When time-restricted feeding can be problematic | The Peter Attia Drive Podcast
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- Опубліковано 14 кві 2022
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The Peter Attia Drive is a weekly, ultra-deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing health, longevity, critical thinking…and a few other things. With over 40 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including fasting, ketosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter is a physician focusing on the applied science of longevity. His practice deals extensively with nutritional interventions, exercise physiology, sleep physiology, emotional and mental health, and pharmacology to increase lifespan (delay the onset of chronic disease), while simultaneously improving healthspan (quality of life).
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3 years ago I was an overweight (overfat) powerlifter around 190 lbs (6 meals a day). I worked into TRF and settled on a 4-6 hour feeding window, every single day. I now weigh 165, Squat and Deadlift more than 2xbodyweight, and bench press 2xbw. I'm 40 years old, leaner than when I was 20, and continue to slowly add muscle on a 4-6 hour feeding window. I do, however, consume 200-300 grams of protein inside that 4-6 hour window. Lifting is 3xweekly, cardio is 2 miles, 4xweekly. For me, I am *more muscular and leaner* with TRF than a conventional eating window. I'm a professor, and the cognitive benefits of fasting are significant. I will never go back to a 'normal' eating window.
I concur. I have had similar gains from 4-6 hour window. Engineer, tennis and skiing. 235 down to 185. I will never go back
I wanted to try this at some point as well, but I can't imagine getting in 200 grams of protein in 6 hours, let alone more than that. I struggle to get that much in an entire day and I start each morning with a protein shake. In fairness though, I have a sedentary job and not able to exercise as much as I'd like, so my overall caloric need is pretty low. If I could find more time for cardio then I'd be allowed more calories and could get in more protein without being in a huge surplus. Glad it worked for you though.
@@BatDad-qu4fo The protein thing has been blown out of proportion. Doing limited muscle work one can easily glide on 1.2g per kg of bodyweight and be healthy. For very heavy work (that is daily weight training or otherwise demanding physical work) it is better to go near 2 g per kg. I have trained for years on about 1 to 1.5 g per kg and have been steadily putting on muscle. Unless the only goal is bodybuilding I wouldn't sweat about it.
These are 5 minute commercials to sell a product. This is not information its Infotainment.
@@BatDad-qu4fo Eat meat. You’ll hit your targets.
With all due respect, I think Dr Attia is wrong. For instance, when I don't eat for long enough my heart rate goes down. This doesn't happen when I just eat less. And this resting heart rate diminution is something I value a lot. There are other benefits to not eating for a long time, like improve gut function, improved skin, improved sleep, joints function, etc. There is something very specific to not eating that is not provided by just eating less. As for the fat/lean mass thing, I've heard that too. That's why I started weight lifting (on top of my martial arts training) when I started dinner-OMAD years ago. My aim is to detect any loss of strength, and of course, train to gain strength/power or at least maintain it. Guess what, I've CONTINUOUSLY gained strength. I have a six pack all year round. I don't have access to a dexa scan but I am hoping that my 6 pack and muscle definition at 45 years of age is enough of a testament of my lean-ness. With those results, I don't plan to stop following this fasted training + dinner-OMAD way of life that is serving me so well, even though I trained all my life. Of course this is my N=1 experiment. So take it with a grain of salt. Great content btw.
Well said. I agree.
I only eat OMAD before bed. I sleep like a baby & don't even start to feel hungry until late afternoon. I do drink coffee/tea & lots of water in between. I feel like I have more energy when I don't eat during the day, than when I do. My takeaway is not that I have a developed a superior feeding regimen. It's that the human body is incredibly adaptive & will find ways of dealing with whatever it is we put it through.
@@chiefenumclaw7960 Indeed. I feel exactly the same. Sleep like a rock, unless I am stressed, of course. And I am not hungry at all during the day (generally). I regret not having started this lifestyle in my teenage. I'd have been a freak.
I think Peter's point is that TRF doesn't magically burn off calories that wouldn't normally have been burned. Whatever your caloric intake now, if you increase it by 500/day, you will probaby gain weight. However it's a lot harder to increase calories on a narrower window.
@@ebbyc1817 Right. Fair point. I think I got that. My point however is that weight loss is not why I care about TRF. So I really don't care about the calories side of things. Even if TRF was suppposed to make me gain weight, Ild still do it. Because of the health benefits.
I can only speak for myself - 4 years of OMAD and I am leaner and stronger than I have ever been. Its been the single greatest health intervention of my life so far. 42 years old.
that's awesome man! May I ask what do you eat on that one meal?
Same. 58 here.
@@toti1239 For sure. Generally speaking Beef, lamb, or chicken for protein. White rice, sweet potato or pasta for carb, and broccoli, water cress, carrots, capsicum, spinach etc for vegetables. I stick to that about 6 days a week and usually treat myself to some junk on a Saturday
@@chipoko1838 Thanks man! Good luck 👍
Why I tried morning centered trf (eating window 5am-1pm)
*Reflux improves (no night eating)
*Sleep improves
*Food intake corresponds with activity
*reduces alcohol consumption
*promotes conscientious eating
*prevents much of the "eating for entertainment" that occurs at night.
Excellent points, thank you.
And congrats on awesome behaviours x
I see you take advantage of the increased insulin sensitivity when starting your circadian rhythm.
Wow, this gives me lots to think about.
I just recently start IF 18/6 and I feel 10x better, I save more money on snacks and I have tons of energy`. I literally saved thousands of dollars from not buying junk food.
True ... a secret bonus to only eating once or twice a day ... is the amount of money one saves - AND the amount of precious TIME that is saved every single day that is normally devoted to fixing or buying food and eating it - is amazing.
I have been eating only once a day - my entire adult life, long before the study on IF came out. When I was in college, I quickly realized I would rather sleep in an extra 20-30 minutes and go directly to class ... then spending that time acquiring food, and eating it. I quickly realized that I naturally had absolutely NO DESIRE to eat until late afternoon. Throughout the years when people would ask if I wanted to eat during the day - and I simply responded that I never ate during the day simply because I felt better when I didn't eat until evening. These people would then look at me like I was some 'alien being' because until Intermittent Fasting emerged - not eating was viewed as a freakish unhealthy choice .
Years ago, I reviewed the book "The Zone" that stated the source of most serious illnesses - was due to repeated blood sugar and insulin swings - which validated why I felt more consistently energetic when I did not eat.
People that I worked with in recent years, (fyi - I was their boss) - who were only in their 20's, were constantly eating - and then whining about how tired and rundown they felt. I never needed those mid day energy drinks to remain alert like others did. Even the coffee I drank, was decaff.
During this time I was juggling about a dozen major crises and only getting 3 hrs sleep a night for months - but came to work everyday with a smile on my face and a positive attitude - and worked 10 hours days without a single break or crumb of food ... then went home, prepped a meal for my sons and myself, did some chores ... and went into my home office and worked for hours following up with my online customers ... slept for 3 hrs, then got my sons up and ready for school ... and arrived to open the doors to my business 15 minutes before starting time.
What was odd was my energy level and productivity compared to the 20s somethings - was stunning, despite my being 30 years older than they were - and juggling an extraordinary level of stress these "kids" who ate and snacked constantly .... couldn't even imagine.
N=1: I did 22:2 for approx. 3 months (save 3-4 days) from OCT 2020 to JAN 2021 and lost approx. 25 lbs and ~3-4 lbs was lean mass according to podpod results (I was conducting moderate resistance training 3 times per week). Calories varied but were within the range of 1,600-1,800 per day (I'm 6'3" and turned 38 in DEC of that year)
Regarding whether TRF has benefits beyond caloric restriction, you said "I think the answer today is no." The "today" implies that we have new information on this? But then your arguments are intuitive and anecdotal. Do we have any studies that investigate TRF while controlling for mere CR?
Excellent point
@@john85132 I hate to say it, but I'm becoming more and more skeptical of anything that Sinclair says. Especially after the whole Resveratrol/Twitter debacle. He also has a history of making somewhat hasty claims, based on minimal data from his lab, almost as if he thinks a single study emerging from his lab invalidates any and all other contrary findings in the literature, even if other labs fail to reproduce the results. And I have a growing suspicion that his research is becoming as much about the business opportunities as it is about the science. Doesn't bode well for his credibility.
Knowledge is power, love Dr Peter’s work, 1st time don’t really agree, thanks for sharing
Knowledge is potential. Implementation is power.
Same.
This overlooks all the benefits I get from TRF that are not about fat loss. Improved mood, cognitive function, energy. The fact that I'm no longer captive to food at all.
i tried time restricted feeding and ended up losing too much weight. i work in shifts and couldn't manage to get enough calories in. it wasn't pleasent for my psyche either. always thought about the time window and food. and i felt bad if i ate an hour too late, i skipped meals and felt weak. 18/6 was too strict for me. 12/12 works way better for me. and yes, i lost muscles and people asked me all the time: are you well? you lost weight...not looking good...
So stop doing it. Problem solved.
@@jsi4064 The commenter said they already have stopped doing it.
u prob arent eating enough kcals in ur feeding window. Insufficient protein doesnt help either for hunger painss
Always on the spott Peter, thanks
I just can speak for myself here but, after 3 years in ketonic diet, OMAD during weekdays and 72 hrs of fasting a week, average, plus HIIT 5 days a week with some lightweight, I never been with so much energy, better markers y muscle gain than before. I must side with DC Fung on this issue, nevertheless Peter A is a must follow, knowledgeable person
Who's DC Fung? Do you mean Jason Fung MD?
@@iroulis Yes
If calories are equated, why would you assume someone on TRF is eating less protein than someone who is not on TRF? That seems like a logical leap without basis. I've been on TRF (somewhere in the range of 16/8 to 18/6) for years because it is easy and fits my life. I get somewhere between 1g and 1.5g of protein per pound each day on TRF - no issue whatsoever.
During the years I've been on TRF, I've done a mix of running, cycling, strength training. When I have put my predominant focus on strength training, I achieved significant strength gains and put on a good deal of net muscle mass (while on TRF). When I have focused more on endurance training (marathon prep) and de-emphasized strength training, I lost some muscle mass but gained overall cardiovascular fitness (again while on TRF).
TRF with calories, macros, meal quality, and exercise equated would seem no worse than eating throughout the day. If it helps someone keep calories in check, it's a net positive. I can agree that the TRF benefits beyond keeping calories in check are often overstated and not borne out in the studies . . . but it would seem to be similar folly to overstate the detriments of TRF as near certain muscle loss. I haven't seen any studies bearing that out either.
Thanks for this info
These clips are great!
I strive to start my feeding window as early in my day as possible to take advantage of the increased insulin sensitivity at the end of the day before initiated fast. As a result, I also look to stop eating by 3pm. I also insure sufficient protein intake to address the needs of lean muscle maintenance.
Thank you!
Thanks for this Dr. Pete. I have been doing TRF for about 9 years. In that time I lost about 20 lb. But I also had a significant change in lifestyle in terms of work schedule and getting in more daily movement aside from my three to four days of strength training. As a 56-year-old male I understand the importance of keeping body fat to a minimum but not at the expense of losing lean muscle mass. I thought all this time that doing IF was optimal. Being highly active I often felt like I wasn't getting enough calories in. With would result in a couple of cheat days a week. Needed to hear this from you.
I have been doing 18/6 and eating 1.5 meals a day. Around 6:00 pm is my half meal dinner, consisting with seaweed/ bean miso soup and a boil egg. Full meal is around 1:00 pm, plant based with small amount of fish. My weight went from 131 to 117 in 5 months. I walk 4 miles a day. I sleep like a baby at night. And I am 60.
Anecdotally: I'm in that 'normal body weight' range and mostly started time restricted eating as an experiment. Initially I had about an 8 hour eating window, and a fair amount of body fat to lose. I disproportionately lost body fat relative to lean mass in the first 6 months and then leveled out. When I started eating in a 4 hour window every day, I lost both fat and lean muscle mass in seemingly equal amounts. I've never lost more lean mass than fat, though this could be because I work out regularly and also eat a fairly low-carb diet.
I did have what appeared to be increased insulin resistance, primarily because my fasting glucose was elevated for most of the morning when I fasted. I wore a CGM to find that my average glucose level overall was still fairly low (below the pre-diabetes range)...ironically my post-prandial glucose levels were typically BELOW my fasting glucose...but my fasting glucose lab and my A1C put me in the pre-diabetic range. I've stopped fasting to see what my bloodwork looks like and am wearing a CGM again, so I'm looking forward to seeing the outcome of that.
Ask for a Fasting Insulin blood test.
Thank you Dr Attia. When I did time restricted feeding I lost muscle and gained fat. Even though the scales went down a little bit I could see the additional fat on my body. But everybody keeps going on about how great time restricted feeding is.
Time restricted feeding cured my acid reflux problem.
I really wish you would have clarified whether this also applies to longer fasting. Are you still doing 3 day or week long fasts?
What about improving mitochondrial function and insulin sensitivity (for example) through an isocaloric TRF diet? I feel like there's potentially still some "longevity" value to it even without a negative energy balance.
Improving mitochondrial function is only achieved through mitophagy, which is one of the benefits derived from autophagy. Autophagy only begins when the three nutrient sensors (insulin, mTOR and AMPK) are switched when full ketosis is achieved. Average is 3 days. That can be reduced by having your last meal low-carb and reducing your glycogen stores through exercise.
@@rebelinthehighcastle You don’t seem to have a robust understanding of the biology. The “only way” to improve mitochondrial function is a total fallacy - there are dozens of ways.
@@TheEaglesGuru Can you give us the best 5 ways to improve mitochondrial function?
@@rebelinthehighcastle actually no one knows how long it takes for autophagy to take place in humans. Please research your facts before posting it.
Maybe, but that should be compared against maintenance calories, same macronutrients, and varied non-feeding times (e.g. 16 vs 24 vs 48 vs 72) over a long period. I am not aware of any studies that look at this. When you compare a hypocaloric 16:8 IF diet with a typical hypocaloric diet, the benefits come primarily if not completely from the caloric restriction. The issue with longevity factors that may be improved by fasting is that there are other things that will be impacted negatively. For example muscle mass and strength which are extremely important at old age. Long periods of fasting will cause muscle loss to a degree and lifting weights during long periods of fasting increases the risk of injury as well as limits progression (which is required for muscle and/or strength).
Overall, it's not a simple topic and I think we need more controlled and longer human studies with multiple variables that are replicated as well.
Peter, I would love to hear Jason Fungs thoughts on this, since you are in disagreement here regarding both muscle loss during fasting as well as favoring calorie restriction over pure fasting periods. Thoughts?
I'd go with Jason over Peter any day. TRF/IF, and Block Fasting, is about CYCLING your hormones to modulate inflammation: Insulin vs CounterRegulatory: Obesity is Inflammation.
Calories are not an issue: Amino Acids are not an issue: You can up/lower them with concentrated forms of both: Cream and Oils for (Fat) Calories, and Whey Isolate AND Collagen Powder for Amino Acids.
I can make an >1200 Cal shake in a 32oz container based on 1 cup of cream (that's 800 Cal already) with 30gr Whey Isolate, 20gr Collagen, 2 Tbsp Oil (Flax, Canola), with 1 Tbsp each of Psyllium, Chia, Ground Flax Seeds, Nutritional Yeast, Potato Starch, Cacao; and finish it in
Peter obviously hasn't understood the science because his advice in this clipbis ridiculous and counterproductive.
With due respect to Peter.. He should basically delete this video because it's absolute bs, bad advice and doing no one any favours except throwing mud in the water for no good reason other than he hasn't made the effort to understand the research
@@iroulis +1 - I don't agree with everything Fung says but he has Peter over a barrel with this one. I honestly don't know what planet Peter thinks he's on. After speaking to intelligent people you'd think he'd have better judgement to understand the science.
Gil Carvalho MD PhD came to the same conclusion that Peter did with TRF. They both looked that the totality of the research.
@@tylerphelps9275 @Tyler Phelps There are countless thousands of "MDs" and PhDs out there that have opinions with at best tenuous bearing on "the totality of the research" although they evidently find it easily enough to fool yourself of the contrary.
If it's even possible for a person to fully grok the "totality" of the research, it's specialists deep in the field like Fung and Longo et al.
What about the benefits you have stated before that comes with IF such as cell repair, increase HIGH levels and increase longevity to name a few? Does just having a caloric deficit on a daily basis reap these same rewards? I have been following you over the past month so a bit confused with this latest talk compared to previous ones especially with the Joe Rogan Podcast. Appreciate any clarification. Thanks.
I haven't had any problems in the last year and a half eating with a window of 20 h, I do athletics 3, 4 times a week, but when I go to train I try to have 2 meals a day and of course my plate always has protein and eggs and vegetables i feel good, i feel spectacular in the fasted state my brain works better, i train fasted i have run with 24 h of fast i always felt energy i always run barefoot thanks to doctor phil maffettone i always train in zone 2 maf fasting, when i finish running training i'm never hungry it's amazing is the ketones in my body, my body got drugged on them
This is the first video I've seen you put out that I don't fully agree with, and it's not because of what I've read, but what I've done. However, my TRF is always accompanied by additional zone minutes and 5 days a week medium weight workouts, so muscle loss isn't an issue for me. I still believe that TRF has so many benefits that if I weren't working out as much and maintaining or growing my muscle mass I'd still be healthier/happier doing TRF. And I agree that I'd like to see you and Jason Fung go at this one in detail.
Something that I learnt when camping was to eat before it gets dark. In the past 16 months, my fat to lean mass ratio want from one to two, to one to one. I have turned that around (gym for a month) and now eat in late morning and late afternoon, unless I don't feel like it. Compared to 16 months ago I now have 8 kilos more fat and 2 kilos more Lean Mass. Lose 4 kilos of fat, and then I should be good again. I am 73 in July.
My brother and I have had the experience of reduced insulin sensitivity. If you have a high calorie requirement, eating 4k calories a day is difficult if you try to jam it into a few meals and I'm convinced eating a large meal at night especially when only eating two large meals a day or compressing into a six hour window or so causes your body to hang on to fat/store more fat. That's my experience. I enjoy fasting until six hours or so from waking up occasionally but every day certainly changes your body's metabolism.
If excess protein consumed is converted into glucose, then isn't it better to consume protein gradually rather than in an anaconda-esque single meal? Will this not lead to better protein utilization and lower insulin response? Especially if one is exercising a great deal or training for competition and therefore in need of a bit more protein?
Regarding how you eat, I suggest never telling anyone what you are doing so you don’t feel like you have to defend yourself.
This is an older post now, but I think the issue is Dr Attia doesn’t make a lot of distinction between 16/8 and shorter eating windows, where more of the drawbacks occur.
I’m 60 years-old and 18/6 every day with the exception of a 24-hour fast once every two weeks. I workout almost every day. I am also serious about cycling - both MTB and road. I used to worry about riding hungry but, it is amazing. No bonking. I feel great at the end of a ride. My mornings are super productive and after my first meal, I don’t feel tired or bloated. (Low carb, no sugar and I don’t drink alcohol…) I’m off of my blood pressure meds and quit the Crestor. All of my bloodwork is perfect. Before I started fasting, I could never get my “numbers” right. I have to respectfully disagree with Dr. Attia. A few of my friends have adopted my program and they have all experienced the same results. I have lost no muscle mass and am stronger than I have ever been.
this is fantastic and encouraging. What protein have you been eating
@@Joe-oq2zn - My main sources of protein are usually three eggs with bacon or steak in the mornings. For dinner, I try to eat meat and like Broccoli, Brussel Sprouts and Lima Beans. I also eat at least one Avocado every day. I really just try to just make sure I am eating whole fresh foods. This has really worked for me and it has been sustainable.
Disagree. Attia is discounting the circadian benefits of time-restricted eating. We have seen differential effects based on the timing of feeding windows. Earlier time-restricted appears more beneficial than later time-restricted eating. If timing had no difference, and this was all about calories, no such differences would exist. This likely comes down to improved sleep from earlier time-restricted eating and all of the downstream benefits.
It’s not ideal for maintaining muscle unless you’re ok with needing to get in way more protein than most people can handle.
@@danc4454 I think that's likely true for very small feeding windows (e.g. one meal a day), but I suspect that there is little potential detriment for most people eating within a 6-8 hour window. I certainly haven't experienced any issues maintaining muscle nor have I seen any compelling evidence that indicates that muscle loss occurs in such a window.
Some information on REDS in regards to fueling, training, rest etc would be helpful and interesting.🏃♂️🤘😎
Andrew Huberman gave a succinct protocol for time-restricted feeding. After waking wait 1 to 2 hours before eating anything, noting there are some additional benefits to waiting longer i.e eating a late breakfast or only eating at lunchtime. Stop eating 2 to 3 hours before going to bed. Try to eat around the same time every day, changing meal times has an effect on the circadian system. Contrary to popular belief the goal is hormone regulation and not autophagy, which requires long periods of fasting.
I have to be very careful with time restricted eating protocols. Unfortunately I contracted hepatitis A when I was a child, which left me with a condition similar to Gilbert’s Syndrome - meaning my liver can’t process billirubin correctly.
I find after a short time of time restricted eating my bilirubin levels increase significantly, and if I exercise to too much of an extreme, this is also a very significant trigger.
I love a full and very healthy life, however it has to be balanced, and unfortunately time restricted eating and fasting in general has resulted in some health problems rather than benefits.
It’s absolutely the best thing to check with a health professional before jumping into these protocols. Tread carefully, as I feel my example shows there’s no one right thing for everyone unfortunately.
And what would be best ways to loose/minimize visceral fat? Longer fasts (48+ hr) seem to be the only option left.
IF/TRF worked for me. I lost 40-50lbs of visceral fat 180lbs --> 130lbs. Shirt size didn't change: Waist size went down from 33" to 29".
2MAD 12 hrs apart bracketing waking hours or OMAD in the middle of waking hours, switching it up to avoid boredom/plateau.
I didn't start 24+ hr fasts until 2 years in after already losing 30lbs. Now I fast over Saturday (Fri-Sun) weekly: I break fast on Sun when either my GKI =< 1 when I wake up, or I reach 40 hrs from my last meal sometime Fri.
It depends on the individual. I focused on becoming diabetes-free. Then 3 cycles of 21-day fast, refeed period and then a workout period dropped me down to my high school weight, thereby burning off the buildup of visceral fat over the years.
Lol. Now because that one paper came out on the Chinese study showing no difference between calorie restriction an time-restricted feeding, everyone is going to lose their minds 😂
To be fair, it would appear that Peter isnt as up to date or is over generalizing, because otherwise when talking about TRF he would need to distinguish between which period in the day the TRF applies... seeing as eTRF vs mTRF vs nTRF have very very different outcomes on most metrics like insulin , hormones, and metabolic factors the whole talk feels 3 - 4 years old even though its being posted in 2022.... for why e-TRF is so magical, probably need to look at Sachin Panda 's chronobiology talks or hit up pubmed for eTRF
I need to loose about 35 kg, I’ve lost 12 kg doing two meals in a 6 hour window but I eat a lot of protein and lift heavy.
I am eating in buffets only twice a week Monday/Friday. Only having non-caloric drinks and multivitamin in-between.
It is easier than it sounds, provided you do not have ANY food at home - this is KEY!
Is this unhealthy?
Gregor has a topic on a study comparing same diet/calories, fast vs 3 meals. Fast losing more weight. Worth looking in to.
so if we reduced calories but ate 8 times a day so that insulin is almost always elevated we would still lose weight burn stored fat? This seems to contradict a lot of others including Dr Gundry's new Keto Code where he discusses mitocondrial decoupling.
How does one find the right the right physician? I'm just an average dude but I want someone who is not stuck in the past and has an open mind to new information.
look for a doctor who practices "functional" medicine
Good luck. Remember the No1 rule, Dr's are the dispensers for Big Pharma. Not pharmacists, they are just the check out chick's. Try searching Dr Eric Berg. He has lots of worthwhile videos on all sorts of medical issues and takes a holistic approach to wellness and the importance of diet as a preventative measure for disease. Best of luck my friend.
For the last 3 weeks my first food
is at noon. And I don't eat again till 6 or 7 pm. Only getting about 1200 calories a day. I went from 213 to 198. I've been lifting weights for almost 2 years. I'm sure it's mostly water weight at this point.
What do you recommend then? Body building lifestyle with 7 protein meals a day.....active mTOR all day to get that much protein?
Circadian alignment of early onset caloric restrictionpromotes longevity in male C57BL/6J mice?
I practice time restricted feeding but I think the benefits are often overstated. It provides structure for me, eliminates snacking at night, but I agree with Peter that it's mostly about caloric intake.
A new study, a larger one than the usual, proved this. But it sounds so great. Too bad it is pointless unless used as a behavioral strategy.
I totally disagree. Especially with the loss of lean body mass. My personal experience with OMAD is the exact opposite.
The difference between caloric restriction and fasting is in the hormone response.
Do you have studies that show OMAD fasting does not increase human growth hormone, which leads to increased muscle growth or at least muscle sparing over caloric restriction?
It would make sense, people with low fat reserves this may be an issue.. but absent this.. it doesn't seem to be a concern.
And if you have a very low body fat %, then maybe add a few carbs to boost hunger, or simply eat more.
The temporary increase in growth hormone does not increase muscle growth. That is blown waaay out of proportion of its actual real world noticeable difference. If you eat once a day your probably only having muscle protein synthesis spike once which is not great for growth
Ryan is correct.
@@ryanhopkins1780 just like "temporary increases in cortisol" doesn't catabolise your muscles significantly.
There's a balance between anabolism and catabolism.
Short of long term fasting, as long as your body fat % isn't very low, and you're not eating garbage foods screwing up your hormonal signalling, the little muscle loss you have, will be countered by HGH and other anabolic hormones, which results in gaining it back. But we're not talking 3+ day fasting here, so that option is out.
With proper hormone signalling, as long as you eat enough protein, significant deficits in calories will simply be accounted for in fat burning. So untill you are quite lean, there's no issue. Once you are very lean, you body changes it's hormonal signalling so you will eat more. If you do not, then sure, I can agree with you in that context, but that's an extreme case, and easily remedied by eating more within your eating window.
So, I ask again, do you have a study to support your claims?
In complete contrast to the doctor's comments here, I have had very good success with IF, which I have been doing for about 3 years. In the first year, I lost 90lbs, and my body fat dropped from 33% to about 15%. After that it has dropped to 12%. I generally do 16:8 fasting, although at times I was doing 20:4. Of the 90lbs I lost, 2/3 was fat, and 1/3 was muscle, but according to the InBody machine that I use, my current muscle mass is still above the target muscle mass for my new weight. My insulin resistance (HOMA-IR) is as low as 0.5 or up to about 1.0. So from a body composition point of view and an insulin point of view, I'd say that IF is working well. The one problem that I have had is low blood albumin (i.e. low protein in my blood.) I may go off IF if spreading out my protein intake (which was already at 1.5-2g/kilo of body weight) improves this measure. But it seems that no one else has this problem (or perhaps no one ever talks about it.) In any case, I'm sure if you ate just chocolate bars and potato chips in your feeding window, that would be a disaster, but who would do that???
For longevity, is it time restricted eating or caloric restriction? Those are two different things! This question is so important.
David Sinclair, Peter Attia, and Steven Gundry must address this clearly
@Richard Breeze I'm a healthy fit person with a great body weight & BFP, and with a total of 3,000 TDEE. The question is to live longer do I have to eat my 3,000 calories in 4 hours food window (time restricted eating) or do I have to eat 2,500 calories and loos muscle and fat etc.. (caloric restriction)
@@qeva_ From what I understand of Sinclair's talks: Yes: You'd live longer at a 2500 Cal DAILY intake compared to a 3000 Cal DAILY intake, with all that entails.
@@iroulis Paul Saladino from CarnivoreMD asked David Sinclair a similar question and he responded "IDK that will be the best way to do that experiment" regarding lab mice with 2 groups, time restricted eating vs caloric restriction. So IDK it's really confusing haha
@@qeva_ There is no INHERENT Caloric Restriction in Time Restrictred/ Intermittent Fasting strategies, that's why I prefer to call it IF instead of TR. This may be the source of your confusion.
IF is to CYCLE your hormones to build your Circadian Rhythm and get your body into maintenance mode (autophagy).
Caloric Restriction doesn't do that.
It is easy to add Calories (in general) using the most Caloric Dense Macro: Fats in the form of Cream and Oils. Your 500 Cal is only 5oz of Cream or 5 Tbsp of Oils.
I'd like to see some evidence of someone on a 6 hour eating window who lost 10 pounds of lean tissue and gained 5 pounds of fat. I think you would be hard pressed to find such a person. Anyone who is consistently doing a 6 hour eating window is also probably doing resistance training of some sort and otherwise taking care of their body. I've been doing usually OMAD during the week and 8 hour eating window a couple times a week. I do resistance training 4 times a week and try to get some cardio in. I'm 41, 6'1", 195, 18% fat. Nothing to write home about, but restricted eating I believe has been one of the best tools for me to get to where I am. I used to be 220 and with a far higher fat %. I didn't do dexas back then, but I maxed out at 230 bench and struggled with repping a 205 squat. Now I can bench 240 x 5 as part of my normal workout, and my highest squat x 5 is 285. Not a weight lifting guy, nothing to write home about, but I am substantially stronger, have substantially more muscle, and the restricted eating window had been, for me, a great asset.
I don't disagree that the benefit may simply be from caloric restriction. But, so long as people are taking care of their body, and time restriction is an easier way for them to restrict calories, I think it is a great tool, and not something to be poopooed or villainized with a (imo kind of absurd) hypothetical.
But I love Peter. I always listen to what he has to say - that doesn't mean I believe he is infallible or everything he says comes from Gods mouth.
Agree, nothing in that example in the clip seemed realistic
What about multiple insulin spikes vs one or two spikes, I remember hearing the fewer spikes the better.
Hi Peter. It would be great when you could get Mr D Sinclair behind your table and put his and your own perspectives into one playing field. There appears to be some benefits for health-span with TRF and by especially limiting protein intake (MToR activity) and re-using old gene regulating proteins to preserve good epigenetics.
It likely fits some people while not so much to others. It can not be said sweepingly and conclusively as an universal recommendation that it is this or that - from what I have seen anecdotally from people around me there is pretty good individual divergence to it. Likely the genetic component and upbringing (gut biome) matters. Just a gut feeling, but I bet that when there would be selected random 1000 people, half of them on TRF and other half on 5 meals a day, the average would be just noise (no difference) from relevant metrics standpoint. It does not mean that it is beneficial for many of them. For statistical half the TRF probably does more harm than good. The plusses and minuses would add a total 0 .
What I can say from my last 4 years of eating once or twice a day is that I am never going back to eating early in the morning. My body fat (calliper 7 point method) went from 17 % to 9 % in a year and stays there, at 100 kg morning dry weight in an 17..18 hour fasting window. Also doing heavy lifting almost daily (weighted pullup, deadlift, weighted dips, overhead press) and eating minimum 150 g of protein a day. Never had and x-ray scan, but considering my strength and muscular areas dimensions there is no question - TRF helps me. In first 2 months I had to buy belt for pants, because the belt area circumference shrunk dramatically, while thighs, chest and biceps remained the same. I never had a 6 pack before TRF.
The mental clarity aspect is flying under the radar and really unexpected benefit. For that alone I skip my second meal when I have to focus on hard mental tasks (engineering).
Another practical benefit is time saving. In my case this is not insignificant - to prepare anything meaningful it takes minimum 20..30 minutes. Multiply that by 4 or 5 that is average for most people. That is at least an extra hour just wasted on feeding.
So you have completely changed your view on this? I remember watching you on Joe Rogan promoting it?
I think 12 hour window is enough basically. So it still a great tool
I have been tinkering with this and, for me, I have to restrict calories in order to reap the benefit. After a few years of OMAD I can eat like a MF'er and slam thousands and thousands of calories (talking 3-4k). If I keep caloric intake under 2000 I can continue to lose weight. OMAD is the only thing that has kept my BP in check.
It dropped my BP to 95/56 unfortunately
@@J.o.e_K No not really. If supplementing with sodium I get it back up to 105-110
I think the lesson is not so much around TRF, rather, doing it correctly. Example: eTRE. No caloric restrictions. Prioritizing whole food protein forward macros during eating window. Etc.
I feel chronically bloated unless I fast 16:8. My focus is on protein, fat and low carb. Never felt better
I eat when I’m hungry. If it’s called fasting or feasting I let my body decide. But I find if you don’t eat carbs you don’t get hungry very often.
I thought ketones are muscle preservers? Also, are these clients exercising or active in anyway ,because that is critical in maintaining muscle mass when fasting.
I fully agree! I run around 70-80k per week and I just wake up in the middle of the night with a hunger when I eat my last meal at 18. If I eat at 20-21 then I can sleep the whole night. I am eating the same amount. I just have abandoned IF by just looking at my kids. They need to eat right before the bed, otherwise they will lament that they are hungry and won't sleep :) Kids just save me from so many sleepless nights.
What about cognition benefits to IF???
What happened to the whole autophagy benefits line?
this is so confusing when you compare with what Sachin Panda says and also David Sinclair. Who to believe ?
Please talk with Dr. Satchin Panda at the Salk Institute. I think he has more knowledge on this subject...
Respectfully, a study does exist that compared two groups of cyclists - one eating and training normally - one eating within 7 hours but same training intensity. Same calories. Latter group lost a lot more fat.
What about the benefits of stimulating the migrating motor complex?
The most crucial thing missing from this whole discussion of IF or TRE is: the quality of food. In my experience, the quality of food is what controls how much we eat and for how long we don't feel hungry. Sadly, all american research and discussion is restricted inside the little box of medical/health establishment's orthodoxy, it will never reach anywhere.
David Sinclair has a different opinion on this... and I think he is the right one
Trf saved my life.
I strongly disagree. A couple of years ago I started a TRE (16/8 and later moved to 18+/6-) and the benefits clearly had nothing to do with the "calories". Only after about 2~5 day many symptoms resolved which are directly linked to high insulin. Most notably an apparent leptin resistance was gone after just less then 2 days. I tried restricting "calories" before...
(And yes, better leptin sensitivity [caused by lower insulin levels] will lead to less "caloric" intake, so there IS a link, but the causality goes in exact the opposite direction...)
Satchin Panda argues the exact opposite - caloric restriction mice studies are robust bc the mice are being fed once/day, which is TRF. He thinks TRF is doing the magic not CR
Can any other people with super fast metabolism comment on this? I find that my exercise capacity is severely reduced if I don’t eat enough, carbs in particular. That’s why IF doesn’t work for me.
This is quality stuff. thank you.
I thought, when you go longer between feedings, lowered insulin allows more time recruiting body fat for fuel, i/o turning dietary fat and carbs into body fat. That was the key metabolic insight which I levered to defeat T2D, 2-yr ago. I think the same (reduced) calories and macros spread over "3-squares" would have kept me hangry and fat. During the 24hours after heavy lifting (2x/wk), I eat many small protein snacks, and skip metformin and anti inflammatory supps. The rest of the time, I'm OMAD, except every 6-wk, I do a 3-day fast. I took a Kraft Diabetes test recently and was "pattern 1: insulin sensitive". I'm 65, 4-years post NAFLD liver x-plant, 9-mo into weight training, and definitely adding muscle like I never had before, so that's pretty good!
Congrats on the transformation!
But keep in mind, less insulin throughout the day with IF, but much higher amount secreted after that one huge meal. So overall, a wash. Effect on appetite? Hmm, possible I guess.
I have been using time restricted eating most of my life ... long before it was called IF. Why? I didn't do it to lose weight - I did it because I noticed i felt better and did not get that mid day slump after eating so many experience after eating throughout the day. Like many others have noticed - they FEEL better going long periods without eating - because our blood sugar and insulin levels stay stable throughout the day.
I felt vindicated many years ago when the ground breaking book "The Zone" came out that basically said spiking insulin levels were tied to most of the major illnesses people suffer from - like cancer, heart disease, diabetes ...etc. I don't do it to lose weight - but to feel better. If I happen to lose a few pounds - or - more likely prevent myself from gaining extra weight, that is a bonus. In recent years I have started fasting for longer periods of time, several times a month - and have noticed so many benefits, including enhancing my metal clarity - especially when I would start remembering obscure details from 40 years ago without any effort ...
Recently I started going on 26 to 48 hrs fasts .several times a month .. I also noticed that it really jump started weight loss much more than even eating in an 18 / 6 hour window would. Over the last 6 months I have lost at least 20 lbs - and I am now digging thru my closet trying to find old clothing that is 2 sizes smaller than it was 6 months ago - as the clothing that was one size smaller - is now getting too big and baggy..
- - One thing I know with certainty - is that I ALWAYS feel better and healthier when I can go without eating for at least 18 hours a day - no matter what the scales show..
@@ridgebriar17 thank you for sharing, also im curious about your eating window, after those 24-48 hour fasts you start eating 3 meals a day normally till starting other fasting period, or how do you do it? Cause I’m concerned on how you or I can reach my macros and calories to whatever I want like bulk or cut or maintaining. Thanks.
@@aleosoriov I almost never eat 3 meals a day. With a longer fast, often you start to adapt to not eating and feel alert and energetic hours into the fast. When I do start to eat, I go back to more of a traditional "IF" eating time frame. If I return to an 18 / 6 eating window - depending on how hungry I am, I may break up those 6 hours into 2 separate meals. Longer Fasting can do amazing things - including periods of not being hungry and being hyper alert.
One of the last times I went on a 36 hr fast, my memory became so extraordinary, it was almost scary. Dozens of recollections of minute details from decades ago keep popping into my head without effort - including names of people I barely knew all those years ago. I could remember the first and last name of my first landlady while I was still in college - including the street number and name, of my first apartment in the 1970's - and the first and last names of coworkers I barely knew from my first real job. When I needed to figure out the cost of something per unit, I got up to get a calculator - then chose instead to do the calculation in my head because it would be faster.
The Amazing part of all this ... is my enhanced memory skills continued for weeks after that fast ended.
My 29 yo Engineer son who has an excellent memory ... was both stunned - and envious.
I am so confused. I thought you were doing OMAD, and are a proponent of it.
I think the idea of these shot clips isn't so good. The whole thing is that the subject is nuanced and requires a so-called "deep dive"
You should listen to scientists dr. Satchin Panda from Stanford University on the subject of tre with specific experiments on mice and humans. TRE works.
I never eat breakfast . I'm 170 lbs. For 20 years. But for the last 5 years I've been working out 3 hours in morning. I'm in great shape. Same weight . But body is ripped. Fit. Strong. I just eat after 2 pm.
Never eat in morning.
Everyone at gym I know eats in morning.
But they have more body fat than me.
Everyone is different. If you are eating in morning and have 10% bodyfat like me .
And are fit and happy. Good
Keep it up.
So has Peter stopped practising time-restricted feeding?
lol wut? Can we get more explanation? People have already mentioned Jason Fung's work, but I mean... seems like a bombshell of a change of heart, but I could definitely be misunderstanding and just need to listen to the podcast.
Here are some new studies about staying in ketosis without time restricted eating:
ua-cam.com/video/xJBVy_sIfxg/v-deo.html
New research is upending some assumptions about keto and IF.
I'm eating whole foods plant based. Any longer than 14 h night fast I'm starving. I imagine if I'd be eating dense animal foods it would be very different going longer than that ..
Are you getting meeting your daily protein needs with supplements?
@@J.o.e_K i mean loosing to much weight. Not feeling hungry. I'm ok with that
@@rebelinthehighcastle all plants have protein. I'm fine but have to eat quite alot
@@J.o.e_K ok. I'm not interested in opinions and try not to hold any opinions on diet myself. I follow the research and the actual results i have myself. I was an omnivore for 20 years. Then stopped meat for ethical reasons but experienced improved health and wellbeing. Then i noticed that my asthma disappeared when excluding dairy. Then only eggs were left of animal foods, and i have been on and off them for extended periods but never noticed a difference there so now I don't eat them anymore (guess i would if I'd be traveling and it was a lack of options). Equally i experienced further improvements when excluding all oils and proceed foods. So now I'm wholefoods plant based no oil but "cheating" with lots of dark chocolate, some plant based yogurts and tofu. My health and performance has never been better. I'm 25 years plant based except for the periods of including eggs years ago. This diet doesn't lack anything but you have to eat a lot, and i kind of like that ...
@@J.o.e_K thanks 🙏 you to mate! (My initial comment here was just to point out that my diet style only lets me fast up to maximum 14 h per night, preferably less. But i also suspect less mTor activation and other things that actually lessens the need for fasting from eating this way)
I’m a bit confused, so there aren’t really other health benefits to intermittent fasting just loosing weight ?
Pretty much.
When we know better, we do better.
For 5 yrs I had 4-5 colon polyps removed each year then last yr I did a 48 hr fast per week for 3 months then 1 fast per month. This year? NO POLYPS ! I’ve been signed off. I believe fasting causes autopagerise that cleans the system.
Honestly, I think TRF depends on your neurotype.
Really??.
Several studies compare groups of people eating same calories with one doing in time restricted and the other not..Same calories!!
Andv the time restricted group loses about 7% more weight..Please see Ben Azadi..
I am thoroughly confused. Will have to revisit this! I thought TRE when in coordinate with circadian rhythm the body operates as it should. I have never been able to do OMAD so try two meals a day between 12-6…have tried fasting mimicking and it has helped align my glucose levels…. I am still choosing a strict Keto because I am struggling with multiple health issues….but overall the when to eat and how much still fluctuates. See? Confused.
It depends of the context. If you have signs of metabolic syndrome/insulin resistance, carb restriction like keto is the most important. TRE is secondary but can be an option.
For some people they may like this method and if it works for them I think that’s fine. If you like 3 meals a day that’s fine too. Do what works for your lifestyle.
Your singing a different tune brother!
My question is… why is he sponsored by zero fasting if it’s not working?
@PeterAttiaMD I noticed you kept saying “you think” when trying to interpret the actual benefits of fasting but you didn’t cite any scientific references why?
Caloric restriction likely plays a part but they have already done studies that demonstrate the exact same calories consumed earlier in the day are less fattening than those consumed later in the day. Therefore, it’s not just time restricted feeding we should recommend but early time restricted feeding.
Here’s a playlist from another MD that shows the research in this area. Thank you for all the work you do and God bless you!
ua-cam.com/play/PL5TLzNi5fYd9_fKTUsJAannC63hLGmOpX.html
this all gets mucked up when u confuse the issue with losing weight. the benefits of intermittent fasting r fairly obvious to anyone that does it --see comments--and if u lose or gain weight that seems besides the point. overlooked--benefit of resting the digestive system and that one just feels better avoiding stuffing urself every day all day long.
They've done trf in mice and the results were clear. I dont think it translates 100% to humans , but certainly it has benefits.
Typically the trf windows for mouse studies are something like 24 hours of feeding and 24 hours of fasting. Or sometimes 12 and 12. But keep in mind a mouse will starve to death after only four days, whereas humans can go 2 months without food. In other words, TRF for a mouse might be the equivalent of a multi-day fast for humans, meaning that it may not tell us anything about simply skipping breakfast.
@@J.o.e_K Your comment is incoherent. Honestly I don't even know what you're trying to say. Please rephrase.
What about alternate-day fasting? Does that not impact protein recycling/ Mitophagy/Autophagy?
Sad to hear Peter so confused on this one.