There is also the issue that air wings assigned to armies often "forget" their air mission after some time has passed. So I'm forced to move fighters and CAS myself to where my troops are fighting. It's an awful bug that no one seems to talk about.
This. The idea that I can't have 20 units and then click multiple tiles for my drop like a naval invasion.t selecting multiple missions and assigning units to each individual order is really jank
This only happens if the army they are assigned to moves into an area where there aren't enough airbases for the wings to operate. So, if you're invading the USSR and get into some of the places where there is just a single 200-plane airbase available, then only 2 wings will remain active. To fix this, all you need to do is build more air bases and then re-activate the missions and the wings will move right into position.
@@juvandy its still super annoying that when enough space becomes available they don't return to their missions. requiring you to set their mission over and over again
i wish you could have a paradrop order with multiple targets. You can make a naval invasion go and your 10 units land like 4 different spaces. For paratroopers, you either have 10 million Orders covering the map, as to simaltaneosly drop on multiple spaces, or on space whre multiple paratroopers land. What you don't have is an order, with multiple tragets, which in my opinion is the biggest reason it is so incredibly click intensive
Could they mix the navel invasion mechanics with the area defence mechanics were the 'drop' will happen over an area and you can choose to prioritise VP's or Docks etc.
plus historically paratroopers are not all drooped in one location it was drop everywhere. another feature I would like to see whit special forces is that they can become guerilla fighters (dispersing from the map to become part of the local resistance). and then when the time is right reemerge.
@@Zack_Wester maybe when their tile gets taken... they disappear but if the tile is retaken they reappear but are dmged depending on resistence done by the germans
A little Bittersteel exploit: If you don’t put any planes up in an airzone, the ai won’t either. Meaning if you’re Germany/Italy and you put all your planes in a zone you don’t want to paradrop the ai will put all their planes in the same area to counter you, which allows you to drop paratroopers without having any true air superiority.
So if i understand correctly then, say im Germany and ive taken Netherlands,Belgium,Luxembourg and France. If i only put planes up in Northern France I would then be able to paradrop into the UK from say the Netherlands?
Damn, I was so mad when I have realized I cannot para-drop from Iceland (which for some reason joined Axis) to Greenland (and then to Canada) and I had to spend few years doing nothing but building navy... ;v In real life transport planes usually have massive range
@@Zack_Wester how so? I mean the ai already pretty broken. France can't defend itself against early paradrop, Britain can't defend itself against early naval invasion. And it's worth noting that in order to be able to para/naval invasion, you need the entire path to be clear enough.
Regarding the supply missions, I believe there are events where reinforcements for divisions were brought (or tried anyway) by plane. I believe the Germans airlifted an entire army to defend North Africa against Torch, even though it didn't work out. Which is why I would suggest transport planes could actually transport entire divisions across friendly territory and also bring in reinforcements in men and materiel (not heavier equipment than a light tank though), all in order not to risk friendly ships, but to make use of air superiority and transport planes, because 80% of the ones you produce might end up in some depot, (like trucks before NSB and the supply update), having never even flown.
So true. The capacity cap is so arbitrary, unrealistic and stupidly low. It's not like in WW2 if you wanted to join the Marines they told you: "Nah sorry, you have to wait for 6 more guys to join the Army first."
- 75% air superiority in all areas towards drop zone - 50 planes per division I actually did have a tooltip pop up one time, but it isn't consistent:( -
"You can't Paradrop when your Transport planes are on a mission" *puts Transport planes on a mission as an example *tries Paradropping with the airport where the planes are on a mission "Why can't I Paradrop?" I know this isn't the point of the video but I just found it funny.
Biggest problem with para is that you can not drop fuel to them via airdrop (it is also affecting tanks or planes in low supply regions - you can assign 1000 planes to supply them but there will be no drop of fuel delivered). So you can have on paper a really good paratroop division for early stages with armor support, drop it and then be paralyzed after some fighting in defense.
The template exploit still works, you just have to do it the other way around. You first convert them to the template and then save the template in the division designer
Para troopers are pretty handy in my opinion for when your in a situation that naval superiority can’t realistically be achieved but you need to get across to say the UK. It’s very niche use cases and they definitely need to improve the controls and ui for it. That being said I’m glad they are in the game and while they are not something I realistically use the times I have needed to use them were super clutch for some of the silly hoi4 achievements
Not really about paratroopers, but I kinda always wished I could move troops between airports using transport planes... makes sense, doesn't it? Of course they have to be in range and why not, like naval transports, if they are shot down you will lose your troops. Maybe there could be the limit that you cannot transport tanks that way.
@@dutchrjenwe have division weight. Why isn't it possible to land divisions with a weight lower than x at airport 2 from airport 1? Would that really be hard to implement?
Yeah Paradox need to make it clearer for noobs , personally I have zero issue and they are my main go to , always have them , they are just handy when you want them ,
We also need Spec Ops Support Company and Spec Ops Battalions - something like Rangers, SSF, Commando, Brandenburgers in a division. Instead of being very strong statwise they would add good terrain modifiers and general buff to a division
Why do you need Transports for ALL paratroopers in a General's orders? If you don't have enough, why don't they just go one at at time? I think it does work that way sometimes, but not all the time...?
Not enough transports. The annoying workaround is repeatedly select a few units at a time and drop them. Horrible UI design. Obviously should be able to select a general, click paradrop and drag a frontline to assign paradrops. Not enough transports it drops them sequentially. PDX should fix annoying bugs that spoil the game. Expanding frontlines, frontlines making circles, too many friendly divisions in a province.
Paratroopers are really fun in singleplayer but it's not effective, and you barely can get 5 competent paratroopers div out because of the special forces cap. Paradox really need to rework them.
i agree paratroopers are super overrated. I would rather use my special forces in Marines and Mountaineers (also shock troops in rt56) Really the only time I see paratroopers as beneficial, is if you are trying to invade the UK or Japan, to capture those inner chinese victory points (Chongqing, ect), or to quickly capitulate france
that is a bit dumb the sf boys have less Hp then regular forces ahahahaha that is a joke. like the airborne operations for America was so massive and important to invading France and Italy the Russians were the first to adopt airborne units even during ww1 its like having access to Germany's Brandenburger special forces but they don't fight as long as regular forces or live as long even though there are sf hmmm kind of dumb I don't see a legit justification to this just another thing to patch.
Imagine being Oman and having Germany mail you a declaration of war. Everyone freaks out until they just see Germany do nothing but conduct paratrooper drills in their own territory while the whole German naval fleet just sleeps in the ports.
They're great for cheese strategy but God damn paratroopers+transport planes are buggy as all hell. I don't think PDX will ever completely fix that combo.
PDX should really make Paradrop into a mission in of itself, then allow Para-Transports to be assigned to your Para-Divs as well as your fighters. It's terribly annoying having to figure out where you let them darn things whenever you want to paradrop a random isle.
There are plenty of such errors in the game: e.g. the front lines (disintegration if the opponent is torn to pieces). Unfortunately, we still only get visuals instead of strategy and tactics.
@@juvandy Yeah i still don't get why that happens, there's no reason for the frontline roder to take a division from the other end of the frontline to fill in a gap.
In order for the paradrop order to execute, you need that transport planes have the range covering _all provinces_ of the air zone of your target, not only your target province. This means for example that Soviets can never drop paratroops even in the Baltics (Hiumaa is outside any such range).
For a long time, Hearts of Iron 4 has had a system in which a country has only one type of transport airplane, with no upgrades for airframe. All of the other airplane types have had such upgrades available for research, which in practice also grant longer range. As such, an airzone that is undroppable to paratroopers in 1936 stays that way for the whole game. Also, there has only been one type of transport cargo ship hull available in Hearts of Iron 4. With transport ships, the chief problem is not range, which is infinite for transport ships, but is instead speed. More speed means more amount of time during the chasedown phase, which in turn allows a better chance of reaching port or of being rescued by a friendly navy. It would be nice to spend research on getting a faster cargo ship, but that research does not exist. Extra capacity would also be nice in a newer version of a cargo ship hull or transport airframe. However, in Hearts of Iron 4, there is just one version of transport airplane and just one version of a convoy cargo ship. The speed and range and capacity of cargo ship and transport airplane are all set in stone.
I like the idea of special forces being "tacked on" to a standing army with special orders integrated with the main army's battle plan. For instance, an invasion of Normandy, with the same general having two paratrooper divisions and four Marines in a sub-force that drops behind enemy lines and converges to the same objectives as the main army. Or, the Marines are tasked specifically securing the beaches and rivers while the main army sits on the front line as normal.
Would it cause the entire AI to collapse like a house of cards? Probably. Then again, it could be beneficial. Special forces could automatically occupy and fight in the kind of territory they are designed for in a preferential manner
Yeah there were a lot of battles with small amounts of special forces like paratroopers or US Rangers that you can’t really emulate with divisions of 10k soldiers
@@erichluepke855 every expansion and adding of content they do just nerfs the AI. While humans can learn new stuff like how to custom build a better navy, AI can't and thus all of the extra work around navy/tanks/planes/spies is a massive buff to player.
Imagine similar to moving infantry port to port with ships with transport planes to airbase to airbase. Moving a division will take way more planes as they have to land and the equipment lost as it was left behind.
I'd like in a theoretical rework is for paras to have the transport capacity built in to the cost of the battalion. Just dispense with the transport planes, or make them able to do non combat transport. But the paratroopers should have the aircraft they need to combat drop be integrated. This also lets you upgrade the range, supplies, etc
Yeah, totally agree. For example Bristol Bombay had like 3600 km of range. There should be aircraft designer for transports where I am balancing, cost, range and payload.
When I first started playing HOI4 I was probably the most excited with the possibility of customizing my own fallschirmjager core. To my disappointment paratroops are kinda lukewarm, between expecting a bit more/user un-friendliness I was pretty let down.
To add onto your idea about the AI doing it for you, what if you send them to a general, he makes the plan, and then a little pop-up comes onto the screen, and it gives you his plan, and the objectives that the paratroopers have, and then ask you if it’s OK to go through with it
My chief disappointment with paratroopers has nothing to do with how annoying and buggy paradrops are. I just think airborne divisions have a shitty niche of cheesing the AI without any other real general application to gameplay that makes them worth getting otherwise. If you have to pick two of the three special forces divisions to invest into, you damn near always go mountaineers and marines because they just have better overall utility than paratroopers. I wish airborne divisions had more of a niche as elite shock troops and commandos where they could do cool shit that makes paratroopers more useful as a separate branch of the special forces.
Paratroopers suck because I have to read articles and watch youtube videos for an hour to figure out why they won't deploy and then still not be able to figure out what's wrong
I feel like Marines are the only good special forces. They have faster naval invade speed and after you invade they are good and pushing across rivers.
Maybe they removed the peacetime paradrop so you couldn't get troops into Poland early as an Ally member? Seeing as Danzig is a DMZ until war's declared.
I think it could be cool if the paratroop order had an option to do it via garrison order or something similar, so automatically landing on e.g. ports, railways. Either that or like naval invasions being able to select multiple provinces.
It should drop them over a small area instead of through one small province location. After they drop they regroup instead of appearing right away like when you send volunteers. It says they are incoming but you can’t see where until they regroup on the ground. Depending on how quickly they regroup they may be able to sabotage and do +50% damage to buildings and infrastructure but also have a +50% chance to get captured and wiped out before regrouping so risky play if you decide to use them aggressively or tell them to lay low until they fully regroup.
One thing i would like to add is the game doesn't seem to allow you to jump onto land you occupied. It would really make sense to use large paratroopers as mobile reserves where you can throw them into points that is breaking. Instead of the 1 division spam and back stab then transform into another division type. Just doesn't make sense as in real life such conversion ( German mariner to infantry) takes a few months atleast. Paratroopers start with 0 organization also don't work, as Paras go into action the moment they land. They can start with low morale (20%) and work from there. That way Para can do a lot of damage if left unchecked as they should be. Also para supplies need some work, right now they are far too low and plane supply too few, you can't exactly do D Day or Market Garden without a bazzilion transport plane on supply. To balance this they could also be given a penalty to hard attack (as Para are light infantry, and don't carry heavy weaponry around) so armor hard counter them.
You can get a general with a paratrooper trait, it gives an ability like last stand that gives paratroopers full org when they land, but most countries don’t start with one
@@seangallagher9435 It is a real pain to train a general specifically for them. Also paras are best when you open the war with them, they are rather useless if you are already in one. For example, if you go para route, you can hop onto the brits early as germany and shut them down via holland (if you annex them early).
I made an achievement run for Brazil recently, trying to get the "Smoking Snakes" achievement (You need to paradrop in Rome as Brazil) I cheesed it a bit by creating a shit load of horse 2-width divisions, then converting them to 50-width divisions, and that allowed me to have some 20 20-width Airborne divisions with support companies And heck they were effective I started my way in Africa. After securing it I dropped in Greece, where the advance ground to a halt By that time I created 2 armies of basic 21-width infantry (9 inf - 1 art). One was left to hold the line, while I prepared a paradrop from Greece to Italy, and the 2nd was prepared to hold the line in Italy proper, once I paradrop The first drop was successful, I secured Sicily and Southern Italy, and from there I paradropped to Rome (which, quite in line with Mussolini's military "competence", was left unsecured, much to my pleasure) So, paratroopers are worth it, and can definitely be used to your advantage. I'm planning to do something of this kind in a run for the German Reich. Because of naval superiority rework, Sea Lion is no longer an option, so I'll try an Air Lion instead.
I parachuted into Soviet Occupied Poland after I had set them up but it was right after I finished the Molotov Ribbentrop pact. This was like 3 days ago. Paratroopers have been giving me headaches for the past week. I wasn't at war with anyone anymore when they parachuted.
I remember a long time ago I was watching someone give advice on how to play Warcraft III. Some things I knew, some things I didn't, overall it was okay and I appreciated the insight into certain things. But the top comment under the video was "Clicker newb thinks they can give gaming advice". Because he wasn't using keyboard shortcuts, but using the mouse. Been twenty years, but listening to you talk about things like "Look, not everyone has spent that much time in the game. Some people need tool tips, some people need to know what is wrong, some people don't understand basic mechanics that you with your 2K+ hours in the game do" really jogs that memory. Like these 'really smart, talented and not at all socially awkward people' have trouble comprehending that there may be things they know that other people don't.
I believe if you hover over the order or maybe its the green arrow you click to exectute the order and it will tell you why its not happening. It does tell you somewhere when you dont have enough planes or air seperiority.
I think casualties from air drops make sense because of how risky they were in those times. Doesn't have to be death but you can pretty easily break something
I must say i never touched this game. And thats why. Idiotic. Game is so unreallistic. You drop Paratroopers at night. So why you would need Air superiority. Clunky mechanics ruin the game basicly. So i did not miss much that i never played this game. Is my conclusion.
Paratroopers SUCK in WW2 irl as well. Talking about Crete, Market Garden, and other failed paradrops that I can't really remember. Ideally, paratroopers shall work like the Russians attempted to do with Hostomel where paratroopers take over an airport and flood it with additional troops by air. The fact that HOI4 airports are still based on provinces instead of tiles (put it in another way, air bases should have worked like naval bases) and the inability to transport troops by air (I get it, you can't transport armor divisions in WW2 by air but at least you can do something?...) is what, in my opinion, really rendered paratroopers useless. I dunno if anyone tried this or is it a viable tactics but you can train 'disposable' paradrop battalions and drop them at enemy railway junctions to disrupt the supply lines, then again it is not worth it.
Soviet focus tree is completely absurd. You can get 20% special forces cap and easily field 48 20w divisions by 1943. Id like to see a sliding scale mechanic implemented for special forces. Higher cap for lower quality total army with division limits like kaiserreich.
The special forces research would be much improved if it increased your minimum special forces limit. If it went from 24 to 36 to 48, it wouldn't change anything for major nations but for minors like Canada, NZ and other low manpower nations they can realistically get more special forces.
And I though I was noob for not knowing how paratroopers work in HOI4! LOL! Now I'm just noob for not knowing how to maintain manpower during long wars. Yey!
I play with a few basic mods (player led peace confrences, state transfer tool, beautiful states(or whatever its called now)) and for some reason paratroopers crash my game?
14:40 It's the same as naval invasions and it's so annoying. I always want to invade multiple provinces with the same army group, just in case 1 fails, especially if taking a port fails or gets bogged down, I can just surround the port with the other landings. But the system to make the orders and then assign units to each of those orders is so annoying.
Don't quite remember how, but the game did give me a tooltip saying that I didn't have enough transport planes for the paradrop. I think I might've moved the cursor over the plan on the map itself. However, this was in a mod for Hoi4, so it might've been a case of the mod being better than the base game.
Well, it does tell you why the order isn't starting but you must hover over the "arrow" itself and it will show. But paras are still bugged AH, I use them only when I play Germany and only if I cannot gain the 50% naval supremacy to invade Britain. In a recent game I launched the order but only one of them executed (I put multiple orders around the port and on port itself) and I had to figure out why isn't it working and it was the amount of transports (it's almost always the amount of transports). In the end yeah, guess they aren't as convenient as naval invasions but personally for me they are super satisfying and I love the concept itself
There is also the issue that air wings assigned to armies often "forget" their air mission after some time has passed. So I'm forced to move fighters and CAS myself to where my troops are fighting. It's an awful bug that no one seems to talk about.
This. The idea that I can't have 20 units and then click multiple tiles for my drop like a naval invasion.t selecting multiple missions and assigning units to each individual order is really jank
This only happens if the army they are assigned to moves into an area where there aren't enough airbases for the wings to operate. So, if you're invading the USSR and get into some of the places where there is just a single 200-plane airbase available, then only 2 wings will remain active. To fix this, all you need to do is build more air bases and then re-activate the missions and the wings will move right into position.
@@juvandy I came to comment exatly this but Im glad that someone else knows the same thing ❤
@@juvandy its still super annoying that when enough space becomes available they don't return to their missions. requiring you to set their mission over and over again
i wish you could have a paradrop order with multiple targets. You can make a naval invasion go and your 10 units land like 4 different spaces. For paratroopers, you either have 10 million Orders covering the map, as to simaltaneosly drop on multiple spaces, or on space whre multiple paratroopers land. What you don't have is an order, with multiple tragets, which in my opinion is the biggest reason it is so incredibly click intensive
你可以同時空降多個地點啊 (?
Could they mix the navel invasion mechanics with the area defence mechanics were the 'drop' will happen over an area and you can choose to prioritise VP's or Docks etc.
plus historically paratroopers are not all drooped in one location it was drop everywhere.
another feature I would like to see whit special forces is that they can become guerilla fighters (dispersing from the map to become part of the local resistance).
and then when the time is right reemerge.
@@蔡林翰-v2m nah he says he wishes "要是可以同時空降多個地點就好了" 这个意思
@@Zack_Wester maybe when their tile gets taken... they disappear but if the tile is retaken they reappear but are dmged depending on resistence done by the germans
A little Bittersteel exploit: If you don’t put any planes up in an airzone, the ai won’t either. Meaning if you’re Germany/Italy and you put all your planes in a zone you don’t want to paradrop the ai will put all their planes in the same area to counter you, which allows you to drop paratroopers without having any true air superiority.
So if i understand correctly then, say im Germany and ive taken Netherlands,Belgium,Luxembourg and France. If i only put planes up in Northern France I would then be able to paradrop into the UK from say the Netherlands?
@@RAEJDER You’d need to find a way of gaining air superiority along the entire route.
don't air drop on uk. They have shit tons of aa and 9 out of 10 times you will lose all your paratroopers
As any country to easily get uk just dont use any plane and they wont use any until your already at london
You need to click "Enter" instead of "Escape" to confirm the paradrop order.
Also allow us to modify transports so we have the ability to get higher range in the late game
Damn, I was so mad when I have realized I cannot para-drop from Iceland (which for some reason joined Axis) to Greenland (and then to Canada) and I had to spend few years doing nothing but building navy... ;v In real life transport planes usually have massive range
Yes, it's stupid. In theory, they should have a longer range than strategic bombers, because they don't have to carry heavy cargo like bombs.
that was mention by paradox when the aircraft designer came out.
designable transporting plane broke the ai.
@@Zack_Wester how so?
I mean the ai already pretty broken. France can't defend itself against early paradrop, Britain can't defend itself against early naval invasion. And it's worth noting that in order to be able to para/naval invasion, you need the entire path to be clear enough.
Regarding the supply missions, I believe there are events where reinforcements for divisions were brought (or tried anyway) by plane. I believe the Germans airlifted an entire army to defend North Africa against Torch, even though it didn't work out. Which is why I would suggest transport planes could actually transport entire divisions across friendly territory and also bring in reinforcements in men and materiel (not heavier equipment than a light tank though), all in order not to risk friendly ships, but to make use of air superiority and transport planes, because 80% of the ones you produce might end up in some depot, (like trucks before NSB and the supply update), having never even flown.
I totally agree with the tooltips rework! And I think we need more special forces capicity for a big paratroop invasion.
So true. The capacity cap is so arbitrary, unrealistic and stupidly low. It's not like in WW2 if you wanted to join the Marines they told you: "Nah sorry, you have to wait for 6 more guys to join the Army first."
- 75% air superiority in all areas towards drop zone
- 50 planes per division
I actually did have a tooltip pop up one time, but it isn't consistent:(
-
50 planes per divisions, or per battalions ?
"You can't Paradrop when your Transport planes are on a mission"
*puts Transport planes on a mission as an example
*tries Paradropping with the airport where the planes are on a mission
"Why can't I Paradrop?"
I know this isn't the point of the video but I just found it funny.
Biggest problem with para is that you can not drop fuel to them via airdrop (it is also affecting tanks or planes in low supply regions - you can assign 1000 planes to supply them but there will be no drop of fuel delivered). So you can have on paper a really good paratroop division for early stages with armor support, drop it and then be paralyzed after some fighting in defense.
Do you never use paratroopers? Drop them on a few supply hubs and rr lines and launch the main attack, try it sometime.
The template exploit still works, you just have to do it the other way around. You first convert them to the template and then save the template in the division designer
I’m not sure I get it? Can you elaborate?
Huh?
@@johngalt5166 Open the same 2 windows that Dave did in the video with the game paused just click the buttons the other way around
Para troopers are pretty handy in my opinion for when your in a situation that naval superiority can’t realistically be achieved but you need to get across to say the UK.
It’s very niche use cases and they definitely need to improve the controls and ui for it.
That being said I’m glad they are in the game and while they are not something I realistically use the times I have needed to use them were super clutch for some of the silly hoi4 achievements
After the disastrous micro clickfest of Crete, Hitler never attempted to do paradrops every again.
Not really about paratroopers, but I kinda always wished I could move troops between airports using transport planes... makes sense, doesn't it? Of course they have to be in range and why not, like naval transports, if they are shot down you will lose your troops. Maybe there could be the limit that you cannot transport tanks that way.
That's how I thought it would work but it didn't :(
@@dutchrjenwe have division weight. Why isn't it possible to land divisions with a weight lower than x at airport 2 from airport 1? Would that really be hard to implement?
Press return not escape, its not a bug
*No paratroopers in the Command Group*
It would make far more sense if the special forces had higher hp
Is there a way to improve the range of the Transport planes tho?
Yeah Paradox need to make it clearer for noobs , personally I have zero issue and they are my main go to , always have them , they are just handy when you want them ,
We also need Spec Ops Support Company and Spec Ops Battalions - something like Rangers, SSF, Commando, Brandenburgers in a division. Instead of being very strong statwise they would add good terrain modifiers and general buff to a division
I have 300h and often trolled people with paratroopers. Not a single time did I have such an issue with the order
Why do you need Transports for ALL paratroopers in a General's orders? If you don't have enough, why don't they just go one at at time? I think it does work that way sometimes, but not all the time...?
they are made to capitulate france real fast, thats enough for me
Not enough transports. The annoying workaround is repeatedly select a few units at a time and drop them. Horrible UI design. Obviously should be able to select a general, click paradrop and drag a frontline to assign paradrops. Not enough transports it drops them sequentially.
PDX should fix annoying bugs that spoil the game. Expanding frontlines, frontlines making circles, too many friendly divisions in a province.
Paratroopers are really fun in singleplayer but it's not effective, and you barely can get 5 competent paratroopers div out because of the special forces cap. Paradox really need to rework them.
I havent used paratroops once in ~400 hours in gameplay
marines all the way
Are you from Hull ?
IF you know how to use them effectively they are just brokenly strong.
I don't use them at all, they are just not fair.
joe biden feedback its 50 transports per paratroopers divison doesnt matter how big the divison is its just 50 transports per divison
i agree paratroopers are super overrated. I would rather use my special forces in Marines and Mountaineers (also shock troops in rt56)
Really the only time I see paratroopers as beneficial, is if you are trying to invade the UK or Japan, to capture those inner chinese victory points (Chongqing, ect), or to quickly capitulate france
In my opinion you should be able to assign paratroopers to normal battles just from air. Like adding a 3rd dimension for the battle
that is a bit dumb the sf boys have less Hp then regular forces ahahahaha that is a joke. like the airborne operations for America was so massive and important to invading France and Italy the Russians were the first to adopt airborne units even during ww1 its like having access to Germany's Brandenburger special forces but they don't fight as long as regular forces or live as long even though there are sf hmmm kind of dumb I don't see a legit justification to this just another thing to patch.
IIRC, the correct way to exit the paratroop order menu ist to just click the button again, like with naval invasions
Usually I press Enter... if I remember right
Took me quite some time to figure this one out... Why even ask the question? There is a Trashcan button for a reason...
Imagine being Oman and having Germany mail you a declaration of war. Everyone freaks out until they just see Germany do nothing but conduct paratrooper drills in their own territory while the whole German naval fleet just sleeps in the ports.
They're great for cheese strategy but God damn paratroopers+transport planes are buggy as all hell. I don't think PDX will ever completely fix that combo.
They aren’t getting a rework though?
Gotta love clickbait
@@drunkensailor5771 I'm just here for the Dave.
@@drunkensailor5771 Yeah this guy's whole game is clickbaiting. He even admits it in streams
PDX should really make Paradrop into a mission in of itself, then allow Para-Transports to be assigned to your Para-Divs as well as your fighters.
It's terribly annoying having to figure out where you let them darn things whenever you want to paradrop a random isle.
They're not bad,they're a great way to get the 'no country for old men' achievement.
There are plenty of such errors in the game: e.g. the front lines (disintegration if the opponent is torn to pieces).
Unfortunately, we still only get visuals instead of strategy and tactics.
Or how a multi-army frontline sometimes re-assembles itself so that all of your divisions move all over the place.
@@juvandy Yeah i still don't get why that happens, there's no reason for the frontline roder to take a division from the other end of the frontline to fill in a gap.
@@purplefood1 I think you can modify this with the new cohesion tool to an extent, but I keep forgetting it is there.
In order for the paradrop order to execute, you need that transport planes have the range covering _all provinces_ of the air zone of your target, not only your target province. This means for example that Soviets can never drop paratroops even in the Baltics (Hiumaa is outside any such range).
For a long time, Hearts of Iron 4 has had a system in which a country has only one type of transport airplane, with no upgrades for airframe. All of the other airplane types have had such upgrades available for research, which in practice also grant longer range. As such, an airzone that is undroppable to paratroopers in 1936 stays that way for the whole game.
Also, there has only been one type of transport cargo ship hull available in Hearts of Iron 4. With transport ships, the chief problem is not range, which is infinite for transport ships, but is instead speed. More speed means more amount of time during the chasedown phase, which in turn allows a better chance of reaching port or of being rescued by a friendly navy. It would be nice to spend research on getting a faster cargo ship, but that research does not exist.
Extra capacity would also be nice in a newer version of a cargo ship hull or transport airframe. However, in Hearts of Iron 4, there is just one version of transport airplane and just one version of a convoy cargo ship. The speed and range and capacity of cargo ship and transport airplane are all set in stone.
I like the idea of special forces being "tacked on" to a standing army with special orders integrated with the main army's battle plan. For instance, an invasion of Normandy, with the same general having two paratrooper divisions and four Marines in a sub-force that drops behind enemy lines and converges to the same objectives as the main army. Or, the Marines are tasked specifically securing the beaches and rivers while the main army sits on the front line as normal.
Would it cause the entire AI to collapse like a house of cards? Probably. Then again, it could be beneficial. Special forces could automatically occupy and fight in the kind of territory they are designed for in a preferential manner
Yeah there were a lot of battles with small amounts of special forces like paratroopers or US Rangers that you can’t really emulate with divisions of 10k soldiers
@@erichluepke855 every expansion and adding of content they do just nerfs the AI. While humans can learn new stuff like how to custom build a better navy, AI can't and thus all of the extra work around navy/tanks/planes/spies is a massive buff to player.
Once you have defined the drop order, just click on the parachute symbol again to exit.
Imagine similar to moving infantry port to port with ships with transport planes to airbase to airbase. Moving a division will take way more planes as they have to land and the equipment lost as it was left behind.
You need to press "Enter" to confirm the individual paradrop order.
I'd like in a theoretical rework is for paras to have the transport capacity built in to the cost of the battalion. Just dispense with the transport planes, or make them able to do non combat transport. But the paratroopers should have the aircraft they need to combat drop be integrated. This also lets you upgrade the range, supplies, etc
I like this idea. Consolidating things like that would definitely make it less of a headache
Transports need more range. 1000km was fine for a Ju-52, but Allied transports usually had 2600km of range. Extend transport ranges please, Paradox.
Yeah, totally agree. For example Bristol Bombay had like 3600 km of range. There should be aircraft designer for transports where I am balancing, cost, range and payload.
When I first started playing HOI4 I was probably the most excited with the possibility of customizing my own fallschirmjager core. To my disappointment paratroops are kinda lukewarm, between expecting a bit more/user un-friendliness I was pretty let down.
I would paradrop to subscribe, but the buttons are too finicky
What rework?
the escape thing, you have to click enter, not escape.
I like paratroops, because if you can’t get naval supremacy on nations like China or something like that, they are the godlike tier
To add onto your idea about the AI doing it for you, what if you send them to a general, he makes the plan, and then a little pop-up comes onto the screen, and it gives you his plan, and the objectives that the paratroopers have, and then ask you if it’s OK to go through with it
My chief disappointment with paratroopers has nothing to do with how annoying and buggy paradrops are.
I just think airborne divisions have a shitty niche of cheesing the AI without any other real general application to gameplay that makes them worth getting otherwise.
If you have to pick two of the three special forces divisions to invest into, you damn near always go mountaineers and marines because they just have better overall utility than paratroopers.
I wish airborne divisions had more of a niche as elite shock troops and commandos where they could do cool shit that makes paratroopers more useful as a separate branch of the special forces.
Paratroopers suck because I have to read articles and watch youtube videos for an hour to figure out why they won't deploy and then still not be able to figure out what's wrong
I feel like Marines are the only good special forces. They have faster naval invade speed and after you invade they are good and pushing across rivers.
War is not a game. The tactical use of paratroopers is to gain an advantage of a battle plan. This video is total carp.
Maybe they removed the peacetime paradrop so you couldn't get troops into Poland early as an Ally member? Seeing as Danzig is a DMZ until war's declared.
Isn't Gdynia also a port?
The thing is, the more I play, the more I wish I can do less micro? I’m bad at it and I like my logistical gameplay, honestly. Battle planning is fun.
I think it could be cool if the paratroop order had an option to do it via garrison order or something similar, so automatically landing on e.g. ports, railways. Either that or like naval invasions being able to select multiple provinces.
When you hover your's paradrop order arrow - it gaves you a tooltip with explanation about transport planes
It should drop them over a small area instead of through one small province location. After they drop they regroup instead of appearing right away like when you send volunteers. It says they are incoming but you can’t see where until they regroup on the ground. Depending on how quickly they regroup they may be able to sabotage and do +50% damage to buildings and infrastructure but also have a +50% chance to get captured and wiped out before regrouping so risky play if you decide to use them aggressively or tell them to lay low until they fully regroup.
Paratroopers would be better if they worked half the time 😂
One thing i would like to add is the game doesn't seem to allow you to jump onto land you occupied. It would really make sense to use large paratroopers as mobile reserves where you can throw them into points that is breaking. Instead of the 1 division spam and back stab then transform into another division type. Just doesn't make sense as in real life such conversion ( German mariner to infantry) takes a few months atleast. Paratroopers start with 0 organization also don't work, as Paras go into action the moment they land.
They can start with low morale (20%) and work from there. That way Para can do a lot of damage if left unchecked as they should be. Also para supplies need some work, right now they are far too low and plane supply too few, you can't exactly do D Day or Market Garden without a bazzilion transport plane on supply. To balance this they could also be given a penalty to hard attack (as Para are light infantry, and don't carry heavy weaponry around) so armor hard counter them.
You can get a general with a paratrooper trait, it gives an ability like last stand that gives paratroopers full org when they land, but most countries don’t start with one
@@seangallagher9435 It is a real pain to train a general specifically for them. Also paras are best when you open the war with them, they are rather useless if you are already in one. For example, if you go para route, you can hop onto the brits early as germany and shut them down via holland (if you annex them early).
Also paratroopers sometimes just decide to not go at all.
Even if you have everything you need.
I made an achievement run for Brazil recently, trying to get the "Smoking Snakes" achievement (You need to paradrop in Rome as Brazil)
I cheesed it a bit by creating a shit load of horse 2-width divisions, then converting them to 50-width divisions, and that allowed me to have some 20 20-width Airborne divisions with support companies
And heck they were effective
I started my way in Africa. After securing it I dropped in Greece, where the advance ground to a halt
By that time I created 2 armies of basic 21-width infantry (9 inf - 1 art). One was left to hold the line, while I prepared a paradrop from Greece to Italy, and the 2nd was prepared to hold the line in Italy proper, once I paradrop
The first drop was successful, I secured Sicily and Southern Italy, and from there I paradropped to Rome (which, quite in line with Mussolini's military "competence", was left unsecured, much to my pleasure)
So, paratroopers are worth it, and can definitely be used to your advantage. I'm planning to do something of this kind in a run for the German Reich. Because of naval superiority rework, Sea Lion is no longer an option, so I'll try an Air Lion instead.
I parachuted into Soviet Occupied Poland after I had set them up but it was right after I finished the Molotov Ribbentrop pact. This was like 3 days ago. Paratroopers have been giving me headaches for the past week. I wasn't at war with anyone anymore when they parachuted.
Do other war type orders work when you aren't at war? I haven't tried to naval invade myself while at peace so I have no idea
I remember a long time ago I was watching someone give advice on how to play Warcraft III. Some things I knew, some things I didn't, overall it was okay and I appreciated the insight into certain things. But the top comment under the video was "Clicker newb thinks they can give gaming advice". Because he wasn't using keyboard shortcuts, but using the mouse.
Been twenty years, but listening to you talk about things like "Look, not everyone has spent that much time in the game. Some people need tool tips, some people need to know what is wrong, some people don't understand basic mechanics that you with your 2K+ hours in the game do" really jogs that memory.
Like these 'really smart, talented and not at all socially awkward people' have trouble comprehending that there may be things they know that other people don't.
I believe if you hover over the order or maybe its the green arrow you click to exectute the order and it will tell you why its not happening. It does tell you somewhere when you dont have enough planes or air seperiority.
I think casualties from air drops make sense because of how risky they were in those times. Doesn't have to be death but you can pretty easily break something
Gotta press enter after doing your paradrop order
I must say i never touched this game. And thats why. Idiotic. Game is so unreallistic. You drop Paratroopers at night. So why you would need Air superiority. Clunky mechanics ruin the game basicly. So i did not miss much that i never played this game. Is my conclusion.
Paratroopers SUCK in WW2 irl as well. Talking about Crete, Market Garden, and other failed paradrops that I can't really remember.
Ideally, paratroopers shall work like the Russians attempted to do with Hostomel where paratroopers take over an airport and flood it with additional troops by air. The fact that HOI4 airports are still based on provinces instead of tiles (put it in another way, air bases should have worked like naval bases) and the inability to transport troops by air (I get it, you can't transport armor divisions in WW2 by air but at least you can do something?...) is what, in my opinion, really rendered paratroopers useless.
I dunno if anyone tried this or is it a viable tactics but you can train 'disposable' paradrop battalions and drop them at enemy railway junctions to disrupt the supply lines, then again it is not worth it.
Soviet focus tree is completely absurd. You can get 20% special forces cap and easily field 48 20w divisions by 1943. Id like to see a sliding scale mechanic implemented for special forces. Higher cap for lower quality total army with division limits like kaiserreich.
The special forces research would be much improved if it increased your minimum special forces limit. If it went from 24 to 36 to 48, it wouldn't change anything for major nations but for minors like Canada, NZ and other low manpower nations they can realistically get more special forces.
I stopped using paras after they got fucking obliterataed the moment I launched them
when they FUCKING CHOSE TO LAUNCH
And I though I was noob for not knowing how paratroopers work in HOI4! LOL!
Now I'm just noob for not knowing how to maintain manpower during long wars. Yey!
Paratroopers work when they feel like I find, sometimes I can drop into England other times nothing happens........🤣
I play with a few basic mods (player led peace confrences, state transfer tool, beautiful states(or whatever its called now)) and for some reason paratroopers crash my game?
Yeah, paradroping is a waste of time at the moment. It would be great if you could airlift units from one airport to another.
would you not just press enter to confirm the paradrop order? or just click the paradrop button again
❤
As a mountaineer, I completly agree!
Would not be cool if the AI could Para drop naval invasions are bad enough
yknow what why not make transport planes equipment for paratroopers to use.
DEFINATELY get a shortcut PDX!
I am with Team Feedback--Screw Paradox!
14:40 It's the same as naval invasions and it's so annoying. I always want to invade multiple provinces with the same army group, just in case 1 fails, especially if taking a port fails or gets bogged down, I can just surround the port with the other landings. But the system to make the orders and then assign units to each of those orders is so annoying.
They said my paratroopers were weak...
Yeah, but can you paradrop a ship?
3:13 you press enter after clicking the destination, not ESC
Why do you sound like DanTDM
They ask us to pay $20 on a game that is not fully developed.
I will be on the side of piracy for this one.
Mate, you have no idea what you're talking about, and it's showing, you play HOI4 for the mods.
At least HoI has troops period.
You’re insane, but right
怎麼你自己不太懂的東西也可以拿出來講上半個小時然後說幾十次"我不知道"
Interesting ♨now 💝😋
Don't quite remember how, but the game did give me a tooltip saying that I didn't have enough transport planes for the paradrop. I think I might've moved the cursor over the plan on the map itself. However, this was in a mod for Hoi4, so it might've been a case of the mod being better than the base game.
Well, it does tell you why the order isn't starting but you must hover over the "arrow" itself and it will show. But paras are still bugged AH, I use them only when I play Germany and only if I cannot gain the 50% naval supremacy to invade Britain. In a recent game I launched the order but only one of them executed (I put multiple orders around the port and on port itself) and I had to figure out why isn't it working and it was the amount of transports (it's almost always the amount of transports). In the end yeah, guess they aren't as convenient as naval invasions but personally for me they are super satisfying and I love the concept itself