Before he ever played rock and roll, Mickey Hart won the national championship in rudimentary drumming. Which is nothing but timekeeping. The greatest drummers from all over the world played in percussion bands with him. Because he was and is brilliant.
I see a lot of shit being talked about Mickey. Evidently Billy liked playing with him as did some of the best percussionists in the world. Airto Moreira, Zakir Hussain, Sikiru Adepoju, Giovanni Hidalgo to name a few. I am not saying that he is the best drummer around. At this point I think he may not be aging particularly well in his playing. What I probably appreciate most about him is his work in turning people on to the power of drumming and rhythm to heal. His work preserving music from around the globe through the collaboration with the Smithsonian is definitely to be applauded.
When Mickey was on top of his game he was phenomenal. Since the original GD ended Mickey's other interests was his priority and hence his skills were not maintained and he is not the drummer he was. Nothing against Billy, but the GD had greater power with two drummers. Mickey played in a way that was complementary with two drummers. If Mickey was the only drummer his style would have transitioned to more of a Billy style. keep in mind that Mickey taught Billy in the early days and helped to make Billy the great drummer he is. Mickey also taught Micheal Shrieve of Santana. Anyway my 2 cents. Ron
Let me qualify, not lame but the drumming got simplified over the years. Just a natural transition and believe it needed to happen to unclutter a bit. All subjective. Bottom line Mickey was a phenomenal drummer when he was 100%. RIP Butch , but you showed your jealousy.
@@ronaldschulman4448 Trucks didn't need to be jealous. Billy K is a saint for putting up with Hart's aimless pounding. Hart can't keep time; never could.
I was lucky enough to see Micky and Billy in L.A. with the Dead at their prime and I assure you were "2 clocks" in perfect sync side by side , beat by beat. Jazz people often call this "swinging".
An unfortunate misstatement from Butch Trucks their styles were completely different. Mickey Harts post dead work with Tibetan Buddhist Monks has to be seen to be believed
This is not the first time I have heard drummers talk shit about the Grateful Dead, the first one I ever heard was Dallas Master on very late Night AM Talk Radio who played on the CSNY album's but I am not sure of what else he has done I am sure he has some credits, but I really pissed him off when I called in and called him out for maybe being a bit jealous? It was a time in the late 80's when it came out that the Dead were the top touring act or something along those lines. I think this is a little of the same yes Butch trucks was a kickass drummer I saw him with the Almonds in their heyday of the early 70's, but the Allman's Don't get the respect that the Dead does so I think it ticks some of these guys off
It's absurd to say that Mickey can't keep time or can't play. It's embarrassing to hear Trucks and whoever the other idiot is spewing such nonsense. Mickey is a clock. He just didn't function as the clock in the Dead; that was BK's role. But his sense of time is flawless. I've seen Mickey play hundreds of times with the GD and his own bands, and never once has that motherfucker missed a single beat
Yes that was trying to be insulting. I've been mad at Mickey for taking up with that Bohemian Grove club but I wouldn't lie about his playing. The best compliment to me about a drummer is "he's got perfect timing " Why did Butch hate Hart? Screw the interview guy he showed how stupid he is.
@@scottdoyle9503 I'll have to pass that along to all the artists I've backed up on stage and in the studio. Sounds like the kind of thing they should know about.
Ive noticed a trend, where the blue haired dead fans of like 65 and up and are down on Mickey. I am an Xer, and feel that Dead peaked from 89 to 92. So you can understand my perspective. Let's see what time will tell.
@@bobfuller5991 Saw my first show in 1971, so I lean towards the pre-Brent Dead, but I do love music from every era and incarnation of the band. All is good.
every era is great... the dark stars from like 69 and 70 with TC are Fire as fuck with jerry's harder sg sound... and the working mans/AB era is gorgeous. and the live shit from 72-74 is redic. But to the same token the brent years are so beautiful because its so easy to go back and watch how much jerry loved playing with him and it sounds great vocally and his keys playing is so passionate, and vince and bruce killed it too, and even dead and co is fine as fuck(even though everyone is going to say it's too slow)... all is good for all different reasons. this whole year by year in fighting is not my bag man. You like them or you don't. as for butch trucks i think he clearly is negative on mickey for some reason, but he is full of shit about his playing.
Listen to the Dead Winterland recordings from 1974. Hart wasn't there. Kreutzmann was by himself and he sounded great. He was covering a lot of ground.
I've been listening to planet drum CD today N I really love the sound the very beautifully sounding percussion woven through.hey what do I know.bug I know when something sounds N feels good.no concrete in my ears.!!!!!
I don't idolize anyone, it a waste of time...But look who's still standing! It would have been a great moment to get all 4 of these drummers together and play in the band with them.
Butch saying Mickey cant play, proves how blocked off he ended up being from the power source for the very music he himself was playing. Hate that things ended the way they did for Butch. Not only was the attitude towards life different between those two drummers, it ended up being the deciding factor in who was going to have more longevity, within the nusic and on esrth as a human period. Mickeys life and character turned out to be more nurturing for a longer life and longer career. Butchs contributions to drumming as a whole will not rival Mickey's contributions, as much as he apparently beleived himself to be superior.
It boils down to money. Trucks owed the IRS and there was no returning from that. Trucks lost almost everything and it soured him greatly. Mickey has never really had to worry about money issues which made his life much more comfortable and happy.
Have heard people talk all kinds of trash about all aspects of Dead Music for years. Sour grapes, mostly. I think any incarnation of the Dead could play circles around just about anybody else.
Read Kreutzmann's book, he wasn't happy when Mickey made his way back to the band in 1974. And, Butch blew his brains out when the IRS crawled up his ass. Give it a rest Jeremy.
@@FoolishPrankster I also read mr. K's book...the GD with only Billy was a nimble,capable beast, able to turn on a dime instead of lumbering thru,like with Mickey.Still, I like Mr. Hart, he is an excellent percussionist and ethnomusicologist.
Micky is a percussionist. Mongo was a percussionist. Mongo could not drive a Coltrane band. Micky couldn’t have carried the music in71-74. It’s an issue of taste not talent imo. Gregg ragged on the dead in his book as well. Should add- never head a Dead member rag on any of the Brothers.
My favorite era of the Dead is '71-'74 when Mickey was out, always has been. There was something so different about the feel of each and every song. I'm not saying '66-'70, and '75-'80 weren't also great, cuz they were. But man Billy's drumming was outstanding when he was able to cut loose and explore his jazz influence more.
I'm a musician, not a drummer. Mickey may not be the best drum kit player in a one drummer context. Scott has a point that Mickey's work with the New Riders was sloppy. It should be acknowledged that he played with them in 70-71, during a very low point in his life when he was deeply depressed over his father embezzling the band's money, was apparently using too many drugs to function at his usual level musically, and wound up having to leave the Grateful Dead for five years. As a percussionist, Mickey is creative and intellectually curious. 71-72 Dead is undeniably lean and mean, but I generally prefer the band with both drummers. Mickey adds texture, dynamics, and power.
He played good enough for jerry garcia. So no matter what anyone else thinks he played enough to be part of one of the longest surviving musical acts that's ever existed.
Mickey pumped power into the GD beginning in the early 80s. His peak was 89-90--these were the years of "power Dead." Mickey played a huge role in creating this particular high point for the Dead. This was not the slinky-groove Dead of the early to mid 70s--that was all Billy K!! This was BIG powerful Dead, rolling thunder and lightning through stadiums and large coliseums. Mickey helped to power this machine. Without him, the band would not have musically crescendoed like they did in 89 and 90...
Yeah, 88/89/90 was their Godzilla-crushing-Tokyo era as they laid waste to arenas across the country. What a great time to be a deadhead through that last big peak of their music performances. "Downhill from Here" indeed
@@martyhopkirk6826 I like different eras for different reasons. Yes, the early 70s/post-Mickey years are fantastic, possibly even their best ...but Mickey helped them get there. Before he joined they basically just played a lot of blues, R&B, and folk grooves in 4/4/ time. It was Mickey who introduced the to the odd-time rhythmic weirdness, and that helped birth songs like the Eleven, Estimated, LL>Supplication, UJB, and on and on. Had he not joined, they may have just been another flash-in-the-pan remnant of the bygone age of the late 60s. They had most of the ingredients in place, but Mickey Hart and Robert Hunter were the catalysts that really brought the whole thing to life
@@barclaydonaldson8863 that's funny, I find early 80s hard to listen to because they're all so coked out, and clean post-coma/pre-relapse Jerry from 87-90 is way better.
I thought Mickey was fantastic in the late 60s. What would those Dark Stars be without the guiro? After he came back in 1976, their roles weren't so developed to complement, but overlapped a lot, which didn't really serve the music as well as it could have. I remember being at 5/7/77 (my second show) in the balcony looking down at them and realizing that it was Billy that provided the swing and groove. It would have been very cool if he just played percussion. However, I saw a few drums segments, especially in the late 70s and early 80s, which took flight, largely due to Mickey. He kept bringing out really cool sounds and the Rhythm Devils were all new. Sometimes, OTOH, it was just two guys banging on things.
The Allman Brothers Band were fantastic, but Butch was playing the same songs night after night on tour. Mickey plays a completely different show night after night on tour. End of discussion & criticism rejected as far as I'm concerned.
I know one thing, when I'm tripping and listening to Dead shows on headphones, the WORST thing to do is focus on Mickey. He is usually so off time, it's actually pretty ridiculous. Other than his contributions during Drumz, I'm not sure what he was there for, Billy was far and away the better drummer.
Butch and Jaimoe were tighter because the Allmans' music was tighter. From Day One (1965, pre-Mickey), Garcia and Lesh always prioritized exploration and risk (thus the live-album title "Without A Net"). They weren't going for 'tight'. There are certain songs (The Other One, Franklin's Tower, Music Never Stopped, Fire on the Mountain) that just wouldn't work without Mickey. The only mistake he made was NOT playing the güiro on "Dark Star" after he came back in '74. It needed it.
This is so stupid. Trucks couldn't, if was given a million dollars, have helmed 17 records filled with great musical moments, and percussion acumen. Mysterium Tremendum is one of the best and better than a few Allman records, though I love them.
Mickey served as a drummer in the Airmen of Note, an elite big band unit that traveled through Europe playing American military classics. And we all know how loose the military is on things so no Butch he obviously can't play.?
I prefer the GD with Bill alone (70-74) but the idea that Hart--who came out of military/marching/rudimental drumming and went on to play with the greatest drummers and percussionists on the planet--can't play or keep time is some of the most ridiculously ignorant crap I've ever heard.
I see both sides to this issue. I think the drum sound from 72-74 when mickey was gone was their best. However, mickey did some really cool out there stuff with the dead especially in the late 80’s. Seeing Dead and Co recently they have him mixed low for a reason. Mickey is more of an experimental musician, he shines during drums/space, which also is of course the worst part of the show.
I saw a lot of Dead shows. I still listen to a lot of live recordings. I always felt that the Dead's drummers cluttered up the sound quite a bit. You really notice the difference when listening to the Gacia Band, too. Much less cluttered. I wouldn't say "Micky can't play" but I do believe that both Jaimoe and Butch were a better combo. And, of course, there are drummers who are head and shoulders above those 2.
Long time Dead Head but I'd have to agree. As a combination, I preferred Butch and Jaimoe. I thought they were a better combination. I thought they drove the Brothers are rhythmically to a greater effect and heights than did Billy and Mickey. Maybe it was the jazz background Butch and Jaimoe shared. Mickey could overpower the music with a steady, hard thumping sound. My favorite Dead years were 71-74 without him personally.
12/5/1971 is the only proof needed to show the mickey was never needed. Billy proved himself this night. Plus Pig and Keith on the same stage this night, too.
Makes sense... the Grateful Dead, most successful touring band ever, hired a drummer that couldn’t play!! Lmfao. Who are these people that talk like this!!! Obviously no idea wat they’re talking about
That wasn't a band who hired people in the traditional sense until 1979. He just fell into the band in the 60s and there he was. The GD also didn't prove any kind of acumen in their hiring practice later on. Vince Welnick, God bless him, was not the right guy.
If Butch Trucks said Mickey Hart can't play, then that's an backwards endorsement of Hart's ability to my ears. I would never consider Trucks' opinion to be worthy of more than a moment's consideration. If I recall correctly, Trucks also denigrated Ringo Starr as a drummer. Butch Trucks was an a-hole in a lot of ways, and he died like one too.
@@mikesavoca7584 Well, if you're referring to the fact that Butch Trucks played with the ABB for 50 years without missing a gig, well, yeah I guess it's true that he's the only drummer that band had who could make that claim. But there would be another drummer who could have made that claim, Butch's Brother drummer Jaimoe, if Butch hadn't allowed Jaimoe to be fired. I'm not saying that Butch fired Jaimoe, but he allowed it to happen. Kind of an asshole move, don't you think?
And mere mortals torment. Mickey is a Shaman. Plays to the heart and history has proven his merit long ago. Piss in the wind may feel good for a moment, but... Butch Who?... lol. He and Mickey Hart are Both great skin beaters.
He doesn't keep time well. I've been a deadhead for 48 years. I've seen them with and without Mickey. Billy is the drummer. Mickey jerks off. Listen to 71-74. Billy kills it.
No, he's not joking. Mickey is a terrible drummer. The Dead's best years were without Mickey. He absolutely ruined the Dead's chemistry when he returned after the "hiatus" in '75. In the '67 to '71 years his contributions were tolerable because he was there to add "color" to the rhythm. When he returned in '75 the rhythm became the "dinosaur stomp" as both drummers played in lockstep with each other, killing the Dead's "swing" and bogging down the band's ability to "turn the corner" in jams. '71 thru '74 are far and away the best years of the Dead. Bill Kruetzmann is one of the best rock drummers of all time. Mickey is a poser.
David Hoefler Okay, and in my opinion 69-71 are the best years of the Dead. What makes yours more valid than mine? You say it as if it's fact, and that you know what suited the band best. Hart REALLY ruined their chemistry, seeing as how much of a failure they were once he returned, right? Blues For Allah? A flop. Look, even I prefer the early shit, but to say everything you've said is ridiculous.
Check out the video of the Dead in Egypt '78. Billy broke his arm riding a horse so even though he was playing he really wasn't. As far as I know its the only time when Mickey was the sole drummer. Bertha rocked. Good Lovin rocked. Mickey rocked. Mickey is definitely an eclectic drummer. He used toms like they were snares (much like Keith Moon used a ride symbol like a high hat) and his rolls are disjointed like Ringo Starr's but "he can't play"? C'mon... Also, we're talking about a band that has a lead guitar player in it that plays guitar like some banjo player of the future who crash landed on Mars because he was too high to find his way back to Earth. I won't even get into Phil Lesh. The only thing that was egregiously bad, out of tune and out of place in the Dead's playing was Bobby's slide solos. That's my 2 cents.
Have you ever heard them in 77? Some say, and I agree, that their peak was 77. Cornell often referred to as their greatest show ever. Mickey is a percussionist, not a drummer. He adds depth and flavor to the band, and also works closely with Bill to create a feeling.
At least Mickey didn't beat and murder his wife. I know that the Allman Brothers Band, even though I love ALL their music, were not always good people. I met Warren Haynes many years ago. I asked him about his relationship with Dicky Betts and he said "I wouldn't piss on that a-hole if he were on fire". Obviously Dicky, Butch and Greg were not necessarily great role models, but all of them brought lots of joy to many, including myself. RIP Butch and Greg. I know that they are jamming with Duane and Woody somewhere in the afterlife.
I love how these dudes are dogging Mickey. Mickey. Who are these guys? I mean sure, it's fine. Everyone's got an opinion. But to say that someone who is in one of the biggest groups of all time "can't play" is just dumb.
Butch was being an asshole here but honestly he was right, the dead NEVER needed Mickey, the Bill only era between '72 and '74 was the best, he was always a lot more restrained when he was paired with Mickey but during those years he was free and expressive and at the peak of his creativity. Now as far as Mickey is concerned i wouldn't say he can't play, but he's just an alright drummer and nothing more
Seen them play a bunch now. He looks like he’s struggling to play everything. Thank god they have a real drummer. Never been impressed with anything he’s done. He’s like Ringo. People praise but they don’t realize how mediocre he is as “drummer/percussionists”
mickey loves what he´s doing, can keep fairly good time, and is also more thinking to express himself and work on sounds. butch shot himself. mickeys still around.
Thank you Butch. Truth hurts sometimes...When Mickey left the Dead, the music was better. Like Donna, Mickey was an unnecessary appendage. Neither of those two ever added to the music (IMO) but frequently subtracted...I don't need to hear Donna screeching over live Dead ever again...and Mickey had 4,273 drums from around the world in his kit...Never once made me feel a damn thing with any of them. Billy is all the drummer the Dead needed. Period. Imagine if Mickey's dad hadn't taken all of that money...
this is just silly. Mickey was the one who brought the rhythmic weirdness. Before he joined, the Dead were just doing a lot of long blues jams, R&B grooves, and folk stuff in 4/4. It was Mickey who really introduced them to odd time material. Without him there's no The Eleven, or St Stephen, or Estimated, or LL/Supplication, or Greatest Story, or Unbroken Chain, or Uncle John's Band, and on and on... Get a grip. Mickey was the shit.
I really didn’t mind Donna at all but with her also was Kieth on piano which added a Bill Evens nuance to the feeling since he didn’t ever play the B3 (with extreme rare exception) so that sound also added to those pinnacle years referred to as the “72” era and I think Bill & jer specifically went to a jazz fusion feel in their vamps. This is Not to call into indictment Bret’s contributions at all as I believe he was equally responsible for what was magical and stunning about the Dead. I never questioned Mickey either until more recent years and the more I learned about the situation - including the emperor where’s no clothes syndrome among fans regarding the Mickey question, the more I became disenchanted with Mickey
Listen to a version of The Eleven from 68-69 and tell me Mickey isn't an integral part of the bands sound. Or Fire on the Mountain... or Terrapin Station...
Fooey Yu well believe it or not If you must know I was a hour early for work as usual, so while I was chilling having a cup of coffee I saw this UA-cam video on Facebook book so I thought I would check it out. So I did and left a comment/opinion, in defense of one of my favorite drummers. Oh and I never messed with acid. But thanks for caring and hurling shallow, narrow minded comments my way. Hope you have a healthy happy new year.
This didn't age well did it? Rest easy butch but, this statement was whack as it gets saying Mickey sucks essentially. Hate to say but he outlasted and outshined butch in all facets of drumming. More so as being a good human too, butch was not on Mickey's level ever.
Can't disagree. Mickey had his contributions like Fire On The Mountain and later drums/space, but he was mostly a distraction like Donna. The Dead were way better drum-wise without Mickey. Most of the time I'd rather hear 30 minutes of songs than the drums/space thang anyways. The 72-74 prime Dead was prime in a big part because Mickey wasn't clanking around, and Bill could actually play.
@@MrMattyswift For instance the latest Dave's Pick 4/15/78 is a good example. Listen to the Brown Eyed Women train wreck, or the irritating cowbell doing, doing, doing, through Let It Grow. I mean sometimes he contributes, but many times he just clutters the sound. The Aoxomoxoa era I found the interplay between Billy and Mickey much more symboitic. Just my two cents.
Saw the Dead many times in the 70s. Hart was never with them. My impression was that his "contribution" was overrated in the past. Billy K on the other hand was and is a dynamo of locomotive drumming much like Butch T with The Allmans.
I'm sorry but I just got done listening to a live set and not always...but this time, Mickey's playing was just obnoxious. They were a more tight, coherent band without him. Also, just my own taste, but the sound quality of his toms are terrible. I guess he doesn't use skins on the bottom or something. Just a floppy obnoxious mess.
Both these guys came out of the only two jam improv bands in the day. This lad should know better. Homes on you Butch, Micky is a percussionist first and for most. Sorry but Butch lost all respect from me. NFA
Back inna day the word was the Deads 'new' drummer was a California Rudiments Champion drummer. Award winning. All I know is, after he joined the band, the Dead's sound became sluggish.
I as a long time fan of the Dead, or Dead Head if you will, can like any normal with hearing and vision, agree with Butch here. Mickey should have never been in the band. Billy was more than capable of handling the duties all by his lonesome. He did after Mickey left briefly in the early 70's where he showed us all what a swinging jazzy he was. Just riding that rhythm to perfection. Mickey had/has no rhythm. He had/has no coordination. He was useless to me but further proof that the Dead was a great big family cause they allowed even their worthless comrade cousin to stick around even though he really contributed nothing.
I think the period between '68, on Anthem of the Sun in particular, into LIve/Dead and up until Mickey left he made great contributions. There are many examples of where Kreutzman held his own as the sole drummer, and '73 is often mentioned as one of the best years in their history. So there are plenty of arguments made for Mickey and what he brought to the band, but there's an awful lot of real exciting music he wasn't present for. What I really think would have been a cool pairing would have been Kreutzman and Joe Russo.
cactaceous Having watched a bunch of live Dead clips, I do think that Mickey was an odd drummer. His style seemed almost more like one of those Japanese Taiko drummers (almost rigid and hammer-like). In the studio, Bill K was mostly utilized for drum tracks and Mickey may have done overdub Percussion. Anyway, the band must have wanted him around even though he wasn't necessary. Maybe they liked the spectacle of the double drummer.
Before he ever played rock and roll, Mickey Hart won the national championship in rudimentary drumming. Which is nothing but timekeeping. The greatest drummers from all over the world played in percussion bands with him. Because he was and is brilliant.
Mickey wasn’t really the drummer he was the percussionist
And Phil wasn't the guitarist he was the bassist.
Exactly
Some people can't play.
Others can't listen.
Micky's parts suck. Bill should have been left alone.
In the end, does it work? Both the Allmans and the Dead have nothing to prove, they’re both legends, how they did it internally is how they did it
On the other hand, Neil Peart had a lot of respect for Mickey
Mickey is a percussionist not a rock drummer.
I see a lot of shit being talked about Mickey. Evidently Billy liked playing with him as did some of the best percussionists in the world. Airto Moreira, Zakir Hussain, Sikiru Adepoju, Giovanni Hidalgo to name a few. I am not saying that he is the best drummer around. At this point I think he may not be aging particularly well in his playing. What I probably appreciate most about him is his work in turning people on to the power of drumming and rhythm to heal. His work preserving music from around the globe through the collaboration with the Smithsonian is definitely to be applauded.
He is not aging in his playing, it's eternal
In kreutzmans book he said he liked it better when mickey was gone & he didn't want him back in the band
When Mickey was on top of his game he was phenomenal. Since the original GD ended Mickey's other interests was his priority and hence his skills were not maintained and he is not the drummer he was. Nothing against Billy, but the GD had greater power with two drummers. Mickey played in a way that was complementary with two drummers. If Mickey was the only drummer his style would have transitioned to more of a Billy style. keep in mind that Mickey taught Billy in the early days and helped to make Billy the great drummer he is. Mickey also taught Micheal Shrieve of Santana. Anyway my 2 cents. Ron
The drummers sucked ass sometimes. Popcorn machine. After the '70's mostly.
Yes you make a point, sometimes they could be lame
Let me qualify, not lame but the drumming got simplified over the years. Just a natural transition and believe it needed to happen to unclutter a bit. All subjective. Bottom line Mickey was a phenomenal drummer when he was 100%. RIP Butch , but you showed your jealousy.
@@ronaldschulman4448 Trucks didn't need to be jealous. Billy K is a saint for putting up with Hart's aimless pounding. Hart can't keep time; never could.
I was lucky enough to see Micky and Billy in L.A. with the Dead at their prime and I assure you were "2 clocks" in perfect sync side by side , beat by beat. Jazz people often call this "swinging".
An unfortunate misstatement from Butch Trucks their styles were completely different.
Mickey Harts post dead work with Tibetan Buddhist Monks has to be seen to be believed
Butch is talking rock n roll. Keeping time.
This is not the first time I have heard drummers talk shit about the Grateful Dead, the first one I ever heard was Dallas Master on very late Night AM Talk Radio who played on the CSNY album's but I am not sure of what else he has done I am sure he has some credits, but I really pissed him off when I called in and called him out for maybe being a bit jealous? It was a time in the late 80's when it came out that the Dead were the top touring act or something along those lines. I think this is a little of the same yes Butch trucks was a kickass drummer I saw him with the Almonds in their heyday of the early 70's, but the Allman's Don't get the respect that the Dead does so I think it ticks some of these guys off
Dallas Taylor. Maybe that’s what pissed him off?
Mickey was not the timekeeper in the Dead, Bill was. Mickey added the shamanistic sounds and these added tremendously to the drum sound of the band.
Lol
Not the timekeeper but still has to keep time.
@@bob733333 boo hoo, Bob. Hope you can can over this by your 85th birthday coming up shortly.
Funny you should say that because I just watched an interview with BK and he says he’s the worst time keeper
Dude there are multiple videos of bill saying he sucked at timing and he never approached playing the drums as timing
It's absurd to say that Mickey can't keep time or can't play. It's embarrassing to hear Trucks and whoever the other idiot is spewing such nonsense. Mickey is a clock. He just didn't function as the clock in the Dead; that was BK's role. But his sense of time is flawless. I've seen Mickey play hundreds of times with the GD and his own bands, and never once has that motherfucker missed a single beat
It’s like saying Bob can’t play guitar like Jerry. Exactly!!! They all had their own style n techniques. That’s wat made The Grateful Dead so amazing
Oh, so you don't an ear for time, got it
Yes that was trying to be insulting. I've been mad at Mickey for taking up with that Bohemian Grove club but I wouldn't lie about his playing. The best compliment to me about a drummer is "he's got perfect timing " Why did Butch hate Hart? Screw the interview guy he showed how stupid he is.
@@scottdoyle9503 I'll have to pass that along to all the artists I've backed up on stage and in the studio. Sounds like the kind of thing they should know about.
@christheghostwriter Nah, that's fine - the rub is that most folks don't mind all that much and would rather roll with it, the Dead sure did!
Ignorance and Jealousy at it’s finest
I saw Mickey clapping his shoes together. He keeps time just fine.
were you being sarcastic?
@@bobfuller5991 Yes I was! I saw Mickey on a live stream last night and he was on fire!
Ive noticed a trend, where the blue haired dead fans of like 65 and up and are down on Mickey. I am an Xer, and feel that Dead peaked from 89 to 92. So you can understand my perspective. Let's see what time will tell.
@@bobfuller5991 Saw my first show in 1971, so I lean towards the pre-Brent Dead, but I do love music from every era and incarnation of the band. All is good.
every era is great... the dark stars from like 69 and 70 with TC are Fire as fuck with jerry's harder sg sound... and the working mans/AB era is gorgeous. and the live shit from 72-74 is redic. But to the same token the brent years are so beautiful because its so easy to go back and watch how much jerry loved playing with him and it sounds great vocally and his keys playing is so passionate, and vince and bruce killed it too, and even dead and co is fine as fuck(even though everyone is going to say it's too slow)... all is good for all different reasons. this whole year by year in fighting is not my bag man. You like them or you don't. as for butch trucks i think he clearly is negative on mickey for some reason, but he is full of shit about his playing.
I like his playing and his style.
Mickys playing is mind blowing..
To soon?
Listen to the Dead Winterland recordings from 1974. Hart wasn't there. Kreutzmann was by himself and he sounded great. He was covering a lot of ground.
I've been listening to planet drum CD today N I really love the sound the very beautifully sounding percussion woven through.hey what do I know.bug I know when something sounds N feels good.no concrete in my ears.!!!!!
I don't idolize anyone, it a waste of time...But look who's still standing! It would have been a great moment to get all 4 of these drummers together and play in the band with them.
Yeah, dude so what are you going to play?
Butch saying Mickey cant play, proves how blocked off he ended up being from the power source for the very music he himself was playing. Hate that things ended the way they did for Butch. Not only was the attitude towards life different between those two drummers, it ended up being the deciding factor in who was going to have more longevity, within the nusic and on esrth as a human period. Mickeys life and character turned out to be more nurturing for a longer life and longer career. Butchs contributions to drumming as a whole will not rival Mickey's contributions, as much as he apparently beleived himself to be superior.
It boils down to money. Trucks owed the IRS and there was no returning from that. Trucks lost almost everything and it soured him greatly. Mickey has never really had to worry about money issues which made his life much more comfortable and happy.
Well, wherever he may find himself, Mickey is pretty much the coolest cat in the room...thats all I need..
Have heard people talk all kinds of trash about all aspects of Dead Music for years. Sour grapes, mostly. I think any incarnation of the Dead could play circles around just about anybody else.
Read Kreutzmann's book, he wasn't happy when Mickey made his way back to the band in 1974. And, Butch blew his brains out when the IRS crawled up his ass. Give it a rest Jeremy.
@@FoolishPrankster I also read mr. K's book...the GD with only Billy was a nimble,capable beast, able to turn on a dime instead of lumbering thru,like with Mickey.Still, I like Mr. Hart, he is an excellent percussionist and ethnomusicologist.
Micky is a percussionist. Mongo was a percussionist. Mongo could not drive a Coltrane band. Micky couldn’t have carried the music in71-74. It’s an issue of taste not talent imo. Gregg ragged on the dead in his book as well. Should add- never head a Dead member rag on any of the Brothers.
My favorite era of the Dead is '71-'74 when Mickey was out, always has been. There was something so different about the feel of each and every song. I'm not saying '66-'70, and '75-'80 weren't also great, cuz they were. But man Billy's drumming was outstanding when he was able to cut loose and explore his jazz influence more.
I'm a musician, not a drummer. Mickey may not be the best drum kit player in a one drummer context. Scott has a point that Mickey's work with the New Riders was sloppy. It should be acknowledged that he played with them in 70-71, during a very low point in his life when he was deeply depressed over his father embezzling the band's money, was apparently using too many drugs to function at his usual level musically, and wound up having to leave the Grateful Dead for five years. As a percussionist, Mickey is creative and intellectually curious. 71-72 Dead is undeniably lean and mean, but I generally prefer the band with both drummers. Mickey adds texture, dynamics, and power.
He cant play? But he does sir, a whole helluva lot.
Butch’s timekeeping also left a lot to be desired
mickey is fucking awesome!
He played good enough for jerry garcia. So no matter what anyone else thinks he played enough to be part of one of the longest surviving musical acts that's ever existed.
Garcia said they sound like a popcorn machine. Garcia definitely complained.
@@bob733333 A pop corn machine can sound great. Look up John Cage, beotch.
Mickey pumped power into the GD beginning in the early 80s. His peak was 89-90--these were the years of "power Dead." Mickey played a huge role in creating this particular high point for the Dead. This was not the slinky-groove Dead of the early to mid 70s--that was all Billy K!! This was BIG powerful Dead, rolling thunder and lightning through stadiums and large coliseums. Mickey helped to power this machine. Without him, the band would not have musically crescendoed like they did in 89 and 90...
Yeah, 88/89/90 was their Godzilla-crushing-Tokyo era as they laid waste to arenas across the country. What a great time to be a deadhead through that last big peak of their music performances. "Downhill from Here" indeed
A very accurate and succinct analysis. I happen to prefer the slinky-groove Dead, but what you say is spot on.
@@martyhopkirk6826 I like different eras for different reasons. Yes, the early 70s/post-Mickey years are fantastic, possibly even their best ...but Mickey helped them get there. Before he joined they basically just played a lot of blues, R&B, and folk grooves in 4/4/ time. It was Mickey who introduced the to the odd-time rhythmic weirdness, and that helped birth songs like the Eleven, Estimated, LL>Supplication, UJB, and on and on. Had he not joined, they may have just been another flash-in-the-pan remnant of the bygone age of the late 60s.
They had most of the ingredients in place, but Mickey Hart and Robert Hunter were the catalysts that really brought the whole thing to life
@@christheghostwriter ..late 80 s...and 1990.s....dead is very hard to listen 2
@@barclaydonaldson8863 that's funny, I find early 80s hard to listen to because they're all so coked out, and clean post-coma/pre-relapse Jerry from 87-90 is way better.
I thought Mickey was fantastic in the late 60s. What would those Dark Stars be without the guiro? After he came back in 1976, their roles weren't so developed to complement, but overlapped a lot, which didn't really serve the music as well as it could have. I remember being at 5/7/77 (my second show) in the balcony looking down at them and realizing that it was Billy that provided the swing and groove. It would have been very cool if he just played percussion. However, I saw a few drums segments, especially in the late 70s and early 80s, which took flight, largely due to Mickey. He kept bringing out really cool sounds and the Rhythm Devils were all new. Sometimes, OTOH, it was just two guys banging on things.
The Allman Brothers Band were fantastic, but Butch was playing the same songs night after night on tour. Mickey plays a completely different show night after night on tour. End of discussion & criticism rejected as far as I'm concerned.
Mickey hart is the best percussionist ever -- and the drums these days are unbelievable
Ugh, Interviewer can't stop interrupting
I know one thing, when I'm tripping and listening to Dead shows on headphones, the WORST thing to do is focus on Mickey. He is usually so off time, it's actually pretty ridiculous. Other than his contributions during Drumz, I'm not sure what he was there for, Billy was far and away the better drummer.
12/5/1971
Proof that Hart was never needed in the band.
just lost a lot of respect for Butch
Butch and Jaimoe were tighter because the Allmans' music was tighter. From Day One (1965, pre-Mickey), Garcia and Lesh always prioritized exploration and risk (thus the live-album title "Without A Net"). They weren't going for 'tight'. There are certain songs (The Other One, Franklin's Tower, Music Never Stopped, Fire on the Mountain) that just wouldn't work without Mickey. The only mistake he made was NOT playing the güiro on "Dark Star" after he came back in '74. It needed it.
This is so stupid. Trucks couldn't, if was given a million dollars, have helmed 17 records filled with great musical moments, and percussion acumen. Mysterium Tremendum is one of the best and better than a few Allman records, though I love them.
Mickey served as a drummer in the Airmen of Note, an elite big band unit that traveled through Europe playing American military classics. And we all know how loose the military is on things so no Butch he obviously can't play.?
still love the drumming of both drummers!!
Butch Trucks could have played by himself and it would still sound solid
Never heard of this guy...heard of mickey hart doe
For real! Good reply lmao
I prefer the GD with Bill alone (70-74) but the idea that Hart--who came out of military/marching/rudimental drumming and went on to play with the greatest drummers and percussionists on the planet--can't play or keep time is some of the most ridiculously ignorant crap I've ever heard.
His son plays with them.
I see both sides to this issue. I think the drum sound from 72-74 when mickey was gone was their best. However, mickey did some really cool out there stuff with the dead especially in the late 80’s. Seeing Dead and Co recently they have him mixed low for a reason. Mickey is more of an experimental musician, he shines during drums/space, which also is of course the worst part of the show.
I saw a lot of Dead shows. I still listen to a lot of live recordings. I always felt that the Dead's drummers cluttered up the sound quite a bit. You really notice the difference when listening to the Gacia Band, too. Much less cluttered. I wouldn't say "Micky can't play" but I do believe that both Jaimoe and Butch were a better combo. And, of course, there are drummers who are head and shoulders above those 2.
Jaimoe and Butch were much tighter in general but Billy and Mickey were awesome sometimes.
Agreed
Long time Dead Head but I'd have to agree. As a combination, I preferred Butch and Jaimoe. I thought they were a better combination. I thought they drove the Brothers are rhythmically to a greater effect and heights than did Billy and Mickey. Maybe it was the jazz background Butch and Jaimoe shared. Mickey could overpower the music with a steady, hard thumping sound. My favorite Dead years were 71-74 without him personally.
12/5/1971 is the only proof needed to show the mickey was never needed. Billy proved himself this night.
Plus Pig and Keith on the same stage this night, too.
The best GD was when Mickey left the band.
Funny bc Butch and Jaimoe were only outdone by Mickey and Billy. And maybe Todd and Sunny 😎
Makes sense... the Grateful Dead, most successful touring band ever, hired a drummer that couldn’t play!! Lmfao. Who are these people that talk like this!!! Obviously no idea wat they’re talking about
That wasn't a band who hired people in the traditional sense until 1979. He just fell into the band in the 60s and there he was. The GD also didn't prove any kind of acumen in their hiring practice later on. Vince Welnick, God bless him, was not the right guy.
Idiots. Let's see them put out a masterpiece like Mickeys latest Ramu
ramu was sick!! loved it
why even beef like this dude?
dead rules & allman’s had their place too
what show is this from?
The Dead's best years were without Mickey, sorry to all those who think the late 80s was peak Dead.
What an embarrassing thing to say 😂
If Butch Trucks said Mickey Hart can't play, then that's an backwards endorsement of Hart's ability to my ears. I would never consider Trucks' opinion to be worthy of more than a moment's consideration. If I recall correctly, Trucks also denigrated Ringo Starr as a drummer.
Butch Trucks was an a-hole in a lot of ways, and he died like one too.
Hi can you please let us know what band you played in for 50 years without missing a show? Thanks!
@@mikesavoca7584 Well, if you're referring to the fact that Butch Trucks played with the ABB for 50 years without missing a gig, well, yeah I guess it's true that he's the only drummer that band had who could make that claim.
But there would be another drummer who could have made that claim, Butch's Brother drummer Jaimoe, if Butch hadn't allowed Jaimoe to be fired. I'm not saying that Butch fired Jaimoe, but he allowed it to happen. Kind of an asshole move, don't you think?
Also, Mickey's dad was a their who stole from the band
I mean he's not wrong. Didn't Jerry almost kill him recording the Terrapin Station album because he couldn't make it out of the fills in the studio?
this is the 2nd anti MH post that appeared today. not sure why
Did it matter? Does it now?
Damn! 😔
And mere mortals torment. Mickey is a Shaman. Plays to the heart and history has proven his merit long ago. Piss in the wind may feel good for a moment, but... Butch Who?... lol. He and Mickey Hart are Both great skin beaters.
Mickey Hart is one of thee best if not thee best percussionist ever. Change my mind lol. NFA GDF ☮️🍄Love&light ✌🏼
Ginger Baker
Can you please source where this interview came from........where did he say it? What show? When?
Is this trunk ?
Man, a lot of Deadheads have become so sour and such crybabies. Some of the replies here, are embarrassing.
not cool at all.
Fooey Yu what about the interviewer guy? What a dweeb. u lighten up. Sounds of jealousy are gross.
Of course the allman bros play what they wanted to play lol
Micky can;t play? They have to be joking.
He's more of percussionist than a rock band drummer is what Butch was getting at.
He doesn't keep time well. I've been a deadhead for 48 years. I've seen them with and without Mickey. Billy is the drummer. Mickey jerks off. Listen to 71-74. Billy kills it.
No, he's not joking. Mickey is a terrible drummer. The Dead's best years were without Mickey. He absolutely ruined the Dead's chemistry when he returned after the "hiatus" in '75. In the '67 to '71 years his contributions were tolerable because he was there to add "color" to the rhythm. When he returned in '75 the rhythm became the "dinosaur stomp" as both drummers played in lockstep with each other, killing the Dead's "swing" and bogging down the band's ability to "turn the corner" in jams. '71 thru '74 are far and away the best years of the Dead. Bill Kruetzmann is one of the best rock drummers of all time. Mickey is a poser.
David Hoefler Okay, and in my opinion 69-71 are the best years of the Dead. What makes yours more valid than mine? You say it as if it's fact, and that you know what suited the band best. Hart REALLY ruined their chemistry, seeing as how much of a failure they were once he returned, right? Blues For Allah? A flop. Look, even I prefer the early shit, but to say everything you've said is ridiculous.
Check out the video of the Dead in Egypt '78. Billy broke his arm riding a horse so even though he was playing he really wasn't. As far as I know its the only time when Mickey was the sole drummer. Bertha rocked. Good Lovin rocked. Mickey rocked. Mickey is definitely an eclectic drummer. He used toms like they were snares (much like Keith Moon used a ride symbol like a high hat) and his rolls are disjointed like Ringo Starr's but "he can't play"? C'mon... Also, we're talking about a band that has a lead guitar player in it that plays guitar like some banjo player of the future who crash landed on Mars because he was too high to find his way back to Earth. I won't even get into Phil Lesh. The only thing that was egregiously bad, out of tune and out of place in the Dead's playing was Bobby's slide solos. That's my 2 cents.
The Dead sounded diferent in a bad meaning after Mickey Hart return to the band in 1975.
Have you ever heard them in 77? Some say, and I agree, that their peak was 77. Cornell often referred to as their greatest show ever.
Mickey is a percussionist, not a drummer. He adds depth and flavor to the band, and also works closely with Bill to create a feeling.
At least Mickey didn't beat and murder his wife. I know that the Allman Brothers Band, even though I love ALL their music, were not always good people. I met Warren Haynes many years ago. I asked him about his relationship with Dicky Betts and he said "I wouldn't piss on that a-hole if he were on fire". Obviously Dicky, Butch and Greg were not necessarily great role models, but all of them brought lots of joy to many, including myself. RIP Butch and Greg. I know that they are jamming with Duane and Woody somewhere in the afterlife.
Who beat and murdered his wife?
I love how these dudes are dogging Mickey. Mickey. Who are these guys?
I mean sure, it's fine. Everyone's got an opinion. But to say that someone who is in one of the biggest groups of all time "can't play" is just dumb.
Butch was being an asshole here but honestly he was right, the dead NEVER needed Mickey, the Bill only era between '72 and '74 was the best, he was always a lot more restrained when he was paired with Mickey but during those years he was free and expressive and at the peak of his creativity. Now as far as Mickey is concerned i wouldn't say he can't play, but he's just an alright drummer and nothing more
There're mates aren't they?
Seen them play a bunch now. He looks like he’s struggling to play everything. Thank god they have a real drummer. Never been impressed with anything he’s done. He’s like Ringo. People praise but they don’t realize how mediocre he is as “drummer/percussionists”
What the FUCK?!
mickey loves what he´s doing, can keep fairly good time, and is also more thinking to express himself and work on sounds. butch shot himself. mickeys still around.
a-the fuck-men !
mickey forever, butch trucks never!
man what the fuck is he talking about
He's kidding.
Thank you Butch. Truth hurts sometimes...When Mickey left the Dead, the music was better. Like Donna, Mickey was an unnecessary appendage. Neither of those two ever added to the music (IMO) but frequently subtracted...I don't need to hear Donna screeching over live Dead ever again...and Mickey had 4,273 drums from around the world in his kit...Never once made me feel a damn thing with any of them. Billy is all the drummer the Dead needed. Period. Imagine if Mickey's dad hadn't taken all of that money...
this is just silly. Mickey was the one who brought the rhythmic weirdness. Before he joined, the Dead were just doing a lot of long blues jams, R&B grooves, and folk stuff in 4/4. It was Mickey who really introduced them to odd time material. Without him there's no The Eleven, or St Stephen, or Estimated, or LL/Supplication, or Greatest Story, or Unbroken Chain, or Uncle John's Band, and on and on...
Get a grip. Mickey was the shit.
I really didn’t mind Donna at all but with her also was Kieth on piano which added a Bill Evens nuance to the feeling since he didn’t ever play the B3 (with extreme rare exception) so that sound also added to those pinnacle years referred to as the “72” era and I think Bill & jer specifically went to a jazz fusion feel in their vamps. This is Not to call into indictment Bret’s contributions at all as I believe he was equally responsible for what was magical and stunning about the Dead. I never questioned Mickey either until more recent years and the more I learned about the situation - including the emperor where’s no clothes syndrome among fans regarding the Mickey question, the more I became disenchanted with Mickey
Listen to a version of The Eleven from 68-69 and tell me Mickey isn't an integral part of the bands sound.
Or Fire on the Mountain... or Terrapin Station...
I guess you didn't see any shows with Donna. Or probably Mickey.
Absolutely love the Dead but the Drums/Space was the best bathroom break.
Dude! Mickey rocks! Sorry. Can’t keep time? 🤣🤣😂😂😂
Fooey Yu well believe it or not If you must know I was a hour early for work as usual, so while I was chilling having a cup of coffee I saw this UA-cam video on Facebook book so I thought I would check it out. So I did and left a comment/opinion, in defense of one of my favorite drummers. Oh and I never messed with acid. But thanks for caring and hurling shallow, narrow minded comments my way. Hope you have a healthy happy new year.
@@george.s.8491 sweet dude.antidote to Trucks' whining
Alot of love for Butch but he is just wrong here
This didn't age well did it? Rest easy butch but, this statement was whack as it gets saying Mickey sucks essentially. Hate to say but he outlasted and outshined butch in all facets of drumming. More so as being a good human too, butch was not on Mickey's level ever.
Bullshit
Mickey can not play? The allman brothers are just borring borring borring
Can't disagree. Mickey had his contributions like Fire On The Mountain and later drums/space, but he was mostly a distraction like Donna. The Dead were way better drum-wise without Mickey. Most of the time I'd rather hear 30 minutes of songs than the drums/space thang anyways. The 72-74 prime Dead was prime in a big part because Mickey wasn't clanking around, and Bill could actually play.
Wtf?!? Mickey was so good adding that depth unparalleled at the time.
@@MrMattyswift For instance the latest Dave's Pick 4/15/78 is a good example. Listen to the Brown Eyed Women train wreck, or the irritating cowbell doing, doing, doing, through Let It Grow. I mean sometimes he contributes, but many times he just clutters the sound. The Aoxomoxoa era I found the interplay between Billy and Mickey much more symboitic. Just my two cents.
My favourite years are when he wasn't playing with them. Maybe it's just a coincidence?
Saw the Dead many times in the 70s. Hart was never with them. My impression was that his "contribution" was overrated in the past. Billy K on the other hand was and is a dynamo of locomotive drumming much like Butch T with The Allmans.
I disagree with Butch
allman brothers are so rigid i cant even listen to them but the dead is awesome
I'm sorry but I just got done listening to a live set and not always...but this time, Mickey's playing was just obnoxious. They were a more tight, coherent band without him. Also, just my own taste, but the sound quality of his toms are terrible. I guess he doesn't use skins on the bottom or something. Just a floppy obnoxious mess.
He just stating the facts.
Both these guys came out of the only two jam improv bands in the day. This lad should know better. Homes on you Butch, Micky is a percussionist first and for most. Sorry but Butch lost all respect from me. NFA
When Butch said diffurnse instead of difference he lost credibility.
Back inna day the word was the Deads 'new' drummer was a California Rudiments Champion drummer. Award winning. All I know is, after he joined the band, the Dead's sound became sluggish.
Maybe when he rejoined the band, but that 67-69 stuff is blazing
There is nothing sluggish about the late 60s stuff. At all.
thenewpollution2 someone's never heard 11/10/67 and it shows.
That’s just cause you were smoking dirt weed and constantly had a headache
When I looked up all the records and millions of dollars of Butch Trucks music sold, this gave me the appropriate credence in his argument.
Meanwhile, Butch not available for comment, as he is watching Matlock with Hal Leonard.
He definitely isn't wrong
I as a long time fan of the Dead, or Dead Head if you will, can like any normal with hearing and vision, agree with Butch here. Mickey should have never been in the band. Billy was more than capable of handling the duties all by his lonesome. He did after Mickey left briefly in the early 70's where he showed us all what a swinging jazzy he was. Just riding that rhythm to perfection. Mickey had/has no rhythm. He had/has no coordination. He was useless to me but further proof that the Dead was a great big family cause they allowed even their worthless comrade cousin to stick around even though he really contributed nothing.
I think the period between '68, on Anthem of the Sun in particular, into LIve/Dead and up until Mickey left he made great contributions. There are many examples of where Kreutzman held his own as the sole drummer, and '73 is often mentioned as one of the best years in their history. So there are plenty of arguments made for Mickey and what he brought to the band, but there's an awful lot of real exciting music he wasn't present for.
What I really think would have been a cool pairing would have been Kreutzman and Joe Russo.
cactaceous I very highly disagree
RoundWorldFishing As long as it's highly, I'm alright w it!
Мойше Рубинштейн I am a drummer.
cactaceous Having watched a bunch of live Dead clips, I do think that Mickey was an odd drummer. His style seemed almost more like one of those Japanese Taiko drummers (almost rigid and hammer-like). In the studio, Bill K was mostly utilized for drum tracks and Mickey may have done overdub Percussion. Anyway, the band must have wanted him around even though he wasn't necessary. Maybe they liked the spectacle of the double drummer.
Well at least Mickey knew how to pay his taxes 🙃