Blue Note Classic LP's VS Music Matters Jazz Review and shootout + Mike Rambles A Bit
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- Опубліковано 29 тра 2021
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Preach it brother. Please continue to do the level matched shoutouts of all the other Classic titles vs. MMJ. Well done. Takes courage to speak the truth to the “Choir.”
So true! This video is overdue!
The Blue Note Classic Reissues sound so good to me that I don’t have any interest in in the Music Matters.
Blue note classic vs Blue note Masterpiece 150???
I agree with you Mike, if you’ve spent over $100 on an audiophile release it’s natural that you want it to sound better than the $25 release. I’ve bought every Classic so far and I’ve been very very impressed. Amazing value.
I like this guy! On other channels, I only hear about exotic reissues, inflated prices and artificial exclusivity & scarcity . I have really come to dislike that whole "buy now or cry later" mantra that most sellers (and buyers) preach these days and I refuse to buy into it; not with all those glorious old records at dumping prices all over the place, still. There, that was my little rant. :-)
Yes, I love Analogue Productions but this hype machine on UA-cam is out of control. Now Chad is appearing on their channels to boost their subscriptions in exchange for their fawning promotional reviews. This “Buy now or cry later” thing makes me want to puke.
@@slistone1940 The whole reissue industry is a giant moneymaker for all involved, and that's fine. Personally, I've concluded that very few of these re-releases make me love music that I've known and loved for years even more. So I basically do not bother so much any more.
I think people assume more expensive = better, so there's a bias going into the comparison.
“‘expectation bias”
If I was the guy who came into the store, i'd be thinking, "shit he made a whole video about our conversation.. I gone and done it now."
Something to also consider, a few years ago Kevin Gray upgraded his mastering gear and reviewers are stating that the improvement is obvious, the early MM are probably mastered from his old gear where the 80s and classic series are from his new gear.
This is a very important video I hope the audiophile world watches this
They have and they ain’t laughing. Mike is under fire on fb. Priceless. I love jazz but to many privileged people missing the point of the whole thing.
@@chaibs1000 can you post a link to the FB discussion?
m.facebook.com/groups/JazzVinylLovers/permalink/5615046001901148/?anchor_composer=false&ref=m_notif¬if_t=group_highlights
@@chaibs1000 thanks!
Agreed. I hope this value vinyl quality carries over to other label releases.
Awesome video Mike. Thoroughly enjoyed this!
Love your videos, agree 100%, please continue, your channel really adds great information to the vinyl community.
Universal owns jazz labels Verve, Decca, Impulse, Blue Note, Mercury/EmArcy, Chess/Cadet, and Capitol. Wondering how many original masters from those labels went up in smoke during the big fire. They also have distribution rights from Concord for Prestige, Riverside, Contemporary, Savoy, and Veejay. That's a lot of jazz labels!
Excellent work Mike! Thanks!!
Great information. I totally agreed with you that there is only small difference among two production records.
Fascinating & timely video - many thanks
Thank you for the video. I really enjoy your straight talk on these releases. The prices on some of these records are hideously insane.
Great video. Spot on. I’ve bought a few of the classic series and they sound great.
Mike, that's great information! I recently became more interested in collecting audiophile releases and missed the Music Matter series. But as I understand Joe Harley was part of that and I have been collecting the wonderful Tone Poet releases. I've been watching your videos lately and have got to say you are a straight shooter and just speak truth about what's going on with these releases and I totally agree with your assessment. I also placed an order online from your store. So kudos for having a wonderful store as well!
Best wishes! Rob
Thanks Mike. I appreciate the information.
Yes, this. Preach it brother. The hipster-fercation of vinyl is really getting out of hand.
Right! I'm just trying to replace the stuff I foolishly sold in the eighties, and get the ones I had on CD on vinyl, and its a lot harder than it should be. The exclusivity of some titles is hard to fathom, especially when there is such a demand for them. Everything is being bought-up by sellers, and sold at 3-4 times the cost.
Mike, thanks for this one. Keep rambling. Your "rambling" is educating. Much appreciated.
Always great Mike. Thanks.
I've been seeing a lot of people say the MMJs are much better sounding than the Classics too. Maybe you're right, it is a placebo effect. Now I don't own a lot of MMJs to have an in depth comparison but I have all the Classics and I'm very happy with how these things sound; especially Soul Station. It is as good as it gets.
It's called clown magic you pleb. You can't hear it unless you have rhino horn cable risers.
@@hurkamur1 Thanks man! I’m so lucky to get a reply from a millionaire. :)
@@tcr02 Haha, no this isn't Mike's sock account. 😆
@@hurkamur1 “rhino horn cable risers”
Ahahaha
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Like the shoot-out series, especially the Blue Notes as they went so many re-issues. I have a bunch of the 70s two-fers, and a lot of the mid-90s 180 gram, and now the Classic and Tone Poets. Will be doing my own shoot out soon.
So cool you did this comparison. Very happy about it 👍🏻 Exactly what I thought about this pressings but I was not able to compare. Thanks
PS: what pressing of Black Sabbath - Paranoid would you recommend that doesn’t break the Bank?
The QRP pressing from Rhino.
I really appreciate this information
Thank You
Highland Park 25--nice!
To MIke's point about how well these Blue Note reissue series are selling, i often see the audiophile jazz on Amazon in Canada top selling of all records rank when the pre-orders are up. It's amazing that Jazz vinyl has this popularity now, I didn't think we'd ever get to this point, after personally returning to buying vinyl about 2005 when the internet at least made it possible to find things on-line. When vinyl died in the early 90s, i thought that was the end and we'd only have digital new music from that point on. Support your local record stores, and keep this rolling!
Thanks for the excellent non-biased assessment of this subject Mike. Your candor is appreciated and with the classic series titles i have bought are great sonically and on par with my Music Matters pressings.
I just wrote about this on Steve Hoffman's forum. The One Steps are showing signs of a wee little bit of neglect and QC issues are happening more often. I'm personally not looking for perfection, but there's a few things that has suffered over the last few difficult years.
Good stuff Mike. Nailed it!!
Appreciate this update... especially as I don't own any MMJ and now know it's OK 😉
I went through a whole bag of popcorn. Great stuff!
Kevin working with Ron and Joe is so different than on his own or with someone else at Blue Note.Ron and Joe really know the tapes better than almost anyone. Plus different pressing plants so the MMJs do have an edge but the Classics are really good too; especially for the price,
And they both licensed photographs from the Francis Wolf Archive which is owned by Michael Cuscuna who...used to head up Blue Note Records...
Kevin has done some of these titles four times. I just can’t imagine the last time being the worst. There are some differences as noted in the video but I’m not sure you can point to them as worse. Different. Not worse.
@@TheInGroove yes different. I think some people prefer that direction ron and joe seem to go with
Thank you for setting it straight about the QC issues. I have been preaching on social media that everyone is having issues. I am part of a Mofi fan group on Facebook and there seems to be constant complaining about how RTI has gone downhill and QRP is far superior. I always argue that I have as many (or more) issues with Analogue Productions/QRP as I do with Mofi/RTI.
The exact same thing happened to me, my Poly Lined Soul Station was scuffed to hell, but my Speak No Evil Paper sleeved disc looked flawless. Goes to show the sleeve is not the only thing that counts.
I’m fairly new into jazz in the last year or so. Didn’t get any MMJ titles, so for me the Classic series is a real blessing. I’ve got them all so far and I’ve only had a real issue with Soul Station towards the middle and end of side 2. Pretty sure it’s a pressing issue. I think some have been comparing 45 rpm versions of MMJ to classic series? Great video Mike, always value your opinion.
As you mentioned Mike, the quality control issue is real. The first copy I bought of the Classic Series Lee Morgan "Sidewinder" was a mess on side one, so I ordered and bought one from you which is in great shape.
Quality control is something to consider if anyone wants to hang on to a sealed copy of these.
I have to agree. As a collector, the details and quality matter to me.
Great one Mike! Keep it up!
Great video Mike. You are right!!!
So the difference in volume between the MMJ and the slightly louder Blue Note Classics is due to:
a.) A project wide decision to compensate for a possibly higher noise floor on a different vinyl quality, from a different pressing plant for a budget level product?
b.) A marketing decision similar to the loudness wars to help introduce a new generation to jazz on vinyl?
c.) A technical decision to help these wonderful albums sound better on the “average system of the average Joe” that buys $25 albums?
d.) All of the above?
e.) ________________
Thanks as always for the truth, Mike!
Such a great rant Mike. Totally agree with you on all counts.
I remember something similar happened with Bob Dylan's Music on Vinyl and the mono box set. A lot of Voodoo among us all
Because of this video (I am from Vienna/Austria) I bought today my first "Blue Note Classics". I hesitated before, because of ambivalent experiences with Optimal. To makes things short: They sound REALLY GOOD! The pressings are perfect. And: Kevin Grey rules! Thanks für Your "push"🙂
You know addressing the quality control issue, of the maybe half dozen MOFI One Steps that I've purchased, just one had no issues. I mean one had fingerprints with mars, ticks, etc. Another had a ring of what looked like grease around it. I went as far as purchasing two "Couldn't Stand The Weather" copies, one of my favorite lp's , both had issues on the same cut(Tin Pan Alley, the reason I purchased it). Each individually inspected with cotton gloves, yeah right.
Great video !! we can also say : " same old wine, different bottle "
Right on Mike.........!!!!!
Salute to you for this Sir......!!!!
Appreciate.... Gracias 👋
Hi Mike @ingroove, I rewatched this...ive finally managed to get a clean copy of Speak no Evil cane in a paper sleeve!?!?!?! And yet Out to lunch was polylined?! QC is all over the place!
I agree that the MMJ 33rpm and the Classics are comparable. But what about the MMJ and Analogue Productions Blue Note 45 rpms? Would they not be better?
I’m pretty sure he would say the same thing. That’s my guess.
Mike, this is a very interesting point you have brought up, and one that I have mulled over for a while as well. Using Kevin as an example as you have done here, given the remasters are the same, done by the same person, and the only major difference being the packaging between the two releases (BN vs. MM)! Now if there is an audible difference between the two examples, one being better than the other, then it has to come down to the quality of the vinyl itself, or the pressing facility (or both combined) being the only distinguishing factor(s)! Right? Of course these would be the only factors that would cause a difference in quality. All other factors being equal. When I say pressing facility this would include stampers, press, etc. With the exception being they were both pressed at the same facility! Logic follows that they should be identical in audio quality. That would be my conclusion. Thanks for another good video. One last bit of info here on the difference in packaging quality. I saw an interview with Don Was, the CEO of Blue Note, and what his aim or goal in producing the 80th series, was to get the best quality pressing at an affordable price, out to those either new to the Blue Note catalog, new to Jazz, or those who can't afford to pay the Audiophile prices on some of these records. I believe he accomplished this mission. This interview is available here. It's a good interview:
ua-cam.com/video/BKeKOCk0quA/v-deo.html
Hey Mike, great video as always. Just a correction, the Classics are indeed plated at RTI, but they're pressed at Optimal in Germany.
That's what Mike said
@@danielryan8319 You're right. I heard Mike saying at 2:27 "they're both pressed and plated at RTI" and my brain just shut down. He said it correctly a few seconds later.
Can you pleeeeaase compare the classic series with the OG stereo ones? :)
thank you for this video.
Thanks Mike! I JUST returned to vinyl after abandoning the audiophile life just before having kids lol...I see Soooo many Classic series I want but kept thinking it was Tone Poet or bust. Off to shop! 😁😉👊
You are superb, I love your video, they are the best on UA-cam.
They do sound great, really happy that these are being released! There can be quality issues however. I had to return two copies of Somethin’ Else due to a strange distortion on the first track. Third copy was perfect. Other classic series were fine. Of course not unique, I have had it with other labels too. I always listen to albums as soon as I get them just in case so I can return them if needed.
Yep, visible scratches on Soul Station and Moanin' releases in particular is a plague with most people apparently (including my 2 copies)
I ordered both direct from BN that has the scratches. They sent replacements twice and all four of those were scratched also. 5 out of 6 had top seam splits. Would love to know what caused that.
The moanin I got looked good I lucked out,, that’s a drag 2 banged up lp’s
@@williambalaga1
I totally agree with you, but too bad we have to 'luck out' to get a good pressing. My copy of Sidewinder has clicks, pops, and one loud scratch on it. It kind of makes me hesitant on buying the others but I will because I love those great albums.They're making them as fast as they can, so quality control is probably not as stringent as it could/should be. UME should step in and do something and demand better QC, the Blue Note label demands it.
Another one here for a very scuffed up Soul Station purchased from Amazon. The equal worst condition new record I have bought in over 20 years..
My Sidewinder, Moanin’, Soul Station, and more were all dirty and scuffed and hair line scratched including all their replacements - all manufactured at Optimal. That said, they have sorted it out with newer releases.
Very interesting. I thought they were both good but the MMJ was a bit better. I didn’t volume match though... No emotional attachment.
Nailed it! Totally agree
This is preposterous!!!! I love it!
This guy is a legend
Your assessment matches what Michael AKA 45rpm was stating a couple recently. Anyway, your explanation makes absolute sense and is what I was taking also. I would have preferred those for a slightly higher price tag (maybe around €28) and with single tip-on covers (but also I can imagine it would be problematic to produce that in those quantities).
Overall it is just great to get this level of sound quality (which is ultimately the most important thing) and a proper AAA release for that amount of money. Well done, BN and Universal.
on my system classic reissues sound stunning, for 25$ simply amazing
Hey Mike, how does the recent Analogue Productions Kind of Blue LP sound?
Don't have it yet.
Great video
Agreed, well done. I do have to say that I’ve bought most of the audiophile records that have been pressed during the pandemic and Optimal, by far, has the worst quality control issues. I had to buy three Sidewinders, two The Real McCoys, two Speak No Evils, two Song For My Fathers to get copies absent of no-fill. I also just bought the 80 series In ‘N Out and the first song is almost unlistenable. I’m not seeing the same volume of issues with Quality or RTI.
Maybe you're a bit too OCD with vinyl as a medium, seriously.
@@Matasky2010 no, it’s true. They are seriously unlistenable
I love the classic series. It is the only series I am collecting in full. I have had no quality issues with them. They sound great to me. I also prefer the non-gatefold jacket though I appreciate the quality of the tipon.
Lucky you.
Wise words MIke.
You should check out Matt Berrys albums on acid jazz . I think you'd enjoy him
He understood the assignment.
I have only heard that the 45 rpm Music Matters are a little better than the 33 rpm Classics. I think you would have to have a hell of a system to notice, even then.
Thank you for this video. Logic sometimes takes a holiday and with that fools with their money departed will surely follow. Of note here in Canada the Classic series are much harder to obtain than the Tone Poets and at least as scarce as the Acoustic Sounds Verve and Impulse reissue.
They’re tougher to get here too. I think it’s just temporary. Production is surely a problem at the moment.
As Chad would say "lt's a good problem." l'm just grateful to be living in "modern golden age of vinyl." Thanks for the good work that you do.
Isn’t it possible that different mastering choices could have been made between the Classic Series and Music Matters 33s? For instance, the Blue Note 75th series were directed by Don Was to sound as close to the originals as possible. Digital v analog aside, those sound different than the Classic Records (both done by Bernie Grundman). So maybe Kevin Gray didn’t purposely make Music Matters better, but it’s possible they made different mastering choices. Some people might like one sound and some another sound. Subjective.
I would be very happy with a classic re issue of Speak No Evil. Waiting for the next run truly sucks.
Amen!
If you must own only one Music Matters lp, it should bevthe 1958 selt titled Hank Mobley lp. Mainly because its in Mono. most Blue Note releases are stereo. RUDY van Gelder didnt do many recordings in Mono. And I dont believe theres a Classic series version in Mono or Stereo available yet.
But man oh man does it sound beautiful. The reveal is so omnipresent,you literally feel like the musicians are playing in a perfectly balanced room soundwise,and you are sitting in the perfect row and seat hearing uncluttered and perfect nuance and presence.
I would buy a classic series if it were a stereo version but if you have the MM version,you probably wont need to hear it any other way except for reference.
Love my Tone Poets to death though. And the price tag is more than fair for what you get.
Hey Mike,
You're the first person I've heard say the Classic series are plated at RTI.
I looked at a bunch of discogs listings and can't find any evidence.
What makes you say this?
You're estimate of Mr Gray's Blue Note output seems low.
With all the Music Matters / AP 45rpm / BN 80 / Tone Poets / Classics.
Surely we're pushing towards 400?
I have been collecting jazz records of various kinds (including 78s which I love for their sheer direct 'presence') for over 50 years. I have bought some of the recent pressings and I find that the situation is very variable with sometimes better products in the recent issues and other times not. However, often a version which I have had for 30 or 40 years is much better to my ears than recent issues. A French Blue Note version of Soul Station which I have had since the 1980s is to me vastly superior in terms of sound and dynamics to the more recent Blue Note Classics issue. Moving on to Joe Henderson at the Village Vanguard I bought Vol 2 on a French pressing in the 1980s and I recently bought Vol 1 on Tone Poet. Again the the 1980s issue is far better in terms of sound and dynamics than the current issue. I just think that what we got over 30 years ago was much closer to the original . Although 'Song for my Father' by Horace Silver is about even between my old issue and the current Classics one. Much as I admire Kevin Grey etc, I think that by supplying to an audiophile market rather than just to a general market they have changed things from what older fans like myself expected to hear I would , of course, consider the current issues to be superb and the best possible if I did not have the others. Other examples include 'A Love Supreme' where I still hear it (in my mind) in an original mono version from the 1960s which a friend gave me in the early 1970s. The recent Acoustic Sounds issue is superb but, like the Blue Notes, it sounds a bit 'processed and cleaned up' to my ears. Maybe the residual memory in my brain of my first ever purchase of any record is hard to erase. Then again the Gil Evans 'Out of the Cool' issue which I got last week sounds much better to me than the first one I bought in the late 1970s. So, who knows? Going back to Blue Note, the pressings on the Classics and the presentation of them are inferior to that of the Tone Poets, but the music on the Classics is generally superior to that on the Tone Poets. In the case of the Tone Poets I am often buying them to get music which I missed the first time around.
A mixed bag , therefore, and I'll leave it at that as my Kind of Blue UHQR has just arrived from Kansas. That could be another similar discussion to the above.
Tone Poet only put out the stereo version of Love Supreme so you are going to hear a difference the same as Ballard's stereo version.
I personally agree with your logic, but I have Crosby, Stills and Nash by Classic Records and by Rhino, they are both analog and cut by Bernie Grundman and there is a good difference between this two. But anyway, thanks for your video!
Which one is better? Are they both from the same source (Original master tapes vs copy tape)?
Classic records way better
@@gustavoricci3940 do you mean the 200g Classic Record Deja Vu ? I have owned this pressing 10 years ago and i have sold it. I have a 1st UK Atlantic Red/Plum which sounds 10 times better : with energy and life that the classic can only dream about !
No no, the 1969, Crosby, Stills and Nash. Deja Vu is Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young ;)
Hi, do you sell the music matters LPs?
It is funny how markets work - I have a policy of "no used records" and I mention this because I want to bring OG Blue Notes into the conversation.
To me, all things being equal, an OG Blue Note is just another used record.
I bought lots of Music Matters when they came out - that is, bought many 33s at $35 and many 45s at $55 - that was the price! - In my mind, I thought, these will kill the market for OGs; they are so good!
Then, first Music Matters themselves starting raising prices.. then, as they went out of print the market did that too. End result? OGs are expensive, Music Matters are expensive.
Then the 80 Anniv. and the Classics started coming out. I thought, they are so good! These definitely will kill the market for Music Matters. Then the pandemic hit. One thing that wasn't mentioned in the video was that the 80s and Classics, while NOT out of print, they are out of stock and re-presses are very far in between.
So the re-sellers prices are up! So now, The OGs are expensive, The Music Matters are expensive and SOME 80s and Classics are expensive!
It would be funny if it wasn't sad. Sometimes I wish markets made sense.... Good video - Next time I am in Phoenix, I will try to stop at the shop!
Tone Poets as well.
I think its great that we don't need to spend a ton of money for similar product. I think that was the whole point behind the Blue Note Classic Series.
I purposely bought the recent issue of Soul Station from you to compare it to the MMJ copy.
@the’in’groove Mike, do you think the Mofi Portrait in Jazz at $330 current price worth the spend? Or are there any less expensive alternatives that you can recommend for better value. I have OJC and I am not thrilled with the sound.
I think it's possible we see an all along cut put out by Craft or reissues by Analog Productions in the not to distant future. The One Step is also great.
@@TheInGroove thanks for this Mike. Very helpful.
you should of get AP cut much better sourced from analog tapes
You are 100%.
I don’t own MMs, I can just assume the pressing may be better. My system is quite far from distinguishing these differences people talk about. 😂
I have compared them and on Music Matters the vinyl seems to be quieter. It is close but MM has some. Mystique attached which maybe the reason that they sound better. But not really great point Mike. Music Matters is sold out vinyl is continuing to explode. Something has to give due to shortage of top grade vinyl pressing
Listening to Cannonball Adderley’s Somethin’ Else, maybe it’s rig-dependent but the MM just sounds more real and punchy to me over Blue Note Classic. Both are amazing, but yeah. My ears.
I had never heard of SRX vinyl, would that be a technology or product that would be licensed out for other labels/plants to use?
It's the same vinyl formula as the mofi 1 steps
@@michaelmetcalf2427 - Thank you sir, I’m just curious as a plebe electronic collector that doesn’t have Wilson’s... but runs active Genelecs.
Kevin Gray recently mentioned in an interview with 45rpm that the pressing quality is not as high as the MMJ. I have Hubtones 33 rpm MMJ and did a shootout with my son's Classic pressing and the MMJ sounds more balanced, the horns are hotter on the Classic but the drums are more realistic and natural on the MMJ, not by a wide margin but the MMJ rates a 10 and the classic a 9. Great that the Classics are easily available because they are way better than the 75s and very affordable.
mike thankyou for this honost review,hmm ill guess the only difference is that music matters are strong limited
and not sounding better,therefore the price is going up
all though i must say i haveSomethin' Else cannonball Adderley both the mm and the normal blue note,actually this is my only record i have twice,,and i must say the music matters real sound better for me.thankyou mike
$250 for one album??? That's crazy! I would rather buy 10, $25 albums and have a better selection of music to listen to.
Preach!
I wanted to agree with you but there exist sonic differences even given the same sources and engineer, due to the mastering signature on different periods/tasks, tape condition, the whole pressing procedure that cannot be controlled to be identical. Some identical titles of AP45RPM, MMJ45RPM, MMJ33RPM all done by KG are usually easily distinguishable because of the mastering choices (laid back vs forward, etc.). A lot of examples on pressings with same speed, same master engineer and similar pressing plant that result in slightly or noticeable differences in sonic such as Saxophone Colossus and Buena Vista Social Club.
I did say there were differences IE the volume but to say every mastering choice that was made for the classic series was worse sonically would be hard to believe and the current group think is all the MMJ titles sound better.
Ah the human condition... Most don't really want to hear the truth, they really want affirmation. The one thing I know about audiophiles js as a whole they are the most insecure group of people I know, continualy chasing the live performance that can never really be obtained in recordings. Really, who wouldn't think fondeling a Stoughton jacket, they were holding the holly grail. In the end you nailed it perfectly. Mike, you possess two rare qualities, intellectual honesty and wisdom,
Is it real the second batch of Speak No Evil pressed in April sounds like crap?? Every review on discogs say that the first one is a super pressing while the second one sucks.. anyone experienced it?
Well my music matters are 45’s so that’s a huge advantage. Also what’s the story with the Blue Note 75 series which is clearly inferior
Yeah I don’t think Mike is saying that the 45’s aren’t better. All three of the ones he showed in the video were 33 vs 33. No doubt the MMJ 45 rpm pressing of The Real McCoy beats out the classic series version.
As for the 75th series, they were trash because they were digitally sourced and pressed at United
@@gtaylor3350 good feedback. I just ordered two MMJ 45rpms. While they still have some. Can’t wait. Sad that the 75 series were treated so poorly.
So explain this to me, since you used that phrase. How are we going to compare unless we buy the record(s) you just told us not to buy?
That was more aimed at the people who have them already.
I’ve got a 45rpm and the look of the vinyl is the worst - cloudy, shelf scuffs, but its sounds amazing.
Do a shootout with Miles Davis KOB UHQR and Mofi 45rpm
What for!! What's the point...the verdict is out..If you want natural sound get the UHQR....if you want it not like it was originally done with a bunch of added bass, etc, then get the mofi!!
the Mofi 45 goosed the bass
@@michaellourie4252 haha yes
@@michaellourie4252 Same goes gor most mofi. That shit is getting old.