Exploring Causal Loops in Cinema | Time Travel Analysis
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2017
- Today we discuss one of my favorite topics: Time Travel. Specifically, causal loops and how they are mistreated in most time travel stories. We deal with everything from Terminator to Back to the Future to About Time to The Butterfly Effect. None of the mainstays are safe!
Truth be told, this is all in an effort to talk about one of my favorite movies, Primer. A 2004 Indie darling, Primer is a complex look into what would happen if two garage engineers accidentally made a time machine. It's complex, down in the dirt, and all too real of a look into how quickly things spiral out of hand. Add to that, this 77 movie features over 11 timelines, most implicit rather than shown in film.
As for the other movies in this list, Looper had a lot of promise but it's Terminator-style rules definitely turned me off, The Butterfly Effect does a decent job at staying true to causality, and About Time is relatively safe, but emotionally satisfying in a way Primer could never be.
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All the Primer Timelines and Graphs
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Definite Timeline for Primer (Paul @ Unreality Mag)
unrealitymag.com/movies/at-las...
Time Travel in Primer by Tom-B
www.flickr.com/photos/tom-b
Primer Comprehensive Timeline
cargocollective.com/lauraells
Primer Timeline by Randall Munroe
xkcd.com/657/large/
Primer Definitive Explanation and Timeline
imgur.com/VACTBSE
How Primer's Timeline works Correct
tylerskrabek.deviantart.com/ga...
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Movies Featured
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About Time (2013) - amzn.to/2szYmrP
Back to the Future 1 & 2 (1985/1989) - amzn.to/2sA5Mvx
Ghost in the Shell (2017) - amzn.to/2sXr85e
Groundhog Day (1993) - amzn.to/2uUDPPF
Looper (2012) - amzn.to/2u2wX6l
Primer (2004) - amzn.to/2u1WrRk
Terminator (1984) - amzn.to/2u1TKza
Terminator: Genisys (2015) - amzn.to/2u1M3sR
The Butterfly Effect (2004) - amzn.to/2uUO7zf
Time Bandits (1981) - amzn.to/2sA08cM
Twelve Monkeys (1995) - amzn.to/2u2f7jO
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Other Used Media
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"Who's Shane Carruth?" by austinmcconnell
• Video
Shane Carruth (Rian Johnson)
loopermovie.tumblr.com/post/2...
Rian Johnson; Photo by Jessica Rao
www.interviewmagazine.com/film...
Shane Carruth; Photo by Pari Dukovic
www.wired.com/2013/03/primer-...
Beneath Sci-Fi Sound: Primer, Science Fiction Sound Design, and American Independent Cinema by Nessa Johnston, University of Glasgow
www.alphavillejournal.com/Issu...
----------------------------- - Фільми й анімація
The quality of acting in this movie, via the dialogue, was interestingly realistic. They don't let you remember they are actors.
Ehh , but it made for a stilted , boring movie , unless you’re into it.
I’ve tried to show this movie to many people...they all hated it.
There was only one instance where the actor seemed like they were reading their lines... but that was because they really were. It was brilliant.
this is literally the best time travel movie ever made
I really like _Primer_ but I was even more impressed with it when I found out the whole thing was shot on a production budget of just $7,000.
(yes, seven thousand, I didn't forget any numbers ^^)
Well that makes sense, the box looks like a taped together plastic drawers u buy from Walmart with a bunch of USB and coax cables taped to it.
And they had one outfit the whole movie, even during the basket ball scene my guy was still in suit and tie.
Ever since the flick was released, the extremely low budget is the first thing I mention when recommending it to people. Primer is a great example of limits enhancing creativity. I'm sure the movie would be noticeably less intriguing if they would have had more money to make it.
That's just because it was made by real time travellers who just kept cutting the budget after several re-shootings of the film, over and over again. It was originally $100 million dollar film!
@@squirlmy$100 million in writing for sure
Primer is without a doubt one of the greatest time travel movies of all time. I think another interesting one is Triangle, where we see aaaaaalmost everything, but not quite; there are some events pictured that we don't quite get to follow, which have some interesting implications on the end of the film (IMO).
The exact same thing happens in primer. There’s a huge chunk that we don’t see in the film or we only see bits and pieces of it. An example of this is the father following them.
IDK, the big thing is that we have to re-evaluate everybody as possibly being a time traveler from a different time (or timeline, so to speak) Re-enacting, rather than reacting. Maybe I'm missing what you mean, but once I understood that point I was satisfied and didn't need further explanation. Everything can be yet an earlier time traveller, one upping the one whose goes further back. The movie's short, but I think ended perfectly, once this point gets across.
I've always maintained that we've never seen the real John Connor. In The Terminator universe, there is an 'original' timeline. In that timeline, John Connor had a father that was not Reese. Maybe it was the guy Sarah had a date with? It doesn't matter. This John went on to survive Judgement Day, and lead humanity to fight Skynet. When Skynet sent the Terminator back to kill his mother, John sent Reese back in time to protect his mother. In doing so, a new timeline was created, and Reese forged Sarah into the fighter she is, and became the father of a new John Connor. In each and every installment of the franchise, we see a different John Connor. That is representative of the fact that we are constantly shifting to an alternate timeline each film. Sadly, the war will truly never end, as Skynet will always be defeated and will always send a Terminator back, creating a new timeline to do it all over again.
Another theory is that there is a stable solution the system converges to. The "original" John Conner had a different father, yes. But once Reese retroactively becomes his father and all the paradoxes are accounted for, there is no reason for the timeline to change again... until T2. And some other movies after that, but let's not even get into those.
Have you seen the anime Steins;Gate? It breaks its own rules over a couple of seasons, but I feel each "plot hole or loophole" is carefully thought out, sacrifices get made for the sake of a good story, unlike Terminator".
Up to this day I’m speculating how Mr Granger got involved in the time travelling. Primer just won’t quit on you 🙃🙃🤣🤣
My theory was that in the original timeline something horrible happened to his daughter. And without interference from Aaron that is what will happen. I think Aaron likely brought him in to prevent the timeline where the bad things happen.
@@Wouldyoukindly4545 That's a good theory. The boxes were locked in the storage rooms, which implies that some version of Aaron and/or Abe allowed Mr. Granger access to one of the boxes. The only possible reasons for allowing him to use the box would be to either... (1) demonstrate that the boxes actually work (for business reasons); or the higher probability option... (2) to allow the version of Mr. Granger who had experienced the loss of his daughter to go back to a time before the shooting... BUT... either the versions of Aaron and Abe who Mr. Granger was following in the car were not the same versions who allowed him to use the box (both unaware of Mr. Granger's time travel)... OR... one of them (probably Aaron) allowed Mr. Granger to use the box but didn't tell the other (one aware and lying about it, the other not aware).
I can picture some version of Aaron telling a grieving Mr. Granger, "What if I told you there was a way to go back... ?"
The original commenter is right. The question of Mr. Granger is as important to the story as it is mysterious. I think I'll go watch Primer again.
@@evanward4303 I think you nailed that explanation (for years I thought it might've been the monetary aspect but I have recently realised it should be the 'daughter-gets-shot' scenario.
@@markzambelli It took a couple of viewings and some thinking to see it that way for me too. It's implied that in at least one timeline a shooting actually occurred, even though when Aaron tells the story in the movie, it was "the ex-boyfriend showed up with a gun". If this is the case, then in the original timeline the shooting will have always occurred, therefore there is always at least one Granger who suffered the loss of his daughter AND traveled back in time.
I'm pretty sure the movie is showing us (the viewer) only one of an unknowable number of timelines set in motion by the invention of the original machine (although if they REALLY wanted to screw with us, the movie could be scenes from multiple "separate" timelines, but I digress...). This implies that these answers are unknowable from the information we are given in the movie, and all the viewer can do is analyze the possibilities and probabilities if we so choose.
time travel is alluring and exciting to talk about , thank you for making this video. It was quite insightful!!
I enjoyed this as I love time travel theory. I am glad you pointed out a common issue with the traveller solving their main issue which would then reset the trip back to the original paradigm. Another instance I saw of this is in Time Cop. Max killed the man who funded and founds the time police therefore he wouldn't have traveled in time and McComb would still be alive, destroying the loop...or creating one.
I love Back to the Future and I never thought about how Marty would be completely different fitting in with his new family. He would be different as his upbringing would be as evident as his siblings are more close knit as his brother still comes home for breakfast in the mornings and his sister has so much confidence she gets railed by multiple guys. Marty would undoubtedly be in such a different place in life that it may negate him meeting Doc Brown at all. This eliminating his trip at all.
The last I will share is from that awful Time Machine movie that may have addressed this properly. Alexander made the Time Machine to save his murdered fiancé. However because the timeline of his and the machine's existence is wholly dependent on her death, she will die no matter what he does on that night which sort of emphasizes "fate." The Time Machine cannot undue it's own existence as it is the reason it is here and if undone, it could not have undone itself because it did not exist in the first place.
I absolutely love that reading of 2004's Time Machine. I've always had a love for that film, as well as the original, and I love the thought process that he's stuck in the loop because the machine is protecting its existence.
Something tell me Time Cop isn't going to have that deep of a message. But I've looked for it and none of my local stores have it! Aaaah!
@@DubiousConsumption Time Cop is more of an action movie for Jean Claude Van Damme then a time travel movie.
Another fascinating video once again. This really puts into perspective the comparison between different films and has brought to light many films in which I have not (until this point of time) heard of, but will now be looking into.
Since I did this, I have watched a few more time travel movies. One, Timecrimes, is a closed loop movie that was decent, but since it was closed I immediately had a distaste for. The other, Timelapse, I'm not even sure if I'd call it a time travel movie, since the rules are so loosely defined. Still, both are worth a watch.
Thank you again for the praise! Please, share if you haven't already. Anything to help grow the channel. ^_^
I know, five years, but I'm curious about why a time loop being closed bothers you. Are you so attached to the idea of free will that a pre-destined universe automatically causes you to dislike it? Many people feel this way. It's surprising to me because I don't, I'm not judging, I'm just wondering if you feel the way so many people seem to.
Looper was about a bunch of events that didn't and couldn't occur, hence a story that never happened, the writer may as well have written a series of what ifs. If someone could explain how a person that committed suicide can kill people after he is dead I will be quiet but you also have to explain how an assassin with no limbs, no eyes, and no life killed people. Now I like both "Source Code"(which has continuity issues) and "Predestination" which has origin issues caused by the time travel. For "Primer" the story sometimes is not very clear but I didn't see any continuity or origin issues other then the mass energy issue (and the machine uses way to little energy to cause such an effect) but it takes less energy to create a body then another universe.
Another thing about looper is that they said old.main character killing the mother got the events running so he just killed himself to stop that, however in the first timeline he didnt even kill or interact with the mother at all so it didnt matter. Its just all so unsatisfying
I'd love to hear your take on Dark. I agree with everything you said in this video, and that series has me very conflicted.
Dark started off well enough, but season 3 was a hot mess in my opinion. It seems they wrote themselves into a corner. They broke their own rules of time travel. They were piling up events and time lines and characters and versions of characters where, by the end of the series, none of the "events" even mattered anymore. I could feel the obvious "none of this ever happened" cop-out conclusion looming. I was hoping they would find another way... but they didn't. In the end like it felt like a waste of time.
Edit : I know nobody asked for my opinion, but I like sci fi and time travel stuff, and I had an unusually strong reaction to Dark. I started out liking it a lot, and ended up strongly disliking it to the point of annoyance. So there you go.
I had someone push me to watch DARK again. I tried jumping into season 2, but there was just so much I knew I'd have to start the series over.
Had that same feel with Mr. Robot, season 3.
It sounds like they overplayed their hand and collapsed into meaninglessness.
I agree with both of you. The new rules they suddenly introduced in S3 just broke the magic for me. Having one of the characters conclude, and then get replaced by an alternate, made me lose interest very quickly. They kept telling the audience, "I'm not the one you remember," which made it feel even cheaper. Unfortunate; still, I greatly enjoyed this series (the first two cycles, anyway), and thought the creators and cast did a phenomenal job. As an American, I also really like that this was German-made, and hope we'll get to see more cultures and countries contribute quality work to the wonderful realm of science fiction.
Agree with Mr Robot, in fact I would say only the first season was good, mostly because it had a plot borrowed wholesale from Fight Club. Then they saw trash in the street(fairly common irl NYC) and a few people partying in the street, and they give up on this ideal they must have worked towards for years!!! Also, Dark is sort of expert at opening or hinting at new scenarios with NO follow through, no conclusions, just one scene after another like an academic exercise. It wanted to be Twin Peaks. That's all you need to know.
Primer is about as actual as time travel can be shown without having to understand all the scientific equations and formulas.
Primer is so awesome because it reminds me of Reservoir Dogs. It has a low budget look on the surface, but everything else about it is high quality.
I think if time travel is real, the conservation laws of matter and energy can't be violated, which means you'd never be able to travel to a timeline in which your past or present double exists. The total balance of energy and matter always finds a way to reach 1:1. As you go forward or back in time, you change quantam time tracks and enter a parallel universe. All the versions of your self would make this shift in unison. If it didn't work this way, time travel would eventually result in some kind of causality feedback loop where the instability of time leads to the instability of space, energy, and matter. Another possible effect, in my mind, would be a bottleneck of matter in the universe, which doesn't even make sense, because the doubles of time travelling bodies and devices comes out of nothing. If time travel became a common technology, there would be endless situations in which matter was being duplicated, but never balanced out. The only way I can imagine the conservation laws not being violated with duplicates is if time travel converts energy from the destination into mass of the traveller. Borrowing all that energy to account for the new duplicates would probably lead to a cold, dead and stagnant universe after a while though.
I sort of think time travel is real and humans have known about it for a while. The only reason the tech has never leaked or become common knowledge is for the reasons I've stated: it can't be used to affect your own timeline. All you can do is hop between parallel universes that are not causally linked. The helplessness of linear time is still a reality even if you have a time machine. Also, the universe that you travel to might not even include your identity in the mix. If you actually were born in that universe, your double would have shifted out, and the identity of your double in that world would probably be entirely different than the identity you're used to. Either way, you'd essentially have to start a new life with strangers. The few people who have time travelled did it for a drastic new start, with no desire or reason to tell others about their secret. A lot of celebrities sick of fame probably fake their death and travel to a universe where they aren't famous and then blend in with the normies. Hitler probably lived out the rest of his life in a universe where he was successful, or not born at all.
The part of the laws of conservation makes no sense tho
The problem with your conservation of mass theory and multiple universes is that that energy would have to come from somewhere and since it would equal the mass of the (or a) universe, something that would mean a cold lifeless universe would be created with every parallel universe. Net increase of parallel universe would be zero.
I hate multiverse theories. Science isn't there, it's a strange possibility in some physics math. Why would it be limited to a few people, assuming the world doesn't end soon. There should be over thousands of years, billions of travellers. There should be strangely large crowds at Historical events like the Hindenburg explosion. It should be so common a few would regularly screw up and be found out. I mean, it's a more logical possibility for UFOs (AUFs, whatever) than interstellar visits, but there's still a lot less evidence for it than there should be.
Well thought out. Though it would seem traveling to the past is impossible above the quantum level.
However, accelerating movement to visit the future is being done today.
This essay only scratches the surface of time travel protocols in science fiction. More examples: The Man Who Folded Himself (David Gerrold), By His Bootstraps (Robert A. Heinlein), The Time Traveler's Wife (book and movie), Love and Teleportation (2013), PayCheck (2003, movie after a story by P. K. Dick), the several stories where you get to be 18 again and again, and many, many more. Time travel produces arguably richer plots than space travel any day.
By the way, the only consistent way you can travel to the past is if each year of travel displaces you one light year in space. Then, no matter what you do, the consequences of your actions cannot arrive before you left, due to the speed of light, which governs all event interactions. It prevents paradoxes without requiring a multiple infinity of universes.
That's interesting you mentioned light years! I was explaining to my daughter what a light year is... She was like whaaat! In the movie DejaVu with Denzel Washington it was great to see the "PHds in the room" explain the general theory of time... then explain how they stumble upon the ...
The traditional view of time is linear,
like a river flowing from the past
toward the future.
But you can change
the course of a river, right?
Exactly. Introduce a significant enough
event at any point in this river
and you create a new branch,
still flowing toward the future,
but along a different route. I thought that was a cool explanation.
@@Movieman1965 Cool explanations don't always obey the laws of physics, such as the second law of thermodynamics and the conservation of energy, to mention just two laws that are frequently ignored by "cool explanations". Time isn't really very much like a river. If it were, we would be able to travel at will along its banks, and this is certainly not the case. Time travel is fun to think about, but it's even more fun when you try to make it work according to reality, according to physics. Study physics: you'll enjoy science fiction time travel better and you will be more demanding of it.
@@david203 We will never time travel but it's fun and entertaining to watch all these movies that make it all seem possible. Have a great day!
I haven't seen Primer (now is on the top of my list), but I highly recommend The End of Eternity: it's a sci-fi novel by Isaac Asimov, and beyond its plane characters I think the idea it's pretty cool and propouses kind of an eternal loop without begining (?)
I'll definitely have to check it out. I haven't read too many time loop novels (more of a horror guy, myself) but that sounds worth the deep dive.
I read the novel: it’s amazing !
I loved this film. i watched the reviews and explanations on youtube first as im an aspiring writer/director and herd it mentioned on another youtube video, i watched it twice in one day and second time i really ( kinda) got it, with loads of unanswered questions and theories, and i just love that type of film that resignates with you even after watching, and it was only made on a 7 grand budget, just shows movies made with passion no matter what the budget can be powerful and impactful.
Subscribed ❤ loved Primer. Love movies that make you think. Coherence was also an interesting time loop movie.
U should watch Triangle. Its not really a time Travel movie but a time loop movie. Fantastic movie.
I've seen it once. Need to watch it again, but I'm wanting to create a "Recursive Hell" movie video and Triangle is perfect for that!
Dubious Consumption That would be cool. Triangle is overlooked so often but it is really cool. Most people do not understand the loops because the film only shows the half of what is happening. And then they say it is full with plotholes and say the movie is garbage.
@@Marco-yj9oc Definitely sounds like what I like about Primer.
From what I remember about Triangle was I liked how it showed us the thought process with each run. Unlike TimeCrimes, where it just felt he was doing things to get to the next setup.
currently i’m trying to understand attack on titan, so i watch all explanations about causal loops. my brain hurts and i feel like i would never get it
that scene in Looper with the dude being dismembered still creeps me out a bit but even the first time I saw it i was shaking my head thinking what u said...if he's losing limbs then it would change everything he would've never even been able to run from his younger self..but since no one really knows how time travel would work maybe it would be possible more like there's a thread linking u to your other self but the reality your in at the time can't be changed by what happens to your younger self..I'm a big Time Travel fan ...Primer is amongst my favorites but 12 Monkeys stands above them all as far as being thoughtful and entertaining... Back to The future will probably always be my favorite all around time travel movie
Primer is awesome but I didnt really get it until the 4th time I saw it. Each time I watched it I learned more and the 4th time was alot of stopping and rewinding lol. Only 77 mins but you spent alot more time watching it. Back to the future movies are just simple entertainment to me with tons of holes in it. For example bttf3 Doc saves Clara from dying then Marty tells him about the ravine named after her. Well if she doesnt fall that never happens and he shouldnt have that knowledge. There are tons of those in the bttf series, I still like them but just simple entertainment. Not sure if you've seen it so I wont spoil it just in case but Project Almanac I really like and that movie (while it has its holes as well) goes into the affects changing things with time travel and the mess it can cause.
Love Primer. Melts my brain trying to work it out but love it nonetheless.
I loved it very technical ,great concept I watched this and time lapse and sorse code very movies good dealing with time.
Imagination is the greatest power which opens doors for innovation. Maybe in the near future we will develop a time travel machine, until then travelling to our past and amending our mistakes is next to impossible.
I'd highly recommend checking out the SY FY Channel's Twelve Monkeys television series, as it has very few loose ends (story wise). It's altogether a really amazing show.
I LOVE primer. Seen it maybe 100 times. Its so deep
Primer is the greatest movie ever made, period. I am absolutely obsessed with this movie. I’ve told everyone I know to watch it and I swear I’ve never met anyone else in person who likes it like I do. I should get new friends.
it really is!
I've found another movie I deep dived into worse than Primer. Instead of time travel, it's quantum mechanics. Coherence became one of my great obsessions last year, and I need to write a new draft that tells more of that story.
@@DubiousConsumption Please make an analysis on Coherence! Absolutely adore that film. Watched it on a random suggestion from a friend and it's my favorite mindfuck movie!
Oh, my dude, you have no idea how deep I went last year into Coherence. Nathan and I have a minute by minute document of quotes, reveals and lines. I have a script right now that is me going through the plot with it all figured out, but am considering redoing it with a more "This is how I learned to watch Coherence."
I really need to find an editor because I wrote 63k worth of videos last year and have only completed one so far this year. ☠️☠️☠️
@@DubiousConsumption i’m sorry man but I literally just got done watching the movie and I went back to a few scenes and watched again just to try and make sure I understood as much as possible. This movie is not even close to the quality of primer in terms of dealing with time travel. Or, in this case, it’s more of dealing with different splintered and almost parallel universes that someone are connected and can see eachother. However you want to describe it or call it, the universe is intersect and it almost is similar to a time travel type movie. Definitely not the same as primer though and has a completely different premise. And different rules that it establishes.
Don’t get me wrong, it was a neat concept and fun but primer actually incorporated hard science and outlined an exact method for how their time travel worked. There are countless videos on UA-cam and Google articles explaining it which dives into the mythology. Coherence is not even on the same level as first they just do kind of a stupid explanation that a comment is coming by and things are mysterious and then they create a zone area that if you walk through things are mysterious and on and on. I’m absolutely blown away that rotten tomatoes gave coherence a higher score than primer. But I have a theory on why that is the case. I believe it’s because primer appeals to a more scientific and engineering only crowd. The nerd crowd so to speak. Whereas coherence is more accessible to people who don’t really wanna think about the science of how a time travel loop could occur. I encourage you to check out some of the videos breaking down what happened in primer and then to rewatch it as I think you will gain a better appreciation for the film and see how it is far superior as the greatest time travel movie ever made.
The show Dark on Netflix delves deep into casual loops and bootstrap paradoxes. On the same level as Primer regarding complexity. Worth a watch!
I've seen the first season and absolutely loved it. My pitch to people is: "What if David Fincher directed Twin Peaks with Primer-style time travel?"
I tried to jump into DARK Season 2 recently but I definitely need to rewatch the first season, then go directly into the third once I'm done with the 2nd.
@@DubiousConsumption id totally watch a video on it if you did one after watching
Time Lapse is also an interesting movie about time travel (or really precognition).
Check out my Recursive Hell video. I talk about Time Lapse as the extra 11th film. Still not sure if I'd consider it time travel, since they are too afraid to contradict what the photos show.
Legion on FX deals with similar issues in its 3rd season.
Final Countdown USS Nimitz Nuclear Aircraft carrier goes through a storm and arrives in 1941, December 6 1941. The ship returns to the present without any major changes to the past, however a man gets left behind in 1941 and at the end we discover he was the designer of the Nimitz that would not have been in the past if the Nimitz hadn't been there.
Very good video. But you should have included "Predestination". It's another great causal loop movie. 👍
My fav loops are Edge of Tomorrow and Predestination
What's your favorite time travel story? Do you believe in closed loops or should time travel affect past, present, and future in their stories?
Steins;Gate, all of the seasons and the movie too. I hear of fans wanting to eliminate some of it as (not canon) and I think that ridiculous. And yes there are inconsistencies, paradoxes, and rule-breaking, but I think the writers carefully considered what makes for the best story. For me in other stories, it's the laziness of time travel being violated for no good reason. It's different when there are just bigger priorities, and is left unexplained.
Primer comes closest to how time travel actually works.
Kkkkk
best comment!
I guess you could say that, since we have no idea how time travel ACTUALLY works because no one to my knowledge has invented a time machine. However time travel might not work like that because no one has made a time machine to test it.
Some other time travel movies I enjoyed -
Retroactive (1997)
Source Code (2011)
The Jacket (2005)
you should do a review of Deja Vu. My favourite time travel show
Another couple of awesome time travel films are The Infinite Man, and Predestination. You're welcome...
Have definitely enjoyed Predestination. It also was my introduction to Sarah Snook, and I'm always hyped when she shows up on something.
I haven't heard of The Infinite Man, but I'll definitely check it out.
it's an anime but i think if you watch it through the end steins gate is an amazing time travel story.
i'm not gonna spoil the end but it is pretty ingenious.
3:34 translation: rian had no idea what the fuck he was doing then either.
Safety Time Machine
1. Automatic door locked.
2. Goes invisible.
3. Moves airplanes over it.
4. Has camera/TV inside so time traveller only watchs history.
apparently the austin mcconnel video is gone from utube?
Weird. He might have taken it down when it was revealed how much of a shit heel Shane Carruth was. He definitely self-sabotaged himself.
Looks like I have an old downloaded copy of it. If you want to check it out, contact me on Twitter and I can get it to you.
Tenet is the only "time travel" movie that works, and that's only because it's about time-reversal
Not a big fan of TENET. Saw it multiple times in theaters and own it on 4K. It does have an interesting hook, and I like how certain things are paid off - like the conflicting truths about what happened on the boat where Sator is taking out of the equation.
I'd argue Primer is still one of the best. It does have a similar premise to TENET's time travel. In T, you have to enter a device that is reproducible and you have to physically go backwards through time and space to get where you want to be, though you do have to go through the device again to come out. But you can go back as far as you want, as long as you can find a portal to go through.
Primer, similarly, requires the box to travel back, and it can only go back to when the box was turned on. You can break down the boxes and take them back, but, until the final scene, their boxes were too big to keep one on inside another. Primer is a much smaller film though, and Abe spends most of his time afraid of interacting with their past selves, whereas Aaron throws caution to the wind and begins to knock out his doubles and take over their lives (rats in the attic). Primer is just a lot harder to understand because Shane Carruth didn't know much about filmmaking - to the point that he didn't record any B footage to extend the movie.
But both stories are about manipulation through pincer maneuvers.
Have you seen Palm Springs?
Good groundhog day concept
Andy Sandberg et al
I liked primer-
Primer is soo hard to grasp, ive seen explanation videos about it but still am none the wiser
I'm interested in working with you on a time travel story, if that's possible. Trying to contact you but haven't found a better way. Let me know if you're watching your messages.
What about predestination it is marvellous
Yes, best time travel film.
What about Jumpers?
If only this video could cover Tenet…
Triangle is a good movie, and Coherence is interesting.
Have you heard about or researched the mandela effect, also known as the quantum effect?
No, can you please explain what it is about?
Time *LOOP*
Looper rules
Harry Potter and The Prisoner of Askaban has the most realistic time travel, change my mind.
Who came here after DARK
Man, I love the first season of DARK. I just feel like I need to rewatch it to be able to get back into DARK season 2 and beyond.
Primer rules
Predestination takes the cake. SPOILER.......He goes back in time to stop himself from blowing up a building whilst also becoming his own father AND mother then kidnapping himself and abandoning himself on an orphanage doorstep.
I’m not a big fan of Primer. It’s just too needlessly confusing, and the fact that a lot of it is open to interpretation, just makes me less likely to want to keep watching it over and over again, when I can just watch theory videos and descriptions of what happens.
My favourite time travel stories are those with closed loops. Predestination and 12 Monkeys are my favourite time travel films. But the TV version of 12 Monkeys is probably my favourite time travel story ever. Dark is also a fantastic German show about time travel.
Totally understand. It just griped me and took 3 viewings before I could follow the conversations.
I tend to describe DARK as Twin Peaks directed by David Lynch, mixed with Primer's time travel. Great pull and list!
I watched it twice. I may watch it a third time and see if I like it more then.
Yeah, I’m actually just. I was watcbing Twin Peaks, and definitely see the similarities. But I’m not sure I’d say the time travel is that similar to that in Primer. Everything that happens in Dark, has already happened. In Primer, some scenes, like where they talk at a bench, clearly didn’t happen the way they did in the first place. Where as in Dark, when Jonas talks to his other self, that loop will repeat forever.
Primer has a boring story and I don’t mean it is boring. Primer story can be shown in 6 minutes and if we do it will be boring. But Primer is using a technique, that is based on confusing audience. It makes them think and by this entertain them. But it is not used very often, because…
If we assume there is three persons A, B and C. And that C is smarter then B, but B is smarter than A. And if the movie is confusing B, then it misleads A and just show boring story to C.
Primer is boring to A and C. But it is not boring, unless you are me.
I'm sorry you didn't like Primer. It happens.
If you search Primer explained, there is one that takes about 7 minutes. And they even say they won't cover Aaron's plan around the birthday party, or Granger's appearance. Every other one takes roughly 20 minutes to break it down if you bring in those two events.
What's your favorite time travel movie?
so are you C?
@@aptonymic3014 I mean, based off your logic, I'm B.
I can't remember if I said this in the video, but it took me three times watching it to follow the conversations, even more to drop away the noise.
It's engineers talking and definitely a utilitarian way of shooting, since Shane Caruth didn't even think to shoot B roll.
What I love about it is that almost everything (Granger obviously excluded) has a payoff as you learn more and more about the rules and how they've been subverted and redefined. Stuff like that the "rats/birds" in the attic are actually original Aaron already drugged from the very beginning.
Anyway, I don't find it boring, I find it intriguing.
I wish people wouldn't treat primer as gods gift to time travel fans just because it only half explains things in an attempt to be mysterious. It's a good time travel movie but is it really that great?
Seeing as I've watched it over 50 times, I'd say yeah. But that's personal opinion. Some of my favorite films were also inspired by Primer's way of giving you information. I personally love to drop into movies and books that expect me to pay attention. It did take me a few viewings to be able to follow the conversations properly, but after that, it's one of my favorite films, not just in the Time Travel genre.
DiskoSpider What's your favorite time travel film? I'd love to check it out if I haven't seen it yet.
Dubious Consumption Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure
I agree. I find Primer a bit pretentious in that it holds back alot of information, making you rack your brain trying to figure it out, just so it can make you say, "Gee, this movie sure is complicated, and therefore super smart." Fuck all that noise. Don't get me wrong. I don't want movies to hand me all exposition on a silver platter, but I don't want to have to watch it 20 times and seek out many external sources to fully understand it. If I, or the majority of audiences that are fans of time travel have to watch several videos that explain it, your movie is a bit full of itself.
I can understand that viewpoint. For some reason it captured my imagination. I remember showing the opening dinner table scene to a friend of mine and stopped it as soon as they stopped talking about their projects. I asked him what happened there and he replied, "I don't know. But it was something cool."
If I were to fall back on a second favorite Time Travel movie, it'd be About Time or Predestination. While not strictly Time Travel, if I was to bend the rules to be loops, then Groundhog Day and Edge of Tomorrow would be at the top.
Really would've been nice to have the spoiler warning BEFORE you started talking about 12 Monkeys, instead of giving it halfway into the spoiler itself
It's been out for 27 years, La Jatee is 60 years old. The statute of limitations has long since expired.
4:21 you thought ruin jonson was a good director!?
He is undoubtedly so. You probably just don't like his writing.
Hes a fantastic director. His writing on TLJ wasnt the best but that's really the only misstep his career has had.