Runaway Jaguar I Pace My Thoughts on Accelerating without warning, brake failure & electrical faults
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- Опубліковано 8 бер 2024
- Runaway Jaguar I Pace My Thoughts on Accelerating without warning, brake failure & electrical faults
Jaguar I-Pace electric vehicle
Craig Phillips: TV star shaken after Jaguar brakes fail during drive
In 2019, some Jaguar I-Pace vehicles were recalled in North America because of a fault with the system
Drivers of Jaguar I-Pace vehicles have revealed their concerns over the electric vehicles appearing to accelerate without warning and suffer brake failures.
Jaguar I-Pace driver tells of moment the EV went rogue on the M62
Jaguar was already due to end production of the I-Pace, which was its first electric car, next year.
Two things happened: 1. The driver was making it all up, or 2. The car had a malfunction. The Polestar will kill the power if you press the brake at the same time as the accelerator. I would think the Jag would do the same thing.
There may be a few speeders trying to get off with it after seeing this in the news...You see officer it wasn't me it was my car.
Exactly this has happened in the past
Can't wait for the car data to be downloaded.
There have historically been issues with brakes failing on cars for literally decades. It can happen. It does happen.
There may be a problem but the problem is not because it is an electric car but just a failure in the braking system. Parts fail in all cars.
I drove an I-Pace for over 3 years and the breaks never gave me any cause for concern. I felt they could have been more powerful for such a powerful car but zero safety concerns.
I also think there is something not right with this story. There appears to be little damage to the car after it was allegedly physically stoped. The I-Pace has massive torque and is well over 2,000Kg so would take some stopping. I would have expected to see serious damage to the I-Pace and catastrophic damage to the police vehicle.
That is the one thing I was thinking, they seemed to have stopped a heavy car with no brakes and supposedly accelerating and the damage is minimal.
@@grouchthatbarx They waited till the battery went flat and it had no more range. The driver said as much. There wouldn't be much torque.
The break servo would not make the car accelerate rapidly
I'm sure I didn't imply that it did in the video. I think the main point I was trying to make is brakes should still work when an electrical failure occurs.
@@grouchthatbarx- there’s a video on UA-cam called ‘What happens if you switch of an EV off while driving’ by The Car Expert, the brakes still work.
Until there has been a proper investigation then it’s difficult to know what went wrong, it could be the car, it could be the driver - but it’s just speculation at the moment.
@@kevinslegg1576 I just wondering why more than one person has said they have experienced zero braking.
@@grouchthatbarxthey would not bring the vehicles to a complete stop and would over heat with a minute or so if the car was on ful power with the servo working
@@gingernutpreacher the car couldn't of been on full power though as the police car would of had hell of a shove, wouldn't it?
Regardless of the model of the car, all braking systems have direct mechanical functionality between the brake pedal and the master cylinder. The assistance is secondary whether that be electrical or in the form of a vacuum pump & servo. When the pedal is pressed, the regen is activated first and as the driver increases the pressure on the pedal, the hydraulic brakes are then engaged via the pushrod in the master cylinder. If the driver was pushing hard on the pedal then the hydraulic braking system would have been activated. It may not have had any servo assistance but it would have slowed the car down. I suspect the 12v battery was on it's way out and didn't have enough juice to power the servo assist leaving the pedal hard. That would explain the dashboard warnings. There's a very good reason why most of us who have owned an EV for years replace our 12v batteries every 3 years. I've been there before with my old Zoe when the 12v battery chucked it. The dashboard was lit up like a christmas tree warning me about all sorts including a brake malfunction. A new 12v battery (as recommended every 3 years in the service schedule) cured the problem instantly. In short, don't ignore the service schedule.
The thing is I have driven or should I say been towed quite a few times in a car where there is no servo assist and although braking isn't as good it is still there with some effort. His encounter states that he was pushing the brake
? I suspect a 12v issue like.
@@grouchthatbarx I saw a similar incident up here in Glasgow with an MG ZS EV where the driver claimed he couldn't stop the car (It was reported in the Daily Record newspaper). It was literally a mile from my house. He had ran a red light prior to that happening. The general consensus was that he made it up in order to get away with running the lights. For a car that wouldn't stop on a road with several roundabouts, main junctions and sharp bends, there was surprisingly no damage to the car whatsoever when he "managed" to stop it with a bunch of police cars surrounding him. I'm not saying it's foul play by the driver but it is a very good excuse to get yourself out of penalty points and a fine when you've been driving like a t**t. A quick scan of the CANBUS will reveal any error codes (if there were any).
I’m still of the opinion the the I-pace was caused by a floor mat getting stuck over the accelerator so the more he pressed the brake it pushed the accelerator down
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In the early days of the Nissan LEAF there were several complaints that the brakes did not work. It always came back to the simple fact that with a fully charged battery there was no engine braking, thus the brakes were operated 'normally', ie . wihtout servo or regen assistance. .
The main point is that behind the regen system , aa required by LAW the brakes have to comply with UK Regs. Quite simply , the brakes HAVE to operate even with full electric failure.
A problem is that most drivers now have never driven without power assist on their brakes, Quite simply the driver of the Jag was almost certainly spouting rubbish and panicked.
A lot of people are suspicious of his recollection of events. There have been others though who have said something similar about the I pace.
Ok after listening to you i have two comments.
Firstly Audi almost went out of business in the late 80's due to drivers claims of unintended acceleration in the Audi 5000 model of cars. The findings concluded that drivers had unintentionally pressed the accelerator when shifting from park to drive, the news media made the situation worse. Ultimately all cars eventually included the requirement of holding the brake whem shifting out of park.
My second comment is it seems to me Jaguar was trying to incorporate a more traditional way of braking by not allowing the car to slow down when the driver lifts off the accelerator. Instead they used the solution you described here which sounds fine to me.
However you mentioned the brake pedal pushes back against the drivers foot during certain situations. Again going back to traditional vehicle systems we all know Antilock braking systems will pulse the brake pedal back to the driver to indicate a lost of surface traction and the ABS is now trying to regain traction by allowing the wheel to rotate instead of remaining locked in a skid or sliding maneuver.
Just my thoughts. I have a Telsa Model 3 Long Range but haven't paid attention to how the brake pedal reacts when traction is lost but I will go out today and try on a clear road that runs along a beach not too far from my house.
When traction is lost the anti braking is engaged, but these drivers don't mention lost traction at all. The statements they have given is no braking at all even while pushing on the brake pedal as hard as they can.
@@grouchthatbarx exactly. The ABS system is inline with the braking system. You mentioned the brake pedal "pushing back" at the driver. I teach competitive driving I also teach young drivers as an instructor for the Tire Rack Teen Street Survival program.
One of the first things we teach young drivers is how ABS works and how to tell if it has become active which is when it pushes up against the drivers foot.
I fully agree with you in your analysis of a potentially catastrophic failure in how the system is programmed or a wheel sensor reading failure.
@@grouchthatbarx as an example look at the Boeing 737 Max failures due to the reliance of a single sensor for the aircraft attitude/position sensor. That was the cause of two deadly crashes. It's these systems and sensors that are inline between the driver and a specific part of a car or aircraft that need to be reviewed in detail.
I have an I-pace and have driven it for more than 3 years and he's talking rubbish. The braking system is hydraulic, even without a servo you have brakes. There is no connection between the brake and the accelerator, if you push the brake you brake you don't accelerate. Does he wear co-co the clown shoes and he's hit the accelerator instead of the brake. I've looked at the fotos of the police stop and there doesn't appear to be any damage to the i-pace or the police vehicle. If I come up close to an obstical (another car for example) the i-pace automatically brakes and will come to a complete stop if I close on another vehicle. I assume the i-pace braked for itself in this situation, hence no damage. I suspect driver training required.
There doesn't appear to be any damage which is strange considering he also said the car was also accelerating.
@grouchthatbarx Be careful with questioning stuff you are being told. You will be labelled a conspiracy theorist if your not careful 😂
@@davebaker8362 Haha 👍👍
If you actually listen the the owner the computer system too it upon itself to eccelerate, even pushing the brake didn't work and pushing the neutral button. Definitely wasn't down to the driver, you guys saying he needs training are bang out of order. EV's are a pile of shit & dangerous. The police won't even let Jaguar have the car until they can confirm it's safe for anyone to get in it. Jaguar want to take the computer system out to see what went wrong
@@simonlester5389 it happens to one car and now all EVs are dangerous and shit... Put your handbag down... Go and look at recalls on ICE cars and unexpected acceleration and I bet you have no problems with that.
I have had runaway accleration on a DIY ebike before. It can happen when water gets into the throttle MOSFET. But the controller cuts power if the brake sensor sees a brake pull.
I had a ebike fly up in the air because I didn't install the brake cut offs and accidently turned the throttle.
same ! brake cut off ftw
i tell all borrowers of my bikes to switch off before dismounting for this !, its so easy to clench the throttle when pushing the bike .@@grouchthatbarx
@@grouchthatbarx yes you only do that once!
Yeah, I’m not buying this at all. There has to be a good reason why the car didn’t stop - driver error, floor mat stuck under the pedal - something.
A lot of people are suspicious of his recollection of events.
So, you don’t know.
This whole video is about you don’t know. It happened twice to the same car.
Sorry Grouch, but have you seen the video of Geoff buys Cars interview of the owner?
What do you mean I don't know?
Does the owner know why it happened?
@@grouchthatbarx As I listened to you it was obvious that you did not know much about car braking systems and were simply speculating. Whether the Jag driver knows the cause is irrelevant.
The driver of the iPace is clearly a liar as his story changes every time he tells it. It will be interesting to see if he is prosecuted by the Police for speeding. After the first 'event' Jaguar checked the car and confirmed no issues. It will be interesting to see what happens next. It is so enjoyable to listen to the EV haters - they have given up on most of their fairy stories and now trying the 'toxic fumes from the tyres and brakes' as EVs are heavier than ICE but they are not in all cases so that is another whataboutism too.
@@derekr1113fairy stories? Guess the verdict that a VW EV sunk the ship back in 2022 with more than trillion dollars in damages, I bet you think that is bs also. Which is why I question which ones of us is the one believing in fairys....
There's a headline story suggesting the I pace driver has been arrested for something related to the event.
Looking forward to hearing more..I suspect legally Jag and the police have to shut up while we are free to speculate.
I have 2 EV's a Fiat 500E and a Jaguar I-Pace and on both cars, the regen setting is always on and the brake paddle is rarely pressed, with the only noticeable difference being on the I-Pace is more effective at higher speeds than say at an about town slower speeds, for example, in the I-Pace exiting a duel carriageway or motorway at the NSL onto a slip road the regen is very strong (and is set to high) where as the Fiat 500E feels the same both relevant but the I-Pace makes clever use of its weight/speed/inertia ratio.
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Can you imagine if we invented a vehicle that could easily cover 6 to 800 miles when fully fuelled, had fuelling stations pretty much everywhere, and could be refuelled in seconds? It would sell like hot cakes!
Imagine inventing something that had hundreds of moving pieces just to rotate a rod, and then someone said look you can do the same with a couple of moving pieces...
@@grouchthatbarx and refuel it at home for an 8th of the cost of fuelling the vehicle that required fuelling stations......
@@grouchthatbarx until it goes bang.
@@Brian-om2hh Good luck with that. Here in the UK the price of electricity keeps rocketing. Yes you can get on a cheaper tariff but how long do you think that will last? Remember when we were all pushed to buy diesel because it was cheaper? Aaannnnd look what happened to the prices as soon as everyone bought one!!! I know you disagree with me on all counts but please remember this conversation......EV's aren't even close to being the future. They will fail miserably when our wonderful governments find a better way to tax us. And even though you won't watch this video I'll leave it here anyway. ua-cam.com/video/AT-IJl-cyK8/v-deo.html
It has been tried in the past, it took nearly 30 years to become popular, and was only affordable by the well off. The distribution system for fuel took many years to set up and was mostly only available during daytime working areas. Then it was found that the vehicles emitted toxic gases that kill people and in bulk can change the balance of the earths atmosphere. Whats not to like?
Its obvious - He was caught speeding so did what has been done many times before - said the car has gone rogue thus not incurring any points or a fine. Easy said when the car has a history of being shite.
Haha he could have ....
BBC reporting on someone elses I-Pace breaks not working. They did use the term hydraulics at first, but then added a random paragraph on regenerative braking, as though thwt had anything to do with basic generic brakes failing!
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Did I hear that right? Jaguar are stopping making cars in June! Well the roads will be a safer place! Anyone who buys a Jaguar EV after this is an idiot!
Yes no more ICE vehicles from Jaguar...There's loads of makes of cars ICE that have had unexpected acceleration , so add them to your list of cars not to buy as well.
An emergency stop button is a great idea!
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Whatever happened in this case, that is indeed a good idea. Something that cuts the power and basically puts the car in neutral, maybe with some gradual force applied to allow the car to safely come to a stop even if on a slope.
No, its a bad idea. Just make the accelerator and brake functions reliable. E-stop buttons are to stop machines that are functioning correctly but something has happened that makes you want to suddenly stop the machine, like if someone is too close to it. All machines must safely stop if they malfunction. It's the Law.
Brakes failed?
Was the throttle stuck as well?
Brain failure I think, just my opinion.
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On pretty much all EV's the brake pedal will operate the regenerating brake first then mix in the friction brake if higher demanded. The friction brake is also applied by the emergency brake anti collision system as part of the driver aids safety system, as required for NCAP star rating. Diesel cars also have the separate brake pressure generating servo.
The only time my Leaf or ZS brakes felt funny was when braking ABS was triggered, then E brake is disconnected leaving only friction, and you have to press harder.
That's why I'm questioning why the Jaguar has this specific fault. A 12 volt battery failure or catastrophic electrical failure should still leave the car with limited braking. The I pace seems to lose braking completely.
@@grouchthatbarx 9 times out of 10 it's user error. Improper pedal push, incorrect cruise control use mats fouling pedals...
12v batteries tend to fail by charge degradation not when the car is topping them up, and as the 12/14V charger is running there is no loss of control voltage. There are low 12V gauges/warnings on cars. Seems far-fetched to me. as DaveVantage says there is a control disconnect of the traction system power delivery when brakes are applied.
Maybe not all, our Mini SE the regen is all controlled by the throttle, fully off the throttle you get full regen (all the way to a stop) and the brake pedal only works the hydraulic brakes. The regen is very good and quite progressive, I suspect BMWs will be the same.
Check out Geoffs interview with Nathan.. listen carefully and especially note his answer to the question.. 'Was any part of this experience fun?'.
What's your point?
@@grouchthatbarx I have my doubts about this person, he already didn't like the car and by extension EVs, he was disappointed that the first time it happened there wasn't more publicity, he enjoyed the idea that the incident was a spectacle, he enjoyed being in a 'police chase', like being on a video game etc etc..
@@dereknicol5284 there is quite a lot of people doubting his story. I wonder if Jaguar can read the ECU and tell what's being pressed and not pressed at specific times like tesla can
I believe Teslas send information back to a central data centre, I dont think Jaguar have anything like that but there may be info stored in the car.
@@dereknicol5284 👍👍
I once got new floor mats catght on the accelerator pedal on a Leaf. Acceleration wouldn't switch off. But the brake pedal would still cut the power.
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In our VW ID.3 if you gently press the brake pedal the car goes into regen mode and it's quite high regen. It also illuminates the brake lights. Press the pedal further and the actual brakes kick in.
There must be a better solution than blowing the pyrotechnic fuse. That renders the car undriveable which it otherwise might not actually be.
Also, giving ordinary people who are prone to stupidity the ability to disable a vehicle whilst doing above the speed limit on the motorway doesn't feel safe to me.
People prone to stupidity are quite capable of doing stupid things even without a way to disable a vehicle 😁
For this to happen there would have to be a problem with both pedal sensors simultaneously (unlikely). Or the controller? Its a strange one?
A 12v battery issue could possibly affect all systems.
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I would have thought braking systems are similar on all cars. Still doesn't explain how he accelerated so much to start with. Obviously EV's do try and recoup energy so i would have guessed it would slow down rather than speed up. It is either a driver problem (made up) or a specific super strange vehicle fault.
I'm assuming it will be logged somewhere on the cars systems? Unless the failure was catastrophic and nothing was logged.
If it was a throttle issue (electrical \ computer in this case rather than mechanical) then the regen would not kick in, as it would interpret this as the driver wanting to accelerate. Time will tell I guess, whatever it is.
Drive by wire steering!!! They can't even get the brakes right! Electric system fails at 70MPH! Good luck! They are doing everything they can to get cars off the road!
Toyota has has developed it, add them to your not to buy list
There's meant to be redundancies on these systems, my old diesel van would stop accelerating intermittently when the brake switch started to fail. Sounds to me like an oversight on this particular car and to be fair the ipace has been plagued with issues.
talking of diesel vans..I had a terrible experience once with an old diesel transit banana engine. I went to change the air filter and dropped one of the small bolts down the carb inlet and it went into the head..... I did try a bendy magnet to no avail and I had to take the whole head off....
@@grouchthatbarx one less thing to worry about with electric 🤣
the tesla's taking off by them selves is an issue and tesla co is lying when they say the program says the accelerator was being pressed, there is even multiple roadside cameras showing one of those so-called "driver was pressing the accelerator" incidents but all the cameras show that the tesla's brake lights are on proving the brakes are being applied, which was never mentioned by tesla co.
I used to trust tesla but not since there has been multiple acceleration issues with the cars and they include fatalities and the company always uses the same excuse that it was driver error even when there is video footage proving otherwise .
I need proof. Show me the video footage of brake lights on when accelerating
@@grouchthatbarx I am shadow banned from putting in links so you will have to look yourself
I think he was in a police chase and they boxed him in to stop him.
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He's been interviewed on another channel & said jag had the car back for 3 days and gave it back saying 'no faults found '...😅😂😂
What channel was that?
@@grouchthatbarx ua-cam.com/video/6SVxmqS5_60/v-deo.htmlsi=nwOCXgt-xD8ouFyK
There you go pal,Geoff buys cars 🚗
I think all EVs should have a kill switch, in the glovebox or somewhere a little hidden. It should be a complete connection breaker and a one-time method to be an electronic failsafe like a fire alarm "break glass" where the motor and battery are electrically disconnected from each other. Make it the law.
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It’s called the neutral button…..
If it was a issue I believe there would of be multple ocurencrs couch couch Toyota
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Does the "i" in i-pace stand for "incredible" pace?
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I see the driver of the Jag iPace has been arrested
Just made a video... uploading right now 👍
@@grouchthatbarx- looking forward to it 👍
I recall that some Cruise Control systems caused sudden unintended acceleration, I believe Chrysler was one company and I believe Toyota may have been.Ford had an issue where a switch caused fires. These were ICE’s and people died.
I can’t recall people saying that all ICE’ cars shouldn’t be used because of this. Clearly the Jaguar has an issue that needs to be investigated - but its design seems quite a bit different from the majority of cars.
Yes runaway cars have happened before , but for some reason when it's ICE cars people find it less alarming.
We have a Toyota PHEV and initially we misunderstood how the cruise control worked. I pushed the cruise control lever up until the car reached the desired speed. But the car carried on accelerating. Applying the brakes fixed the issue immediately and I later realised that the Toyota cruise control sets a target speed and then increments that by 5kph every half second or so while the lever is held up. Obviously I'd effectively set a target way above what I intended but I only made that mistake once.
If this ever happened to me i would hit the one pedal drive feature and take both feet off.
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See Geoff buys cars interview with Nathan. And then see if you still concur with the driver error remarks that everyone is making here.
People have heard the interview and still aren't convinced.... I'm not saying he's lying but I also can't put 100 percent trust in someone I don't know... Do you ?
@@grouchthatbarx no. But even someone with Münchausen syndrome might like the attention but is unlikely to put them selves into mortal danger twice, just for the attention. And would you choose a wet windy night to do it? I’d say that yes I do believe him, the police believe him and have impounded the car as evidence. And I’m sure more details will confirm or change the story so far.
@@grouchthatbarx I think my overall trust in his story would have been greater if he hadn't given his first major interview to such a biased channel, widely known by those with a brain for its misinformation and presentation of speculation as fact. For balance, I would be equally suspicious if he'd gone to Fully Charged with his story.
It might have been hacked
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Ramming police cars and getting away with it, is definitely a plus point to buying an EV 🤷♂️ possibly the only one ☺️
Come on you know there's more plus points for many people,
It may well be, if you completely disregard the vast amounts of cash you can save, by no longer having to drive to petrol stations. I've saved around £6k in 3 years. My last service was £68, so that costs less too. Plus I get some "free" fuel from my solar panels. Then there's the instant 100% torque from standstill, the smooth quiet ride, no penalties to pay in emissions charging zones, some free charging still available at some locations....not that I trouble myself too much about free charging, when a full charge at home works out at £6 to £7 per week, and does me for 230 miles or so....But then you don't own an EV, so you may not have been aware of these things...
@@Brian-om2hh yoo Brian🙌 Having had a few EV’s i can completely agree with you, there is money to be saved, and even made in some instances.
I was being a bit sarcastic 🫣
If they fit your driving habits and lifestyle then god speed 🫡☺️
@@grouchthatbarx they are well fast too🙌☺️✌️
The car wasn't stopped by the police! It stopped when the battery was flat! Thankfully no one was hurt! Luckily the driver, Nathan is young and fit! Otherwise a heart attack could easily have happened! Think about that! What if your family had been involved! All because some stupid bunch of idiots at Jaguar don't know how to make a fool proof braking system! Regen should only work when backing of the throttle! Nothing to do with the brake pedal.
A lot of EV's have regen in the brake pedal, only at the very beginning of brake pedal travel...The rest is normal hydraulic. Why are you adding a heart attack to it??????
Nobody can spell ''brakes''. Jesus H Christ.
I can 😁
Give an example of an ICE car accelerating out of control.
The 2009-11 Toyota vehicle recalls involved three separate but related recalls of automobiles by the Japanese manufacturer Toyota Motor Corporation, which occurred at the end of 2009 and the start of 2010. Toyota initiated the recalls, the first two with the assistance of the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), after reports that several vehicles experienced unintended 😂
Toyota to Pay $1.2B for Hiding Deadly ‘Unintended Acceleration’ 👍
U.S. Department Of Transportation Releases Results From NHTSA-NASA Study Of Unintended Acceleration In Toyota Vehicles
Thursday, August 1, 2019 ... Blinking eck Toyota
Beware: Toyota Sudden Acceleration Crashes Are Still An Ongoing Issue
Posted onSeptember 25, 2020Authortrey@mattoxlawpc.com
From a 2014 post...
Does BMW have an unintended acceleration issue? Is it possible that BMWs can be having issues like Audi and Toyota had? Look at these 10+ examples of cases where recent model BMWs have accelerated unintentionally on owners, sometimes with disastrous consequence. In the past Audi had problems with it's 5000 model experiencing unintended acceleration.
Have fun with superstition on this one.🤦♂️
Nothing wrong with healthy bit of suspicion.
Accelerating without warning? loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
Just put the clutch down. Oh wait. loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
Do you feel any guilt over the little black kids beaten and abused to dig the cobalt to make the massive battery?
A lot of batteries are now made cobalt free for electric cars. So my question to you is do you feel guilty about the Cobalt use for desulphurisation of fuel?
Er, there is no clutch pedal in an EV...lol Oh, and just so you know, a growing number of electric cars are now being manufactured with cobalt *free* batteries....(try researching before you post). The cobalt "problem" is now yours, as the oil industry are the largest users of mined cobalt, and have been for generations. So, you'll be getting rid of that ICE car now, will you? Do you feel any guilt over the thousands of square miles of sea that are usually polluted with crude oil, each time there is an oil tanker spill, like the spillage in the Gulf of Mexico a few weeks back, when an oil pipeline fractured? Dig a little deeper, and you'll find most of the kids to which you referred, are actually mining cobalt for the oil industry, to allow you to keep buying fuel for your car....
@@grouchthatbarx Nope
@@Brian-om2hh tl:dr
@@dalegribble9101 So you don't care but expect others to feel guilty 👍👍