Holding down-back charges both Sonic Boom and Flash Kick, so Guile crouching is both optimal for his gameplay and a meme of sorts amongst Street Fighter players lol
@@pallukun It is, because it's incredibly cheap even if it is an optimal mix up. By constantly crouch blocking, it effectively enables Guile to become a very annoying zoner that also doesn't immediately crumple if you do manage to get in like a lot of zoners since he's still fully functional in close range. It effectively made the game no fun for anyone since it was a completely braindead zoning method with minimal requirements of having to think about when to use what. It turned the character into a two branch flowchart. Are they close to you? Yes -> Flash Kick No -> Sonic Boom Repeat
Small correction regarding Guile’s misinputed aerials. There is no sweetspot/sourspot because if you look closely, he’s doing a different kick. The weaker damaging one is his “Medium Kick” while the stronger one is his “Heavy Kick”. This also explains why his Flash Kick sometimes alternates between doing 16.9% and 17.6%. He’s doing two different versions of the same move, with the Heavy version doing marginally more damage and leaping higher into the air. Think of how if you tap Ken’s Shoryuken he does a regular uppercut that’s less powerful but more safe, and if you hold it he does the flaming version that’s more powerful but less safe.
@@AshZucchini8168 That's not true. Most Street Fighter games have a different set of air normals depending on whether you persom a neutral jump vs a back/forward jump.
Guile's assist trophy is a tribute solely dedicated to what Street Fighter players call "down-backing" It refers to when a player will just hold diagonally down and away from the opponent in order to charge both Sonic Boom and Flash Kick, since the directional input counts as both a down and a back input. This way, the player can camp while choosing whatever option fits their situation best - Sonic Booms for opponents that stay away, and Flash Kick when they decide to jump in with an unsafe option. Additionally, holding down and back like this also let's them block any incoming attacks, which the assist trophy also mirrors :)
@@Felipera_ That said, you can still do j.HK as an air-to-air to catch their jump, keep your opponent close, hold down-back through the jump, and start doing blockstrings into Sonics, or close HP > Flash Kick to confirm damage or whatever until you're back in zoning range.
Down-backing also allows you to crouch block as you charge, meaning opponents need to jump in or use an overhead, which is usually reactable. This further compliments his gameplan because he can anti-air jump ins with Flash Kick. Assist trophy Guile also crouch blocks and anti-airs with Flash Kick.
The guile fact is so cool. So for a quick explanation about why he is always crouching, it's because in fighting games, most charge character have both a down charge and a back charge, in this case flash kick and sonic boom. And you can charge both at the same time by holding diagonal down back. The joke here is that in sf2 projectiles were super broken, so guildes would spam it. And because the best way of avoiding projectiles is jumping above them, an anti air is a good counter against that. Now the problem is that charge anti air specials are way stronger than motion anti air special. Because you can't use them on reaction. But guile is sf2 didn't care, they spammed a broken projectile and charged the very move that counter the best way of dealing with this projectiles. Now it's possible to catch him by jumping fast on him. Forced to use the move as soon as it charge you often see miss imput. Now why there is no sonic boom miss imput, because that's easy to not do any and there is no urgency to do them.
Projectiles werent the broken thing about guile in SF2. Flashkick also wasnt used at all. The prevailing guile strat was j. Roundhouse into forward heavy for an actually inescapable throw loop because of how the frame data worked out and the fact teching throws didnt exist. Guile and dhalsim both were rush down characters despite being designed to be zoners
Just checked some of the game's code- -The "nair" is actually two different moves: ---8hkair, which is 44 frames and does 15% ---9mkair, which is 34 frames and does 12% -In addition, sonic boom is called "guileshot" and flash kick is "summersault" -Interestingly, summersault also has a light and heavy variant with the same animations, one does 28%/26%, and the other 27%/25%
The names for the "nair" also are named after the respective attacks in SF2. 8hkair is his neutral jump heavy kick, and 9mkair is his diagonal jump medium kick. For context, buttons in Street Fighter are usually shortened to an acronym, like MK for medium kick, or HP for heavy punch And some games use "numpad" notation for the directions (so 8 would be up, 2 would be down, 4 and 6 would be back and forward, respectively)
@@nfsman3452 furthermore, the numbers mean directions. look at your keyboard's numpad. 8 is straight up (neutral jump) 9 is a diagonal (up + right jump) it's a common notation in the FGC. great catch you guys!
@@nfsman3452 I like the inclusion of the 9mkair notation because it shows the Guile player has trouble consistently hitting the up direction when under pressure lol
If you play with assist trophies on, you can see in your “kills” at the menu after the match when an assist trophy gets a kill. It’s actually a very pretty logo for it too!
@@infiltrate6807 I don’t think so, considering in the game I played I killed two assist trophies but only had one assist trophy kill, and the other person killed my assist trophies twice as well but didn’t have any of the symbols at the end of the game, but I might be mistaken since it was over a week ago now
I’ve seen the ivysaur up b vibrate on the final hit kill screen so much, I thought that was what it looked like normally! That’s so interesting that’s it’s just a slowed down thing
I think Mythra’s decreased landing lag with Trampoline does actually have something to do with her being switchable with Pyra, but I think it might be more than that. My theory is that Mythra’s “lag” values (end lag on moves, landing lag, etc) could have a unique multiplier when compared to Pyra. So that the moves could be easier to program. Let’s say Pyra’s the “definitive” character between the two. Mythra probably just has some multipliers in damage and lag and whatnot when performing the same move you would perform with Pyra and that could also apply to the landing lag on PAC-Man’s trampoline.
Here's a potential explanation for the missinput chance only happening when you're jumping; since Flash Kick is primarily used as an anti-air option, jumping at someone can put mental pressure on them to "react" to your jump and thus lead to the misinputs. So not only is it simulating human error in the inputs but also potentially simulating the reasons behind those errors.
Here’s a theory about Fox jab: The broken Fox animation definitely has to do with his programmed IK (inverse kinematics), which determine how his foot reacts to slopes. They didn’t turn this off for Fox in this animation, which causes his foot to try to make contact with the ground. I’d try this with Cloud’s foot to see if it happens there too, as it also is a rapid jab that ends in a foot over the edge and has IK scripts attached.
As someone who does play traditional fighting games fairly often, that explanation of Guile's mis-inputs was pretty accurate. It would either be from not holding crouch-block (down + back, since holding back is how you guard in most 2D fighting games like Street Fighter) long enough for Flash Kick to be usable or from simply missing the timing. Given how Guile's assist trophy works, I would assume it's caused by the former, where if the opponent is still nearby after the first Flash Kick and Guile attempts another it simply causes him to do a jumping heavy kick.
Fox's Legs broken by something called IK. The Rig tries to place the foot on an appropriate angle to/on the stage, so animations on slopes look good and don't clip. Beyond the ledge, there is no geometry where the Rig could allign the foot by so it's rotated unnaturally.
If I had to guess about Fox’s foot breaking like that, I would hazard a guess and say Fox is trying to stand on the edge of the stage. You can see it in some fighters’ feet when they’re stood on slants or ledges that their foot kinda hangs off the surface in front of them, or it’s positioned to match the stage geometry. Like if you stood on a pipe in Yoshi’s Island Melee I’m guessing Fox wants to both stand on the corner, and keep doing his rapid jab animation?
I suspect it's because it's still trying to put the feet on the ground, but the animation has an offset from the ground. So when the ground "disappears" (as he reaches over the ledge), wonky stuff happens
From the look of it, the misinput flashkick only happens when you're on the air. Notably, guile has 2 flashkicks he can use, one that in SF would be attatched to the light kick button and one for the heavy kick button. When you jump he does the heavy version, which has more ending lag but goes highern, hurts more, and presumably has more i frame coverage, but i doubt they went that far. The mis-input is a jump heavy kick, which would only come from heavy flashkick. This is probably because they wanted the misinput to still hit, and a jump light kick was one detail too much for an assist trophy.
That misinput fact made me go “OOOOO WHOA” out loud. Also the barrels reusing the crate breaking animation is smart on the game dev side of things. Good shit 😎🤙
For the Fox rapid jab ender thing, my theory is that they forgot to turn off whatever code adjusts the feet angle, like for idle animations the legs will be different depending on the angle/elevation of the ground, I think they simply accidentally left that on during that animation and it's causing some wonkiness as a result.
The Mythra lag thing is really interesting, because it implies that Mythra literally just uses the same animation files as Pyra, just sped up by around 60% by default. I guess it makes sense, since there's no reason to have two animation files if the only difference is a speed up. This also implies that Pyra is the dominant one, which checks out.
As someone who plays Smash and has recently gotten into Street Fighter, it really is amazing seeing just how faithful the Guile assist trophy is. It's such a perfect caricature of low-level Guile players, spamming nothing but Booms and Flash Kicks (one for if the opponent is far away, the other if they try to jump in/get close), constantly holding down-back to charge both moves while also blocking low (the safest way to block in SF since its only vulnerable to air attacks and certain slow and unrewarding ground moves (in fact I think the assist trophy in Smash is only vulnerable to air attacks when crouching to reference this, not sure though)), and of course, misinputting Flash Kick and getting jump roundhouse. In fact I think the reason he never misinputs while you're on the ground and only does it when you're jumping around is because a charge move like Flash Kick can't be used quickly on reaction due to the charge time, so if someone jumps at you and you aren't ready for it, your anti-air Flash Kick won't get enough charge in time and will come out as jump roundhouse (charge moves are also tricky to learn at first and this kind of misinput is common with lower level players) Probably one of the most subtly detailed assist trophies in the game
I've just discoverded this. If you go to training mode with either Marth or Lucina, with a Meta Knight opponent (I tested and this does not work for Kirby) and spam side smash when training mode loads (it has to be in the training mode stage), the first 2 smash attacks won't connect, even though the third hit and so one do connect
(1:35) I think it has something to do with the game trying to make the feet stand on the ground when the character is standing. So it looks correct on slopes and such. Seems like it's still trying to do that during that attack.
Fox's foot breaking looks like a classic IK problem. IK, or Inverse Kinematics, is the mathy stuff most games these days do to try and keep your character's feet planted on the ground in a natural looking way. This prevents (or at least mitigates) issues of steep slopes causing characters to have one foot "walking on air" and/or clipping into a slope. Another way to think of it like this: characters have a basic stand and walk cycle that doesn't account for slopes, and IK causes the character's foot and leg to sort of magnetize to the ground whenever they step/stand. Normally, IK systems are designed so that they shut off during certain circumstances, but you almost always end up with weird edge cases that cause them to freak out. In this case, it looks like Fox's attack animation has its IK system activated on the attacking foot for the last jab; doing this over ledge cause the game to attempt to find the floor below Fox's foot, and then offset the foot by what is defined in the animation. Normally, this is fine. However, when the floor below Fox's foot is a kill volume waaaaaaaaay below the foot, the IK freaks out and tries to "plant" Fox's foot on that terrain. tl;dr, Smash, like most modern games, uses some fancy maths to make walking and standing look good even on complex terrain, but it acts a little weirdly here and tries to orient Fox's foot in the wrong direction.
plot twist : examinee is just a PKBeats alt for him to be able to just post his own facts while making everyone think it's a follower's submission so they have a "chance" to show up
The failed invincible Terry Rising tackle input that instead does Up Air can be remedied by turning of stick jump, although it will input up tilt instead
You forgot to test Mii Brawler's counter. Normally, it command-grabs you after triggering it, but what happens with Shadow's freeze frame and walking away..? Does it miss..? And if so, does it have an animation for that..?
I didn't even know Guile could use a jump heavy kick in this game. Wonder what other street fighter inputs are attached to his character but never seen
@@lazyryan3766 top right to bottom left. Top right (Mythra) at 11:46 Examinee623 throughout the video, first at 0:11 Speaking of… at 5:16 Game and Watch 9 jump cut at 3:03 And the training mode slowdown glitch with Ivysaur at 12:45
Aight I wanna say, you did a fantastic job explaining charge inputs. The biggest thing (which I might’ve just misheard) but the way they work is that you hold the opposite direction from the attack (Back… Forward for Sonic Boom / Down… Up for Flash Kick). You can also do a quarter-directional of the charging direction, meaning you can do Down + Back… Forward OR Down + Back… Forward. It just so happens that Back is also how you Guard, and Down-Back is how you low guard, which looks like a regular crouch until he’s either hit, or does the charge move. Long story short, one of the safest way to do charge attacks, while also being unpredictable, is crouch-guarding.
The one problem I have when it came to the shulk fact is that most "inform" videos that feature shulks counter never input his "true vision" variant of his counter, when he holds torwards the direction of a player he knows he's going to counter. I wanted to know if the true variant input could be inputted while in the forzen state.
My guess is that Mythra has some kind of multiplier on the lag for certain things to make her actions faster than Pyra's, and that the developers didn't test the interaction between that multiplier and Pac-Mans trampoline.
Here's an interesting fact : In the Alpharad video titled "SUPER SMASH BROS ULTIMATE (EVO 2018)" at 3:50, Alpha scrolls through the Ridley alts commenting on there not being a Mecha-Ridley one. And indeed, in this version, the 2 Ridley eventually ends up with are replaced with normal skins that have the same colors as the Mecha-Ridley ones. Making Ridley the only Smash Ultimate character with more than 8 known alts
Did anyone else notice that at 8:55 when PK was showing the damage for guile the first kick kinda looks like a forward air and the second one that does more damage looks like a back air? My guess is that it’s not a sweetspot like he said but that guile bair does more than his fair.
In street fighter, you can attack with three different strengths; light, medium and heavy. The kick that did more damage was simply his heavy kick, while the other one was a weaker variant.
@@masteroak7474 True. Adding on to that, in Street Fighter, you get different attacks during a neutral jump (straight up and down) than you do during a diagonal jump. That might also be a difference.
My guess for the Fox weird animation is foot ik. Maybe the characters use ik to plant their foot against the ledge and since its over the ledge the ik is going off and its making the foot move towards the goal which would be the ledge. That's my only guess
I actually noticed the Yoshi's Island fact myself somewhat close to the game's release, thanks to a spirit fight during which there's poison on the ground, and it is visible when using the camera to look off-screen
My best guess for Fox's foot causing that is that there's actually a thing added onto animations that's called like Slope Contour. Basically what it does is changes animations for characters feet/legs to match up with the shape of the ground, slope, platform etc. It can be removed in some cases but with the rapid jab being over the edge it's affecting that foot as it's trying to look flush/natural against the ground.
the fact that guile has all of that and then ALSO unique forward jump and neutral jump animations. for the assist trophy thats mostly just a joke about turtling. this game is so funny
Yes, roundhouse and heavy kick are interchangeable. However, people only use the term "roundhouse" when talking about street figthter, since that was what "heavy kick" was called back in street fighter 2 before the name was standardized.
Many people have pointed out that Guile's sitting down is a reference to how Guile mains in Street Fighter often hold down back in order to charge both Sonic Boom and Flash Kick, one which requires holding back for over a second, then forwards+punch, and one that requires holding down for over a second then up+kick. In fact, Guile as a whole is pretty much the most iconic 'Charge character'. This might be the reason for him being the assist trophy for Street Fighter, along with his playstyle being reliant on it, as opposed to someone like Chun Li, who's also a charge character, but tends to be a lot more aggressive
I’ve been playing street fighter for over 10 years and been playing smash for about the same casually. I kinda like wish there was more people willing to step outside their comfort zone because street fighter is such a dope series
1:35 when people animate characters they typically use curves and keyframe probaly moved the keyframe or something ,squishing curves, but not anchor points and didnt notice
If you ever watched Maximillian's reaction to Guile's assist trophy, he says "look at him charge that bullshit!" because down-back allows Guile to charge both his Sonic Boom (Back > Foward+Punch) and Flash Kick (Down > Up+Kick). Since back is also block in Street Fighter, that's also why he guards attacks when you try to attack him.
Guile is what’s know as a Charge Character. They’re know for playing defensively and their signature “charge” input. Charge inputs are like you described, hold the stick in one direction, then flick the stick to the opposite direction and press the right button. Guile’s Sonic Boom has you hold back flick forward and press punch, Flash Kick has you hold down flick up and press kick. This is the reason Guile is always crouching. Holding diagonally down and back counts as both holding down and back readying both sonic boom and flash kick. It’s the strat used by every Guile player is the real game.
Maybe Mythra has a function that makes her frame data faster than Pyra. And since Pyra doesn't have any special fall moves, this was overlooked. Try comparing their grab-release endlag.
Technically the Up Specials where you ascend and than descend do still have Special Fall, most easily seen if for example you use Mario's fluud to push them off the stage while they're still in the endlag of the attack
1: I Bet that's the game's IK system acting up. For those of you who don't know, Inverse Kinematics, or IK, is a kind of system used to make sure that a character's feet stay on the ground despite uneven footing, without having to go through and custom animate a ton of different walking positions; if you've ever stood a character right next to a ledge they can step up on, with one foot on the ground, and the other on the ledge, with their knee bent up, that's IK in action.
i think the guile thing comes from a lapse in his 'decision making' in the sense that he decides which move to use based on the opponents position. so when the opponent is jumping around, he tries to attack him and then 'changes his mind' so to speak, resulting in neither move coming out properly. i hope that explanation made sense. also explains why he never misinputs when idle.
11:47 well the other examples it looked like the landing lag was not finished with the animation and *snapped* to the idle. My immediate thought is that maybe mythra has the least landing lag in the entire game and so since her landing lag animation finishes before the pac man landing lag, she just goes into her idle. Unlike every other character who technically has their landing lag shortened.
The Guile Assist Trophy references a hated playstyle for him done by players where he crouches by the edge of the screen, throwing out Sonic Booms if the opponent is far away and using Flash Kick when they get close. Him misinputing Flash Kick references players often misinputing the move.
The only thing with mithra trampoline landing lag that I can think of is some sort of accommodation that was made with her special foresight ability, perhaps this special landing lag is a possible work around for a potential bug or game crashing interaction with it. Very strange one indeed.
An interesting fact about the Ivy section, as a competitive player i've seen many Ivy players do something like forward-air to nair to up-b as a kill confirm. And every time the game triggers the final spark Ivy's vine starts moving erratically. Always looked off to me.
regarding the Fox fact at the beginning, i think it might be an issue with the Inverse Kinematics system smash uses to keep a character's feet on the ground even on slopes. with there being no ground beneath fox's foot, the system freaks out and, in the process, turns his foot in a weird way to try and compensate
Wait, what if Guile uses that kick when he is in the air and has an enemy nearby? Maybe he can't use flash kick or sonic boom in the air so they gave him a move for when that happens, which is rare to see because of Guile's will to stay on the floor, crouched
That's literally just how Street Fighter is. Your specials have to specify "Air OK" to do them mid-air, like Ryu and Ken's Tatsus or Akuma's air fireballs. Guile can hit a button and that's it. He's got two specials, and he has to stay grounded; aerial charge specials are part of why Vatista from Under Night is literally the best character in her game. With Guile, his air buttons are just to challenge other jumps, then do actual combos into Sonic Hurricane or Double Flash.
my only thought for why mythra would have an altered landlag for pac man's trampoline is maybe it's because she is tied directly to pyra, including stats, moves, and everything, even more so that pokemon trainer, her landlag is determined by a multiplier rather than just a value
Also there has to be some way to mod the assist trophies into being playable… I wouldn’t put it past Sakarai to have secret button inputs or something in the game to allow the playing of them somehow, kind like how there are ways to play as masterhand under certain conditions. I miss gameshark
Holding down-back charges both Sonic Boom and Flash Kick, so Guile crouching is both optimal for his gameplay and a meme of sorts amongst Street Fighter players lol
I was going to comment the same thing.
*The turtle is eternal*
Nice
I believe Maximilian Dood caught on to that right away when they showed it off.
Classic Guile turtling.
i always thought that guile spamming projectiles from a squat was some kind of jab at guile players
@@pallukun
It is, because it's incredibly cheap even if it is an optimal mix up. By constantly crouch blocking, it effectively enables Guile to become a very annoying zoner that also doesn't immediately crumple if you do manage to get in like a lot of zoners since he's still fully functional in close range.
It effectively made the game no fun for anyone since it was a completely braindead zoning method with minimal requirements of having to think about when to use what. It turned the character into a two branch flowchart.
Are they close to you?
Yes -> Flash Kick
No -> Sonic Boom
Repeat
Small correction regarding Guile’s misinputed aerials. There is no sweetspot/sourspot because if you look closely, he’s doing a different kick. The weaker damaging one is his “Medium Kick” while the stronger one is his “Heavy Kick”. This also explains why his Flash Kick sometimes alternates between doing 16.9% and 17.6%. He’s doing two different versions of the same move, with the Heavy version doing marginally more damage and leaping higher into the air. Think of how if you tap Ken’s Shoryuken he does a regular uppercut that’s less powerful but more safe, and if you hold it he does the flaming version that’s more powerful but less safe.
I think its more likely a neutral heavy kick
Street Fighter doesn’t have directional Aerials, so for Guile there’d be no such thing as a “neutral” jumping kick
@@AshZucchini8168 That's not true. Most Street Fighter games have a different set of air normals depending on whether you persom a neutral jump vs a back/forward jump.
@@AshZucchini8168 you cant choose while in midair but some aerials vary depending on whether you did a diagonal jump or a nwutral jump
@@Scootapuff88 oh true, I forgot about that. Derp.
Guile's assist trophy is a tribute solely dedicated to what Street Fighter players call "down-backing"
It refers to when a player will just hold diagonally down and away from the opponent in order to charge both Sonic Boom and Flash Kick, since the directional input counts as both a down and a back input. This way, the player can camp while choosing whatever option fits their situation best - Sonic Booms for opponents that stay away, and Flash Kick when they decide to jump in with an unsafe option. Additionally, holding down and back like this also let's them block any incoming attacks, which the assist trophy also mirrors
:)
and the jump missinput only happens when you jump in, meaning, this Guile plays like a noob. Turtling all game, and messing up his anti airs.
@@Felipera_ That said, you can still do j.HK as an air-to-air to catch their jump, keep your opponent close, hold down-back through the jump, and start doing blockstrings into Sonics, or close HP > Flash Kick to confirm damage or whatever until you're back in zoning range.
Down-backing also allows you to crouch block as you charge, meaning opponents need to jump in or use an overhead, which is usually reactable. This further compliments his gameplan because he can anti-air jump ins with Flash Kick. Assist trophy Guile also crouch blocks and anti-airs with Flash Kick.
It seems likely Mythra's landing lag is just programmed to be 1/3 less than Pyra's.
Good catch
is that true for all her moves?
yeah that's what i was thinking. the whole character is like, fast moves and stuff, so it makes sense.
Quick but not as damaging
Yeah, Mithra is coded to be lighter than Pyra, so it makes sense that they just lazy'd it.
The guile fact is so cool.
So for a quick explanation about why he is always crouching, it's because in fighting games, most charge character have both a down charge and a back charge, in this case flash kick and sonic boom. And you can charge both at the same time by holding diagonal down back.
The joke here is that in sf2 projectiles were super broken, so guildes would spam it. And because the best way of avoiding projectiles is jumping above them, an anti air is a good counter against that.
Now the problem is that charge anti air specials are way stronger than motion anti air special. Because you can't use them on reaction.
But guile is sf2 didn't care, they spammed a broken projectile and charged the very move that counter the best way of dealing with this projectiles.
Now it's possible to catch him by jumping fast on him. Forced to use the move as soon as it charge you often see miss imput.
Now why there is no sonic boom miss imput, because that's easy to not do any and there is no urgency to do them.
Woah, OG meta
As a Guile player, I can confirm that I'm a flash kick bot
Projectiles werent the broken thing about guile in SF2. Flashkick also wasnt used at all. The prevailing guile strat was j. Roundhouse into forward heavy for an actually inescapable throw loop because of how the frame data worked out and the fact teching throws didnt exist. Guile and dhalsim both were rush down characters despite being designed to be zoners
@@coreydopson2030 there is a lot of sf2 version, we probably talk about 2 different ones.
@@captainphoton1693 and it's clear this Guile is meant to represent the average FGC scrub. Not fucking Daigo Umehara.
Just checked some of the game's code-
-The "nair" is actually two different moves:
---8hkair, which is 44 frames and does 15%
---9mkair, which is 34 frames and does 12%
-In addition, sonic boom is called "guileshot" and flash kick is "summersault"
-Interestingly, summersault also has a light and heavy variant with the same animations, one does 28%/26%, and the other 27%/25%
The names for the "nair" also are named after the respective attacks in SF2.
8hkair is his neutral jump heavy kick, and 9mkair is his diagonal jump medium kick.
For context, buttons in Street Fighter are usually shortened to an acronym, like MK for medium kick, or HP for heavy punch
And some games use "numpad" notation for the directions (so 8 would be up, 2 would be down, 4 and 6 would be back and forward, respectively)
@@nfsman3452 furthermore, the numbers mean directions. look at your keyboard's numpad.
8 is straight up (neutral jump)
9 is a diagonal (up + right jump)
it's a common notation in the FGC.
great catch you guys!
Thank you for checking the source!
@@nfsman3452 Oh of course Sakurai uses numpad notation.
@@nfsman3452 I like the inclusion of the 9mkair notation because it shows the Guile player has trouble consistently hitting the up direction when under pressure lol
If you play with assist trophies on, you can see in your “kills” at the menu after the match when an assist trophy gets a kill. It’s actually a very pretty logo for it too!
I thought it was when you kill an assist trophy
@@infiltrate6807 I don’t think so, considering in the game I played I killed two assist trophies but only had one assist trophy kill, and the other person killed my assist trophies twice as well but didn’t have any of the symbols at the end of the game, but I might be mistaken since it was over a week ago now
That intro caught me off guard lol. I thought I had misclicked on the video. Another great vid!
1:35 my guess is it happens because of the Stumble animation when you're standing at a ledge so even though Fox is attacking he's considered tilted.
I’ve seen the ivysaur up b vibrate on the final hit kill screen so much, I thought that was what it looked like normally! That’s so interesting that’s it’s just a slowed down thing
You actually perfectly nailed the two conditions you listed for misinputting Flash Kick. Great job!
I think Mythra’s decreased landing lag with Trampoline does actually have something to do with her being switchable with Pyra, but I think it might be more than that.
My theory is that Mythra’s “lag” values (end lag on moves, landing lag, etc) could have a unique multiplier when compared to Pyra. So that the moves could be easier to program. Let’s say Pyra’s the “definitive” character between the two. Mythra probably just has some multipliers in damage and lag and whatnot when performing the same move you would perform with Pyra and that could also apply to the landing lag on PAC-Man’s trampoline.
i wonder if he tried Dr Mario. He also has just twitched Stats
@@protaytoeguy3133 I think Dr. Mario is programmed as a different character entirely. Pyra and Mythra are explicitly designed around one another
@@tjackknife6590 As far as i know Dr Marios Stats have a multiplier which changes them from Marios
Thats also why if you look them up some of them have more decimal points
@@protaytoeguy3133 Interesting. Hopefully PKBeats sees this.
Here's a potential explanation for the missinput chance only happening when you're jumping; since Flash Kick is primarily used as an anti-air option, jumping at someone can put mental pressure on them to "react" to your jump and thus lead to the misinputs. So not only is it simulating human error in the inputs but also potentially simulating the reasons behind those errors.
Can we appreciate how every time Game and Watch appears in a video he gets a 9 on the scene cut
Edit: it showed up in the bingo, nice
Here’s a theory about Fox jab:
The broken Fox animation definitely has to do with his programmed IK (inverse kinematics), which determine how his foot reacts to slopes. They didn’t turn this off for Fox in this animation, which causes his foot to try to make contact with the ground. I’d try this with Cloud’s foot to see if it happens there too, as it also is a rapid jab that ends in a foot over the edge and has IK scripts attached.
As someone who does play traditional fighting games fairly often, that explanation of Guile's mis-inputs was pretty accurate. It would either be from not holding crouch-block (down + back, since holding back is how you guard in most 2D fighting games like Street Fighter) long enough for Flash Kick to be usable or from simply missing the timing.
Given how Guile's assist trophy works, I would assume it's caused by the former, where if the opponent is still nearby after the first Flash Kick and Guile attempts another it simply causes him to do a jumping heavy kick.
Fox's Legs broken by something called IK. The Rig tries to place the foot on an appropriate angle to/on the stage, so animations on slopes look good and don't clip.
Beyond the ledge, there is no geometry where the Rig could allign the foot by so it's rotated unnaturally.
If I had to guess about Fox’s foot breaking like that, I would hazard a guess and say Fox is trying to stand on the edge of the stage. You can see it in some fighters’ feet when they’re stood on slants or ledges that their foot kinda hangs off the surface in front of them, or it’s positioned to match the stage geometry. Like if you stood on a pipe in Yoshi’s Island Melee
I’m guessing Fox wants to both stand on the corner, and keep doing his rapid jab animation?
I will never get tire of G&W randomly 9ing people as the camera cuts away.
i've been busy playing splatoon for like 2 weeks but i still love these videos and smash
Maybe the fox foot thing is some inverse kinematics gone wrong? Who knows, homie's got dat osteoporosis
I suspect it's because it's still trying to put the feet on the ground, but the animation has an offset from the ground. So when the ground "disappears" (as he reaches over the ledge), wonky stuff happens
From the look of it, the misinput flashkick only happens when you're on the air. Notably, guile has 2 flashkicks he can use, one that in SF would be attatched to the light kick button and one for the heavy kick button. When you jump he does the heavy version, which has more ending lag but goes highern, hurts more, and presumably has more i frame coverage, but i doubt they went that far. The mis-input is a jump heavy kick, which would only come from heavy flashkick. This is probably because they wanted the misinput to still hit, and a jump light kick was one detail too much for an assist trophy.
That misinput fact made me go “OOOOO WHOA” out loud.
Also the barrels reusing the crate breaking animation is smart on the game dev side of things. Good shit 😎🤙
Bit of a weird fact: Mario’s F.L.U.D.D. actually functions as a stream of special projectiles, which can benefit reflected individually.
Did you know that if you grab then pummel Olimar with Yoshi, his pikmin will lag out every time he gets hit?
For the Fox rapid jab ender thing, my theory is that they forgot to turn off whatever code adjusts the feet angle, like for idle animations the legs will be different depending on the angle/elevation of the ground, I think they simply accidentally left that on during that animation and it's causing some wonkiness as a result.
I think Mythra is simply built different and thus able to recover from the red trampoline faster
These videos are so calming and therapeutic. I love them
The Mythra lag thing is really interesting, because it implies that Mythra literally just uses the same animation files as Pyra, just sped up by around 60% by default. I guess it makes sense, since there's no reason to have two animation files if the only difference is a speed up. This also implies that Pyra is the dominant one, which checks out.
what r u talking abt pyra's the submissive one :3
As someone who plays Smash and has recently gotten into Street Fighter, it really is amazing seeing just how faithful the Guile assist trophy is. It's such a perfect caricature of low-level Guile players, spamming nothing but Booms and Flash Kicks (one for if the opponent is far away, the other if they try to jump in/get close), constantly holding down-back to charge both moves while also blocking low (the safest way to block in SF since its only vulnerable to air attacks and certain slow and unrewarding ground moves (in fact I think the assist trophy in Smash is only vulnerable to air attacks when crouching to reference this, not sure though)), and of course, misinputting Flash Kick and getting jump roundhouse. In fact I think the reason he never misinputs while you're on the ground and only does it when you're jumping around is because a charge move like Flash Kick can't be used quickly on reaction due to the charge time, so if someone jumps at you and you aren't ready for it, your anti-air Flash Kick won't get enough charge in time and will come out as jump roundhouse (charge moves are also tricky to learn at first and this kind of misinput is common with lower level players)
Probably one of the most subtly detailed assist trophies in the game
I've just discoverded this. If you go to training mode with either Marth or Lucina, with a Meta Knight opponent (I tested and this does not work for Kirby) and spam side smash when training mode loads (it has to be in the training mode stage), the first 2 smash attacks won't connect, even though the third hit and so one do connect
(1:35) I think it has something to do with the game trying to make the feet stand on the ground when the character is standing. So it looks correct on slopes and such. Seems like it's still trying to do that during that attack.
You can angle Vine whip! Ive been playing the game since the beginning and never knew that!
Dude at 4:35 makes a pretty good point y'know
Fox's foot breaking looks like a classic IK problem. IK, or Inverse Kinematics, is the mathy stuff most games these days do to try and keep your character's feet planted on the ground in a natural looking way. This prevents (or at least mitigates) issues of steep slopes causing characters to have one foot "walking on air" and/or clipping into a slope. Another way to think of it like this: characters have a basic stand and walk cycle that doesn't account for slopes, and IK causes the character's foot and leg to sort of magnetize to the ground whenever they step/stand.
Normally, IK systems are designed so that they shut off during certain circumstances, but you almost always end up with weird edge cases that cause them to freak out. In this case, it looks like Fox's attack animation has its IK system activated on the attacking foot for the last jab; doing this over ledge cause the game to attempt to find the floor below Fox's foot, and then offset the foot by what is defined in the animation. Normally, this is fine. However, when the floor below Fox's foot is a kill volume waaaaaaaaay below the foot, the IK freaks out and tries to "plant" Fox's foot on that terrain.
tl;dr, Smash, like most modern games, uses some fancy maths to make walking and standing look good even on complex terrain, but it acts a little weirdly here and tries to orient Fox's foot in the wrong direction.
this is the best series
"Misinput! It was a Misinput!! YOU CALM DOWN!!" - Guile to the person who summoned him (probably)
It feels so weird seeing basic fighting game knowledge as a random fun fact.
Random Smash Fact: Sora will crush his balls when you use the first part of his Nair too close to the ground
Wholesome af to see pk learn about charge motions and shit in real time, 11/10 good research
plot twist : examinee is just a PKBeats alt for him to be able to just post his own facts while making everyone think it's a follower's submission so they have a "chance" to show up
That "Tears of the kingdom" bit.
omg lol
14:20 this feels so real I love it
The failed invincible Terry Rising tackle input that instead does Up Air can be remedied by turning of stick jump, although it will input up tilt instead
"i'm not really a hardcore gamer" pulls off the hardest garden i've ever seen
2:00 The home run bat still works at the freeze frame! I got a kill with it once and its still one of the highlights of my life
I'm honestly looking forward to the next original music you release more than a smash video. It was so good!
You forgot to test Mii Brawler's counter. Normally, it command-grabs you after triggering it, but what happens with Shadow's freeze frame and walking away..? Does it miss..? And if so, does it have an animation for that..?
Another counter to test might be Lucario's, just because it uses intangibility rather than the normal defensive collision.
Okay analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
Guile just shows how much Sakurai plays FGC games man
11:44 your “9 Judge Jump Cut” box should be checked off here
I didn't even know Guile could use a jump heavy kick in this game. Wonder what other street fighter inputs are attached to his character but never seen
Here’s a weird thing I found about Isabelle. If you use fishing rod down throw in the air it will still have the slam sound.
I like how the bingo card at 11:46 actually ends up with a bingo for the video
Which spaces?
@@lazyryan3766 top right to bottom left.
Top right (Mythra) at 11:46
Examinee623 throughout the video, first at 0:11
Speaking of… at 5:16
Game and Watch 9 jump cut at 3:03
And the training mode slowdown glitch with Ivysaur at 12:45
Aight I wanna say, you did a fantastic job explaining charge inputs. The biggest thing (which I might’ve just misheard) but the way they work is that you hold the opposite direction from the attack (Back… Forward for Sonic Boom / Down… Up for Flash Kick). You can also do a quarter-directional of the charging direction, meaning you can do Down + Back… Forward OR Down + Back… Forward. It just so happens that Back is also how you Guard, and Down-Back is how you low guard, which looks like a regular crouch until he’s either hit, or does the charge move.
Long story short, one of the safest way to do charge attacks, while also being unpredictable, is crouch-guarding.
Oh my goodness. People don’t know why guile crouches?
The one problem I have when it came to the shulk fact is that most "inform" videos that feature shulks counter never input his "true vision" variant of his counter, when he holds torwards the direction of a player he knows he's going to counter. I wanted to know if the true variant input could be inputted while in the forzen state.
My guess is that Mythra has some kind of multiplier on the lag for certain things to make her actions faster than Pyra's, and that the developers didn't test the interaction between that multiplier and Pac-Mans trampoline.
i'm glad you're happy for arlo
Here's an interesting fact :
In the Alpharad video titled "SUPER SMASH BROS ULTIMATE (EVO 2018)" at 3:50, Alpha scrolls through the Ridley alts commenting on there not being a Mecha-Ridley one. And indeed, in this version, the 2 Ridley eventually ends up with are replaced with normal skins that have the same colors as the Mecha-Ridley ones. Making Ridley the only Smash Ultimate character with more than 8 known alts
You meant more than 8 known alts ?
@@YounesLayachi Oh right, I got mixed up, thanks
Did anyone else notice that at 8:55 when PK was showing the damage for guile the first kick kinda looks like a forward air and the second one that does more damage looks like a back air? My guess is that it’s not a sweetspot like he said but that guile bair does more than his fair.
In street fighter, you can attack with three different strengths; light, medium and heavy. The kick that did more damage was simply his heavy kick, while the other one was a weaker variant.
@@masteroak7474 True. Adding on to that, in Street Fighter, you get different attacks during a neutral jump (straight up and down) than you do during a diagonal jump. That might also be a difference.
@@theosouris7063 Yeah I just assumed that the misinput version would be a neutral jump, since the input for flash kick is straight up.
My guess for the Fox weird animation is foot ik. Maybe the characters use ik to plant their foot against the ledge and since its over the ledge the ik is going off and its making the foot move towards the goal which would be the ledge. That's my only guess
wtf is that soldier taunt at the very end
woooooo smash!
Woohoo!
I actually noticed the Yoshi's Island fact myself somewhat close to the game's release, thanks to a spirit fight during which there's poison on the ground, and it is visible when using the camera to look off-screen
My best guess for Fox's foot causing that is that there's actually a thing added onto animations that's called like Slope Contour. Basically what it does is changes animations for characters feet/legs to match up with the shape of the ground, slope, platform etc. It can be removed in some cases but with the rapid jab being over the edge it's affecting that foot as it's trying to look flush/natural against the ground.
Examinee623 really is carrying this series
the fact that guile has all of that and then ALSO unique forward jump and neutral jump animations. for the assist trophy thats mostly just a joke about turtling. this game is so funny
I absolutely loved that moment when G&W hit a 9 and you cut it off that shit killed me
"With summer coming to a close"
It's been autumn for like, a whole month already!
Yes, roundhouse and heavy kick are interchangeable. However, people only use the term "roundhouse" when talking about street figthter, since that was what "heavy kick" was called back in street fighter 2 before the name was standardized.
Many people have pointed out that Guile's sitting down is a reference to how Guile mains in Street Fighter often hold down back in order to charge both Sonic Boom and Flash Kick, one which requires holding back for over a second, then forwards+punch, and one that requires holding down for over a second then up+kick. In fact, Guile as a whole is pretty much the most iconic 'Charge character'. This might be the reason for him being the assist trophy for Street Fighter, along with his playstyle being reliant on it, as opposed to someone like Chun Li, who's also a charge character, but tends to be a lot more aggressive
I’ve been playing street fighter for over 10 years and been playing smash for about the same casually. I kinda like wish there was more people willing to step outside their comfort zone because street fighter is such a dope series
1:35 when people animate characters they typically use curves and keyframe probaly moved the keyframe or something ,squishing curves, but not anchor points and didnt notice
If you ever watched Maximillian's reaction to Guile's assist trophy, he says "look at him charge that bullshit!" because down-back allows Guile to charge both his Sonic Boom (Back > Foward+Punch) and Flash Kick (Down > Up+Kick).
Since back is also block in Street Fighter, that's also why he guards attacks when you try to attack him.
Guile is what’s know as a Charge Character. They’re know for playing defensively and their signature “charge” input. Charge inputs are like you described, hold the stick in one direction, then flick the stick to the opposite direction and press the right button.
Guile’s Sonic Boom has you hold back flick forward and press punch, Flash Kick has you hold down flick up and press kick. This is the reason Guile is always crouching. Holding diagonally down and back counts as both holding down and back readying both sonic boom and flash kick. It’s the strat used by every Guile player is the real game.
I don't know why, but learning that about Gulie makes me want someone to make assist trophies as fighters- with their assist trophy moves somewhat.
I'm happy for Arlo too.
Some people never back down from a fight. Guile always backs down in a fight.
Maybe Mythra has a function that makes her frame data faster than Pyra. And since Pyra doesn't have any special fall moves, this was overlooked.
Try comparing their grab-release endlag.
Technically the Up Specials where you ascend and than descend do still have Special Fall, most easily seen if for example you use Mario's fluud to push them off the stage while they're still in the endlag of the attack
1: I Bet that's the game's IK system acting up. For those of you who don't know, Inverse Kinematics, or IK, is a kind of system used to make sure that a character's feet stay on the ground despite uneven footing, without having to go through and custom animate a ton of different walking positions; if you've ever stood a character right next to a ledge they can step up on, with one foot on the ground, and the other on the ledge, with their knee bent up, that's IK in action.
The Fox rapid Jab thing could be if Fox catches a character in the air, maybe a jump read, so that they are slightly lower then necessary
i think the guile thing comes from a lapse in his 'decision making' in the sense that he decides which move to use based on the opponents position. so when the opponent is jumping around, he tries to attack him and then 'changes his mind' so to speak, resulting in neither move coming out properly. i hope that explanation made sense. also explains why he never misinputs when idle.
11:47 well the other examples it looked like the landing lag was not finished with the animation and *snapped* to the idle. My immediate thought is that maybe mythra has the least landing lag in the entire game and so since her landing lag animation finishes before the pac man landing lag, she just goes into her idle. Unlike every other character who technically has their landing lag shortened.
The Guile Assist Trophy references a hated playstyle for him done by players where he crouches by the edge of the screen, throwing out Sonic Booms if the opponent is far away and using Flash Kick when they get close. Him misinputing Flash Kick references players often misinputing the move.
13:57 YOOOOOOOO I DIDN'T WATCH THE DIRECT
IB IS COMING TO SWITCH!??? THAT'S SO AWESOME
The only thing with mithra trampoline landing lag that I can think of is some sort of accommodation that was made with her special foresight ability, perhaps this special landing lag is a possible work around for a potential bug or game crashing interaction with it. Very strange one indeed.
An interesting fact about the Ivy section, as a competitive player i've seen many Ivy players do something like forward-air to nair to up-b as a kill confirm. And every time the game triggers the final spark Ivy's vine starts moving erratically. Always looked off to me.
when "shadowed" does soras counter still let projectiles pass through?
Seeing a Smash player trying to explain a traditional fighting game mechanic is hilarious. Dude really called a jumping kick a Nair
regarding the Fox fact at the beginning, i think it might be an issue with the Inverse Kinematics system smash uses to keep a character's feet on the ground even on slopes. with there being no ground beneath fox's foot, the system freaks out and, in the process, turns his foot in a weird way to try and compensate
Small fact: you can activate a shooting item by flicking the right stick like you would with a smash attack
Random fact: the strong throw spirits increases the damage of zairs
Welcome to Random Sma- ...
_Today we shall go on a in-depth journey. To understand just why and how. _*_Fox broke his friggin' foot!_*
0:52 EW LOL THAT SOUND EFFECT
Ooooh, the EarthBound healing sound effect!
Wait, what if Guile uses that kick when he is in the air and has an enemy nearby? Maybe he can't use flash kick or sonic boom in the air so they gave him a move for when that happens, which is rare to see because of Guile's will to stay on the floor, crouched
That's literally just how Street Fighter is. Your specials have to specify "Air OK" to do them mid-air, like Ryu and Ken's Tatsus or Akuma's air fireballs. Guile can hit a button and that's it. He's got two specials, and he has to stay grounded; aerial charge specials are part of why Vatista from Under Night is literally the best character in her game.
With Guile, his air buttons are just to challenge other jumps, then do actual combos into Sonic Hurricane or Double Flash.
There’s a second reason holding down back is useful even just for sonic boom, and it’s to stay in place while charging instead of walking back.
my only thought for why mythra would have an altered landlag for pac man's trampoline is maybe it's because she is tied directly to pyra, including stats, moves, and everything, even more so that pokemon trainer, her landlag is determined by a multiplier rather than just a value
Also there has to be some way to mod the assist trophies into being playable… I wouldn’t put it past Sakarai to have secret button inputs or something in the game to allow the playing of them somehow, kind like how there are ways to play as masterhand under certain conditions. I miss gameshark
Sad I don’t have Twitter to give suggestions.