I asked in a community post and you guys were interested in seeing this discussion, so here it is! Remember it's not a debate, rather more like discussing our different preferences and values Link to post: ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxLukVE9FHCDfbLyNx_lBVk3qApm8mU2Il
Xingqiu is great but as a player who was struggling to go from 33 stars to 36 stars, Furina and Yelan were who helped me get the dmg needed to clear for 36 stars. I can't rank Xingqiu ahead of them, I'd only pick Xingqiu if I badly needed interruption resistance or was dying too easily.
I think even with Genshin releasing more enemies like Wenut and Thunder Manifestation, he still places XQ above Yelan and Furina. He cares so much about XQ defensive utility, but not much about other characters' utilities.
In most cases, he does already fell off as most team already have stagger resistance, but 40% damage res is huge for squishy team, I'd rather use xinq than any other hydro applicator on arlechino vape team. I think zajef value more about flexible support that can work on any team that need hydro while not being way worse substitute for other team that his kit doesn't really needed even when that is the case most of the time
@@ravenwong651 yeah just run 2 hyperbloom team for both sides. for early account you don't expecting have high cons 4 star. c6 4 stars more expensive then c0 5 stars
actually thinking about it, yeah. kinda funny nilou is on the list because she's easier to clear with at a lower investment but xianyun isn't despite doing something similar.
@@hedgehugsXianyun doesn’t require low investment though. The multipliers on plunge aren’t that impressive. What makes plunge work is it has no icd. So you can vape or melt it. This means you need to max your normal talents, and need high artifact investment to make use of those reaction multipliers. In reverse vape comps; xq and yelan lose half of their damage due to the lack of normal attacks so furina is a staple. Those teams essentially look like Bennett, XYN, furina, max normal talents, and cracked artifacts. In comparison, Nilou asks for nahida and the dendro artifact set.
@@cadeemmusgrove7791 Can't say I really agree. Well, I'll agree Nilou is lower investment by virtue of not needing the best artifacts and maaaybe only needing Nahida depending on the content. However, I still think Xianyun is still easy to play/invest into. All you really want is decent artifacts (like almost every other team lol) and C6 Bennett and/or Furina (both required if you're playing a "non-optimal" character like say... Xinyan or something but as stated you can get away with almost any unit as long as it's not a bow character) Personally, I don't even use Xianyun in vape teams lmao. I've been using Navia Plunge (Navia/Chiori/Furina/Xianyun) every since it was playable and it hasn't failed me yet, so... 🤷
I think these tier lists would be a lot more interesting with a clearly defined criteria. Like which characters would be considered the best with the limitation that you only need 2 teams and they can't have more than 4 total 5 stars including weapons. The best f2p teams so to speak. With the ultimate goal being no to just beat abyss with 36 stars but also to beat is as fast as possible.
Well problems still arise with criteria bias and there is generally just no optimal way to present a tierlist. Characters mentioned above can still stay but in a different context
i agree, though i also think zajef’s criteria is just right.. “how strong is that character’s strongest team, and how many teams they can be slotted in” how versatile a character is is a great criteria. and if they are niche, how good are they in their niche ? (hence nilou is on the list, because her niche team can actually compete with top meta teams)
@@IiIygarden Zajef's criteria is still a little vague if you ask me. Everyone's understanding of the word strong is different, because what is the "strongest team"? Is it the team with the highest DPS/DPR? Is it the one that requires the least amount of resets? Or is it the one that clears the fastest because of its front loaded-ness. Even if you pick one of these definitions you still need to define how high the cost of the team can be.
I agree with your discussion at the beginning on what criteria to use. For me flexibility and relative value of their role (how easy are they to replace with someone else at how much of a loss?) at C0R0 for 5* is what matters the most, but I know in these kinds of discussions some people tend to prefer comfort or ease of play, or having a higher damage floor, or consistency or value in vertical investment. I wish all tier lists and top character lists always explained what they valued. I feel that makes discussions more interesting than just saying "X character is better than Y character because I said so"
6:51 it's not just that furina is a strong support but how she makes other chr storng with her. She single hadedly reshaped so many meta teams imo.. She's part of some many storng cores like: Bennett and xiangling, yelan and xilonen/kazuha, neuvilette and kazuha, jean, xianyun and xiao, hu tao and so many more.. Itto's best team is no longer mono geo now.. that's something to consider
"reshaped many meta teams"? Okay I'm probably missing out on her, can you name teams that she made meta? I can only think of Neuvillette (meta before her), HuTao (meta before her), somewhat Xiao, maybe mono hydro? Although I'm not sure how meta those two are.
@@michael_bones I think they mean reshaped as in slotted into and replaced characters in multiple meta teams. For example, she replaced xq in al haitham quickbloom. Jamie said she's like the icing on the cake, which is true. But what he didn't talk about was that once you have icing on the cake, plain cake feels so much worse. Or if you have a lackluster cake, you can cover it up with icing and make it shine. That's why she has so much hype imo.
Early accounts don’t have four star constellations and fully refined gacha weapons. KQMS expecting every four star to be C6 with an R3 BiS gacha weapon is straight up delusional - but that’s still the assumption people like Zajef use, despite this setup being equal to a C2 or a C1R1 limited five star. Guy just has a boner for providing pseudo-F2P-friendly takes, that’s why he’s always overhyping the four stars, that’s about it.
@@vladdyru yeah is really hard to get C6 XQ nowadays or C4 Xiangling, even you can get first C2 Furina or C1 Neuvilette, C1 Arlecchino, it means that maybe you will do the content faster than just wait for 4 stars constellations is a good point
@@ryougi673 Big brain moment: You put ToM on Furina so you can put Scroll on Faruzan Edit: 10:05 I didn't get that far in the video when I originally typed this lol
@@adamarleiwhere did he say this? Can you link? Cause from what I've watched from him he has always said arle is top 2 and even better than neuv in many scenarios (though he mostly thinks it depends on what content the respective dps are facing)
@@adamarlei just checked, it is top 10 f2p friendly dps not strongest dps, in fact he even says that even though he put alhaitam above arle it doesn't necessarily means he thinks he is better than her.
This was a fun one. I agree with most of the list, I think there's a valid debate on how to rank DPS compared to other character roles since that team slot is a lot more competitive and people tend to have a lot stronger preferences for who they want to play than they do for their buffers, etc. Personally I don't think there's any way I'd rank a DPS as number one strongest character unless their clear times were like, 50% or more faster than *every other DPS* comparing all at c0 and moderate investment, or something equally insane. Like if we had Neuvillette and then the next best DPS was like Yoimiya and other characters around that power level. There just isn't that huge gulf in performance.
I greatly appreciate the segment about setting criteria prior to the list. I've always liked to look at top characters in this game from the perspective of pull value before anything else. If a unit is able to be flexed into multiple teams, can consolidate roles, or anything similar, I tend to definitely look more favorably at them. Doubly so if they're very easy to access (i.e. Shop, Lantern Rite, unit from an event, etc.) . So yes, I am part of XQ best character gang. I just tend to not care about strength discussions simply because most, if not all, characters can meet a similar floor of "can you full clear Abyss" in one of their teams, and there's really no incentive to do more than that in Genshin's current state, unless you like seeing a faster time.
Everyone should get their favourite dps and gets their best supports. If you need neuvilette to clear content you have skill issues. Everyone can clear using neuvilette so what's the point of playing. Making your favourite character the best that is fun.
@@faber3813 he has a very wide audience of loyal stan dickriders and his takes, let's just say, can be pretty controversial. This leads to the fact that a lot of aforementioned stans take those takes at their face value and God forbid anybody else disagree with zajef's opinion. Plus zajef himself seems to be very snowflake-ish.
He's for sure pretty good at speed running, but that's not why people consider him to be the best dps in the game it's because all his other strengths, if speed running was the only metric Mualani would be considered the best dps in the game.
sometimes it feels like he does it just to be different, some pronounciations in english are very different from the original. Which makes it hard to understand what character he's talking about. Imagine being a new player and hearing him say Kandak (Candace) or Oi-luh (Eula), it's like "who the fuck are you talking about"
I did not expect Zajef to be the first CC I saw rank Neuvillette number one overall. He's my pick as well, and imo it's not all that close. I understand valuing supports over DPS units in general, but for an exceptional DPS, there can be an exception.
it makes no sense to place a dps that isn’t even clearing the fastest far above every other dps, unless your criteria is simply how easy it is to play, not the strongest (which this is)
@@PenguinsAreColdish suppose there was a DPS who has a one in a thousand chance of entering an enraged state as soon as combat starts that instantly kills every enemy until combat ends, otherwise they have extremely limited abilities. Top speed runs would include this character, but for reasons that are obvious to people who are playing the actual game and not hunting for speed runs, this character would be dogshit. Neuvillette is a peerless standout in everything that the hypothetical character sucks at, and he's still far more than competent from a pure DPS perspective. Speed running is as relevant as soloing (which Neuvillette is excellent at) - that is, it's a self-imposed challenge that's not relevant to the actual game.
@PenguinsAreColdish or I'm just a normal person who isn't bothered by the fact that Neuvillette is better than my favorite DPS (and he is better than my favorite DPS).
Hot take feel free to share your opinion. In my opinion the most and honestly only meta cryo character right now is Kaeya. Okay hear me out am not talking about some hyperfridge/freeze melt with rosaria etc Specifically am talking forward melt with arlecchino and only at c6. In team of arlecchino c6kaeya kazucha bennet. In this team you have all standard arlecchino supports but you swap out hydro option like furina yelan xingqiu (which are concidered her best teams) for Kaeya. Why Kaeya and why only at c6? That’s because arlecchino has standard icd and vapes/melts every 3th hit and c6kaeya is the only character in the game who can enable concistant cryo application, so the vape hits simply became melts instead.Melt has higher multiplayers of 2.0 instead of vape 1.5. And if you want to argue kaeya can’t possibly be good of field dps think about what makes xingling great, it’s her no icd so she can do her job with reactions and she snapshots. Guess what? In this team Kaeya is also adding support by enabling reactions and also snapshots. bennet and kazucha is there to buff arlecchino but kaeya as well. And his personal dmg is better then most would imagine on emblem set and with c6 which also buffs his dmg from c0 up to 88 % ,also kaeya burst is aoe not like xingqiu or yelan and his c2 can extend his uptime (depending on number of enemies it can be base duration or up to infinite uptime), while as well following your active character. And that’s not all! Arlecchino is very front loaded with her bond of life mechanic meaning the more dmg you deal at the start of rotation the better. Melt takes advantage of that alowing her to do more dmg quickly and alowes her to end rotation early giving her more bond of life for second rotation. Now obviously there are some disadvantages like in every team for example if you use kazucha burst you want to infuse cryo which is not hard but can be inconsistent due to for example getting hit with elemental dmg on kazucha or difficulty to swirl pyro on second wave after dealing with first without messing up cryo application, but other then that I believe what’s the most important factor of no one playing this team is just simply the % of people having c6kaeya or trying to get it in starglitter shop, maybe also the fact that hes a starter character. So in short he can support one of if not the best team in the game but nobody talks about it/knows about it. If anybody is interested I have perfect rotation for that team that I can share.
Jamie is a speedrunner so the general opinions are not relevant to him or to any speedrunner. + he plays the game a lot and lets or tries to leave his bias aside even if what he says might come off as controversial. It's Zajef the one who talks to the general community and still tries to brainwash (with success, unfortunately) people into thinking that Xingqiu is top 2 character in the game for whatever reason, despite him being a downgrade in like 99% of the teams.
@@gamesdivision6511 In case you haven't realized, 99% of players are not speedrunners. 99% of players simply want to be able to relatively easily clear Abyss with 36 stars. They want comfortable teams, not gigaexpensive speedrunning teams.
@@gamesdivision6511 I agree with you. Zajef is definitely the main problem. But Jamie still lets out some questionable stuff when trying to give advice to the "average player". He is definitely a good source of information tho for low Constellation speedruns.
@@pixelfrog3d548 simply plagued by the smartass hipster mentality. I’m right everyone else is wrong, I’ll straw man an argument and that proves everything
@@aokaze-minotaurin case you havent realized.. he isnt disagreeing with jamie going against general commmunity.. he's just explaining why that is the case lol.
Is it okay to say I think there is good reason to take both seriously, however personally wouldn't take full hardcore Speedrun advice the same as generalist genshin advice. Like the ability and drive to refine artifacts and rotations for singular hyper carries becomes the way if one is inclined, but random multi damage comps (subdps) often carries casual players a lot better and avoids the feeling of being stuck. I enjoy and look up to speedruns personally but also have zero desire to vertically invest into smaller and smaller pools of teams, I'd rather play a bit of everything, and in that regard Zajefs leniance towards strong subdps has merit, rather then stacking multiple broken supports all into one carry The best way I can put it is Faruzen vs Fischl, if you aren't a Xiao or Wanderer hyperfan then I'd always start with characters like Fischl, or Kuki, or Ororon for that matter rather then get fixated on some relatively exclusive supports for exclusive characters.
The reason why players argue about Neuvillette is not the best for speedruns is probably because all contents creators always say: "You have to pull Neuvillette, he is a must pull necessary characters for every account.". After that, players see some characters clears abyss a lot faster and think: "what is the point to get Neuvillette if someone is probably stronger ?".
Sucrose is nowhere near to Kazuha. You can look at numbers all you want but Using Sucrose instead of kazuha is always a downgrade numbers and how she feels
I feel what makes alhaitham and neuvillette relevant is not their damage, characters like mualani, arlechinno, lyney even Xiao and hutao clear faster in speed runs but what those two lose in damage, they make up for it in flexibility, ease of use and being easy to build and get going at any level of investment while also dealing great damage
Not sure how easy to build alhaitham is exactly here. His best team is hyperbloom and that makes him get locked to hydro unit/raiden-kuki and without nahida the damage is just plain sub par.
Arle I would say is arguably more flexible than Alhaitham, given she can swap out freely without affecting her uptime. If you're running C2 Nahida for example, you can't reapply her mark for the debuff that Alhaitham appreciates, although he really doesn't rely on it either
the 2 dps you are putting together there aren't even close. neuvi has high floor, high ceiling, braindead AoE and playstyle. as long as any level of AoE is taken into account he's top 3 in speedruns with the least effort. haitham isn't on top in any scenario. he's just an average dps at floor investment and falls of in comparison after that level.
for the faruzan in xiao team it's because you compared faruzan C6 and xianyun C0, but realisticly xianyun C2 is as hard to get as faruzan C6 for xiao teams, and at C2 xianyun buff more than faruzan. where i agree is Furina being luxury pull in xiao team, most of the abyss where I played xiao team I had to drop furina and bring Zhongli for the Geo shields checks and easy clear like not even close
I don’t think it’ll ever be fair to compare a c6 4 star to c2 5 star for a tier list. It’s true you can’t guarantee 4 stars but they definitely are easier to get for multiple reasons (always on banner whether rate up or not, you get a 4 star every 10 pull etc) The same goes for other characters, you can’t compare c6 sucrose to c2 kazuha, c6 xingqui to c2 furina etc
Talking about math whitout concept, the c6, 4* = c2, 5* Is vague comparison, made up for some streamers, realistically when people pull for a 4* they don't go all in for a c6 4* unless they are glacers of the said 4* unit or its their favorite unit, people pull for 4* constellations during multiple banners couse they don't have the primos to go all in or they are just not interested on getting cons on certain 5* (which you will have to get in case you want a c6 4*).
@@slothful7337i do think c2 5* is easier, atleast you're guaranteed to get c2 due to the pity (given you have primos ofc) but for 4*, theres none i know its anecdotal but I've pulled for both wanderer and xianyun i still have a c0 faruzan lol
Why are Kuki and Raiden over Yelan wtf Also I would replace Xiao, Venti, Lyney with Hutao, Clorinde, Emilie or Kokomi in the honorable mentions, the only team that makes Xiao good is too expensive. Xiao barely has f2p weapons, needs a C6 4 star that is quite banner locked, and even if everyone has Furina, Xianyun isnt that common. And about Venti, he feels good pre floor 12 but i am only considering floor 12 here
Something I'd say TCs don't understand about casuals is that most casual players builds suck especially the 4star support builds and we don't have them all at c6. We can't clear abyss with an only 4star team like they can. So, in reality the value of those 4 star chrs is a lot less to us than thier 5 star counterparts, especially when there is one like in case of xinqiu and sucrose. I've been playing for over a year. I bought almost every xinqiu con form shop and I still don't have his c6. He feels bad without his c6. I'm very sure that even when I get it I won't use him unless I have to. For me yelan is so much more f2p than xingqiu is. You just save up once and ur good.
aah i see casual ? you mean people who hates getting Xingqiu, Bennett, Xiangling, and Fischl from the shop uses Starglitter to maintain his gambling desires ?
I like when it comes who's the best character in the game everyone would go to pick either Kazuha, furina, Xilonen, Bennet, and neuvilette and then there's zyox with 100% confident on his tone says it's nahida.
Zhongli isn't going anywhere, he was never used just for shred, he is used for shied. Arlechino without Zhongli is a glass cannon and he'll be relevant as long as she's relevant.
I can see it both ways. Personally, I believe Furina increases the power level of your account more than anyone. But she has the healer tax, and that adds complications, especially for newer players. Zhongli might make for slower clears, but he takes one spot, and he's pretty neutral, element reaction-wise. As to the rest? The various charged shot archers, Mual has a team that uses him and Xil, and he can go in a lot of teams where, he might not be the best option for clear times, but he's quite solid. Also, people with latency, especially phone players, like what he brings. Just consider the fact that he's a very early five star... and still has the highest use percentage over time.
@@TaseJaw Zhongli literally never leaves Top-5 in Abyss usage rates. Speedrunners and meta-slaves can yap about DPS loss all they want, but in practical terms, for most of the players, Zhongli is a difference between a comfortable first time clear in 2 and a half minutes and 5 embarrassing retries to get 2 minutes. Most TC's and their followers are just absolutely delusional about pretty much everything other than raw numbers.
@@NikocadosPopeyesChickenSandwic nah the lack of kokomi though is insane i’m stupidly biased for her but HOW is she considered worse than NILOU and i’m saying that *as* a nilou main bc kokomi is like semi mandatory on nilou teams
The reason Zajef constantly overhypes the four stars is simply because the guy has a boner for providing pseudo-F2P-friendly takes. That’s also why you never see him do full team DPS calcs like Jstern does , as that would immediately reveal his four star glaze to be baseless feelscrafting.
You say that like it should be a bad thing to convince players to save their money, when in reality, the worst content creators are the ones that manipulate you into opening your wallet for no good reason.
@@Laziota How often do you think F2P players are able to pull for 5 stars? Every patch? You think they can just pull anytime they feel like it and they’ll get whatever they want?
hyperbloom is busted and there are only two good offfield triggers for it. Hydro appliers and dps are a dime a dozen They're both strong, but I think Shinobu next to Yelan is reasonable depending on what your criteria for who is better is. What I don't understand is Xingqiu so many slots above Yelan lol
@@jsk1429 does she have more impact on teams? I'd say that's hugely debatable. As for team ceilings, that's why I said it depends on what your criteria is. You might value damage ceiling more, other folks might value damage floor more. I think both are fine perspectives that will appeal to different types of players.
@@lily-_- But raiden is already on the list too. THe only other thing she offers is the bit of healing. Thats enough to put her into top 20? Extremly overrated even with hyperbloom being good. A lot of comps have much higher ceilings nowadays she is pretty bad in most other teams
Personally, imo, Neuv is hella overrated in the community. Dude is good dont get me wrong, but, he isnt HIM. No matter what people say of speedruns, clear times still matter alot to the game. His ease of use is also replicated by other units like Mualani who has IR instead of healing etc.
"Hella overrated" for Neuv is wild. Bro indeed is him, speedruns aren't everything and alot of players don't even care for it, but even then he's a great speedrunner. Clear times would never matter unless you're in some speedrun competition or something, you get the same rewards no matter how fast you clear. The reason he is him is because of how good he is in every content, and as Jamie mentioned, you can just slap him into the most random teams and he'll still clear content easily bc his kit is that broken. Also mualani is kinda in a weird spot rn, she only has a few good teams and not alot of synergy with characters, but I can see her possibly being better than Neuv consistently when Mavuika is out.
@@slothful7337mualani’s low cost teams are much better than neuv’s, neuv basically requires at least one of furina, kazuha, or xilonen to clear quickly. mualani can get by with candace, sucrose xiangling if you have half a brain
@@PenguinsAreColdish Because of the low cost system, you compare Mualani C2R1 to Neuvillette C0R0... Also the cost thing is a joke. I have Kazuha C2R1 because he got many banners since I started playing so I didn't have to spend for him. At the same, I only have Sucrose C3. So for me on my account, C6 Sucrose will be more expensive than Kazuha C2R1. It is funny, but the reality of Genshin Impact. The cost system was something at early version, but now it is a joke ! You can compare Mualani C0R1 to Neuvillette C0R1 or Mualani C1R1 to Neuvillette C1R1, but not a thing like Mualani C2R1 with a full 4 stars teams.
@@slothful7337 he is wheelchair friendly thats true, but there are casuals who dont want to be wheel chaired and dont mind actually learning to play the game. Just because ur a casual dosnt mean u hv 0 basic knowledge of how to do a decent rotation. Clear times DOES matter since its literally the only way to gauge a dps in the game. U can slap him to a random team but u are most likely to have a team that would perform better in your account such as Sucrose national. "Mualani only has a few teams" Her team is literally the most f2p accessible team there is. C0 sucrose, C0 candace, C0 Xiangling and there u have Mualanis arguable best team. Candace is free, Xiangling is free and Sucrose is in shop. There is literally almost 0 reason that this team is unavailable to a player. Meanwhile, for Neuvilette, his best team is literally 4 limited 5*s and his 4* options are not good either.
@@deltaspecies1697 Sucrose is not on the shop, also she have to be C6 to be good anyway. Xiangling C0 ? 😂 At C0, her burst is so short, but she is on the shop, lantern rite and rerun a lot more than others 4 stars anyway. Candace is not free at all.
Zajeff’s top 20 list felt almost complete , the only issue is I don’t see any reason why navia, alhaitham and mualani are in the top 20 list while xianyun, baizhu and faruzan are in honorable mentions, baizhu is little by little becoming a replacement for nahida in dendro teams, without faruzan, anemo dps’s don’t exist, xianyun opens more options to dps’s like hutao, to become stronger and stay meta, and whether you like it or not, xianyun is what is making Xiao meta rn cus faruzan has been out for a while before her and Xiao still felt very mid prior to the release of xianyun And the rest of the honorable mentions were just more of who zajeff’s wants to get rather than characters to consider in a top 20 list, cus apart from Xiao, and lyney, Childe and Yae miko shouldn’t even be considered above hutao, kinich and clorinde in any way, shape or form😂
Keep on shilling Kazuha over xilonen, you wanna do this to spite the viewers who disagree with you. It’s funny because people would get more respect for just admitting when they are wrong.
@@michaelyang838 grouping is significantly more valuable than healing. countless characters can heal, but we only have one reliable grouper. his personal damage is also significant
People who think that civilian gun ownership is an important part of a modern free society can enjoy your content too. I'm not jumping to the conclusion that your offhand joke about gun violence and America was meant to be alienating, but you can be sure that many viewers saw it as a signal that it's okay to mock my country and culture. It's just something to keep in mind if you're happy to have us as viewers. If not, then fair enough.
@@StanTheWoz I thought my comment made it clear that I didn't have a problem with Jamie or the joke itself at face value. My issue was how jokes from CCs like these predictably lead to behavior from Twitch or UA-cam chat. I have no doubt that Jamie wasn't trying to be malicious. But people in chat who hate their political opponents tend to see it as a green light to go off on the views/people they dislike, and unless they say something really extreme, they're virtually never held in check.
I asked in a community post and you guys were interested in seeing this discussion, so here it is! Remember it's not a debate, rather more like discussing our different preferences and values
Link to post: ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxLukVE9FHCDfbLyNx_lBVk3qApm8mU2Il
xq over bennett and furina truly a zajef moment
cant wait for a 5 star hydro shielder that has good hydro app, so this XQ glazing will see its end lol
He just glazes for no reason
@@jsk1429I know right I literally dont know when last I used xinqui anymore, he’s not that relevant anymore
@@joeltoomer3332sorry, he forgot to ask the opinion of CEO of relevancy
@@thewingedone1172 the best meta teams now don’t even use xinqui anymore, you know I’m right
Xingqiu is great but as a player who was struggling to go from 33 stars to 36 stars, Furina and Yelan were who helped me get the dmg needed to clear for 36 stars. I can't rank Xingqiu ahead of them, I'd only pick Xingqiu if I badly needed interruption resistance or was dying too easily.
I think even with Genshin releasing more enemies like Wenut and Thunder Manifestation, he still places XQ above Yelan and Furina. He cares so much about XQ defensive utility, but not much about other characters' utilities.
local legend skill issue team:
xingqiu zhongli bennett navia
when you need to be FUCKIN INVINCIBLE
ofc most other content doesn't ohko you like that
In most cases, he does already fell off as most team already have stagger resistance, but 40% damage res is huge for squishy team, I'd rather use xinq than any other hydro applicator on arlechino vape team. I think zajef value more about flexible support that can work on any team that need hydro while not being way worse substitute for other team that his kit doesn't really needed even when that is the case most of the time
If you need Furina and Yelan to 36*, then there's something wrong with you. Many people are able to 36* even with four stars only team.
@@ravenwong651 yeah just run 2 hyperbloom team for both sides. for early account you don't expecting have high cons 4 star. c6 4 stars more expensive then c0 5 stars
If this top 20 weapons from Zajef, we already know what in the first spot without SLIGHTEST hesitation.
and would he be wrong!
Favge
The strongest 4* even outperforming supportive 5*
i think xianyun should be on the list. She can make dogshit characters be able to clear the abyss. She is also an upgrade for some strong characters.
actually thinking about it, yeah. kinda funny nilou is on the list because she's easier to clear with at a lower investment but xianyun isn't despite doing something similar.
@@l0l0_ow87 100%. She turned my Diluc from a dust collector to a legitmately strong main carry.
@@hedgehugsXianyun doesn’t require low investment though. The multipliers on plunge aren’t that impressive. What makes plunge work is it has no icd. So you can vape or melt it. This means you need to max your normal talents, and need high artifact investment to make use of those reaction multipliers. In reverse vape comps; xq and yelan lose half of their damage due to the lack of normal attacks so furina is a staple.
Those teams essentially look like Bennett, XYN, furina, max normal talents, and cracked artifacts.
In comparison, Nilou asks for nahida and the dendro artifact set.
@@cadeemmusgrove7791 Can't say I really agree.
Well, I'll agree Nilou is lower investment by virtue of not needing the best artifacts and maaaybe only needing Nahida depending on the content.
However, I still think Xianyun is still easy to play/invest into. All you really want is decent artifacts (like almost every other team lol) and C6 Bennett and/or Furina (both required if you're playing a "non-optimal" character like say... Xinyan or something but as stated you can get away with almost any unit as long as it's not a bow character)
Personally, I don't even use Xianyun in vape teams lmao. I've been using Navia Plunge (Navia/Chiori/Furina/Xianyun) every since it was playable and it hasn't failed me yet, so... 🤷
@@hedgehugsXilonen is even better for Navia then Xianyun is lmao
I think these tier lists would be a lot more interesting with a clearly defined criteria. Like which characters would be considered the best with the limitation that you only need 2 teams and they can't have more than 4 total 5 stars including weapons. The best f2p teams so to speak. With the ultimate goal being no to just beat abyss with 36 stars but also to beat is as fast as possible.
Well problems still arise with criteria bias and there is generally just no optimal way to present a tierlist. Characters mentioned above can still stay but in a different context
i agree, though i also think zajef’s criteria is just right.. “how strong is that character’s strongest team, and how many teams they can be slotted in” how versatile a character is is a great criteria. and if they are niche, how good are they in their niche ? (hence nilou is on the list, because her niche team can actually compete with top meta teams)
with your criteria mualani would be the best dps. she clears the fastest at the lowest cost, by far
@@IiIygarden Zajef's criteria is still a little vague if you ask me. Everyone's understanding of the word strong is different, because what is the "strongest team"? Is it the team with the highest DPS/DPR? Is it the one that requires the least amount of resets? Or is it the one that clears the fastest because of its front loaded-ness. Even if you pick one of these definitions you still need to define how high the cost of the team can be.
I agree with your discussion at the beginning on what criteria to use. For me flexibility and relative value of their role (how easy are they to replace with someone else at how much of a loss?) at C0R0 for 5* is what matters the most, but I know in these kinds of discussions some people tend to prefer comfort or ease of play, or having a higher damage floor, or consistency or value in vertical investment.
I wish all tier lists and top character lists always explained what they valued. I feel that makes discussions more interesting than just saying "X character is better than Y character because I said so"
6:51 it's not just that furina is a strong support but how she makes other chr storng with her. She single hadedly reshaped so many meta teams imo..
She's part of some many storng cores like:
Bennett and xiangling, yelan and xilonen/kazuha, neuvilette and kazuha, jean, xianyun and xiao, hu tao and so many more..
Itto's best team is no longer mono geo now.. that's something to consider
Furina revived every single character on the permanent banner.
Yeah I didnt really agree with her being the "Icing on the cake" when she single handedly made every single character significantly more viable.
"reshaped many meta teams"? Okay I'm probably missing out on her, can you name teams that she made meta? I can only think of Neuvillette (meta before her), HuTao (meta before her), somewhat Xiao, maybe mono hydro? Although I'm not sure how meta those two are.
@@michael_bones I think they mean reshaped as in slotted into and replaced characters in multiple meta teams. For example, she replaced xq in al haitham quickbloom. Jamie said she's like the icing on the cake, which is true. But what he didn't talk about was that once you have icing on the cake, plain cake feels so much worse. Or if you have a lackluster cake, you can cover it up with icing and make it shine. That's why she has so much hype imo.
@@ooochoa Not really? She revived Jean, I guess.
XQ is really good in early accounts but yeah when time pass by he is not the best option especially if you go for vertical investment
not best option what do you mean :lol , xingqiu is still awesome and up there with the meta today.
@@edamb6044he’s still good but nowadays the best teams don’t use xinqui anymore
Early accounts don’t have four star constellations and fully refined gacha weapons. KQMS expecting every four star to be C6 with an R3 BiS gacha weapon is straight up delusional - but that’s still the assumption people like Zajef use, despite this setup being equal to a C2 or a C1R1 limited five star. Guy just has a boner for providing pseudo-F2P-friendly takes, that’s why he’s always overhyping the four stars, that’s about it.
@@vladdyru yeah is really hard to get C6 XQ nowadays or C4 Xiangling, even you can get first C2 Furina or C1 Neuvilette, C1 Arlecchino, it means that maybe you will do the content faster than just wait for 4 stars constellations is a good point
@@rocko1721 Xiangling is every 2nd banner everyone has her c6 by now
You can tell I learned Genshin from Jamie since I'm a ToM on Furina kinda guy myself
I would prob do the same for xiao teams if i didn't have c2 furina, rn she does so much personal dmg so i keep her on skill set xD
@@thesages3004But why ToM on Furina when you can ToM on Faruzan?
@@ryougi673no c6 maybe 😭
@@ryougi673 Big brain moment: You put ToM on Furina so you can put Scroll on Faruzan
Edit: 10:05 I didn't get that far in the video when I originally typed this lol
@@Kellexyz oh yea mb
16:14. Huh, Jamie quoting Kendrick was not on my bingo card for this year
Zajef just like to be different at this point
Fr
he’s always been a contrarian
Now get TGS to join in and we golden. TC Podcast 😍
TGS said alhaitham is better than arle. i stopped listening to him since
@@adamarleiwhere did he say this? Can you link? Cause from what I've watched from him he has always said arle is top 2 and even better than neuv in many scenarios (though he mostly thinks it depends on what content the respective dps are facing)
@@hachiman205 i believe it was in the top 10 characters video. he put nilou on number 4 or 5 also if i remember correctly
@@hachiman205 ua-cam.com/video/3LHHBhv4nsE/v-deo.htmlsi=mgW160JcBqsuzlaQ
@@adamarlei just checked, it is top 10 f2p friendly dps not strongest dps, in fact he even says that even though he put alhaitam above arle it doesn't necessarily means he thinks he is better than her.
Holy shit, why is no one talking about that ending... that was so awkward. These two are never talking again.
Zajef acts like xq has the damage of yelan, healing of kokomi and shielding of zhongli.
This was a fun one. I agree with most of the list, I think there's a valid debate on how to rank DPS compared to other character roles since that team slot is a lot more competitive and people tend to have a lot stronger preferences for who they want to play than they do for their buffers, etc.
Personally I don't think there's any way I'd rank a DPS as number one strongest character unless their clear times were like, 50% or more faster than *every other DPS* comparing all at c0 and moderate investment, or something equally insane. Like if we had Neuvillette and then the next best DPS was like Yoimiya and other characters around that power level. There just isn't that huge gulf in performance.
I greatly appreciate the segment about setting criteria prior to the list.
I've always liked to look at top characters in this game from the perspective of pull value before anything else. If a unit is able to be flexed into multiple teams, can consolidate roles, or anything similar, I tend to definitely look more favorably at them. Doubly so if they're very easy to access (i.e. Shop, Lantern Rite, unit from an event, etc.) . So yes, I am part of XQ best character gang.
I just tend to not care about strength discussions simply because most, if not all, characters can meet a similar floor of "can you full clear Abyss" in one of their teams, and there's really no incentive to do more than that in Genshin's current state, unless you like seeing a faster time.
"If someone put a gun to my head; if I was in America" you don't need to say both things; it's like saying chai tea.
Everyone should get their favourite dps and gets their best supports. If you need neuvilette to clear content you have skill issues. Everyone can clear using neuvilette so what's the point of playing. Making your favourite character the best that is fun.
My hot take: at this point zajef does more harm than good to the community.
coldest take
Why?
@@faber3813 he has a very wide audience of loyal stan dickriders and his takes, let's just say, can be pretty controversial. This leads to the fact that a lot of aforementioned stans take those takes at their face value and God forbid anybody else disagree with zajef's opinion. Plus zajef himself seems to be very snowflake-ish.
22:51 That tier list looks pretty good. It's got cons. It's up to date (has Xilonen). Gets most of the tricky characters right.
15:36 Neuv not being a speedrun character is certainly not a take I expected. From what I seen his times are, and always have been, insane
He’s saying Neuvillette has so many strengths, and not all of those strengths may be reflected if directly comparing clear times
He's for sure pretty good at speed running, but that's not why people consider him to be the best dps in the game it's because all his other strengths, if speed running was the only metric Mualani would be considered the best dps in the game.
Aren't characters that can speed run nuke dps? For example lyney and mualani
Speedrun DPS is not comfy DPS
mualani and arle are consistently faster than him, his low cost speedruns are also terrible
Zajef will never make up his mind if it’s pronounced Candace or Kadake
sometimes it feels like he does it just to be different, some pronounciations in english are very different from the original. Which makes it hard to understand what character he's talking about. Imagine being a new player and hearing him say Kandak (Candace) or Oi-luh (Eula), it's like "who the fuck are you talking about"
@@Doobydoe he’s not like other TCs!
@@Doobydoeit’s why I can’t watch him
he only pronounces it wrong to avoid chat hitting him with the "Candace d*ck fit in your mouth xD" aand its funny.
@@Doobydoe Does zajef really said eula as oi-luh? is zajef a mathemathician or something cause that sounds like euler lmao
Top tier critique! I am awed.
I did not expect Zajef to be the first CC I saw rank Neuvillette number one overall. He's my pick as well, and imo it's not all that close. I understand valuing supports over DPS units in general, but for an exceptional DPS, there can be an exception.
You and zaQUEEF are both 🧠💀
it makes no sense to place a dps that isn’t even clearing the fastest far above every other dps, unless your criteria is simply how easy it is to play, not the strongest (which this is)
@@PenguinsAreColdish suppose there was a DPS who has a one in a thousand chance of entering an enraged state as soon as combat starts that instantly kills every enemy until combat ends, otherwise they have extremely limited abilities. Top speed runs would include this character, but for reasons that are obvious to people who are playing the actual game and not hunting for speed runs, this character would be dogshit. Neuvillette is a peerless standout in everything that the hypothetical character sucks at, and he's still far more than competent from a pure DPS perspective.
Speed running is as relevant as soloing (which Neuvillette is excellent at) - that is, it's a self-imposed challenge that's not relevant to the actual game.
@@krabling genshin impact isn't as hard to play as you seem to think it is, man. all that neuvilette gameplay might have rotted your brain a bit
@PenguinsAreColdish or I'm just a normal person who isn't bothered by the fact that Neuvillette is better than my favorite DPS (and he is better than my favorite DPS).
4:49 that was an underrated joke caught me off guard 😂
zajef's sucrose glazing makes me wanna rip my hair off
sucrose buffs more than kazuha in teams that value em.
@@AlwaysThirstys unfortunately shes so incredibly ass to play that kazuha is always the preferred choice
The XQ glazing in the comments is crazy
as he deserves! he is crazy good
Hot take feel free to share your opinion.
In my opinion the most and honestly only meta cryo character right now is Kaeya.
Okay hear me out am not talking about some hyperfridge/freeze melt with rosaria etc
Specifically am talking forward melt with arlecchino and only at c6. In team of arlecchino c6kaeya kazucha bennet. In this team you have all standard arlecchino supports but you swap out hydro option like furina yelan xingqiu (which are concidered her best teams) for Kaeya. Why Kaeya and why only at c6?
That’s because arlecchino has standard icd and vapes/melts every 3th hit and c6kaeya is the only character in the game who can enable concistant cryo application, so the vape hits simply became melts instead.Melt has higher multiplayers of 2.0 instead of vape 1.5. And if you want to argue kaeya can’t possibly be good of field dps think about what makes xingling great, it’s her no icd so she can do her job with reactions and she snapshots. Guess what?
In this team Kaeya is also adding support by enabling reactions and also snapshots. bennet and kazucha is there to buff arlecchino but kaeya as well. And his personal dmg is better then most would imagine on emblem set and with c6 which also buffs his dmg from c0 up to 88 % ,also kaeya burst is aoe not like xingqiu or yelan and his c2 can extend his uptime (depending on number of enemies it can be base duration or up to infinite uptime), while as well following your active character.
And that’s not all!
Arlecchino is very front loaded with her bond of life mechanic meaning the more dmg you deal at the start of rotation the better. Melt takes advantage of that alowing her to do more dmg quickly and alowes her to end rotation early giving her more bond of life for second rotation.
Now obviously there are some disadvantages like in every team for example if you use kazucha burst you want to infuse cryo which is not hard but can be inconsistent due to for example getting hit with elemental dmg on kazucha or difficulty to swirl pyro on second wave after dealing with first without messing up cryo application, but other then that I believe what’s the most important factor of no one playing this team is just simply the % of people having c6kaeya or trying to get it in starglitter shop, maybe also the fact that hes a starter character.
So in short he can support one of if not the best team in the game but nobody talks about it/knows about it.
If anybody is interested I have perfect rotation for that team that I can share.
Kazucha
The ending of this clip was brutal. After all that discourse...
As long as Navia up there we chill 😌
I feel like Jamie and Zajef like to go against the general opinion of the rest of the cummunity
Jamie is a speedrunner so the general opinions are not relevant to him or to any speedrunner. + he plays the game a lot and lets or tries to leave his bias aside even if what he says might come off as controversial.
It's Zajef the one who talks to the general community and still tries to brainwash (with success, unfortunately) people into thinking that Xingqiu is top 2 character in the game for whatever reason, despite him being a downgrade in like 99% of the teams.
@@gamesdivision6511 In case you haven't realized, 99% of players are not speedrunners. 99% of players simply want to be able to relatively easily clear Abyss with 36 stars. They want comfortable teams, not gigaexpensive speedrunning teams.
@@gamesdivision6511 I agree with you. Zajef is definitely the main problem. But Jamie still lets out some questionable stuff when trying to give advice to the "average player". He is definitely a good source of information tho for low Constellation speedruns.
@@pixelfrog3d548 simply plagued by the smartass hipster mentality. I’m right everyone else is wrong, I’ll straw man an argument and that proves everything
@@aokaze-minotaurin case you havent realized.. he isnt disagreeing with jamie going against general commmunity.. he's just explaining why that is the case lol.
Is it okay to say I think there is good reason to take both seriously, however personally wouldn't take full hardcore Speedrun advice the same as generalist genshin advice.
Like the ability and drive to refine artifacts and rotations for singular hyper carries becomes the way if one is inclined, but random multi damage comps (subdps) often carries casual players a lot better and avoids the feeling of being stuck. I enjoy and look up to speedruns personally but also have zero desire to vertically invest into smaller and smaller pools of teams, I'd rather play a bit of everything, and in that regard Zajefs leniance towards strong subdps has merit, rather then stacking multiple broken supports all into one carry
The best way I can put it is Faruzen vs Fischl, if you aren't a Xiao or Wanderer hyperfan then I'd always start with characters like Fischl, or Kuki, or Ororon for that matter rather then get fixated on some relatively exclusive supports for exclusive characters.
He just clowned zjeff’s home Canada and didn’t realize it. That was, in fact, crazy!
All the c0 5 stars are better than c0 4 stars, it is easier to get a 5 star you want then a 4 star
No shit, that's why no one compares a C0 4* to a C0 5*
Kuki, raiden,etc above yelan truely a zajef Brainfart moment.
he like xq too much to see the truth
Yelan is literally a 5 star mediocre replacement of another mediocre unit
Who let you cook bruh😂😂 Neither is she mediocre nor is xq mediocre@@thewingedone1172
@@thewingedone1172Yelan is one of the strongest characters in the game ever since Furina released?
Man i remember playing that cat game on my phone when i was in highschool. Your pfp made me have some memories
The reason why players argue about Neuvillette is not the best for speedruns is probably because all contents creators always say: "You have to pull Neuvillette, he is a must pull necessary characters for every account.".
After that, players see some characters clears abyss a lot faster and think: "what is the point to get Neuvillette if someone is probably stronger ?".
The fact that his top 4 are males is gonna make the waifu simps get triggered
Sucrose is nowhere near to Kazuha. You can look at numbers all you want but Using Sucrose instead of kazuha is always a downgrade numbers and how she feels
In taser/Hbloom i find sucrose very comfortable.
In ST, vape/melt is the goat in my teams
@@faber3813 me when sucrose misses the swirl for whatever reason. Also why would I listen to someone that uses Anemo in a hyperbloom team
@@kingInci727 sucrose as a driver with fischl/beidou+dendro+hydro.
It's pretty good.
@@faber3813 at that point why not just using double hydro, half of hb damage is talent damage anyway
I feel what makes alhaitham and neuvillette relevant is not their damage, characters like mualani, arlechinno, lyney even Xiao and hutao clear faster in speed runs but what those two lose in damage, they make up for it in flexibility, ease of use and being easy to build and get going at any level of investment while also dealing great damage
Not sure how easy to build alhaitham is exactly here. His best team is hyperbloom and that makes him get locked to hydro unit/raiden-kuki and without nahida the damage is just plain sub par.
Arle I would say is arguably more flexible than Alhaitham, given she can swap out freely without affecting her uptime. If you're running C2 Nahida for example, you can't reapply her mark for the debuff that Alhaitham appreciates, although he really doesn't rely on it either
cope, alhaitham is complete shit
alhaitham glazers couldn’t be more delusional
the 2 dps you are putting together there aren't even close. neuvi has high floor, high ceiling, braindead AoE and playstyle. as long as any level of AoE is taken into account he's top 3 in speedruns with the least effort. haitham isn't on top in any scenario. he's just an average dps at floor investment and falls of in comparison after that level.
ya know i never really noticed that Zhongli is the only 5 star shielder (Baizhu is a healer with interrupt res lets be real).
This Xingqiu nonsense it's so stupid, him and sucrose should be at the end of the list not at the top lmao
*sigh* I wish my gf glaze me as much zajef glaze xq.
HUH
LMAO
apa iya bang
My top 3 are bennet kazuha and xinqiu.
for the faruzan in xiao team it's because you compared faruzan C6 and xianyun C0, but realisticly xianyun C2 is as hard to get as faruzan C6 for xiao teams, and at C2 xianyun buff more than faruzan.
where i agree is Furina being luxury pull in xiao team, most of the abyss where I played xiao team I had to drop furina and bring Zhongli for the Geo shields checks and easy clear like not even close
I don’t think it’ll ever be fair to compare a c6 4 star to c2 5 star for a tier list. It’s true you can’t guarantee 4 stars but they definitely are easier to get for multiple reasons (always on banner whether rate up or not, you get a 4 star every 10 pull etc) The same goes for other characters, you can’t compare c6 sucrose to c2 kazuha, c6 xingqui to c2 furina etc
Talking about math whitout concept, the c6, 4* = c2, 5* Is vague comparison, made up for some streamers, realistically when people pull for a 4* they don't go all in for a c6 4* unless they are glacers of the said 4* unit or its their favorite unit, people pull for 4* constellations during multiple banners couse they don't have the primos to go all in or they are just not interested on getting cons on certain 5* (which you will have to get in case you want a c6 4*).
@@slothful7337i do think c2 5* is easier, atleast you're guaranteed to get c2 due to the pity (given you have primos ofc) but for 4*, theres none
i know its anecdotal but I've pulled for both wanderer and xianyun i still have a c0 faruzan lol
@@fakku7253it is, I had c2 raiden, still no c6 sara
I still don't have C6 Faruzan.
Hopefully she's not on Chasca's banner.
Why are Kuki and Raiden over Yelan wtf
Also I would replace Xiao, Venti, Lyney with Hutao, Clorinde, Emilie or Kokomi in the honorable mentions, the only team that makes Xiao good is too expensive. Xiao barely has f2p weapons, needs a C6 4 star that is quite banner locked, and even if everyone has Furina, Xianyun isnt that common. And about Venti, he feels good pre floor 12 but i am only considering floor 12 here
Something I'd say TCs don't understand about casuals is that most casual players builds suck especially the 4star support builds and we don't have them all at c6. We can't clear abyss with an only 4star team like they can. So, in reality the value of those 4 star chrs is a lot less to us than thier 5 star counterparts, especially when there is one like in case of xinqiu and sucrose.
I've been playing for over a year. I bought almost every xinqiu con form shop and I still don't have his c6. He feels bad without his c6. I'm very sure that even when I get it I won't use him unless I have to. For me yelan is so much more f2p than xingqiu is. You just save up once and ur good.
aah i see
casual ?
you mean people who hates getting Xingqiu, Bennett, Xiangling, and Fischl from the shop uses Starglitter to maintain his gambling desires ?
@@rufus1637 I said above that I bought almost every xingqiu con from shop buddy
@@rufus1637 that's not the point here tho.. my point is that 4 stars are generally less valuable than 5 stars
I agree so much with the Furina take, she is very VERY strong, but she is not NEEDED
she is a WANT
@@jan__gI don't want her😼
@@whydoineedname4932 stop lying to yourself, give in to the queen
Depends on what your goals are at the end of the day. As someone who does care about improving their teams, I need furina
@@lekoesic Where is she without a question BiS ? I don't have her and don't really know if i should really pull her on her rerun
I like when it comes who's the best character in the game everyone would go to pick either Kazuha, furina, Xilonen, Bennet, and neuvilette and then there's zyox with 100% confident on his tone says it's nahida.
zy0x is clueless
I pick Nahida, Neuvillette and Kazuha for top 3. The only three characters that kit & gameplay actually impress me.
Once I heard zhongli over furina , I left . Horrible take. Xilone completely fucked over zhongli
Zhongli isn't going anywhere, he was never used just for shred, he is used for shied. Arlechino without Zhongli is a glass cannon and he'll be relevant as long as she's relevant.
@@GreenHellTubebros using zhongli with arle lmao just say you’re ass and move on.
@@GreenHellTubeThats just arlechino lol , what about the rest?
I can see it both ways. Personally, I believe Furina increases the power level of your account more than anyone. But she has the healer tax, and that adds complications, especially for newer players. Zhongli might make for slower clears, but he takes one spot, and he's pretty neutral, element reaction-wise.
As to the rest? The various charged shot archers, Mual has a team that uses him and Xil, and he can go in a lot of teams where, he might not be the best option for clear times, but he's quite solid. Also, people with latency, especially phone players, like what he brings. Just consider the fact that he's a very early five star... and still has the highest use percentage over time.
@@TaseJaw Zhongli literally never leaves Top-5 in Abyss usage rates. Speedrunners and meta-slaves can yap about DPS loss all they want, but in practical terms, for most of the players, Zhongli is a difference between a comfortable first time clear in 2 and a half minutes and 5 embarrassing retries to get 2 minutes. Most TC's and their followers are just absolutely delusional about pretty much everything other than raw numbers.
If i was in america KSJASKDJASDKASJDKASDASDAS
Sigewinne deserves a spot on this list!!!
It's top 20 not bottom 20
@@NikocadosPopeyesChickenSandwic nah the lack of kokomi though is insane i’m stupidly biased for her but HOW is she considered worse than NILOU and i’m saying that *as* a nilou main bc kokomi is like semi mandatory on nilou teams
@@gackajink585 kokomi doesn't really have a top meta team. Nilou does. And it's pretty accessible for even an f2p account. So yea.
@@whydoineedname4932they didn’t say yoimiya
@@H2Ocup nilou’s best team is a kokomi team though? and she is still a really good generalist unit who fills a lot of roles
4:52 💀
I disagree with a lot of the list lmao.Nilou, Chevreuse, Navia, and Raiden mostly.
Yae Miko
Oh boy can't wait to read all the comments from people who haven't seen a single damage calc in their life complain about Zajeff's rankings.
calcs mean little in practice, and even less for speedrunning
Alhaitham kinda overrated
Yes but many underrates him as well by not knowing teams with Furina.
@@Lanso-01even w furina he’s worse than xiao lyney and hutao lol
@@jsk1429 it is easy to tell many original teams better than his...
Mega overrated
@@Lanso-01 lyney mono pyro xiao mono anemo, hutao VV vape or hutao plunge lol
The reason Zajef constantly overhypes the four stars is simply because the guy has a boner for providing pseudo-F2P-friendly takes. That’s also why you never see him do full team DPS calcs like Jstern does , as that would immediately reveal his four star glaze to be baseless feelscrafting.
You say that like it should be a bad thing to convince players to save their money, when in reality, the worst content creators are the ones that manipulate you into opening your wallet for no good reason.
@@aokaze-minotaurmate what does it have to do with money🤣 you can get 5 stars for free lol no need for money
Sheets aren’t exactly the best way to rank either.
@@Laziota How often do you think F2P players are able to pull for 5 stars? Every patch? You think they can just pull anytime they feel like it and they’ll get whatever they want?
@@aokaze-minotaur what's your argument here I don't understand? What point are you trying to make lmao
tf is doing kuki along side yelan??
hyperbloom is busted and there are only two good offfield triggers for it. Hydro appliers and dps are a dime a dozen
They're both strong, but I think Shinobu next to Yelan is reasonable depending on what your criteria for who is better is. What I don't understand is Xingqiu so many slots above Yelan lol
Her Hyperbloom teams are very strong. But outside of that shes a good support for Alhaitham and Tighnari.
@@lily-_-it’s still ridiculous yelan has more impact on teams than shinobu + hyperbloom team ceilings are so low
@@jsk1429 does she have more impact on teams? I'd say that's hugely debatable. As for team ceilings, that's why I said it depends on what your criteria is. You might value damage ceiling more, other folks might value damage floor more. I think both are fine perspectives that will appeal to different types of players.
@@lily-_- But raiden is already on the list too.
THe only other thing she offers is the bit of healing.
Thats enough to put her into top 20? Extremly overrated even with hyperbloom being good. A lot of comps have much higher ceilings nowadays she is pretty bad in most other teams
Exactly my opinions on Furina. So many people overrate her
Personally, imo, Neuv is hella overrated in the community. Dude is good dont get me wrong, but, he isnt HIM. No matter what people say of speedruns, clear times still matter alot to the game. His ease of use is also replicated by other units like Mualani who has IR instead of healing etc.
"Hella overrated" for Neuv is wild. Bro indeed is him, speedruns aren't everything and alot of players don't even care for it, but even then he's a great speedrunner. Clear times would never matter unless you're in some speedrun competition or something, you get the same rewards no matter how fast you clear. The reason he is him is because of how good he is in every content, and as Jamie mentioned, you can just slap him into the most random teams and he'll still clear content easily bc his kit is that broken. Also mualani is kinda in a weird spot rn, she only has a few good teams and not alot of synergy with characters, but I can see her possibly being better than Neuv consistently when Mavuika is out.
@@slothful7337mualani’s low cost teams are much better than neuv’s, neuv basically requires at least one of furina, kazuha, or xilonen to clear quickly. mualani can get by with candace, sucrose xiangling if you have half a brain
@@PenguinsAreColdish Because of the low cost system, you compare Mualani C2R1 to Neuvillette C0R0...
Also the cost thing is a joke. I have Kazuha C2R1 because he got many banners since I started playing so I didn't have to spend for him.
At the same, I only have Sucrose C3.
So for me on my account, C6 Sucrose will be more expensive than Kazuha C2R1. It is funny, but the reality of Genshin Impact.
The cost system was something at early version, but now it is a joke !
You can compare Mualani C0R1 to Neuvillette C0R1 or Mualani C1R1 to Neuvillette C1R1, but not a thing like Mualani C2R1 with a full 4 stars teams.
@@slothful7337 he is wheelchair friendly thats true, but there are casuals who dont want to be wheel chaired and dont mind actually learning to play the game. Just because ur a casual dosnt mean u hv 0 basic knowledge of how to do a decent rotation. Clear times DOES matter since its literally the only way to gauge a dps in the game. U can slap him to a random team but u are most likely to have a team that would perform better in your account such as Sucrose national.
"Mualani only has a few teams"
Her team is literally the most f2p accessible team there is. C0 sucrose, C0 candace, C0 Xiangling and there u have Mualanis arguable best team. Candace is free, Xiangling is free and Sucrose is in shop. There is literally almost 0 reason that this team is unavailable to a player. Meanwhile, for Neuvilette, his best team is literally 4 limited 5*s and his 4* options are not good either.
@@deltaspecies1697 Sucrose is not on the shop, also she have to be C6 to be good anyway.
Xiangling C0 ? 😂 At C0, her burst is so short, but she is on the shop, lantern rite and rerun a lot more than others 4 stars anyway.
Candace is not free at all.
Jamie is handsome af but he gotta ditch those glasses 😭
Nah he’s cooked
he might need to see
Zajeff’s top 20 list felt almost complete , the only issue is I don’t see any reason why navia, alhaitham and mualani are in the top 20 list while xianyun, baizhu and faruzan are in honorable mentions, baizhu is little by little becoming a replacement for nahida in dendro teams, without faruzan, anemo dps’s don’t exist, xianyun opens more options to dps’s like hutao, to become stronger and stay meta, and whether you like it or not, xianyun is what is making Xiao meta rn cus faruzan has been out for a while before her and Xiao still felt very mid prior to the release of xianyun
And the rest of the honorable mentions were just more of who zajeff’s wants to get rather than characters to consider in a top 20 list, cus apart from Xiao, and lyney, Childe and Yae miko shouldn’t even be considered above hutao, kinich and clorinde in any way, shape or form😂
Keep on shilling Kazuha over xilonen, you wanna do this to spite the viewers who disagree with you. It’s funny because people would get more respect for just admitting when they are wrong.
omg they're not in competition!!
@@Pheonee yet he always talks about one and rank one higher by agreeing with the list
kazuha is definitely better than xilonen. you’ll realize it once they add enemies that need to be grouped once they’re done shilling her
@@PenguinsAreColdish nope, grouping vs heal, lack of duration, hold e animation times. Xilonen is at worst equal and more often straight up better
@@michaelyang838 grouping is significantly more valuable than healing. countless characters can heal, but we only have one reliable grouper. his personal damage is also significant
People who think that civilian gun ownership is an important part of a modern free society can enjoy your content too. I'm not jumping to the conclusion that your offhand joke about gun violence and America was meant to be alienating, but you can be sure that many viewers saw it as a signal that it's okay to mock my country and culture. It's just something to keep in mind if you're happy to have us as viewers. If not, then fair enough.
@@krabling I’m English. We make fun of everyone, including ourselves! It’s just banter
I am American and I was not offended by this at all
@@StanTheWoz I thought my comment made it clear that I didn't have a problem with Jamie or the joke itself at face value. My issue was how jokes from CCs like these predictably lead to behavior from Twitch or UA-cam chat. I have no doubt that Jamie wasn't trying to be malicious. But people in chat who hate their political opponents tend to see it as a green light to go off on the views/people they dislike, and unless they say something really extreme, they're virtually never held in check.
@@krabling You literally brought up an issue I would have never thought of. Is this an Instagram reels thing or are you chronically online.
@AlwaysThirstys I don't even know what Instagram reels is. Your move.
so basically the metric for "best character" is akin to baseball's WAR en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wins_Above_Replacement