I agree. The 1 guitar with X-bracing is all Mahogany, which is going to drastically affect the sound compared with the other two that have spruce tops. This test is apples and oranges and is therefore flawed.
Real guitarists never NEVER EVER drop their pick or... they just don't pick it up again, to this day Mark Knopfler still plays with his fingers since his pick fell back in 1981.
*I propose you try bamboo for bracing instead. Its properties allow it to be thinned down to about 1/16 of an inch, enabling greater vibration while remaining strong enough to protect the soundboard. Its flexibility is an additional advantage.* Merry Christmas to you
I’m working with two luthiers from Michigan that I met at Fretboard Summit in Chicago and they are making a guitar with curved bracing. That really shook me up with what that does for the bass and sustain.
I take rather inexpensive - mostly Chinese made - guitars and I go inside & scallop the bracing. I don’t take off the top or back - I go right through the sound hole. And it makes these guitars comparable to a scalloped braced D18. No joke. Ryan Kimsey has a UA-cam channel and he does the same thing. I was able to take a $169 Chinese guitar with great “bones” - spruce top/mahogany back & sides - all solid, and it is my go-to guitar. Sounds and plays wonderful. A word of warning - The Favila - I’d put nylon strings on it if I were you, or you’ll be staring at that cracked top popping right off that guitar. That ladder braced guitar - Waterloo - is a Tank - it’ll probably last you the rest of your life, but on a downside it’ll probably never open up like an x-braced guitar.
I just tore into an old 40's parlor. I re-braced the whole thing with that same ladder bracing....hope it sounds good when it's finished. The Waterloo sure sounds good.
I had a fan braced dreadnought, possibly a Hofner in for a set up and liked it, so made myself an O sized with 7 fan braces back in 2000. The soundboard was from a piano built in 1943. It has been THE guitar ever since, played for hours in rehearsals, gigged and busked in all weathers regularly with no adverse effects. The pine looked like old roofing joists when I dismantled the piano ( I used to say bomb damaged salvage given the date ) and I had to use 4 pieces for the top, one full width on the treble and 3 of various widths for the bass side. It is quite bright, with not much bottom end, but cuts through alongside the two Dreadnoughts I play with
First..ish? The x brace has a open brightness that cuts through, the ladder has a unique depth to it. The fan has a softness the two lacks. I always wonder how my classical guitar's bracing affect its sound. Now I got a bit of perspective to it.
Im interested in your impressions of "V-class" bracing by Taylor, and also forward shifted/scalloped braced etc.Would love to learn more about selling used guitars! Im trying to start a side business w/ a partner.
I dont think its all because of the braces, but rather the 12th fret join. The 12th fret join pushes the bridge lower into the lower bout of the guitar compared to a 14th fret join and i think that makes the sound warmer because the wood is more flexible down there compared to near the waist
@@5skdm maybe. The string length is still the same, but the top voicing is king when it comes to the response of the soundboard. The ladder bracing used on the last guitar is nothing new. Just by looking at it I can tell that vibration distribution would be more difficult with a heavier braced guitar, making the top very stiff, less responsive. To me, that is what contributes to a more subdued tone, less volume even. Yet, very even across notes
To me they sound as follows: X-brace is bassier, lower miss, brighter highs. Fan bracing: bass/mids/highs sounded even. Latter bracing sounds: mids are louder, Bass and Mids sound muffled or lower volume.... I like the fan brace...its in betweener.
Hello Jeremy - Thank you so much for creating this video. Totally helpful. Grateful. (Shocked to hear that you are a "Real person". I'm still a fan.) All the best to you Jeremy - almost time for my to thank you for all you've given us this year. Hope your holiday's are lining up well for you. Best, ~Joe
This is a great idea, but there are significant differences in the three guitars other than the bracing, which sort of throws shade on a result. Two of them have spruce tops, and one a hardwood top. Two are 14 frets to the body (longer scale length) and one is 12 frets to the body. Then the ladder-braced guitar has a somewhat atypical pattern with two long transverse braces that most such guitars don't have. Anyway, nice guitars, and I think we get a little idea of the differences.
The Waterloo has the thump of a dreadnought in a smaller body. Love it! One point you made is that Ovations don't age well. Is that the bracing or the mixed materials? When the top expands while the plastic body stays the same, that can't be good. I wonder how torrified tops with non-torrified bracing will age. Hopefully better than those Ovations.
This is a great idea, but the other variables about the guitars swamp any information you might get about the bracing. They are different in every way they can be different. Overall size and shape, and probably depth. One mahogany top, two spruce tops. (What kind of spruce?) Different ages of guitar tops. Different strings! This last could have been controlled for, but weren’t. Back and side material probably doesn’t really matter. The Guild: very quiet, not much projection. This is why tops are usually made of Spruce and Cedar. Hardwoods don’t make great stringed instrument tops. I guess it is balanced, it is uniformly muted. Savilla (spelling?) anyway, the second guitar. Far and away the best of the three, this one is a keeper. The bass is much richer, even with steel strings. Mids and tops seemed fine too. Much more volume and clarity. Imagine the sound if the strings had settled in. Waterloo: This one had a brilliant sounding high end. The bass was dull even though the lower bout on this guitar looked huge. Suprising muted for the size of the guitar. Not terribly balanced.
Great video I learned quite a bit. I liked all the guitars but not surprising the Waterloo stood out. Created a feeling of being in a cloud. How do you think it will age?
The Beatles Gibson j160e’s were ladder braced and the tops were spruce plywood. Of course the first few Led Zeppelin albums featured Jimmy Page on a ladder braced harmony sovereign 1260.
The ladder bracing is the most distinctively different. I grew up playing a ladder braced Silvertone/Harmony. Then I got a Martin and it had more of a “ring”. My only fan braced I’ve had is a classical, which has an overall different design. Each has an appeal. The wild card is arch top with its tone bars. And yeah - ladder bracing does have an aging issue.
Interesting comparison between the first two. May be useful for something. The Waterloo is a 12 fret with the bridge moved closer to the center of the body than the two 14 fretters. Should not have been in the comparison.
i might be wrong but, surely doesn't the tonewood and body shape create the sounds we hear, and for the most part the bracing just exaggerate or dull those sounds as the bracing just controls which areas of the top and back vibrate essentially? so i don't think we can really hear the difference in comparing those guitars you played as we don't know what the bracing is doing compared to what everything else is, but correct me if I'm wrong! none the less, fantastic video!
Personally I think the Guild sounds more modern, while the second guitar has more of a church sound,the 3rd guitar seems to sound folky or bluegrass but the 3rd also seems to have the best sound completely throughout every string and just seems to have the best sound of all of them !!
Its no wonder I want a lute, I also liked the ladder braced the best. The ladder bracing imparts these bigger harmonics onto the overall timbre I'd imagine, which gives the sound this character as opposed to evenness of the modern guitar. Lutes are ladder braced. They are such pretty instruments.
@@hellomate639 I would agree that the older guitars, vintage ladder braced that is, do not sound too much like anything we hear on modern guitars which can be very manufactured sound, too perfect, too crisp and not enough character. Kind of like walking into a hospital that smells like rubbing alcohol. Too clean. Modern guitars are too much alike and they have that almost synthetic sound. So I can honestly understand your preferences.
Thanks for the bracing advice. Do you have any views on X or fan bracing for a nylon-strung acoustic? I'm currently playing an Eko O Special Series which is spruce and rosewood, with very resonant trebles, and I use high-tension nylon classical strings which project quite well. Of course, it's X braced and the guy who sold it to me was wrong in saying it wouldn't work with nylon strings. Am thinking of commissioning a fan-braced, nylon-strung OM style acoustic and would value your thoughts. Cheers. Rosie
I really like this but of course, we have 3 different combinations of tops and back/sides. Are we hearing the bracing or the difference between cherry and rosewood backs/sides or between mahogany and spruce tops? As always I love hearing your playing. I like the positive message and spirit on your videos as well.
CRAZY WHAT IF IDEA - a 3 piece top running the grain horizontally instead of vertically (3 piece to create the length needed). Than a modified ladder bracing to support the top?
perhaps my favorite video of yours that I've seen. Really great that you share your education with the rest of us. I just bought a Waterloo 12 fret ladder braced instrument and it is fantastic. I bought that Waterloo as a contrast to my main instrument, Taylor 814ce Deluxe, a V braced instrument. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the V bracing?
Awesome comparison! I'd love to see a comparison of a custom line (being custom you could potentially remove all the other factors if the builder offered the same model with different bracing. Thanks for doing this, great video!
They all sound great with distinct differences in the "color" of the sound... Great idea for a video! I long ago learned to ignore tone "overall" and concentrate on the "heart and soul" of music to quantify something that can't be quantified... Of course tone matters but it's not what the soul of music is about. I play Ovations that generally aren't in the same tone league as Martin, Taylor, etc. Ovations create/make a decent tone and have the best playability of any acoustic I've "commonly" played. I've played friend's Martins that were expensive and unplayable above the fifth fret to me; tone to die for. Good video to reinforce my Ovation bias on playability over tone. So many times I've played the expensive Martins of others that were unplayable above the fifth fret; great tone but "what's that matter" if it's unplayable above the fifth fret? Great video!
This is a really interesting experiment, but.......I'm watching the strummed passages, and it's notable that you play them differently on each instrument. That's a very musicianly thing to do, responding to the voice of the instrument and the way it wants to be played, but it undermines the objectivity of the comparison somewhat :) I have subscribed, though, because anyone who is bothering to look at things like this is worth paying attention to.
I can hear that you keep your action pretty high, but with small bodied acoustics if you lower it right before it starts buzzing you get a much more mellower midrange. James Taylor usually does that, which is why his guitars don't sound boxy despite being smaller. I have a guild m120 that can sound similar to your m20 when the action is higher, but I keep it lower so it has more v shape.
Hellow! Nice comparison. I am not a pro but i think that the woods, the different strings and the different body shapes makes the sound different for every guitar even if they had the same bracing
Ok, what about V-brace and C-class (cantilever) bracing? Also on the X bracing, I thought there was a forward shift X brace that give more umph? Than k s for the great demo.
How do they install the bridge plate on the inside of the guitar for the fan braced one. I can see how for nylon strings, but not for steel with bridge pins.
X braced had base, mid, and highs. The fan lost base, mid, but had high. Latter was warmer sounding warm base, hardly no mid, but equal highs to match base.
I'm a fan of the fan braced one, it sounds very balanced, I think if it had DAddario nickel bronze strings it would be more connected to the sound from its wood, I enjoyed the comparison and don't care about all the technical differences between them, it was still a great video to do.
The Gibson sounds, as you said, sort "don't they all sound that way?". I found the Favilla darker, not at all brighter. The Waterloo was bland, thin, put it back on the rack. I was wearing Sony 7506 "cans". Check the bracing? Easy-peasy - bring a dental mirror or similar.
I don't like it. It was a bad decision to decrease the amount of guitars developing cracks or bellied tops. It makes sense structurally but it robs guitars of their ability to vibrate and ring.
Hello Jeremy. I love your vids, but wonder why you chose a hog top for your x-brace example. I’m sure you have at least 1 x-braced Spruce top ax. The different tonewoods confounded the experiment for me.
Yes, but, admittedly it is not an entirely accurate comparison. These are three guitars that I happened to own at the same time and are fairly similar. Thanks for watching.
A guitar needs to suit the playing style of the player. In my opinion the more specific a guitar sounds the more effort it needs to master its possibilities, if you are willing to go that way with your Instrument it will give you more in that direction than a guitar which is an Allrounder. That Also refers to the comparison of the Gibson lg 1/2 . Sometimes a comparison brings more confusion than help.
I wonder why guitar makers don't use a marker to show people what kind of bracing a guitar has. Like, Taylor uses black nuts for its V- or C-braced guitars and there is a custom to use a slotted headstock for a 12-fret (which is a lot more obvious than the bracing).
Both types of bracing can have various degrees of heaviness, thickness, and scalloping or non scalloping. This factor is also important. A heavily braced x bracing will sound very different than a very lightly and scalloped x bracing.
@@JeremySheppard I edited my comment to not be so harsh, I had watched a number of ladder vs x braced videos and it seemed to be something not mentioned. Some of the ladder Gibson LG guitars can be dogs and maybe it is due to the heaviness. Some other ladder guitars can sound very good, like the Harmony Sovereigns and the Waterloo that you recently acquired.
What excellent concept for a video! Keep them coming Jeremy. How about CV bracing, V-Class bracing and cantilever sometime? PRS Acoustics are fan braced I'm pretty sure. McManus. I definitely agree with you about the slightly dampered or muted tone on the ladder bracing. I think it was difficult to compare because the fan brace guitar had a bigger about which produced lower overtones. And the experts guitar was all mahogany so there were a lot of variables other than bracing which made it harder to distinguish. Happy Holidays!
This is a nice, well-recorded demo of these guitars, but it's not especially representative in terms of tone. As a builder, there are so many factors that interact, often in a way that isn't well-understood, to create the voice of an instrument. Bracing is not so much about creating a guitar's tone, but more about allowing the inherent tone that instrument has to sing - resonance, rather than tonality.
I liked the Favilla, though the fact that it's over fifty years old and has a chance to age and open up may be a factor. The fan bracing, however, has a hard time dealing with the tension of steel strings, so you need to be careful with the strings you put on it. They used ladder bracing on their 12 strings.
My taste varies from year to year based on what guitar I own presently it seems. A;l sounded acceptable but I would get bored of just owning a boxy vintage sound. I have owned and played older 12 to the body guitars and although I like them from a purely history preservation sound, I get tired of the sound as it is kind of dull, not bright enough, not clarifying enough and definitely more pigeon-holed as not being flexible to really play a larger genre of music styles like play, which is more the 1960s - late 1990s folk guitar music. So for me, the fan bracing guitar sound had the most versatility as it did not sound so modern that it was too crisp, and had balance. The Guild did sound excellent. The clarity was very evident. I also honestly thought you could play it the best, sounded more comfortable in your playing, of the three guitars..
@@JeremySheppard Sorry, I knew you had a ladder braced guitar. I just wondered if you had ever tried a lattice braced guitar ? I have built a few of them.
@@JeremySheppard Yeah i get it! Just a suggestion that you should caveat that in future instead for the viewers. Still an interesting video nonetheless Jeremy. Keep making great acoustic guitar content.
Guild's model (x-braced) sounds the best, to my ear - sound is "warm" and "present", very loud (relative to the size of the instrument). Favilla sounds a bit "dull" or should I say "too flat", as if somehow "muted". Waterloo is a bit shallow/plasticy...I would recommend Waterloo to the beginner who is interested in practicing with a pick (strumming); Favilla would do nice as an accompanying guitar for a "one-man-band", with a good mike in front of a resonator; Guild would be ideal for fingerpicking/delta blues stuff...
THE FAN, X BRACING SEEM TO PROJECT BETTER. THE LADDER BRACING SOUNDS OK . NOT MUCH LOW END BUT IN THE RIGHT CONTEXT AN D SITUATION. IT WOULD WORK. MY CHOICE WOULD BE THE X BRACING. WHAT BRACING DOES WASHBRUN USE
Yeah man even in the classical guitar world fan brace is hit and miss in my opinion. Honestly For my taste Lattice is more of the new modern sound. Hey you wouldn’t happen to know if there is a lattice brace steel string guitars??
I liked the fan brace over the X. The ladder sounded awful to my ear - like I would imagine a beginner $75 guitar from Walmart to sound. I would be curious to hear the new Taylor V brace, though.
I agree, but more to me that the ladder braced guitar sound gets tiring to me, faster. I want versatility and the fan braced guitar is going to be just that and get better with its aging as well.
Can’t really compare different bracing when you have guitars made with different woods and also, one is a 12 fret! That alone makes a big difference.
You are spot on, man. Guild although being X-braced is completely different animal from let's say Martin 00-18
I agree. The 1 guitar with X-bracing is all Mahogany, which is going to drastically affect the sound compared with the other two that have spruce tops. This test is apples and oranges and is therefore flawed.
Fan bracing is for classical guitars not acoustic
@thomas, he did state that the fan bracing is most often used for classical.
Cool, now go make a video if the critique is genuine..
I like the bracing that doesn't keep my pick trapped forever when it falls through the sound hole.
Hahaha. Yes!
I think that’s called a solid body type of bracing
@@blazejad2772 This Instaportal is a known scam that tries to empty your PayPal account by asking for payment
Lost in the void 😂
Real guitarists never NEVER EVER drop their pick or... they just don't pick it up again, to this day Mark Knopfler still plays with his fingers since his pick fell back in 1981.
That Waterloo sounds amazing
*I propose you try bamboo for bracing instead. Its properties allow it to be thinned down to about 1/16 of an inch, enabling greater vibration while remaining strong enough to protect the soundboard. Its flexibility is an additional advantage.*
Merry Christmas to you
I’m working with two luthiers from Michigan that I met at Fretboard Summit in Chicago and they are making a guitar with curved bracing. That really shook me up with what that does for the bass and sustain.
Please let me know how it goes!
I take rather inexpensive - mostly Chinese made - guitars and I go inside & scallop the bracing. I don’t take off the top or back - I go right through the sound hole. And it makes these guitars comparable to a scalloped braced D18. No joke. Ryan Kimsey has a UA-cam channel and he does the same thing. I was able to take a $169 Chinese guitar with great “bones” - spruce top/mahogany back & sides - all solid, and it is my go-to guitar. Sounds and plays wonderful. A word of warning - The Favila - I’d put nylon strings on it if I were you, or you’ll be staring at that cracked top popping right off that guitar. That ladder braced guitar - Waterloo - is a Tank - it’ll probably last you the rest of your life, but on a downside it’ll probably never open up like an x-braced guitar.
Waterloo does make models with X bracing for those who prefer it.
I just tore into an old 40's parlor. I re-braced the whole thing with that same ladder bracing....hope it sounds good when it's finished. The Waterloo sure sounds good.
I had a fan braced dreadnought, possibly a Hofner in for a set up and liked it, so made myself an O sized with 7 fan braces back in 2000. The soundboard was from a piano built in 1943. It has been THE guitar ever since, played for hours in rehearsals, gigged and busked in all weathers regularly with no adverse effects. The pine looked like old roofing joists when I dismantled the piano ( I used to say bomb damaged salvage given the date ) and I had to use 4 pieces for the top, one full width on the treble and 3 of various widths for the bass side. It is quite bright, with not much bottom end, but cuts through alongside the two Dreadnoughts I play with
Gypsy Jazz guitars - Selmer are ladder braced. I love it.
First..ish? The x brace has a open brightness that cuts through, the ladder has a unique depth to it. The fan has a softness the two lacks. I always wonder how my classical guitar's bracing affect its sound. Now I got a bit of perspective to it.
Im interested in your impressions of "V-class" bracing by Taylor, and also forward shifted/scalloped braced etc.Would love to learn more about selling used guitars! Im trying to start a side business w/ a partner.
i liked the guild....how does the m20 compare to the new p240 memoir?
Honestly, the mellow/warm tone of the ladder braces guitar is beautiful
I agree!
I dont think its all because of the braces, but rather the 12th fret join. The 12th fret join pushes the bridge lower into the lower bout of the guitar compared to a 14th fret join and i think that makes the sound warmer because the wood is more flexible down there compared to near the waist
@@5skdm maybe. The string length is still the same, but the top voicing is king when it comes to the response of the soundboard. The ladder bracing used on the last guitar is nothing new. Just by looking at it I can tell that vibration distribution would be more difficult with a heavier braced guitar, making the top very stiff, less responsive. To me, that is what contributes to a more subdued tone, less volume even. Yet, very even across notes
Just because of the complete absense of bass
To me they sound as follows: X-brace is bassier, lower miss, brighter highs. Fan bracing: bass/mids/highs sounded even. Latter bracing sounds: mids are louder, Bass and Mids sound muffled or lower volume.... I like the fan brace...its in betweener.
Thanks Jeremy for a great comparison. I won't pick a favorite. they are all different in a good way.
Hello Jeremy - Thank you so much for creating this video. Totally helpful. Grateful. (Shocked to hear that you are a "Real person". I'm still a fan.) All the best to you Jeremy - almost time for my to thank you for all you've given us this year. Hope your holiday's are lining up well for you. Best, ~Joe
This is a great idea, but there are significant differences in the three guitars other than the bracing, which sort of throws shade on a result. Two of them have spruce tops, and one a hardwood top. Two are 14 frets to the body (longer scale length) and one is 12 frets to the body. Then the ladder-braced guitar has a somewhat atypical pattern with two long transverse braces that most such guitars don't have. Anyway, nice guitars, and I think we get a little idea of the differences.
I realized how important the bracing is when I started doubting if it was the same licks on all the guitars
The Waterloo has the thump of a dreadnought in a smaller body. Love it! One point you made is that Ovations don't age well. Is that the bracing or the mixed materials? When the top expands while the plastic body stays the same, that can't be good. I wonder how torrified tops with non-torrified bracing will age. Hopefully better than those Ovations.
This is a great idea, but the other variables about the guitars swamp any information you might get about the bracing. They are different in every way they can be different. Overall size and shape, and probably depth. One mahogany top, two spruce tops. (What kind of spruce?) Different ages of guitar tops. Different strings! This last could have been controlled for, but weren’t. Back and side material probably doesn’t really matter.
The Guild: very quiet, not much projection. This is why tops are usually made of Spruce and Cedar. Hardwoods don’t make great stringed instrument tops. I guess it is balanced, it is uniformly muted.
Savilla (spelling?) anyway, the second guitar. Far and away the best of the three, this one is a keeper. The bass is much richer, even with steel strings. Mids and tops seemed fine too. Much more volume and clarity. Imagine the sound if the strings had settled in.
Waterloo: This one had a brilliant sounding high end. The bass was dull even though the lower bout on this guitar looked huge. Suprising muted for the size of the guitar. Not terribly balanced.
Started learning about guitar voicing . Tops or soundboards.. the bracing’s are scalloped for resonance
Jeremy.. just thank you so much, as an acoustic nerd I love watching your videos🙏🏻🎸
The Waterloo sounds great
Great video I learned quite a bit. I liked all the guitars but not surprising the Waterloo stood out. Created a feeling of being in a cloud. How do you think it will age?
The Beatles Gibson j160e’s were ladder braced and the tops were spruce plywood. Of course the first few Led Zeppelin albums featured Jimmy Page on a ladder braced harmony sovereign 1260.
The fan bracing punishes you more for your technical playing mistakes. That's the best guitar to own, make you a better player.
1965 Favilla F6 was my favourite mids..fit for finger style..
The ladder bracing is the most distinctively different. I grew up playing a ladder braced Silvertone/Harmony. Then I got a Martin and it had more of a “ring”. My only fan braced I’ve had is a classical, which has an overall different design. Each has an appeal. The wild card is arch top with its tone bars. And yeah - ladder bracing does have an aging issue.
Hi Jeremy, thank you for the great sharing. Just curious what is your opinions on V bracing? which is better compare to X bracing?
The M20 just does it for me, something about it...intoxicating
Interesting comparison between the first two. May be useful for something. The Waterloo is a 12 fret with the bridge moved closer to the center of the body than the two 14 fretters. Should not have been in the comparison.
i might be wrong but, surely doesn't the tonewood and body shape create the sounds we hear, and for the most part the bracing just exaggerate or dull those sounds as the bracing just controls which areas of the top and back vibrate essentially? so i don't think we can really hear the difference in comparing those guitars you played as we don't know what the bracing is doing compared to what everything else is, but correct me if I'm wrong! none the less, fantastic video!
Personally I think the Guild sounds more modern, while the second guitar has more of a church sound,the 3rd guitar seems to sound folky or bluegrass but the 3rd also seems to have the best sound completely throughout every string and just seems to have the best sound of all of them !!
Its no wonder I want a lute, I also liked the ladder braced the best.
The ladder bracing imparts these bigger harmonics onto the overall timbre I'd imagine, which gives the sound this character as opposed to evenness of the modern guitar.
Lutes are ladder braced. They are such pretty instruments.
@@hellomate639 I would agree that the older guitars, vintage ladder braced that is, do not sound too much like anything we hear on modern guitars which can be very manufactured sound, too perfect, too crisp and not enough character. Kind of like walking into a hospital that smells like rubbing alcohol. Too clean. Modern guitars are too much alike and they have that almost synthetic sound. So I can honestly understand your preferences.
Thanks for the bracing advice. Do you have any views on X or fan bracing for a nylon-strung acoustic? I'm currently playing an Eko O Special Series which is spruce and rosewood, with very resonant trebles, and I use high-tension nylon classical strings which project quite well. Of course, it's X braced and the guy who sold it to me was wrong in saying it wouldn't work with nylon strings. Am thinking of commissioning a fan-braced, nylon-strung OM style acoustic and would value your thoughts. Cheers. Rosie
props on playing 'campfire chords' in such a beautiful way - very well made video
Campfire chords are a guide to the whole fretboard 😊
I really like this but of course, we have 3 different combinations of tops and back/sides. Are we hearing the bracing or the difference between cherry and rosewood backs/sides or between mahogany and spruce tops? As always I love hearing your playing. I like the positive message and spirit on your videos as well.
or age or body size or strings .... exactly. and where is that v bracing :)
@@janeandthecoolcats5033 don’t forget one of them is a 12 fret rather than a 14 fret. Big difference right there.
@@glorioskiola true, thats another trait :) keeping this in mind also short vs longscale matter. greetings
Identical Strings? Dimensions of body. Thickness of top.shape of body.
Great quest. I also wonder differences
Good god, that Waterloo
CRAZY WHAT IF IDEA - a 3 piece top running the grain horizontally instead of vertically (3 piece to create the length needed). Than a modified ladder bracing to support the top?
perhaps my favorite video of yours that I've seen. Really great that you share your education with the rest of us. I just bought a Waterloo 12 fret ladder braced instrument and it is fantastic. I bought that Waterloo as a contrast to my main instrument, Taylor 814ce Deluxe, a V braced instrument. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the V bracing?
The Waterloo sounds the best to me...Wonder how close that is to V-bracing?
It's similar, it's pretty split between X and ladder braced.
Awesome comparison! I'd love to see a comparison of a custom line (being custom you could potentially remove all the other factors if the builder offered the same model with different bracing. Thanks for doing this, great video!
They all sound great with distinct differences in the "color" of the sound... Great idea for a video! I long ago learned to ignore tone "overall" and concentrate on the "heart and soul" of music to quantify something that can't be quantified... Of course tone matters but it's not what the soul of music is about. I play Ovations that generally aren't in the same tone league as Martin, Taylor, etc. Ovations create/make a decent tone and have the best playability of any acoustic I've "commonly" played. I've played friend's Martins that were expensive and unplayable above the fifth fret to me; tone to die for. Good video to reinforce my Ovation bias on playability over tone. So many times I've played the expensive Martins of others that were unplayable above the fifth fret; great tone but "what's that matter" if it's unplayable above the fifth fret? Great video!
The waterloo spoke to me. I don't know, it just sounded great to my ears
Thanks for the video. I personally liked the second guitar. But all of them sounds nice depends of playing style.
This is a really interesting experiment, but.......I'm watching the strummed passages, and it's notable that you play them differently on each instrument. That's a very musicianly thing to do, responding to the voice of the instrument and the way it wants to be played, but it undermines the objectivity of the comparison somewhat :) I have subscribed, though, because anyone who is bothering to look at things like this is worth paying attention to.
Really nice video on this topic! Thank you!
What about Taylor V shape bracing ?
I can hear that you keep your action pretty high, but with small bodied acoustics if you lower it right before it starts buzzing you get a much more mellower midrange. James Taylor usually does that, which is why his guitars don't sound boxy despite being smaller. I have a guild m120 that can sound similar to your m20 when the action is higher, but I keep it lower so it has more v shape.
Hellow! Nice comparison. I am not a pro but i think that the woods, the different strings and the different body shapes makes the sound different for every guitar even if they had the same bracing
Ok, what about V-brace and C-class (cantilever) bracing? Also on the X bracing, I thought there was a forward shift X brace that give more umph? Than k s for the great demo.
should have covered lattice bracing as well.
A small mirror on a stick to look inside? 😊
How do they install the bridge plate on the inside of the guitar for the fan braced one. I can see how for nylon strings, but not for steel with bridge pins.
X braced had base, mid, and highs. The fan lost base, mid, but had high. Latter was warmer sounding warm base, hardly no mid, but equal highs to match base.
I'm a fan of the fan braced one, it sounds very balanced, I think if it had DAddario nickel bronze strings it would be more connected to the sound from its wood, I enjoyed the comparison and don't care about all the technical differences between them, it was still a great video to do.
That waterloo🙆♂️😍
I recognise the fan bracing as the PRS acoustics sound
The Gibson sounds, as you said, sort "don't they all sound that way?". I found the Favilla darker, not at all brighter. The Waterloo was bland, thin, put it back on the rack. I was wearing Sony 7506 "cans". Check the bracing? Easy-peasy - bring a dental mirror or similar.
What song were you playing?
What are your views on Double X bracing ?
I don't like it. It was a bad decision to decrease the amount of guitars developing cracks or bellied tops. It makes sense structurally but it robs guitars of their ability to vibrate and ring.
Would have liked to have heard a Taylor-style V-brace for comparison.
they all have their place. I could use a cedar topped fan brace thinline.
Awesome information
All are great bring something different but Guild is my personal fav. It offers a little something better and is a winner
Hello Jeremy. I love your vids, but wonder why you chose a hog top for your x-brace example. I’m sure you have at least 1 x-braced Spruce top ax. The different tonewoods confounded the experiment for me.
Hey Jason, I'm not sure. I think that's all I had available at the time. Maybe I had a full sized dread so similar sizes won out. Thanks for watching!
How can you talk about bracing if you compare spruce and mahogany tops?
Yes, but, admittedly it is not an entirely accurate comparison. These are three guitars that I happened to own at the same time and are fairly similar. Thanks for watching.
Ladder Bracing - a "surround" sound!
Just discovered this video (even though I've been subscribed for a while) Thanks for taking the time & producing this great content.
The mahogany top is really driving the tone with the Guild.
A guitar needs to suit the playing style of the player. In my opinion the more specific a guitar sounds the more effort it needs to master its possibilities, if you are willing to go that way with your Instrument it will give you more in that direction than a guitar which is an Allrounder. That Also refers to the comparison of the Gibson lg 1/2 .
Sometimes a comparison brings more confusion than help.
I wonder why guitar makers don't use a marker to show people what kind of bracing a guitar has. Like, Taylor uses black nuts for its V- or C-braced guitars and there is a custom to use a slotted headstock for a 12-fret (which is a lot more obvious than the bracing).
I guess it's just because you either care enough to check inside or you just don't need to know.
Both types of bracing can have various degrees of heaviness, thickness, and scalloping or non scalloping. This factor is also important. A heavily braced x bracing will sound very different than a very lightly and scalloped x bracing.
That's definitely true. I'm not a guitar shop so I have what I have and I think it's entertaining. But, scientific it certainly isn't.
@@JeremySheppard I edited my comment to not be so harsh, I had watched a number of ladder vs x braced videos and it seemed to be something not mentioned. Some of the ladder Gibson LG guitars can be dogs and maybe it is due to the heaviness. Some other ladder guitars can sound very good, like the Harmony Sovereigns and the Waterloo that you recently acquired.
Jeremy, what kind of mic are you using there and what are you recording into?
The Waterloo has the best fundamentals, the guild has the flattest sound. And the favilla is somewhere between the other two.
excelente video
What excellent concept for a video! Keep them coming Jeremy. How about CV bracing, V-Class bracing and cantilever sometime? PRS Acoustics are fan braced I'm pretty sure. McManus. I definitely agree with you about the slightly dampered or muted tone on the ladder bracing. I think it was difficult to compare because the fan brace guitar had a bigger about which produced lower overtones. And the experts guitar was all mahogany so there were a lot of variables other than bracing which made it harder to distinguish. Happy Holidays!
This is a nice, well-recorded demo of these guitars, but it's not especially representative in terms of tone. As a builder, there are so many factors that interact, often in a way that isn't well-understood, to create the voice of an instrument. Bracing is not so much about creating a guitar's tone, but more about allowing the inherent tone that instrument has to sing - resonance, rather than tonality.
I liked the Favilla, though the fact that it's over fifty years old and has a chance to age and open up may be a factor. The fan bracing, however, has a hard time dealing with the tension of steel strings, so you need to be careful with the strings you put on it. They used ladder bracing on their 12 strings.
My taste varies from year to year based on what guitar I own presently it seems. A;l sounded acceptable but I would get bored of just owning a boxy vintage sound. I have owned and played older 12 to the body guitars and although I like them from a purely history preservation sound, I get tired of the sound as it is kind of dull, not bright enough, not clarifying enough and definitely more pigeon-holed as not being flexible to really play a larger genre of music styles like play, which is more the 1960s - late 1990s folk guitar music. So for me, the fan bracing guitar sound had the most versatility as it did not sound so modern that it was too crisp, and had balance. The Guild did sound excellent. The clarity was very evident. I also honestly thought you could play it the best, sounded more comfortable in your playing, of the three guitars..
The guild sounds thin like the X bracing may not be scalloped.
Lattice bracing ?
Ladder
@@JeremySheppard Sorry, I knew you had a ladder braced guitar. I just wondered if you had ever tried a lattice braced guitar ?
I have built a few of them.
How are they "similar in specs"? It's not a reliable comparison with so many varying factors, like the top wood and body size.
It's true. I'm not a guitar shop, so this is what I had in my collection and thought it would be interesting.
@@JeremySheppard Yeah i get it! Just a suggestion that you should caveat that in future instead for the viewers. Still an interesting video nonetheless Jeremy. Keep making great acoustic guitar content.
I like the latter brace
Checked inside my Hagström Siljan ii special edition.. Ladder braced!
Cool! How does it sound?
Waterloo
Guild's model (x-braced) sounds the best, to my ear - sound is "warm" and "present", very loud (relative to the size of the instrument). Favilla sounds a bit "dull" or should I say "too flat", as if somehow "muted". Waterloo is a bit shallow/plasticy...I would recommend Waterloo to the beginner who is interested in practicing with a pick (strumming); Favilla would do nice as an accompanying guitar for a "one-man-band", with a good mike in front of a resonator; Guild would be ideal for fingerpicking/delta blues stuff...
They all sound good.
THE FAN, X BRACING SEEM TO PROJECT BETTER. THE LADDER BRACING SOUNDS OK . NOT MUCH LOW END BUT IN THE RIGHT CONTEXT AN D SITUATION. IT WOULD WORK. MY CHOICE WOULD BE THE X BRACING. WHAT BRACING DOES WASHBRUN USE
The Waterloo has the most Evan tone overall. I mean it’s sound is just amazing to my ears , 5 *****
I agree 100%
This is a shoot out between a rock and a cactus.......not even close to being comparable.
The wood difference is overpowering your intended experiment in bracing.
This video has always been flawed since I'm just a guy who owns guitars instead of being a shop or builder.
This is like comparing pickups with a different amp for one but not the other.
Yeah man even in the classical guitar world fan brace is hit and miss in my opinion. Honestly For my taste Lattice is more of the new modern sound. Hey you wouldn’t happen to know if there is a lattice brace steel string guitars??
That's a great question!
I will stick with the tried X bracing...call me old fashion but it has been great.
Gotta love an all mahogany guitar!
Nice shirt 😎
Martin. That’s the best sounding one for me :)
I have a Martin? Haha
@@JeremySheppard lmao I didn't understand this comment either, I think he means the mahogany guild tho
Second one is the best fingerpicker, third one the best strummer ...
I liked the fan brace over the X. The ladder sounded awful to my ear - like I would imagine a beginner $75 guitar from Walmart to sound. I would be curious to hear the new Taylor V brace, though.
I agree, but more to me that the ladder braced guitar sound gets tiring to me, faster. I want versatility and the fan braced guitar is going to be just that and get better with its aging as well.
The Guild to this tin ear.
I like them all, but the latter bracing guitar I realy liked,
... for working in the studio, I chose the Fafella