Gotta say, didnt think id start my morning off seeing you in some hot topic fishnet looking gear. I think you pushed me to give it a try, but im leaving the dark eyeliner at home.
Dark eyeliner reduces glare from the snow and increases your perceived threat level to bears. Studded collars and belts also make you a less appealing meal for a bear or mountain lion. Large baggy pants have more storage options while skinny jeans make you more aerodynamic.
My son served a year in the Norwegian Air Force as a guard for the F-35 squadron. They would do several days training out in the deep woods in -20c temps. They used Brynje wool net base layers. My wife, his mother, used wool net back in the 80’s as a Red Cross volunteer out in -40 temps. It works. It has for ages. Use it.
Near the end of Sept and into Oct I hiked from flagstaff Arizona to the Grand Canyon. Spent a few days before going down and after coming up, camping at the south rim. I then hiked back to flagstaff. It was 104f at the bottom of the canyon. When hiking to and from the canyon most miles are exposed to the sun. It was 85F + most of the time during the day. I wore a cheap mesh base layer with a button 30 spf long sleeve hiking shirt overtop. For the most part the hiking shirt was unbuttoned and opened up a little at the front. Any breeze and you could feel the evaporation off your body which had a cooling effect. When I stopped hiking for the day I hung the hiking shirt up to dry and just wore the mesh layer. To go to sleep I put a tshirt overtop of the mesh layer and had a light sleeping bag. I was very happy with how the mesh layer worked both during the day and for night time.
I tend to sweat more than most, it is easy for me to saturate every base layer while hiking and once the layers are wet evaporation cooling causes much greater and quicker heat loss. This is where the 4to 6 times warmer claim comes from in my experience. This is where the dummy in the cooler test falls way short of real life in my opinion- no sweating simulation. Couple of factors in play with the Brynje base layer- it is polypropylene, a hydrophobic fabric so it does not absorb moisture. Being a mesh, moisture quickly moves through it to the next layer. The next factor to making this work is to have the next layers function as a system to keep moving the moisture outward. So the mid insulation layers and shell characteristics are critical. Down to freezing all I need is a polyester shirt, either a sun hoodie or summer weight sun shirt while hiking. I’ll Moderate body temperature with hat, neck gator and or glove choices as needed. If it’s windy a light nylon windbreaker is all I need. Once the temperature drops into the 20’s , I like a mid layer of either alpha direct or alpaca as either fabric is a good insulator while breathing well and holding minimal moisture. Merino wool mid layers absorb more moisture than alpaca and I sweat too much for merino to be effective. When I do stop for a break, it is easy to stay warm with a puffy because my layers are mostly dry. Been a game changer for me.
I started using this last year - it’s an amazing layer that I’ve grown to love. It performs excellently under a breathable layer like a windbreaker - don’t choke it off under a rain jacket.
Brynje made the PE version really hydrophobic. So even under a raincoat, it should still be warmer as it let the sweat bead up and run off and maintain air pockets around you.
@@jnrfalconrespectfully disagree. Rain coat (any of the Goretex or similar) will not move moisture fast enough for a high sweat situation and eventually will get cold. Any mid layers will also wet out, same cold result for those who sweat a lot like myself.
I've used these for a little bit in the military. It's tough get things to breath under plates while moving through mountains but this has helped a ton.
6 годин тому+1
Yeap, used to be a standard issue in the Finnish army. It’s been a while, maybe they still use it.
I love all videos MyLifeOutdoors does. Thanks for sharing the information you have, the information you learn, and your love of what you do. I only wish someone, or you, would make a video where the gear did not cost so much but it would last. As someone who is just trying to get into the hobby of backpacking, camping, and hiking I am not going to spend $200+ on a backpack, sleeping pad, sleeping bag, etc. The shirt for this video, it is mostly holes, but costs $70. That is 30% less than the last time I looked when it was $100 but still that seems outrageous for a shirt.
Having just switched over this week I can say I am impressed. Picked up a very basic polyester long sleeved fishnet top for around $20. Using only that as a base layer, 1/4 zip waffletop, and a Goretex shell I went on a 10 mile hump (20°F) with a 25lb pack to prove them wrong, but it performed flawlessly. Never before have I gone on a hike (with a pack) and have my back feel completely dry. The ability to move moisture and thereby regulating temperature is a trip, literally. 😁🤘😎
i had a short sleeve poly fishnet top with solid shoulders to accommodate shoulder straps around 1990 from LL Bean. I found it great for winter hiking by just unbuttoning my dress weight wool shirt to vent. I no longer have the fishnet, but I still often were a button up shirt so I can vent my torso by using the buttons. Glad they are back!
Started using Brynje mesh shirts for mt biking a bit over a year ago. Absolutely love 'em. The warmth is there when its cold, but they also stay comfy even when its warmer temps (50-60F). Great for the 'cool' weather, as I describe it acting as temperature moderation. I may be a bit warm on the climbs, even with outer layers venting, but when I stop or get to the top, I don't have the wet, clammy, and clingy base layer chilling me down. Which is even more noticeable when you start going back down right away; close up the outer layers and I may be a bit cool, but not being chilled is wonderful.
I'm an intermediate crocheter and this look fairly easy to make at home. If anyone happens to have any advice do let me know! I'll update with progress.
This takes me back to my Alberta winters in the 1980's. I would wear a cotton fishnet underlayer (next to skin), then a wool midlayer. The fishnet would wick moisture from the skin, to be held in the wool layer. Putting a downfill parka on top, and I was good to -40.
Love that you finally made a video about the mesh base layers. I've only used my Brynje layers once this winter, but I was SO impressed. Just a nice windbreaker and the mesh and I was good going up steep inclines around 20F on average. Didn't overheat, and even if I did, all I had to do was open up my windbreaker and INSTANTLY cool off.
I am a Norwegian and have been using Brynje mesh layers for more than 30 years. Nothing beats it. Use it with a thin wool layer over it on colder days.
I was in Svalbard this past summer on a hiking trip. And our guide had the exact setup, Brynje mesh with Keb on top. Though it wasn't that cold, about 40F. I had another regular base layer on top of my mesh and I was slightly too warm.
If you've ever used a waffle weave baselayer like the old Patagonia thermal weights, you get why this makes sense. Waffle weave is basically just a mesh inner layer combined with a thin knit outer layer.
Poor wonky camera. Excellent comparison! I thought the mesh base clothing was just a gimmick or a marketing noise but it looks legit. Thank you for the video!
I bought the merino version last year and have been using it as a base layer for winter mountain biking and fat tire biking. It feels weird against the skin at first, but you get used to it. And definitely seems to keep me warner, less sweaty base layer.
I like your scientific approach and appreciate the time it must take to do the tests. Fifty years ago (I’m 75) I remember using cotton mesh t shirts when hiking (there was no alternative fabrics available) and it kind of worked, but now I’ll give these new stuff a try.
Hi Steven, Antuan from the classic. It was great to meet you in the Fjallraven classic. Looking forward to your content and wishing you continued success!
Amazing! Thank you for the video. I live in a warmer climate, but I see the advantages. An interesting test would be hot weather hiking. Look,forward to your summer test video. Cheers Vancouver Island Canada .
Finally was able to score a Senchi. In fact, I got 2. Had to camp out (well, not really) for the Dec 17 drop to score the 90. I was dubious, but HammerHollywood finally convinced me on his PCT through hike. This thing is unbelievable. From literally the instant I draw it over my head I can feel amazing heat retention. And it weighs nearly nothing at all. Packs down to the size of a baseball, if that. Now that you've shown me this base layer, well I'm just gonna have to have it too. I think that this, with my OV sun hoodie as a mid, then the Senchi over that I'd be just about set for any and every type of weather. Rain shell and puffy, I'd be just about impervious. And it would all weigh just ounces. Stoked to try this all out this winter!
I own three pieces, long and short sleeved shirts and a pair of long johns. I love them, and at night I pair them with a 250 weight merino wool mid layer and they keep me very warm.
I think the laboratory style tests are even more impressive in that they don’t include the effects of water being trapped in a solid base layer, which then requires energy to be evaporated. The overall energy savings may not be four times as much as a solid layer, but it’s definitely more than 20%.
Depends on the material, wool generates heat when it absorbs water, so absorbing sweat is actually an intentional part of how wool baselayers keep you warm.
@ that’s interesting. However is seems that the heat of vaporization of water is going to be 2 to 3 times higher than the amount of heat generated by the absorption of water into the wool.
@@BurfieldPhoto1 plus to get the water out of the wool you have to inject that same amount of energy to reverse the reaction when the water absorbs into the wool.
@@BurfieldPhoto1 that’s literally the entire point. Remember, you were arguing that wool can be warmer because it releases heat when it absorbs water. Well to reverse that process, it takes heat out of the system, and then to evaporate the water. It takes more heat out of the system, cooling the person. We don’t want that. That’s why I was arguing initially that because the mesh layer doesn’t absorb a lot of water and allows water vapor to escape theoretically through the pit zips, there’s nothing in the garment to cool the person down once they stop moving because there’s nothing to evaporate.
As a Norwegian I have used Brynje for over 30 years. They’re great, except for the look. Remember sun screen if you wear them bare in sunny winter weather. The sun burns looks weird. I once forgot sun screen on a 12 hour glacier hike, and got hundreds of diamond shaped blisters.
Mesh and fishnet layers have been around for a century or more. Not sure how that's a "new craze". We were using them 40 years ago for mountaineering, but those were still cotton as opposed to Schoeller polypropylene or merino wool. The cotton didn't work as well, but it still worked due to how little material there was to capture and hold moisture.
I have a cheap (~$20?) polypro long sleeve cycling mesh shirt that I use for winter cycling and hiking - the back when under a backpack does hold some sweat, but unlike my other synthetic shirts it doesn’t gain any stink, presumably because it’s not absorbing/wicking much sweat. I would like to try a Brynje (polypro or wool) to see if it performs better, but they are pricy.
I got mesh baselayers for two reasons: 1) I wanted to stay/feel drier while hiking with a pack during winter camping trips where I sweat a lot even in -30°C (-22°F). Knowing it's actually warmer is a bonus! 2) When I'm on the water paddling in cooler and windy conditions, I wanted the mesh to keep my damp shirt or racing jersey off my skin.
I didnt realise this wasnt a think in hiking/backpacking already - I came from the cycling world and they have always been commonplace from all the main manufacturers and used by all the cycling teams. A mesh base layer can also keep you cooler in the summer. Becauase I already had them from cycling for the last 15 years, when I started hiking I just used them automatically.
We've been wearing these for a few decades on the bike because we will sweat like crazy and then need it to dry out quickly for the high speed descent. Occasionally I'll use them hiking.
I appreciate the scientific approach you have to your work, which really sets you apart from the majority of "gear" channels in my mind. One thing that would have been nice in my opinion would have been to elaborate on the experiment a bit more by comparing different types of baselayer and comparing wet and dry, and also having a control (no baselayer). Oh, and running each top several times to get an average. I'm talking for the freezer experiment obviously, not trekking up and down a mountain twenty times... hah! I guess what I am saying is the level of science is fun from the perspective of an entertaining youtube video, and don't get me wrong, I really appreciate it, but with only a little bit more work you could actually be producing meaningful scientific data as well.
I bought a nylon mesh top off of Amazon and it’s amazing with my Wiggys gear. Granted I don’t know how it would work with other types of insulation, it’d probably be good with wool. Wiggys uses Lamilite. It’s a continuous filament coated in silicone. It’s infinitely compressible and it’s impervious to moisture. I’ve worn my Wiggys gear hiking up the side of a mountain at -25. Sweating like crazy and stayed hot. Wiggys sleeping bags are great for car camping because the moisture build up in the car won’t affect the bag. Wiggys has been selling fish net long underwear for quite a while. And they’ve been using fishnet for long underwear in Scandinavia for decades.
I got wiggy's top and bottom mesh last year for my birthday. I don't find it as comfortable to wear as a polyester mesh top/bottom i bought on Amazon. I also found i couldn't get my foot through the ankle opening on the wiggy's underwear bottoms - that no stretch fiber. Is it really best for times of activity? What do you wear overtop of the wiggy’s? I just got a mid layer BD insulated alpine start jacket (wind breaking but breathable outer shell with alpha direct lining some places inside). Maybe that's the proper combination?
Thanks for the data based video. I’ve been looking at mesh for about a year but haven’t pulled the trigger yet. I’m a cold sleeper. I wonder if the mesh under a light second layer would add the same warmth while sleeping, or do you have to be active?
Hardly a "new craze" - Hilary and Tensing used Brinje on their first ascent of Everest. I've been using it for decades. Properly used a mesh base-layer is greatly superior in cold weather. But he's not using it properly - it's important to cap the mesh with a light, wicking, tight fitting top to trap the warm air. I use a fast-drying synthetic base-layer top with a deep zip, so I can quickly dump heat when required. Another advantage is the speed of drying if you do get wet. In my experience, a hand-wrung mesh top will dry completely on the body in under 20 minutes. This means you can wash it in any stream and put it back on. That way it doesn't stink up. On long treks, I simply wear it 24/7.
More testing still needed. The mesh was warmer because the mannequin was completely static those holes were holding the air. Once you move all that air escapes. Therefore the mesh is warmer when completly still or when super active (sweating) but probably less warm with mild activities like walking from one spot of camp to the other. My theory is if he put a small fan in the freezer to circulate and simulate a small wind the mesh would definitly not be as warm as tight-knit
NATO gets their training in arctic warfare in northern norway, we issue netting to all soldiers. Have personally used these for the past three years. It works. Get some. Have not noticed any particular issue with the activity level you mention here.
@@ZukaraTheGameregardless you'd be layering. I think it's safe to say it'd keep you warm because your sweat would dry quicker in mesh. Keeping you warm under all those layers.
Seems an interesting alternative to thermic polyester layer, which has the drawback of smelling upon sweating. So my question is: does mesh layers also smell, or due to the large holes sweat is not trapped into the tissue?
What about cotton/thermal? What's the latest on that? Works for me and is super comfy. Also, when all else fails I grab a thick beanie and sometimes a scarf around the neck.
Does it make sense to put a thin wool base layer on top of the mesh weave, or does that completely eliminate the whole point? Just trying to think about how to deal with those extra cold days in the mountains
For sure. If you see chilled in just the mesh and a shell…add a wool layer. If you get warm hiking and start to sweat the wool layer might be too much. Layering is all about managing sweat because that is what will make you cold once you stop moving
This is far from a “new craze”. My father has been wearing “fishnet” long underwear since the mid-‘60’s, and he is the antithesis of a trendsetter (although he made his living outdoors). It has been a well-known style in Scandinavian countries for years. Despite my good-natured ribbing about his “holy underwear” he is steadfast in his loyalty to this style.
Well if it gets enough press and gains in popularity maybe competition will cause more makers to bring out products so I can try some without breaking the bank.
I would love to wear mesh, not just for outdoors, but also for activities where any clothing is useless/counter-productive, but mandatory for reasons of etiquette. Like at the tennis club in summer. Sadly, I haven't seen a mesh top yet that doesn't scream "gay night club".
Took you a while to catch up. And by you I mean society. This tech has been around for decades. It’s great that it’s finally getting traction though, it’s gonna get cheaper with mass production
It's probably similar to sleeping in a sleeping bag with less clothes because it allows the body heat to be more easily reflected back onto you. But I'm not gonna act like I know much about it.
Mesh base layers is not new. We wore them decades ago before they disappeared from the market. They stunk more than the current iteration, but they worked. The new stuff is great.
The only purpose of the base layer is to pull moister away from the body. If the base layer does not have vent holes like what is found in pro clothing you will overheat. Cycling t-shirts that are pro have vent holes on them. The fabric NEEDS to be in full contact, mesh is an awful idea. The layers over the base NEED to be breathable and are often very thin to allow the moister to travel thought... HOWEVER, you still need air movement through what you are wearing. Active wear jacket not a shell is required. When you wear a shell you are not allowing the body to cool down enough but in cold weather -20c and colder you will need to add the outer shell. From what I have tested even a base layer t-shirt (poly), light poly sweater, and a light merino wool sweater can keep you warm. BUT that is only if you have worked up a sweat. When the winds pick up, which it will on a cold day and you slow down even a little you will freeze you A** off. So instead of the outer shell an active wear solution would be better. Loose the outer shell and wear an active wear jacket (very breathable) with your normal base layers. Maker sure you have a merino layer on. If you are out carry a light weight backpack and store another merino layer and your outer shell. Plus other light stuff. The mesh stuff is solving a problem that does not need to be solved. The only purpose of the base layer is to pull moister, NOT keep you warm. Even without a base layer (would be weird) your body will still sweat. Air movement is good for mesh as a spacer but not next to skin... Same reason why heaver base layers don't work right as such needs to be fairly thin to allow the moister to pass through. All other layers need to be fairly light to allow moister to go through. If you are over heating look at your outer shell and consider active wear. If you get cold reach into your backpack and put on a layer or outer shell. Also the temp range is NOT indicated... Wear mesh in -25c to -35c and you will freeze your A** off and you would need more control of keeping the heat in. It is like the difference in tucking in your t-shirt or sweater into your pants in respect to temp difference. Later,
how is this a new thing? :D its been around for decades and used in the nordic countries, has its benifits (thats why cyclists and cross country skiies have used them for long) but also some drawbacks for 3 season backpacking - but for being active in winter time... great stuff :)
The only problem I have with these videos is I find a technology that's awesome, almost nobody is talking about it and then the UA-cam guys find out about it and now it seems like I'm copying them. It's all good. We're all on this journey to find what works best for us.
Gotta say, didnt think id start my morning off seeing you in some hot topic fishnet looking gear. I think you pushed me to give it a try, but im leaving the dark eyeliner at home.
Dark eyeliner reduces glare from the snow and increases your perceived threat level to bears. Studded collars and belts also make you a less appealing meal for a bear or mountain lion. Large baggy pants have more storage options while skinny jeans make you more aerodynamic.
@@arnoldkotlyarevsky383 Ill believe it when I see Steven make a video to prove it. Having more storage options is always nice.
@@RyanZuidema It is WAY too early for all these visuals lol
lol! My son begged me not to post this!
This is the level of quality that all threads on UA-cam should aspire to.
It also allows you to blend seamlessly into the early 2000s German rave scene
Now's the time on Sprockets when we dance
And American goth clubs
😂😂😂😂😂
@@Almedius76 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
My son served a year in the Norwegian Air Force as a guard for the F-35 squadron. They would do several days training out in the deep woods in -20c temps. They used Brynje wool net base layers. My wife, his mother, used wool net back in the 80’s as a Red Cross volunteer out in -40 temps. It works. It has for ages. Use it.
Nothing new. I knew this technology back in the 1970s. Problem is getting the kit now.
Near the end of Sept and into Oct I hiked from flagstaff Arizona to the Grand Canyon. Spent a few days before going down and after coming up, camping at the south rim. I then hiked back to flagstaff. It was 104f at the bottom of the canyon. When hiking to and from the canyon most miles are exposed to the sun. It was 85F + most of the time during the day.
I wore a cheap mesh base layer with a button 30 spf long sleeve hiking shirt overtop. For the most part the hiking shirt was unbuttoned and opened up a little at the front. Any breeze and you could feel the evaporation off your body which had a cooling effect. When I stopped hiking for the day I hung the hiking shirt up to dry and just wore the mesh layer. To go to sleep I put a tshirt overtop of the mesh layer and had a light sleeping bag. I was very happy with how the mesh layer worked both during the day and for night time.
I tend to sweat more than most, it is easy for me to saturate every base layer while hiking and once the layers are wet evaporation cooling causes much greater and quicker heat loss. This is where the 4to 6 times warmer claim comes from in my experience. This is where the dummy in the cooler test falls way short of real life in my opinion- no sweating simulation. Couple of factors in play with the Brynje base layer- it is polypropylene, a hydrophobic fabric so it does not absorb moisture. Being a mesh, moisture quickly moves through it to the next layer. The next factor to making this work is to have the next layers function as a system to keep moving the moisture outward. So the mid insulation layers and shell characteristics are critical. Down to freezing all I need is a polyester shirt, either a sun hoodie or summer weight sun shirt while hiking. I’ll
Moderate body temperature with hat, neck gator and or glove choices as needed. If it’s windy a light nylon windbreaker is all I need. Once the temperature drops into the 20’s , I like a mid layer of either alpha direct or alpaca as either fabric is a good insulator while breathing well and holding minimal moisture. Merino wool mid layers absorb more moisture than alpaca and I sweat too much for merino to be effective. When I do stop for a break, it is easy to stay warm with a puffy because my layers are mostly dry. Been a game changer for me.
I started using this last year - it’s an amazing layer that I’ve grown to love. It performs excellently under a breathable layer like a windbreaker - don’t choke it off under a rain jacket.
Brynje made the PE version really hydrophobic. So even under a raincoat, it should still be warmer as it let the sweat bead up and run off and maintain air pockets around you.
@@jnrfalconrespectfully disagree. Rain coat (any of the Goretex or similar) will not move moisture fast enough for a high sweat situation and eventually will get cold. Any mid layers will also wet out, same cold result for those who sweat a lot like myself.
My experience also
I've used these for a little bit in the military. It's tough get things to breath under plates while moving through mountains but this has helped a ton.
Yeap, used to be a standard issue in the Finnish army. It’s been a while, maybe they still use it.
If they had a PHD for backpacking you sir would have it. Outstanding job.
I love all videos MyLifeOutdoors does. Thanks for sharing the information you have, the information you learn, and your love of what you do.
I only wish someone, or you, would make a video where the gear did not cost so much but it would last. As someone who is just trying to get into the hobby of backpacking, camping, and hiking I am not going to spend $200+ on a backpack, sleeping pad, sleeping bag, etc.
The shirt for this video, it is mostly holes, but costs $70. That is 30% less than the last time I looked when it was $100 but still that seems outrageous for a shirt.
Having just switched over this week I can say I am impressed.
Picked up a very basic polyester long sleeved fishnet top for around $20. Using only that as a base layer, 1/4 zip waffletop, and a Goretex shell I went on a 10 mile hump (20°F) with a 25lb pack to prove them wrong, but it performed flawlessly. Never before have I gone on a hike (with a pack) and have my back feel completely dry. The ability to move moisture and thereby regulating temperature is a trip, literally. 😁🤘😎
i had a short sleeve poly fishnet top with solid shoulders to accommodate shoulder straps around 1990 from LL Bean. I found it great for winter hiking by just unbuttoning my dress weight wool shirt to vent. I no longer have the fishnet, but I still often were a button up shirt so I can vent my torso by using the buttons. Glad they are back!
Started using Brynje mesh shirts for mt biking a bit over a year ago. Absolutely love 'em. The warmth is there when its cold, but they also stay comfy even when its warmer temps (50-60F). Great for the 'cool' weather, as I describe it acting as temperature moderation. I may be a bit warm on the climbs, even with outer layers venting, but when I stop or get to the top, I don't have the wet, clammy, and clingy base layer chilling me down. Which is even more noticeable when you start going back down right away; close up the outer layers and I may be a bit cool, but not being chilled is wonderful.
I'm an intermediate crocheter and this look fairly easy to make at home. If anyone happens to have any advice do let me know! I'll update with progress.
This is an interesting take! 👀
Use merino wool, cotton will soak up all the sweat and synthetic threads don’t have the right structure to be used for outdoor wear.
@@jr_kulik synthetic is just fine, although it retains odor more than wool.
@jr_kulik I'd use merino wool as well. I crochet too. I think I'll try making a fishnet shirt.
This takes me back to my Alberta winters in the 1980's. I would wear a cotton fishnet underlayer (next to skin), then a wool midlayer. The fishnet would wick moisture from the skin, to be held in the wool layer. Putting a downfill parka on top, and I was good to -40.
Thanks for putting actual science to work on this question!
In retrospect, the success of waffle fleece mids (like Patagonia's R1) suggest similar results....just applied to base layers.
An R1 Air and a breathable wind shell - Kor Airshell - are insanely useful in sub freezing hiking. I love that combo.
Mmmm waffles... And maple syrup...
Love that you finally made a video about the mesh base layers. I've only used my Brynje layers once this winter, but I was SO impressed. Just a nice windbreaker and the mesh and I was good going up steep inclines around 20F on average. Didn't overheat, and even if I did, all I had to do was open up my windbreaker and INSTANTLY cool off.
I am a Norwegian and have been using Brynje mesh layers for more than 30 years. Nothing beats it. Use it with a thin wool layer over it on colder days.
I was in Svalbard this past summer on a hiking trip. And our guide had the exact setup, Brynje mesh with Keb on top. Though it wasn't that cold, about 40F. I had another regular base layer on top of my mesh and I was slightly too warm.
Ive used the Brynje for 15 years in my outdooractivities. The best there is. Whool on top for ekstra warmth.
If you've ever used a waffle weave baselayer like the old Patagonia thermal weights, you get why this makes sense. Waffle weave is basically just a mesh inner layer combined with a thin knit outer layer.
Mmmm waffles.... With maple syrup...
The super thermo stinks because it's polyester but the Merino wool ones are almost odourless. Id recommend those better
@truepaulesco to each their own
Its polypropylene. At least mine is.
I really appreciate the effort you put into these tests. Super useful. Tx!
Poor wonky camera. Excellent comparison! I thought the mesh base clothing was just a gimmick or a marketing noise but it looks legit. Thank you for the video!
Don’t forget the fishnet with matching Zpacks ultralight titanium nipple rings! 😉
I bought the merino version last year and have been using it as a base layer for winter mountain biking and fat tire biking. It feels weird against the skin at first, but you get used to it. And definitely seems to keep me warner, less sweaty base layer.
50 shades of hiking
Never heard of this style of base layer, but will give it a try sometime. Thanks!
Wow. I did not expect that outcome. Thanks for the video.
I like your scientific approach and appreciate the time it must take to do the tests. Fifty years ago (I’m 75) I remember using cotton mesh t shirts when hiking (there was no alternative fabrics available) and it kind of worked, but now I’ll give these new stuff a try.
Hi Steven, Antuan from the classic. It was great to meet you in the Fjallraven classic. Looking forward to your content and wishing you continued success!
Hey Antuan! Thanks for watching and dropping a comment!
Awesome topic. Timely and well done. Thanks Steven!
Thank you. I had been considering a mesh base layer, bought it , but hadn't used it yet.
Since a year I swear by mesh undergear when biking. I thought it was insane, but it got me to give it a try. Works great.
Amazing! Thank you for the video. I live in a warmer climate, but I see the advantages. An interesting test would be hot weather hiking. Look,forward to your summer test video. Cheers Vancouver Island Canada .
Finally was able to score a Senchi. In fact, I got 2. Had to camp out (well, not really) for the Dec 17 drop to score the 90. I was dubious, but HammerHollywood finally convinced me on his PCT through hike. This thing is unbelievable. From literally the instant I draw it over my head I can feel amazing heat retention. And it weighs nearly nothing at all. Packs down to the size of a baseball, if that. Now that you've shown me this base layer, well I'm just gonna have to have it too. I think that this, with my OV sun hoodie as a mid, then the Senchi over that I'd be just about set for any and every type of weather. Rain shell and puffy, I'd be just about impervious. And it would all weigh just ounces. Stoked to try this all out this winter!
I own three pieces, long and short sleeved shirts and a pair of long johns. I love them, and at night I pair them with a 250 weight merino wool mid layer and they keep me very warm.
With the string vest and that beard you look like you might be about to break unto a rendition of “Y.M.C.A” at any moment.
So long as he isn't claiming it's a gay anthem otherwise Victor Willis will come for you
I think the laboratory style tests are even more impressive in that they don’t include the effects of water being trapped in a solid base layer, which then requires energy to be evaporated. The overall energy savings may not be four times as much as a solid layer, but it’s definitely more than 20%.
Depends on the material, wool generates heat when it absorbs water, so absorbing sweat is actually an intentional part of how wool baselayers keep you warm.
@ that’s interesting. However is seems that the heat of vaporization of water is going to be 2 to 3 times higher than the amount of heat generated by the absorption of water into the wool.
@@BurfieldPhoto1 plus to get the water out of the wool you have to inject that same amount of energy to reverse the reaction when the water absorbs into the wool.
@@mbmurphy777 evaporation causes cooling, not heating. That's literally the point of sweat.
@@BurfieldPhoto1 that’s literally the entire point. Remember, you were arguing that wool can be warmer because it releases heat when it absorbs water. Well to reverse that process, it takes heat out of the system, and then to evaporate the water. It takes more heat out of the system, cooling the person.
We don’t want that. That’s why I was arguing initially that because the mesh layer doesn’t absorb a lot of water and allows water vapor to escape theoretically through the pit zips, there’s nothing in the garment to cool the person down once they stop moving because there’s nothing to evaporate.
Alpha Direct over mesh is all I need on this on this warm 50* Colorado day.
alpha direct is mesh with fluff sewn in so why bother with the extra mesh layer?
i use alpha 60 as my baselayer
@PHYSIZIST because it's comfortable. I don't need a wind shirt.
@@terryelam7010 fair enuf
Great video. One of the most thoughtful and scientific analyses I’ve seen in a long while.
Very interesting results.
As a Norwegian I have used Brynje for over 30 years. They’re great, except for the look. Remember sun screen if you wear them bare in sunny winter weather. The sun burns looks weird. I once forgot sun screen on a 12 hour glacier hike, and got hundreds of diamond shaped blisters.
Bought one of these to wear under my motorcycle armor. I am looking forward to testing it.
Great video! I love the testing setup.
Mesh and fishnet layers have been around for a century or more. Not sure how that's a "new craze".
We were using them 40 years ago for mountaineering, but those were still cotton as opposed to Schoeller polypropylene or merino wool. The cotton didn't work as well, but it still worked due to how little material there was to capture and hold moisture.
Welcome to the mesh club mate.
I have a cheap (~$20?) polypro long sleeve cycling mesh shirt that I use for winter cycling and hiking - the back when under a backpack does hold some sweat, but unlike my other synthetic shirts it doesn’t gain any stink, presumably because it’s not absorbing/wicking much sweat.
I would like to try a Brynje (polypro or wool) to see if it performs better, but they are pricy.
What a timings, I was investigating about this products from Norway. Boy they are expensive!!
Even in the summer I like to wear shirts with a mesh; they seem to breath a lot better.
I got mesh baselayers for two reasons: 1) I wanted to stay/feel drier while hiking with a pack during winter camping trips where I sweat a lot even in -30°C (-22°F). Knowing it's actually warmer is a bonus! 2) When I'm on the water paddling in cooler and windy conditions, I wanted the mesh to keep my damp shirt or racing jersey off my skin.
I didnt realise this wasnt a think in hiking/backpacking already - I came from the cycling world and they have always been commonplace from all the main manufacturers and used by all the cycling teams. A mesh base layer can also keep you cooler in the summer. Becauase I already had them from cycling for the last 15 years, when I started hiking I just used them automatically.
Been waiting for you to make this video!
We've been wearing these for a few decades on the bike because we will sweat like crazy and then need it to dry out quickly for the high speed descent. Occasionally I'll use them hiking.
I appreciate the scientific approach you have to your work, which really sets you apart from the majority of "gear" channels in my mind. One thing that would have been nice in my opinion would have been to elaborate on the experiment a bit more by comparing different types of baselayer and comparing wet and dry, and also having a control (no baselayer). Oh, and running each top several times to get an average. I'm talking for the freezer experiment obviously, not trekking up and down a mountain twenty times... hah!
I guess what I am saying is the level of science is fun from the perspective of an entertaining youtube video, and don't get me wrong, I really appreciate it, but with only a little bit more work you could actually be producing meaningful scientific data as well.
Oh no the camera!! 😂😂
Thanks for sharing Steven! I couldn’t believe it myself either! 👍🏻
I bought a nylon mesh top off of Amazon and it’s amazing with my Wiggys gear. Granted I don’t know how it would work with other types of insulation, it’d probably be good with wool.
Wiggys uses Lamilite. It’s a continuous filament coated in silicone. It’s infinitely compressible and it’s impervious to moisture. I’ve worn my Wiggys gear hiking up the side of a mountain at -25. Sweating like crazy and stayed hot. Wiggys sleeping bags are great for car camping because the moisture build up in the car won’t affect the bag.
Wiggys has been selling fish net long underwear for quite a while. And they’ve been using fishnet for long underwear in Scandinavia for decades.
I got wiggy's top and bottom mesh last year for my birthday. I don't find it as comfortable to wear as a polyester mesh top/bottom i bought on Amazon.
I also found i couldn't get my foot through the ankle opening on the wiggy's underwear bottoms - that no stretch fiber. Is it really best for times of activity?
What do you wear overtop of the wiggy’s?
I just got a mid layer BD insulated alpine start jacket (wind breaking but breathable outer shell with alpha direct lining some places inside). Maybe that's the proper combination?
Thanks for the data based video. I’ve been looking at mesh for about a year but haven’t pulled the trigger yet. I’m a cold sleeper. I wonder if the mesh under a light second layer would add the same warmth while sleeping, or do you have to be active?
Those fishnet underlayers are the fucking bomb. Honestly - they're amazing. Hands down the best thing I've bought for cold weather.
The next experiment would be comparing different weave hole sizes and mesh materials to see if there's a sweet spot.
How does it compare to Polartec Alpha?
Hardly a "new craze" - Hilary and Tensing used Brinje on their first ascent of Everest. I've been using it for decades. Properly used a mesh base-layer is greatly superior in cold weather. But he's not using it properly - it's important to cap the mesh with a light, wicking, tight fitting top to trap the warm air. I use a fast-drying synthetic base-layer top with a deep zip, so I can quickly dump heat when required. Another advantage is the speed of drying if you do get wet. In my experience, a hand-wrung mesh top will dry completely on the body in under 20 minutes. This means you can wash it in any stream and put it back on. That way it doesn't stink up. On long treks, I simply wear it 24/7.
Garage Grown Gear says it all!
I have seen truckers using diving wetsuits as insulation in extreme cold conditions of far north. Curious to try it.
I'm going to wear mine while using Meshtastic
It’s all I wear now. It makes a BIG difference.
I've been thinking bout trying some fishnet but am not convinced..excited to see ur conclusion
More testing still needed.
The mesh was warmer because the mannequin was completely static those holes were holding the air. Once you move all that air escapes. Therefore the mesh is warmer when completly still or when super active (sweating) but probably less warm with mild activities like walking from one spot of camp to the other.
My theory is if he put a small fan in the freezer to circulate and simulate a small wind the mesh would definitly not be as warm as tight-knit
NATO gets their training in arctic warfare in northern norway, we issue netting to all soldiers.
Have personally used these for the past three years. It works. Get some.
Have not noticed any particular issue with the activity level you mention here.
@@ZukaraTheGameregardless you'd be layering. I think it's safe to say it'd keep you warm because your sweat would dry quicker in mesh. Keeping you warm under all those layers.
Seems an interesting alternative to thermic polyester layer, which has the drawback of smelling upon sweating. So my question is: does mesh layers also smell, or due to the large holes sweat is not trapped into the tissue?
Also available in Merino wool.
What about cotton/thermal? What's the latest on that? Works for me and is super comfy. Also, when all else fails I grab a thick beanie and sometimes a scarf around the neck.
Ha ha I've had so many jackets with *vents and I can't recall unzipping except maybe once while spring skiing. Never during winter
I did not know that
You mannequin desperately need googly eyes
lol! I’ll see what i can do
Fabulous content, glad to find ya! All the best for 2025
Does it make sense to put a thin wool base layer on top of the mesh weave, or does that completely eliminate the whole point? Just trying to think about how to deal with those extra cold days in the mountains
You'd be layering regardless so yes it makes sense. Literally nothing changes
For sure. If you see chilled in just the mesh and a shell…add a wool layer. If you get warm hiking and start to sweat the wool layer might be too much. Layering is all about managing sweat because that is what will make you cold once you stop moving
Well, now I've seen everything. Such mesh thermal underwear was used in the army 25 years ago.
Does an alpha 60 layer qualify as open weave? How would the fish net compare to an alpha 60 layer?
Brynje sales 📈🚀
Darn you! It was a SECRET!
I feel like you were the first person I heard talking about these shirts though.
This is far from a “new craze”. My father has been wearing “fishnet” long underwear since the mid-‘60’s, and he is the antithesis of a trendsetter (although he made his living outdoors). It has been a well-known style in Scandinavian countries for years. Despite my good-natured ribbing about his “holy underwear” he is steadfast in his loyalty to this style.
Nice video. My ugly mug even made it in your video. I’m big time now. 😂 Merry Christmas!
Who knew - 90s clubbing me had it all sussed out!
How does it compare to merino wool base layers?
They have a Merino wool version as well.
Used to slam-dance at punk shows in those back in the early 80s.
Yup, it doesn't makes sense but it really works
The old fashioned string vest.
What Fjalraven jacket is that? Thank you!
How long they last after repeated wash?
Well if it gets enough press and gains in popularity maybe competition will cause more makers to bring out products so I can try some without breaking the bank.
Maybe use zippers/ velcro to completey vent periodically(all clothes)
Ice Breaker Merino wool 175 Half -zip. Buy once, cry once
I would love to wear mesh, not just for outdoors, but also for activities where any clothing is useless/counter-productive, but mandatory for reasons of etiquette. Like at the tennis club in summer. Sadly, I haven't seen a mesh top yet that doesn't scream "gay night club".
Embrace the gay nightclub my guy
Took you a while to catch up. And by you I mean society. This tech has been around for decades. It’s great that it’s finally getting traction though, it’s gonna get cheaper with mass production
It's probably similar to sleeping in a sleeping bag with less clothes because it allows the body heat to be more easily reflected back onto you. But I'm not gonna act like I know much about it.
Mesh base layers is not new. We wore them decades ago before they disappeared from the market. They stunk more than the current iteration, but they worked. The new stuff is great.
What about Tencell with low anount of merino ? Does anybody know whether it works better than merino itselves ?
Not just the Norwegians but multiple militaries, including the UK, used this type of long underwear in WWII, and possibly before.
Military gets everything first. Doesn't mean it can't be an emerging tech for average consumers
That mesh top looks like something from Mad Max
The only purpose of the base layer is to pull moister away from the body. If the base layer does not have vent holes like what is found in pro clothing you will overheat. Cycling t-shirts that are pro have vent holes on them. The fabric NEEDS to be in full contact, mesh is an awful idea. The layers over the base NEED to be breathable and are often very thin to allow the moister to travel thought... HOWEVER, you still need air movement through what you are wearing. Active wear jacket not a shell is required. When you wear a shell you are not allowing the body to cool down enough but in cold weather -20c and colder you will need to add the outer shell.
From what I have tested even a base layer t-shirt (poly), light poly sweater, and a light merino wool sweater can keep you warm. BUT that is only if you have worked up a sweat. When the winds pick up, which it will on a cold day and you slow down even a little you will freeze you A** off. So instead of the outer shell an active wear solution would be better.
Loose the outer shell and wear an active wear jacket (very breathable) with your normal base layers. Maker sure you have a merino layer on. If you are out carry a light weight backpack and store another merino layer and your outer shell. Plus other light stuff.
The mesh stuff is solving a problem that does not need to be solved. The only purpose of the base layer is to pull moister, NOT keep you warm. Even without a base layer (would be weird) your body will still sweat. Air movement is good for mesh as a spacer but not next to skin... Same reason why heaver base layers don't work right as such needs to be fairly thin to allow the moister to pass through. All other layers need to be fairly light to allow moister to go through. If you are over heating look at your outer shell and consider active wear. If you get cold reach into your backpack and put on a layer or outer shell.
Also the temp range is NOT indicated... Wear mesh in -25c to -35c and you will freeze your A** off and you would need more control of keeping the heat in. It is like the difference in tucking in your t-shirt or sweater into your pants in respect to temp difference.
Later,
how is this a new thing? :D its been around for decades and used in the nordic countries, has its benifits (thats why cyclists and cross country skiies have used them for long) but also some drawbacks for 3 season backpacking - but for being active in winter time... great stuff :)
Wow. Who knew? (the Norwegians evidently🤣)
The only problem I have with these videos is I find a technology that's awesome, almost nobody is talking about it and then the UA-cam guys find out about it and now it seems like I'm copying them.
It's all good. We're all on this journey to find what works best for us.