I was originally going to make a short video that talks about the new Lumix GH6 firmware 2.0, but somehow it turned into this much longer video that talks about the difference between ProRes RAW, ProRes 422 and H.265. Sorry there is a lot of talking in this video so it maybe a bit boring, but I hope some of you would find this video useful.
Hi Richard. That was an excellent run through the differences, with relevant examples that showed the differences clearly. Finding the best balance between file formats, codecs, file size, quality, NLE load, etc is a complex one, which puts a lot of pressure on correct equipment purchase before you buy a new camera. The last thing anyone wants to do is invest thousands into new cameras (and lenses) only to discover after a few months that the gear you bought isn't optimal to your workflow. Thank you for taking the time to produce this thorough and well presented comparisons, and you conclusions. As someone who does a lot of Greenscreen work, I really appreciated what you said about the Bayer sensor and 422 vs RAW. As a Lumix camera user and Apple computer user I found this video extremely helpful, as with your other Lumix camera review and comparison videos. Keep up the good work, I'm sure others are finding your content as helpful as I do.
After years of being obsessed with Raw/Logs it’s much much easier to mess something up than it is to let the camera do its thing especially for anything that’s not controlled. I wasted a good year or two of my life editing videos in the color tabs to now just simply shoot everything standard lol
GH5 user here. I use the 422 10 bit All-I (400 Mbps) mode for fiction projects, and 422 10 bit Long GOP (150 Mbps) for documentary projects. With a proxy workflow, both of those work perfectly fine for my needs. However, I find the Prores 422 HQ of the GH6 really tempting, since the master file deliverable is in that format. I’d rather not risk recording solely to an external recorder (too many points of risk, from loose cables to Hard drives getting corrupt, to bumping into stuff, maybe even destroying ports if it’s flimsy like Micro HDMI etc), so Prores RAW is a no go. It’s better to manage light using lighting, ND filters, polarisers, ISO and Aperture than shoot with poor exposure. Prores is more forgiving of temperature shift, so WB shouldn’t be an issue for basic changes
yes internal recording is a good safe option if you worry about external cable. I really wish GH6 has dual CFE card slots so you can record backup even when recording ProRes 422 internal
Your presentation was so well scripted snd densely packed. It really was very helpful and you have a very well honed review skill. No fluff or filler. Verrrry professional. Thanks again.
Just recently switched to ProRes workflow. Not going back lol. Even my wife's MacBook Air is absolutely crushing it. I also think ProRes has a huge advantage over H.265 (even All-I) whenever something is moving. Like when camera is moving through a room following someone, H.265 falls apart in my opinion. I'm actually having a lot of trouble with my drone because of this.
Can I ask if you mean ProRes RAW or ProRes 422? Currently trying to decide which workflow is best myself because as much as I would love the results of RAW, it takes up too much time to edit. One single clip of 30 seconds took about 20 minutes just to de-noise! Do you find a similar issue? Thanks in advance!
Just as a note towards the editing 422 10bit, Davinci resolve 18 free does not support it.the paid studio version does. I had to buy it when I changed to a FX3.
Many thanks. Just missed the link to the video about a more basic question about this topic. 10 bit or 8 bit? 4:2:2 or 4:2:0?, and then when 10 bit 4:2:2 is chosen, then this video fits perfectly. Regards!
Not enough love of your cooking analogy. Caused a brain montage of how codec/ internal recording corelates with cooking. Really helped me. You have your own thing going and I want to say keep it up! But if you were ever to cook a meal and film it at the same time to show the correlation of codec/ internal recording and seasoning/temperatures/all cooking practices, may smash through the brains of the internet and lead to a utopia of better footage and food.
Richard, you looks as mind person, could you clarify me, why panasonic packed extended v-gamut colorspace (v-log) into rec709 colorspace? You can check it in metadata. After that operation, v-log become typical profile as Standart/Natural etc with very specific curve, but rec709 has theoretical 9.97 stops of lights, that mean no matter what you choose: v-log, cined2/Standart (with contrast/saturation -5), you will get this 10 stops maximum. P.S. even sony/canon can choose rec709/bt2020 colorspace for their log profiles.
Hi Evgeniy , My understanding is that vlog footage is recorded in V-Gamut, which is a wider gamut than rec709. You will need to use a LUT to convert the V-Gamut footage to rec709. And when i compare ProRes RAW footage vs V-LOG/V-Gamut footage from the same camera, they do show virtually identical dynamic range and much bigger than what rec709 can capture. Can you please tell me how do you see it's recorded in rec709 space?
@@TheRealRichardWong You can check it in mediainfo or ffmpeg. The textbox of each videofile contains "v-gamut" data, but it is textbox. Original videostream in each file packed in h265 Main 10@L5.2 into bt709 colorspace
@@TheRealRichardWong some ppl told me, this "rec709" is also tag. So, file has real v-gamut colorspace, but tagged as rec709 : 99% of each non HDR log videos tagged as rec709.
I’m also having the same dilemma on whether to wait for the s5iix or not. My computer handles h.264 pretty good, but I want the highest quality I can get internal without going RAW. Either of y’all have suggestions between getting the s5ii now or waiting for the s5iix this Summer?
@@VisionOneCreatives you mean H.265 i suppose. Because S52 only shoots H.265 mostly. X shoots Prores 422 Lt I think because someone said its 800mb/s at 6k on ssd and its allintra
@@guardianlillebi8139 @RichardWong I meant h264 because that’s what my r6 shoots now and my computer handles it well in 1080p and 4k isn’t that bad. Asking because I like the s52/x for the more video centric features. If there’s a big difference in quality of the footage between h264/265 versus prores (all options being 10 bit 422), then I’d wait for the s52x. But if the only noticeable advantage is edit times then I might get the s52 now. I don’t do this for a living; it’s a side hustle so longer editing time spent isn’t a huge concern for me.
Hi Richard! Really useful review of the 2.0 gh6. I have two questions if u don't mind: - what do u recommend for cinematic filmmakers (no ninja): canon r6 (fullframe but ipb compressed 4k) vs gh6 (mft but prores) - no one ever make astro-nightlapse with gh6 on youtube. Is it a coincidence or this camera has some hidden-limitation for capturing milky-way?
R6 or GH6? I think it's not very easy to answer as i see both cameras has certain pros and cons. for the R6, the pros would be it's really good autofocus system, the full frame sensor advantage like high ISO, shallow DOF. for the GH6, it;s really impressive list of video features like all the additional tools, high quality output video formats, prores, unlimited recording and virtually doesn't overheat.. Also it would be a smaller setup and it's IBIS is great too. So i think it really depends on what you need the most. i think for most people it would be whether GH6's autofocus is good enough for you or not. For me, i think GH6's autofocus while not perfect is good enough for me, I use that for most of my recent youtube videos and a bit of other work too, and i rarely have any issues with it. But if you need to shoot someone running towards you with shallow depth of field, the Canon is definitely much more reliable. But overall i would choose GH6 as it is really more a video focus camera and there are many things that the R6 just can't offer me if i use it as a video camera. Re astro night time lapse, I'm not aware of any limitations, i think if you use it with a fast lens like the Leica 10-25 1.7 or even one of the cheap manual focus f/0.95 or other fast lens, it would be really capable. It may not be as clean as R6 due to the smaller sensor size, but it is surely better than the GH5.
@@TheRealRichardWong thank you for the detailed answers! Same thoughts, I am a little bit worried by the mtf in the long run but the overcompressed 4k on r6 is clearly a redflag for me :)
Can't really guess what will happen in the long future but i'm quite sure micro four thirds will be around for many more years as both Olympus and Panasonic as still planning to release many more cameras, not to mention many other companies are still releasing new lenses and even cameras for this format as well.
I couldn't have asked for a better answer to precisely this question. One question, though: I noticed you did noise reduction in davinci resolve on your ProRes Raw footage. Since Resolve doesn't support ProRes Raw directly, what program did you use to convert your file to something Resolve can handle? Did you convert it to Adobe DNR?
I don’t see why raw (pre de-bayer) should be larger than post debater. Pre-de-bayer is only 10 bit per pixel where as the debayered image (raw) is 3x10 bit per pixel.
Hi there, Richard. Thanks for the video. I actually would like to see the dynamic range test done in the REVERSE way, meaning to maybe UNDER-expose by a stop or two and see which one you could salvage the best by pulling up the exposure in post. Yes, I know that they would all be rather noisy. But would they all suffer from a (significant) color shift? Would the RAW files (with no noise reduction baked in) be better since all the nose reduction would be done in the NLE?
Thank you! The way how V-Log record video is by recording the brightness in log scale, so that means the dark area would have tonnes of information, while the highlight would have a lot less, so usually it's the highlight area that you may see more artifacts like banding and i would imagine, there may not be too much differences if i compare the H.265 and ProRes 422 V-Log footage with the ProRes RAW footage. But this is just my assumption, i would write down your suggestion and see if i can get around to do more testing in the future!
ua-cam.com/video/xGXEFAH3rwM/v-deo.html nope. I can record 422 Prores on my SSD. So no external recorder needed. FW 2.2. Actually the GH6 is quite nice to record for cheap: Some All-I formats (afaik
With my GH5, I use h.265 for shots involving a lot of camera movement, for slow motion shots 1080p All-I 60fps and for critical detail shots with little to no camera movement C4K 24fps All-I. I take all of this and convert it to ProRes 422/LT and Proxy for editing. I seem to be able to recover up to 2 stops of exposure one way or another, which is fantastic in my opinion. Could I get GH6's or S5iiX's for SSD, yes I could, but there's still hope within slightly older models too.
Interesting video. One of my highest priorities is always protecting or recovering highlights and how gracefully highlight roll off is. There are differences between camera models for sure but I believe RAW is more critically decisive for some camera models. I haven’t gotten a whole lot of use out of my GH6 recently so I probably need to go back and check but on my RED Komodo highlight preservation shooting in R3D is pretty good at 4 - 6 stops overexposed where had I been shooting ProRes 422 there is data that would have been lost with out a doubt. Especially in hair and through windows looking outside when shooting in challenging conditions. This is also true on my Fuji X-H2s where I notice improved highlight recovery and roll off when using ProRes RAW over the X-H2s internal ProRes 422 HQ. Granted RED claims the Komodo is 16bit and the Fuji claims a 14bit color pipeline when using FLOG2 - I’m not sure what the GH6 internal color bit rate is - it might be limited to 12bit for video but my raw experience seems to be a lot different than what this video seems to indicate.
@@TheRealRichardWong I did find out something interesting when talking to an engineer that works for Panasonic today. Apparently VLOG-L was designed for a sensor that had only 12 stops of dynamic range. No data is recorded above 80 IRE or below 4 IRE. It’s one of the reasons that the GH5/6 are not Netflix approved. Netflix tested and found their was not enough dynamic range in the VLOG color profile. This is just what I was told so I may take to verify for myself but if true it’s sort of a bummer. So even though a chosen codec on the GH5/6 is capable of 10 bits or more, once VLOG-L is applied it cripples whatever DR could have been down to the 12 stops that IRE range is capable of containing. The Panasonic BGH1 is Netflix approved even though it uses the same sensor as the GH5s. Apparently it uses different processing and a 12bit readout along with an updated VLOG L profile to extend the luminance limits beyond what’s included in the GH series of cameras. I wonder if the impact of the standard VLOG L profile ( if you used VLOG L in your tests ) may have essentially put upper and lower limits on the tests dynamic range essentially compressing it to the same DR no matter what codec you used. If this is true it may have crippled what ProRes RAW was capable of when it comes to highlight recovery etc?
you are correct the V-LogL profile was created for cameras that doesn't quite reach the full V-Log profile, so the "light" profile is created to allow capture the tonal changes better for sensors that has lower dynamic range. But the GH6 has better dynamic range so Panasonic changed to the full V-Log, not V-LogL Re GH6's dynamic range for V-Log vs Prores, from the information i received from Panasonic, it suggests the dynamic range is identical when record using either of these formats, and that's also what I found from my controlled comparison test.
Hi Richard. Excellent explanation and tests. I really appreciate your hard work. I also have the GH6 and have the Ninja V+ and have been doing extensive testing. One thing that you did not mention is that when recording ProRes Raw in 120p 4k to the Ninja V+ the image is cropped by 1.4x. I'm a bit disappointed that Panasonic didn't mention this in their announcement. Most of the time I do not use ProRes Raw except when shooting in low light conditions. For example, the Sony A7SIII is the low light king but Sony really piles on a bunch of noise reduction at the higher ISOs. I much prefer to shoot raw, then remove the noise using Davinci Resolve myself. It makes for a much better final product. One final comment...I still can't believe that Black Magic has yet to adopt ProRes Raw in Davinci Resolve. I would gladly pay extra to have this feature. This makes for a cumbersome work flow and the footage must be transcoded first. I use Final Cut Pro to accomplish this with the GH6. I have been using a converter called "RawConvertor" for Sony cameras. It converts the footage to DNG files. Unfortunately the software has yet to adopt Panasonic cameras. It works with both Sony and Canon cameras. Thanks Richard!
Hi Alan, Thanks for watching! Panasonic's ProRes RAW implmention is always direct pixel to pixel to gives you best image quality and the real RAW. Unfortunately it does mean there is a crop if you want the ck4 120p footage on the GH6 as it doesn't match the sensor resolution. Some company chooses to do line skipping RAW output instead, which allows you to use full sensor width, downside is compromise in image quality. I've touch on that topic a bit at around 16:07 with a diagram to explain why there is a crop. As a Davinci Resolve user myself, i would love to see ProRes RAW supported in Davinci Resolve too too and definitely happy to pay extra for that. But seeing ProRes RAW/Atomos is direct competitor to their own BRAW/BlackMagic Video Assist, i really don't think it would happen anytime soon. It is really another big pain point for anyone want to shoot in ProRes RAW.
Yikes! Thanks for mentioning that. That really sucks. That's exactly the reason I was going to get the V+: 120fps with the GH6 in ProRes Raw. And the people who make the Ninja recorders don't mention it either.
@@keithsanborn8508 A 20mm (35 mm full-frame) lens has a 40mm equivalent field of view in M43 cameras. Then record in 4k raw120p externally and your lens now has a 56mm equivalent field of view.
Thanks. I was factoring that in: with a 10mm lens you get a 20mm equivalent, so 28mm equivalent with a 1.4 crop factor. I guess depending on how wide your lens goes, this might or might not be a deal-breaker. Super-helpful you pointed that out. In anamorphic (shot flat) you would get the most sensor real estate to play with but not at 120fps.
Hey Richard, thanks for the explanation and breakdown. I'm curious why you compared the 10bit 420 Long GOP to the ProRes files rather than the 10bit 422 All-i 400mbps? That is the codec I use in C4k and love it when editing. I also use Davinci Resolve so I'm not sure I'm going to bother with ProRes RAW. I'm crossing my fingers for a BRAW update using the Black magic recorder (hopefully!)
The original plan was just to talk about the ProRes RAW and ProRes 422, then I thought I should talk about how is it different from the non ProRes format. I did consider whether i should pick H.264 (GH6's 10bit 422 All-i) or H.265, or both and maybe include the mp4 format output too. But in the end i choose H.265 because it is the newer codec which the industry is moving to as it provides smaller file size than the H.264. But i agree there are many users shooting with the h.264 output formats with the GH6 too. Re BRAW, yes let's see. But Panasonic is really quiet about this so I wouldn't put too much hope on it (at least not yet)
Depends on what you're filming, in another reply I stated that with my GH5, HEVC works great when you are C4K 24fps with a lot of camera movement, something about motion interpolation is great with it. Slow motion in 1080p60 422 10bit ALL-I is cherry, it maintains a lot of fine detail vs Long-GOP, especially since my GH5 can't do 4k60 ALL-I. I do my critical detail non-slowmo in C4K in ALL-I
Amazing informative video! I learned so much! I still own a Samsung NX1 which outputs .265. In 2014 that was way ahead of it's time but Samsung was right to go with that format at that time. Of course time went on and more formats developed. But I am surprised that .265 still is relevant today. I am looking into buying an Lumix S5 and then record through a Blackmagic video assist in BRAW. The Blackmagic cameras are a bit too clunky for my taste and I also want to be able to shoot great Fotos. So doing BRAW I will to have to rig it all up. Or I may just wait for the next generation of Lumix to come out to see the improvements.
Thanks for watching. Samsung was definitely a bit ahead of it's time when they release the NX system. I really wish they decided to stay for a few more years to build up their lineup and reputation as they have made some really interesting products even back then External RAW recording is a bit cumbersome, unfortunately the current patent issues mean most company won't be able to implement internal RAW recording. Maybe USB SSD RAW recording could be the best solution in the foreseen-able future (assuming it is not affected by the patents)
It's not relevant enough in my opinion. Personally ALL-I 422 10bit H.265 in 200-400mbps would be highly competitive to most raw formats at 1/4 or even 1/6th the file size.
@@TheRealRichardWong Patents can be a good thing protecting intelectual ownership. On the other hand, from a consumer's perspective it's not so great for as we can see, is hindering other companies to implement great inovations into their systems, too. Other's these companies are willing to pay license fees if the inovations are even licensed out, that is.
Richard - thanks for the great videos. How does DR Boost play into all of this? For ProRes Raw (external) is minimum DR Boost ISO 800? (vs 2000 for v-log) What are then the 'best quality' video settings for the GH6? Thanks
hi J. S. from memory, it is still ISO800 min for D.R boost for ProRes RAW. but i don't have a GH6 with me right now to check for you. Sorry what do you mean by "Best quality" video setting? if you mean the absolute best quality it would be record in ProRes RAW HQ using Atomos
I find the argument for prores 422 in real world use to be strange. Not specific to this video, everything said was accurate. Just how many people will own a camera, SSD, and/or external recording monitor to capture prores 422…yet have a bad computer? I’ve always found that to be incredibly unlikely. And more likely most people who use it are deep down just hoping the super high data rate helps with video quality. Even if they know it likely doesn’t make a visual difference. Great video.
Hi :). There are two use cases i can think of: 1 People with old(er) computer but just bought a new camera. A lot of casual photographer/videographers i know do not upgrade their computer very often, then they bought a new camera/recorder and then realise their computer is not fast enough to handle it. Even myself, i was struggling to edit my video on my MBP for a long time 2. More serious videographer/editor that handles large projects. When you have multiple 4k+ video on your timeline + effects..etc, even a semi-decent computer would start to struggle. Prores422 would make editing a lot easier.
Thank U for the video. I'm impressed by H.265 10 bit 4:2:0 video quality. For blue screen work or projecting video to big screens, I would go for ProRes Raw, otherwise I would stay with H.265 10 bit 4:2:0. And Final Cut Pro... Oh, No.
Still learning all these formats, i shoot on a fuji hx2 and a blackmagic 6k……. I have an atomos ninja v but am thinking to get a blackmagic recording screen to use braw …… right now I am learning davinci but feel it may be cheaper to use my current kit with final cut…. Mostly shoot with the fuji you see
Hello again Richard. This is the 3rd time I've watched this and it gets better each time. That is a lot of great info to examine. I wanted to ask you this... Does 4K intra take more computer resources to edit then 4K ProRes? I often wonder? Is the pro res easier to edit then INTRA. If so, buy how much?. Is it a big difference?
@@TheRealRichardWong thanks RIchard. Yes of course the file size but still if it's easier to edit I'll use it. I'm gong to test. Thanks again. As you know I think you videos are gold.
Thank you very much for this video. I am still trying to understand the benefits of all the recording options in my GH6 and this video has helped me greatly.
Hi Richard, I have an S5. Do you know if a Ninja V would allow me to keep the in-camera corrections if shooting in ProRes 422 externally (Not Raw)? Because this format isn't supported by my S5 internally, I'm not entirely sure if external recording would take away the advantages that you mentioned concerning the GH6. Thank you for all your insightful information!
Hi Jake, Yes i'm pretty sure the external ProRes 422 recording using a Ninja V would still keep the in-camera corrction/noise reduction..etc. It's only if you switch to RAW HDMI output, then all those process got skipped when output to external recorder
Very informative. I am using Nikon Z6ii with Atmos Ninja V+ at the moment I am using Proress RAW and I cant find H265 its may be my Nikon Z6ii dosent support H265 I need to have a look in to again
I can't remember if the z6ii supports h.265, but if not I am sure it can record in normal h.264 which in a lot of way is very simialr to h.264 just less efficient in terms of file size but easier to decode
Looking at the noise reduction comparison the left is H265 that has motion prediction this naturally creates temporal noise reduction so you can see that there is a difference between H265 and ProRes, if the camera was applying noise reduction those would look the same so the difference is the codec. This is consistent with other cameras as well. As ProRes RAW has no correction for chromatic aberrations the noise also gets more color so it looks terrible across the piece at high ISO low light. Even in ProRes there are situation when noise reduction is required
No the camera applies noise reduction in Vlog (NR 0) and even more with other profiles. Pixel to Pixel is the only mode with less noise reduction. The pictures is not good in low light, it is clean for a M43 camera but details are smoothed, the S5 is way better.
@@aiseurnae5976 i think you are missing the fact that as gain goes up sharpness drop which has nothing to do with noise reduction. The S5 has the same identical logic is just a different sensor
@@Interceptor121 It is not only a sharpness drop, i compared with my GH5 at ISO 800, some details are not here anymore on the GH6, like if textures were smoothed. Adding sharpness in post just gives weird textures because fine details are already smoothed out. The only mode without so much noise reduction is the pixel to pixel mode, video is very noisy but looks like film grain. The GH5S and A7SIII use the same processing to give the impression of better low light performance.
@@aiseurnae5976 the opposite the original GH5 had sharpening, the gh5s has both sharpening and noise reduction, the GH5M2 and GH6 less so. I have used and run those cameras side by side.
@@Interceptor121 I also used these cameras and run a lot of comparisons. The GH5 has more sharpening but less smoothed details than the GH6, it is even more noticeable with Natural or Cine-D. GH6 details look like smeared. It's obvious when you add sharpening in post, some details are gone. It is because of the 3D noise reduction and mostly about the digital moire filter, according to Panasonic, "it eliminates the need for a low-pass filter and smooths fine details like hair and wires to minimize moiré patterns". Therefore If you want to keep the most details you need very sharp and bright lenses on the GH6 like the 25-50mm. Still according to Panasonic : " Thanks to the new High Precision 3D Noise Reduction for video,the detection capability of still and moving parts has been advanced, making it possible to optimise noise reduction while minimising afterimages". It is used even in Prores, I can see a bit more noise on Prores compared to H265 but there is still noise reduction going on because the noise still appears smoothed, skin tones also look smoothed and unnatural. The GH6 noise performance is more or less the same than the G9 in photo so how the GH6 could be so much cleaner than the G9 in video without using noise reduction and fine details processing ? It is obvious even at low ISO when the DR BOOST is off. Most people couldn't see the issue on the A7SIII and GH5S so sadly we will see more and more cameras with the same processing.
Why write in ProRes 422, if you can record in H.265 and then transcode the video to ProRes 422 through the media encoder program and only then edit ProRes 422 ? Will the quality of such transcoded ProRes 422 be worse than ProRes 422 received directly in the camera? Also, I didn't understand, if you write in ProRes 422, you need to write in a standard profile or in a vlog?
To counter your question, If you are going to transcode it to ProRes422, why record in H.265 in the beginning :) My point is, if you want to introduce ProRes422 to your workflow, you could simplify the workflow and minimise total storage space by just recording straight to ProRes422 at the beginning if possible Also if you are using GH6, H.265 can only record in 420 as well, so image quality won't be quite as good as ProRes422 due to the more aggressive chroma sub-sampling You need to pick your picture profile when recording ProRes422, ideally V-LOG to get maximum dynamic range.
@@TheRealRichardWong I see that the camera can shoot 4.2.2 in H.264. Does this mean that if I encode H.264 to ProRes422, I will get the same ProRes422 as when I shot it with a camera? I'm interested because I don't edit all videos, and most of the videos I don't edit at all or edit very little. Therefore, to save space, it is more logical to shoot in H.264 in 4.2.2.
@@lnuponom2678 I haven't compare them myself so i can't answer for sure. but i would expect there would be very small difference between 10 bit H.264 422 compare to the ProRes422. If you don't edit much at all, just shoot in H.265 (or 264). But if you do a lot of editing, it is just easier to record straight as ProRes422 if possible, instead of having to transcode during post processing which takes up time and more space in your storage.
@@AlphaTroll showing being in 420 is irrelevant. All video platforms only Support 420 in the first place. But it doesn’t make recording 422 and above less valuable. It’s like saying all SDR videos are 8 bit, therefore 10 bit video doesn’t matter. It’s all about manipulating the data you do have. Then exporting as if you recorded directly with that vision in mind (420 8 bit is 100% fine if 0 edits will be applied).
I had been using ANGELBIRD 4TB CF EXPRESS for Prores 5.7 k 30 fps in GH6 before the 2.0 firmware update july 5. Now after the update my card give error (cf express card exceeds 2 tb) . Hmm i did short vid of full record of little over 2hrs on this card dated before 2.0
I was using 4Tb ANGELBIRD CF EXPRESS CARD UNTIL 2.0 firmware and now i cannot format or use the card. All i get is error(cf express exceeds 2tb)lumix said the firmware 2.0 did not address capacity as an answer. Card now is useless and now currently using 4tb raw ssd on the ninja. Thanks
No but it formatted and worked until the update . Although looking back record duration was a little over 2hrs and not sure the calculation of time is should record per file size. Assuming i should get 4hrs internal prores 5.7k 30 hq on 4tb.?. Thank you
This is one of the best explanation videos I’ve ever seen on UA-cam, any genre. The amount of details and real-world application along with analogies was perfect. I’m a photographer interested in video and I’ve seen about 10-15 videos already on file types, and I finally feel like I have a good idea of what will meet my needs the best. Thank you so much!
Thanks a lot for this explanation, I bought a week ago ninja v mounted onto my S1. You speak with a really good English and pace for a French people like me, easily understandable, much appreciated
hi there, sorry i'm not sure if the 2018 MBP has hardware decoding support for H.265 420 files, but i would guess it is still quite a bit faster/easier to edit ProRes422 files
@@TheRealRichardWong so, at 14:4 you show that you've applied noise reduction to your Prores Raw footage via Davinci Resolve. Was it compared into another format first?
Excellent video Richard. Even ProRes 422 is quite consuming and challenging for my SSD storage system on my M1 Mac Mini. My hope is with the rollout of the SSD external recording with the GH6 that ProRes LT will become available one day. It will be interesting to see what happens in the future. Does H264 422 recording have less banding than H265, or is H265 generally more efficient?
Hi David, thanks for watching. You mentioned it is challenging for your storage, do you mean the size? I'm curious to see what Panasonic will do with the SSD External recording. Not sure if we will see ProRes LT though as if they do that, they probably would implement that for internal storage instead? I haven't compare H.264/H.265 this time, but H.265 is more compressed so file size is smaller but require more processing power to decode it. Also on the GH6, H.265 output is only 420.. if you want 422 it has to be H.264, or Prores 422
No it's not waterproof. I'm not aware of any mirrorless camera that is waterproof, but the GH6 is weatherproof and i've used it under rain many times no problem at all. But it is NOT waterproof, don't splash it with sea waves, the salt in sea water is very bad to camera (any camera). Don't purposely spray it with water too.
Excellent Richard. I am going to use pro res 4K for a while. I like being able to go Pixel to Pixel mode when needed. When in pro rest 5.7 you can't do that. What color profile do you use when not shooting Vlog? I have been doing well with Natural but have not tried the others. What do you think? Enjoyed every moment of this video. Great Job again.
hi @SUTV thanks a lot! I use Natural too when not using V-LOG, i found it's easy to do colour grading easily to get the results i want. But I haven't really experiment with every single colour profile, just found it seems to work fine.
@@TheRealRichardWong Same here Richard. LOL I am going to do some testing with the others and if I find anything incredible I'll let you know. Thanks for getting back to me.
can you do a video on how you store your data? like you have 10 clips of 30 mins footage, but you will ever need 1 mins from each clips (i.e. 29 mins of each clips are useless rubbish) , what work flow is the best in keep the best quality of this 10 mins in total footage , yet be space efficient? Thanks
I was originally going to make a short video that talks about the new Lumix GH6 firmware 2.0, but somehow it turned into this much longer video that talks about the difference between ProRes RAW, ProRes 422 and H.265. Sorry there is a lot of talking in this video so it maybe a bit boring, but I hope some of you would find this video useful.
Hi Richard. That was an excellent run through the differences, with relevant examples that showed the differences clearly. Finding the best balance between file formats, codecs, file size, quality, NLE load, etc is a complex one, which puts a lot of pressure on correct equipment purchase before you buy a new camera. The last thing anyone wants to do is invest thousands into new cameras (and lenses) only to discover after a few months that the gear you bought isn't optimal to your workflow. Thank you for taking the time to produce this thorough and well presented comparisons, and you conclusions. As someone who does a lot of Greenscreen work, I really appreciated what you said about the Bayer sensor and 422 vs RAW. As a Lumix camera user and Apple computer user I found this video extremely helpful, as with your other Lumix camera review and comparison videos. Keep up the good work, I'm sure others are finding your content as helpful as I do.
Thank you very much!
What a superbly-explained video - so much so that after watching UA-cam videos for years, I've actually signed up to leave a comment! Well done.
hi Chris, thank you so much! Really appreciate that :)
After years of being obsessed with Raw/Logs it’s much much easier to mess something up than it is to let the camera do its thing especially for anything that’s not controlled. I wasted a good year or two of my life editing videos in the color tabs to now just simply shoot everything standard lol
did u stop color grading or i read wrong ?
@@S9universe I still grade it a little, but definitely never shoot log.
GH5 user here. I use the 422 10 bit All-I (400 Mbps) mode for fiction projects, and 422 10 bit Long GOP (150 Mbps) for documentary projects. With a proxy workflow, both of those work perfectly fine for my needs. However, I find the Prores 422 HQ of the GH6 really tempting, since the master file deliverable is in that format. I’d rather not risk recording solely to an external recorder (too many points of risk, from loose cables to Hard drives getting corrupt, to bumping into stuff, maybe even destroying ports if it’s flimsy like Micro HDMI etc), so Prores RAW is a no go. It’s better to manage light using lighting, ND filters, polarisers, ISO and Aperture than shoot with poor exposure. Prores is more forgiving of temperature shift, so WB shouldn’t be an issue for basic changes
yes internal recording is a good safe option if you worry about external cable. I really wish GH6 has dual CFE card slots so you can record backup even when recording ProRes 422 internal
@@TheRealRichardWong Agree. That would have been amazing
Richard, you are good! I learned a lot.
Thanks for watching Cameron
wow. extremely thorough and helpful. great job.
Glad it was helpful!
I just love your videos. So informative and detailed and easy to follow. Thanks very much for such intelligent and helpful content.
Thank you very much Keith! :)
Your presentation was so well scripted snd densely packed. It really was very helpful and you have a very well honed review skill. No fluff or filler. Verrrry professional. Thanks again.
Just recently switched to ProRes workflow. Not going back lol. Even my wife's MacBook Air is absolutely crushing it. I also think ProRes has a huge advantage over H.265 (even All-I) whenever something is moving. Like when camera is moving through a room following someone, H.265 falls apart in my opinion. I'm actually having a lot of trouble with my drone because of this.
Can I ask if you mean ProRes RAW or ProRes 422? Currently trying to decide which workflow is best myself because as much as I would love the results of RAW, it takes up too much time to edit. One single clip of 30 seconds took about 20 minutes just to de-noise! Do you find a similar issue? Thanks in advance!
@@TheCici927 422.
Really good explanation and analysis!
Thanks @ZEPHAN Y !
Just as a note towards the editing 422 10bit, Davinci resolve 18 free does not support it.the paid studio version does. I had to buy it when I changed to a FX3.
Yes correct, free version of Davinci Resolve doesn't support 10bit video files.
Many thanks. Just missed the link to the video about a more basic question about this topic. 10 bit or 8 bit? 4:2:2 or 4:2:0?, and then when 10 bit 4:2:2 is chosen, then this video fits perfectly.
Regards!
Thanks for the suggestions Andres
great video, very informative. Thank you
Glad it was helpful!😁
Not enough love of your cooking analogy. Caused a brain montage of how codec/ internal recording corelates with cooking. Really helped me. You have your own thing going and I want to say keep it up! But if you were ever to cook a meal and film it at the same time to show the correlation of codec/ internal recording and seasoning/temperatures/all cooking practices, may smash through the brains of the internet and lead to a utopia of better footage and food.
oh a cooking show with camera! haha i might try that next time :D. thanks for watching
Very helpful. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Great explanation!
Richard, you looks as mind person, could you clarify me, why panasonic packed extended v-gamut colorspace (v-log) into rec709 colorspace? You can check it in metadata. After that operation, v-log become typical profile as Standart/Natural etc with very specific curve, but rec709 has theoretical 9.97 stops of lights, that mean no matter what you choose: v-log, cined2/Standart (with contrast/saturation -5), you will get this 10 stops maximum. P.S. even sony/canon can choose rec709/bt2020 colorspace for their log profiles.
Hi Evgeniy , My understanding is that vlog footage is recorded in V-Gamut, which is a wider gamut than rec709. You will need to use a LUT to convert the V-Gamut footage to rec709. And when i compare ProRes RAW footage vs V-LOG/V-Gamut footage from the same camera, they do show virtually identical dynamic range and much bigger than what rec709 can capture.
Can you please tell me how do you see it's recorded in rec709 space?
@@TheRealRichardWong You can check it in mediainfo or ffmpeg. The textbox of each videofile contains "v-gamut" data, but it is textbox. Original videostream in each file packed in h265 Main 10@L5.2 into bt709 colorspace
@@TheRealRichardWong some ppl told me, this "rec709" is also tag. So, file has real v-gamut colorspace, but tagged as rec709
: 99% of each non HDR log videos tagged as rec709.
That could be. Maybe just so to allow software to play it? but yes i'm pretty sure it's not actually recorded in rec709 space
@@TheRealRichardWong Looks like that, just to see video
really informative, included everything I was looking for about the prores format, it helps with my decision on the new S5 ii X
Glad the video helped:)
I’m also having the same dilemma on whether to wait for the s5iix or not. My computer handles h.264 pretty good, but I want the highest quality I can get internal without going RAW. Either of y’all have suggestions between getting the s5ii now or waiting for the s5iix this Summer?
@@VisionOneCreatives you mean H.265 i suppose. Because S52 only shoots H.265 mostly. X shoots Prores 422 Lt I think because someone said its 800mb/s at 6k on ssd and its allintra
@@guardianlillebi8139 @RichardWong I meant h264 because that’s what my r6 shoots now and my computer handles it well in 1080p and 4k isn’t that bad. Asking because I like the s52/x for the more video centric features. If there’s a big difference in quality of the footage between h264/265 versus prores (all options being 10 bit 422), then I’d wait for the s52x. But if the only noticeable advantage is edit times then I might get the s52 now. I don’t do this for a living; it’s a side hustle so longer editing time spent isn’t a huge concern for me.
@@guardianlillebi8139x shoot ProRes 422HQ
Clear and understandable Thank You.
Great to hear! :)
Hi Richard! Really useful review of the 2.0 gh6.
I have two questions if u don't mind:
- what do u recommend for cinematic filmmakers (no ninja): canon r6 (fullframe but ipb compressed 4k) vs gh6 (mft but prores)
- no one ever make astro-nightlapse with gh6 on youtube. Is it a coincidence or this camera has some hidden-limitation for capturing milky-way?
R6 or GH6? I think it's not very easy to answer as i see both cameras has certain pros and cons. for the R6, the pros would be it's really good autofocus system, the full frame sensor advantage like high ISO, shallow DOF. for the GH6, it;s really impressive list of video features like all the additional tools, high quality output video formats, prores, unlimited recording and virtually doesn't overheat.. Also it would be a smaller setup and it's IBIS is great too.
So i think it really depends on what you need the most. i think for most people it would be whether GH6's autofocus is good enough for you or not. For me, i think GH6's autofocus while not perfect is good enough for me, I use that for most of my recent youtube videos and a bit of other work too, and i rarely have any issues with it. But if you need to shoot someone running towards you with shallow depth of field, the Canon is definitely much more reliable. But overall i would choose GH6 as it is really more a video focus camera and there are many things that the R6 just can't offer me if i use it as a video camera.
Re astro night time lapse, I'm not aware of any limitations, i think if you use it with a fast lens like the Leica 10-25 1.7 or even one of the cheap manual focus f/0.95 or other fast lens, it would be really capable. It may not be as clean as R6 due to the smaller sensor size, but it is surely better than the GH5.
@@TheRealRichardWong thank you for the detailed answers! Same thoughts, I am a little bit worried by the mtf in the long run but the overcompressed 4k on r6 is clearly a redflag for me :)
Can't really guess what will happen in the long future but i'm quite sure micro four thirds will be around for many more years as both Olympus and Panasonic as still planning to release many more cameras, not to mention many other companies are still releasing new lenses and even cameras for this format as well.
I couldn't have asked for a better answer to precisely this question. One question, though: I noticed you did noise reduction in davinci resolve on your ProRes Raw footage. Since Resolve doesn't support ProRes Raw directly, what program did you use to convert your file to something Resolve can handle? Did you convert it to Adobe DNR?
great video thankyou
great video thankyou!
Glad you liked it!
Çok iyi anlatım teşekkür ederim. Türkiyeden selamlar
I don’t see why raw (pre de-bayer) should be larger than post debater. Pre-de-bayer is only 10 bit per pixel where as the debayered image (raw) is 3x10 bit per pixel.
👍🏾🙏🏾
Thanks for watching
Hi there, Richard. Thanks for the video. I actually would like to see the dynamic range test done in the REVERSE way, meaning to maybe UNDER-expose by a stop or two and see which one you could salvage the best by pulling up the exposure in post. Yes, I know that they would all be rather noisy. But would they all suffer from a (significant) color shift? Would the RAW files (with no noise reduction baked in) be better since all the nose reduction would be done in the NLE?
Thank you! The way how V-Log record video is by recording the brightness in log scale, so that means the dark area would have tonnes of information, while the highlight would have a lot less, so usually it's the highlight area that you may see more artifacts like banding and i would imagine, there may not be too much differences if i compare the H.265 and ProRes 422 V-Log footage with the ProRes RAW footage. But this is just my assumption, i would write down your suggestion and see if i can get around to do more testing in the future!
ua-cam.com/video/xGXEFAH3rwM/v-deo.html
nope.
I can record 422 Prores on my SSD. So no external recorder needed. FW 2.2.
Actually the GH6 is quite nice to record for cheap: Some All-I formats (afaik
With my GH5, I use h.265 for shots involving a lot of camera movement, for slow motion shots 1080p All-I 60fps and for critical detail shots with little to no camera movement C4K 24fps All-I. I take all of this and convert it to ProRes 422/LT and Proxy for editing. I seem to be able to recover up to 2 stops of exposure one way or another, which is fantastic in my opinion. Could I get GH6's or S5iiX's for SSD, yes I could, but there's still hope within slightly older models too.
Interesting video. One of my highest priorities is always protecting or recovering highlights and how gracefully highlight roll off is.
There are differences between camera models for sure but I believe RAW is more critically decisive for some camera models. I haven’t gotten a whole lot of use out of my GH6 recently so I probably need to go back and check but on my RED Komodo highlight preservation shooting in R3D is pretty good at 4 - 6 stops overexposed where had I been shooting ProRes 422 there is data that would have been lost with out a doubt. Especially in hair and through windows looking outside when shooting in challenging conditions. This is also true on my Fuji X-H2s where I notice improved highlight recovery and roll off when using ProRes RAW over the X-H2s internal ProRes 422 HQ.
Granted RED claims the Komodo is 16bit and the Fuji claims a 14bit color pipeline when using FLOG2 - I’m not sure what the GH6 internal color bit rate is - it might be limited to 12bit for video but my raw experience seems to be a lot different than what this video seems to indicate.
thanks for the feedback!
@@TheRealRichardWong I did find out something interesting when talking to an engineer that works for Panasonic today. Apparently VLOG-L was designed for a sensor that had only 12 stops of dynamic range. No data is recorded above 80 IRE or below 4 IRE. It’s one of the reasons that the GH5/6 are not Netflix approved. Netflix tested and found their was not enough dynamic range in the VLOG color profile. This is just what I was told so I may take to verify for myself but if true it’s sort of a bummer.
So even though a chosen codec on the GH5/6 is capable of 10 bits or more, once VLOG-L is applied it cripples whatever DR could have been down to the 12 stops that IRE range is capable of containing.
The Panasonic BGH1 is Netflix approved even though it uses the same sensor as the GH5s. Apparently it uses different processing and a 12bit readout along with an updated VLOG L profile to extend the luminance limits beyond what’s included in the GH series of cameras.
I wonder if the impact of the standard VLOG L profile ( if you used VLOG L in your tests ) may have essentially put upper and lower limits on the tests dynamic range essentially compressing it to the same DR no matter what codec you used. If this is true it may have crippled what ProRes RAW was capable of when it comes to highlight recovery etc?
you are correct the V-LogL profile was created for cameras that doesn't quite reach the full V-Log profile, so the "light" profile is created to allow capture the tonal changes better for sensors that has lower dynamic range.
But the GH6 has better dynamic range so Panasonic changed to the full V-Log, not V-LogL
Re GH6's dynamic range for V-Log vs Prores, from the information i received from Panasonic, it suggests the dynamic range is identical when record using either of these formats, and that's also what I found from my controlled comparison test.
Always helpful and informative. And I love the way your videos are stepping up their game. Wonderful work Richard!
Much appreciated! Glad to hear my videos are improving :) Thank you so much for your support Lance!
Hi Richard. Excellent explanation and tests. I really appreciate your hard work. I also have the GH6 and have the Ninja V+ and have been doing extensive testing. One thing that you did not mention is that when recording ProRes Raw in 120p 4k to the Ninja V+ the image is cropped by 1.4x. I'm a bit disappointed that Panasonic didn't mention this in their announcement.
Most of the time I do not use ProRes Raw except when shooting in low light conditions. For example, the Sony A7SIII is the low light king but Sony really piles on a bunch of noise reduction at the higher ISOs. I much prefer to shoot raw, then remove the noise using Davinci Resolve myself. It makes for a much better final product.
One final comment...I still can't believe that Black Magic has yet to adopt ProRes Raw in Davinci Resolve. I would gladly pay extra to have this feature. This makes for a cumbersome work flow and the footage must be transcoded first. I use Final Cut Pro to accomplish this with the GH6. I have been using a converter called "RawConvertor" for Sony cameras. It converts the footage to DNG files. Unfortunately the software has yet to adopt Panasonic cameras. It works with both Sony and Canon cameras.
Thanks Richard!
Hi Alan, Thanks for watching! Panasonic's ProRes RAW implmention is always direct pixel to pixel to gives you best image quality and the real RAW. Unfortunately it does mean there is a crop if you want the ck4 120p footage on the GH6 as it doesn't match the sensor resolution. Some company chooses to do line skipping RAW output instead, which allows you to use full sensor width, downside is compromise in image quality. I've touch on that topic a bit at around 16:07 with a diagram to explain why there is a crop.
As a Davinci Resolve user myself, i would love to see ProRes RAW supported in Davinci Resolve too too and definitely happy to pay extra for that. But seeing ProRes RAW/Atomos is direct competitor to their own BRAW/BlackMagic Video Assist, i really don't think it would happen anytime soon. It is really another big pain point for anyone want to shoot in ProRes RAW.
Yikes! Thanks for mentioning that. That really sucks. That's exactly the reason I was going to get the V+: 120fps with the GH6 in ProRes Raw. And the people who make the Ninja recorders don't mention it either.
By 1.4 crop, do you mean that with a lens with the 35mm equivalent of 20mm, you would get a crop to the equivalent of a 28mm?
@@keithsanborn8508 A 20mm (35 mm full-frame) lens has a 40mm equivalent field of view in M43 cameras. Then record in 4k raw120p externally and your lens now has a 56mm equivalent field of view.
Thanks. I was factoring that in: with a 10mm lens you get a 20mm equivalent, so 28mm equivalent with a 1.4 crop factor. I guess depending on how wide your lens goes, this might or might not be a deal-breaker. Super-helpful you pointed that out. In anamorphic (shot flat) you would get the most sensor real estate to play with but not at 120fps.
thank you so much for clearly explaining the pros and cons of prores raw
Thank you for watching and support @Obed Brinkman :)
Lil Bits
Really appreciate this. I keep thinking of going to raw, but this feels like prores 422hq is doing everything I need.
Very useful information. Thanks!
Hey Richard, thanks for the explanation and breakdown. I'm curious why you compared the 10bit 420 Long GOP to the ProRes files rather than the 10bit 422 All-i 400mbps? That is the codec I use in C4k and love it when editing. I also use Davinci Resolve so I'm not sure I'm going to bother with ProRes RAW. I'm crossing my fingers for a BRAW update using the Black magic recorder (hopefully!)
The original plan was just to talk about the ProRes RAW and ProRes 422, then I thought I should talk about how is it different from the non ProRes format. I did consider whether i should pick H.264 (GH6's 10bit 422 All-i) or H.265, or both and maybe include the mp4 format output too. But in the end i choose H.265 because it is the newer codec which the industry is moving to as it provides smaller file size than the H.264. But i agree there are many users shooting with the h.264 output formats with the GH6 too.
Re BRAW, yes let's see. But Panasonic is really quiet about this so I wouldn't put too much hope on it (at least not yet)
Depends on what you're filming, in another reply I stated that with my GH5, HEVC works great when you are C4K 24fps with a lot of camera movement, something about motion interpolation is great with it. Slow motion in 1080p60 422 10bit ALL-I is cherry, it maintains a lot of fine detail vs Long-GOP, especially since my GH5 can't do 4k60 ALL-I. I do my critical detail non-slowmo in C4K in ALL-I
Amazing informative video! I learned so much! I still own a Samsung NX1 which outputs .265. In 2014 that was way ahead of it's time but Samsung was right to go with that format at that time. Of course time went on and more formats developed. But I am surprised that .265 still is relevant today.
I am looking into buying an Lumix S5 and then record through a Blackmagic video assist in BRAW. The Blackmagic cameras are a bit too clunky for my taste and I also want to be able to shoot great Fotos. So doing BRAW I will to have to rig it all up. Or I may just wait for the next generation of Lumix to come out to see the improvements.
Thanks for watching.
Samsung was definitely a bit ahead of it's time when they release the NX system. I really wish they decided to stay for a few more years to build up their lineup and reputation as they have made some really interesting products even back then External RAW recording is a bit cumbersome, unfortunately the current patent issues mean most company won't be able to implement internal RAW recording. Maybe USB SSD RAW recording could be the best solution in the foreseen-able future (assuming it is not affected by the patents)
It's not relevant enough in my opinion. Personally ALL-I 422 10bit H.265 in 200-400mbps would be highly competitive to most raw formats at 1/4 or even 1/6th the file size.
@@TheRealRichardWong Patents can be a good thing protecting intelectual ownership. On the other hand, from a consumer's perspective it's not so great for as we can see, is hindering other companies to implement great inovations into their systems, too. Other's these companies are willing to pay license fees if the inovations are even licensed out, that is.
How did you process the prores raw Noise Reduction in Resolve?
It is not a supported Codec in Resolve
Richard - thanks for the great videos. How does DR Boost play into all of this? For ProRes Raw (external) is minimum DR Boost ISO 800? (vs 2000 for v-log) What are then the 'best quality' video settings for the GH6? Thanks
hi J. S. from memory, it is still ISO800 min for D.R boost for ProRes RAW. but i don't have a GH6 with me right now to check for you. Sorry what do you mean by "Best quality" video setting? if you mean the absolute best quality it would be record in ProRes RAW HQ using Atomos
Very well done. Very informative. Thanks!
hevc could also do 12bit
I find the argument for prores 422 in real world use to be strange. Not specific to this video, everything said was accurate. Just how many people will own a camera, SSD, and/or external recording monitor to capture prores 422…yet have a bad computer? I’ve always found that to be incredibly unlikely. And more likely most people who use it are deep down just hoping the super high data rate helps with video quality. Even if they know it likely doesn’t make a visual difference.
Great video.
Hi :). There are two use cases i can think of:
1 People with old(er) computer but just bought a new camera. A lot of casual photographer/videographers i know do not upgrade their computer very often, then they bought a new camera/recorder and then realise their computer is not fast enough to handle it. Even myself, i was struggling to edit my video on my MBP for a long time
2. More serious videographer/editor that handles large projects. When you have multiple 4k+ video on your timeline + effects..etc, even a semi-decent computer would start to struggle. Prores422 would make editing a lot easier.
Thank U for the video. I'm impressed by H.265 10 bit 4:2:0 video quality. For blue screen work or projecting video to big screens, I would go for ProRes Raw, otherwise I would stay with H.265 10 bit 4:2:0. And Final Cut Pro... Oh, No.
Why u sayboh no to fcpx?
Still learning all these formats, i shoot on a fuji hx2 and a blackmagic 6k……. I have an atomos ninja v but am thinking to get a blackmagic recording screen to use braw …… right now I am learning davinci but feel it may be cheaper to use my current kit with final cut…. Mostly shoot with the fuji you see
Downloaded final cut trial, don’t like it at all compared to davinci
Now we get cooking tips too! Don't cook the meal that's already been cooked! You rock Richard! :-)
haha thanks Peter!! That means you watched the whole video!
Hello again Richard. This is the 3rd time I've watched this and it gets better each time. That is a lot of great info to examine. I wanted to ask you this... Does 4K intra take more computer resources to edit then 4K ProRes? I often wonder? Is the pro res easier to edit then INTRA. If so, buy how much?. Is it a big difference?
My understanding is ProRes is easier to edit than All-Intra, with the downside of larger file size.
But by how much? sorry i have no compared
@@TheRealRichardWong thanks RIchard. Yes of course the file size but still if it's easier to edit I'll use it. I'm gong to test. Thanks again. As you know I think you videos are gold.
I would like to see your gh6 camera settings. ;)
With the GH6, I usually shoot in 4k30 10 bit 420 or 422 internal mov. V-Log. AFC face detection
Thank you very much for this video. I am still trying to understand the benefits of all the recording options in my GH6 and this video has helped me greatly.
You are welcome. If you have questions please drop a message and I can try to answer
Hi Richard, I have an S5. Do you know if a Ninja V would allow me to keep the in-camera corrections if shooting in ProRes 422 externally (Not Raw)? Because this format isn't supported by my S5 internally, I'm not entirely sure if external recording would take away the advantages that you mentioned concerning the GH6. Thank you for all your insightful information!
Hi Jake, Yes i'm pretty sure the external ProRes 422 recording using a Ninja V would still keep the in-camera corrction/noise reduction..etc. It's only if you switch to RAW HDMI output, then all those process got skipped when output to external recorder
Thank you so much!
Thanks Richard - great breakdown!
Glad it was helpful!
Adobe premiere pro
Very informative. I am using Nikon Z6ii with Atmos Ninja V+ at the moment I am using Proress RAW and I cant find H265 its may be my Nikon Z6ii dosent support H265 I need to have a look in to again
I can't remember if the z6ii supports h.265, but if not I am sure it can record in normal h.264 which in a lot of way is very simialr to h.264 just less efficient in terms of file size but easier to decode
@@TheRealRichardWong you have to pay to unlock 265 on the ninja V to record with on the Nikon Z6ii
265 is best. Everything more is total overkill for 99.5% of all users
Yes I use h.265 myself 99.9% of time as well
how are you using davinci resolve to denoise prores raw?
Looking at the noise reduction comparison the left is H265 that has motion prediction this naturally creates temporal noise reduction so you can see that there is a difference between H265 and ProRes, if the camera was applying noise reduction those would look the same so the difference is the codec. This is consistent with other cameras as well. As ProRes RAW has no correction for chromatic aberrations the noise also gets more color so it looks terrible across the piece at high ISO low light. Even in ProRes there are situation when noise reduction is required
No the camera applies noise reduction in Vlog (NR 0) and even more with other profiles. Pixel to Pixel is the only mode with less noise reduction. The pictures is not good in low light, it is clean for a M43 camera but details are smoothed, the S5 is way better.
@@aiseurnae5976 i think you are missing the fact that as gain goes up sharpness drop which has nothing to do with noise reduction. The S5 has the same identical logic is just a different sensor
@@Interceptor121 It is not only a sharpness drop, i compared with my GH5 at ISO 800, some details are not here anymore on the GH6, like if textures were smoothed. Adding sharpness in post just gives weird textures because fine details are already smoothed out. The only mode without so much noise reduction is the pixel to pixel mode, video is very noisy but looks like film grain.
The GH5S and A7SIII use the same processing to give the impression of better low light performance.
@@aiseurnae5976 the opposite the original GH5 had sharpening, the gh5s has both sharpening and noise reduction, the GH5M2 and GH6 less so. I have used and run those cameras side by side.
@@Interceptor121 I also used these cameras and run a lot of comparisons. The GH5 has more sharpening but less smoothed details than the GH6, it is even more noticeable with Natural or Cine-D. GH6 details look like smeared. It's obvious when you add sharpening in post, some details are gone.
It is because of the 3D noise reduction and mostly about the digital moire filter, according to Panasonic, "it eliminates the need for a low-pass filter and smooths fine details like hair and wires to minimize moiré patterns". Therefore If you want to keep the most details you need very sharp and bright lenses on the GH6 like the 25-50mm.
Still according to Panasonic : " Thanks to the new High Precision 3D Noise Reduction for video,the detection capability of still and moving parts has been advanced, making it possible to optimise noise reduction while minimising afterimages".
It is used even in Prores, I can see a bit more noise on Prores compared to H265 but there is still noise reduction going on because the noise still appears smoothed, skin tones also look smoothed and unnatural.
The GH6 noise performance is more or less the same than the G9 in photo so how the GH6 could be so much cleaner than the G9 in video without using noise reduction and fine details processing ? It is obvious even at low ISO when the DR BOOST is off.
Most people couldn't see the issue on the A7SIII and GH5S so sadly we will see more and more cameras with the same processing.
Hi Richard, I just upgraded my GH4 with a Ninja v, got the .265 update. Very happy with the results. Your video was so helpful. Thank you
Great video thanks. Keep it up
Thanks for watching! :)
Outstanding content, thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Why write in ProRes 422, if you can record in H.265 and then transcode the video to ProRes 422 through the media encoder program and only then edit ProRes 422 ?
Will the quality of such transcoded ProRes 422 be worse than ProRes 422 received directly in the camera?
Also, I didn't understand, if you write in ProRes 422, you need to write in a standard profile or in a vlog?
To counter your question, If you are going to transcode it to ProRes422, why record in H.265 in the beginning :) My point is, if you want to introduce ProRes422 to your workflow, you could simplify the workflow and minimise total storage space by just recording straight to ProRes422 at the beginning if possible
Also if you are using GH6, H.265 can only record in 420 as well, so image quality won't be quite as good as ProRes422 due to the more aggressive chroma sub-sampling
You need to pick your picture profile when recording ProRes422, ideally V-LOG to get maximum dynamic range.
@@TheRealRichardWong I see that the camera can shoot 4.2.2 in H.264. Does this mean that if I encode H.264 to ProRes422, I will get the same ProRes422 as when I shot it with a camera? I'm interested because I don't edit all videos, and most of the videos I don't edit at all or edit very little. Therefore, to save space, it is more logical to shoot in H.264 in 4.2.2.
@@TheRealRichardWong but I read articles that there is no point in shooting in 422 since all content distributors show movies/tv in 420
@@lnuponom2678 I haven't compare them myself so i can't answer for sure. but i would expect there would be very small difference between 10 bit H.264 422 compare to the ProRes422. If you don't edit much at all, just shoot in H.265 (or 264). But if you do a lot of editing, it is just easier to record straight as ProRes422 if possible, instead of having to transcode during post processing which takes up time and more space in your storage.
@@AlphaTroll showing being in 420 is irrelevant. All video platforms only
Support 420 in the first place. But it doesn’t make recording 422 and above less valuable. It’s like saying all SDR videos are 8 bit, therefore 10 bit video doesn’t matter. It’s all about manipulating the data you do have. Then exporting as if you recorded directly with that vision in mind (420 8 bit is 100% fine if 0 edits will be applied).
I had been using ANGELBIRD 4TB CF EXPRESS for Prores 5.7 k 30 fps in GH6 before the 2.0 firmware update july 5. Now after the update my card give error (cf express card exceeds 2 tb) . Hmm i did short vid of full record of little over 2hrs on this card dated before 2.0
Hmm that's no good. Have you tried do a low level format to the card using your camera? If yes I suggest report to Panasonic about it
Good video
Thank you
I was using 4Tb ANGELBIRD CF EXPRESS CARD UNTIL 2.0 firmware and now i cannot format or use the card. All i get is error(cf express exceeds 2tb)lumix said the firmware 2.0 did not address capacity as an answer. Card now is useless and now currently using 4tb raw ssd on the ninja. Thanks
oh that's no good. Was the card listed as compatible on their website previously?
No but it formatted and worked until the update . Although looking back record duration was a little over 2hrs and not sure the calculation of time is should record per file size. Assuming i should get 4hrs internal prores 5.7k 30 hq on 4tb.?. Thank you
This is one of the best explanation videos I’ve ever seen on UA-cam, any genre. The amount of details and real-world application along with analogies was perfect. I’m a photographer interested in video and I’ve seen about 10-15 videos already on file types, and I finally feel like I have a good idea of what will meet my needs the best. Thank you so much!
oh I'm glad to hear this video helped you Sean! Thank you for watching
Great breakdown and such a big help - love your detailed explanation for each codec. Appreciate you making this video!
Thanls for watching ❤️
Thanks a lot for this explanation, I bought a week ago ninja v mounted onto my S1. You speak with a really good English and pace for a French people like me, easily understandable, much appreciated
Thank you very much and i'm glad to hear the video helped :)
Thank you for your detailed explanation! I wish i seen this earlier. I just bought a z9 and i think i shot myself in the foot.
Hey there, thanks for watching, but the z9 is a great camera for both photo and video
If you have a 2018 MacBook Pro 512GB 16Gb ram Which is better and easy to edit ? the Apple Prores 422 or H.265 ?
hi there, sorry i'm not sure if the 2018 MBP has hardware decoding support for H.265 420 files, but i would guess it is still quite a bit faster/easier to edit ProRes422 files
@@TheRealRichardWong Thank you
*SUBSCRIBED!!!*
Thank you Howard!
song name?
The intro music was created by my friend for me. For the other background music, please check the video description
Wait... how did you edit Prores Raw in Davinci Resolve???
No I didn't :P I used Final Cut Pro for that
@@TheRealRichardWong ok. I'll have to rewatch but I thought the turtle card read "Davinci Resolve" when editing Prores Raw
@@TheRealRichardWong so, at 14:4 you show that you've applied noise reduction to your Prores Raw footage via Davinci Resolve. Was it compared into another format first?
From memory, I use Final Cut Pro to convert to ProRes4444 first
@@TheRealRichardWong do you find that it reduces the versatility of your footage? Thank you for reminding btw
Excellent video Richard. Even ProRes 422 is quite consuming and challenging for my SSD storage system on my M1 Mac Mini. My hope is with the rollout of the SSD external recording with the GH6 that ProRes LT will become available one day. It will be interesting to see what happens in the future. Does H264 422 recording have less banding than H265, or is H265 generally more efficient?
Hi David, thanks for watching. You mentioned it is challenging for your storage, do you mean the size? I'm curious to see what Panasonic will do with the SSD External recording. Not sure if we will see ProRes LT though as if they do that, they probably would implement that for internal storage instead?
I haven't compare H.264/H.265 this time, but H.265 is more compressed so file size is smaller but require more processing power to decode it. Also on the GH6, H.265 output is only 420.. if you want 422 it has to be H.264, or Prores 422
How does the panasonic gh6 behave in the rain, is it waterproof? Is it possible to shoot in the rain, under the jets of a fountain, in sea waves?
No it's not waterproof. I'm not aware of any mirrorless camera that is waterproof, but the GH6 is weatherproof and i've used it under rain many times no problem at all. But it is NOT waterproof, don't splash it with sea waves, the salt in sea water is very bad to camera (any camera). Don't purposely spray it with water too.
weely limited lmao
Excellent Richard. I am going to use pro res 4K for a while. I like being able to go Pixel to Pixel mode when needed. When in pro rest 5.7 you can't do that. What color profile do you use when not shooting Vlog? I have been doing well with Natural but have not tried the others. What do you think? Enjoyed every moment of this video. Great Job again.
hi @SUTV thanks a lot!
I use Natural too when not using V-LOG, i found it's easy to do colour grading easily to get the results i want. But I haven't really experiment with every single colour profile, just found it seems to work fine.
@@TheRealRichardWong Same here Richard. LOL I am going to do some testing with the others and if I find anything incredible I'll let you know. Thanks for getting back to me.
can you do a video on how you store your data? like you have 10 clips of 30 mins footage, but you will ever need 1 mins from each clips (i.e. 29 mins of each clips are useless rubbish) , what work flow is the best in keep the best quality of this 10 mins in total footage , yet be space efficient? Thanks
You could cut out the bit your want in your video editor and save it out to prores format.
great
Thanks for watching