Boiling Water in Fresh Animal Hide? Experimental Archaeology, Historical Survival Skills
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- Опубліковано 20 січ 2022
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#history #survival #Scotland
Very interesting, all the more so because it's an honest experiment Infront of the camera, flaws and all.
I would be interested in seeing further attempts with different methods.
This brings up an excellent point that a lot of would be survivalists miss: make sure you can actually do the things you've read about before you actually need to do so.
It's also possible that "boil" doesn't mean a fast rolling boil, but rather just hot enough to lose water, which seems to have happened, and might be just hot enough to cook oats (poorly) or something like that (like using the hot water faucet to make instant noodles in jail >XD ). This is a primitive method after all, and it might be expected that there were reasons we stopped doing it.
This method was used here in sweden too, but another thing often used to boil water or food was making boxes from the bark of birch. The edges is held up by woodpegs formed as a tight u, and the sheet of thin bark should be wet when formed to shape.
I think this might have been done in scotland too...
Us, Native Americans + First Nations (Canadians) also did.
I remember reading that near artic tribes would kill something like a musk ox and not only boil water in the skin but cook the meal in the skin using the bones for the fire. I don’t know how they would persuade bones to burn in freezing conditions.
I have seen this done twice with seal bones. They use a small fire made with sticks. They place the bones over and around the fire like a teepee. They place a large chunk of blubber (fat) over top. The small flame heats the fat and it melts into the bones and then it burns that way. This was also a method demonstrated to me when I was at the Northern Warfare Training Center in Alaska.
With a fresh hide right from the deer with the left over bits still on the hide making some kind of broth. And with said broth you could make a soup. Probably not a good soup but it's soup.
I remember as a kid the school library had a book, a journal of sorts. It give a account of a first encounter with a tribe in the Amazon, the tribe had no contact with modern civilization and only reason they made contact was due to a disease that had affected a village near to them. They were moving out the area an met loggers. Anyway I remember that they was a non metal culture, an used skins to cook with. They were observed cooking food in skin containers not directly over a fire but to the side, but used leaves that were fresh cut tied to base of skins to avoid damage to container. The film industry years later did a film on the encounter but glittered it up, the emerald Forrest
Just started watching this video. I thought the early cauldrons were a skin stretched over the fire (like a shade-sail), generally a triangle shape with each corner held up atop small wooden poles
Use the stomach-hide cauldron like a pan (with a depression above the fire) instead a pot.
Just wanted to write the same as Kristi ×D. But that method of triangle cauldron was used above the embers usually, not the fire. That was enough for small amount of liquid ( to boil water or coock a stew). As for a frying pan - flat stone works best.
I have seen this method but with 4 points instead of a triangle. The hide was stretched over 4 vertical poles but allowed to sag in the middle. It was suspended over embers. Some twine was used to tie the hide into the poles. The man boiled about 3 gallons in the hide at a time. It uses a bigger hide but it provides more liquid.
Oh, I bet that scorching deer hair adds a lovely complexity of flavor to one's tea and porridge! ha ha ha
This is a really great experiment! Thanks for sharing. We really do learn as much from the failures as from the successes. I'm mostly an armchair survivalist and I've never actually tried it, but it seems like stone boiling in a stomach would be the way to go in this scenario. That's how the Plains Indians did it here in North America, and I guess it's how the Highlanders did it, too. Heating up a few rocks seems much more efficient and goof-proof than trying to hang a bag of hide over a fire.
Wouldn't even necessarily require a stomach. The traditional way of doing it in Ireland is in a hole dug in the ground. They're called folacht fia (deer holes) and the remains of them are quite commonly found in farmers fields and such. It might sound unsanitary but the boiling water is more than enough to sterylise anything that mixes into the broth. There's also a story of one being used to feast a god in the leabhair gabhála éireann.
@@peterhoulihan9766 You mean dig a hole, line it with the deer skin, and then fill that with water? I could see that working really well.
@@whistlingbadger Some historical examples were lined with wood or stone, others were just dug straight into the ground (deep enough for the soil to be compact and not turn into mud). I've never heard of skin being used as a liner but I suppose it could be.
"From the ashes of disaster, grow the roses of success." This was a good try... but there is a reason it is called experimental archeology. The Sioux used the paunch (stomach) of a freshly killed buffalo... so MORE experiments are needed at some point down the road, in the future.
5:51am! Where's the stew? Lol!!! Roadkill stew is great! I have made many items , into " cook pots".. bones, pine needle baskets, clay from a river bank, and seen someone do...as you are experimenting with..
The technique, was to use a low fire, surrounded in stones, mounded to look like a beehive shape, n the space between the stones allowed the fire to breathe! There was a hole at the bottom, to feed the fire,n the bag," cook pot skin" was suspended over it by a tripod..(note: the heat from the stones, radiated the heat, to cook,not so much as the fire, to allow the boiling to " condition " the skin)... red /white willow reeds made the frame of the pot
N the skin stretched over it to maintain the shape, as it cooked! The inspiration/ source .." Powhatan people" of the Virginia's in the USA!
GREAT start for a series!
👍🍯🧙♂️🍯👍!
Interesting, also some useful suggestions in the other comments. I've shown Scouts how to boil water in a paper cup, orange skin (interesting tea!) &even an eggshell. Having the fire in the cooking embers stage was helpful. You're maki g some very good videos here, thank you!
The smell from the fur burning off must've been powerful. Good thing you did this outside.
Great idea.
I wonder if with the skin bag, you could put hot stones from the fire, in the bag. Boil from the inside.
Yeah to me that would be a better method for this type of skin, but sometimes good stones are not always to hand and it says in the book it was suspended over the fire.
@@FandabiDozi
Ok.
In the book, did it say it worked? Haha... Love watching your videos.
I re-enact over here in the US. Watching your videos and a few others help give me ideas off how to be a little bit more historically accurate. Thanks again.
Or, would a bed of coals work better than the flame
I have seen a method using 4 posts with the hide out over them and the water boiled in that. I do not know how the hide was treated. That being said, maybe the water wasn't actually boiled. Maybe it was pasteurized. And even though it would stretch, I think that brain tanned hide would work great because of how it absorbs water.
a couple of observations. One, maybe shorten the hanging cord, or conversely, allow the fire to get to hot coals stage before attempting to boil. I do believe a hairless skin may have been more effective. good video though as it shows how trial and error is the method our ancestors used to figure out what works and what doesn't.
"Burnt hair tea," just right afer a hard days work.! Very cool video.
*This video shows the importance of Iron much more than any swords or armor.*
I've always thought "boiling water in a skin" was done by setting the skin bag near the fire but not close enough to burn it and then putting hot stones from the fire into the water. I've never tried this, but I'm told you neeed to be very careful what kind of stones you use as some will "explode" and send shards flying, either while they're being heated or when they're dropped hot into cold water/soup... .
I saw this video when it first came out about a month ago and set to research after watching it and predictably lost track of it for a month lol; there was actually a research article I found in that time span about the exact same type of experiment being conducted at, of all places, the University of York. What they seemed to have established at the time of the article is that 1.) The hot stone method seems to have worked best, and 2.) The experiment should definitely be conducted with a single piece of hide with no additions or adulteration to it, fur side out to the fire, and having the fur singed off prior to the boiling process. Beyond that, I have heard of the "hanging triangle" and "hanging square" methods that other people have mentioned being used successfully from different sources. The article did seem to suggest though that the process takes a VERY long time (I believe they said they waited four hours with no boil). I'm thinking that other people's suggestions to wait until the fire reaches a coal state on embers and a lower skin to said coals and embers is the ticket; my guess is that it would achieve the stone method effect exothermically rather than endothermically.
Now THIS is excellent content, Fandabi ! Well done, Old Son!!!
That is absolutely disgusting! Fantastic work!
In military, we used to hold frozen water bottles in fire to melt water when it was -21C outside. Tasted a bit funny but no visible melting :D
Cool to see the same concept in a historical setting
sounds like a good time, ive always been told to take canteens off your kit and put them inside your uniform or inner layers so your bodyheat keeps them liquid and you can top off your canteens with snow and it'll melt that way, but i guess in a situation where you need water right the hell now boiling the cans up enough to melt the ice down works too.
ive always been a bit leery about hot liquids and my canteens though, if it picks up a taste its a bad canteen :/
@@Claire-xk5bb always remember to keep a layer or two between the canteen and skin. As for the taste, I don't think it can be avoided when fire touches the plastic. Some microdoses of plastic will melt
Western author Louis La'Mour occasionally mentioned using a bowl made of tree bark to boil water, (his characters likely learning it from native Americans,) much like boiling an egg in a paper cup like some may have done at one point or another. If nothing else the concept is sound, would never have guessed hide would be used the same way, but it should work.
Try reweting it several times over the course of boiling. Temperature inide will stay practicaly the same but outside will have constatnt evaporation cooling system.
I've seen some old woodcuts from the 16th century depicting the Irish using raw hides to cook over a fire. Undoubtedly this was a very ancient method, along with the "fulachta fiadh".
Fandabi Dozi 👍
I think it would work best if the hide had been treated to make it as porous as possible. I've never attempted this but from the descriptions I've heard it works by allowing a lot of the water through the hide to protect it from burning. I'm not sure that could be done with a fresh hide. Another option might be to slather the bottom of the hide with fat, which would similarly act as both a heat conductor and regulator.
Fat would cause quite a lot of flare ups though as it dripped into the fire, if the fat were applied to something haired like this, I suspect it might just be insulated enough to catch on fire itself.
@@jermainerace4156 Yeah, that's true.
I remember reading a book about the Fianna and Finn McCool cooking deer that way.
I think it would be a way to stew meat at a pinch, but not for drinking. You'll be drinking hide glue. That's probably how hide glue was discovered.
Hide glue is basically just collagen. You can eat it. It's the equivalent to very strong jello.
@@slc308 you're right, but I think I'd give it a miss, Lol!
@@greenjack1959l oh I agree 100%. But at least it wouldn't kill you. So in the future if you need it, you know it's safe enough. Lol
Great video man, really enjoying the highlander survival content, keep em coming!
Failures can be more important than successes 😎
This was fun. Thanks guys.
Thanks, as always you inspire me to keep in mind that new is not always better. The best stuff has been discovered and then lost.
Very cool man. Love your channel 😁👍
Very good!
Yeah the hair on wont work. The water has to be as close to the skin as possible , both to get hot and keep the skin cool while boiling. A smoke tanned stomach or hide works best. The hadza tribe of tanzania use goat stomachs and skins alot in their cooking. They would cook it in a skin with plenty of fat, then when it cools a bit they would pack it intomthe stomach to carry on a pole, like a hobo's kit. You would be surprised what you can cook with. I seen a woman cook an entire rabbit stew in a shopping bag over an open fire.
Interesting.
I wish you would do a video covering your jackets and vest's, not simply what they do, but how to find them, what they are, etc etc. I have tried to look up your jacket, but I absolutely can't find one because I don't know what it is.
excellent
I would have to be pretty thirsty. I've processed enough hide to know that the water in that skin would be.... Flavored. Also, I can't imagine the smell of all the burning hairs haha. Thanks for taking the hit for us on this one.
But yeah...you definitely need to remove the fur, to make this more efficient. Hair is for insulation, after all. It would probably also look just a little more appetizing 😉
Nice video
Not all survival lore is lost. There are a bunch of books called "Foxfire" that teaches you tried and true survival techniques. Might be out of print however!
Gives a new meaning to 'boil in the bag'.
Interesting guys, good to see what works and also what doesn't. Something to think about...
What did the highlanders do keep there cloths clean and dry in winter, when there out on the hills for few weeks?
"The earths children" books by Jean m auel explains how this was done during the paleolithic period in europe .
Dig a small hole in the ashes. Totally wet the skin and line the hole with it hair to the ash. The heat and ash should remove the hair while the water inside boils.
I'm guessing at this. There may also be some functional information in the concept of cuir bouilli armoring.
The North American native Americans boiled water in the buffalo hump long before they traded for iron pots .......
I'm not sure if I really needed this information...but it was interesting 😅
Interesting experiment Tom , I dare say I too would not venture for a cup of tea with this method lol 😂 . I would stick to finding an empty beer can or bottle , like you guys said maybe remove the hair first. Need to do some research on it mate, look forward to your next video mate :-).
As always Tom, interesting trials. Love it. Don't fancy the tea though 🤢
You could try using the scull of the animal or a hollowed out bone
loll Somebody call Vogue. That's a fabulous handbag🤪
My idea, and it's based completely in my own ignorance but, my idea would be three fold; first would be a much larger bag, second remove all the hair and third, try it over coals and not an open fire.
Edit: Bigger bag means more surface area to absorb heat, less hair means less in the way to block that heat and I'm pretty sure coals throw more infrared light (ie, "heat") than a quote unquote, regular fire.
LOL HOPE U TRIED THIS AGAIN AND IT WORKED FOR U BOTH AND HAVE A TEA LOL
@Fandabi Dozi my guess is a hole in the ground with the water skin in the center with a bunch of hot coals
Was whiskey stills ever used for making water safe for drinking.
How do you guys find the knife laws in Scotland? The Sgian Dubh is a fixed blade knife, so not suitable for every day carry. Have you guys ever had any grief from the police? The reason I ask is that I am planning on doing some wild camping in the national parks and I own several bush craft knives, and heard about Scottish courts handing out draconian punishments for relatively minor knife offenses. I know that taking a camp knife camping is entirely legal, but obviously there is a difference between theory and practise. Any advice would be gratefully received.
We learned from this. We learned this method doesn't work all that well. 👍👍👍👍👍
first thing that cane to mind was the glues from the skin getting in the water and affecting it. but im sure it depends on boiling time and volume of water used
Hide glue is collagen. Basically very strong jello. Safe to eat though.
@@slc308 yea it might add an odd flavor
I'd be vomiting from the smell of the burning fur.
I know it would take a while, but you could if you want to, make a small card/board game
To do with your research you have done
Try hot rocks instead of over a fire, might work better.
Och man,I can smell that frae here...stinkin'...
Nice experiment guys ... but it isn't going to work.
I reckon you can ( with practice ) get consistently, very hot water.
Boiling water - not a chance
I guess it's nice for soup but not really to drink it
Well ancients in Europe rarely boiled water! They believed that "gods" and "Faire folk" made them sick. They often drank from both running water and still water, often having to dismiss the inevitable "craps" later on! Most folks in the Middle Ages were dead by 30 anyway. Just kidding. Likely by 50 although one serf managed to live to 104 years (how??) And as a birthday gift he received a visit from the King himself!
Hi
eww, smell of burnt hair.
interesting concept. "Experiential Archeology along with some Experimental Anthropology"
first
How about you shave all the fur off of the skin, and then you won't get that horrible burnt animal look.
Also dont cook on the flame. cook over a bed of coals, maybe even just higher up above the flames but not in their reach.
The column of hot air rising in the center will be half as strong so it will take longer, and the bag will still shrink:
Perhaps first build a basket and shrink the hide around it.
Then, oil and wash the outside, and wash the inside.