I had it all... Alloy, Titanium and Carbon until I figured it out that the legs and lungs are the one that keep you moving. As long as I am in good shape, it doesn't make huge difference.
Sorry, back of the envelope here - but the energy needed to fully charge a di2 battery is the same amount of energy used by an average electric car over ~30 metres. Or ~10% of the energy needed to boil a kettle and make a cup of tea. Very happy you’re starting the conversation, just not sure that particular point sits right.
@@nipplegripple8581 Most EVs sold now have 50kWh+ sized battery packs. Di2 battery is 3.7 Wh. Efficient EV's tend to use ~15kWh per 100km. 3.7Wh/15000Wh*100km = 0.025km or around 25 meters. Numbers may differ a bit but the magnitude is similar.
You could do the calc based in the mWh rating of each battery and the range of a fully charged Tesla. I haven’t done the calc (because I can’t be arsed to go and look up the numbers) but that’s all you’d need to come up with a reasonable result. The 30m seems reasonable. Basic point is that the energy needed for Di2 is minuscule. The better argument is that we don’t need more batteries in the world due to the toxic materials and disposal, but again di2 batteries are so small compared to your phone or head unit, let alone a Tesla battery. And then later in the video they come out “We love e-bikes” (!). Is there a dynamo powered di2?
You must be kidding… calling out charging small axs battery while producing an HD high Bitrate video stream intended for being up on the internet. Guess how many batteries we could have charged just by all the views from one video. That was an L take. The battery itself is a whole other story but the charging… uff
Really don't think cyclists with di2 batteries are much of an enemy to the environment. As long as people are allowed private jets and gigantic cars with one person in , I have no time to hear about how di2 batteries are bad for the earth. Need to start at the top with these issues.
Well, the bike shifter batteries come in addition to cars and private jets, so whataboutism doesn work here. And no batteries (and plastic battery housing) at all are still better than any batteries.
It is a little silly to say that Di2 is bad due to the reliance on electricity, but then to end on "we love electric bikes over here", considering the discrepancy between the energy requirements for both.
What are you doing? I've ridden 37000 KM since 2019. I weigh 205, and it's all been on the same frame and wheels. Really bad roads? Oh wait, 130 kg? I'm 92 kg
A couple of very important corrections. 1. BMW electric cars have carbon fiber bodies. Other cars have fiberglass bodies. 2. Di2 batteries are charged once every few months. The power they draw to do that is minimal. 3. Regarding sustainability, what is the cost to the environment of mining aluminium? Titanium? What are the social costs? Bear in mind that the cost of extracting these metals in useable form from their oxides in ore is VERY high and generates massive amounts of chemical waste. For titanium, the process is incredibly energy intensive, and hence its very high cost.. Turning it into tubes also requires huge amounts of energy. Meanwhile, there are a number of companies who have developed industrial methods for recycling carbon composites. Expect this to become far more common as the use of these materials expands. I could go on, but you are making narrow and simplistic arguments without looking at the whole picture. It is almost as absurd as your "it's a myth that helmets make you safer" comment.
Everything begins with raw materials. There’s no abracadabra or hocus pocus finished product. All the bikes are made in Asia and shipped across the oceans. Tire material breaks down and is deposited where it rolls. Bikes are ridden in the woods creating hard pack trails where plants once grew. Let’s get beyond this aspect and appreciate a low impact, human powered means of travel.
@pauleye6852 We wouldn't be here if we didn't appreciate human powered biking. I just object to the claim that metal bikes are more sustainable than carbon without considering what goes into metal production and fabrication, or the ridiculous claim that electronic groupsets are a significant consumer of electricity.
AMEN !!! Thanks for sharing some proper knowledge for people who obviously dont care and just share what they've heard somewhere, sometime ago...and yeah, she ABSOLUTELY lost me when she said "and charging the battery every time"...like feck off and throw away your smartphone immediately for saying that!
Reliance on battery while riding. And it's a bit weird to charge your bike. Kinda wait when we are reach the point when we are gonna charge our shoes, skis and snowboards.
A SRAM battery is 300mAH, it's a completely inconsequential amount of energy to charge that even compared to a mobile phone. Anyone trying to "gotcha" you about environmental concerns by bringing that up is being extremely disingenuous to say the least.
What do you mean by alloy, aluminum alloy? Every metal bike out there is made from some sort of alloy, so to differentiate between an alloy bike, a steel bike, and a titanium bike is nonsensical.
I just watched a video where these guys bashed GCN for promoting expensive bikes, and here they are talking about wanting to kill off the big brands who make affordable bikes, and referring to high end ridiculously priced brands as if they were their own children. Not only hipster snobs, but hypocrites too. I’m done watching Cade Media videos.
summed it up perfectly. The energy use of bike batteries is laughably small compared to the cost of mining, processing and shipping of cables. Cringe virtue signalling
Wait… you bring up environmental concerns when discussing electronic shifting, then finish with “we love e-bikes” and no qualifications about the environmental issues 🤦♂️
Wait, you bring up a rather paternalist comment regarding environmental issues… and yet here you are, using the internet which is very environmentally unfriendly. 😊
Back in the day, there was a headlight that you could mount on your bike for visibility/night riding. It was charged by a unit that clamped on the fork blade and swiveled so you could flip it and it would run against the sidewall of the tire and charge the light. This worked much like the Prius’s regenerative braking. I’m sure that something like this could be used to recharge electronic groupsets.
Arguing the environmental merits of alloy vs. carbon, or mechanical groupsets vs. electronic ones, is kind of silly. Bikes are part of the same industrial infrastructure as pretty much everything else we use, and manufacturing them, transporting them across the ocean, repairing them, and ultimately disposing of them is going to cause a certain amount of environmental damage no matter what. The difference between bicycles and cars is a quantitative one, not qualitative: they just cause a little less damage because they use fewer resources.
You can also make a lot of bikes from the resources needed for one car, especially the monster trucks the americans like. On the whole literally any bicycle will be better than any car for both society and the environment by a long shot.
-It seems the CADE Media stance is “WE should get to have expensive carbon bikes, our VIEWERS should put up with lesser metal ones that are ‘low impact’. OUR channel’s shop uses wireless groupsets but YOU should buy a mechanical one for the environment”. -I’m not a fan of TREK or Canyon either, but I’m not going to hate on them for providing relatively accessible and affordable options to people. -The energy required to process aluminum or titanium as a raw material into a usable alloy to then make a bicycle frame would give you three fits, evidently. -Cars, like bikes, use a variety of materials including plastic and (gasp) carbon fiber. -It’s been stated many times in this section, but the energy to charge a SRAM shifter battery is so minuscule it’s not even worth discussing. You use more making a cup of tea. -E Bikes are a great form of transport. They will not replace cars but can substitute in some areas. If you are worried about the energy of a Di2 battery you should not be pro-e bike, but the reason most cyclists hate on E bikes is because no one riding one that could ride a manual bike is getting the same health benefits.
Lots of misinformation-“Cars use metal but bikes use carbon for weight”. Cars also use a lot of plastic/composites coincidentally also for weight savings. TIME uses resin transfer molding but they are not alone, 3T does the same for their frames made in Italy.
In many cases it´s easier to repair a carbon frame than a titanium frame. You weld the cracked titanium frame and have a stress riser, it will crack again just by the weld. Have you really never seen a repaired carbon frame? Never heard of Raoul Luescher?? Stunning. Rgr
68 years old My USA Black Friday TIME ADHX makes me smile everyday like no other bike in my lifetime AND the new GRX brakes our so comfortable and well designed with so much power while upright
1:19 what? It's misleading to suggest alloy becomes softer with time, especially as Carbon fibre are more prone to strain-weakening behaviour. Additionally fatigue failures in alloy should result in visible cracking (a warning sign if inspected regularly). Delamination of a carbon frame can be incredibly difficult to detect without specialist equipment (or sawing it in half)
I have had two aluminum bikes that have had fatigue failures. My carbon bike has had more time on it and still fine. Never any problems with my steel frames.
@@ShadowzKiller the one aluminum was a mtn bike with about 5 years of very heavy use. the other was a road bike with about 20 years of light use. The carbon bike is a giant trance with 1,285 hours of saddle time currently
I love the seat post nonsense on my Madone; don't knock it until you try it. Forget the aero and lightness advantage, the ride is much more comfortable than my BMC.
I appreciate everyone here in the comments calling out their ignorance regarding environmental impact of battery charging and lack of understanding of how renewable energy works
Carbon just transmits your power so much smoother. I'm borrowing my dad's alloy bike since my carbon bike is in repair, and it just feels harder to transmit power through and it feels wobbly
I want to love alloy, but my firsthand experience is that it’s a savage ride compared to the other two. I’d love to try a steel bike with a lightweight build. Other than that, my next bike will be titanium providing I can find one that doesn’t flex.
Which aluminum frames did you ride? I've had good and comfortable aluminum frames: an old cannondale CAAD (maybe a 3?) that was good. A cheap BMC aluminum frame (Streetfire. Like $500 in 2008). And a Felt cyclocross bike that was probably good but I was using wide tires so it didn't matter much and I'm not entirely sure. I did have one aluminum frame that was so incredibly stiff I'd only use it for certain purposes - a cheap Cinelli frame. Damn that thing was so stiff. if I rode on a smooth road I felt it was noticeable faster! But I never wanted to ride it over 2hours
If brands could find a way of making an absolute minimalistic dynamo for eletronic shifting (I mean real small, not those humongous found on commuter bikes) then I would definitely switch to Di2, it would solve all the talk about batteries and stuff. Brands should focus on that instead of propietary componets and similar bs
@@gourami7 solar panels would complicate things I guess, they are more expensive than dynamos, you wouldn't be able to power your stuff all the time, and wear out faster than daynmos
@@samteenoise Solar panels degrade about 20% over 25 years, I dont think you should worry about that part. The bigger issue is the lack of power if you are in the shade at all or the fact that you would need a massive area to earn any amount worth the effort.
As a general bike riding person I don’t distinguish between tarmac and gravel. Some local roads are sealed, some aren’t. I don’t need a special bike to ride on unsealed roads just like I don’t need a special car to drive on unsealed roads. But mud is not something you’re likely to find on a gravel road.
As a long time roadie I can tell you the appeal of gravel is zero traffic. I rode on the gravel yesterday for two hours and didn't see a single car. It's not for everybody because not everybody has access to these roads. It has rekindled my love for the bike. And yeah after a lot of rain Im back on the road bike.
Sometimes my routes take me through beautiful forests or on roads I cant ride on my road bike, a gravel bike would allow me to go more places and see more things while sacrificing not that much on the road.
The girl doesn't like electronic shifting because you have to charge the shifter. She loves E-Bikes... because you have to charge them before you use them? WTF???
Imagine if you sweat a lot without ever washing it, all that sweat will corrode the aluminum. I've seen this on a handful of aluminium handlebars, one of which is already porous (not to the point I can break it with my hands off the bike yet).
In terms of environmental impact carbon fibre is not as bad. If a carbon fibre frame suffers a small hole in a crash, it can be repared. If that happens to an aluminium frame, you need to throw it away, because welding the hole shut will weaken the frame even further. And btw. Tommasini works with all mentioned materials - aluminium, carbon fibre and steel.
Alloy (Steel or Aluminium) bikes don’t become softer, more so aluminium … if you knew anything about Metallurgy, alloy becomes work hardened and stiffer with time & use, hence the reason aluminium frame are prone to cracking with age
You guys have some good content that interests me but the videos are really long and I end up giving up before getting to the next thing I'm interested in. Having chapters / time markers / whatever they're called in the videos would be amazing!
Sorry Jimmy, there are plenty of Carbon fiber parts in everyday hybrid cars from Toyota. My dad has Rav4 Prime, got a small accident, needed to replace uber expensive carbon parts, same thing happened with his Prius Prime !
Many things are unnecessary and cost energy to produce. The graphics on your shirt, the color of your shirt -- why not just plain white with no color? The orange paint on the wall -- why paint it and suffer the energy cost of making it, of having a painter drive over and paint it on? Wearing kit is not necessary. Many argue flats are as good as shoes with clipless pedals. Why not make everything the bare minimum and all alike, say like in the former USSR? Give me a break. Cannot people have something because they work hard as hell to earn the money and would like to have shifting that did not need adjustment? The entire notion that miniscule amounts of power needed to charge rechargeable batteries (aren't those the favored type after all?) should potentially disqualify a purchase is asinine
that lady obviously had nothing to say, and then made a big mistake by opening her trap and saying Di2 battery are an environmental issue due to charging each time. Wow...just wow...
Ha! Trek makes a wide variety of bikes, all different types of riding and a wide range of quality. Some of them are high end, some are quite pedestrian.
It's not. It's the dodgy 2nd hand BMW 3 series with a badly applied M sticker because the owner can't afford a proper car. Same with Trek, you get one because you'll never be able to afford a Pinarello or a Colnago & you'll never have the legs or fitness to do them any justice either. Meh. X
@@chokehanson1830 top of the range Madones are the same price as The pinnerello , they are all made in the far east anyway . As for my legs , ask your wife , she was between them last weekend x
Cade Media slowly morphed into a reel of clickbait, contradictory, hipster contrarianism. Time to unsubscribe. Bike Fit James is the only reason to stick around.
Wow a man who absolutely I agree with! Owned many Tommasin’s, still have a 1990s TecnoTig and a Carbon VLC2. Superb to ride, very high quality, super reliable with the perfect level of Italian bling. eBike looks horrible. I hope the new owners don’t steer the company too far in the wrong direction.
My last two Tomassinis broke. I got them about the time the demand for alloy frames was taking over the steel market. The steel tube manufacturers were trying to keep up weight wise with aluminum alloy. Either the tubing wasn't good enough or Tomassini and his boys were getting the tubing too hot. Unfortunately I had to move on from those bikes. They were beautiful but had no warranty and they kept breaking, They still hang on my wall.
@@jbrattwow first time I have heard this. Never had an alloy Tommasini. My steel tecno is 25 years old and still going strong. My carbon VLC2 is 6 years old and no issues at all
Enjoy Cade's opinions and viewpoints as a refreshing juxtapoisiton to the hyper positive to the point of irritating vibes from GCN sometimes, but this just came off as classic hipster bike snobs who nobody likes other than other hipster bike snobs. I mean at some point I was expecting them to say kill off all drivetrains and only use single speeds because its better for the environment and only ride frames made out of wood because you can burn them for a heat source when you're done riding them. But it can't be a wooden frame from Spesh or Giant, it has to be from a brand only 11 people of heard of.
They are as much French as Cannondale, Specialized and Trek are American. Time has frames made in Slovakia and Tunisia, which are both closer to France than Taiwan and China are to the USA.
I love the fact that road biking flows. I love the speed I love how it feels yet I still mountain bike keep up the skills, a different type of fitness and of course I have a park by my house that I can ride to also to the commentary about steel titanium aluminum all that stuff I have aluminum Canondale fixed gear that you can see in my profile picture and yet I ride a carbon Trek Madone 2011 , 11 sp rim brake with Zipp wheels . I don’t own a titanium framed bike. I would like in the future. I also have a gravel bike and that’s a specialized diverge, which gets not as much use as the other bikes so the thing about the carbon bikes is they can be shaped into aerodynamic designs however, they’re only experimenting now with titanium and of course aluminum. I’ve seen some designs and frames, but you can’t shape them like you can with the carbon. Also, the carbon frames are very snappy, they’re very racy like the accelerate very quickly when you get on the pedals . There’s something to carbon frames that are good for racing and things like that that racers prefer. Maybe if the racers or the pros are not racing anymore maybe they’d like to have a titanium frame so you gotta check out the butterfly effect UA-cam channel Chris Horner. He talks about what he rides he used to be a pro .
NOT CORRECT you can repair ANY alloy frame think small racing engines the alloy blocks are repaired all the time here i have seen alloy fork tubes repaired numerous times not a problem .Gravel Sucks.
i dont get the love for Ti. Ti bikes ride like delivery trucks. carbon bikes are COMFY. alloy is the same as Ti for me... why ride a frame that makes it harsher on an already harsh platform .
About frame material, in my opinion: Love Alloy, tolerate carbon and hate titanium. Alloy is the only framematerial any entrylevel/casual cyclist need to care about. Carbon make sense on a professional/high-end level. Titaniums only point is for people that want to demonstrate their wallets for the hole world. No thanks!
@@87togabito no it is really not, I hope you are sarcastic. Cycling is the cheapest and most afficient way of transportion on shorter distances, for example urban enviroments. That is why cycling is so popular along youths, students and people in for example Amsterdam. Road cycling is the fastest you can go without an engine and it is the cheapest way came close to motorbiking. At least for us casual riders.
Nonsense. Titanium bikes are beautiful. They don’t need to be painted and they glow in the sunlight. I’ve had bikes made of aluminum, steel, carbon and titanium. They all ride differently but my favourite bike of all time is my titanium hardtail. If a bike made of dirt clods rode like that bike, I would probably have one.
@@nateisright but they are more expensive than alloy and heavier than carbon. I don't care how the bike glow in sunlight. If I want good ride quality I will put my money in good bartape, good wheelsets and tiers and a good saddle and I will still spend half as much money as you which will make the ride even more enjoyable for me. You don't need to agree, but that is my opinion.
Nonsense. I ride a carbon bike and I am far, far from riding on a professional level! I'm 72 years old and ride about 5000 miles a year. I ride carbon because of the ride quality. Carbon fiber absorbs road vibrations and that makes a difference when you are on the bike all day. My next bike will be titanium because it is basically indestructible. I do NOT ride quality bikes to show the whole world my wallet. I ride because I like quality and have the means to pay for it. Sounds like you got a bad case of wallet envy!
I think she read the room wrong there… The comments will be how stupid it is to bring the environment into the conversation talking about incredibly low impact electronic shifting. Crunching my tongue for what I want to say!!! 😁😁
Oh kmon, this microscopic amounts of cycle gear wasted in comparison to all the pladtic packaging and all the fast food clothing and stuuf, thats just ridiculous
Your podcast took more energy than jut about all the watchers Di2 combined, your eco argument is just stupid. You can recycle carbon and lasts longer these days and alloy production is hidiously energy intensive.....
These two are so full of inaccuracies and contradictions. They can’t hate on brands and price then espouse even more expensive alternatives. Come on Cade Media, I had better hopes for you.
You lost me when you said electric shifting was “unenvironmentally friendly” cause it causes us to have a reliance on energy. Your phone? Your computer? Producing less waste cause you don’t have to change your cables and plastic housing every year which uses energy to make these materials. Unsubscribed
Your environmental worries are commendable, but really all over the place. "Carbon is not recyclable" - sure, but aluminum is FAR more energy consuming to remove it from the ground in the first place (and damaging to env) and than again to mold it into shape - did you check on that? di2 charging is an issue? c'mon! to make an impact we need to focus on things that matter significantly, not to get distracted with every other thing!
This is such a useless chit chat that it hurts. Why this stuff is even recommended to my in my homepage? You would save planet more by not flooding internet by garbage
Alloy is the most logical, cost effective choice for a bike frame, that's why I have a steel and a carbon bike.
My road bike, the carbon one. Steel for gravel.@jooohan
😂 👌
love alloy and titanium, that's why I sold them and bought carbon
Why not do like me: twoo alloy bikes!
I had it all... Alloy, Titanium and Carbon until I figured it out that the legs and lungs are the one that keep you moving. As long as I am in good shape, it doesn't make huge difference.
Sorry, back of the envelope here - but the energy needed to fully charge a di2 battery is the same amount of energy used by an average electric car over ~30 metres. Or ~10% of the energy needed to boil a kettle and make a cup of tea. Very happy you’re starting the conversation, just not sure that particular point sits right.
Where did you get this from?? Reddit??
@@nipplegripple8581 from a Casio FX-350ES
@@nipplegripple8581 Most EVs sold now have 50kWh+ sized battery packs. Di2 battery is 3.7 Wh. Efficient EV's tend to use ~15kWh per 100km.
3.7Wh/15000Wh*100km = 0.025km or around 25 meters. Numbers may differ a bit but the magnitude is similar.
Its easy maths.
You could do the calc based in the mWh rating of each battery and the range of a fully charged Tesla. I haven’t done the calc (because I can’t be arsed to go and look up the numbers) but that’s all you’d need to come up with a reasonable result. The 30m seems reasonable. Basic point is that the energy needed for Di2 is minuscule. The better argument is that we don’t need more batteries in the world due to the toxic materials and disposal, but again di2 batteries are so small compared to your phone or head unit, let alone a Tesla battery. And then later in the video they come out “We love e-bikes” (!). Is there a dynamo powered di2?
You must be kidding… calling out charging small axs battery while producing an HD high Bitrate video stream intended for being up on the internet. Guess how many batteries we could have charged just by all the views from one video. That was an L take. The battery itself is a whole other story but the charging… uff
The level of BS in the first minutes is almost DurianRider level.
hahahah epic comment
Really don't think cyclists with di2 batteries are much of an enemy to the environment.
As long as people are allowed private jets and gigantic cars with one person in , I have no time to hear about how di2 batteries are bad for the earth.
Need to start at the top with these issues.
Please no whataboutism. No batteries (and plastic battery housing) at all are better than batteries.
Well, the bike shifter batteries come in addition to cars and private jets, so whataboutism doesn work here. And no batteries (and plastic battery housing) at all are still better than any batteries.
It is a little silly to say that Di2 is bad due to the reliance on electricity, but then to end on "we love electric bikes over here", considering the discrepancy between the energy requirements for both.
I'm a 130 kg rider on an alloy frame Triban, riding it 3-5000 km/year since 2019. I've been through three wheelsets but the frame is running strong.
Let me guess, alloy frame?
@@MarkusFolkesson of course
What are you doing? I've ridden 37000 KM since 2019. I weigh 205, and it's all been on the same frame and wheels. Really bad roads? Oh wait, 130 kg? I'm 92 kg
Wait, were you ripping on Di2 but like e-bikes for the environment?
A couple of very important corrections. 1. BMW electric cars have carbon fiber bodies. Other cars have fiberglass bodies. 2. Di2 batteries are charged once every few months. The power they draw to do that is minimal. 3. Regarding sustainability, what is the cost to the environment of mining aluminium? Titanium? What are the social costs? Bear in mind that the cost of extracting these metals in useable form from their oxides in ore is VERY high and generates massive amounts of chemical waste. For titanium, the process is incredibly energy intensive, and hence its very high cost.. Turning it into tubes also requires huge amounts of energy. Meanwhile, there are a number of companies who have developed industrial methods for recycling carbon composites. Expect this to become far more common as the use of these materials expands. I could go on, but you are making narrow and simplistic arguments without looking at the whole picture. It is almost as absurd as your "it's a myth that helmets make you safer" comment.
Everything begins with raw materials. There’s no abracadabra or hocus pocus finished product. All the bikes are made in Asia and shipped across the oceans. Tire material breaks down and is deposited where it rolls. Bikes are ridden in the woods creating hard pack trails where plants once grew. Let’s get beyond this aspect and appreciate a low impact, human powered means of travel.
@pauleye6852 We wouldn't be here if we didn't appreciate human powered biking. I just object to the claim that metal bikes are more sustainable than carbon without considering what goes into metal production and fabrication, or the ridiculous claim that electronic groupsets are a significant consumer of electricity.
@@stuartdryer1352 you are 100% correct, indeed.
Well said, but carbon snaps are so catastrophic that sonar stations around the globe can pick it up
AMEN !!! Thanks for sharing some proper knowledge for people who obviously dont care and just share what they've heard somewhere, sometime ago...and yeah, she ABSOLUTELY lost me when she said "and charging the battery every time"...like feck off and throw away your smartphone immediately for saying that!
Reliance on energy is bad? You do realise your entire business is reliant on energy? What a ridiculous statement to make.
Reliance on battery while riding.
And it's a bit weird to charge your bike. Kinda wait when we are reach the point when we are gonna charge our shoes, skis and snowboards.
@@tonyka3545 I charge my phone every day and my shifting once every two months, comparing them is not even worth it.
A SRAM battery is 300mAH, it's a completely inconsequential amount of energy to charge that even compared to a mobile phone. Anyone trying to "gotcha" you about environmental concerns by bringing that up is being extremely disingenuous to say the least.
Her comment was embarassing.
I hate any brand that uses proprietary sizes. Seat posts, stems, headsets, BB. I want a bike that I can find spare parts any where
What do you mean by alloy, aluminum alloy? Every metal bike out there is made from some sort of alloy, so to differentiate between an alloy bike, a steel bike, and a titanium bike is nonsensical.
The whole bike industry seems to do this. As an engineer, I also find it really annoying
I came here to listen to hipster-snob opinions ))
I just watched a video where these guys bashed GCN for promoting expensive bikes, and here they are talking about wanting to kill off the big brands who make affordable bikes, and referring to high end ridiculously priced brands as if they were their own children. Not only hipster snobs, but hypocrites too. I’m done watching Cade Media videos.
summed it up perfectly. The energy use of bike batteries is laughably small compared to the cost of mining, processing and shipping of cables. Cringe virtue signalling
😂
They delivered
such elitists pricks really this bald guy is vomit inducing
Wait… you bring up environmental concerns when discussing electronic shifting, then finish with “we love e-bikes” and no qualifications about the environmental issues 🤦♂️
Nailed it!
Wait, you bring up a rather paternalist comment regarding environmental issues… and yet here you are, using the internet which is very environmentally unfriendly. 😊
Back in the day, there was a headlight that you could mount on your bike for visibility/night riding. It was charged by a unit that clamped on the fork blade and swiveled so you could flip it and it would run against the sidewall of the tire and charge the light. This worked much like the Prius’s regenerative braking. I’m sure that something like this could be used to recharge electronic groupsets.
Arguing the environmental merits of alloy vs. carbon, or mechanical groupsets vs. electronic ones, is kind of silly. Bikes are part of the same industrial infrastructure as pretty much everything else we use, and manufacturing them, transporting them across the ocean, repairing them, and ultimately disposing of them is going to cause a certain amount of environmental damage no matter what. The difference between bicycles and cars is a quantitative one, not qualitative: they just cause a little less damage because they use fewer resources.
You can also make a lot of bikes from the resources needed for one car, especially the monster trucks the americans like. On the whole literally any bicycle will be better than any car for both society and the environment by a long shot.
I love these discussions and that the videos are under 10 minutes. Keep it up!
In Ukraine everyone knows that any crack on alloy frame can be fixed by some guy at garage 😂
And it works for years, magic 😁
-It seems the CADE Media stance is “WE should get to have expensive carbon bikes, our VIEWERS should put up with lesser metal ones that are ‘low impact’. OUR channel’s shop uses wireless groupsets but YOU should buy a mechanical one for the environment”.
-I’m not a fan of TREK or Canyon either, but I’m not going to hate on them for providing relatively accessible and affordable options to people.
-The energy required to process aluminum or titanium as a raw material into a usable alloy to then make a bicycle frame would give you three fits, evidently.
-Cars, like bikes, use a variety of materials including plastic and (gasp) carbon fiber.
-It’s been stated many times in this section, but the energy to charge a SRAM shifter battery is so minuscule it’s not even worth discussing. You use more making a cup of tea.
-E Bikes are a great form of transport. They will not replace cars but can substitute in some areas. If you are worried about the energy of a Di2 battery you should not be pro-e bike, but the reason most cyclists hate on E bikes is because no one riding one that could ride a manual bike is getting the same health benefits.
Lots of misinformation-“Cars use metal but bikes use carbon for weight”. Cars also use a lot of plastic/composites coincidentally also for weight savings. TIME uses resin transfer molding but they are not alone, 3T does the same for their frames made in Italy.
... a* lot* ...
Ok, thats when lack of engineering background starts to become a problem.
You are confusing aluminum with "alloy." An alloy is defined as "a substance composed of two or more metals..."
And... I'm out at 2:34.
"Electronic shifting creates a reliance on energy."
You just can't make this stuff up.
In many cases it´s easier to repair a carbon frame than a titanium frame. You weld the cracked titanium frame and have a stress riser, it will crack again just by the weld. Have you really never seen a repaired carbon frame? Never heard of Raoul Luescher?? Stunning. Rgr
68 years old My USA Black Friday TIME ADHX makes me smile everyday like no other bike in my lifetime AND the new GRX brakes our so comfortable and well designed with so much power while upright
Totally agree with the Cannondale sentiment. I had a Saeco Team replica and it was the love of my life. It was stolen and I miss it every day.
1:19 what? It's misleading to suggest alloy becomes softer with time, especially as Carbon fibre are more prone to strain-weakening behaviour. Additionally fatigue failures in alloy should result in visible cracking (a warning sign if inspected regularly). Delamination of a carbon frame can be incredibly difficult to detect without specialist equipment (or sawing it in half)
Can you elaborate about how long we can expect an alloy frame to last? Mine is 10 years old, used a lot, but I take good care of it.
I have had two aluminum bikes that have had fatigue failures. My carbon bike has had more time on it and still fine. Never any problems with my steel frames.
@@bigb7422 After roughly how many kms or years of use?
@@ShadowzKiller the one aluminum was a mtn bike with about 5 years of very heavy use. the other was a road bike with about 20 years of light use. The carbon bike is a giant trance with 1,285 hours of saddle time currently
@@bigb7422 Thanks.
You’ve about 2 weeks, sorry mate
I love the seat post nonsense on my Madone; don't knock it until you try it. Forget the aero and lightness advantage, the ride is much more comfortable than my BMC.
I appreciate everyone here in the comments calling out their ignorance regarding environmental impact of battery charging and lack of understanding of how renewable energy works
Wow, I charge my Di2 6 times a year, less that 2kWh per year in total. Most people use more than that a day for a kettle.
Carbon just transmits your power so much smoother. I'm borrowing my dad's alloy bike since my carbon bike is in repair, and it just feels harder to transmit power through and it feels wobbly
I want to love alloy, but my firsthand experience is that it’s a savage ride compared to the other two. I’d love to try a steel bike with a lightweight build. Other than that, my next bike will be titanium providing I can find one that doesn’t flex.
Which aluminum frames did you ride? I've had good and comfortable aluminum frames: an old cannondale CAAD (maybe a 3?) that was good. A cheap BMC aluminum frame (Streetfire. Like $500 in 2008). And a Felt cyclocross bike that was probably good but I was using wide tires so it didn't matter much and I'm not entirely sure.
I did have one aluminum frame that was so incredibly stiff I'd only use it for certain purposes - a cheap Cinelli frame. Damn that thing was so stiff. if I rode on a smooth road I felt it was noticeable faster! But I never wanted to ride it over 2hours
Are you driving a car from the 1950s? Todays cars are all covered in plastics, whether cheap or expensive.
If brands could find a way of making an absolute minimalistic dynamo for eletronic shifting (I mean real small, not those humongous found on commuter bikes) then I would definitely switch to Di2, it would solve all the talk about batteries and stuff. Brands should focus on that instead of propietary componets and similar bs
It would seem a fairly obvious development and maybe a small solar panel somewhere to charge devices
@@gourami7 solar panels would complicate things I guess, they are more expensive than dynamos, you wouldn't be able to power your stuff all the time, and wear out faster than daynmos
@@samteenoise Solar panels degrade about 20% over 25 years, I dont think you should worry about that part. The bigger issue is the lack of power if you are in the shade at all or the fact that you would need a massive area to earn any amount worth the effort.
I only get about 4 years out of an alloy bike frame, but have never broken a Ti frame.
Hearing which bikes you sell in your bike shop makes me think that you is the Man.
Really don't understand the appeal in Gravel. We're roadie's because we don't want to get covered in mud or get dirt on our bikes.
As a general bike riding person I don’t distinguish between tarmac and gravel. Some local roads are sealed, some aren’t. I don’t need a special bike to ride on unsealed roads just like I don’t need a special car to drive on unsealed roads.
But mud is not something you’re likely to find on a gravel road.
As a long time roadie I can tell you the appeal of gravel is zero traffic. I rode on the gravel yesterday for two hours and didn't see a single car. It's not for everybody because not everybody has access to these roads. It has rekindled my love for the bike. And yeah after a lot of rain Im back on the road bike.
Life is more enjoyable when you include a bit of variety. Or don’t, it’s all good.
Sometimes my routes take me through beautiful forests or on roads I cant ride on my road bike, a gravel bike would allow me to go more places and see more things while sacrificing not that much on the road.
You should give it a try. It is a lot of fun and changes things up.
The girl doesn't like electronic shifting because you have to charge the shifter.
She loves E-Bikes... because you have to charge them before you use them?
WTF???
Never road a carbon bike before. Saving up for one. Just scared of it breaking
Mine is fantastic. I have ridden steel and aluminum as well, and i will always choose carbon.
Did beard almost say that a plastic outer is more environmentally unfriendly than a making a land charging a battery 😅
How will an Alloy bike deteriorate?
Imagine if you sweat a lot without ever washing it, all that sweat will corrode the aluminum. I've seen this on a handful of aluminium handlebars, one of which is already porous (not to the point I can break it with my hands off the bike yet).
Carbon Road with electronic shifting. LOVE
carbon for the fancy beautiful road bike... alloy for all the other 15 bikes that we want to have 😅
Love this channel and HMU when you come to Taipei next year.
In terms of environmental impact carbon fibre is not as bad. If a carbon fibre frame suffers a small hole in a crash, it can be repared. If that happens to an aluminium frame, you need to throw it away, because welding the hole shut will weaken the frame even further. And btw. Tommasini works with all mentioned materials - aluminium, carbon fibre and steel.
Alloy (Steel or Aluminium) bikes don’t become softer, more so aluminium … if you knew anything about Metallurgy, alloy becomes work hardened and stiffer with time & use, hence the reason aluminium frame are prone to cracking with age
Love these. Curious why not Gravel/Road/Mountain?
You guys have some good content that interests me but the videos are really long and I end up giving up before getting to the next thing I'm interested in. Having chapters / time markers / whatever they're called in the videos would be amazing!
these guys are clueless...
Sorry Jimmy, there are plenty of Carbon fiber parts in everyday hybrid cars from Toyota. My dad has Rav4 Prime, got a small accident, needed to replace uber expensive carbon parts, same thing happened with his Prius Prime !
Aren't titanium and alloy products of the mining industry?
It is. What's your point?
So is steel. Do you use a car? The mining industry is not evil.
Many things are unnecessary and cost energy to produce. The graphics on your shirt, the color of your shirt -- why not just plain white with no color? The orange paint on the wall -- why paint it and suffer the energy cost of making it, of having a painter drive over and paint it on? Wearing kit is not necessary. Many argue flats are as good as shoes with clipless pedals. Why not make everything the bare minimum and all alike, say like in the former USSR? Give me a break. Cannot people have something because they work hard as hell to earn the money and would like to have shifting that did not need adjustment? The entire notion that miniscule amounts of power needed to charge rechargeable batteries (aren't those the favored type after all?) should potentially disqualify a purchase is asinine
It's all tokenism greenwash. Meanwhile in China and Asia they are doubling their resource use all the time.
that lady obviously had nothing to say, and then made a big mistake by opening her trap and saying Di2 battery are an environmental issue due to charging each time. Wow...just wow...
ride in the Netherlands, safe on the road ;)! still have to look out yourself off course :D!
Smart guy! Love/tolerate his choices...😉
Trek is the Lamborghini of the cycling world
Ha! Trek makes a wide variety of bikes, all different types of riding and a wide range of quality. Some of them are high end, some are quite pedestrian.
@@sfdint I just meant , like Lamborghini, they do things slightly different and quirky .
It's not. It's the dodgy 2nd hand BMW 3 series with a badly applied M sticker because the owner can't afford a proper car. Same with Trek, you get one because you'll never be able to afford a Pinarello or a Colnago & you'll never have the legs or fitness to do them any justice either.
Meh.
X
@@chokehanson1830 top of the range Madones are the same price as The pinnerello , they are all made in the far east anyway . As for my legs , ask your wife , she was between them last weekend x
I wanna know what you guys think of ‘smaller’ brands like Planet X. They’re local to me and to my knowledge you’ve never spoken about them.
Cade Media slowly morphed into a reel of clickbait, contradictory, hipster contrarianism. Time to unsubscribe. Bike Fit James is the only reason to stick around.
Wow a man who absolutely I agree with! Owned many Tommasin’s, still have a 1990s TecnoTig and a Carbon VLC2. Superb to ride, very high quality, super reliable with the perfect level of Italian bling. eBike looks horrible. I hope the new owners don’t steer the company too far in the wrong direction.
My last two Tomassinis broke. I got them about the time the demand for alloy frames was taking over the steel market. The steel tube manufacturers were trying to keep up weight wise with aluminum alloy. Either the tubing wasn't good enough or Tomassini and his boys were getting the tubing too hot. Unfortunately I had to move on from those bikes. They were beautiful but had no warranty and they kept breaking, They still hang on my wall.
@@jbrattwow first time I have heard this. Never had an alloy Tommasini. My steel tecno is 25 years old and still going strong. My carbon VLC2 is 6 years old and no issues at all
Critical of the energy to recharge batteries, but everything on a bike comes in single use plastics...
Enjoy Cade's opinions and viewpoints as a refreshing juxtapoisiton to the hyper positive to the point of irritating vibes from GCN sometimes, but this just came off as classic hipster bike snobs who nobody likes other than other hipster bike snobs. I mean at some point I was expecting them to say kill off all drivetrains and only use single speeds because its better for the environment and only ride frames made out of wood because you can burn them for a heat source when you're done riding them. But it can't be a wooden frame from Spesh or Giant, it has to be from a brand only 11 people of heard of.
TIME being a French manufacturer is quite debatable since they make frames in Slovakia.
They are as much French as Cannondale, Specialized and Trek are American. Time has frames made in Slovakia and Tunisia, which are both closer to France than Taiwan and China are to the USA.
Alloy is cheaper to the point you can buy 10 of it in a price of a good carbon frame.
Should be called Embodied energy rather than just environmental impact. Also Cradle to Grave.
Alot of tree huggers in cycling I've noticed, ive only been cycling a couple of years.i know its not going to save the planet though.
I love the fact that road biking flows. I love the speed I love how it feels yet I still mountain bike keep up the skills, a different type of fitness and of course I have a park by my house that I can ride to also to the commentary about steel titanium aluminum all that stuff I have aluminum Canondale fixed gear that you can see in my profile picture and yet I ride a carbon Trek Madone 2011 , 11 sp rim brake with Zipp wheels . I don’t own a titanium framed bike. I would like in the future. I also have a gravel bike and that’s a specialized diverge, which gets not as much use as the other bikes so the thing about the carbon bikes is they can be shaped into aerodynamic designs however, they’re only experimenting now with titanium and of course aluminum. I’ve seen some designs and frames, but you can’t shape them like you can with the carbon. Also, the carbon frames are very snappy, they’re very racy like the accelerate very quickly when you get on the pedals . There’s something to carbon frames that are good for racing and things like that that racers prefer. Maybe if the racers or the pros are not racing anymore maybe they’d like to have a titanium frame so you gotta check out the butterfly effect UA-cam channel Chris Horner. He talks about what he rides he used to be a pro .
Carbon breaks easy … and deteriorates faster
NOT CORRECT you can repair ANY alloy frame think small racing engines the alloy blocks are repaired all the time here i have seen alloy fork tubes repaired numerous times not a problem .Gravel Sucks.
How did these people finish elementary school?
Let's face it. Alloy is for losers.
Good to see all bike riders are not the same!
i dont get the love for Ti. Ti bikes ride like delivery trucks. carbon bikes are COMFY. alloy is the same as Ti for me... why ride a frame that makes it harsher on an already harsh platform .
talking environment, gravel, 99% of riders need to drive to get to a ride.
Trek is overrated, heavy and expensive AF 😂😂😂
About frame material, in my opinion: Love Alloy, tolerate carbon and hate titanium.
Alloy is the only framematerial any entrylevel/casual cyclist need to care about. Carbon make sense on a professional/high-end level.
Titaniums only point is for people that want to demonstrate their wallets for the hole world. No thanks!
Isn’t that the main point of cycling, when the whole purpose of a luxury sport is to flaunt your wallet?
@@87togabito no it is really not, I hope you are sarcastic.
Cycling is the cheapest and most afficient way of transportion on shorter distances, for example urban enviroments. That is why cycling is so popular along youths, students and people in for example Amsterdam.
Road cycling is the fastest you can go without an engine and it is the cheapest way came close to motorbiking.
At least for us casual riders.
Nonsense. Titanium bikes are beautiful. They don’t need to be painted and they glow in the sunlight. I’ve had bikes made of aluminum, steel, carbon and titanium. They all ride differently but my favourite bike of all time is my titanium hardtail. If a bike made of dirt clods rode like that bike, I would probably have one.
@@nateisright but they are more expensive than alloy and heavier than carbon. I don't care how the bike glow in sunlight. If I want good ride quality I will put my money in good bartape, good wheelsets and tiers and a good saddle and I will still spend half as much money as you which will make the ride even more enjoyable for me.
You don't need to agree, but that is my opinion.
Nonsense. I ride a carbon bike and I am far, far from riding on a professional level! I'm 72 years old and ride about 5000 miles a year. I ride carbon because of the ride quality. Carbon fiber absorbs road vibrations and that makes a difference when you are on the bike all day. My next bike will be titanium because it is basically indestructible. I do NOT ride quality bikes to show the whole world my wallet. I ride because I like quality and have the means to pay for it. Sounds like you got a bad case of wallet envy!
I am pretty sure that Time Bikes is now under American ownership, but they are still made in Europe.
Yeh they split the brand, some company got the frame biz & Sram got the pedals & shut the french factory 🤦♂️
They should of thrown in the options Chromoly steel 👍
That seat post to me is sketch at best. I seen where they were cracking.
I think she read the room wrong there…
The comments will be how stupid it is to bring the environment into the conversation talking about incredibly low impact electronic shifting.
Crunching my tongue for what I want to say!!! 😁😁
I don’t agree all kinds of crazy AZZ pollution in getting metal to bicycle frame use
He's right , a TOMMASINI e-bike is like a Rolls Royce Phantom EWB...........................diesel !!!!
Titanium Mechanical Champagnolo Road, or go MTB
Oh kmon, this microscopic amounts of cycle gear wasted in comparison to all the pladtic packaging and all the fast food clothing and stuuf, thats just ridiculous
Your podcast took more energy than jut about all the watchers Di2 combined, your eco argument is just stupid.
You can recycle carbon and lasts longer these days and alloy production is hidiously energy intensive.....
These two are so full of inaccuracies and contradictions. They can’t hate on brands and price then espouse even more expensive alternatives. Come on Cade Media, I had better hopes for you.
Aluminum
You lost me when you said electric shifting was “unenvironmentally friendly” cause it causes us to have a reliance on energy. Your phone? Your computer? Producing less waste cause you don’t have to change your cables and plastic housing every year which uses energy to make these materials. Unsubscribed
Time trial cant happen with traffic.... u must clear the roads..... road.trail.timetrial. canyon all the way.😂
Your environmental worries are commendable, but really all over the place. "Carbon is not recyclable" - sure, but aluminum is FAR more energy consuming to remove it from the ground in the first place (and damaging to env) and than again to mold it into shape - did you check on that? di2 charging is an issue? c'mon! to make an impact we need to focus on things that matter significantly, not to get distracted with every other thing!
I can't believe they're even talking about "the environmental impact" of these materials. Lol!!
REALLY putting Nick on the spot here Jimmy…….
This is such a useless chit chat that it hurts. Why this stuff is even recommended to my in my homepage? You would save planet more by not flooding internet by garbage
Who cares if you can't recycle a carbon bike? It takes carbon out of the environment and isolates it. Isn't that what you want
Oh, and I ride Trek.
Is this a podcast for overweight freds?
Love Steel. Cheap, repairable, strong, recyclable. It's a Win, Win, Win
BS
Nic is a mountain biker pretending to be a gravel rider. It is so obvious.