their own position, their bureaucracy.
This is why I work at a credit union instead of a bank. If I am going to be a part of the PMC, I may as well act as a stop-gap on capitalist exploitation.
The "Professional Managerial Class" ARE working class. They survive by selling their labor, they just get a better deal than other kinds of working class. Because they are getting a better deal that means that in most cases they support the status quo even if those who are worse off do not. That is one of the core ideas of Karl Marx, a person only abandons the status quo when their material conditions are pretty bad. Though Marx didn't quite realize that the real question is not about your relationship to the means of production, it is just "How is capitalism working for you right now?" If you are suffering (or believe things are about to get a lot worse) you will want change, if things are okay you will not want change that desperately. (Of course what kind of change depends on your worldview, of which Marxism is just one.)
The PMC, while working class, are often stuck in a position of being working class and managing working class people, while being made to hand down decisions from the owner class. I have a really good manager, and I don't really envy how much she has to fight for good pay and working conditions for us. The other side of the coin is that they have to be the bad guy for handing down mandates. Really sucks if you have integrity, so most PMC don't.
i worked mostly hourly jobs in my adult life and after 2016 i went and finished my UG and then in 2019 got one of the white collar jobs and hoooweee the smugness that people hang on to because they get to leave at 4:00 sometimes it's unbearable. I suggested to my colleagues that we should all share our salaries so we can find out who is getting paid and who is getting screwed (we were all getting screwed and some of us were getting screwed a little less) and basically everyone declined. I found out later that I made over the max for that position and made the most on the team. and i was the one seeking solidarity? it's so weird how easily people will take a salary over a wage just so they can speak down to people at a register.
I don't really see PMC as an analytically sound class distinction. It's really more of an artificial amalgamation of several distinct strata within separate classes, with their own different relations to the MOP, their own different and cometimes contradictory class interests, and this recent trend of trying to lump them together i think has been a detriment to a lot of leftists' social analysis of the current period.
In the clip she repeatedly says that PMCs see themselves as separate from the working class...it sounds like that is the defining feature. She even acknowledges that the relationship to the MOP is essentially the same, that they are a striation of working. So the reason it is important is precisely because they are working class but they don't recognize it. There is a real difference in terms of what kind of work they do, but they are definitely still a subset of working class.
@@MrQuantumInc There are always intra-class strata or sectors in which some of its members may, for various resions, view themselves subjectively as qualitatively different from other segments. This is nothing new, and has been well described for a century and a half, with some modest updates from time to time, but this observation doesn't really add much to our analysis of class dynamics at the present moment. Furthermore, i would assert that this subjective sense of distinction on the part of the so-called "PMC" is not nearly so hegemonic as she makes it out to be, nor is it unique to the PMC, there are strata of the blue collar working class who make this subjective distinction, and there are petty bourgeoisie who regard themselves as working class, and other contradictions. Again, this is nothing new, and while analyzing its causes can sometimes be helpful, the way it's framed in the PMC discourse is, i think, unhelpful, and only muddles our analysis. Also, as I said in my OC, what she, and others, define or describe as PMC are not all working class, but, again are a mashing together of a number of different strata from different classes, including various strata of white collar working class, petty bourgeoisie, and even what might be considered a true third middle class of managers, executives, administrators, bureaucrats, etc., that is, those who are largely not engaged in actual socially valuable production, but who neither own the means of production, but instead manage and direct production and enforce class relations on behalf of capital. Really the only throughline, it seems is having some amount and/or type of higher education, but I dont think that really tells us as much as is claimed about the objective relations to the mode of production or class dynamics. An ER resident is not the same as a doctor who is a department head or who sits on the board of a hospital, and is not the same as a doctor who owns their own private practice. A code monkey is not the same as a software project director. A teacher is not the same as a principal or other school administrator. These different strata and classes that are lumped into "PMC" all have different relations to the means of production, different roles, different labor relations, and while some may develop subjective intra-class prejudices and antagonisms, they will objectively face different imperatives and incentive structures, which has the potential to induce different behaviors and attitudes.
I don’t know if I agree with the differentiation between blue and white collar work as inherent class stratifications in 2022. Lots of white collar work can often be mentally and even physically harmful, and certainly equally exploitative and abusive from a labor/management perspective. Also, lots of white collar work is extremely low paying.
And although it is not physically intensive, administrators do have to take on more hours, worry about the more finer aspects of managerial work, something which is why they either stay at the office after dark or take their work home with them, whereas your regular 9 to 5 employee can go home, hang up their feet and do whatever they want without stress in their off time.
This reminds me of any of the books I've read by Anand Giridharadas or Thomas frank about the "Innovation and Scholar "class who have so much in common with the Far right but think they care about working and poor people. Robert Reich talked about getting into the Clinton administration and it was jam packed with this types of folks and the on to Geithner and Summers later on. They all go to school together and just cant see anybody like them as "evil or corrupt".
Working class manager and Progressive here. Like most of my contemporaries, I do what I'm told or I get fired and I'm just tryingto get by. This is elitist tripe.
Where would degreed, licensed teachers fit into this class structure? Seems to me that the PMC is ill defined... if you're a teacher in America it is almost certainly the case that in the vast majority of schools, you clearly are unpaid and overworked but by this professor's definition you're still a PMC getting in the way of the worker solidarity required to change capitalism. The description to this video says, "PMCs are liberal white colloar workers who ensure that the status quo remains the same" but surely that is what Republicans and Corporate Democrats are in general regardless of whether they are white-collar, blue-collar, rich, middle class, poor, of a certain religion, ethnicity, or race. Don't tell me corporate dems don't come in many stripes and colors, while of course Republicans are almost all white, Christians they still attract people who aren't. This is especially relevant because there are white-collar workers who are fighting for change, especially teachers who have relevantly organized some of the biggest strikes in recent years within and without the US. I don't think this definition of PMC can explain the diversity of political leanings within the PMC, so it is a bad term or label. Others commenters here have pointed out as much.
I've been telling people this for decades. The uppers create this toxic atmosphere, I've seen it in live action at several large companies. Machine fixers making 100K+/yr and their suoervisors above them stuck at $60K
@@mandatoryhelicopterrides4596 Joined UA-cam Apr 17, 2022. Mandatory Helicopter rides again and again with his switcheroo account "Let's go Brandon" and "All progressives are child groomers ". Trolly mc troll must troll with baby brained account. Sad:(
There is a difference between economic class and social class. A social class might be very influenced , or affected by, an economic class. In other words, there's the lower class, and then the worker class, in some places, a peasant class. They might all be seen as in the lower class, but the dynamics of social and economic influences should be made distinct when extrapolating.
The PMC is like much of Congress and their buffer role with the donor class (oligarchs) and the citizenry. You also see it in states with no rent control. They have their own sub managerial class that runs interference for the landlords.
You definitely can’t be rich, famous and politically radical at the same time and there is zero exception to that rule historically! According to Frantz Fanon, “In colonial countries only the peasantry is revolutionary,” since “it has nothing to lose and everything to gain” and, unlike bourgeois leaders, brooks “no compromise, no possibility of concession.”
Maybe I’m just not familiar enough with Liu’s stuff, but it seems like there are people missing that they specifically prefaced the entire conversation by saying there are striations within the PMC and, even more specifically, university level academics. Like, it seems the critique is on a very specific group within the PMC that is the most influential within our current political climate, and who’s interests are going to align more with that tippy top group of people in society, and it’s not one of judgement? At least in this interview, Liu seemed to repeatedly stress that the whole purity kink seen in a lot of PMC libs is not a productive way to look at politics and class struggle. I think it really fits within the message of what Sam and MR have been harping on for the entirety of the show’s history in that politics is a matter of strategy and not pure ideology, and that to effectively implement your ideology you have to understand class relationships.
I’m an attorney and my lower back is killing me! I routinely fail to get the sleep my body needs and it’s hard to find time to eat and exercise right. My ass I don’t use my body in my work.
I believe in Socialism AND Capitalism. And, I firmly believe they can and should coexist together to form a “Fair” market economy rather than the mythical “Free” market economy.
Then you don't really understand what socialism and capitalism are. Capitalism is when people are able to acquire ownership of means of production that they don't use, and socialism is when workers own anything they are working on rather than allowing the wealthy to suck up the means of production and live a life of luxury without working. These two things are opposites, you cannot have both at once. If people are still able to gather capital and "earn" money without working, then it's not socialism.
@@Junebug89 No, you do not understand that neither socialism nor capitalism exist anywhere in the world and that all nations are mixes of socioeconomic policies. I believe capitalistic ideas have there place in society to promote competition and advance ideas through innovation, but certain industries, such as healthcare, protection, judiciary, etc. should NEVER be subject to market influence. No matter what system, corruption is the leading factor that leads to negative outcomes and abuse of power should be considered the most egregious crime against society.
@@seanpatrick1243 lmao please provide a definition of both Capitalism and socialism, because you’re argument here is really confused. What you’re actually arguing for is called “social democracy,” which is still capitalism, not socialism. Also competition between firms is inherently wasteful and inefficient and should not be encouraged, and capitalism does not promote innovation in any meaningful way.
Thank you for this. The PMC are doing the bidding of the employers, just like the direct labor who make the products/provide the service (amazon delivery drivers, e.g.). The difference is that the PMC are paid out of the surplus of gross profit (sales - cost of goods sold). In fact, conflict between the direct labor and indirect labor (PMC) benefits employers, as opposed to directing the anger directly at the employers. I do want to push back some on your notion that the PMC stands in the way of progress, in this way: their job is to be the representative of employers against employees. They paid a TON of money (and are still in debt) to get these high paying jobs that society told them would give them the American Dream. They are in the way, no doubt, but what do you suggest they do to not be in the way? Go unemployed? Take low paying direct labor jobs? Start their own business and get crushed by corporate America? Seems to me the only thing they can do is do the employers' bidding at work, then secretly go against them outside of work; i.e. support Socialism in the voting booth and in the community while supporting Capitalism while at work.
@@stevesharik331 They are discourse managers of the working class canceling anyone who dissents all the while shilling for corporations and their products. They are deeply invested in youtube being a marketing & add revenue tool.
Status seekers and Resume Padders.. Worst bosses ever. Literal Rules because they weren't weren't taught to socialize they are minions . Tgey don't appreciate hard workers
Or, "How Capitalism Successfully Uses Progressivism to Continue Labors Subordination to Capital." Or, "How Capitalism Mimics The Success of Fascism In Adopting and Defanging Left Rhetoric In Its Quest to Build A World Without Without Opposition" Or, "How A Country With A Left Devoid of Theory and Historical Materialism Continues to Succeed In Maintaining the Status Quo."
I like this conversation but she needs to have a better definition of pmc v working class. There's plenty of chronic damage done to the body by sitting and doing what would seem as simple light labor work like typing. I'm a manual therapist that sees people from the pmc that have far greater back, neck and hand pain issues than some labor class. Overall though I understand her meaning and I probably sound like I'm splitting hairs but when it comes to physical damage done to the body, pmc folk aren't free from harm.
Nice chat. Nothing revolutionary but it's always good to reiterate the relationships between various striations of the working class. However, she appears to have a weird understanding of the role of identity and the construction of identity in political discourse. It also seems like she implied that Bernie Sanders was a socialist at the end, though I could be mistaken-I certainly hope I am.
When the vast majority of people say "socialist" they include mixed economies. Compared to what USA politics is usually Bernie Sanders was and is extremely left wing. That is enough for the use of the word "socialist" to be valid. It is how people out in the real world use the word "socialist". It is good to read theory, but those books were written a long time ago and are thus out of touch, meaning that the theory is sometimes incorrect. Updating theory means changing it which means pointing out the ways old theory is wrong. Policing how people use language based on theory written decades ago is counter revolutionary.
EVs also needlessly destroy the environment through resource mining,manufacturing processes&going to landfill in mass droves. So much urban space is squandered on parking&other paved over autocentric wastes.They perpetuate urban sprawl&cities that aren’t navigable as a pedestrian or bicyclist&are inhospitable to humanity.EVs add to traffic congestion.Putting the financial burden of transportation inefficiently on the back of the individual is regressive&hasn’t been the norm for even 80 years.We need to invest in rail that’s properly implemented as it is overseas.We’re suffering from decades of trickle down economic austerity disenfranchisement&a lot of marginalization(eg Robert Moses’s racist redlining urban renewal)is through divestment of public works/infrastructure,utilities&programs to help the American people.Commodification of societal needs&normalization of rampant consumerism for privatized profits is what put us in this mess.National Transcontinental High Speed Rail should integrate seamlessly w/commuter rail networks so it can function as one cohesive system&this will convert flyover country back into a thriving heartland which will reduce clustering on the coasts.Similarly, wholly integrated circuits of interurban commuter rail routes blended with light rail lines,streetcar grids&trolleys prevent people from having to live on top of each other in city centers in order to have quick access to work&local economies downtown.Our roadways are overcrowded&no amount of adding lanes helps since it causes induced demand that inevitably grinds traffic to a halt at snags&bottlenecks down the road.We can rebuild cherished structural heirlooms of civic pride destroyed by financial&environmental disaster on space reclaimed from cars to serve social capital&green initiatives.We can resurrect lost local landmarks with green technologies such as hempcrete.
The "coordinator class" as defined by Michael Albert (Participatory Economics). Heads up - this class exists not only in work and wider society but in movements themselves who from my long experience in big and small organizations work for the survival of the orgs themselves at all cost at the expense of the stated aims of the orgs...and the unnamed activists on the ground doing most of the work. Herein in my view lies very much of the failures of popular movements over the last half century.
I would agree that this segment of the population rarely walks the walk of their principles. But I also want to point out that it is possible to not vote for Bernie just because you think he would make a bad POTUS
@@obamas65khotdog54 Hmm, that's not what I took away from the video. Progressivism is more about the working class in general. The professional managerial level is what's holding us back on a lot of levels. I believe you may be a troll trying to divide the left.
@@lethewaters The suits put in the time to get an college education to learn how to manage and operate a business, whereas ones in coveralls are unskilled labor who haven't invested their time and money into bettering themselves to deserve a position of greater compensation.
@@barbiquearea Yea, the managerial class have invested their time, which we as temporal creatures, only have so much of. Blue collar workers just invest their blood, and joints.
@@lethewaters So are you suggesting that we should pay them the same? Maybe it is more labor intensive to be a grunt worker in a company, but do you think they have a harder job than their bosses who have to deal with payroll, targeted goals, company expenses and so on? Maybe we should just let the lower level employees, some of whom probably don't even know how to do fractions be the boss, because I really doubt they could do a better job, whereas the bosses might have a harder time working in their shoes as its not something they are used to, but their jobs are not rocket science.
Internet schlubs just can't stand the fact that people who worked hard to learn something might have a better idea of how things actually work than they do.
The pawns are always sacrificed, their lives are inconsequential to the king and his bosses. The king learns through the pawns suffering. Suffer the learning, the boss keeps on earning more for ever deepening ignorance. Go capitalism!!
@Jebus Hypocristos The management apparatus as a whole has a different concern than the workers on the line. Within the apparatus are differing levels of responsibility. The point being that expertise is important. The line worker who is expert at running a lathe and the upper-level manager running an entire plant are both valuable for the organization. Professionalization began in the late 1800's precisely because no one person was able to have all the expertise necessary to run a modern, complex organization. Some functions required much more intensive education than others.
The interests of the professional managerial class will always share their interests with the upper class. The upper executive class leans into this, to create tension between the PMC and workers, and in doing so create an essential buffer between executives and workers to keep everyone divided and segmented.
I am in the PMC because I have an advanced degree and a job to match. Outside of quitting my job (because I don't want to be poor, the financial situation is already not great), how can I be a PMC good boy (i.e. an ally of workers, not the bourgeoisie)?
You can't be. Struggle is the only way. How would you propose being a PMC and perpetuating the class divide through your very existence as a PMC and somehow be capable of being an "ally" to workers? The only PMC's the working class needs are PMCs ready to recognize their position for what it is, quit, and throw in their lot with the workers. If you're ready to do that, cool... if not, your not an ally, and you never will be.
@@sthayer2667 quitting your job isn’t “being an ally” it’s becoming a member of the working class. Maybe you need to learn the definition. Some people aren’t physically able to do manual labor, some aren’t skilled, some need the benefits that come with their job so they don’t die in our shtty healthcare system. Most probably don’t even like their jobs and only do them because of some combination of the aforementioned reasons.
Before you run your mouth about other peoples lives and situations and how shtty they are for making the choices they made, maybe try attempting some small amount of empathy- you know, that thing you expect everyone else to show you.
@Amy I don't expect people to show me empathy. Yes, you're right. Quitting ones job as member of the PMC and joining the working class isn't being an ally, it's becoming working class. Still if one thinks they can be an ally to the working class by maintaining their position in the hierarchy that's constructed to keep working class people in check, they're sadly mistaken. I suppose if they, like Engels (a capitalist) were to devote everything they have to destroying the social order which brought them their wealth, then perhaps they could be considered an ally. I do not see someone who felt the need to ask "how can I be an ally to workers" having that kind of awareness. My comment was not meant to be cruel, it was meant to illustrate the material differences between maintaining ones position in the superstructure and being a member of the working class or its vanguard.
If they are willing to use their position to undermine the current social order, cool... I guess they could call themselves an ally.
To imply someone is incapable of learning a new skill as a worker, or that workers are only people in overalls who strictly performs manual labor, demonstrates a insufficient understanding of what constitutes the working class.
And enlighten me where empathy for class enemies has ever benefited the working class? Did it help Mandela and post apartheid South Africa when they forgave and sought reconciliation with the perpetrators of their oppression? Did it help the former slaves in America during Reconstruction? Did it help black Americans during the Civil Rights movement? Did it help workers in northern England when Thatcher destroyed the lives of miners and their families? Did it help the the Jewish people in Russia during pogroms? Has it helped Palestinians recover their land? Has it brought justice to the descendants of American Indians/Native Americans? Has it healed the colonial wounds inflicted upon every continent touched by the descendants of Europe? Did it free those same descendants of Europe from butchering each other in both World Wars? Has it ever helped any oppressed minority or any identity of working people in their fight against oppression? No, it most certainly has not. Don't expect me to show empathy to people who think some vague and incomplete liberal notion of solidarity is going to absolve them of their contributions to keeping working people the world over in perpetual bondage to capital.
@@GumbarLimbits Within capitalism, the class itself is the problem, it is meant to maintain and add needless complexity to a system meant to keep workers down. The goal would be to even out the disparity between those all different classes so that PMCs don't essentially act as guard dogs, keeping the workers from interacting with and influencing executives. I'm not necessarily saying the people themselves are bad, but the jobs they have have been turned into something that helps keep down the working class.
One of many weaknesses in LIu's whole approach which centers largely on professors and academics is that college professors are now well over 75% adjuncts, many without union representation, with no job security, hired semester to semester, if at all, and who have all manner of unpaid work foisted upon them. They may not even earn what is considered a living wage, which is a low bar. Just to say "they don't use their bodies" isn't the same as saying they're not precarious, exploited, but also important is that in the modern "neoliberal" University/college they generate value as service workers for capitalists, so their relationship to capitalists is inherently confrontational. I would be down for a critique of the lack of class organizing among PMC, but not without the material background of the decades of class war that beat the idea that professors might organize along class lines out of their heads. You'd have to analyze the corporate capture of education itself, the decline of unions, etc. which Liu sometimes does, but in general her Virtue Hoarders book is exactly the kind of shoot from the hip posturing, as when she often goes on about her "inner truck driver" on social media, that attacks academics as a selfish, out of touch elite, rather than in solidarity. If you're going to attack the PMC for not having class consciousness, one might expect a similar approach to workers in general, only about 10.3 percent of whom are in unions. Interestingly, the public sector (heavily PMC type jobs) is at 33 percent unionization whereas private sector workers are at 6.1 percent. Teachers unions, those god damned PMC scolds, have been extremely active and extremely connected to their surrounding communities, as in the working class.
But if you examine Liu's anti-PMC/anti-woke millieu, it's all Spiked, Aufhebungabunga, Amber/Chapo/Jacobin type class reductionist type stuff, and I say that as a class struggle communist. This is a far cry even from the Ehrenreichs or scholars like Ellen Meiksins Wood. Anyway I'm sure this comment will be ridiculed or removed so I did my bit.
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No ones reading this
I read it 😅
I think you make a valid point🎉
@@maxpower8429 why would you reveal you're a no one.
yes, for all the anti-IDPol ness, there's a tendency to put things into boxes that need further analysis. Liu is obviously charismatic and effective for interviews such as this one - this is a symptom of the fundamental bent that US analysts (even the most well meaning ones who critique) have for IDPolling things into capsules to sell easily.
Adjuncts (without tenure) aspire to the be in the upper class. They are the types to see themselves above those who didn't get PhDs.
Wow, talk about them standing in the way of progress! I've seen two people FIRED from my company because they pushed for changes that would improve and streamline processes. The PMC hated that so much they literally fired the people after making their work life a living hell for months. The PMC literally dug in and stated that "there are reasons why we do things the way we do," based on circumstances from 15-20 years ago. Total idiots. The people who were fired moved on to employers who WELCOMED their ideas, enthusiasm, and initiative.
Would be willing to bet that these PMC folks were doing the bidding of their superiors, or were at the very least doing what they thought would please their superiors and, ultimately, the employer. I do not think it's necessarily a question of intelligence.
Isn't it great that capitalism is a totalitarian system when it comes to the workplace? I love it.
In principle though if competition was working these shitty decisions would have consequences to the profit margins of the company. Maybe all these companies have to keep the boss's family employed, so they need inefficiency?
What I find fascinating is how the composition of what constitutes a PMC differ from country to country, but also how the management class ultimately share many of the same functions and dysfunctions across countries and across industries.
Here in Europe, what could be called PMC is a bit more educationally diverse, at least in some fields of work. There are certain opportunities for blue-collar workers to work their way up into management, like elderly nurses working their way up the ranks to become the care manager of the facility. It's quite fascinating how readily these people betray their own working-class origins as soon as they get to wear that white collar at work. (I work in elderly care as part of the lumpen-academia, i.e. I'm a social worker and in day-to-day operations I'm expected to shift seamlessly between blue-collar and white-collar work.)
The management at my workplace do exactly what you describe: They aggressively shut out any and all information that could even remotely contribute to any management decision. This applies even when shutting out that information could mean endangering the safety of the residents. All information, any thought which the care and assistance workers might bring to the table is discarded unheard by our management, with no questions asked and all input briskly brushed aside. It's impossible.
I never look down on the working class. I've been in the working class.
I don't look down upon the ignorant.
I embrace my own ignorance as an opportunity to learn.
I disdain the willfully ignorant, however.
They endager us all.
Yes, and The Majority Report is the PMC
This is by design. They hold onto "middle power" and do not give up that power. This is the same as the elite class but there are orders of magnitude more people in "middle management" than in the 1%.
Yeah, the TRUE power players give the middle management scraps and say “better keep an eye on that, the POORS are gonna try to take it from you” and that’s more than enough to keep everyone below them in line. Divide and conquer.
The "uppers" use those "middles" to perform their dirty work and keep the "poors" in line. The middle just doesn't realize they are just that, tools
@@mortimersnerdishere yep, they're also viewed as expendable by upper management, I assume as a way to keep pressure and leverage over their jobs.
@@mortimersnerdishere I think they do realize it, but what choice do they have? If they don't "keep the poors in line," they will be fired. What should they do? Become one of the "poors? "Become an "upper?"
You're not 'managerial' if you don't manage other people, no matter what color your collar is.
I'm a light railroad worker, and my back will be destroyed in 10 years even with careful technique. I really hope we have single payer healthcare by the time I need a brace to walk around.
Nah, Republiscummies will just blame you saying that you should have thought about every possible permutation of your life in the womb.
I'm not too confident in that. Fingers crossed though.
What do you need a single payer for? Its chock full of managerial elite weildng their bureaucracy . Both canadians and Brits complain about their care, especially waiting time and rationing. So what happened is these managerial elites propaganda has worked on you so they can continue and expand their own position, their bureaucracy.
This is why I work at a credit union instead of a bank. If I am going to be a part of the PMC, I may as well act as a stop-gap on capitalist exploitation.
The PMC is the left.
The "Professional Managerial Class" ARE working class. They survive by selling their labor, they just get a better deal than other kinds of working class. Because they are getting a better deal that means that in most cases they support the status quo even if those who are worse off do not. That is one of the core ideas of Karl Marx, a person only abandons the status quo when their material conditions are pretty bad. Though Marx didn't quite realize that the real question is not about your relationship to the means of production, it is just "How is capitalism working for you right now?" If you are suffering (or believe things are about to get a lot worse) you will want change, if things are okay you will not want change that desperately. (Of course what kind of change depends on your worldview, of which Marxism is just one.)
The PMC, while working class, are often stuck in a position of being working class and managing working class people, while being made to hand down decisions from the owner class. I have a really good manager, and I don't really envy how much she has to fight for good pay and working conditions for us. The other side of the coin is that they have to be the bad guy for handing down mandates. Really sucks if you have integrity, so most PMC don't.
They have a better deal because they’re smarter and work harder.
i worked mostly hourly jobs in my adult life and after 2016 i went and finished my UG and then in 2019 got one of the white collar jobs and hoooweee the smugness that people hang on to because they get to leave at 4:00 sometimes it's unbearable. I suggested to my colleagues that we should all share our salaries so we can find out who is getting paid and who is getting screwed (we were all getting screwed and some of us were getting screwed a little less) and basically everyone declined. I found out later that I made over the max for that position and made the most on the team. and i was the one seeking solidarity? it's so weird how easily people will take a salary over a wage just so they can speak down to people at a register.
Did you share your wages with the rest of your team?
I don't really see PMC as an analytically sound class distinction. It's really more of an artificial amalgamation of several distinct strata within separate classes, with their own different relations to the MOP, their own different and cometimes contradictory class interests, and this recent trend of trying to lump them together i think has been a detriment to a lot of leftists' social analysis of the current period.
In the clip she repeatedly says that PMCs see themselves as separate from the working class...it sounds like that is the defining feature. She even acknowledges that the relationship to the MOP is essentially the same, that they are a striation of working. So the reason it is important is precisely because they are working class but they don't recognize it. There is a real difference in terms of what kind of work they do, but they are definitely still a subset of working class.
@@MrQuantumInc There are always intra-class strata or sectors in which some of its members may, for various resions, view themselves subjectively as qualitatively different from other segments. This is nothing new, and has been well described for a century and a half, with some modest updates from time to time, but this observation doesn't really add much to our analysis of class dynamics at the present moment.
Furthermore, i would assert that this subjective sense of distinction on the part of the so-called "PMC" is not nearly so hegemonic as she makes it out to be, nor is it unique to the PMC, there are strata of the blue collar working class who make this subjective distinction, and there are petty bourgeoisie who regard themselves as working class, and other contradictions. Again, this is nothing new, and while analyzing its causes can sometimes be helpful, the way it's framed in the PMC discourse is, i think, unhelpful, and only muddles our analysis.
Also, as I said in my OC, what she, and others, define or describe as PMC are not all working class, but, again are a mashing together of a number of different strata from different classes, including various strata of white collar working class, petty bourgeoisie, and even what might be considered a true third middle class of managers, executives, administrators, bureaucrats, etc., that is, those who are largely not engaged in actual socially valuable production, but who neither own the means of production, but instead manage and direct production and enforce class relations on behalf of capital. Really the only throughline, it seems is having some amount and/or type of higher education, but I dont think that really tells us as much as is claimed about the objective relations to the mode of production or class dynamics.
An ER resident is not the same as a doctor who is a department head or who sits on the board of a hospital, and is not the same as a doctor who owns their own private practice. A code monkey is not the same as a software project director. A teacher is not the same as a principal or other school administrator. These different strata and classes that are lumped into "PMC" all have different relations to the means of production, different roles, different labor relations, and while some may develop subjective intra-class prejudices and antagonisms, they will objectively face different imperatives and incentive structures, which has the potential to induce different behaviors and attitudes.
I don’t know if I agree with the differentiation between blue and white collar work as inherent class stratifications in 2022. Lots of white collar work can often be mentally and even physically harmful, and certainly equally exploitative and abusive from a labor/management perspective. Also, lots of white collar work is extremely low paying.
And although it is not physically intensive, administrators do have to take on more hours, worry about the more finer aspects of managerial work, something which is why they either stay at the office after dark or take their work home with them, whereas your regular 9 to 5 employee can go home, hang up their feet and do whatever they want without stress in their off time.
Looks like someone hasn't worked a real job a day in their life!
Great interview. Excellent analysis.
This reminds me of any of the books I've read by Anand Giridharadas or Thomas frank about the "Innovation and Scholar "class who have so much in common with the Far right but think they care about working and poor people. Robert Reich talked about getting into the Clinton administration and it was jam packed with this types of folks and the on to Geithner and Summers later on. They all go to school together and just cant see anybody like them as "evil or corrupt".
Catherine Liu
Working class manager and Progressive here. Like most of my contemporaries, I do what I'm told or I get fired and I'm just tryingto get by. This is elitist tripe.
"no, no, no". Thank you for this!
Where would degreed, licensed teachers fit into this class structure? Seems to me that the PMC is ill defined... if you're a teacher in America it is almost certainly the case that in the vast majority of schools, you clearly are unpaid and overworked but by this professor's definition you're still a PMC getting in the way of the worker solidarity required to change capitalism.
The description to this video says, "PMCs are liberal white colloar workers who ensure that the status quo remains the same" but surely that is what Republicans and Corporate Democrats are in general regardless of whether they are white-collar, blue-collar, rich, middle class, poor, of a certain religion, ethnicity, or race. Don't tell me corporate dems don't come in many stripes and colors, while of course Republicans are almost all white, Christians they still attract people who aren't. This is especially relevant because there are white-collar workers who are fighting for change, especially teachers who have relevantly organized some of the biggest strikes in recent years within and without the US. I don't think this definition of PMC can explain the diversity of political leanings within the PMC, so it is a bad term or label. Others commenters here have pointed out as much.
I've been telling people this for decades. The uppers create this toxic atmosphere, I've seen it in live action at several large companies. Machine fixers making 100K+/yr and their suoervisors above them stuck at $60K
Machinists and welders deserve $250 per hour
@@mandatoryhelicopterrides4596 how about ten yr olds being forced to carry their rapists dead baby baby to term
@@mandatoryhelicopterrides4596 who’s “castrating minors”? 🤔
@@galedribble9535 literally you guys.
@@mandatoryhelicopterrides4596 Joined UA-cam Apr 17, 2022. Mandatory Helicopter rides again and again with his switcheroo account "Let's go Brandon" and "All progressives are child groomers ". Trolly mc troll must troll with baby brained account. Sad:(
There is a difference between economic class and social class. A social class might be very influenced , or affected by, an economic class. In other words, there's the lower class, and then the worker class, in some places, a peasant class. They might all be seen as in the lower class, but the dynamics of social and economic influences should be made distinct when extrapolating.
AMA is like the doctor's union.
Exactly! I've been saying that for years!
The PMC is like much of Congress and their buffer role with the donor class (oligarchs) and the citizenry. You also see it in states with no rent control. They have their own sub managerial class that runs interference for the landlords.
You definitely can’t be rich, famous and politically radical at the same time and there is zero exception to that rule historically!
According to Frantz Fanon, “In colonial countries only the peasantry is revolutionary,” since “it has nothing to lose and everything to gain” and, unlike bourgeois leaders, brooks “no compromise, no possibility of concession.”
Maybe I’m just not familiar enough with Liu’s stuff, but it seems like there are people missing that they specifically prefaced the entire conversation by saying there are striations within the PMC and, even more specifically, university level academics. Like, it seems the critique is on a very specific group within the PMC that is the most influential within our current political climate, and who’s interests are going to align more with that tippy top group of people in society, and it’s not one of judgement? At least in this interview, Liu seemed to repeatedly stress that the whole purity kink seen in a lot of PMC libs is not a productive way to look at politics and class struggle. I think it really fits within the message of what Sam and MR have been harping on for the entirety of the show’s history in that politics is a matter of strategy and not pure ideology, and that to effectively implement your ideology you have to understand class relationships.
Idk who the guest is (and would like more info please!), but she's HELLA based!
I always knew I hated these types.
I’m an attorney and my lower back is killing me! I routinely fail to get the sleep my body needs and it’s hard to find time to eat and exercise right. My ass I don’t use my body in my work.
Your the problem. Your back hurts from sitting? Lose some weight and quit complaining
Omg, I LOVE her!
Catherine: I am against the moral critique that people devolve to in america
also Catherine: try to keep that in your little leftist brains!!!
The petty bourgeoisie.
Yes.
Progressives.
@@obamas65khotdog54 321 hate comments on this channel . Time for you to get a job and a life.
close, but not quite
We have returned to the Gilded Age logic. The PMC's are always Nick Caraway gazing across the cove at Pembroke. Hoping to get invited --some day?
This guy's beard and hair is awesome.
It’s the gas station restroom over used / breaking down toilet brush look
@@joepollock7253 I was admiring the volume and depth of color.
I believe in Socialism AND Capitalism. And, I firmly believe they can and should coexist together to form a “Fair” market economy rather than the mythical “Free” market economy.
Then you don't really understand what socialism and capitalism are. Capitalism is when people are able to acquire ownership of means of production that they don't use, and socialism is when workers own anything they are working on rather than allowing the wealthy to suck up the means of production and live a life of luxury without working. These two things are opposites, you cannot have both at once. If people are still able to gather capital and "earn" money without working, then it's not socialism.
@@Junebug89
No, you do not understand that neither socialism nor capitalism exist anywhere in the world and that all nations are mixes of socioeconomic policies.
I believe capitalistic ideas have there place in society to promote competition and advance ideas through innovation, but certain industries, such as healthcare, protection, judiciary, etc. should NEVER be subject to market influence.
No matter what system, corruption is the leading factor that leads to negative outcomes and abuse of power should be considered the most egregious crime against society.
@@seanpatrick1243 lmao please provide a definition of both Capitalism and socialism, because you’re argument here is really confused. What you’re actually arguing for is called “social democracy,” which is still capitalism, not socialism.
Also competition between firms is inherently wasteful and inefficient and should not be encouraged, and capitalism does not promote innovation in any meaningful way.
@@yeehawdijohn7426
Please give me an example of a purely capitalist or purely socialist society in existence.
You can't, because none exist.
@@yeehawdijohn7426
I guess you're not laughing anymore.
Who is the guest?
PMC just sounds a little like the labor aristocracy Lenin talked about.
Thank you for this. The PMC are doing the bidding of the employers, just like the direct labor who make the products/provide the service (amazon delivery drivers, e.g.). The difference is that the PMC are paid out of the surplus of gross profit (sales - cost of goods sold). In fact, conflict between the direct labor and indirect labor (PMC) benefits employers, as opposed to directing the anger directly at the employers.
I do want to push back some on your notion that the PMC stands in the way of progress, in this way: their job is to be the representative of employers against employees. They paid a TON of money (and are still in debt) to get these high paying jobs that society told them would give them the American Dream. They are in the way, no doubt, but what do you suggest they do to not be in the way? Go unemployed? Take low paying direct labor jobs? Start their own business and get crushed by corporate America? Seems to me the only thing they can do is do the employers' bidding at work, then secretly go against them outside of work; i.e. support Socialism in the voting booth and in the community while supporting Capitalism while at work.
streamers & youtubers are PMC.
Not really. Who employs them? They generate their own revenue, and therefore own their own small business, a sole proprietary.
@@stevesharik331 They are discourse managers of the working class canceling anyone who dissents all the while shilling for corporations and their products. They are deeply invested in youtube being a marketing & add revenue tool.
Lmao
Tell us this woman’s name- she is bright and highly engaging! This oversight is very frustrating!
Catherine Liu 🙂
Status seekers and Resume Padders..
Worst bosses ever. Literal Rules because they weren't weren't taught to socialize they are minions .
Tgey don't appreciate hard workers
I’m glad this was brought up. No one really talks about this.
WTF are you on about... we have been talking about this for 2 years.
I like this lady
Shes right matt do yoga!
Or, "How Capitalism Successfully Uses Progressivism to Continue Labors Subordination to Capital." Or, "How Capitalism Mimics The Success of Fascism In Adopting and Defanging Left Rhetoric In Its Quest to Build A World Without Without Opposition" Or, "How A Country With A Left Devoid of Theory and Historical Materialism Continues to Succeed In Maintaining the Status Quo."
It's almost as if this entire 'PMC' discussion is anti-marxist, and counterproductive to the interests of the working class
I like this conversation but she needs to have a better definition of pmc v working class. There's plenty of chronic damage done to the body by sitting and doing what would seem as simple light labor work like typing. I'm a manual therapist that sees people from the pmc that have far greater back, neck and hand pain issues than some labor class. Overall though I understand her meaning and I probably sound like I'm splitting hairs but when it comes to physical damage done to the body, pmc folk aren't free from harm.
Office work is physically demanding'
That'll do me.
Who is She? I am in love...with her views....
Catherine Liu 🙂
Nice chat. Nothing revolutionary but it's always good to reiterate the relationships between various striations of the working class.
However, she appears to have a weird understanding of the role of identity and the construction of identity in political discourse. It also seems like she implied that Bernie Sanders was a socialist at the end, though I could be mistaken-I certainly hope I am.
When the vast majority of people say "socialist" they include mixed economies. Compared to what USA politics is usually Bernie Sanders was and is extremely left wing. That is enough for the use of the word "socialist" to be valid. It is how people out in the real world use the word "socialist". It is good to read theory, but those books were written a long time ago and are thus out of touch, meaning that the theory is sometimes incorrect. Updating theory means changing it which means pointing out the ways old theory is wrong.
Policing how people use language based on theory written decades ago is counter revolutionary.
EVs also needlessly destroy the environment through resource mining,manufacturing processes&going to landfill in mass droves. So much urban space is squandered on parking&other paved over autocentric wastes.They perpetuate urban sprawl&cities that aren’t navigable as a pedestrian or bicyclist&are inhospitable to humanity.EVs add to traffic congestion.Putting the financial burden of transportation inefficiently on the back of the individual is regressive&hasn’t been the norm for even 80 years.We need to invest in rail that’s properly implemented as it is overseas.We’re suffering from decades of trickle down economic austerity disenfranchisement&a lot of marginalization(eg Robert Moses’s racist redlining urban renewal)is through divestment of public works/infrastructure,utilities&programs to help the American people.Commodification of societal needs&normalization of rampant consumerism for privatized profits is what put us in this mess.National Transcontinental High Speed Rail should integrate seamlessly w/commuter rail networks so it can function as one cohesive system&this will convert flyover country back into a thriving heartland which will reduce clustering on the coasts.Similarly, wholly integrated circuits of interurban commuter rail routes blended with light rail lines,streetcar grids&trolleys prevent people from having to live on top of each other in city centers in order to have quick access to work&local economies downtown.Our roadways are overcrowded&no amount of adding lanes helps since it causes induced demand that inevitably grinds traffic to a halt at snags&bottlenecks down the road.We can rebuild cherished structural heirlooms of civic pride destroyed by financial&environmental disaster on space reclaimed from cars to serve social capital&green initiatives.We can resurrect lost local landmarks with green technologies such as hempcrete.
I believe this is very true. Its a trite but ill say they are the new brahmin class
Oh man so turns out it's way worse than you might have thought..
Is it wired that i think she’s cute?
Nah, authenticity is admirable. This auntie is hella based and definitely invited to dinner.
The "coordinator class" as defined by Michael Albert (Participatory Economics).
Heads up - this class exists not only in work and wider society but in movements themselves who from my long experience in big and small organizations work for the survival of the orgs themselves at all cost at the expense of the stated aims of the orgs...and the unnamed activists on the ground doing most of the work. Herein in my view lies very much of the failures of popular movements over the last half century.
I would agree that this segment of the population rarely walks the walk of their principles.
But I also want to point out that it is possible to not vote for Bernie just because you think he would make a bad POTUS
"you're not middle class. you're an embarrassed millionaire"
Trade workers have OSHA
What are you talking about?
@@mandatoryhelicopterrides4596 Assume much?
@@Spock_Rogers Progressivism is propped up by the professional managerial class.
@@obamas65khotdog54 Hmm, that's not what I took away from the video. Progressivism is more about the working class in general. The professional managerial level is what's holding us back on a lot of levels. I believe you may be a troll trying to divide the left.
@@Spock_Rogers10 out of the top 10 richest congressional districts... and 43 of the top 50... are represented by Democrats.
The lefts circular firing squad is really picking up pace 👌
"Try to keep this in your little leftist brains". I am loving this spitfire!
It's kind of ironic that this self-identifying member of the PMC has such disdain for working-class leftists who lack her analytical capacity.
blame the boomers... (and, it fits on a bumper sticker better!)
They're just meat in suits.
They're just meat in suits.
No, we are the meat in coveralls
No, they’re human being. Wtf?
@@lethewaters The suits put in the time to get an college education to learn how to manage and operate a business, whereas ones in coveralls are unskilled labor who haven't invested their time and money into bettering themselves to deserve a position of greater compensation.
@@barbiquearea Yea, the managerial class have invested their time, which we as temporal creatures, only have so much of.
Blue collar workers just invest their blood, and joints.
@@lethewaters So are you suggesting that we should pay them the same? Maybe it is more labor intensive to be a grunt worker in a company, but do you think they have a harder job than their bosses who have to deal with payroll, targeted goals, company expenses and so on? Maybe we should just let the lower level employees, some of whom probably don't even know how to do fractions be the boss, because I really doubt they could do a better job, whereas the bosses might have a harder time working in their shoes as its not something they are used to, but their jobs are not rocket science.
Internet schlubs just can't stand the fact that people who worked hard to learn something might have a better idea of how things actually work than they do.
Curious you think they work harder
The pawns are always sacrificed, their lives are inconsequential to the king and his bosses. The king learns through the pawns suffering. Suffer the learning, the boss keeps on earning more for ever deepening ignorance. Go capitalism!!
@Jebus Hypocristos About their piece of the job, not necessarily the whole process. Managers are focused on the macro-health of the organization.
@@luxstar5622 Spending years to learn something as opposed to skimming UA-cam videos?
Yes.
@Jebus Hypocristos The management apparatus as a whole has a different concern than the workers on the line.
Within the apparatus are differing levels of responsibility.
The point being that expertise is important.
The line worker who is expert at running a lathe and the upper-level manager running an entire plant are both valuable for the organization.
Professionalization began in the late 1800's precisely because no one person was able to have all the expertise necessary to run a modern, complex organization. Some functions required much more intensive education than others.