He didn't always work only 3 hours a day... From the Quanta profile: "When he was completing his doctorate in Michigan, for instance, “I would cut off almost everything else,” Huh said...He lived off frozen pizza for months at a time because he didn’t want to deal with getting groceries and cooking. He just wanted to do math. He describes that period of his life as “almost monastic.” In fact, at the time, he really only spoke with another person - Mustaţă, his adviser - once a week. Kim recalls visiting Huh when he was still in Illinois, and “after that, I really rethought our relationship,” she said. “Should I marry him? Because he [cannot] handle real-life skills, surviving skills.”"
@@irok1 Basically my life right now. Not kidding, I am a PhD student writing up my thesis. Sometimes yt distracts me, which makes me angry about myself btw.
That sounds like a guy i know. stuck in the house alone trying to beat all the professors in nuclear energy because he has a unique idea. talks to no one for almost a month. Hasn't had sex in 4 years! Lol. He wants to use microwaves to power the world! hahaha. He can't handle real-life skills, struggles to survive but believes once he's done his struggles will be all worth it. I always ask him, 'what if you die tomorrow and never make it to the end of your project?, you should have some fun' - it always falls on deaf ears. it's like he's possessed by something and he will stop at nothing till he has succeeded in using microwaves to power the world. I feel sorry for him
Most people are busy for nothing! truly valuable work comes through a burst of inspiration. it can come for 5 minutes. then you spend the 2 hours 55 minutes fine-tuning the idea and prepping it for another great 5 minute burst of inspiration.
The issue here is the definition of work. Problem solving has at least two main aspects: having ideas as to how to approach the problem, and then working out the technical details whether the ideas actually work. Ideas can come to you at different times, such as while walking, relaxing, taking a shower, etc., and if you overworked you are less likely to have ideas. Working out the technical details is what counts as work in the strict sense of the word, and perhaps doing this for a few hours a day would tire you out, and would keep you from having fruitful ideas that need a relaxed mind. The problems to be solved can come from mathematics, physics, engineering, or other areas of life.
The great mathematician G.H. Hardy proposed working very hard for about 4 hours a day, but most people I know consider this unrealistic, and it probably wasn’t what Hardy himself did as a young man. There is just so much to learn before you reach that point.
Isn't it so powerful of taking a trip and getting your mind on something else to solving problems or finding that spark of intuition on how to approach a problem in a different way. I find that rigorous outdoor adventure helps me write and think about my life in a detached problem solving way
@@Alex-ns6hj and its common with other inventors and notable scientists who came up with innovative ideas. Why does it work? After focused learning, during diffused mode, "cross connection" of different information in our brain happens... That's where creativity and breakthrough happens. For example the scientists who came up with benzene structure, edison with his pen, Einstein with his violin, and many more.
My fathers and grandfathers worked. They didn't exhaust after long hours of building, laboring, and raising children. I've listened to 12 podcasts and understand in part, but there is such a tone deafness in this space that I can't quite define. Let me give you an example, in a given day I'll compose a court doc, take the dogs for a walk, make calls and send emails, pay bills, make dinner for three households, deliver those dinners, prep lunches, prepare to see cpa, compose three blog articles and see a movie, clean kitchen, house, etc. Huh loses his humanity eats frozen pizzas and speaks to one person and that's... damn near godlike behavior? Lol what is the point of productivity if you lose your health? What is the point of life if not to give to others? Makes me want to start a podcast on mixed work, deep, shallow and everything in between. Lol
sounds like an interesting idea, certainly there is a catch between how productive we can be in relation to momentum and precedented knowledge. you are describing activities related to physical activity (building, etc.), but Cal is talking about a cognitive type of work, one that engages in research and experimenting, and where creativity and observation play a crucial role on the development of the aimed objectives. it would be very interesting to undesrtand how the bridge of physical capabilities (with regards to continued practice) within the mental/cognitive/creative spectrum can shift the productivity of an individual. some sort of a psychosomatic relation to creativity. if you see it, develop it, maybe you see something nobody else does.
@@joaquinz.c To get an "atta boy" from academia once in a while is not impressive if you lack the social skills, and humanity that "scholars" seem to have. In the Bible, it speaks about what a person is is what they talk about and for all the talk on productivity, there is still no satisfaction in the execution. I read the comments on many, many different thought leaders and it's circling around a point and never landing. People realize that they wasted months learning about prod. apps., systems of organizations when they really could have spent it doing. It's another form of procrastination. In other words, look at the views of Cal's videos. It's a niche within a niche. It strives and strives to get to a point and then veers into another direction. My "fathers and grandfathers" did not have time to learn about productivity because they were out building, creating, experimenting and repairing...everything. They lived during a time when every man knew how to do something and was a craftsman. I'm "young" enough to look around me now and see next to no craftsmanship/workmanship in the general male population. I realize this is a characterization, but I can respect men who do things as opposed to thinking about doing things. And when I say "building" I mean fabrication of materials, reading blueprints, managing teams of trades, city building...so that folks like Cal sit on their arses thinking. lol (I'm picking on Cal only because I watched SO many of his videos and then watch a 6-minute video by Tiago Forte and get more out of it.) My father is also 80 years old and is still running teams, doing the work alongside 30 years olds. His contemporaries that went onto Stanford Law or who became pro baseball players all have Parkinsons or Alzheimers for decades, not know who they are or their families. These "scholars" have dad bods or they are skinny rails. My father looks like he's 60. My point...lol, is that for all this talk of cognitive work, it won't last unless you are eating properly, lifting, and exercising/moving every day (not this standing desk crap either. lol) all day, which is counter to the modern office environment. I left the law offices after 3 months as I hated the life and started my businesses. After 2 months of watching productivity videos from many, many channels...the curiosity crashed and burned as I was like, "show me you know how to be human and then I'll listen to you". We all need to be intractable and stop taking advice from people we assume have it together.
@@michelleadams5609 I think you're missing the point. Not every influencer has to show his whole life. He may just want to share his experiences and thoughts on a given field. Period. On Cal's case, he talks about productivity. It's not that deep. Of course he has his family, private life, etc etc, but he doesn't need to show you any of this. With all due respect, it's none of your business.
@@michelleadams5609 But I agree with 100% of what you just said about wasting time watching productivity videos. At the end of the day, it's all about TAKING ACTION.
@@michelleadams5609 Also, you generalize "scholars", and talk as if it were bad for a man to dedicate himself to intellectual pursuits... Well, what makes the West different than other civilizations is the intelectuality. Also, the example of your dad is confirmation bias, cherry picking, as there are many men who lived the same life as his and they also have dementia or alzheimer's, such as the "scholars" you demonize. I recommend you look up Andrew Huberman, he's a well-known scientist AND takes care of his body, does weight lifting and all that. And about the mathematician: doing a couple months/years of "monk-like work" doesn't mean he'll be like that his whole life. Come on. No one is defending that. He's seen as "godlike" because of his dedication. Period.
I thought about Deep Work when I read the profile Initially. It's well worth reading the other profiles on Quanta also, quite in depth and interesting. Thanks, Cal...love the book.
This guy is either the brilliant prophet of productivity’s new era. Or a startlingly effective Machiavellian. “I know a guy who only writes a single day a week” “But you write everyday don’t you?” “I do…” Love the podcast!
for creative people (around 25% of the population), especially high creative people with low conscientiousness, like me (and around 10% of the population), the "grind" talk or "productivity" talk is worse than drugs, is a complete life destroyer. We are not productive at all, we waste 70% of our time, but ironically, when we do work, we work out of pure pleasure and, at least myself, have managed to create spectacular things, either dissertations in college of professionally in terms of software. People really need to understand that we are not all wired the same way, and you need to be yourself. Some people do in 1 hour what takes 3 or 4 days for other people to do, but then they need 3 or 4 days of rest that other people don´t need. It´s all about making the world adapt to you, not killing yourself slowly just to adapt to some stupid outside rules and "grind mentalities"
felt so related. writing, editing, and streamlining is a nonlinear process. the moment associating comes after the experimentation phase is what makes the art released.
I'm writing my PhD ATM. This has been incredibly helpful, Cal. And actually pretty profound. Would love to hear more about this. Edit, a book about slow productivity. Can't wait to read it
Is doing a PhD mostly fun a ND enjoyable le and not too stressful at least for you..and can you apply his style of worming 3-5 hiurs a day to complete your PhD? I'm not sure I'd want to do it if I couldn't do that..
13:08 Use the the same phrase for that state of mind! [Forward momentum] Cool to see that I'm actually not the only one doing that [and this was just surprising to me by itself🙂]
I love Cal’s work. My thought below isn’t knocking it. It seems there’s a productivity paradox in the self-improvement industry. If he asked himself: ‘what is the most efficient & effective modality to convey the key principles of his new book?’… Would it be via a 60k word book, or hundreds of overlapping vids, clips & newsletters? Not that we don’t enjoy all those items…
Deep work is good from productivity standards when you are getting something done. However being creative is not the same. Neuroscience shows that DMN (Default Mode Network) aka a wondering mind, is the state of mind where creative ideas are formed and is just diametrically opposite to being focused. Nuh was working on a problem and to that end, trying out different ways to reach a solution needs dedicated deep work. I believe Deep work can be a preparatory stage for collecting data but then you need to be disengaged to let the data connect in novel ways to froth forward a novel idea or have insights. I think Huberman hinted the same on Lex Fridman podcast when asked about the deep work and creativity.
Today I learned the Fields Medal is a real thing. I thought it was made up for that Robin Williams movie where he gets in a fight with the math professor about doing the right thing for Matt Damon, who picks this moment to show up awkwardly. Fortunately, the fight is not really about him, but other stuff that goes way back. "It's not your fault." Cry. Hug. Drive across the country and get your girl back. The End.
Aloha Cal, have you done any writing on Lean Office? If so, can you point me to it? I ask because Lean, both Lean Office and Lean Manufacturing, is about cutting out all waste and focusing on the "value stream" and coheres with Deep work, and even Slow work. Mahalo.
Cal's book is like this too. Not very dense information wise, and a large portion devoted to promoting his brand. The message is a extremely valuable underlining and reminder that deep work is where it's at. But the way he goes through it is immensely over cooked. If you've heard an interview somewhere, you've probably heard it all. Just my 2c.
I wonder what studies show...I mean, if it's only Jun, lol...if there are other examples of geniuses working so little...I don't know, I suspect there are cases of them working quite a few hours...but maybe I'm wrong...
5:05 "a task that he doesn't particularly want to do like scheduling those appointments". So this guy doesn't want to make doctors' appointments for his sons? WTF
this guy can hardly READ a paper in front of his eyes. AMAZING how much trust can i have for wasting my time watching this self help yt video? his profile is quite long isn't it? giving how much effort you take to read a text YOU WERE SO TIRED AFTER READING THE PROFILE YOU TOOK SLEEP FOR HALF A DAY AFTER
I met one of Huh's students. He told me to take Huh saying he works "3 hours a day" with a grain of salt.
He didn't always work only 3 hours a day...
From the Quanta profile:
"When he was completing his doctorate in Michigan, for instance, “I would cut off almost everything else,” Huh said...He lived off frozen pizza for months at a time because he didn’t want to deal with getting groceries and cooking. He just wanted to do math. He describes that period of his life as “almost monastic.” In fact, at the time, he really only spoke with another person - Mustaţă, his adviser - once a week. Kim recalls visiting Huh when he was still in Illinois, and “after that, I really rethought our relationship,” she said. “Should I marry him? Because he [cannot] handle real-life skills, surviving skills.”"
Exactly, living almost distraction free for hours doing maths(deep work against shallow work)!
That was before internet access was so easy😢.
@@Neater_profile I've heard this happening today tbf
@@irok1 Basically my life right now. Not kidding, I am a PhD student writing up my thesis. Sometimes yt distracts me, which makes me angry about myself btw.
That sounds like a guy i know. stuck in the house alone trying to beat all the professors in nuclear energy because he has a unique idea. talks to no one for almost a month. Hasn't had sex in 4 years! Lol. He wants to use microwaves to power the world! hahaha. He can't handle real-life skills, struggles to survive but believes once he's done his struggles will be all worth it. I always ask him, 'what if you die tomorrow and never make it to the end of your project?, you should have some fun' - it always falls on deaf ears. it's like he's possessed by something and he will stop at nothing till he has succeeded in using microwaves to power the world. I feel sorry for him
Most people are busy for nothing! truly valuable work comes through a burst of inspiration. it can come for 5 minutes. then you spend the 2 hours 55 minutes fine-tuning the idea and prepping it for another great 5 minute burst of inspiration.
The issue here is the definition of work. Problem solving has at least two main aspects: having ideas as to how to approach the problem, and then working out the technical details whether the ideas actually work. Ideas can come to you at different times, such as while walking, relaxing, taking a shower, etc., and if you overworked you are less likely to have ideas. Working out the technical details is what counts as work in the strict sense of the word, and perhaps doing this for a few hours a day would tire you out, and would keep you from having fruitful ideas that need a relaxed mind. The problems to be solved can come from mathematics, physics, engineering, or other areas of life.
The great mathematician G.H. Hardy proposed working very hard for about 4 hours a day, but most people I know consider this unrealistic, and it probably wasn’t what Hardy himself did as a young man. There is just so much to learn before you reach that point.
Isn't it so powerful of taking a trip and getting your mind on something else to solving problems or finding that spark of intuition on how to approach a problem in a different way. I find that rigorous outdoor adventure helps me write and think about my life in a detached problem solving way
Barbara Oakley talks about this in her book called "A Mind for Numbers". She calls it diffused mode, essentially what you just described.
@@Alex-ns6hj and its common with other inventors and notable scientists who came up with innovative ideas.
Why does it work? After focused learning, during diffused mode, "cross connection" of different information in our brain happens... That's where creativity and breakthrough happens. For example the scientists who came up with benzene structure, edison with his pen, Einstein with his violin, and many more.
He is talented...period.😊 When I was in graduate, the top students studied as hell. They even slept at the lab.
My fathers and grandfathers worked. They didn't exhaust after long hours of building, laboring, and raising children. I've listened to 12 podcasts and understand in part, but there is such a tone deafness in this space that I can't quite define. Let me give you an example, in a given day I'll compose a court doc, take the dogs for a walk, make calls and send emails, pay bills, make dinner for three households, deliver those dinners, prep lunches, prepare to see cpa, compose three blog articles and see a movie, clean kitchen, house, etc. Huh loses his humanity eats frozen pizzas and speaks to one person and that's... damn near godlike behavior? Lol what is the point of productivity if you lose your health? What is the point of life if not to give to others? Makes me want to start a podcast on mixed work, deep, shallow and everything in between. Lol
sounds like an interesting idea, certainly there is a catch between how productive we can be in relation to momentum and precedented knowledge. you are describing activities related to physical activity (building, etc.), but Cal is talking about a cognitive type of work, one that engages in research and experimenting, and where creativity and observation play a crucial role on the development of the aimed objectives. it would be very interesting to undesrtand how the bridge of physical capabilities (with regards to continued practice) within the mental/cognitive/creative spectrum can shift the productivity of an individual. some sort of a psychosomatic relation to creativity. if you see it, develop it, maybe you see something nobody else does.
@@joaquinz.c To get an "atta boy" from academia once in a while is not impressive if you lack the social skills, and humanity that "scholars" seem to have. In the Bible, it speaks about what a person is is what they talk about and for all the talk on productivity, there is still no satisfaction in the execution. I read the comments on many, many different thought leaders and it's circling around a point and never landing. People realize that they wasted months learning about prod. apps., systems of organizations when they really could have spent it doing. It's another form of procrastination.
In other words, look at the views of Cal's videos. It's a niche within a niche. It strives and strives to get to a point and then veers into another direction. My "fathers and grandfathers" did not have time to learn about productivity because they were out building, creating, experimenting and repairing...everything. They lived during a time when every man knew how to do something and was a craftsman. I'm "young" enough to look around me now and see next to no craftsmanship/workmanship in the general male population. I realize this is a characterization, but I can respect men who do things as opposed to thinking about doing things.
And when I say "building" I mean fabrication of materials, reading blueprints, managing teams of trades, city building...so that folks like Cal sit on their arses thinking. lol (I'm picking on Cal only because I watched SO many of his videos and then watch a 6-minute video by Tiago Forte and get more out of it.)
My father is also 80 years old and is still running teams, doing the work alongside 30 years olds. His contemporaries that went onto Stanford Law or who became pro baseball players all have Parkinsons or Alzheimers for decades, not know who they are or their families. These "scholars" have dad bods or they are skinny rails. My father looks like he's 60. My point...lol, is that for all this talk of cognitive work, it won't last unless you are eating properly, lifting, and exercising/moving every day (not this standing desk crap either. lol) all day, which is counter to the modern office environment. I left the law offices after 3 months as I hated the life and started my businesses.
After 2 months of watching productivity videos from many, many channels...the curiosity crashed and burned as I was like, "show me you know how to be human and then I'll listen to you". We all need to be intractable and stop taking advice from people we assume have it together.
@@michelleadams5609 I think you're missing the point. Not every influencer has to show his whole life. He may just want to share his experiences and thoughts on a given field. Period. On Cal's case, he talks about productivity. It's not that deep. Of course he has his family, private life, etc etc, but he doesn't need to show you any of this. With all due respect, it's none of your business.
@@michelleadams5609 But I agree with 100% of what you just said about wasting time watching productivity videos. At the end of the day, it's all about TAKING ACTION.
@@michelleadams5609 Also, you generalize "scholars", and talk as if it were bad for a man to dedicate himself to intellectual pursuits... Well, what makes the West different than other civilizations is the intelectuality. Also, the example of your dad is confirmation bias, cherry picking, as there are many men who lived the same life as his and they also have dementia or alzheimer's, such as the "scholars" you demonize.
I recommend you look up Andrew Huberman, he's a well-known scientist AND takes care of his body, does weight lifting and all that.
And about the mathematician: doing a couple months/years of "monk-like work" doesn't mean he'll be like that his whole life. Come on. No one is defending that. He's seen as "godlike" because of his dedication. Period.
I thought about Deep Work when I read the profile Initially. It's well worth reading the other profiles on Quanta also, quite in depth and interesting. Thanks, Cal...love the book.
This guy is either the brilliant prophet of productivity’s new era.
Or a startlingly effective Machiavellian.
“I know a guy who only writes a single day a week”
“But you write everyday don’t you?”
“I do…”
Love the podcast!
😁
for creative people (around 25% of the population), especially high creative people with low conscientiousness, like me (and around 10% of the population), the "grind" talk or "productivity" talk is worse than drugs, is a complete life destroyer. We are not productive at all, we waste 70% of our time, but ironically, when we do work, we work out of pure pleasure and, at least myself, have managed to create spectacular things, either dissertations in college of professionally in terms of software.
People really need to understand that we are not all wired the same way, and you need to be yourself. Some people do in 1 hour what takes 3 or 4 days for other people to do, but then they need 3 or 4 days of rest that other people don´t need. It´s all about making the world adapt to you, not killing yourself slowly just to adapt to some stupid outside rules and "grind mentalities"
felt so related. writing, editing, and streamlining is a nonlinear process. the moment associating comes after the experimentation phase is what makes the art released.
people who work short hours are constantly thinking about what they are going to do during those short hours
I'm writing my PhD ATM. This has been incredibly helpful, Cal. And actually pretty profound. Would love to hear more about this.
Edit, a book about slow productivity. Can't wait to read it
Is doing a PhD mostly fun a ND enjoyable le and not too stressful at least for you..and can you apply his style of worming 3-5 hiurs a day to complete your PhD? I'm not sure I'd want to do it if I couldn't do that..
@@leif1075 True, please don't gamble your phd by taking advice from random strangers. June Huh worked way more than 3 hours per day.
13:08
Use the the same phrase for that state of mind! [Forward momentum]
Cool to see that I'm actually not the only one doing that [and this was just surprising to me by itself🙂]
3 hours of high quality work "in the zone" does more for me than a whole week of active unproductivity.
I love Cal’s work. My thought below isn’t knocking it. It seems there’s a productivity paradox in the self-improvement industry. If he asked himself: ‘what is the most efficient & effective modality to convey the key principles of his new book?’…
Would it be via a 60k word book, or hundreds of overlapping vids, clips & newsletters? Not that we don’t enjoy all those items…
This is so valuable, I think you're right on the ball here Cal.
Brilliant points
Anybody who can get into Princeton is already genius
Deep work is good from productivity standards when you are getting something done. However being creative is not the same. Neuroscience shows that DMN (Default Mode Network) aka a wondering mind, is the state of mind where creative ideas are formed and is just diametrically opposite to being focused. Nuh was working on a problem and to that end, trying out different ways to reach a solution needs dedicated deep work. I believe Deep work can be a preparatory stage for collecting data but then you need to be disengaged to let the data connect in novel ways to froth forward a novel idea or have insights. I think Huberman hinted the same on Lex Fridman podcast when asked about the deep work and creativity.
I didn't get half decent at math until I started taking 2 classes a semester and skateboarding 5 hours a day
I'm not gonna make it though
truth, it is an important principle, I need to read the book.
Key: "two unrelated states"
(effort and value)
a/k/a: don't miss the point by focusing on the "3 Hours a Day" thing
Great inspiring stuff!
I wish that can be applied to the workplace where 12 hr workdays are the norm
Today I learned the Fields Medal is a real thing. I thought it was made up for that Robin Williams movie where he gets in a fight with the math professor about doing the right thing for Matt Damon, who picks this moment to show up awkwardly. Fortunately, the fight is not really about him, but other stuff that goes way back. "It's not your fault." Cry. Hug. Drive across the country and get your girl back. The End.
Aloha Cal, have you done any writing on Lean Office? If so, can you point me to it? I ask because Lean, both Lean Office and Lean Manufacturing, is about cutting out all waste and focusing on the "value stream" and coheres with Deep work, and even Slow work. Mahalo.
Cal's book is like this too. Not very dense information wise, and a large portion devoted to promoting his brand.
The message is a extremely valuable underlining and reminder that deep work is where it's at. But the way he goes through it is immensely over cooked. If you've heard an interview somewhere, you've probably heard it all. Just my 2c.
This concept of obsessing over Deep Life-like behaviours shall now be called
Deep Life Porn
can't get enough
I wonder what studies show...I mean, if it's only Jun, lol...if there are other examples of geniuses working so little...I don't know, I suspect there are cases of them working quite a few hours...but maybe I'm wrong...
how do you take something interesting and make it time consuming and boring? quite the skill.
5:05 "a task that he doesn't particularly want to do like scheduling those appointments". So this guy doesn't want to make doctors' appointments for his sons? WTF
His name is June.
Huh...
Prof., I am worried you may hurt or have pain in your neck as your fixed mic is making you move your head in a constricted way.
Greatest problem is poverty and I have found a way to solve it.
?
Now im hot they all on me
-mike Jones
What podcast mic is that?
ت💯
After tenure it's easy 🤣
He obviously only needs to work 3 hours a day. It's about get stuff done every day - this guy is a math genius - born not made.
this guy can hardly READ a paper in front of his eyes. AMAZING how much trust can i have for wasting my time watching this self help yt video? his profile is quite long isn't it? giving how much effort you take to read a text YOU WERE SO TIRED AFTER READING THE PROFILE YOU TOOK SLEEP FOR HALF A DAY AFTER