After some testing I would say that LOTV feels a lot better than DA in M+. Sure you have the on demand burst but after last week of necrotic and this week with boltering I feel like LoTV both has higher overall dmg and feels better to play. Thanks for all the content Matt :)
Agree with all except shadow crash. The insanity you gain from each spirit as well as the small damage boost is too good compared to a small bit of cleave you get every one in a while. If you're unable to get enough spirits to = the insanity gain. Then you're not built enough with the correct stats.
Great video as usual, Matt! I didnt see you talking about DA vs LotV in m+, is DA really that default? In raids there's no discussion, but I've experimented quite a bit with LotV in lvl ~10 keys on fortified, i find it performs just as well as DA. I've been farming lvl 10 Tol Dagor like twice a day for the last week or so, and ive found that LotV is actually pretty good. There's a sweet spot where every pull is roughly one VF long, with Dark Void and LotV you can get into VF almost instantly on every pack, which is great. I agree that DA is the default choice, and is always good in every situation, but I dont think it's always as far ahead of LotV as people think. Have you done any testing with LotV? I'd love to hear your thoughts.
I haven't really tried LotV on live. I played it on beta until DA was properly implemented though. I'd have to try it again on live, but I think the double burst potential of DA is super strong, but with LotV you do get to voidform super quick and can get an eruption off on small adds + keep swp up easier. I can see the strength of it but yeah I'd have to try it again to really say how it competes against DA.
Are you ever supposed to cast Mind flay? Im never sure if I should start casting it or wait for the last 1sec of cooldown on either void bolt or swv. Since once you started casting mind flay it takes a good second before you can cast either one again
Basically if you are to be casting Mind Flay (so 1-2 targets) use it when there's nothing else to cast, purely as a filler when there's nothing else to be casting, interrupt it for swv/vb as soon as possible.
It does seem like casting flay/sear delays one's vb cast . But by casting a filler you are dealing damage and gaining insanity (over a period of roughly 2 seconds) as opposed to not for that 1 second in between your previous cast and vb. That seems better even though you are delaying your vb cast. Im sure it results in a longer void form too, allowing for even more vb casts than you would have otherwise.
We can't all be demon hunters and zoom in, hit two buttons that require nothing special to use other than hitting them and watching your numbers fly through the roof as you delusionally convince yourself you're better than the other people dpsing, and you're winning!! No, you're not winning. Someone who's never played WoW could sit down and top the charts in a mythic with a demon hunter. "Run into the bad guys, hit eye beam, and blade dance" done.
Still hoping there's some mechanical changes on the ptr soon, but I don't think Blizz even know where they're going with Shadow. If they're not doing mechanical changes some number buffs to our single target spells would be great.
I think shadow priest was good in Legion and not actually that bad as people are saying it is. just like in BfA. But I still do like the toolkit of Legion Spriest more than the one we have now. This is just a handicap of Legion IMO
Shadow was good all of Legion raid wise for sure, viable every single tier. M+ though Shadow just didn't have the toolkit to do great damage in keystones, took a lot to be on par with mediocre players from the other specs. In a lot better spot now though, not perfect but significantly better.
I've tried that, it's definitely worse than Crash by itself. It might be better than Crash with Spiteful Apparitions, but then it raises the question about whether Spiteful Apparitions + AS beats Death Throes + Crash, I'm not sure it would but I don't have any Spiteful Apparition traits to try it out.
There aren't really any break points or targets other than the 18% for using Auspicious spirits. Best advice is to sim it and find out which gives you more dps at various levels of these stats. Otherwise, just get as much of you can of both. I find myself needing mostly single target talents in uldir. I pretty much use twist of fate on every boss except zek voz and maybe zul. I use AS on taloc, mother, zek voz. SWD on the rest.
Yeah, they designed themselves into a corner. They didn't want to get rid of the voidform mechanic after only one expansion, so kept it on even though it doesn't work. 99% sure when 9.0 comes around it will be gone. It'd be too large of an undertaking to rework mid-expansion.
actually turned on my pc just to tell you that if you think that shadow can do top damage then you are very wrong its mathematically not possible atm. and if u have seen shadow top damage inPVE then my friend you have been playing with very garbage players.
@@sosox7x yeah actually you are right. I mostly do pvp. tried out some m+9-m+10 as spriest today. I only did the most dmg but not the best dps (since others dps died and I didn't). Still wasn't super bad dps. Around 12k, u have some good cc tho, can dispell, shield your tank, heal the whole group with vampiric embrace. Not that bad in a 5 man's. I do not raid, probably garbage dps when u hit single target.
@@sosox7x and you have to to way more work than let's say a melee class. You have to constantly move and still get your rotation right. I can understand that pve people are mad that sp isn't doing well. But as a pvp player I'm super happy about sp right now as it is
Thank you for the guide! My guildmates were mocking me for playing a "meme spec" until I out dpsed our demon hunter thanks to you!
Great video :) trying to get into Shadow for M+ so helped alot.
Great fucking video matthew
After some testing I would say that LOTV feels a lot better than DA in M+. Sure you have the on demand burst but after last week of necrotic and this week with boltering I feel like LoTV both has higher overall dmg and feels better to play.
Thanks for all the content Matt :)
I've had a few people suggest LotV over DA. I don't really see how it could be better, but I'll have to give it a go the next time I do some keys.
great video :)
@Matthxw Which addon you use so you can seperate nameplates and target them easier?
Agree with all except shadow crash. The insanity you gain from each spirit as well as the small damage boost is too good compared to a small bit of cleave you get every one in a while. If you're unable to get enough spirits to = the insanity gain. Then you're not built enough with the correct stats.
Great video as usual, Matt! I didnt see you talking about DA vs LotV in m+, is DA really that default? In raids there's no discussion, but I've experimented quite a bit with LotV in lvl ~10 keys on fortified, i find it performs just as well as DA. I've been farming lvl 10 Tol Dagor like twice a day for the last week or so, and ive found that LotV is actually pretty good. There's a sweet spot where every pull is roughly one VF long, with Dark Void and LotV you can get into VF almost instantly on every pack, which is great. I agree that DA is the default choice, and is always good in every situation, but I dont think it's always as far ahead of LotV as people think. Have you done any testing with LotV? I'd love to hear your thoughts.
I haven't really tried LotV on live. I played it on beta until DA was properly implemented though. I'd have to try it again on live, but I think the double burst potential of DA is super strong, but with LotV you do get to voidform super quick and can get an eruption off on small adds + keep swp up easier. I can see the strength of it but yeah I'd have to try it again to really say how it competes against DA.
Are you ever supposed to cast Mind flay? Im never sure if I should start casting it or wait for the last 1sec of cooldown on either void bolt or swv. Since once you started casting mind flay it takes a good second before you can cast either one again
Basically if you are to be casting Mind Flay (so 1-2 targets) use it when there's nothing else to cast, purely as a filler when there's nothing else to be casting, interrupt it for swv/vb as soon as possible.
It does seem like casting flay/sear delays one's vb cast . But by casting a filler you are dealing damage and gaining insanity (over a period of roughly 2 seconds) as opposed to not for that 1 second in between your previous cast and vb. That seems better even though you are delaying your vb cast. Im sure it results in a longer void form too, allowing for even more vb casts than you would have otherwise.
We can't all be demon hunters and zoom in, hit two buttons that require nothing special to use other than hitting them and watching your numbers fly through the roof as you delusionally convince yourself you're better than the other people dpsing, and you're winning!!
No, you're not winning. Someone who's never played WoW could sit down and top the charts in a mythic with a demon hunter. "Run into the bad guys, hit eye beam, and blade dance"
done.
Based on how long 8.1 has been out, do you think there'll be any reworks or just some number tuning?
Still hoping there's some mechanical changes on the ptr soon, but I don't think Blizz even know where they're going with Shadow. If they're not doing mechanical changes some number buffs to our single target spells would be great.
I think shadow priest was good in Legion and not actually that bad as people are saying it is. just like in BfA. But I still do like the toolkit of Legion Spriest more than the one we have now. This is just a handicap of Legion IMO
Shadow was good all of Legion raid wise for sure, viable every single tier. M+ though Shadow just didn't have the toolkit to do great damage in keystones, took a lot to be on par with mediocre players from the other specs. In a lot better spot now though, not perfect but significantly better.
@@Matthxw They just need to fix the clunkyness feeling and we are in an almost perfect spot
i think with a crit% of about 19+ AS is better than SC?
I've tried that, it's definitely worse than Crash by itself. It might be better than Crash with Spiteful Apparitions, but then it raises the question about whether Spiteful Apparitions + AS beats Death Throes + Crash, I'm not sure it would but I don't have any Spiteful Apparition traits to try it out.
pretty sure that's only true if it's spread aoe
And which talents are you using when raiding?
also which crit/ haste% should i aim for
There aren't really any break points or targets other than the 18% for using Auspicious spirits. Best advice is to sim it and find out which gives you more dps at various levels of these stats. Otherwise, just get as much of you can of both.
I find myself needing mostly single target talents in uldir. I pretty much use twist of fate on every boss except zek voz and maybe zul. I use AS on taloc, mother, zek voz. SWD on the rest.
What addons do you use?
I hate the void form gimmick. I wish they'd drop it and rebalance
Yeah, they designed themselves into a corner. They didn't want to get rid of the voidform mechanic after only one expansion, so kept it on even though it doesn't work. 99% sure when 9.0 comes around it will be gone. It'd be too large of an undertaking to rework mid-expansion.
Step one to do well as shadow in BFA
1- dont play shadow
Shadow can consistently do top dps and has great utility. It's just not easy to play, that's why noobs crying
actually turned on my pc just to tell you that if you think that shadow can do top damage then you are very wrong its mathematically not possible atm. and if u have seen shadow top damage inPVE then my friend you have been playing with very garbage players.
@@sosox7x yeah actually you are right. I mostly do pvp. tried out some m+9-m+10 as spriest today. I only did the most dmg but not the best dps (since others dps died and I didn't). Still wasn't super bad dps. Around 12k, u have some good cc tho, can dispell, shield your tank, heal the whole group with vampiric embrace. Not that bad in a 5 man's. I do not raid, probably garbage dps when u hit single target.
@@sosox7x and you have to to way more work than let's say a melee class. You have to constantly move and still get your rotation right. I can understand that pve people are mad that sp isn't doing well. But as a pvp player I'm super happy about sp right now as it is
@@sosox7x at least we have the best healer for m+ tho ;)