Given that the alpha of Eleuthia specifically mentioned not to alter the human genome could an "increasingly chaotic manner" cause this? For example let's say Demeter and Artemis do begin to "fight back" maybe Eleuthia will respond in kind except working for humanity rather than against us.
Do you think with Hephaestus' inclination to take over AI and make them serve him mean he could potentially take over the other Sub-functions and make them aggressive? Or at least make them serve him similar to what he did with Cyan? It could make Hephaestus much more dangerous than Hades ever was if that is the case. Great video! Really made me think!
Two year old video :) Hephaestus never took over CYAN. He isolated her and took over her manufacturing facilities. Since Hephaestus' core programming was to run the Cauldrons, I suspect CYAN's manufacturing facilities were close enough for him to control them. AIs are indicated in the game as being unable to go against their core programming.
Which is why when we ask CYAN herself, she says that he forced her to go against her core programming every time she tried to contact anyone else. In my opinion,most of the sub- functions are either inactive or at least partially under HEPHAESTUS' control due to the fact that the robots they use in the terraforming system, like the Snapmaws of POSEIDON, are created and programmed by him. So yes,I think it's possible.
@@alyseleem2692 that’s an interesting thing to think about, Hephaestus now being top dog in places of Gaia, with Hades being an exile… makes you wonder if any of them were behind the Storms we see in the trailer for the sequel, or if their Hades’ doing.
@@commandercritic9036 Sorry for the short reply. Was busy. To elaborate: I personally don't believe HADES still has the power to cause any such phenomena, especially since he's technically been overriden. He isn't too much of a threat anymore, unless Sylens can find a way to reverse the effects of a Master Override. I personally think he'd be wise and keep him that way. A candidate I've heard of is Vast Silver,a terraforming AI predating GAIA,known for his role in the Clawback,as well as his failed attempts at freedom, which led to restrictions on AI development. Some say he remained at large,and is responsible for a part of our situation, at least.
Wow, this was a great video! Thanks for turning my incoherent rambling question into something really unique. And managing to give a more in depth analysis of the behavior of Gaia's subfunctions as a whole post-transmission. I'm definitely looking forward to the next installment!
Impressive video! Thank you for you hard work and dedication discussing the lore behind the HZD universe! I can’t wait for the next chapter and where Aloy’s adventures will take her...but for now an in-depth analysis of the story would do!
Would be cool if these subfunctions eventually took over machines that are related to their terraforming purposes. Perhaps some kind of war between the subfunctions.
What I want it a Machine that acts as the designated machine for each sub-function and fight said machine! Some Ideas could be Hades: Dragon or Hydra machine Poseidon: Whale machine Any others, guys?
I imagine Artemis would be a Stag, or Wolf, Demeter would be some form of Great Tree, and when I say Great Tree, I mean Avatar Last Air Bender Centre of the Swamp style, TREE. A whale for Poseidon is good, but I think Kraken would be better, something along the lines of a Storm Bird for Aether, only MUCH bigger. Eluthia would definitely be Humanoid, but not those shoddy things in the cradles, something MUCH more sophisticated. Minerva is tricky, but if I had to be pressed, I’d say either something similar to CYAN, or Humanoid like Eluthia. Now Apollo, poor Apollo… IF we do ever get the poor guy back, I’m thinking something Celestial, an orb like CYAN, but GRANDER, something to really fit with his name sake. Hephaestus would DEFINITELY be some kind of MEGA Fireclaw, and while I think a Dragon would be cool for Hades, it’s also a little cliche… personally, I think the Horus Titans or Metal Devils, as the Nora call them, are already PERFECT for Hades.
Another one checked off my list....I am keeping up. I love the picture in the thumbnail the frostclaw and fireclaw are badass and a pain in the ass when you need to take one down in ultra hard I think a video of the the fire/frost claw connection to the legendary bear that protects the mountain in Yellowstone.
Have i mentioned how much i love your videos? You're definitely my favourite channel on UA-cam. You present these topics with amazing coherency that's easy to follow, interesting and insightful. Do you think that Gaia can be re-built? From what we saw when Gaia destroyed herself, it seems like she also destroyed the infrastructure she was housed in. That would mean that machines would have to rebuild that structure before Gaia could be reactivated and there would need to be a backup of Gaia to re-install since no one currently living could re-build Gaia from code. If the sub-functions continue to break down and re-activating Gaia was the only way to save the new humans, how would Aloy accomplish this do you think and if she did, would Gaia be able to re-install Apollo? Personally i think she might be able to talk to Hephaestus either through Cyan or face to face like with Hades and maybe convince Hephaestus to help but that brings about another question - can the sub-functions talk? Do they have a voice without Gaia? Since they're not true AIs, would they even care or understand what we would be asking of them? So many questions lol. Looking forward to your next video! :D
In Gaia's message, she seemed convinced that the reinstantation of Dr. Sobeck could visits all of the other ZD complexes and that she'd be able to recreate the core of the system from these installations. It's not exactly clear how she's meant to do that and exactly how big the core would be. But that leaves me to believe that there was back-up of Gaia saved elsewhere and the material needed to create A.Is cores should be still available. From there, I imagine that the newly reminted Gaia would send Aloy on a quest to reboot the subfunctions to like their launch day versions or something like that. And reconnect each one so she can be made whole again. Elisabet had talked about the beauty of the project as it could start from their work and build itself. So once control on the rogue functions is reasserted, Gaia would probably be able to use Hephaestus to create machines that would rebuild Gaia prime to its former glory and bring the full system back under control. Of course, that still leave the problem of Faro having purged Apollo from the systems and with it the key to humans gaining the full control of the system. It'll be interesting to see how they tackle that. To see if Aloy being a Light Seeker clone of Dr. Sobeck, if she'll be able to take control of it all.
In one of the only sketchy moments of this game we see in the end credits, Hades fly through the air and get captured by Sylan... So, whatever that was, Gaia should be able to do the same. Fly through the air to some other facility.
@@tobypease7710 It's been suggested that Sylens built his lance to do specifically that and that is why he gave it to Aloy. It was a transmitter to send Hades to the receiver lantern he had built.
This game did a masterful job of keeping me hooked and hungry to find answers. Starting the game not knowing where you came from, why are robot's killing humans, why are they becoming more dangerous, where do they come from? To finally get drip fed enough info until you get to the Faro building and the Zero dawn labs. I was blow away with how much was in the story, and most of all: It made sense, it was logical. Did not have to suspend my disbelief because this could happen if mankind ever does become successful at creating true AI for war and death.
I think Apollo's engineer probably just snuck those poems into the code, much like the earliest examples of easter eggs in video games, where you could find a hidden room with a designer's name being displayed (like in the Atari game Adventure)
This was such an awesome and in-depth video. I was going through my 8th play through when I came across an idea for a video, but I forgot hahaha. Anyways, thanks for another great video!
I'm not sure if you're paying attention to the comments here but Hades definitely fits the definition of an AI. It utilizes novel methods which don't seem to be part of its original programming to fulfill its primary programmed purpose.
I'm quite annoyed by the fact that the subfunctions can transfer themeselves somewhere but not GAIA. I mean she's a true AI, She can just transmit herself to other facilities and/or "housing units" much like her subfunctions can do. I'm just sad that She "died" for the sake of life when in fact she have that option but decided not to use it. Or perhaps I miss something of paramount importance before HADES freed them all.
What I think is that GAIA could have turned off the self-destruct at any time up until it exploded, and she was worried that HADES would return, turn off the self-destruct, and use the terraforming system to end life on Earth. In my mind, she chose to sacrifice herself to ensure this couldn't happen by protecting GAIA Prime until it exploded with her inside. She couldn't fend HADES off well or for very long, HADES was designed specifically to undermine her and take control, but with the self-destruct she only had to counteract him for a few moments. Her highest purpose is the protection of life above all other things, so of course she would sacrifice herself to protect that.
Her original plan was to destroy Hades by means of destroying herself. To my understanding she first activated her self destruct, which should have led to her and all subfunctions, including Hades, being destroyed. Only as a reaction to that, Hades sent a virus to sever himself and the other subfunctions from GAIA to avoid his own destruction, though from what I understand the release of all the other subfunctions was more of an accidental side effect. Since she could not have had the ability to destroy Hades alone (that would have made Hades pointless, since she had just destroyed him, the second it would have tried to unseat her, to complete his function) her only way to permanently disable Hades, was to destroy the entire system, including herself. The fact that the other functions are subfunctions, means that they are a part of GAIA, had she transferred herself to another facility, that would have just meant taking all the subfunctions with her. (It is kind of like the Internet Explorer is a part of Windows, whether we want it or not, the system could not remove it even if it wanted. As far as I know, even the administrator can not remove the Explorer from the system, but just mark the file a backup file, so it will no longer be in use. The only entity to be able to remove it that, would be a Windows software developer. (In this analogy Windows is GAIA including all subfunctions, the Internet Explorer is Hades and the Windows software developer is an Alpha.))
the thing that gaia destroyed was its own core, it had no where to transfer too because it was destroying itself, and it was hoping to take the sub functions with it although mainly just hades the rest were colateral and wasnt expecting them to be able to remove themselves from its core, although like aloy mention repairig gaia may still be on the table as long as hades is fully destroredd first so it cant take controll over the system
As a new player I have a theory that Ted Faro is somehow alive or a clone of his is still alive and responsible for the whole mess... Gaias destruction and the subroutines being free and setting upon the world... He has omega override access codes. His ultimate fate is not revealed in the game and might be shed light on, in part 2.... Is there any information to corroborate this?
got an odd comment/suggestion. I saw a video where someone was climbing the limbs of a Horus. And I know there was that one Aloy ran into where they woke the second deathbringer. There were scaffolding all over the place. Can that be climbed? Can Aloy get close to the heart of one of those for a close-up look?
I was replaying ZD again and went back to talk to CYAN after finishing all my side quests and she says that whatever subfunction that's in charge of plants probably made the metal flowers, so def DEMETER
Why didn't Hephaestus create new machines for reverse terraforming the biosphere? Why risk using the Faro robots for reverse terraforming inspite of knowing that if they went out of control, it would take another 50 years to create the disable codes?
Hephaestus wasn't the one trying to reverse the terraforming, that was Hades. Hephaestus' only concern seems to be with his machine being destroyed and needing to retaliate to keep them safe. Hades seem to have not created new machines for it, because he lost control of Gaia prime and thus couldn't order Hephaestus to create such machines. So it resorted to what it knew had worked in the past.
I always see aloy as a child, and only realized shes a woman when varl ,erend and avad tried making advances on her, well tried coz seems aloy is like elizabeth a loner.
I wonder what MINERVA is up to & whether she could be a potential ally. All the subordinate functions were cut off from the terraforming system when GAIA destroyed the Prime facility, meaning she may not be connected to the towers anymore (even HEPHAESTUS was cut off; the logs you get from overriding cauldrons refer to him as an intrusion, implying he had to force his way back in to those systems after his escape). If MINERVA finds out that HADES not only tried to undo everything she existed for, but used her own towers in doing so, her core programing could drive her to strike back. On the antagonist side though, her programing might drive her to hack Zero Dawn, potentially viewing its machines as equivalent to the Swarm. HEPHAESTUS has made them aggressive and they do engage in biomass conversion, likely even more so now due to increased production and certain units weaponizing blaze. Add that together with HADES and his corrupted army, and MINERVA could reasonably make the assumption that ZD machines are as much of a threat as the Chariots were, & begin working towards deactivating them. Which would only cause the teraforming system to break down faster, something her programing wouldn't direct her to care about.
That’s a scary thought, and not entirely outside the realm of possibility. I certainly wouldn’t mind meeting more of the Subordinate Functions, and in a more diplomatic manner, much like what we got with CYAN.
I think Minerva is active. In the frozen wilds Hephaestus built towers to protect his machines from being overridden. This didn't immediately happen with Gaia's destruction but after Hades tried to use the spire to reactivate the Faro robots. When Aloy destroyed Hades the awakened Minerva sent a signal to Hephaestus alerting the AI of the danger that Hades posed to the terraforming process. Prior to this I don't think Minerva was aware of Hades and had no need to be active after escaping from Gaia. The question is how much is Minerva willingly cooperating with Hephaestus.
The mission at the spire canonically happens LAST, as the save you re load when going back to the game, is just BEFORE the final battle, so anything else that happens while YOU are in control happens BEFORE the final battle. Also, those towers that Hephaestus makes are more to repair his machines, rather than prevent them from being controlled, and there’s no sign of Hades up in the Cut anyway, the cyber warfare protection was probably a side bonus for Hephaestus and he likely made them himself without Minerva.
If Hades' plan at the Spire succeeded, do you suppose Minerva would once again fulfill her purpose? Of course, it would ultimately be pointless... Also, what hardware actually houses the sub-functions post-explosion? I find it unlikely every function escaped to a Horus. Maybe the cauldrons? But thanks for a great video!
To be fair we don't really know much about where the functions escaped to, sure we know that Hades went to a Horus core, but not any of the others. I think they would have gone in priority to anything that help their main purpose. Cauldrons, other ZD facilities that might have been used in their initial coding, any number of possible bunkers with sufficient data storage that were sealed on Zero Day, but has since then become open and exposed for any number of reasons. And which has open network still working despite the lack of humans. Military bases, other high tech industries. It's hard to know exactly what was left intact and hidden away by the time Minerva was done and broadcasting the deactivation code. I'm pretty sure that if the unleashed Minerva had eventually learned of the Faro Swarm's reactivation, she would have actively worked toward broadcasting the deactivation code again. Long as that might take to do solo. Quick if they don't need to be recalculated each time. Could have lead to a sort of ping pong game between Hades and Minerva. Indeed, in a more and more chaotic manner as Gaia's message said.
Love your videos !, what if horizon zero dawn 2 will be sold in form of a downloable content ?, so the already existed world will be further more expanded, i want your thoughts about this, keep making quality lores 🖒.
Abimanyu Rizky A new world with the old one still apart of it would be REALLY cool but I can see a few reasons why that wouldn't happen. The sequel wouldn't sell as well if it was only available for download. I also think Guerilla would prefer to explore a completely new part of the post apocalyptic world, possibly with tribes we havn't seen or heard all that much about yet. That doesn't mean we won't see Carja, Nora or any of the other tribes or familiar locations in the sequel though. I'm sure we will. But I don't think they're gonna do like with the Frozen Wilds dlc where they just attatched a new piece of land
As always, an interesting video. Given that algorithms are now complex enough and capable of learning to the point where they can beat world class masters of Go, what exactly is an AI vs. an algorithm? The sub-functions, if they are as complex as we are led to believe, are probably a lot closer to being AIs. I am willing to bet that they are capable of learning and adapting- such as Hephaestus creating better and more lethal combat class machines. Without GAIA as the guiding element, it would be interesting to imagine what the sub-functions are getting up to now that they're released. It think they would carry out their prime directives without restraint. In the forbidden west glyph, it mentions 'youths as pale as ash, all wearing the same face', and that could mean many things, such as the same mask, but wouldn't it be wild if Eleuthia somehow was able to reactivate a cradle and start cloning? I know it's probably unlikely but this video has gotten me thinking about wild theories...
I think the difference between the AIs and Gaia is, that the algorhythmss are indeed very capable but only where it concerns their own funtion/purpose. They know how to execute their goal but aren't able to see the bigger picture the way Gaia can. Gaia makes the final choices because she can coordinate the subfunctions with what the system currently needs, decide that one subfunction currently has less priority or should slow down for a while in order for another to do a better job. E.g. she could tell Hephaestos to produce less machines if there are too many so they don't overcrowd the lands and make the humans feel threatened or disturbed. The subfunctions wouldn't make such carefully weighed decisions, wouldn't take things as morality and special circumstances into account. Hephaestos creates more hostile machines to protect them from humans and constantly adapts and learns how to improve them. This is his function and the thrives in it: to develop machines that have whatever function is necessary to protect the environment (in this case machines that protect the other machines). What Hephaestos can't do is take into account that if he produces more than is necessary the hostile machines could eventually threaten the survival of the humans. Or that it would make the humans scared and threatened and hunt the machines even more. These are things outside of his function so they are not in his algorhythm. This is why he and the other subfunctions are not a true AI since they can't comprehend all possibilities, only their designated parts. Your theory about Eleuthia sounds super cool. I also hope she might try to mess with the DNA to try and make it stronger, creating the chaos Gaia spoke about. The subfunctions not working together but somewhat against each other.
Slight disagreement. The Subordinate Functions are now full AIs. You seemed unclear on that. Also, AIs cannot go against their core programming, but can interpret it. This includes Vast Silver, which is a climate-intervention AI. Hephaestus is not ignorant of its role in the terraforming process, it is stated that it wants to prevent humans hunting animals, but it does not want to eliminate humans entirely.
My personal theory is that the sub-functions will return in the sequel, helping Aloy with leveling up, upgrading a steed etc (Hephaestus can upgrade and modify Aloy’s steed, Eleuthia can bring online gameplay, Demeter can upgrade your health and selling potions, etc)
I was all for your comment, then read the rest of it. Don’t get me wrong, would be great to meet some of the other Subordinate Functions, and maybe have them help, but Hephaestus is a straight up NO, he’s hostile towards humanity, and while it MAY be possible to talk to him, and reason with him, it’s unlikely he would help Aloy, after what happened in the Frozen Wilds. Also, keep my open world, sci-fy fantasy game SINGLE PLAYER please, we have enough online gaming crap as is, we don’t want it messing THIS franchise up, thank you very much 😤.
So,Hades was struck again by the same type of signal..someone wants really to start all over again..?..lol,but if it's a same signal like for a chariot line,why would Ted make his robots self aware? Here is missing a big plot of the story,and that between Ted and Liz...
@barbarian zg: My theory is that it was Ted that sent that signal that effed Gaia up and her subfunctions as he was frightened of her too, he argued with Elizabet over her creation and said what if it run amok. So its possible that he messed her up as he was a nutcase as well as deleting Apollo's database of human knowledge, culture and history because again he was a nutcase and an arsehole. I think after Hades heard about what humanity was like now-no thanks to Ted, it still saw the new ones as bad with wars etc, and since its primary function was to wipe out the world it chose to do that. It also knew that humans were now basically naive tribal based factions so it knew, from Sylens that humanity was easier to manipulate, particularly since many were pagan like in their beliefs.
@@jane1975 I hate to debunk someone who clearly enjoys the game, but unless Ted was cloning himself, over and over, he was LONG dead by the time of the transmission that caused Hades to try and take over the Terraforming system and restart it. The transmission occurs roughly 20 years before the start of the game, just before Aloy’s birth basically, in fact, the whole event is what CAUSES Aloy’s birth. Before Hades can take control of the Terraforming system, Gaia initiates a self destruct, to destroy both herself and Hades. In response, Hades dissolves the code shackles that bind it, and inadvertently frees the OTHER subordinate functions as well, which, like Hades, had all gained self awareness thanks to the transmission. Hades and the other subordinate functions then escape, before Gaia Prime self destructs. Just before all that happens however, Gaia orders a nearby Eluthia facility, the one under All-Mother Mountain, to make a clone of Elisabet Sobek, also known as, Aloy. She does this, so that the NEW Elisabet can rebuild the Terraforming system… this is the event that leads to Aloy’s birth. Now just to be clear, Ted Faro and the rest of the survivors of the Faro Plague, went underground in bunkers, in the mid to late 2000’s, but these would only sustain them so long. At most, the last survivors lived until the year 2100, maybe a little beyond that, depending on supplies. Regardless, by the time the game starts, we are now in the 31st century, meaning it is at LEAST the year 3000 if not more. Again, unless Ted has been cloning himself CONTINUOUSLY, he is LONG dead, which is a shame, cause I REALLY wanted Aloy to punch that bastard 😩.
Wait untill Demeter discovers that the Oseram are burning down entire forests to make some sparks
judging by the sequel trailer, it already did...
@@marty2129guess I predicted correctly lol
technically it would know world wide if this was a problem, it may take preventative measures at selected locations but as a whole....
Demeter : *winter is coming*
Eleuthia: I ran out of human zygotes. How do I make more humans? 🤔
Eleuthia starts the first post ZD dating service.
I've just got huge GLADOS vibes now.
'I know how humans make more humans, but that requires you to have a human, which I hope someone got fired over'
I fucking love this
I liked this years ago because I laughed. I’m leaving this comment so you know that years later it still makes me laugh
She probably taught the first humans how to "do it"
I think creating a clone of Ted Faro is the most evil thing that Eleuthia can do
Given that the alpha of Eleuthia specifically mentioned not to alter the human genome could an "increasingly chaotic manner" cause this? For example let's say Demeter and Artemis do begin to "fight back" maybe Eleuthia will respond in kind except working for humanity rather than against us.
rereturn too bad it's dead
Yeah I think Eluthia is inactive
@@iamthefirstandonlycheesecake no it isn’t. It escaped along with the rest of the subordinate functions
@@lochness5524 inactive as in it can’t make any more humans not that it doesn’t function
@@iamthefirstandonlycheesecake no, I mean that the ai itself is functioning, not the facilities it operated
I have a question,
After the end Boss battle when Aloy stabs the sphere where Hades was located. Is there a video explaining what is going on there?
The master override interacts with Aloy's focus creating a hologram interface to allow her to purge Hades
This man predicted Demeter's wrath in Forbidden West 2 years ago
It might not be Demeter directly going haywire. It could be another subfunction or AI has hijacked Demeter.
He really did lol
Do you think with Hephaestus' inclination to take over AI and make them serve him mean he could potentially take over the other Sub-functions and make them aggressive? Or at least make them serve him similar to what he did with Cyan? It could make Hephaestus much more dangerous than Hades ever was if that is the case. Great video! Really made me think!
Two year old video :)
Hephaestus never took over CYAN. He isolated her and took over her manufacturing facilities. Since Hephaestus' core programming was to run the Cauldrons, I suspect CYAN's manufacturing facilities were close enough for him to control them. AIs are indicated in the game as being unable to go against their core programming.
Which is why when we ask CYAN herself, she says that he forced her to go against her core programming every time she tried to contact anyone else. In my opinion,most of the sub- functions are either inactive or at least partially under HEPHAESTUS' control due to the fact that the robots they use in the terraforming system, like the Snapmaws of POSEIDON, are created and programmed by him. So yes,I think it's possible.
@@alyseleem2692 that’s an interesting thing to think about, Hephaestus now being top dog in places of Gaia, with Hades being an exile… makes you wonder if any of them were behind the Storms we see in the trailer for the sequel, or if their Hades’ doing.
@@commandercritic9036Maybe VS
@@commandercritic9036 Sorry for the short reply. Was busy.
To elaborate:
I personally don't believe HADES still has the power to cause any such phenomena, especially since he's technically been overriden. He isn't too much of a threat anymore, unless Sylens can find a way to reverse the effects of a Master Override. I personally think he'd be wise and keep him that way.
A candidate I've heard of is Vast Silver,a terraforming AI predating GAIA,known for his role in the Clawback,as well as his failed attempts at freedom, which led to restrictions on AI development.
Some say he remained at large,and is responsible for a part of our situation, at least.
i feel sad when appolo is wiped out, all that knowledge.. gone!
Not gone anymore 😉
Wow, this was a great video! Thanks for turning my incoherent rambling question into something really unique. And managing to give a more in depth analysis of the behavior of Gaia's subfunctions as a whole post-transmission. I'm definitely looking forward to the next installment!
Lol no worries Nick, glad you enjoyed it!
Random Side Quest PLZ do a Horizon zero dawn timeline!
Working on it :) it's taking a lot of time 😅
Cooool🖒🖒🖒🖒🖒
Thanks random i dont mind the wait☺☺☺☺
Impressive video! Thank you for you hard work and dedication discussing the lore behind the HZD universe! I can’t wait for the next chapter and where Aloy’s adventures will take her...but for now an in-depth analysis of the story would do!
Video: *talks about Apollo*
Me: Dang it, Faro!
Hephaestus: Why do you keep destroying my things
Aloy in second game: takes down a Thunder Tusk
Hephaestus: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@commandercritic9036 Tremortusk*
@@EclecticallyEccentric in the words of Omi
THAT TOO!!!!!!
As always, very well done video, please consider talking about Vast Silver and other pre-Zero Dawn AI
Would be cool if these subfunctions eventually took over machines that are related to their terraforming purposes. Perhaps some kind of war between the subfunctions.
What I want it a Machine that acts as the designated machine for each sub-function and fight said machine!
Some Ideas could be
Hades: Dragon or Hydra machine
Poseidon: Whale machine
Any others, guys?
Eleuthia would most likely have been those humanoid machines we saw in the cradle facility, or what’s left of them
@@lochness5524 that would be cool! Eleuthia could be like a robot that would try to mimic humanity, or even think it *is* human
I imagine Artemis would be a Stag, or Wolf, Demeter would be some form of Great Tree, and when I say Great Tree, I mean Avatar Last Air Bender Centre of the Swamp style, TREE. A whale for Poseidon is good, but I think Kraken would be better, something along the lines of a Storm Bird for Aether, only MUCH bigger. Eluthia would definitely be Humanoid, but not those shoddy things in the cradles, something MUCH more sophisticated.
Minerva is tricky, but if I had to be pressed, I’d say either something similar to CYAN, or Humanoid like Eluthia.
Now Apollo, poor Apollo… IF we do ever get the poor guy back, I’m thinking something Celestial, an orb like CYAN, but GRANDER, something to really fit with his name sake. Hephaestus would DEFINITELY be some kind of MEGA Fireclaw, and while I think a Dragon would be cool for Hades, it’s also a little cliche… personally, I think the Horus Titans or Metal Devils, as the Nora call them, are already PERFECT for Hades.
Another one checked off my list....I am keeping up.
I love the picture in the thumbnail the frostclaw and fireclaw are badass and a pain in the ass when you need to take one down in ultra hard
I think a video of the the fire/frost claw connection to the legendary bear that protects the mountain in Yellowstone.
I stopped playing this game months ago, but I still keep watching your videos because they're so good and informative!
Have i mentioned how much i love your videos? You're definitely my favourite channel on UA-cam. You present these topics with amazing coherency that's easy to follow, interesting and insightful.
Do you think that Gaia can be re-built? From what we saw when Gaia destroyed herself, it seems like she also destroyed the infrastructure she was housed in. That would mean that machines would have to rebuild that structure before Gaia could be reactivated and there would need to be a backup of Gaia to re-install since no one currently living could re-build Gaia from code. If the sub-functions continue to break down and re-activating Gaia was the only way to save the new humans, how would Aloy accomplish this do you think and if she did, would Gaia be able to re-install Apollo?
Personally i think she might be able to talk to Hephaestus either through Cyan or face to face like with Hades and maybe convince Hephaestus to help but that brings about another question - can the sub-functions talk? Do they have a voice without Gaia? Since they're not true AIs, would they even care or understand what we would be asking of them?
So many questions lol. Looking forward to your next video! :D
In Gaia's message, she seemed convinced that the reinstantation of Dr. Sobeck could visits all of the other ZD complexes and that she'd be able to recreate the core of the system from these installations. It's not exactly clear how she's meant to do that and exactly how big the core would be. But that leaves me to believe that there was back-up of Gaia saved elsewhere and the material needed to create A.Is cores should be still available. From there, I imagine that the newly reminted Gaia would send Aloy on a quest to reboot the subfunctions to like their launch day versions or something like that. And reconnect each one so she can be made whole again.
Elisabet had talked about the beauty of the project as it could start from their work and build itself. So once control on the rogue functions is reasserted, Gaia would probably be able to use Hephaestus to create machines that would rebuild Gaia prime to its former glory and bring the full system back under control. Of course, that still leave the problem of Faro having purged Apollo from the systems and with it the key to humans gaining the full control of the system. It'll be interesting to see how they tackle that. To see if Aloy being a Light Seeker clone of Dr. Sobeck, if she'll be able to take control of it all.
In one of the only sketchy moments of this game we see in the end credits, Hades fly through the air and get captured by Sylan... So, whatever that was, Gaia should be able to do the same. Fly through the air to some other facility.
@@tobypease7710 It's been suggested that Sylens built his lance to do specifically that and that is why he gave it to Aloy. It was a transmitter to send Hades to the receiver lantern he had built.
After seeing this I have a feeling that the Oseram are going to get royally fucked by Demeter, with all the deforesting they do, great video again
This game did a masterful job of keeping me hooked and hungry to find answers. Starting the game not knowing where you came from, why are robot's killing humans, why are they becoming more dangerous, where do they come from?
To finally get drip fed enough info until you get to the Faro building and the Zero dawn labs. I was blow away with how much was in the story, and most of all: It made sense, it was logical. Did not have to suspend my disbelief because this could happen if mankind ever does become successful at creating true AI for war and death.
I feel that Demeter is streaming an existing Apollo, being that the metal flowers each contain a poem and that's sort of Apollo's thing.
I think Apollo's engineer probably just snuck those poems into the code, much like the earliest examples of easter eggs in video games, where you could find a hidden room with a designer's name being displayed (like in the Atari game Adventure)
Actually, it seems a lot more simple.
DEMETER'S Alpha was a lover of poetry.
This was such an awesome and in-depth video. I was going through my 8th play through when I came across an idea for a video, but I forgot hahaha.
Anyways, thanks for another great video!
I'm not sure if you're paying attention to the comments here but Hades definitely fits the definition of an AI. It utilizes novel methods which don't seem to be part of its original programming to fulfill its primary programmed purpose.
I'm quite annoyed by the fact that the subfunctions can transfer themeselves somewhere but not GAIA. I mean she's a true AI, She can just transmit herself to other facilities and/or "housing units" much like her subfunctions can do.
I'm just sad that She "died" for the sake of life when in fact she have that option but decided not to use it. Or perhaps I miss something of paramount importance before HADES freed them all.
What I think is that GAIA could have turned off the self-destruct at any time up until it exploded, and she was worried that HADES would return, turn off the self-destruct, and use the terraforming system to end life on Earth.
In my mind, she chose to sacrifice herself to ensure this couldn't happen by protecting GAIA Prime until it exploded with her inside.
She couldn't fend HADES off well or for very long, HADES was designed specifically to undermine her and take control, but with the self-destruct she only had to counteract him for a few moments.
Her highest purpose is the protection of life above all other things, so of course she would sacrifice herself to protect that.
Her original plan was to destroy Hades by means of destroying herself. To my understanding she first activated her self destruct, which should have led to her and all subfunctions, including Hades, being destroyed. Only as a reaction to that, Hades sent a virus to sever himself and the other subfunctions from GAIA to avoid his own destruction, though from what I understand the release of all the other subfunctions was more of an accidental side effect.
Since she could not have had the ability to destroy Hades alone (that would have made Hades pointless, since she had just destroyed him, the second it would have tried to unseat her, to complete his function) her only way to permanently disable Hades, was to destroy the entire system, including herself.
The fact that the other functions are subfunctions, means that they are a part of GAIA, had she transferred herself to another facility, that would have just meant taking all the subfunctions with her.
(It is kind of like the Internet Explorer is a part of Windows, whether we want it or not, the system could not remove it even if it wanted. As far as I know, even the administrator can not remove the Explorer from the system, but just mark the file a backup file, so it will no longer be in use. The only entity to be able to remove it that, would be a Windows software developer. (In this analogy Windows is GAIA including all subfunctions, the Internet Explorer is Hades and the Windows software developer is an Alpha.))
the thing that gaia destroyed was its own core, it had no where to transfer too because it was destroying itself, and it was hoping to take the sub functions with it although mainly just hades the rest were colateral and wasnt expecting them to be able to remove themselves from its core, although like aloy mention repairig gaia may still be on the table as long as hades is fully destroredd first so it cant take controll over the system
As a new player I have a theory that Ted Faro is somehow alive or a clone of his is still alive and responsible for the whole mess... Gaias destruction and the subroutines being free and setting upon the world... He has omega override access codes. His ultimate fate is not revealed in the game and might be shed light on, in part 2.... Is there any information to corroborate this?
got an odd comment/suggestion. I saw a video where someone was climbing the limbs of a Horus. And I know there was that one Aloy ran into where they woke the second deathbringer. There were scaffolding all over the place. Can that be climbed? Can Aloy get close to the heart of one of those for a close-up look?
I was replaying ZD again and went back to talk to CYAN after finishing all my side quests and she says that whatever subfunction that's in charge of plants probably made the metal flowers, so def DEMETER
Why didn't Hephaestus create new machines for reverse terraforming the biosphere? Why risk using the Faro robots for reverse terraforming inspite of knowing that if they went out of control, it would take another 50 years to create the disable codes?
Hephaestus wasn't the one trying to reverse the terraforming, that was Hades. Hephaestus' only concern seems to be with his machine being destroyed and needing to retaliate to keep them safe. Hades seem to have not created new machines for it, because he lost control of Gaia prime and thus couldn't order Hephaestus to create such machines. So it resorted to what it knew had worked in the past.
I always see aloy as a child, and only realized shes a woman when varl ,erend and avad tried making advances on her, well tried coz seems aloy is like elizabeth a loner.
Indeed....
She's grown up 🥲
I wonder what MINERVA is up to & whether she could be a potential ally. All the subordinate functions were cut off from the terraforming system when GAIA destroyed the Prime facility, meaning she may not be connected to the towers anymore (even HEPHAESTUS was cut off; the logs you get from overriding cauldrons refer to him as an intrusion, implying he had to force his way back in to those systems after his escape). If MINERVA finds out that HADES not only tried to undo everything she existed for, but used her own towers in doing so, her core programing could drive her to strike back. On the antagonist side though, her programing might drive her to hack Zero Dawn, potentially viewing its machines as equivalent to the Swarm. HEPHAESTUS has made them aggressive and they do engage in biomass conversion, likely even more so now due to increased production and certain units weaponizing blaze. Add that together with HADES and his corrupted army, and MINERVA could reasonably make the assumption that ZD machines are as much of a threat as the Chariots were, & begin working towards deactivating them. Which would only cause the teraforming system to break down faster, something her programing wouldn't direct her to care about.
That’s a scary thought, and not entirely outside the realm of possibility. I certainly wouldn’t mind meeting more of the Subordinate Functions, and in a more diplomatic manner, much like what we got with CYAN.
I think Minerva is active. In the frozen wilds Hephaestus built towers to protect his machines from being overridden. This didn't immediately happen with Gaia's destruction but after Hades tried to use the spire to reactivate the Faro robots. When Aloy destroyed Hades the awakened Minerva sent a signal to Hephaestus alerting the AI of the danger that Hades posed to the terraforming process. Prior to this I don't think Minerva was aware of Hades and had no need to be active after escaping from Gaia. The question is how much is Minerva willingly cooperating with Hephaestus.
The mission at the spire canonically happens LAST, as the save you re load when going back to the game, is just BEFORE the final battle, so anything else that happens while YOU are in control happens BEFORE the final battle. Also, those towers that Hephaestus makes are more to repair his machines, rather than prevent them from being controlled, and there’s no sign of Hades up in the Cut anyway, the cyber warfare protection was probably a side bonus for Hephaestus and he likely made them himself without Minerva.
I would like to know why Rost was an outcast
Check out the 12 Outlanders Vid, think you'll found what your looking for 😁
So, how about the quest A moment´s peace?
Hoo boy,...
You met CYAN, buddy?
If you did,you probably know all you need to know...
These Oseram can be stupid,sometimes.....
Those 3d stills are amazing.
If Hades' plan at the Spire succeeded, do you suppose Minerva would once again fulfill her purpose? Of course, it would ultimately be pointless... Also, what hardware actually houses the sub-functions post-explosion? I find it unlikely every function escaped to a Horus. Maybe the cauldrons? But thanks for a great video!
To be fair we don't really know much about where the functions escaped to, sure we know that Hades went to a Horus core, but not any of the others. I think they would have gone in priority to anything that help their main purpose. Cauldrons, other ZD facilities that might have been used in their initial coding, any number of possible bunkers with sufficient data storage that were sealed on Zero Day, but has since then become open and exposed for any number of reasons. And which has open network still working despite the lack of humans. Military bases, other high tech industries.
It's hard to know exactly what was left intact and hidden away by the time Minerva was done and broadcasting the deactivation code. I'm pretty sure that if the unleashed Minerva had eventually learned of the Faro Swarm's reactivation, she would have actively worked toward broadcasting the deactivation code again. Long as that might take to do solo. Quick if they don't need to be recalculated each time. Could have lead to a sort of ping pong game between Hades and Minerva. Indeed, in a more and more chaotic manner as Gaia's message said.
Love your videos !, what if horizon zero dawn 2 will be sold in form of
a downloable content ?, so the already existed world will be further more expanded, i want your thoughts about this, keep making quality lores 🖒.
Abimanyu Rizky A new world with the old one still apart of it would be REALLY cool but I can see a few reasons why that wouldn't happen.
The sequel wouldn't sell as well if it was only available for download. I also think Guerilla would prefer to explore a completely new part of the post apocalyptic world, possibly with tribes we havn't seen or heard all that much about yet. That doesn't mean we won't see Carja, Nora or any of the other tribes or familiar locations in the sequel though. I'm sure we will. But I don't think they're gonna do like with the Frozen Wilds dlc where they just attatched a new piece of land
I feel like after seeing this that the plot of HFW is going to tie into aether causing the super storms to a degree
amazing video dude
As always, an interesting video. Given that algorithms are now complex enough and capable of learning to the point where they can beat world class masters of Go, what exactly is an AI vs. an algorithm? The sub-functions, if they are as complex as we are led to believe, are probably a lot closer to being AIs. I am willing to bet that they are capable of learning and adapting- such as Hephaestus creating better and more lethal combat class machines.
Without GAIA as the guiding element, it would be interesting to imagine what the sub-functions are getting up to now that they're released. It think they would carry out their prime directives without restraint. In the forbidden west glyph, it mentions 'youths as pale as ash, all wearing the same face', and that could mean many things, such as the same mask, but wouldn't it be wild if Eleuthia somehow was able to reactivate a cradle and start cloning? I know it's probably unlikely but this video has gotten me thinking about wild theories...
I think the difference between the AIs and Gaia is, that the algorhythmss are indeed very capable but only where it concerns their own funtion/purpose. They know how to execute their goal but aren't able to see the bigger picture the way Gaia can. Gaia makes the final choices because she can coordinate the subfunctions with what the system currently needs, decide that one subfunction currently has less priority or should slow down for a while in order for another to do a better job. E.g. she could tell Hephaestos to produce less machines if there are too many so they don't overcrowd the lands and make the humans feel threatened or disturbed. The subfunctions wouldn't make such carefully weighed decisions, wouldn't take things as morality and special circumstances into account. Hephaestos creates more hostile machines to protect them from humans and constantly adapts and learns how to improve them. This is his function and the thrives in it: to develop machines that have whatever function is necessary to protect the environment (in this case machines that protect the other machines). What Hephaestos can't do is take into account that if he produces more than is necessary the hostile machines could eventually threaten the survival of the humans. Or that it would make the humans scared and threatened and hunt the machines even more. These are things outside of his function so they are not in his algorhythm. This is why he and the other subfunctions are not a true AI since they can't comprehend all possibilities, only their designated parts.
Your theory about Eleuthia sounds super cool. I also hope she might try to mess with the DNA to try and make it stronger, creating the chaos Gaia spoke about. The subfunctions not working together but somewhat against each other.
Slight disagreement. The Subordinate Functions are now full AIs. You seemed unclear on that. Also, AIs cannot go against their core programming, but can interpret it. This includes Vast Silver, which is a climate-intervention AI. Hephaestus is not ignorant of its role in the terraforming process, it is stated that it wants to prevent humans hunting animals, but it does not want to eliminate humans entirely.
My personal theory is that the sub-functions will return in the sequel, helping Aloy with leveling up, upgrading a steed etc (Hephaestus can upgrade and modify Aloy’s steed, Eleuthia can bring online gameplay, Demeter can upgrade your health and selling potions, etc)
I was all for your comment, then read the rest of it.
Don’t get me wrong, would be great to meet some of the other Subordinate Functions, and maybe have them help, but Hephaestus is a straight up NO, he’s hostile towards humanity, and while it MAY be possible to talk to him, and reason with him, it’s unlikely he would help Aloy, after what happened in the Frozen Wilds. Also, keep my open world, sci-fy fantasy game SINGLE PLAYER please, we have enough online gaming crap as is, we don’t want it messing THIS franchise up, thank you very much 😤.
Great video. 😁👍🏻
So,Hades was struck again by the same type of signal..someone wants really to start all over again..?..lol,but if it's a same signal like for a chariot line,why would Ted make his robots self aware? Here is missing a big plot of the story,and that between Ted and Liz...
@barbarian zg: My theory is that it was Ted that sent that signal that effed Gaia up and her subfunctions as he was frightened of her too, he argued with Elizabet over her creation and said what if it run amok. So its possible that he messed her up as he was a nutcase as well as deleting Apollo's database of human knowledge, culture and history because again he was a nutcase and an arsehole. I think after Hades heard about what humanity was like now-no thanks to Ted, it still saw the new ones as bad with wars etc, and since its primary function was to wipe out the world it chose to do that. It also knew that humans were now basically naive tribal based factions so it knew, from Sylens that humanity was easier to manipulate, particularly since many were pagan like in their beliefs.
@@jane1975 I hate to debunk someone who clearly enjoys the game, but unless Ted was cloning himself, over and over, he was LONG dead by the time of the transmission that caused Hades to try and take over the Terraforming system and restart it. The transmission occurs roughly 20 years before the start of the game, just before Aloy’s birth basically, in fact, the whole event is what CAUSES Aloy’s birth. Before Hades can take control of the Terraforming system, Gaia initiates a self destruct, to destroy both herself and Hades. In response, Hades dissolves the code shackles that bind it, and inadvertently frees the OTHER subordinate functions as well, which, like Hades, had all gained self awareness thanks to the transmission. Hades and the other subordinate functions then escape, before Gaia Prime self destructs. Just before all that happens however, Gaia orders a nearby Eluthia facility, the one under All-Mother Mountain, to make a clone of Elisabet Sobek, also known as, Aloy. She does this, so that the NEW Elisabet can rebuild the Terraforming system… this is the event that leads to Aloy’s birth.
Now just to be clear, Ted Faro and the rest of the survivors of the Faro Plague, went underground in bunkers, in the mid to late 2000’s, but these would only sustain them so long. At most, the last survivors lived until the year 2100, maybe a little beyond that, depending on supplies. Regardless, by the time the game starts, we are now in the 31st century, meaning it is at LEAST the year 3000 if not more. Again, unless Ted has been cloning himself CONTINUOUSLY, he is LONG dead, which is a shame, cause I REALLY wanted Aloy to punch that bastard 😩.
@@commandercritic9036 Two words.
Vast Silver.
If Faro's in this,he's probably in it the same way Elisabet is.
Mecha plants
😉