Everyone Is MAD About This NEW Film Camera
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2025
- The Kickstarter campaign for the new Smartflex large format film camera has got everyone all upset. This new large format camera will have premium build quality and many advanced features, but there is one major controversy about the new camera body.... the price. In this video we take an in depth look at this new film camera and talk about whether we think the price is worth it.
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People who are angry about the price just aren't aware how much it costs to get a camera like that from artisan camera builders. Also remember, it's a 4x5 SLR with a focal plane shutter, nobody made those for something like 80 years, and it's almost impossible to find one in good condition without very extensive mods by skilled craftsmen. John Minnicks who sells Aero Liberators charges $5000 for his ones, and he uses old Graflex RB cameras as donors, rebuilt with a modern wooden body. The 20thCenturyCamera guy had a lot more options to customize your setup with 3D printed parts, but his warehouse burned down a year ago and there isn't much left of his stock.
20thCenturyCamera seems to be slowly restarting now that they have some inventory.
@@MetalDEmpire yeah small steps. It was heartbreaking looking at all the melted parts he dug out of the rubble
Im not too surprised people were angry about the price of this camera but it seems…expensive but reasonable for what they’re making (assuming it hits all promises of the campaign.)
Out of my price range, personally. But the complaints do kinda feel like people wanting new high quality film cameras but not wanting to pay new high quality camera prices. The specs, the materials, the r&d they’ve had to do and the fact this is still a very niche hobby makes that cost feel…justifiable?
I agree with this. Thanks for your comment. I think the pricing is more than fair given the quality of the materials.
People who are angry about the price just aren't aware how much it costs to get a camera like that from artisan camera builders. John Minnicks who builds Aero Liberators charges $5000+ for his ones, and he uses old Graflex RB cameras as donors, but with a modern wooden body made by him. The 20thCenturyCamera guy had a lot more options to customize your setup with 3D printed parts, but his warehouse burned down a year ago and there isn't much left of his stock. Otherwise you'd have to gamble looking for a well kept 90 year old camera, and that's not easy or cheap, especially outside USA.
@@KNURKonesur Blah Blah Blah. Price is a human construct at the end of the day and pushed on people by a system that only works to enrich those with the opportunity or funds to so so. Film is a very expensive hobby in 2025, but only because the system dictates it be so. I started to shoot film again after a break of 15 years and because the younger gen are ok with spending a small fortune for film, the system likes to think that's the price range stupid people want to pay and throws up all kinds of silly stupid excuses to charge 500% more for film. If there is a huge demand for film, then simple economics should dictate that prices should come down. But 40 bucks for a roll of Portra 800 film??? Really?
Sorry but a lot of the price points these days for film is 5 parts price gouging and 1 part inflation+cost of materials. In 2008 I could get a high end MF for a fraction of the stupid prices these days. Same with a pro pack of portra 800 film 120 cost me roughly 29 bucks.
@@glencoe1266 supply and demand is the "human construct".. you were able to pick up a high-end MF camera, because nobody wanted them and you couldn't get rid of them if you tried. Film production facilities adjusted for limited demand.. it's much easier to scale down than to scale up. In the meantime, you deal with higher prices.
@@glencoe1266 Fantasy reasoning based on long outdated scales of economy.
I'm a backer. Like Backer #5 for the camera and lens. I've been interested in this camera since before they even discussed selling them. I have shot thousands of sheets of film, 4x5 up to 12x20, including last year having bought a Graflex Super D and having shot hundreds of sheets with it, so I would say I'm pretty familiar with large format and 4x5 specifically. The lens they've designed/manufactured is pretty unique, and the design of the camera is just the Super D but modern with new parts. The price is expensive (yes it'd be nice if it was cheaper) but for what you get, it's reasonable. It's not just a flexible box with a hole in the front like Intrepid's camera or most LF cameras. Projects like this should be supported for bringing something new to market - and if it isn't appropriate for your work, simply don't buy it.
Like a Super D but the aperture doesn't stop down when the shutter is triggered right?
@adamruzzamenti3762 yes, which personally hasn't been as much use as I thought it'd be. I've shot mostly at f5.6 on my Super D. Supposedly the ground glass will be much finer ground and brighter negating the need for auto aperture. The Super D is definitely very dim and needs all the help it can get.
The film community reminds me of old people in my family: They think they can rub two nickles together and gain a quarter. If you're looking at high prices for a camera like this and balking, wait until you see the development/shooting costs. Large format is a medium that required a bit of an investment, saying it lightly.
Most people looking at those cameras are way to young (me included) to remember how expensive professional film cameras where. A new camera of that level was never cheap and this is not that of compared to how much these cameras back in the days.
Plus it's a 4x5 SLR with a focal plane shutter... as far as I'm aware, nobody made those for 80 years, and there are only a couple guys in recent history to even attempt refurbishing those cameras so they actually work, and that ain't cheap, John Minnicks charges $4000-5000 for his Aero Liberators
My grandfather bought his RB super D new in Rochester NY for $150 dollars in 1948. I have the original invoice. I’m sure that was a pretty penny back then!
@stevenminer9863 apparently $150 in 1948 had the same purchasing power as $1965 today. So close it's not even funny :D
@Amphibax @@KNURKonesur "Back in the days", when photographers worked for newspapers and easily earned a living wage without selling their souls on social media. John Minnicks is an artisan, and one who works alone. Do you have any sound arguments or are you only repeating the two-three comments every superficial person is spouting on the subject? It's a painted 3d printed camera with one cnc alu part. Hardware manufacturing is not yet in this sorry state you're describing. But it will be if people blindly throw money at inflated prices like these.
@@KNURKonesur except the people at Folmer & Schwing, then Graflex, invented the camera and didn't have any prior examples to open up and duplicate for f sake.
Those accordion cameras are truly something but I’m sure that handling them in rougher conditions was quite the uphill battle.
Yes. That said, in the early XX century they didn't have much choice and did it anyway :D
Lugging an ordinary VN plate job around in the late 40s and early fifties really put the arm muscles to t est!! glass plates flash gear leather large camera bag.,,no wonder press lads leaned to one side!!
I would disregard the majority of the negative almost harassment level comments on reddit because I can guarantee the majority of them have never touched large format and even fewer of them have even held a Graflex SLR in their hands. Sure, if Smartflex wanted to release a cheaper 4x5 SLR with no bells and whistles they probably could have just copy and pasted a Graflex just to release it for a $1500 or less. People would complain regardless! I can support their mission in trying to modernize large format because in all reality...there is only so many ways to design a field camera before they all look the same. At least SmartFlex is trying to bring an old system into the modern age with new engineering and new materials. Old Graflexes are falling apart, needing repair, and only a handful of repair technicians are available to fix them (mainly in the US and Canada). In the end youll end up paying close to $2000 just to get a working camera. There is clearly a market for this camera given the kickstarter funding.
Nobody ever touches on this, and everyone easily justifies them with the camera being a "new development" or "hard", or with the nonsensical argument that "cameras were so expensive 60 years ago", when photography was a viable job that easily paid a living wage. People are just, and mostly, pissed because the team attracted their public with the promise of a 3D printed camera at a decent price "we have figured out how to make it affordable" and then transitioned to the final premium grade price tag thanks to a few bells and whistles, including a paint job and a CNC backplate. They did a pretty good job but got greedy in the end when they saw the numbers on their socials. People blindly praising only show the state of things when it comes to hardware production, which is frankly a bit sad. At the final price tag, the camera should have been full aluminium and a "forever" camera.
If you think they can make this with a full aluminum body at this pricepoint as a bunch of nobodies with no factory connections etc, idk you are just delusional. Will i ever buy this product? Certainly not at that price point, but they are allowed to make money off their years of hard work.
@ Hey, Panomicron has done a 199£ Anamorphic that covers 35mm (sells the STEP files too), in Switzerland. By comparison, Moment sells one that covers the average smartphones angle of view, made in China, for a bit less. It's the greed dial-Panomicron's is dialled on near zero, probably focused on growing the community and helping it, others are in a different spot-not saying making money off work is bad eh, just pointing out that there's something left unaddressed in the blind praise I'm seeing around. Also, worse situation, no factory connections but also no Chinese language ability and a masters degree in course - just raw passion and figuring it out by himself.
What bells & whistles does it have? Only had a quick look at it, but the price is quite normal for an LF camera. To me the lens was much more interesting, as the camera is quite direct copy of the Graflex SLR.
as someone who has seen one of these in person (a preproduction copy, one of two in the US) these are incredible, and the weight is quite impressive. have i shot one? no. however i did get the chance to inspect and get my hands on one, and i must say out of the recent new cameras we’ve seen hit the market they are the highest quality.
This Camera just got several hundred dollars more expensive yesterday, perhaps more as the trade war wrecks everything. This project seems somewhat solid.
The Analogue one - I'd be shocked if that ever ships, or if it does, I can't imagine it lives up to those specs.
As far as I heard the company behind Analogue already released several successful products and they are doing the pre-sale to gague interest... But that's just what I heard from a different YT video, I didn't really do any research into the topic.
@@KNURKonesur My issue is that they claimed the renderings were created from real CAD models. Well, the renderings don't include a film door, lol. Also, the list of features reads like a Contax mated with a Konica AF then was bred with a Nikon Ti.
I’m not gonna lie I was expecting a price that was something ridiculous like 10k since even shooting large format is expensive but 3400 is only about as expensive as like buying a medium format digital camera maybe even less. Honestly doesn’t even seem like a bad price if that’s the kind of photography you want to do too
This is a 5x4 SLR.. honestly putting this and an intrepid in the same catagory is like putting a a small electric car and a tesla next to each other. Yes, both get you from A to B, but totally different beasts. As a Graflex Crown Graphic owner, my main bugbear is having to swap over from the ground glass to film back to take a picture. With this you wont need to (I hope). I did also see another video talking about the price and they worked out the last 4x5 SLR camera that was produced many decades ago would cost about the same, with inflation.
My main problem us totally cosmetic. It just looks like a massive holga to me. Still would like to see how it performs.
I find it wild how people jumped on the "Analogue is a scam" bandwagon so quickly, defended them a bit myself. I see it the same way... They are way to transparent to be your typical kickstarter scam, and we need companies to want to invest in creating new gear if we want this hobby to survive. At some point, all the used gear will start to become unrepairable...
As soon as I heard they were making their own lens for this I knew it would be expensive, along with the carbon fiber and magnesium body parts. I own several of the Nons and MiNT cameras and the Asian manufacturers are making a sincere effort but can't get around the economies of scale and costs. Aside from the price three things will count against this:
1. It doesn't look like a premium camera; with the multiple color schemes it looks like a plastic 3D printed toy. Compare that with old school Graflex cameras or something like a Horseman that looks like it would survive being tossed from an airplane.
2. It doesn't seem to share compatibility with other camera systems so lenses, finders, flash, etc. you'd need to adapt.
3. Offering the ability to use the Lomograflok back and an adapter for the lens with a smartphone shows this is geared to a younger crowd, most of whom this would be their first foray into large format. The trouble I see is the idea of a film photographer doesn't always match the experience. I see a lot of people shooting a couple of packs of film and once the time/costs of developing is added in just lose interest.
we're also talking about a camera developed from scratch
.. machining, fabrication, integrating medium format back, phone, Instax
I'm most interested in the LF lens made with modern glass. That with color reversal film would crush digital.
So many folks in the analog community are utterly unrealistic about the price of new cameras. The mechanism for a 4x5 SLR has got to be pretty complex, and these Smartflex look reasonably well built.
Personally, I'm not super interested in the style of camera. If I were to get into large format, I'd rather a standard bellows camera, to play with movements. You can get a Chamonix or Shen Hao for about half the price of one of these, with much more premium build than Intrepid, and still have a lot of money for lenses, film backs and holders, and a very strong tripod.
This is a large format SLR, miles different from the Intrepid or any other view or field camera. With view cameras you pretty much have to use a tripod. With field cameras you can use a rangefinder and shoot handheld but you either lose through the lens viewing for composition or have to compose, slide in the film holder then try to put the camera right back where it was when you composed the shot.
With the Smartflex you can use it the same as any smaller format SLR, just compose an fire the shutter. This is very useful for environmental portraiture or other uses where the loose feel of a handheld camera is desired.
An SLR is an immensely more complex device than a view camera with many moving parts.
Although I ended up not getting the Smartflex, I think the price is reasonable for a modern SLR and the amazing lens. Yes, a Graflex SLR and lens is a third to half the price but you are then buying an 80 year old camera with all the potential problems that you can get with that. The Smartflex also has modern features that the Graflex doesn’t.
The Smartflex is a great looking camera for natural outdoor daylight shooting. But the 1/15th max flash sync speed is really a big issue as you basically can't use flash. Correct me if I am wrong.
You realistically can't get any faster with such a large shutter though, if they used a leaf shutter that could be different but then you can't use barrel lenses
just get a leaf shutter lens and a tripod
@@yinansun6881 They should mention compatibility with leaf shutter lenses for high flash sync as this point is not entirely clear.
We just need current camera makers to go back to making film cameras like they used to. Canon, Nikon mamiya back to making the cameras we want.
It's such a pleasure for someone to support a little startup that is doing something good for the community!
Well thought out, well presented. Thanks.
Thank you!
Agree with your conclusions here. Gained a sub :)
I ordered the Analogue, I’m not sure why everyone has lost their marbles over it. If it never comes out, who cares? I lost $5. If it does come out, and doesn’t match exactly their ambitious feature set? Geez, it’s a new film camera, I’ll get $300 ish of fun out of it.
The Smatflex is interesting. I don’t shoot large format yet, but am researching options and came across it some months ago. I probably will go for something more traditional, if only because I’ll have a much easier time finding support among the local photo community.. but the phone back and instax back are cool ideas that could help a photo learn large format more quickly.
Perhaps-I’m not all that thrilled with the instax back on my Hasselblad. I suppose that has as much to do with instax film than the back, tho.
Sure, large format cameras themselves are expensive but actually using them is where the pricing gets absurd. Color 4x5 is anywhere from $6-8 an exposure so if you shot an average of 7 photos per week (1 per day) that would already be anywhere from $2200 to $3000 a year just for the cost of the film, disregarding the cost of developing, scanning and printing, I feel it would be 3x at that point. I'm personally waiting for a new medium format film camera like that new Pentax camera that's been floating around in the rumor mill as I think medium format is the perfect balance of image quality and pricing amongst 35mm, MF, and LF.
Why do you need color? Personally I think a lot of folks would make stronger images if they stopped shooting so much color. Especially with a sheet film camera where you can switch to color for one shot if it really calls for color. Myself, I've shot hundreds of sheets of film with my Graflex Super D in just the year or so I've owned it, mostly x-ray film that costs me about $0.11 per shot.
Uffda! I'm excited that new cameras are being made. Maybe this means other manufacturers will see the demand and make other cameras as well.
I believe that Smartflex is doing something really cool by taking the Graflex SLR design and throwing it back into the limelight, and the complaints that people have: some are valid and some aren't. However, they have to keep in mind that this is the beginning of a new line of cameras that have a lot of potential.
F2 for large format is insane.
Mind boggling
I need this so I can finally shoot instax wide on a premium camera
Great idea. I am happy to get Makiflex last autumn. (with tilt shift attachment) Heavy duty, precise metal LF SLR.
I think this price is fair, consider R & D and building and the costs add up. Honestly, shooting large format is not cheap in itself.
I totally agree.
You forgot Chamonix C45-F2: Lightweight like Intrepid cameras (nearly the same weight), and much, much higher quality (and usability). Much more expensive (nearing $2.000 at the moment), but not as much as Linhof (or the Smartflex). At 4x5, Chamonix is the better choice - but at 8x10, the Intrepid is the smarter choice. (And then there's Shen Hao, but I don't have any experience with those.) The Smartflex is a special case and not comparable with all these view cameras. It would not be for me, but those who are interested it might be an interesing solution and offer.
Price seems okay to me for what this is.
Same
Just received my smartflex along with smartnon 178 f2, it's absolutely amazing
These builders, and kudos, didn't learn lessons from the past. 4x5 was necessary when film sucked. Ansco . . . other films, were slow and grainy . . . that's why press photographers used Graflex cameras, and they relied on crude, cam driven rangefinders for focus. Ansel Adams only got into galleries because he shot shit film but 8x10 format.
The fatal flaw in this camera is the reflex mirror box limits lenses to medium focal length and longer . . . no wide angle. So you get fast shooting for portrait sessions in daylight or studios, but you are screwed in low light and landscape work.
Finally, if you do fast work on film, the old 6x7 cameras with modern film get the job done.
An attorney who doesn't want to spend more time in court. You are certainly something.
Its neat but it also seems a bit limiting compared to a standard 4x5 as you dont get the same movements you can do with a view camera. There is nothing wrong with that its just something to consider when talking about capabilities of the camera. As for the prIce i say its fair. Adjusted for inflation it costs just about as much as an rb67 pro s body without a lens back in the day. People in the film community seem to forget the reason most film cameras are relatively cheap is because they are old and used equipment. Props to the folks bringing it to market. Even if its not something I want its good to see new film cameras being made.
Quote of the Day: “The pricing was pretty low…for a car.”
Good video BUT-I happy with my 4x5 Graflex that I pick up 41 years ago when I was working at a camera store, Bought it with a complete 4x5 kit - Camera, holders(12) Flash gun, filters, 4x5 roll film adapter to do 6x7 images, and a Graphmatic 4x5 holder with 6 holders, and a Leather Case, as I had the camera check out making sure the camera functions were well, as using it was fun, and that it cost me $499.00, and I also got the Lomo back so I can use the fuji wide Instax since that in the 80's & 90's I was using Polaroid 4x5 film all the time using type55 P/N film, and type59 Color print in doing Images Transfers.. So WHY?? do I need this $3000 Grand 4x5 Box Brownie to be better?? The camera is Not going to make the images Better, you not going to be a pro in using this camera, I have seen other You Tubers shooting large format from 2x3 to 11x14 size cameras. You have to make the images by pre visual your imaging.
OK, premium materials equals premium price, but do those premium materials produce a better photo? In this case the premium materials are specifically known for being light weight. But does light weight equal a better photo?
This camera looks so good and I hope they succeed~ I don’t think I’m comfortable dishing that much on any Kickstarter though 🙈 but also, maybe I don’t want a 4x5 haha
New cameras are exciting! Almost as exciting as obscure antique cameras. I just stumbled across the Zeiss Ikon Tenax, it has an interesting format on 35mm.
People should try German Balda Super Pontura 6x9
In all honesty, this is a dead end street. Designing then constructing for yourself is one thing, but trying to fund, design, construct then market very old technology is another. Take old cars for example, its great to see a restored, or modified vehicle on the road and many of us would love to own one, but is there a market for mass produced 1957 Chevy's again? Yes, retro is cool and some camera manufactures have offered some good old school style with modern innards, but the mass market will not embrace it like it once was. Large format cameras are not something that the average hipster can pick up and start using, and as others have stated, its costs are hard to justify. I love film, but left it years ago because my clients demanded more, and digital fulfills their needs and makes my life easier.......and my pocketbook as well!
I was just watching a doco on Polaroid: the SX-70 was about $1200 in today's money on release: did people whinge? Probably. Did the ysell heaps? Absolutely
You want an inexpensive 4x5 SLR? Buy an older Graflex and have it rebuilt. Seems a lot of people have no issue blowing $4K on a gaming computer and $1K for a video card ever other year, but lose their minds when they have to buy a quality camera. Like any other product in the market, if you don't want it, don't buy it. Pretty simple.
Smartflex and Intrepid cameras aren't very similar at all. They both take pictures on 4x5 film, and that's where the similarity ends. There's a big reason they are not in the same price class, and it's not (just) about build quality.
The Intrepid is a field camera, which uses bellows so it can fold up, and requires focusing on a ground glass back which you then replace with film (or insert the film in front of) before taking a picture. It has no shutter, so it relies on the lens having a built-in leaf shutter, as most do. It's an extremely simple camera, mechanically, with no moving parts other than those which support focusing and folding up when not in use.
The Smartflex is a SLR, with a mirror and a viewfinder on top, in a rigid body, with a focal-plane shutter in the back. You can compose and take a picture just by pressing a button, no need to mess with the film first, so no need for a tripod. The focal-plane shutter also means you can use lenses which don't have their own shutters.
I’d rather buy the intrepid, it has movements, and you can use all lenses and backs you need. And for that price, I’d rather get a Toyo.
I'm not mad about it - I'm straight up ambivalent.
got my sub on this. This is a respectable post. You are basically just telling me that I need to research the investments I want...hmmmm...sounds like responsibility. Yeh you definitely don't want to get caught up in slander cases for sure. Glad to have found your channel mate and since I just jumped into large format and revisiting 16,35,120,etc I am always pleased with new content. Keep up the good stuff. I also find this very reasonably priced if it delivers on its promises especially the R&D that would have to go into making something that's basically nonexistent all over again. Design and development are expensive. Honestly Id price this upwards of 5K if it really delivers with years of use.
Well you don’t have to back it, but if they can pull it off at least a proof on concept. And other competitors may join in.
It looks like a lovely camera. It is out of my range to afford and I think that is the problem many are having. The hobby has to be inexpensive for the majority. Intrepid thankfully makes a quality product that is affordable. This product is not and people are upset about it as they feel they are being priced out of the hobby. Hopefully in time if they are successful they can make a cheaper verison with less exotic materials and perhaps a more affordable optic. Which is probably the most expensive part of this camera. This may simply be for a richer clientel such as Leica customers. I'll be sticking to my Super D.
Super expensive, but also…. Don’t buy it if you can’t afford it. Small production runs can be very inefficient.
I’m still baffled by the mamiya 7s cost $3000.
However tbh I believe you’ll be better off with a linhoff or grafflex. Happy to see new film cameras though
I think you and sheepskin are just coming at from to different perspectives honestly
Versatile? The camera does not have movements like the Intrepid. I will suggest people wait.
I agree. This is definitely not a replacement for a traditional view camera.
Film is dead by now, it’s too expensive, I haven’t shit film in 5 years or so, it doesn’t makes sense anymore and I have a 645, a 6x7 and 35mm cameras.
The camera is a copy of a Graflex Super D.
Cool 😎
There aren’t? Really? What do you call Chamonix? Arca Swiss but it’s heavy , I get it but it exists. Shen hao .
🙌🏻🙌🏻
lol…..lemmings? There is NOTHING I miss about shooting 4x5; graduated Art Center 1980, commercial shooter since…and 4x5 exclusively for years, near daily. In fact, there’s nothing I miss about film either! Digital is SUPERIOR. Besides, film REQUIRES knowledge of Filters…and getting it RIGHT, in camera….WITH NO PREVIEW!!!! The good old days are right now!
Good for you. It's not for you. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Those who want to use it, don't care what you think.
The price is insane and I hate how they call it "portable". Intrepid is portable. This is a giant expensive box. None of those fancy materials it's made out of are going to make your photos better. Buy an intrepid. Several lenses. A lomo back. And film and have money left over.
You can't shoot the Intrepid or almost any 4x5 camera whilst looking through the lens. If it doesn't matter to YOU, then great don't buy it. There are very few LF cameras that you can shoot handheld and have an actual live view for focusing/composing. A few options for rangefinder focusing, even fewer with combined RF/VF, but an SLR is uncommon - pretty much just the Graflex. Have you seen prices for a Gowlandflex TLR-style 4x5 cameras?? And talk about heavy.
@havefilmwilltravel5860 you most certainly can look through the lens on the intrepid. That's how you compose and focus. Then you slide the screen out, slide the film in and shoot.
@@youravantgarde I think you know what I meant. You can not look through the lens on any typical LF camera while you actually click the shutter. Which is why some people are interested in an SLR. I've shot thousands of sheets of 4x5, with Chamonix, Linhof, Graflex, Toyo, Intrepid, etc. cameras.
@havefilmwilltravel5860 if you shot that much then you should understand why this camera is unnecessary. Are you going to buy one?
For some reason YT keeps not taking my comment. I'm Backer #5. No LF or film camera is "necessary" to make photos - your "opinion" is not a fact. Just use your cell phone.
No matter the price, I'll reconsider buying a large format camera once someone make one that accepts 4x5 iilm in a roll. Course I'm too lazy filling those stupid film holders.
You think I'm joking? What do U think U2 spy planes used before they switched to digital? 35mm film? Silly rabbit...
Not sure I'd want to fork out $$$ for a roll of 4x5 film. 10 sheets at a time though? Maybe
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