Bullets: Near, Far, Good & Bad
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- Опубліковано 24 лис 2023
- Randy’s focus is on the best bullets for taking game animals, the pros and cons of different bullet construction for nearer shots, and at longer distance, but with the condition that the extreme long range is not hunting but sniping.Berger bullets and any target bullets are not the ideal hunting bullets. While Randy mentions several videos or shows that have shown poor results shooting multiple times at game animals we WILL NOT share the links to those videos to only give them more views.He mentions a very ethical outfitter that used to live near us and outfitted in this area. Both of our sons actually guided hunts for him and his wife. Griz and Ginger Turner are owners and outfitters of Raven’s Throat Outfitters of NW Territories. A big shout out to them for their ethical hunting practice of getting their hunters within 250 yards. Their hunting concession is over 6,000 square miles and their hunters have tremendous success. Check them out. www.ravensthroat.com/
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From my wifes phone., There was recently a high speed vedio on the movement of the barrel tip upon firing of the cartridge. There is clear movement of the barrel Before the bullet leaves the barrel.this was done in a solid test rig. This 80 year is a firm beleiver that only 15 to 20 percent of the modern day hunter has any ethics. I have had to put down many of animals that have been wounded by unethical hunters. At 80 my killing days are over. It's a sad looking future.
@janevanzant…I totally agree…I’m 71 and I totally agree…many/most modern hunters are fed bull crap from UA-cam videos about 1000+ yard shots being “normal” and must be accepted as such or you are not “Up to speed”…I was taught to hunt by my grandfather in middle Georgia (who used an iron sight Marlin in .35 Remington using Remington 200 grain Core Lok and was always successful) and to always pass on questionable shots, even on a deer with a “good rack”…his teaching stuck with me throughout my future years of hunting…we are seeing the modern generation fall for this UA-cam propaganda with game animals suffering as a result (I’ve dropped many channels due to this bull 💩…so be warned on your content)…Randy’s channel is a breath of fresh air in this day and time 👍🙏👍🙏👍🙏
I would have to agree with your stats. It’s a sad story for sure. Most of the younger generation just don’t realize how precious our hunting resources are.
Absolutely 100% correct. I am a 1000yd benchrest shooter in both light gun class and Unlimited gun class and know for a fact a barrel whips. Its exactly why I run barrel tuners to tune in that harmonic whip even better after tuning the harmonics with load development which is what a load is when you make an accurate load. Your tuning harmonics. Bullet jump, charge weight all affects harmonics and when you hit the sweet spot (especially with seating depth) then you have that barrel whipping in a consistent manner
As a 62 year old from the uk who's been hunting since i was 13 I'm glad that the long range "hunting" I see on the internet isnt viable over here and thank heavens we still have to stalk game to close the distance.
Yet again common sense and a reality check from Randy. Long may you continue. 👍
I only target shoot but hunters I've spoken to in the UK do seem to have a strong emphasis on ethics. If I was hunting I'd want to be very sure of getting a clean shot. Closer is better.
Too many are more interested in getting subscribers to their UA-cam channel than telling the truth about long range hunting. Thank you!
Randy, I believe you touched a nerve with some of these fellas. I really like these bullet videos. Thank you for the time you’re taking out of your day to educate those that want to learn.
I always use nosler partition or bonded bullets
I’m 63 and live in the Northeast. Hunting season brings out the worse of so called hunters . My dad taught us boys back in the day of all aspects of respect for the animal we hunt. Long shots are only 25% of areas we hunt. Hunt the animals turf, still hunt and stalk using and knowing the mountainous terrain where the game travel. But hunting has changed. Our area has changed. The newcomers with money come, build a house, bait and kill from their deck in the back yard. Deer don’t run the mountains and holding areas on certain ridges anymore. To be successful a hunter has to hunt low around houses where the game like sweet corn better than normal winter browse. It’s disgusting that D.E.C. and the State allows bait to be sold in all kinds of stores. It will never change. Just as our Country is being destroyed.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and keep your videos coming please.
Agree 💯.I'd much rather brag about how close I got to my game ! And I like good stout bullets, mostly Barnes X Bullets.Excellent accuracy and performance on game with minimal meat damage.
Thank you sir for the wisdom and content.
Sir, thank you for sharing this video.
I've read great things about the BC and accuracy of Berger bullets. According to Berger they make a line of bullets designed specially for hunting and another line designed for target work. Since I've never used Berger bullets, I have no opinion and defer to those with such experience. My primary area of interest is the military and defensive applications of firearms and ammunition where any hit is preferred over a miss. This is quite the opposite of ethical hunting practices. For example, from my house I can see elk herds over a mile away, but I have no desire to shoot one at such a ridiculous distance. Even if I hit him (a miracle in itself), where would the projectile strike, how deep would it penetrate, and what damage would it do? Yet I have seen videos of "hunters" making extreme range kills. What is never shown are the injured animals that needlessly suffer a long, slow death because of this practice. How do such people live with themselves?
Burgers are a deadly drop dead killer. I will say maybe if not placed right they could be issues. I’ve seen them kill deer from using.243 to 300 wm and it was simply lights out for all. Yards from 90y to 300y.
The Berger J4 jacket has no business being used on animals!
Good video! Thanks.
Nailed it again Randy! I’m so fed up with the long range hype as well. Ego driven punks that only want bragging rights on social media… Gun and bullet manufactures doing nothing but catering to this crowd. Please keep em coming. God Bless
Truer words have never been spoken.
It's always gratifying to listen to someone speak the truth and just tell it like it is ...too rare nowadays.
Very GOOD!
Randy, spot on. A true hunter is an ethical hunter. I was raised to respect animals , take a shot that will lessen the trauma to the animal. I’ve hunted for over 50 years and my experience tells me this. I’m the guy that hand loads using partitions or accubonds, my shots are usually within 250 yards.
I agree that some of these bullets are not hunting bullets and 700 + yard shots is absurd. Thanks for saying it
" They get better at long range" hahahaha, that's a good one, the only reason is the damned things won't expand quite as violently as velocity drops off, absolute nonsense, inexperience exactly, anybody with the slightest knowledge knows, you do not use a damn varmint bullet on tough game animals! Excellent as always Mr S .
Thanks for the video Randy very informative. I’ve yet to watch a video from you and not learn something. Thanks again always enjoy your videos.keep up the good work God bless
Watch randy for years. He is so correct.
Thank you my knowledgeable friend for your timely and thoughtful content 🫶🏻🫶🏻👍👍🫶🏻🫶🏻👍👍
Mr. Randy - thank you for sharing all your knowledge with us!! Amen to the ethics. I love hearing some common sense in the hunting community.
I believe you. I believe you are experienced. I would like you to go through and give your opinion of the hunting bullets offered by Federal, Winchester, Hornady, Remington, Barnes, Nosler and Berger. No need to spend a bunch of time telling us how long you have been testing ammo. We know that you know. Thank You for the informative videos.
You are so correct. I hope this vdo helps
Im starting to like the ttsx bullet im using them in my 3006, 2506 and 22250 and they do an amazing job im in southtexas and dont shoot over 400 yards
I think Bergerac are used for what there made . White tails it’s a slam dunk and yes I use ABLR an partition but there is a game bullet for every animal and don’t think your sniper because you can hit a 2x2 ft board at 500 yards . Love your stories
No they are poor all the way around. Don't matter if it's whitetails or moose they are fragmented pieces of crap. Please please try FEDERAL TERMINAL ACCENT in whatever cal you shoot. Now that's a game bullet.!!!! They actually performed at close range and 300 yards. Farthest I'll shoot at game is 300. Work awsome for me. Golf balls size exit every time
Thank you Mr. Selby…your channel is a Godsend 🙏🙏🙏
Thank you Mr Selby. Id love a video on 7mm rem mag handloads. Im shooting federal terminal assent but would like to go to handload accubonds or ttsx in the 165-175 range and still get velocity over 3000. I have a custom built ruger m77 with a hart 1 in 9 barrel. I shoot current setup half mile plus at targets but i believe 400 yards max range on an animal with perfect condition in a hunting situation. Planning my first elk hunt next year and would like to have energy up to possibly stretch to 500 yards
I've been hunting for over 60 years. I find it frustrating that Leupold seems to make so few of what I call hunting scopes any more. My favorite Leupold hunting scope was the Vari-X 3 2.5-8x36mm variable. Nowadays they only make ONE version of that scope with one reticle choice, while they make dozens of different models of very high power variable scopes that I consider only suitable for targets, varmint shooting or mounting in an observatory to look at the stars. They have discontinued the fixed power 4x centerfire scope, and the fixed power 6x centerfire scope with the same size objective lens as the old 4x (they do make the FX-6 with the 42mm objective that was designed for use in some type of competition shooting). I've never had trouble shooting big game with a fixed 4x or a variable power scope with a maximum power of 9x (like a 3-9 variable). I mostly use the old 2.5-8x or the 2-7x variable scopes, and I've always sighted in at 200 yards and I know my drops out to 350 yards. I consider 350 yards a damn long shot and I always try to hunt closer. The high power variables that are popular today are all designed to be used in conjunction with a range finder and have elevation knobs on the scope that can be dialed out to absurd ranges. I have a range finder, but I use it to find out if I need to get closer. If a person wants to shoot at long range, they should be shooting at targets or varmints, not game animals. I'm not impressed by someone who can hit an elk at 900 yards; I'm far more impressed by someone who can hunt close enough to an elk to slap him in the ass (I had a friend who did that, however he passed away over ten years ago).
I get my western tablefare with a 250gr Nosler Partition out of a 340 Weatherby. Other bullets I like for all types of game are the good old Remington Cor-Lokt, the Speer Grand Slam and the Nosler Accubond.
The most disappointing aspect of hunting ethics, irrespective (FYI - "irregardless" is not a word Randy) of the bullets is the lack of marksmanship. I've seen people out hunting who shoot their gun once a year to make sure it's sighted in, and then go on to rip off rounds at running game, or game at yardage that they can't even estimate. They don't even know the ballistic properties of their cartridge.
How many even note the displacement and size of their shot group after the first round is fired from a cold barrel?
Where I live most so called hunters can’t make a clean kill at 50 yards and swear their 300 short mag drops 2 inches at 400 yards. I get the whole it unethical to shoot at game at 1000 yards rant but theres a much larger group that can’t ethically harvest game within 200 yards.
Actually it is a word. When you can find instances of it being used in newspapers going back more than 200 years then that pretty much qualifies as common usage. While the context of it's usage may break common grammatical rules it is still a word and we all know the meaning when it is used.
ir·re·gard·less
[ˌirəˈɡärdləs]
ADVERB
non-standard
1. regardless:
"the photographer always says, irregardless of how his subjects are feeling, “Smile!”" ·
[more]
synonyms:
anyway · anyhow · in any case · nevertheless · nonetheless · notwithstanding · despite everything · in spite of everything · for all that · after everything · no matter what · even so · just the same · all the same · be that as it may · in any event · come what may · (come) rain or shine · whatever the cost
@@TheRealGunsmith Ain't it the truth. 😄
I use Nosler Accubonds and if I’m in the woods I use ballistic tips.
Every person around here that buys a 6.5 Creedmore thinks they can shoot a deer at 1000 yards.
From my experience that's every creedmore owner,seems to be a cult thing
Hey Randy sir and to your lovely wife to
I like Nosler Partitions for game bullets. #00 is my max range. 500 on elk , if I ever get a chance to hunt Elk. A lot bigger target.
I think the Barnes in 25 caliber, pushed a 3300 fps, would do very well on medium game, if you can get them to shoot accurately.
Christ Bless!
Addressing the ethical considerations of long range hunting in not so sure all the blame rests on the shoulders of the bullet manufactures. Part and a good sized part rests on the optics and ballistics computer companies. The technology is allowing people to make longer and longer shots. Combine this with weak or just plain wrong bullets and it’s a bad recipe.
Agree 100%
I've settled on federal terminal accent for all my big game hunting. Best game projectile I've used. Near or far they performed awsome!. Great show randy 👏 love your knowledge drops!!!!!
At this time, it's easier to buy a unicorn than Federal TAs.
@thebleeb1681 huh? I just bought sum last week. Had a shelf full of it. That and fusion out the yinyang
@thebleeb1681 and I'm in NY so if it's here it's eveyware
@thebleeb1681 figures I found an bullet I absolutely love and now it will disappear. Hope not
Same waiting on the 170 grain terminal ascent in 7prc what I'm shooting they are great bullets Hornady ammo is garbage
I seen a post earlier of a guy who is loading Hornady ELD MATCH in a 6.5 those are target bullets if I’m right
I agree 100%! I am 50 years old and in the last 10 years I heard more nonsense on the internet than ever before as it relates to hunting and hunting bullets. I blame Hornady because they are the ones that really made everything about BC at the cost of terminal performance on and inside of the game animals. Berger is bad too but Berger does not have the reach and mass marketing that Hornady does. Hornady is terrible because they have pushed long range hunting and bullet bc over everything else! Berger is bad too but they are a small fish in the hunting world.
We want you to do a gun video on ammo or what not outdoors when it’s about 20 below. 😁
To bad none of the other bullet companies can’t make a bullet as consistent and shoot as well as a Berger. I haven’t found one in my testing
Well said. Very well said.
Randy, Could you talk about some of the public hunting areas where hunters you have built rifles for go hunting that don’t require shooting at long range and by that I mean more than 400 yards. Is game so scarce in Wyoming or Montana that long range shots are required? I live in a state that only allows shotgun hunting now but 30 years ago took trips to your area to hunt elk and sheep. I would like to try hunting wolves in Idaho. Could you talk about acquiring permits for big game and the changes you have seen over the last 10-20 years?
#1, I don't discuss where my clients hunt unless they would specifically give me permission. Over the years I've had I have clients from 49 states, [none in Hawaii], under many different conditions and distances. There are a number of them that hunt Africa, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and even Europe. So there is a broad, broad range of conditions, etc.
It is not the scarcity of game that "requires" such long shots, but egos that need stoked.
Thanks for watching.
Here’s another question you could talk about. I hear all this talk about a 40 degree shoulder angle being ideal for complete combustion in these new “ super efficient” PRC cartridges. If sharper is better, Would’nt that prove that Roy Weatherby’s claim that his double Venturi shoulder helped for more complete combustion of powder in the chamber before bullet exits the barrel has merit?
Randy, I agree with the basic thrust of your argument, particularly in regard to the ethics of shooting animals at long distance. My personal belief is that we shouldn’t be shooting any further than the PBR of the cartridge/rifle being used. However you didn’t frame your argument very well for someone of your “experience” that you mentioned a lot. It took you a long time to say anything about bullet construction and surely those 115gn Berger Bullets you used in your 25/06 to hunt pronghorns with would have been shot at a paper target prior to your hunt. If those bullets were vaporising before reaching the target it should have occurred then. Also 3400fps for a
115gn projectile out of a 25/06 sounds extremely optimistic.
Just my thoughts.
Regards
Geoff Pigram
A game projectile should not
Pass through a game animal without expansion no matter what distance. Had one manufacturer try to say velocity was magnum compressed load at short range.
God bless and keep passing on the knowledge
Ive since been reloading my own rounds with the proper powder so i limit the report of unburnt powder from the barrel by selecting the correct style powder for the burn rate i need aswell as maximizing velocity with lower total chamber pressure.
Keep the knowledge rolling randy. If we dont share what we’ve learned its lessons lost and a legacy never recognized.
Very well said.
Randy, Could you do a segment on how you make a new chamber reamer for a new wildcat cartridge from the design drawing thru the actual machining and tempering process? Did you make the one for your 7mm x 404 Wapiti or have someone else do it?
I appreciate the suggestion but probably won't. It would apply to a very small segment of the viewers and only a smaller segment with the skills. Yes, I made the 7x707 Wapiti Express reamers and many others.
Thanks for watching and Happy New Year!
Understood, I was always curious how they are made though.
Hi very well said thanks for telling it like it is
The mighty dollar...
You cant tell anybody anything these days they already know more than u do
Well with all these new chambering what do you expect. It’s more the manufactures fault than the hunter
Randy, what’s your opinion on the Federal Terminal Ascent bullets?
They are very good bullets.
Thanks for watching.
Thank you sir.
I agree with all of your observations with one addendum. The unethical behavior exhibited in the field does not stop there. These people are bad actors and lack moral turpitude in general. They won’t learn because they don’t care. They stop when the rest of us are only left with our eyes to cry with so don’t enable them and in any way.
Idk about for elk but on deer n hogs Bergers have did a fine job for me in multiple cartridges 25wssm 115vld 6.5prc 156eol 7wsm 168vld 300wsm 185vld and HYBRID also probably be smart to keep muzzle velocity no higher than 3000fps from 50 to 200 yds everything has died fast or in they tracks
Sir your exactly right I agree with you every word
Its really disappointing to see the bullet manufacturers catering to the long range B.S. Nosler stopped producing the partition.
I'm wondering about your opinion on these hard cast bullets in handguns for bears. is it marketing?.im still a firm believer on the JSP
Hard cast is the only way to go for bears, not JSP! A bullet must penetrate a long ways in a bear, not expand, for a handgun.
Thanks for watching.
@TheRealGunsmith thank you for your reply. It means alot. Happy holidays to you and your family god bless.
We get it. You hate your neighbors at Gunwerks. Why not do a comparison of their rifles vs. yours? I’d like to see the difference in accuracy compared to yours, or maybe the results of a hunting trip with both rifles.
I’d love to see a sit down conversation with Randy Selby and Aaron Davidson. Both would have a lot to offer to the conversation.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
@@TheRealGunsmith I guess I missed the joke. The only one allowed to be disrespectful in your comment section is you?
Fellow hunter shot a elk at 200 yards from a 7 mag at the shoulder. Didnt penetrate for squat no blood or anything..
That's an ignorant shot placement on an elk, it takes a lot of bullet to be consistent through an elks shoulder.
I just last week shot a whitetail with a 308 win. Hand load was a 150gn game king at 2550 fps. I thought that this would be a very acceptable bullet to use being that my farthest available shot is 150 yards. Here in the Wisconsin woods. I took a shot on approximately 120 lbs doe. At a range of 25 FEET. The shot was a quartering shot and hit perfectly in the front left shoulder. The bullet only went in approximately 2 inches. Broke 3 ribs and I recovered the bullet just behind the front left shoulder just under the skin. The bullet weight was 139gn. With the angle of the shot the bullet should have exited behind the right shoulder. I can not understand why this happened. The impact hole was 5 inches across. I could understand if the bullet would have disintegrated but it did not. The only positive is that the deer only ran 20 yards and died quickly. Unbelievably disappointed. Can you help me with some kind of explanation as to what happened.
As I understand it hunting bullets have a velocity range that they perform best at. It may be that as the deer was so close the velocity was too high for optimum expansion and it expanded too quickly? Rapid expansion and a much larger frontal area would reduce penetration I would expect. It seems to be a question of knowing the limits of your bullet/cartridge combination and only using under those conditions.
Game kings are another example of a target bullet in a hunting bullet box
There was a time not so long ago in this great nation of ours when a morally sound America still produced real men & women who understood they were created in Gods image & did thier best to reflect His character. The Real Gunsmith is an excellnt example of what a man is supposed to look & act like. Unfortunately real men are a dying breed so it's always a privalage to be able too listen & learn from someone who speaks truth from personal experience. You can't put a price on real world wisdom & knowledge. The good book says that Godly wisdom is much more valuable than having a large treasure of pure gold & presious gems. To all those that share freely with the rest of us....I salute you...sincere thanks.
What's your opinion on Norma ammunition?
Quality. However, I don't use factory ammo, as I am a consumate handloader, to load for top accuracy, velocity at optimum levels.
Thanks for watching.
Check out mark and Sam after work on UA-cam they shoot off bipods at 1000s of yards not A 1000 but 3000 4000 yards and do so very very accurately and do all their shooting off bipods. I’m not saying that makes it ok to shoot at game like that but you can shoot just as well from a bipod as you can a hunting bench rest setup.
The issue with long range is wind and time to target. It doesn't matter if you shoot steel or paper but a 12 inch drift can take you from a clean kill to a gut shot. Given the bullet movement I've seen in gusts I wouldn't want to go much over 300yds to be 100% sure I could guarantee a clean kill.
Not everyone is as skilled as Mark is or have his background. I get what your saying but each of us are very different when it comes to that kind of skill.
If you watch all of Marks videos you will notice that he emphasizes that ELR/ULR shooting is about TARGET shooting. He even did a segment on the unethical practice of long range hunting. In that segment he addressed bullet energy and velocity. If you notice and Mark talked about how the target he used at ELR ranges some were as thin as 1/8 inch metal. Due to the sheer lack of energy that was left. Marks limitations on hunting was set at 500yds and less due to time of flight, energy and wind.
You mean the deer just stood there while you shot at him seven times? Wow!
Well said sir well said
i have used barns bullets since 1994 338 and 243
Question.. im just getting into tge Barnes TTSX bullets. In the 6mm what's your speed and distance. I really appreciate any and all information you would share with me. I want to load my father inlaws 257 Roberts with a 100gr ttsx but I just haven't seen enough performance on northern Michigan whitetails to be 100% certain they will perform. Thanks in advance if you see this.
Its curious that only your experience matters. Anyone else's experience should be ignored... according to you.
Is it possible that there are different ways to get the job done?
I shot multiple bullets and have killed elk with the 215 berger... all 1 shot.
He’s not saying that they won’t work. He’s saying that the structural integrity of them is crap and failures are much more common than in a well made bullet like a Nosler partition or Accubond. Get as close as you can and be prepared to pass up a shot if necessary.
@@fit4outside Exactly, This year I passed up a shot at about 75 yards at a huge whitetail buck because he turned and was running away from me. I wasn't about to make a shot at a running deer and from the rear at a "possible" neck shot. He lives to see another day.
I have a few cartridge rig combinations that will vaporize traditional cup and core bullets and I know that at an initial 100 yard test for groups. It puzzles me as to why / how one would get into that situation at a given 300 yards at game not knowing the projectile compatibility. 3300-3400 is quite optimistic for a 25-06 also. What r you shooting there, a 26-28-30” barrel?
I don't remember Randy saying he was shooting a .25-06.
@@TODinWY yea he definitely said he shot a 25-06 at IIRC 3300 fps with a 115grn projectile. Not saying it ain’t possible but would have to be very slow burn 🔥 powder with an approximate 28-30” barrel almost.
I remember him saying it and Pepperidge Farms remembers too! I LOVE a 25.06 and my 25.06AI an I have never seen that speed out of any of them with a bullet over 100gr.
@@adamrodgers2377 definitely do it with a lighter 85-87 grn projectile, maybe some 90 -95grn are out there I’m not familiar with
25-06AI with 29" barrel, 110gr Nosler Accubonds and H1000 powder is what he stated in another video. I get 3400fps with a 28" standard 25-06 chamber running near max H1000 under 100gr Barnes TSX. It's a great deer load!
another GREAT vid. by someone who has MUCH of something that is greatly lacking in this world, COMMON SENSE backed up by proven experience and by asking THE QUESTION, should we be doing this, is this right. for most people its about my self, the I GOD. most of these people should not be hunting, because this is not about hunting, but about killing and satisfying the I GOD.
it comes from a godless world
Thank you. Spot on.
Thanks for watching.
your vids always make for a better day. maybe some day things will be better, when jesus returns and does away with this crazyness. thank you and your wife, paul@@TheRealGunsmith
A clean kill at 1000 yards is the rare & lucky exception.
It is not repeatable, sustainable & it most certainly isn’t ethical.
Close in, for a better shot, don’t chance wounding a majestic animal, to wonder off & become coyote food.
Quality high performance hunting bullets are key.
Bullets that get better at further distance ??
What the hell does that mean ?
If you are a hair off at 100y
You are going to be long LONG off at 1000y
Bullets do not somehow magically group back together at distance.
These folks better study up on the simple science of trajectory.
Good Grief.
Nosler partitions are my go to bullet. Why? Because they work. Others that I use are Nosler Accubond and Speer Grand Slams.
@@garyh1449 all outstanding bullet choices.
Im 55 yrs old..and i remember back when a grizzly would hear a rifle shot and head to the next county ..most of the time.or am i wrong? But now they dont have any fear ..its not instinctual..like jack said in the movie Jeremiah Johnson..aint no griz anyway..and they want to introduce them back near a populated area.. your story about the 18 inch kill shot on the second grizz..and the very next day with the game warden showing up at the kill site ..7 grizzlies the very next day..that alone should tell somebody something??? And the warden turning his ass around was the only Smart thing he did that day..lol
No, you aren't wrong. When the griz was hunted they feared man and seldom got into trouble.
Yellowstone National Park, killing them by the hundreds [read Playing God in Yellowstone"] is what brought them to such low numbers that they were listed.
I rode on a plane with the WY G & F director in 1978 and he, directors of ID and MT were already trying to get the unlisted as in just those few short years they were seeing and experiencing the griz loosing fear of man and becoming dangerous. As well as the fact that they numbers outside of the Park weren't as low as reported to get them listed.
It's a mess.
Thanks for watching.
I’ve added Swift Scirocco’s to the “not for me list”. I had a bad experience with those this year. It was a 90 yard chip shot with a 300 wsm that simply failed to perform on a 150lb whitetail. The bullet passed through without doing squat. I had a perfect rest from my blind and watched the impact on a low shoulder broadside shot. I really need to get back to reloading to make decent cartridges.
Some bullets are made a bit tough, and need muscle to expand. Back in the day shot a big buck with Speer Grand Slams on the move, didn't compensate enough and my first 2 shots went 1" appart behind the last rib. Deer picked up pace a bit but didn't seem hit. Aimed a ft. ahead(shotgunnig skills kicked in) and got him right. 1 st 2 bullets didn't expand at all, The 3rd hit the shoulder and brought it down. Didn't recover it either. But Still use them, the only one that shoots 1 " in my old 1917 Enfield. Changed aiming point. No boiler room shots
The swift sciricco is designed for heavy tough game like moose,Buffalo and African game is what I've been told. After doing some research I found they are very accurate but don't expand like a good nosler or hornady hunting bullet. Hope that helps..but look it up and see if I might be misinformed. good luck
Your understanding describes my experience fairly well. My hope was that the shoulder bones would trigger expansion enough to break the shoulders. It didn’t turn out that way that I was hoping. It is a shame because the Remington Swift Scirocco’s shoot clover leafs out of a very ammo picky rifle.
My question is, why are these rebranded match bullets even legal to hunt with? They have their place on the range that's it.
Seems game departments don't care or don't pay attention. It is possible, I believe, for them to outlaw them, as each state has different calibers, etc, that they have on the "no go" list.
Thanks for watching.
I dont think any of these rifle companies are claiming to just go shoot animals at 1000yd out of the box. I am pretty sure they mean its able to get on paper at 1000yd. Which is possible by someone like me who puts hundreds of bullets on the paper in 600yd and 1000yd benchrest every year from April to October but your standard casual I highly doubt.
It’s strange that those Berger bullets didn’t vaporize when you were sighting them in at 3400 fps but yet they did vaporize when you were hunting w them. 3400 fps is really fast. You had a 36” barrel or your pressures were way out of Sami specs. Also saying that you can’t shoot well off a bipod is actually a little bizarre. That statement can be proven to be incorrect very easily. I’m just seeing ranting and raving. State and show facts.
I find it odd that such an expert that can just look at a bullet would look at the Berger J4 jacket and understand running them hard enough to stress the jacket is simply an operator issue!!
Here’s an up date. I loaded for my sons 7 rem mag with H4832sc and 175 Berger eol hunters going 3000 fps. Shot 2 whitetail in Texas. Those bullets were devastating. Both high shoulder shots. 465 and 350 yards. Did massive damage and then went through. One took out the heart on a high shoulder shot. That wound cavity was huge. Crazy good. Don’t believe the nay sayers. Try them yourself. Berger’s are the jam. Huge wound cavities.
It takes practice to shoot long range. Few shooters can find a range or place to shoot beyond 200 Yds. 75% or more game is taken under 150 Yds. Most at under 100 Yds,If that is were you hunt, booking a hunt for where you will be taking 300-500 Yds shots, not a good idea.You can't walk the shots at game at long range. If you take it seriously and find where to practice/long range shooting school, Snipper school, them you get what it takes. Kentucky windage doesn't work way out yonder. By just sighting in your rifle for maximum point blank range, and not 100 Yds might get your game further out, and offhand shooting not accurate for longer ranges. Practice using whatever steady rest you can think of
What I hear you say is Gospel to me sir. GOD BLESS y’all Amen 🙏
I’ve been saying this for years . The only elk I’ve had to track has been with Berger or eldx bullets . It shouldn’t be legal to shoot at game with these garbage “hunting “bullets . it’s a shame the likes of Hornady is pushing this long range crap. Gunwerks is horrible too. I know a guy that was shooting a 300rum loaded with gunwerks ammo and a Berger vld bullet . I told him that was a bad idea especially at close range with rum velocities . He didn’t listen and shot an elk . I came out to help track that elk , when we finally caught up to it I finished the job with my 325wsm loaded with barns tsx . Upon inspection he had hit a shoulder and that bullet blew to pieces . It didn’t even make it past the shoulder bone . Where was the magic “ energy dump “ that these morons claim ? Shouldn’t that animal have just magically dropped ? According to Berger it should have ! It’s disgusting what is going on !
Hey now, none of that
Show us actual video of you testing with the results please. Otherwise guys are gonna think this is just a bunch of hot air. Show us the proof!
I love how you tell it like it really is, the hunting industry is all about the $ and instant gratification because they want to take shortcuts to success and don't want to pay their dues. It's like you said it's sniping not hunting. Thank's for this video.
I'm making sausage and jerky tonight after a successful whitetail hunt on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation. My guide advised me to put away the .243 for the PM hunt as a distant shot may be in order. Turns out a shot was in order, but it wasn't distant. I was very glad for the Indian's advice as my 6 by 6 was running flat out, uphill at 90 yards when the 130 grain Nosler Partition went in behind the rearmost rib and bored it's way to the lungs. The deer disappeared over the top. My guide said, "great shot". I said, " you know it's a gut shot, right?" He said, "Ya, I heard it. That's why we always use enough gun and the right bullet. We will find him." Two hours later, we found him laying head uphill, 20 feet from a spring-fed stream, on a 65 degree day. I love it when a plan comes together. And, I love my old Model 70, with Nosler Partition bullets. If god ever made a better deer rifle, I haven't found it.
Here’s my concern!! If the eldx and Berger bullets are so terrible why are they the two most popular bullets on the market? People are not going to continue to use something over and over that doesn’t work! I have used both of these bullets and continue to use them and I have never had a single problem from either! I don’t elk hunt I hunt whitetails and both those bullets plant deer in their tracks are they as toughly built as a partition no but that don’t make them a bad bullet! I understand Randy is an older man set in his ways and beliefs but I also believe a lot of this information pertaining to Berger and Hornady bullets is maybe stretched quite a bit to prove a point or belief! Hundreds of thousands of hunters can’t all be wrong about their bullet selection when it comes to these two bullets to this day I have only ever herd one person say they felt the Berger bullets were inadequate and that’s on this channel!! I have much respect for the info you’re sharing with all of us but stubborn isn’t always the way forward!!
I am stubborn when I know I am right. They may kill game but they aren't hunting bullets. Proper tool should always be used .
Thanks for watching.
@@TheRealGunsmith I’m not saying either of us are wrong or right I think it comes down to how someone wants to kill their game their hunting!! Do you want to kill it with two holes or one because they both kill. I know all there deer I have shot with those bullets you open them up and pour the deers heart and lungs out. I never saw that with partitions interlocks or accubonds nor did I ever have as many drop where they stood using the traditional bullets. I think if your going to hunt elk you better have a tough bullet but whitetails number one big game animal in America for license sold and there not very tough so if they work why does it matter use what you prefer! I know if one ever fails on me I’d never use them again but that hasn’t happened!
I could care less about BC,, personally I care about bullet performance, and energy.
Saying that shooting off a bipod is not stable is not true at all. Also, Berger bullets kill a pile of animals every year shot placement is king.
Berger bullets are not game/hunting bullets, that is like you taking a Sierra Match King (same style bullet) and saying it is a game/hunting bullet. Shot placement has nothing to do with shots being taken at such distances that the animal can move during time of flight, and turn your kill shot into a grazing wound, and off it goes never to be seen again and the criminals being so far away, can not take finishing shots. So it is a lose/lose The hunter does not get the game animal and the animal suffers and dies slowly.
As for the bipod, I have used them, but I shoot no further than 300 yards, but a pack or rock or side of a tree is much more stable... I believe he is referring to the criminals taking 800/1000/1200 yard shots at game. The reference to the beaten zone of seven (7) shots that completely went around the animal, means the distance is such that the rifle it self struggles, and not the shooter per/se, or perhaps both. Land owners down in Texas see all that b.s. on your gun, (unless shooting pigs at night) and they will run you off the land. It used to be a brag to sneak up on a pronghorn within 20 yards and shoot it, those men are long gone. Bow hunting is getting just as bad, this is hunting not sniping.
Shot placement is only 50 percent of the battle. If you hit said animal in the right spot using said projectiles, and the projectile fails, shot placement is meaningless if your projectile isn't up for the task. I agree that shot placement is extremely important. there is no argument there. If you are running a match style bullet, it's a crap shoot that said bullet will perform as advertised. Personally, I don't run bullets unless I'm 1000 percent sure they are going to perform each time.
Not saying I shoot the Berger bullets on big game but some guys I hunt with use Berger bullets. I will say they drop deer in their tracks most deadly drop dead killing bullets I’ve witnessed. Don’t be knocking this bullet but do research and select the ones made for your hunt.
What’re ideal projectiles for the battlefield where the targets are enemy combatants? No I’m not being sarcastic…
I'll leave that up to the military experts. Not my line of interest.
Thanks for watching.
This was also years ago you say. Berger is a lot bigger of a company now days than they were years ago. That being said the bullets coming apart in flight I am not saying is impossible but was highly unlikely as since their conception have been punching holes in paper at 1000yd benchrest matches and prone F-Class matches. Now any bullet that is a traditional copper jacket pulled over a lead core without a bonding process can have void areas between the jacket and lead core causing jacket seperation upon impact. Ive seen it with Sierra Gamekings even (one of my favorite and at one time one of the better hunting bullets available before monolithics and bonded bullets came in the picture)
If you don’t like Berger bullets, why are you using them? That’s your fault for not using research on the bullet you chose.
Why are you telling at what distance a hunter would shoot an animal with? Yet you don’t blame yourself on the antelope you shot with a bullet you hadn’t tested. If so, you would’ve never used that bullet.
People don’t listen anymore sir they know it all. I jumped on a friend of mine he was talking to someone about reloading and told them to use pistol powder in their rifle loads.
The great traditional bowhunter “Barry Wenzel” always said that bow hunting is a game of how CLOSE not how FAR. Well, the same holds true with rifles. Just because your weapon has the ABILITY to kill a game animal at 1000 yards, it still doesn’t justify most people in taking such shots!! There is nothing cool whatsoever about taking a shot at a live breathing animal that you KNOW DEEP DOWN, is beyond your ability!! That’s not good hunting… Its nothing more than foolish egotistical PRIDE.
You can make the same video on any bullet made. Shot placement is what kills. Theres no magic bullet for a poor placed shot.
Oh really shot placement with a wrong type bullet is simply bad. You must be new
@@Peter-od7op new isn’t really a measure of time. Just like big or small isn’t a measurement of size. I am 52 and have 31 bucks in my shop and house with numerous elk and antelope scattered in. 40 years of hunting. Good shot placement at a reasonable distance with the proper grain bullet of any manufacturer will make a humane kill.
@@brianmelton5723 proper grain bullet If it is not designed for a big game like burgers, it will explode you should notice
The best shot placement is useless with junk bullets!!!
@@janbastein7355 ty why is this hard for todays hunters to understand
Hornady is frangible junk with the excemption of the CX and GMX .
So is the Nosler Partition bullet frangible but the video Host/speaker uses and recommends them frequently. I cannot understand why R.S. gives free advertising for a frangible bullet. I like much of his hunting and shooting advice, but not the Nosler stuff. Seems to me that the "Hawk" bullets and "Barnes X-bullets" are far better.
@@gusloader123The Nosler Partition is not considered a frangible bullet. Either Randy misspoke or somebody misunderstood. He’s often said a 168grn Nosler Partition in the 7mm Rem Mag is his go to.
@@chrisgunsandguitars1403 Hello. I think that you misunderstood my comment. I just re-read it and I thought I spoke clearly enough, but maybe not.
I said that the "Nosler Partition" bullet IS a frangible bullet. That is because they break apart. I prefer a bullet that mushrooms/expands and stays together after hitting a game animal. Wounding game animals is not a good thing to do.
R.S. often gives free advertising to the Nosler company, especially the "Partition" model. He never mentions "Hawk" brand hunting bullets. Rarely does R.S. mention "Trophy Bonded Bear Claw" bullets.
R.S. is talking/yelling about the Berger bullets and the silly shooters that confuse military sniper shooting skills against a human enemy target half a mile to a mile away shots, with ethical hunting of game animals. He is correct about those problems. BUT then he custom assembles in his workshop magnum rifles with big telescopes on top (but no metallic sights),,,, which encourages the shooter to take shots that should never be taken.
I am probably in the minority on this, but my motto has been for decades now: "Outta sight (with your eyeballs) - outta range." Get close to (or call) the game animal. Scopes are fine IF you are a military or L.E.O sniper.
Daniel Boone and his fellows fed their families with long-barreled rifles with metallic sights, shooting round lead balls. Did all the game animals nowadays start taking steroids and now wear body armor?
I agree that many hunters have zero ethics and are too lazy to hunt/stalk/call game animals. Too many rely on a big telescope and on a magnum cartridge.
It is his Y.T. channel and he can do what he wants, but I find it weird to be critical of the Berger bullet but not of the break apart N.P. bullet. Berger bullets were originally designed as paper target bullets for the long distance target shooters that shoot at paper, NOT game animals.
Example: two sharp objects both made for cutting: One is a surgical scalpel used in a hospital. The other is a "Butcher knife". Both are meant to cut things ,,,, but they are used very differently.
For some unknown reason (( maybe the person had no other bullets and no sane/experienced hunter warned them not to,,,,)) but somebody loaded some Berger bullets into some brass cases and went hunting. Somehow the game animal was killed. {I can only surmise it was a head/brain shot.} They came back to town and told other folks via the internet, and ... VIOLA! A paper target bullet suddenly, presto-change-o becomes a hunting bullet.
Tell that to the many deer and elk that ended up in my freezer from the Hornady SST!
@@tonym3157I’ve had some in my freezer from the sst also it put the whitetail down very fast but I’ve never had so many lead fragments in my meat before so I never used them again.
Sorry brotha I almost always agree with you on modern shooting ethics on our big game but you’re blast against the Berger line of hunting bullets is just false! I’m sorry but the experiences of friends and family this yr alone proves this part of the rant false in our experience! However I do love and respect the majority of your ideas and respect needed for our big game and the wisdom you share on each episode!
Randy, please keep speaking out against this long range sniping at game animals. This stuff is BS and needs to stop!
Unfortunately, the younger crowd are lazy, and gadget crazy.
You need fancy gadgets to snipe (like they saw growing up in movies and video games), and gadgetry means lucrative business.
Same with the bullets. Wowie and soooo “technical”.
Why weren’t they necessary decades ago?
Any real hunter can pick up a rifle AND ammo made a hundred years ago right now…and kill the same game it was meant for way back then.
Hunting at sensible range, no one needs the fancy gear.
The game haven’t changed…
Randy continues to display that he is not an expert, nor will he ever be one with the know it all attitude that anyone who has experience in what he is talking about knows otherwise. Just going on rants with such a high opinion of himself with no consideration at all that the absolutes he talks about are not at all cut and dry as he tries to make everything seem.
sounds like a statement from someone who shoots inadequate bullets at game too far away.
Randy has forgotten more than you ever no
and he do claim he has tested out all this for himself, so what make him better than anyone else ?
@@norseman5041 You obviously have not Followed, followed Randy
Anyone who refers to themselves as "The Real" anything, suggests that he is the only one who knows the reality, and everyone else in the same pursuit is either fake or simply doesn't know what they're talking about. Not only does he assume a pius attitude about any and everything hunting, shooting, and gunsmithing related, but he presents his information as if he's scolding a class of middle schoolers.
Berger is making for hunting paper and hogs nothing else. Definitely the worst hunting bullet I've tried recently.
You know- I have come to realize that if you didn’t shoot it, it wasn’t killed ethically. If you didn’t design it, it doesn’t work properly. If you didn’t see it, it didn’t happen. I understand you have a lot of experience as old as you are but are you just too arrogant to realize that technology has developed that led to better rifles, better bullets and easier ways to obtain rifle DOPE? One thing you said in this video about Berger bullets not being a hunting bullet- I happen to use the VLD Hunting bullets in my rifle and I have never had an animal get away from me. Yes, they enter 2-3 inches before shedding 80% of their weight over the next 10-15 inches but do you not get that the bullet is still driving forward and will exit the animal? Almost all of the energy from this style bullet will be dumped inside the animal? Not trying to sound like I’m hacking down on your knowledge or skills but it would be nice for you to admit you don’t know everything about everything.
You’re so arrogant and set in your ways it’s ridiculous. I’m almost to the point of believing you’re posting all this content of BS just to see what kind of rises you can get out of people like me. You contradict yourself in every single one of your videos. If this really is a comedy act- I’ll admit I laugh at you in every video. Good luck with it!