Funny that emotion and logic is brought up in this video, because every time we have to make a choice that shifts our alignment, it's either you follow your emotions, passions and heart, you follow cold logic and pragmatism, or you find a balance and harmony between the two, and one particular logical option stood out in the war within, destroying, controlling or consuming the kuva. If you consume the Kuva, Wally asks you what took you so long. If you destroy the Kuva, Wally asks if you are angry with them, and if you decide to control the Kuva Wally will remind you that you are nothing without them. Makes me wonder what this will all culminate to down the line, because there has to be a reason we are making these choices at such key moments in game.
@@THEROOKIE6666I hope we get a chance to replay most of these choices *without* the need for making a new account if this is what happens, I'm curious how Wally would treat you as an "ally" vs enemy vs neutral.
@@TheDsIEGE 😉 Already there. The question though is exactly what you asked. Will we feel, will we care and do we want to try to save those we’ve come to love? ❤️ I’m going full balanced or full “save em” mode for personal reasons that I hope can be better explained one day.
By the void, how am I suppose to remember what I chose 6 years ago? This game is a mind trip and a super long burn... and it's fantastic! Somewhere at DE there is full record of where the player base leans on every choice made. Is this what Wally needs? Keeping record of us the third aspect of our trinity?
You know, there was one single detail in the Hex quest that I noticed that I don't think anyone has pointed out yet. When the Indifference takes Entrati, he is badly bruised and beaten. Yet when the countdown hits zero, not only is Entrati there in person when he shouldn't be. He is also perfectly healed. In addition and i think this adds more to what Dsiege was saying. When Albert says "That's it isn't it. The poison to your plan.... Love" I don't think he's saying that the Indifference's weakness is love or that its the means of stopping what its planning, but that it is using love as a poison to get what it wants. Albrecht even says that in order to save the Hex we must know them, make bonds, but it's an uninjured Albrecht Entrati who is telling us this. Additionally when the Drifter is back on the Ten-Zero, it seems strange that Indifference would go out of its way to try and get a reaction out of us, an emotion, if 'and it be knowing' that the very emotion that it would be its weakness it's "poison" to it's plans would be formed by it egging the Drifter on. Even the second part of the quest where you go back to save them, with their bonds now formed, the indifference still antagonizes the Drifter in a way that makes me think it wants the Drifter to keep pushing themselves to save the Hex. Something that it should have no reason to care about if it has already gotten what it wanted, Albrecht Entrati. With all that being said, does it not make sense that the Indifference is ' poisoning' the Drifter by the means of 'love'? This was afterall the very same update that came with a romance system, a means to make the Drifter not want to leave? A new loop, a new prison based around emotions much like Duviri? Makes me wonder and i think it, of not partly, aligns with what Dsiege is thinking.
Pretty flawed thinking imo. First of all tho, please stop calling him "Albert" lmao. I hate to be that person but it's Albrecht :P Anyways, the Drifter isn't imprisoned in 1999. But we do have a bond to it to the point where we keep returning. Then secondly and maybe most importantly, who can guarantee that we ever saw the real Albrecht during the quest? And let's be honest, healing anything shouldn't be hard for anyone of his caliber. He is Orokin after all. I do however have nothing against your assumption regarding the poison sentence.
@@TarotKeichii Now that is very interesting. I still don't understand what the indifference or the doctor is trying to change in the past. However keeping the drifter in a non stop loop for distraction in the present makes sense to me.
@@TarotKeichii i do think alot of this is true, but with one massive addition / crackpot theory: the void albrecht AND tenno dopplerganger are both different "branches" of the void, the that copied your appearance and is perhaps true to what the void wants (revenge / death to entrati, hence giving us powers) and entati doplleganger, trying to find a way to weaken the void / manipulate to being more malleable perhaps? cause (irrc) whenever wally is manipulating us to poisoning the void emotionally, its entrati. but whenever they are less getting us to do it but more accurately perhaps falling for the plan and getting emotional themselves, they are tenno doppelganger. Tldr I wonder if theres a section of the void that after copying entrati as the first being it ever met, also copied his dubious orokin goals OR maybe even it was always the void doppelganger entrati that escaped and the real one slowly overtime is trying to mainuplate reality in order to... use void powers for orikin reasons idk
@@fantomx Yes, being in love with a Hex member or even having a familiar bond to them all would be the poison that keep us in the bubble of 1999. It proves our drifter is not indifferent. Didn't we all feel right at home in the backroom, and for the first time in the game it FELT alive somehow? Why would my drifter want to leave that? Leave it for what? The next world Dr. E creates? What is my bond to the Hex? Is it me being in love or is it Dr. E controlling me towards his end goals? I think Dr. E wants to controll us, not just the drifter, us, the player. The holy ghost of our trinity.
@@fantomxI've been thinking about it a lot after the quest. And I have two theories about what purpose of the time loop might be in terms of after the Indifference arrives and starts making changes. One) the indifference is using it as a way to keep the Drifter out of the Origin System. Either permanently or temporary while it enacts it's plan. Or 2) it is trying to condition the Drifter to have the same mindset as the Operator. One of the on going themes I've noticed with the Indifference is that it keeps trying to fuel the Operator with hate for the Orokin. Even our first meeting as the player is at the end of the War Within. With one of the dialogues it gives us being "you angry kiddo?" As if it's making sure we are still against the Orokin. Additionally a lot of the dialogue involving the Orokin during the KiM messages are aimed towards trying to convince the Drifter to show anger towards the Orokin and Entrati. Something I thought about when I was trying to go to sleep last night.
31:00 IMO it's the Drifter in the Vessel for the simple detail it has no black eyes, as seen with Vessels controlled by the Indifference in WITW, having black eyes in the quest.
Both that, and usually when the indifference takes over, the thing's facial features get all exaggerated, but with the vessel we see a slight smirk, which I am pretty sure the wally would be unable to do because he's goofy like that
@@nuker6724 Or, and I could be reaching like Mr. Fantastic here, it was the Indiference simply saying: "I managed to learn something new from that little experiment. I have evolved now."
The true galaxy brain take: DsIEGE has been visited by/influenced by the man in the wall irl and the videos you make are meant to increase our emotional investment in the game, thus giving wally more fuel and keeping the player in the loop of continuing to log in LOL, great video as always!
Man, after watching this my head has been buzzing, what a fantastic look at this quest and the story of Warframe in general. After watching this and going back to the Backrooms, where Aoi was standing around, I got a few lines back to back from her, most of which amounted to “this place is great - I love it here, and so should you. Don’t you want to stay forever?” And I’m thinking this whole time, holy shit, this entire place is a total honey trap for the drifter! Someone who’s been alone and tormented for centuries, maybe millennia, now has an eternal 90s pizza party at the mall, surrounded by sexy singles of every variety for them to befriend and date and stay with forever, and ever, and ever. If the Indifference made this space to keep the drifter off of the board (as a “paradox” it can’t touch or mess with) that would completely align thematically with what we’ve gotten here. On top of that, it made me think about the look we got at Arthur and Aoi in Whispers - in that version of Dec 31, it feels like the scenario is different. Aoi refers to “this doctor Entrati bastard” as though she’s never heard of him before, though in OUR hollvania he’s a major celebrity. In the atomicycle trailer Aoi claims shed never go to a party, though OUR version of Aoi is a total party hound. Are all of the Hex facsimiles made to appeal to the drifter and keep them trapped in the loop??? I can’t wait for what’s coming next.
Literally a minute ago in the backroom Eleanor said "We live in a parenthesis. Swimming around like goldfish in a great big bubble of Void" and I remembered listening to this earlier today and almost screamed
One that that bares mentioning with all this, including with Parvos' emphasis as of late, including the search for some of Entrati's research, is remember that we dug him out of his own void constructed reality, left to a constant loop.
Hölvania 1999 being a conceptually embodied space would explain the Drifter being able to exercise his authority over the strands of Khra that would only normally be possible in Duviri.
@@sublimestyle21 it also offers an explanation for how the Protoframes and the Drifter's Warframes can use their Void powers without the Heart of Deimos.
remember when Loid said the labs security couldn't tell Wally Albrecht apart? This quest, and the idea that we never know if we're talking to Wally or Albrecht made me think. What if, now, there is no difference? Duality is a major theme in Warframe. Characters are often of two halves, with the exception being the Lotus who is a trifecta. So what if Albrecht and Wally, after all this time, have become one in a sense? Much like how Rusalka was both herself, and Wally. When were talking to one, we're talking to both. The distinction blurred, explaining Albrecht's sometimes strange behavior. I do also want to say, i don't think 1999 is conceptually embodied. Albrecht says that if we stop the bomb we "loose this world and its possibilities." To me meaning that if 1999 is devoured into nothingness, all possible futures from it cease to be. I think instead, this is a parallel reality. instead of going to the past of the our primary reality, Albrecht instead went to a separate reality and its past. My guess is that he was seeking certain conditions and or people that may not exist in the primary reality. Things he'd need for his plan.
@@Paradox1012 Yeah I have like a mixture of dread and ecxitement in me to see if anything big story wise is going to be revealed. I can take on some liches, but if any of the Hex are killed or turned in some way im gonna ball my eyes out.
@@annekristiina7503. But aren’t they fully corrupted or infested, eventually, anyways? I mean the end for them is a total loss right? Otherwise their Warframe wouldn’t exist. I’m just rambling tho, just spitballing here.
@@Cyberhawkzz Sigh, yes, you are right. I just want to hide away in Duviri with my love and never return to the origin system to avoid the inevitable. Linear time is already broken anyway.
Apologies, this might end up a wall of text. But your comment here is a thought that struck me during 1999 and may as well just add to this chain of discussion. Given that Reb has.... let's put it as a serious case of Stan-itis, for Emet-Selch, I feel it's probably not far fetched to say it's influencing some of the themes being used for Entrati. I've brought it up before, and I still feel like it's heavily there. And I do not mean this in any negative way. This archetype of villain is absolutely one of my favorite. I'm fine with it. The more Albrecht/Solas/Emets we have the better off I am. I bore easily of the mustache-twirling evil for the evil types. But to my point: I don't want to casually spoil anything so if you're a sprout on FF14, just please look away and enjoy the game at your pace. All the little sprouts gone now? Okay. Exact same nonsense. Hung up on a dead people, a dead world, and all their dead dreams. Millennia of carrying 'the burden' and working on plans to fix it. He tries to get the Warrior of Light (player character) on his side. Follows the party around off and on for the expansion being both a thorn in your side, and sometimes funny. (He at least has more charisma than stodgy old Albrecht, lol) Slips up and even addresses you as one of his people (uses 'we' instead of I in a dialogue in Kholusia near the end). This was an early hint to your character's nature, but that's really not relevant to this comment. Turns out he wanted to drag you into his plan, willingly if possible, or as a weapon, essentially, if not. But you 'failed' him at the end so he just gives up the pretense and you fight it out. Not that it's a plan you ever would have gone along with, as it required killing everyone and everything to bring back the world he thinks he has to save. And you couldn't even do the 'weapon' bit right. Weak. Expendable. Non-entity. So here we have Albrecht, a genius man, who opened Pandora's Box and couldn't close it right again and in a long chain reaction, set off the death of his people and all they worked for. He is now absolutely obsessed with fixing it. At any and all cost. He's said that; he's never denied it. It's a cold calculation he's made and is fine with. Oh, he went on about being bothered by it in 1999, but I don't think anyone buys that. Maybe try being less 'detached' like some knock-off Jedi, Entrati, and we might believe you still have feelings or a soul in there. And I think in a way, some of what he says is actually trying to help you, but only up to where helping you keeps within the confines of his plan. You go too far off script to where he can't correct for it and coerce you and he's probably just going to outright turn on you. And he'll be all 'oh no, another tragic sacrifice.' or something in a voice note while reality burns. (Or turns to kinda ugly rocks. The Murmur seem to like everything being rocks and sand.) The minute he mentioned Tau I was like 'Seriously? That nonsense again?' Tau, Tau, Tau. Ya'll gotta give that up. Everytime ya'll tried to get there something awful happened. Zariman/Sentient War. Ballas' nonsense that led to the mess we are in *right now*. Take a hint.
I'm absolutely of the opinion the Man in the Wall is not the true enemy here. Albrecht remains an Orokin, he only gave up on the continuity due to a fear of the Man that he couldn't shake, and ever since then he's been desperately trying to save his own skin the only way the Orokin ever teach: detachment. As Albrecht sees we are in a similar situation to himself, he's trying to get us to be more like him. Us Tenno use a different path however, the one shown in the Sacrifice, three different flavors of accepting and integrating those emotions into who we are Likely, the MITW will use our emotions to torment us as long as we exist, because the Indifference only approves of those who become like him. Remember, even the security systems in Albrecht's own lab started being unable to tell him and the MITW apart. We're not meant to be able to tell one from the other, they've essentially become the same indifference
I think that's just your classism showing. The Entire Entrati family are Orokin and they've become some of our best allies. I think that too many people look at Ballas as what an orokin "has to be" rather then an example of a "how bad orokon can get".
@@vladyvhv9579 One only becomes Orokin by literally stealing the lives and bodies of people they consider beneath them. The Entrati used us to repair the thing that gives them their power in a post-Orokin world, then continued to bicker amongst themselves until stepped in to fix their shit. Even Albrecht is barely different, discarding Loid to save himself in 1999 Our greatest allies are Loid and Necraloid, two people the Entrati consider slaves Don't be fooled, they consider us to be THEIR ayatan. They appreciate our presence, but think they own us
Albrecht Entrati could be an enemy, but he seems to try to apply logic and cold judgement instead of swaying into the emotions which makes the Indifference really pissed. That being said, the Indifference is stupidly clever, as it has seemingly weaponized the doubt that the Drifter has shown against the Ablrecht and amplify into strong emotions as... Means to keep the Drifter in the new loop of the Warframe 1999 (instead of Duviri)
Hey, remember when everyone thought that we're going back in time and the timeline was going to be changed by someone? Remember that Zariman tablet from Duviri? "What is the core thesis of The Palimpsest of Spacetime? Events can be rewritten; traces of the original persist" What if that works with the loops too? But i'm not sure how exactly it could be applied to the current thing we got. I just remembered this detail and thought it might be interesting to hold in mind. What do you think?
Entrati was able to visit Duviri, right? Makes sense The Drifter could end up in Entrati's iteration. Both are described as safe havens from the The Indiffwrence. Both also end up having a part of them destroyed (an island and a city) to tackle The Indifference's encroachment. Great video!
One parallel that i'm not sure anyone has discussed is the similarity between some events in Warframe's story and The Neverending Story. "The Great Nothing" = "The Indifference", the empress's name = choosing a name for lotus, saving the hex from the swamp of saddness. Would be interested to hear other similarities to other films and media that inspiration may have come from.
oh damn. im both thrilled and scared. the end of the last video actually gave me pause to ask myself if i wanted to have this theory in my brain. knowing full well that i might not be able to "unsee" it edit: i watched it. it was worth it, at least for me. it was not outside my own predictions. but actually detailed, thought out, cited, and a whole lot *more* than anything i've come up with on my own.
At 3am? Well it seems like I have to wait 2 hours and 33 minutes. I've got no notification, I just looked you up as I was watching other ppl playing Warframe, I seriously hate this platform sometimes
I'm sorry... I had many thoughts on what I should do, release it right away, premier it... premier it right away... The editing issues I had with it broke my brain, I apologize...
@TheDsIEGE DON'T WORRY ABOUT THAT, plus we literally live in 2 different continents, I'm in Europe, in Italy. So timezones will do their trick, as I can see it will be 9pm for some ppl so don't sweat it! I'm just hyped to watch the video Siege. The only thing actually bothering me is youtube not sending me notifications, it should have gave one 5 minutes ago as I put the notifications on for this premiere
One thing that I have not heard anyone talk about is the backroom. Everyone just accepts it for the story but if you read the Duviri lore it talks about the stranger who came from outside and built a replica of his lab, one filled with Orokin tech that a Tenno would need. That same island disappeared from Duviri and I think that is the backroom, meaning Entrati or the Indifference prepared for us coming to 1999
1999 being a void construct was what i believed since the start. That kind of means the Drifter is also this (along with the hex). Just like the Zeriman, just like duviri. The idea that we are part of the tenno trinity is an awesome theory. And the idea of logic vs emotion with albrich and wally is also very interesting. Though... Curiously what would his trinity be? His third self? (Maybe its Digital extremes themselves? ) And when you think about the trinity... What is that third? If we look to our "choices" meter-- emotion logic (sun / moon) the middle choice is.... What? Indifference? Balance? (Im inclined to think balance) The lotus is a balance -- equal parts the logic and furocity of natah, and the emption and care of margulus. We, as the tenno's third, we are a balance. The one ultimatily making the choices. (Does that mean DE is Dr. Entrati's third? The balance of the two?) Finally i want to discuss the idea of the sun and the moon. The obvious parrelel. But... What is their trinity? Is it... The void? The blackened stars? The scaldra have an interesting symbol for their faction btw. Half a sun, half a moon. Though... Neither conjoined qt the center. Rather the halfs are seperate. Never meeting in equality. Makes me wonder what the meaning behind this could be~
The scaldra logo also looks like the scrawlings on the Zariman that show two Zarimans punching through each other during the jump, but with a sun Zariman and a moon Zariman 👀
I think i have to rewatch this 2take Video.. like atleast 5-10 more times to wrap my Head around all key points you'd make. Such a genius take. Brilliant as per Usual
Höllvania 1999 feels like it's all an experiment. Both Albrecht and Wally take turns in their chess game where they alter the game to see how we would react, both of them have a different hypothesis. The rational and the emotional.
At 1:51 He starts talking. Big spoiler warning. At 3:52 Starts a clip of a mix of an assortment of DE promotional clips. For atmosphere. At 5:13 Start talking again, Telling us that there was a hidden website puzzle DE released before 1999. At 7:22 Starts talking about the content in those puzzles. First group of messages. At 11:33 Second group of messages. At 15:03 The Hex Comic At 16:09 The Nokia-phone reveal At 20:52 The DNA sequences puzzle At 21:45 More promotional material distributed after solving all puzzles. =========> until this point he only retells stuff we've seen without conjecture. From this point own there are theories are presented. The theories have nothing to do with anything presented up to this point.
Thank you!!! I enjoyed writing the script for this one but the editing made me really dislike it so you saying that... well it's bringing a positive feeling back now!!!
Interesting ideas. While I think you've been dipping into Lettie's med stash in a few places, I can't deny that a lot of these have merit. ----I don't necessarily believe that the ARG elements are _completely_ Canon to the story, as they have zero in-game preservation (as opposed to past Limited Time Events, whose effects can still be felt to this day). They may have happened off-screen in some way, but I am always going to champion in-game evidence over clever marketing tactics. However, I would say that I do agree that Wally is aware of a third element within Mara Lohk. Whether this is us the players (as the implication seems to be), the remnants of who each Warframe used to be (similarly to Umbra, Jade, & Stalker), or some as-of-yet completely unknown element (A version of Mara Lohk that didn't get chosen for the Zariman or was able to reach Tau?) remains to be seen. ----Assuming, for a moment, that the ARGs _are_ 100% as-seen in real life Canon to the story of the game, this ARG reveals that Wally is manipulating us. The players. So by participating in the ARGs, we aid Wally. Who is, as of yet, the enemy of our characters. If that is indeed true, then DE can never use ARGs again, or at least not in this manner. Because of the ARGs are Canon, and are aiding Wally, then all we have to do is stop playing, and we win. Not really the best thing for DE to do, considering they _need_ the interaction to hype new updates. ----Regarding the "Hex Origin Comic", I would say that Entrati's telling of events could very well be exactly what we're looking at here. Remember, Entrati's perception is skewed by his Orokin upbringing. ----The idea that Hollvania is a new Void Pocket akin to Duviri, rather than being the actual past, is an interesting idea. It would also explain just how the hell Drifter is able to "rewind time". If this is just another defined piece of The Void, it would make sense that Drifter's "Reset" power could work here. It even uses the same spiral effect (though, full disclosure, I think that's more likely to be just simple asset reuse instead of anything significant). And, though it's just a small asset, this _would_ explain why the POM-2's wallpaper uses the Joy Spiral skybox from Duviri (other than the obvious Windows XP reference). And, on a more serious note, it would explain how The Drifter seems to get the perfect reactions to everything he says over the KIM chats. Real people are unpredictable. Even those who you've formed a bond with may not want to discuss past traumas or interact off the battlefield. Yet Drifter seems to get the exact right response every time he makes a dialogue decision. It may very well be that the Hex are Conceptual Embodiments of people that Entrati met in the actual 1999, or are the people that went into making the original Warframes brought to a second mock life via the trace elements left of those people in the Helminth sub-strains; just reformatted to fit in the 1999 illusion. But now I'm starting to stretch. ----The idea that Dominus Thrax is specifically Drifter's "Other" would initially make sense. A copy made when The Drifter was still a scared, lost child, modeled after the main character of Drifter's childhood storybook; who was written as a self-insert. It would also help explain why only The Operator has a doppelganger. However, I think this is a Red Herring. We know from the KIM chats that the entirety of Duviri is made from Drifter's loneliness and intense desire from companionship and distractions from his pain. Think about the ending of the Duviri Paradox quest, how Thrax reacted when confronted by The Drifter. If that was Wally, he wouldn't have acted that way (plus, we already have an analogue to Wally in the form of the laughing man). ----I think that, when the time comes, we _will_ have to forge our own path. As both The Operator and The Drifter, we've always been following someone else's instructions. Lotus, Teshin, the various Syndicates, Entrati, possibly even Wally at some point or another. So forging that third path, the balanced pragmatic path between emotional extreme and cold logic, will very likely be a part of the endgame of Warframe (or at least this arc).
Ok the idea that 1999 is conceptually embodied makes so much sense, I really like that theory and would explain how the drifter’s power works there. Entrati went to Duviri so perhaps he enjoyed the company of said denizens and figured the best way to grow the drifter’s heart in order to control the vessels was to create them himself
Or the indifference just found a way to bring the drifter back into his golden cage. I mean it nearly won in the new war. No tenno, nearly everyone veiled and therefore indifferent to their universe around them, just so that the drifter, breaking free of duviri, came into the game to bring it all down. Now we have a new conceptual embodiment with people who the drifter can connect with, who he can love. Who he doesn't want to leave behind. The perfect prison.
Dude your series is so good! Fills in so many gaps. As much as I try and keep up with the lore I still miss things and you've helped get me up to date and see things I've missed. Thank you!
37:17 Basically Elsa. "Conceal, don't feel. Don't let 'them' know." Whispers In The Walls mention that the Indifference has been trapped in the "Strands of Khra (Time) ", and as such, this "1999" is essentially a "conceptually-embodied timeline".
If you look at only the two clear paths as unassociated, you miss the grass path. Compile from both to reach another end. Link the dots. 1999 happens before "us". A trap can/cannot work on one who is/is not. An unplanned variable will always escape the loop. Infinity cannot be contained in 1. The finite do not exist to a 0. ... Look for the intersection between the lenses. Red and blue create purple. If you can create a parallel, your final possible answer has not been found. An experiment becomes an independent force when one stops observing or can not observe/does not want to observe. An absolute has no need for subtlety. It is. Perfection does not have imperfections. If it can fail, it is not. An individual, whatever they may be, is not limited to anything but their abilities and willingness. Control is never absolute. And a puzzle cannot be solved without all of its pieces present. * Have you covered every base? ... But in the end, what you believe is up to you.
I think you're way off with the idea that 1999 is a pocket dimension. It's definitely actual time travel if you ask me. It's muddy because of how vague they tend to be with their worldbuilding, but I think you're assuming you're seeing Conceptual Embodiment when in reality it's a different perspective on Eternalism at play. Just an entire year of events instead of one decision is being rewritten, and we aren't sitting on the other side looking at the different results, we're in the middle actively participating in the constant rewrites.
Bloody hell you made me realize the piece i was missing the whole time. There are some chat messages with Elanor that should be impossible, she not only saw the wall itself but somehow the hex and you have the access. Now if it was 1999 this would be impossible, as stated in the chat itself, cuz there isn't a heart of deimos in this time yet, which would coat the system in void energy. But if this is the void it makes all of it possible. My mind is blown man.
Ok, gotta put this thought somewhere, here's what's on my mind: Got to see a new tenno play the chains of harrow and my thought is, we still don't exactly know for how long Rell had contact with the indifference, my thoughts are, Tell was autistic, perceiving emotions was challenging for him, and since the indifference seems to mimic those it interacts with, could Tell be the first it talked to and, after mimicking him, had the same problem dealing and identifying emotions and that's why we're where we are??? 👀👀
@annekristiina7503 but it does make sense doesn't it?? Ever since the Duviri Paradox, past, present and future are not linear, and with the thought of Eternalism they speak of, it's supposed to be "every possibility passed, present and to be is accessible at any given time if you know how and have the means to do it", and since Wally is basically "The Master of the Strands of Krha" (fancy way to say he has power of the flow of time 😂😂) it's not far fetched that, to him, the encounter with Rell happened before the one with Albrecht even if the main storyline has it otherwise 👀😂
So I just had a bit of a brainwave while reading through the comments. Someone pointed out that Albrecht is uninjured at the end of the Hex quest, and that that implies that it was The Man In The Wall . It got me thinking what is his play here? What is he after? The general feel I've gotten from the interactions with him is that he is, at most, annoyed with the Operator/Drifter for getting in his way, but doesn't hate them. And his conversation as the Indifference during the Hex quest He tells us that we're not like the Orokin who he calls _butchers_ We were _given_ power freely. Now if it was indeed The Man In The Wall who was speaking in the end, If it really was him who wanted us to grow our hearts to save the Hex, what is his real goal? Well, what is the Tenno's _real_ power? What makes them special? It's not their Void Devilry, no, it's their ability to see inside _ugly broken things and take away their pain_ . And _that_ I think, is what The Man In The Wall's plan is. To have us take away his pain, the pain of being butchered for power by the Orokin.
I think a lot of the stuff here has definitely given a lot of context behind Warframe 1999 events. Like how the Tenno/Drifters having a part of Wallie could explain how Wallie got access to 1999 in the first place. The thing I think differently on is that Albrect is pushing for detachment or cold logic in the Drifter. In the first ending (bad) he gave the Drifter the cryptic hint of "Not unless you know them". A means to save the Hex. And this is reinforced by his dialogue when saving all the Hex. "Your heart would struggle to move them" "It had to grow" "Carry this power with mercy..." Was it a logical decision to nudge the Drifter in a certain direction? Most likely. But I don't think Albrecht wants us to be cold and indifferent. After all love is the poison to Wallie's plans. We've seen it in Whispers In The Walls and Wallie even sneered and was angry when Albreact brought it up.
Haven't made it to the Hex quest in game, so I will refrain from watching for now, just know that I appreciate your work, your explanation of deeper symbolism is unmatched. Keep up the great work brother!
Great video, however, I think there are some points I would like to add. First is Eternalism. We know that every time exists as equally as any other, may it be pas, present, future or alternate realities. In this case, there may be a reality where the Drifter chose to follow Albrecht and doomed the Hex and Höllvania. I say "may" because the Operator and the Drifter are really special entities, they / we are the main protagonist of the story, we are not like everyone. We might be a singularity among Eternalism, one special thing. One point I disagree is to consider "the other" referencing Dominus Thrax. Thrax was not created by the Drifter, it was Euleria Entrati whom wrote the Tales of Duviri, the Drifter only made it real through Conceptual Embodiment. The Drifter and Thrax were only friends, Thrax is not another version of the Drifter or something like that. "The other" is either the Operator, which is highly likely or it is the Operator's Doppelgänger, less likely but still another possibility. The "impossible images" are just DE using already existing images, creating specific images only for the ARG when there is a substitute is not really worth it. Lore-wise it can be explained by being similar images. I don't think focusing on that is really important. I can still be wrong but it is not a big deal and in that case it only bring more proofs linking toward the importance of our reality in the Warframe story. Another thing that came to my mind is the parallel between the Void and the Warframe Universe. This came to me while watching 2 shows. The first is Dragon Ball Daima, where it is stated that at the beginning only the Demon Realm existed and that the ruler of this Realm decided to expand it by creating multiple universes. The second is Yu-Gi-Oh! ZEXAL where there exists 3 worlds : the Astral World, the Barian World and the Universe. At the beginning, the Astral World and the Barian World were only one world called the Astral World but it decided to reject Chaos and thus "purified" the Astral World and creating the Barian World. Something similar could have happend in Warframe as the Void (or the Indifference), decided to create the Warframe Universe by rejecting everything else but the Void outside. We are on my personal theories, I'm going really far with that, I don't expect it to be true, just some crazy theories from my own. I just think it can fit well for Warframe. Something that was not mentionned (but it may be stuff for another video) is the link between Sentients and Popol Vuh, a text from Mayan mythology. With a conversation with Lettie, we know that some phrases used by the Sentients are EXACTLY THE SAME as some used in Popol Vuh. This is something pointed out by the player "Nikodemos" back in 2015 on Warframe Forums. The mysterious message we have at the end of the Stolen Dream Quest is "ALL IS SILENT AND CALM, HUSHED AND EMPTY IS THE WOMB OF THE SKY". This message can be found in this book at page 56. Another "MERELY FRAMED, MERELY SHAPED THEY ARE CALLED. THERE WAS NO THEIR MOTHER, THERE WAS NO THEIR FATHER" from the Lancer Synthesis Scan is also found in the book and is the one written by the Drifter in the Lettie conversation. Her mind blew up learning that and it raises a lot of questions regarding the Sentients. At first glance, it can only be some kind of reference to Popol Vuh but now that we know that this thing exists in the 1999 Universe and that Lettie is aware of that, there is something to dig. Lettie was maybe using Xipe Totec as some kind of reference for the Indifference but she might have found something very very interesting. This single information may be enough to create a 3rd interpretation (the Green Pill) of 1999 and the Warframe Universe. I will state the questions we still need awnsers (don't hesitate to anwser with questions I may have forgotten) : - What was the second part of the deal with The Indifference ? - Same with the supposed deal between The Lotus and The Indifference. - What is the goal of the Indifference ? Chaos ? - What is Albrecht's plan ? Why Tau ? How does he fight the Indifference ? - Is it really Albrecht ? Is he really fighting the Indifference ? - What really is Höllvania ? Is it created by Albrecht ? The Indifference ? Something else ? - How can Digital Extremes and a variation of Dark Sector exists in 1999 Höllvania ? Is the Indifference and/or Albrecht aware of our reality ? How can Amir reccreate the game "Warframe" inside of Warframe ? Is our reality just a game in another Warframe universe ? - How can 1999 Höllvania interfere with our reality with the Technocyte Coda ? - Why are the Sentients quoting Mayan texts ? - How important is our reality regarding the events in Warframe ? - Who can be trusted ? The Warframe Team is really cooking something. I'm sure 2025 will be a crazy year for Warframe.
So far the Indifference/the Man in the Wall has to be one of the most powerful and clever villain in literature making it extremely intimidating. I have to admit with how cleverly it hides in plain sight, manipulates the behaviour, and obscures clear judgement it makes itself an existential Threat with capital bold *T*. Even when it has seemed to be cornered by the Entrati and the Drifter it has immediately seized the opportunity to literally weaponize the doubt that the Drifter has towards the Albrecht (since he is Orokin, after Ballass better not to trust Orokin) amplifying the doubt into strong emotions. Speak of the devil... I think the 1999 has been turned into a new prison for the Drifter that does not look like one. For context, when the Albrecht says that the Drifter is more childish than the Operator he could mean emotional development. The Drifter refuses to follow the command to just shoot "it", when the Drifter has already killed 1000+ SCALDRA troops. This doubt is weaponized by the Indifference, to provoke strong emotions in the Drifter, and let the Drifter create their's own perfect prison for themselves. As they would rather *live in their's dream* rather than face the cold reality, and live in a constant loop with the friends.
By the throne, do i love the unending ever changing paths of the warframe story , answering questions with more questions yet giving supposed answers that are meant to be vague , very ... very ... passionate
oh man, Ive been so excited for this since the first one came out. So excited to see this! Thanks so much for all of the theorizing you dive into, its amazing fun to hear someone elses thoughts on this, especially with the caliber of your writing
This also answers the question that i had while playing 1999, why is Hollvania isn't an open world. Why is it a tileset? It makes sense for normal planets to be tilesets, as it can be different ships or bases that we infiltrate/assault, and Entrary's Labs are constantly changing, so them being a tileset also makes sense, but why would Hollvania, a supposedly actual, "real" city be a tileset? You could argue it being different parts of the city, but if that is the case, why our entrance to the tileset is. Always. The same. Same crossroads with Scaldra APCs, with an On-Lyne ball to the left. It could be wavered off as a simple gameplay mechanic, but with the idea that 1999 isn't an actual time and place, but a Void construct? It would make perfect sense why Hollvania is a tileset and not an open world.
I think that the indifference can’t comprehend love. He has never encountered or met someone who has shown love to it. If I’m not mistaken, the indifference is based on Entrati’s first encounter with it. I think the indifference exit is on to show negative emotions. I think that’s why the indifference is interested in the Tenno , because he’s never taken from it. I do think love is the answer.
Yes that's what I thought he has only seen "evil" from the other side its like a Lion hunting a rabbit and it runs but the lion might possibly just want a friend and is confused when the rabbit runs and then hurts it (cuts down his finger) and then he gets sealed by Rell inside a Warframe for ALOT of time the only appreciation he has been shown is by Baroo and the Operator hence why baroo has never been hurt in the void hunts or by TMITW it might possibly want love from the other side but thr other side doesn't know because they're like the rabbit to the lion trust
Still, isnt albretch also trying to fool us? If love and hate are weapons agaisnt the indiference, his being so cavalier in pushing us to kill couldnt be an attempt to create both? Love for the hex and hate for him?
Yes, but... I think he's trying to use us to further his goals. In my opinion, he didn't want us to make the emotional connection in the first place. We... weren't supposed to become friends, you know? without that attachment, their deaths wouldn't matter aside from a very general desire to not kill people per se. The relationships... changed the game.
I think he was testing us, continuously. Wally was watching, he didn't have the leeway to give us any more hints. An Orokin will be an Orokin, They never seem to be straightforward. He does not deserve our mercy, he is there to use us, but he is not inherently against us. We are merely an instrument in their war, Orokin and the Void incarnate
There is a profound Problem. The first Cycle came to the End. Albrecht saught in the Beginning. If we or the Drifter where there or not. Had no impact on the Outcome. By the Drifters work to safe the Hex (unwillig Creations of the Void, that like all Other Creations like Duviri, Zariman Crew, was not cared for by the Void) anchored Höllvania. As a parallel Dimension. Different in Time as well as Space. The Void seeking to devour all, in Order to begin anew. Makes me think that the Void is strained by anchored parallel Dimensions. Needing more and more Focus over greater Spaces or is geeting overfeed but is more compartmented to these "New Toys". Leaving an exploitable Opening elsewhere. Left to be identified.
Holovania being a conceptual embodiment would explain a lot of gameplay mechanics that break the lore. How are we able to use Air Support if our ship isn't in 1999, let alone summon Khal or our On-Call Crew? Why do artifacts from the origin system, like Ayatan Sculptures, show up sometimes in 1999? How are the Acolytes showing up in Steel Path? And the Atomicycle... something we gained in 1999 and hypothetically don't have a way to take back to the future... we just happen to be able to use it anywhere now... Itsnotabug 🐛
There’s a few things that I would like to add to this because it adds to the proof that Wally is behind everything that happens after he takes you to the zariman 1. Wally blatantly lies when he says he gave his powers to you “freely” the deal was (or is most likely to be) the Tennos “light” for the void powers. A lot of people assume that you got void powers and Wally got your “light” in an indirect way by killing all of your other selves except 2 (drifter and Tenno) and then got the players “light” by taking away Drifters emotional stability by trapping him in duviri where he became detached from emotion. I believe that this isn’t the light that Wally was referring to and instead is the Tenno/Drifters ability to connect to people. As we see in the zariman room where the deal occurred, even as a child the Tenno/Drifter were natural leaders and took care of the other children (except Rell). I believe wally is going to use this power that we have to connect to more people in order to manifest himself fully in our dimension. Wally operates very similar to classic devils and demons in that he does not directly harm people but instead makes deals with others that eventually backfire on them. We know he made deals with those who speak void tongue (Dante, Parvos, likely made a deal with the animals Loid takes care of as well) and now through this deal for T/D’s light he his able to connect to everyone that T/D connect to. 2. As mentioned in other comments if Love is Wally’s weakness, then why did he laugh in the cutscene where you refuse Albrecht idea of killing Wally and letting the bomb happen due to your care for the hex? Why does Wally continue to almost egg the drifter on by antagonizing him with the death of his comrades? Why did albrecht go from beaten and bruised to completely healed after Wally took you to Zariman? And most notably WHY DID ALBRECHTS VOICE HAVE THE VOID GROWL THAT WALLY ALWAYS HAS when speaking to you during the ending about the importance of love. Albrecht wants you to detach yourself emotionally. Wally wants you to make connections that he can use against you later in order to manifest himself. These are the two sides of the coin mentioned at the end of the video. The 3rd option would be for the T/D to actually use these connections to fight back against Wally through genuine caring and relationships. This would still follow Albrechts theory that love is Wally’s poison as well as Wally just wants to use these connections as a way to gain power instead of actual relationships with people
1- you did a phenomenal job breaking things down further. I knew a lot about this already but not the stuff involving Twitter. 2- As per what you and I had talked about last year- months ago- I used part of your previous video to link God into the picture with the emphasis being on “Love”. Sacrifice is a minor theme here that may play a bigger part that could tie into the 3rd option…. Or if any secret options…. Which I suspect do exist. 3- I’ll be using the whole message Entrati says (around the 17min mark) as my new phone recorded message to mess with others who call the number…. And because the ending “hang…. It…. Up” is a double conundrum for hanging up the phone. 4- I know something relevant is outside of the safe room but what, idk yet. The symbols on the wall around the mirror/ doorway also suggest more but that’s probably simple- the man in the wall wanting more access. 5- I’ve got to recheck some of those areas mentioned because I’m genuinely curious in what else was- is left behind. 6- You explaining more about how Duiviri and Thrax fits in wasn’t something I realized before…. So ty. That was new and very appreciated. 7- DE may have dropped the ball on some areas due to issues beyond their control like running out of time- or not explaining their story well enough is something or rather some things that they’re taking time to correct and to fill out more.
Finally getting to watch this! Excellent as always!! WIth the name of the next content having been announced, I feel like the ripple we created with saving 1999 and the Hex will echo (hehe) out into the next parts of the game. Are we, the player, giving credence to Wally's emotions? There's a saying from Skeleton Key that sticks with me. "I doesn't work, if you don't believe." And with every new quest, Wally seems to gain power, sentience, and emotions the longer we spend trying to figure the Indifference out. So is Tau really the end game? Or is it something else? We end as we began? Awakening? Asleep? That is the question isn't it, kiddo? I'll end this with where it seemingly all began. Lohk. Void. From brooding gulfs are we beheld by that which bears No Name. :) When you stare into the abyss long enough, the abyss stares back. Are we really prepared to find out the Truth?
As we know the void manifests the emotional insecurities of those who com in contact with it like reverse therapy so what if the void is not conscious at all and the indifference is merely albrects fear and insecurity manifest like the drifter what if the the void is just “hell”.
the whole "we end as we began" makes me think that maybe somehow through void foolery, entrati will harness the power of the void and he'll "go back" and meet himself from the past, when he first entered the void and make it full circle somehow
A thought occurs. There is at least one closed door in the sanctum automatica that we can't access. My question (assuming the 1999 year is a self contained loop) does this door connect to that loop?
I think you're scratching at the surface of the truth, but some points are missing the forest for the trees. I fully believe that the man in the wall IS entrati. Just not OUR entrati. It's the version of him that is indifferent to others where as ours realized his mistakes with his daughter and loid and held on to his emotions. Much like how the drifter is the version of the tenno who didn't take the deal. Why else would he always take the operators form when he appears to us and never the drifter? The void is really more of a two-way mirror than a wall. It shows a reflection, but if you look at the right places or under the right conditions, you can see the other side. Also, remember that in duviri, there is a mini game where you have to move a reflection of yourself(as an operator) to find beacons/chests. Coincidence or subtle storytelling?
@TheDsIEGE Glad I could spark some interest 🙂. I would also include a chat by Eleanor where she sees and "touches" another version of herself by venturing into the void as another example. If the indifference is entrati, it would also be the entrati who never gave up the kuva, who continued his emotionless experiments to whatever ends. At some point both entratis reached into the mirror of the void and met. Whether this was the first contact ever or a carefully constructed experiment by the other is up for discussion as there are in game hints at previously occurring void encounters(per letti KIMs), but our entrati pulled back after being disgusted/fearful of what he saw. Closing the door and cutting the others digits. It also likely why we keep seeing a swing in personalities between entrati, sometimes accompanied by that signature smile. I often thought the entrati recordings always seemed off. Especially compared to when you talk to him in person in 1999. It always seemed, forced and distant. Like something was wearing an entrati suit and trying to talk like a human. Would they not also have similar references for transference much like we did with Arthur in the prequel as well as the beginnings of 1999? Because we have that commonality with Excalibur much like they would have with eachother? I'm starting to ramble but, the rabbit hole just keeps going when you talk about eternalism or mutli earth theories.
what if we are the one who will actually experience the "I have no mouth, and I must scream" eternal life? For the "greater good"? Replacing the man in the wall or join them in indifference for all eternity, thus becoming one with the void itself? What if, all this time, the indifference just wants a life partner and it is the ultimate husbando/waifu?
Omg yes! I'm totally down with this line of thinking. I remember commenting in another video a similar thought I had, pointing out that we could potentially be a third facet of the Tenno in our reality, I love to hear your thoughts on this. I guess that "third" could also be Thrax as you put it, but who's to say Thrax isn't a stand in for... the player? Anyway, If we're heading down the 4th wall breaking storytelling route, which I personally believe is exactly whats gonna happen, ooo this is gonna be so freaking good. Amazing stuff as usual Siege.
when you get the the point where you max a romance with a hex member and have one in the backrooms you can break up with them, and sometimes you can hear Wally mockingly laugh at you after. my head canon is that we're the Wally's personal soap opera now.
Fun fact for thought on the final scene with Loid. The sign the Automata flashes is actually ASL for "see you later." Taken in context with who/what's had the most interaction with that particular one, I.E. Whispers. You gotta wonder who's flashing that sign.
Yea… perhaps I shouldn’t have watched this, though I wonder did anyone else get KiM dialogue with hex members referencing a sibling?? Coz like… it’s the first I have really seen/heard about in the lore( unless I’m just ignorant to it) I mind Socratetris made a duviri vid a while back. He theorised that thrax was actually your sibling but I feel like there’s also evidence against that as well. Never the less bloody great vid man always a pleasure to watch your work unfold and inadvertently reshaping how I see hollvania and the hex.
I remember that vid and I think there is a case of Thrax both being the Drifter's sibling while also not. In one of the KiM messages I got talking about Duviri and Thrax (it might have been two conversations I would have to check) it is mentioned by the Drifter that they did have a sibling who died. Additionally the Drifter mentions creating Thrax cause they wanted a friend. (Which technically makes Thrax the Drifter's child but anyways) The appearance of Thrax was based off of the book and the figure, but it is possible that the personality of Thrax outside of the Narration (with his emotions) was based on the sibling the Drifter lost. That's how I took it anyways.
@TarotKeichii thanks for the insight and here I thought I was going insane but I would like to get more lore on this subject from DE as I believe it’s a nice bit of world building that unearths just a little more of our pre-zariman lore (Also I would personally say thrax is more of a machination than a child or atleast that’s how I like to see it but I can also see your point of view with seeing them as more of a progeny)
I still don't understand how Entrati came to Duviri, and why does he say that it's his daughter who created people there, not the Drifter. And during the Duviri quest, the Drifter originally didn't have transference or void powers, right? But got those from the Operator, also somehow? Or simply 'awoke' them, and transference sorta came by on its own?
So the way I think im seeing this, whether the man in the wall or albrecht are aware about it, the void, butchered and half baked in formation without consent, dose not nor will ever truely understand emotion like the Tenno and Drifter, still ravenously hunts through a self serving hunt of satisfaction and revenge, the worst attributes of humanity, but none of the actual quality's and complection of it, shown by how they cant even hold a single form or face. Albrecht who caused the voids awakening has some form of savior complex, revolutionizing void travel and jump starting some of the Orokins most impressive feats searchs a way to bury his love, and burning every bridge that he should hold sacred, whist still having the gaul to justify what he sees in his mind as "The end justifies the mean" and hiding away in 1999 for he is aware the void wants him, and will stop at nothing to achive its pursued goal to be whole and made anew and complete, whist unaware that albrecht is searching for the exact opposite, destroying himself if needed. This all culminates into what id believe to be the ultimate deciding factor of the end of Warframe, the morality dial, one side a blinding emotion driven wailing less of an Inferno and more akin to a tantrum throwing baby (as seen with many of the desions made in game, to the mirror of the drifter dominous thrax, Ballas, and umbra) Or a self loaving darkness unable to have the courage to put itself together, dives deeper into black waves of oblivion as a veil to hide the truth. (Examples include Nata, Hunhow and the very consept the made the lotus) The middle is control, the middle is acceptance Not to be consumed by emotion but not a deep regression and avoidance of it, but an acknowledgement you cant changes the past but still can be hopefull for the possible futures there to be, the loop is the worst of both worlds, never ending but always in flux, the solution is for the void to be forgiving, and albrechts admission of his faults. This for my perspective is how warframe ends, not at how we began, and not of who we are, but of what we want to be. The answer was given to us from the very start. (Didnt know where to put this so ill say it here the Tau system we keep hearing about my just be infact where we end, and possible the begining of soul frame? Its the next logical step and i feel as if the physical action of moving on to a new solar system, not to conquer or destroy, is the best way to represent moving away, and embracing a new and brave world) Welp, have a gn!
I don't think Albrecht has a savior complex, he was mentioned to be an underachiever, more like an ocean's worth of guilt, frantically trying to fix his one mistake while being emotionless as possible, since look what happened when his emotions met with the void. And as for Wally motivation, I personally believe it is just doing what he was made to do, Albrecht stranded in the void made him fear it, hate it since he was going to die in it, mixed with his memories rushing to him (seeing your life flash before your eyes type stuff) created a version of the void, that is actively malicious as the doctor feared, with the intelligence and, most importantly, curiosity of a scholar. There is a reason why Wally always calls someone by a nickname given to them by their parents, it holds emotional value. I see Wally as not the whole void itself, more like conceptual embodiment embodied if that makes sense, it can only work with what is given to it.
You should take a look at the first on-lyne song. A few of the lines back this theory on second listen -the signals strong you can feel it in the floor -now you can see there is no stopping me -this is just the beginning With this perspective these lines could be the indifference mocking the tenno/player especially if we are to assume this world is a construction it's not far fetched. Other lines could help symbolize the indifference's conflict with entrati.
The orokin knew of the void prior to entratis breakthrough hence why he was a pariah amoung them for his research into it. That implies that the void was well aware of the orokin at that stage and all intact, essentially all powerful but inert. Many of entrati's statements in game are quite emotional, on contact with the void entity his colder more calculating side that we later see in 1999 comes to the for as he wonders if he is still trapped in the wall. After watching this video I think not only is he trapped he may actually be wally and the entrati we see, all of them has been the indifference. It may be why wally uses 'demons' as a sort of trick that worked the first time. A body swap enabled by conceptual embodiment seeing yourself outside of yourself as the eldrich entity may make it reality in that moment and long enough for the existing entity to enter the world of dust in mortalish form. Entrati trapped as wally and missing a finger may be attempting to doublicate the trick performed on him to get him trapped, it also explains the horror aspects associated with wally as we know him. But Entrati as we know him is still an enigma, was he always wally? or was he himself tricked by something else or someone else to take their place? With the logic of eternalism the original could be literally anyone in the multiverse. My bet is captain Vor... we end as we began awaiting the baptism of his janus key lol edit: it would also explain why the climatic moment in whispers actually worked, using transference on a vessel grants the user the sensation of touch and that moment of connection with loid that the real entrati could only watch from the void as this entity operated his mortal form. It may have triggered an emotional response so great it caused what we saw. Walliti to run away crying basically.
I think the third option requires the Tenno. After all it was Rell who held the man in the wall back for so long. By the time Rell chained himself Albrecht had already begun the Kalymos sequence and went to Holvania a place the indifference could follow. But no one else seems to have come into contact with the man in the wall until we free Rell of his vigil. So our Tenno should also be capable of putting a lock on the indifference's influence. My gut also tells me this is being teased. Why does the dialogue (both in the story & hex chats) address the "child" with negative associating words or phrasing?
Hey Siege! There's something that I noticed when watching Aztecross playing the New War (Which you probably already know but I'll leave it here). Remember that scene when we shook hands with Wally? Even though he was using our body to speak with us, his hand was actually Lotus's hand, not ours. Which makes me think, was that what created the link between The Operator and Drifter? Also, could that be where she made a deal with TMITW?
I woupdnt be surprised if the indefference great plan is to prime, to groom or to prepare the tenno into bein the new man in the wall, but not in a forcefull way as the orokin once did with continuity, but a more suggestive and guidefull way, as if a teacher training the one whos gonna be the next teacher after he retires
The thing I'm still not clear about is why (narratively) 1999 needs to be a perpetual time loop. All the dialogue with the Hex means they're all very aware the time loop is indefinite but I haven't seen a good narrative explanation for why. Surely the end of The Hex quest should mean we've achieved the best outcome with both Albrect and Wally seeming to now turn their attention to other times and places (Tau apparently). Why do we need to stick around 1999 keeping it looping so?
Let's not forget what got us in 1999 in the first place. The call of the Void itself, through Entrati's pager. Also, ponder this, time and time again we've seen our doppelgänger in league with what we presume is the Void itself, either as the giant Vitruvian man or disguised as Dr. Entrati. Given what we know of Entrati through his logs or heard from others, he doesn't strike me as a man worth our trust or empathy. He's got a horrible disregard for life apart from his Kalymos (though I suspect an ulterior motive there, too). He partook in the Yuvan ceremony and sent countless beings to their deaths. He is exactly like how he describes the void to be: indifferent, apathetic, and at every turn "the indifference" seems to mirror his personality. What if our void doppelgänger is but a future version of ourselves that took Entrati's offer and now works for him
4:23 my phone started to do its own thing wtf. It made me scared. Switched to another video, wanted to share the screen with a TV and I was barely able to restart it. It will be so awesome if it starts to break down now, when I need everything on it😢
I think I'm now more interested in what lies in the void itself. What does Wally's own world have in it? We've only seen a peak of it through the Sanctum Anatomica. Could it hold some answers to our questions or a terrifying realization of what's to come?
35:36 - wait. Is the Drifter the original? And is our Tenno, which came out of nowhere (no kids apparently on the Z.Ten Zero) an...inexperienced Entity? Trying to get a grasp on choices (the quest choices) and emotions (what it lacked as a void entity)???
I watched this, went to take a dump and while sitting there I was thinking.. I believe you are onto something. Considering we are always given 3 options when having to make a choice in Warframe (Emotion, Acceptance?, Logic), The Indifference wants us to be emotional, Albrecht wants us to be logical, but what about the third choice? That may even be what you were hinting at with your last question, I shall continue to ponder. Amazing video as per usual. Thanks! Edit: Also to add onto that, "we end as we began".. Relate it to DE, how did they begin? Since we are talking Warframe here I'd say they began with Dark Sector. And at that I shall leave it to enable your own thoughts without imposing my own. I don't think it's a stretch considering that WE as the real people seem to be part of the lore. Edit2: While talking to others, saying how I love that we became/are part of the lore and how it's breaking the 4th wall.. I had a random thought. Breaking the 4th wall.. Man in the wall.. Coincidence? Why did they choose the term "wall"? Just collecting my thoughts here at this point I guess lol.
Back then in another of your video's comment, I said "introducing the third dream" since in the ARG I felt like WE as the player would become part of a trinity with the operator and the drifter. Thinking about it, the lotus now has 3 parts in herself. I am now wondering if Albrecht/wally would also have a 3rd part in them? The idea of tri-trinity with the player/lotus/indiference would be interesting for the devs to explore.
Hmmm.... You know the one thing the void has never had is love. Everyone, everything else gets this bond but not it. When we stopped the rouge construct in whispers in the walls it was a single kindness, something its never encountered. It super messed up, but based on the themes i get from watching all the old lore, Solving the puzzles in duvuri where opposites are often the solution, I wonder if that's what wally's really after... Love.
has anyone else with a alignment leaning twoards the black side had the helminth comment on the drifter saying "shadows grow within this void demon"? ive had quite a bit of light choices made and the bar is close to balanced but with a decent bit of choices the darker ones resonated more with my own decision on the matter. was wondering of the significance of the alignment and this might just be what is being alluded to
I think that what Albrecht would classify as maturity is something like commitment to a cause or resolve. He is a Machiavellian character who lives by the motto "the ends justify the means".
I see many people talking of "the ends justify the means" as some sort of evil villainous line that's clearly wrong and only designed to justify the unjustifiable. The truth is that "the ends justify the means" is an absolute truth that everyone agrees with when applied rationally. If you know with certainty the consequences of a choice, you're choosing the which end will happen.
@@projekcja It isn't an absolute truth. Morally, it is called "consequentialism" which is just a viewpoint that can be criticised. It is easier just to look at the Wikipedia entry for it, but the main problem for me is that it requires the "protagonist" to have a perfectly clear view of what will happen in the future. This can only happen in bad anime shows.
@@mattd8725 But it fits quite well in Warframe.... The Hex would be perfectly justified to kill Scaldra as they were trying to prevent a nuclear explosion! The nuclear explosion is justified if without it the techrot ends up destroying all humanity. The alternative to utilitarian ethics and consequentialism is the view that an action itself has value, regardless of its consequences. If its wrong to kill, its wrong to kill even to prevent a nuclear explosion that would kill everyone anyhow. No one actually subscribes to this straw-man ethical viewpoint.
Doctor Entrati = DE.
Illuminati confirmed!
Funny that emotion and logic is brought up in this video, because every time we have to make a choice that shifts our alignment, it's either you follow your emotions, passions and heart, you follow cold logic and pragmatism, or you find a balance and harmony between the two, and one particular logical option stood out in the war within, destroying, controlling or consuming the kuva. If you consume the Kuva, Wally asks you what took you so long. If you destroy the Kuva, Wally asks if you are angry with them, and if you decide to control the Kuva Wally will remind you that you are nothing without them. Makes me wonder what this will all culminate to down the line, because there has to be a reason we are making these choices at such key moments in game.
you're on your way to that coin's edge tenno...
Maybe Wally becomes an ally, neutral, or enemy depending on what we shoose
@@THEROOKIE6666I hope we get a chance to replay most of these choices *without* the need for making a new account if this is what happens, I'm curious how Wally would treat you as an "ally" vs enemy vs neutral.
@@TheDsIEGE 😉
Already there.
The question though is exactly what you asked.
Will we feel, will we care and do we want to try to save those we’ve come to love? ❤️
I’m going full balanced or full “save em” mode for personal reasons that I hope can be better explained one day.
By the void, how am I suppose to remember what I chose 6 years ago? This game is a mind trip and a super long burn... and it's fantastic! Somewhere at DE there is full record of where the player base leans on every choice made. Is this what Wally needs? Keeping record of us the third aspect of our trinity?
We end as we began sounds more and more a synonym for time loop
It does... doesn't it???
We still haven't gotten to the beginning of wally
@@coolgamer3646 the might not even be a begining of wally : wally just exist
Or maybe the ending of warframe, maybe we will go back to sleep at the end ,we end as we begin
@bluebutterfly6394precisely ❤
You know, there was one single detail in the Hex quest that I noticed that I don't think anyone has pointed out yet. When the Indifference takes Entrati, he is badly bruised and beaten. Yet when the countdown hits zero, not only is Entrati there in person when he shouldn't be. He is also perfectly healed.
In addition and i think this adds more to what Dsiege was saying. When Albert says "That's it isn't it. The poison to your plan.... Love" I don't think he's saying that the Indifference's weakness is love or that its the means of stopping what its planning, but that it is using love as a poison to get what it wants.
Albrecht even says that in order to save the Hex we must know them, make bonds, but it's an uninjured Albrecht Entrati who is telling us this.
Additionally when the Drifter is back on the Ten-Zero, it seems strange that Indifference would go out of its way to try and get a reaction out of us, an emotion, if 'and it be knowing' that the very emotion that it would be its weakness it's "poison" to it's plans would be formed by it egging the Drifter on.
Even the second part of the quest where you go back to save them, with their bonds now formed, the indifference still antagonizes the Drifter in a way that makes me think it wants the Drifter to keep pushing themselves to save the Hex. Something that it should have no reason to care about if it has already gotten what it wanted, Albrecht Entrati.
With all that being said, does it not make sense that the Indifference is ' poisoning' the Drifter by the means of 'love'? This was afterall the very same update that came with a romance system, a means to make the Drifter not want to leave? A new loop, a new prison based around emotions much like Duviri?
Makes me wonder and i think it, of not partly, aligns with what Dsiege is thinking.
Pretty flawed thinking imo. First of all tho, please stop calling him "Albert" lmao. I hate to be that person but it's Albrecht :P
Anyways, the Drifter isn't imprisoned in 1999. But we do have a bond to it to the point where we keep returning. Then secondly and maybe most importantly, who can guarantee that we ever saw the real Albrecht during the quest? And let's be honest, healing anything shouldn't be hard for anyone of his caliber. He is Orokin after all. I do however have nothing against your assumption regarding the poison sentence.
@@TarotKeichii Now that is very interesting. I still don't understand what the indifference or the doctor is trying to change in the past. However keeping the drifter in a non stop loop for distraction in the present makes sense to me.
@@TarotKeichii i do think alot of this is true, but with one massive addition / crackpot theory: the void albrecht AND tenno dopplerganger are both different "branches" of the void, the that copied your appearance and is perhaps true to what the void wants (revenge / death to entrati, hence giving us powers) and entati doplleganger, trying to find a way to weaken the void / manipulate to being more malleable perhaps?
cause (irrc) whenever wally is manipulating us to poisoning the void emotionally, its entrati.
but whenever they are less getting us to do it but more accurately perhaps falling for the plan and getting emotional themselves, they are tenno doppelganger.
Tldr I wonder if theres a section of the void that after copying entrati as the first being it ever met, also copied his dubious orokin goals OR maybe even it was always the void doppelganger entrati that escaped and the real one slowly overtime is trying to mainuplate reality in order to... use void powers for orikin reasons idk
@@fantomx Yes, being in love with a Hex member or even having a familiar bond to them all would be the poison that keep us in the bubble of 1999. It proves our drifter is not indifferent. Didn't we all feel right at home in the backroom, and for the first time in the game it FELT alive somehow? Why would my drifter want to leave that? Leave it for what? The next world Dr. E creates? What is my bond to the Hex? Is it me being in love or is it Dr. E controlling me towards his end goals? I think Dr. E wants to controll us, not just the drifter, us, the player. The holy ghost of our trinity.
@@fantomxI've been thinking about it a lot after the quest. And I have two theories about what purpose of the time loop might be in terms of after the Indifference arrives and starts making changes.
One) the indifference is using it as a way to keep the Drifter out of the Origin System. Either permanently or temporary while it enacts it's plan.
Or
2) it is trying to condition the Drifter to have the same mindset as the Operator.
One of the on going themes I've noticed with the Indifference is that it keeps trying to fuel the Operator with hate for the Orokin. Even our first meeting as the player is at the end of the War Within. With one of the dialogues it gives us being "you angry kiddo?" As if it's making sure we are still against the Orokin.
Additionally a lot of the dialogue involving the Orokin during the KiM messages are aimed towards trying to convince the Drifter to show anger towards the Orokin and Entrati.
Something I thought about when I was trying to go to sleep last night.
31:00 IMO it's the Drifter in the Vessel for the simple detail it has no black eyes, as seen with Vessels controlled by the Indifference in WITW, having black eyes in the quest.
Glad you too also noticed
Both that, and usually when the indifference takes over, the thing's facial features get all exaggerated, but with the vessel we see a slight smirk, which I am pretty sure the wally would be unable to do because he's goofy like that
When Rusalka was possessed she didn't have black eyes either
@@nuker6724 Or, and I could be reaching like Mr. Fantastic here, it was the Indiference simply saying: "I managed to learn something new from that little experiment. I have evolved now."
The true galaxy brain take: DsIEGE has been visited by/influenced by the man in the wall irl and the videos you make are meant to increase our emotional investment in the game, thus giving wally more fuel and keeping the player in the loop of continuing to log in LOL, great video as always!
kiddo, kiddo, kiddo... that's of course... impossible!! :)
@@TheDsIEGEI dare to say that you are infected !
My head is exploding. Excuse me while I pick up my brains from the walls....
Ooooo... just watch the walls too. They are watching after all.
@@TheDsIEGEno comment. 4th wall breakers are fun though
Same here. lol.
Man, after watching this my head has been buzzing, what a fantastic look at this quest and the story of Warframe in general.
After watching this and going back to the Backrooms, where Aoi was standing around, I got a few lines back to back from her, most of which amounted to “this place is great - I love it here, and so should you. Don’t you want to stay forever?” And I’m thinking this whole time, holy shit, this entire place is a total honey trap for the drifter! Someone who’s been alone and tormented for centuries, maybe millennia, now has an eternal 90s pizza party at the mall, surrounded by sexy singles of every variety for them to befriend and date and stay with forever, and ever, and ever. If the Indifference made this space to keep the drifter off of the board (as a “paradox” it can’t touch or mess with) that would completely align thematically with what we’ve gotten here.
On top of that, it made me think about the look we got at Arthur and Aoi in Whispers - in that version of Dec 31, it feels like the scenario is different. Aoi refers to “this doctor Entrati bastard” as though she’s never heard of him before, though in OUR hollvania he’s a major celebrity. In the atomicycle trailer Aoi claims shed never go to a party, though OUR version of Aoi is a total party hound. Are all of the Hex facsimiles made to appeal to the drifter and keep them trapped in the loop???
I can’t wait for what’s coming next.
Literally a minute ago in the backroom Eleanor said "We live in a parenthesis. Swimming around like goldfish in a great big bubble of Void" and I remembered listening to this earlier today and almost screamed
One that that bares mentioning with all this, including with Parvos' emphasis as of late, including the search for some of Entrati's research, is remember that we dug him out of his own void constructed reality, left to a constant loop.
Hölvania 1999 being a conceptually embodied space would explain the Drifter being able to exercise his authority over the strands of Khra that would only normally be possible in Duviri.
@@sublimestyle21 it also offers an explanation for how the Protoframes and the Drifter's Warframes can use their Void powers without the Heart of Deimos.
remember when Loid said the labs security couldn't tell Wally Albrecht apart? This quest, and the idea that we never know if we're talking to Wally or Albrecht made me think. What if, now, there is no difference? Duality is a major theme in Warframe. Characters are often of two halves, with the exception being the Lotus who is a trifecta.
So what if Albrecht and Wally, after all this time, have become one in a sense? Much like how Rusalka was both herself, and Wally. When were talking to one, we're talking to both. The distinction blurred, explaining Albrecht's sometimes strange behavior.
I do also want to say, i don't think 1999 is conceptually embodied. Albrecht says that if we stop the bomb we "loose this world and its possibilities." To me meaning that if 1999 is devoured into nothingness, all possible futures from it cease to be. I think instead, this is a parallel reality. instead of going to the past of the our primary reality, Albrecht instead went to a separate reality and its past. My guess is that he was seeking certain conditions and or people that may not exist in the primary reality. Things he'd need for his plan.
Is Lotus a trifecta? I'd say Lotus vs Natah is the duality, they are the same being. Marghulis is a completely separate entity.
@ the lotus has refereed to herself as such, and there have been allusions to literary archetype of the three wise women with her, a note able trio
YES! I am on time as I am playing warframe, now I can get learnt while grinding netracells!
If you head to 1999, after this... I promise it will be a whole new experience!
@@TheDsIEGE Have you perchance checked the meaning behind Albrecht Entrati's name?
@@omegablackzero what is it?
@@omegablackzero light/nobility entered?
The idea of the good ending of 1999 being just a half-existence like Duviri scares me
Yes, don't want no heart break now.
I feel like we will get an inkling on January 12th when the "New Years Kiss" and the tileset seasonal reset happens
@@Paradox1012 Yeah I have like a mixture of dread and ecxitement in me to see if anything big story wise is going to be revealed. I can take on some liches, but if any of the Hex are killed or turned in some way im gonna ball my eyes out.
@@annekristiina7503. But aren’t they fully corrupted or infested, eventually, anyways? I mean the end for them is a total loss right? Otherwise their Warframe wouldn’t exist. I’m just rambling tho, just spitballing here.
@@Cyberhawkzz Sigh, yes, you are right. I just want to hide away in Duviri with my love and never return to the origin system to avoid the inevitable. Linear time is already broken anyway.
The fight against the Indifference remains and Entrati concerns is only on the dead dreams of the Orokin.
He's... still orokin, no matter what happens, you know?
@@TheDsIEGE The Orokin is dead long time ago and he is the one responsible for their destruction.
For all of Entrati's clamors of detachment and reason, he still stumbles into the same pitfalls as his gilded siblings.
Apologies, this might end up a wall of text. But your comment here is a thought that struck me during 1999 and may as well just add to this chain of discussion.
Given that Reb has.... let's put it as a serious case of Stan-itis, for Emet-Selch, I feel it's probably not far fetched to say it's influencing some of the themes being used for Entrati. I've brought it up before, and I still feel like it's heavily there. And I do not mean this in any negative way. This archetype of villain is absolutely one of my favorite. I'm fine with it. The more Albrecht/Solas/Emets we have the better off I am. I bore easily of the mustache-twirling evil for the evil types.
But to my point:
I don't want to casually spoil anything so if you're a sprout on FF14, just please look away and enjoy the game at your pace. All the little sprouts gone now? Okay.
Exact same nonsense. Hung up on a dead people, a dead world, and all their dead dreams. Millennia of carrying 'the burden' and working on plans to fix it.
He tries to get the Warrior of Light (player character) on his side. Follows the party around off and on for the expansion being both a thorn in your side, and sometimes funny. (He at least has more charisma than stodgy old Albrecht, lol) Slips up and even addresses you as one of his people (uses 'we' instead of I in a dialogue in Kholusia near the end). This was an early hint to your character's nature, but that's really not relevant to this comment.
Turns out he wanted to drag you into his plan, willingly if possible, or as a weapon, essentially, if not. But you 'failed' him at the end so he just gives up the pretense and you fight it out. Not that it's a plan you ever would have gone along with, as it required killing everyone and everything to bring back the world he thinks he has to save. And you couldn't even do the 'weapon' bit right. Weak. Expendable. Non-entity.
So here we have Albrecht, a genius man, who opened Pandora's Box and couldn't close it right again and in a long chain reaction, set off the death of his people and all they worked for. He is now absolutely obsessed with fixing it. At any and all cost. He's said that; he's never denied it. It's a cold calculation he's made and is fine with. Oh, he went on about being bothered by it in 1999, but I don't think anyone buys that. Maybe try being less 'detached' like some knock-off Jedi, Entrati, and we might believe you still have feelings or a soul in there.
And I think in a way, some of what he says is actually trying to help you, but only up to where helping you keeps within the confines of his plan. You go too far off script to where he can't correct for it and coerce you and he's probably just going to outright turn on you. And he'll be all 'oh no, another tragic sacrifice.' or something in a voice note while reality burns. (Or turns to kinda ugly rocks. The Murmur seem to like everything being rocks and sand.)
The minute he mentioned Tau I was like 'Seriously? That nonsense again?' Tau, Tau, Tau. Ya'll gotta give that up. Everytime ya'll tried to get there something awful happened. Zariman/Sentient War. Ballas' nonsense that led to the mess we are in *right now*. Take a hint.
@eleriavelaisen another WoL, good to see you
I'm absolutely of the opinion the Man in the Wall is not the true enemy here. Albrecht remains an Orokin, he only gave up on the continuity due to a fear of the Man that he couldn't shake, and ever since then he's been desperately trying to save his own skin the only way the Orokin ever teach: detachment. As Albrecht sees we are in a similar situation to himself, he's trying to get us to be more like him.
Us Tenno use a different path however, the one shown in the Sacrifice, three different flavors of accepting and integrating those emotions into who we are
Likely, the MITW will use our emotions to torment us as long as we exist, because the Indifference only approves of those who become like him. Remember, even the security systems in Albrecht's own lab started being unable to tell him and the MITW apart. We're not meant to be able to tell one from the other, they've essentially become the same indifference
Bingo 😎
I think that's just your classism showing. The Entire Entrati family are Orokin and they've become some of our best allies. I think that too many people look at Ballas as what an orokin "has to be" rather then an example of a "how bad orokon can get".
@@vladyvhv9579 One only becomes Orokin by literally stealing the lives and bodies of people they consider beneath them. The Entrati used us to repair the thing that gives them their power in a post-Orokin world, then continued to bicker amongst themselves until stepped in to fix their shit. Even Albrecht is barely different, discarding Loid to save himself in 1999
Our greatest allies are Loid and Necraloid, two people the Entrati consider slaves
Don't be fooled, they consider us to be THEIR ayatan. They appreciate our presence, but think they own us
Albrecht Entrati could be an enemy, but he seems to try to apply logic and cold judgement instead of swaying into the emotions which makes the Indifference really pissed. That being said, the Indifference is stupidly clever, as it has seemingly weaponized the doubt that the Drifter has shown against the Ablrecht and amplify into strong emotions as... Means to keep the Drifter in the new loop of the Warframe 1999 (instead of Duviri)
@@_bustion_1928 yeah, he's given in to indifference
Hey, remember when everyone thought that we're going back in time and the timeline was going to be changed by someone? Remember that Zariman tablet from Duviri?
"What is the core thesis of The Palimpsest of Spacetime?
Events can be rewritten; traces of the original persist"
What if that works with the loops too? But i'm not sure how exactly it could be applied to the current thing we got. I just remembered this detail and thought it might be interesting to hold in mind. What do you think?
@@metalslug3fan perhaps new infested Coda will be that change while keeping original system as is
Entrati was able to visit Duviri, right? Makes sense The Drifter could end up in Entrati's iteration.
Both are described as safe havens from the The Indiffwrence.
Both also end up having a part of them destroyed (an island and a city) to tackle The Indifference's encroachment.
Great video!
“Lid less eye” that eye he’s no lid it belongs the the void
@@dark_star2497 I always think of Sauron when someone calls The Indifference the “Lidless Eye.”
“YOU CANNOT HIDE. I….SEE……YOU.”
One parallel that i'm not sure anyone has discussed is the similarity between some events in Warframe's story and The Neverending Story. "The Great Nothing" = "The Indifference", the empress's name = choosing a name for lotus, saving the hex from the swamp of saddness. Would be interested to hear other similarities to other films and media that inspiration may have come from.
oh damn. im both thrilled and scared. the end of the last video actually gave me pause to ask myself if i wanted to have this theory in my brain. knowing full well that i might not be able to "unsee" it
edit: i watched it. it was worth it, at least for me. it was not outside my own predictions. but actually detailed, thought out, cited, and a whole lot *more* than anything i've come up with on my own.
You'd be right to worry... You'll never head to hollvania in the same way again.
At 3am? Well it seems like I have to wait 2 hours and 33 minutes. I've got no notification, I just looked you up as I was watching other ppl playing Warframe, I seriously hate this platform sometimes
I'm sorry... I had many thoughts on what I should do, release it right away, premier it... premier it right away... The editing issues I had with it broke my brain, I apologize...
@TheDsIEGE DON'T WORRY ABOUT THAT, plus we literally live in 2 different continents, I'm in Europe, in Italy. So timezones will do their trick, as I can see it will be 9pm for some ppl so don't sweat it! I'm just hyped to watch the video Siege. The only thing actually bothering me is youtube not sending me notifications, it should have gave one 5 minutes ago as I put the notifications on for this premiere
One thing that I have not heard anyone talk about is the backroom. Everyone just accepts it for the story but if you read the Duviri lore it talks about the stranger who came from outside and built a replica of his lab, one filled with Orokin tech that a Tenno would need. That same island disappeared from Duviri and I think that is the backroom, meaning Entrati or the Indifference prepared for us coming to 1999
This is a good catch, I forgot about that...
1999 being a void construct was what i believed since the start.
That kind of means the Drifter is also this (along with the hex). Just like the Zeriman, just like duviri.
The idea that we are part of the tenno trinity is an awesome theory.
And the idea of logic vs emotion with albrich and wally is also very interesting.
Though... Curiously what would his trinity be? His third self? (Maybe its Digital extremes themselves? )
And when you think about the trinity... What is that third? If we look to our "choices" meter-- emotion logic (sun / moon) the middle choice is.... What? Indifference? Balance? (Im inclined to think balance)
The lotus is a balance -- equal parts the logic and furocity of natah, and the emption and care of margulus.
We, as the tenno's third, we are a balance. The one ultimatily making the choices. (Does that mean DE is Dr. Entrati's third? The balance of the two?)
Finally i want to discuss the idea of the sun and the moon. The obvious parrelel. But... What is their trinity?
Is it... The void? The blackened stars?
The scaldra have an interesting symbol for their faction btw. Half a sun, half a moon. Though... Neither conjoined qt the center. Rather the halfs are seperate. Never meeting in equality.
Makes me wonder what the meaning behind this could be~
The scaldra logo also looks like the scrawlings on the Zariman that show two Zarimans punching through each other during the jump, but with a sun Zariman and a moon Zariman 👀
I think i have to rewatch this 2take Video.. like atleast 5-10 more times to wrap my Head around all key points you'd make.
Such a genius take.
Brilliant as per Usual
Höllvania 1999 feels like it's all an experiment. Both Albrecht and Wally take turns in their chess game where they alter the game to see how we would react, both of them have a different hypothesis. The rational and the emotional.
At 1:51 He starts talking. Big spoiler warning.
At 3:52 Starts a clip of a mix of an assortment of DE promotional clips. For atmosphere.
At 5:13 Start talking again, Telling us that there was a hidden website puzzle DE released before 1999.
At 7:22 Starts talking about the content in those puzzles. First group of messages.
At 11:33 Second group of messages.
At 15:03 The Hex Comic
At 16:09 The Nokia-phone reveal
At 20:52 The DNA sequences puzzle
At 21:45 More promotional material distributed after solving all puzzles.
=========> until this point he only retells stuff we've seen without conjecture. From this point own there are theories are presented. The theories have nothing to do with anything presented up to this point.
14:04 "Alright Mark, here's a camera. Have you done your morning jog yet? No? Then do it in the studio, we won't budge."
This is an amazing video, possibly the best one you’ve made yet. (Not to say the others were bad far from it)
Thank you!!! I enjoyed writing the script for this one but the editing made me really dislike it so you saying that... well it's bringing a positive feeling back now!!!
@@TheDsIEGEit was very well put together, and you put together one hell of a theory too.
Interesting ideas. While I think you've been dipping into Lettie's med stash in a few places, I can't deny that a lot of these have merit.
----I don't necessarily believe that the ARG elements are _completely_ Canon to the story, as they have zero in-game preservation (as opposed to past Limited Time Events, whose effects can still be felt to this day). They may have happened off-screen in some way, but I am always going to champion in-game evidence over clever marketing tactics. However, I would say that I do agree that Wally is aware of a third element within Mara Lohk. Whether this is us the players (as the implication seems to be), the remnants of who each Warframe used to be (similarly to Umbra, Jade, & Stalker), or some as-of-yet completely unknown element (A version of Mara Lohk that didn't get chosen for the Zariman or was able to reach Tau?) remains to be seen.
----Assuming, for a moment, that the ARGs _are_ 100% as-seen in real life Canon to the story of the game, this ARG reveals that Wally is manipulating us. The players. So by participating in the ARGs, we aid Wally. Who is, as of yet, the enemy of our characters. If that is indeed true, then DE can never use ARGs again, or at least not in this manner. Because of the ARGs are Canon, and are aiding Wally, then all we have to do is stop playing, and we win. Not really the best thing for DE to do, considering they _need_ the interaction to hype new updates.
----Regarding the "Hex Origin Comic", I would say that Entrati's telling of events could very well be exactly what we're looking at here. Remember, Entrati's perception is skewed by his Orokin upbringing.
----The idea that Hollvania is a new Void Pocket akin to Duviri, rather than being the actual past, is an interesting idea. It would also explain just how the hell Drifter is able to "rewind time". If this is just another defined piece of The Void, it would make sense that Drifter's "Reset" power could work here. It even uses the same spiral effect (though, full disclosure, I think that's more likely to be just simple asset reuse instead of anything significant). And, though it's just a small asset, this _would_ explain why the POM-2's wallpaper uses the Joy Spiral skybox from Duviri (other than the obvious Windows XP reference). And, on a more serious note, it would explain how The Drifter seems to get the perfect reactions to everything he says over the KIM chats. Real people are unpredictable. Even those who you've formed a bond with may not want to discuss past traumas or interact off the battlefield. Yet Drifter seems to get the exact right response every time he makes a dialogue decision. It may very well be that the Hex are Conceptual Embodiments of people that Entrati met in the actual 1999, or are the people that went into making the original Warframes brought to a second mock life via the trace elements left of those people in the Helminth sub-strains; just reformatted to fit in the 1999 illusion. But now I'm starting to stretch.
----The idea that Dominus Thrax is specifically Drifter's "Other" would initially make sense. A copy made when The Drifter was still a scared, lost child, modeled after the main character of Drifter's childhood storybook; who was written as a self-insert. It would also help explain why only The Operator has a doppelganger. However, I think this is a Red Herring. We know from the KIM chats that the entirety of Duviri is made from Drifter's loneliness and intense desire from companionship and distractions from his pain. Think about the ending of the Duviri Paradox quest, how Thrax reacted when confronted by The Drifter. If that was Wally, he wouldn't have acted that way (plus, we already have an analogue to Wally in the form of the laughing man).
----I think that, when the time comes, we _will_ have to forge our own path. As both The Operator and The Drifter, we've always been following someone else's instructions. Lotus, Teshin, the various Syndicates, Entrati, possibly even Wally at some point or another. So forging that third path, the balanced pragmatic path between emotional extreme and cold logic, will very likely be a part of the endgame of Warframe (or at least this arc).
Ok the idea that 1999 is conceptually embodied makes so much sense, I really like that theory and would explain how the drifter’s power works there. Entrati went to Duviri so perhaps he enjoyed the company of said denizens and figured the best way to grow the drifter’s heart in order to control the vessels was to create them himself
Oh no, am I gonna get my heart broken when the bubble of 1999 bursts? If it does.
Or the indifference just found a way to bring the drifter back into his golden cage. I mean it nearly won in the new war. No tenno, nearly everyone veiled and therefore indifferent to their universe around them, just so that the drifter, breaking free of duviri, came into the game to bring it all down. Now we have a new conceptual embodiment with people who the drifter can connect with, who he can love. Who he doesn't want to leave behind. The perfect prison.
Dude your series is so good! Fills in so many gaps. As much as I try and keep up with the lore I still miss things and you've helped get me up to date and see things I've missed. Thank you!
It doesn't matter if we are talking to to real Albrecht entraty or the indifence cosplaying him
But your choices do
Probably the best way to look at it.
37:17 Basically Elsa. "Conceal, don't feel. Don't let 'them' know."
Whispers In The Walls mention that the Indifference has been trapped in the "Strands of Khra (Time) ", and as such, this "1999" is essentially a "conceptually-embodied timeline".
If you look at only the two clear paths as unassociated, you miss the grass path.
Compile from both to reach another end. Link the dots.
1999 happens before "us".
A trap can/cannot work on one who is/is not. An unplanned variable will always escape the loop. Infinity cannot be contained in 1. The finite do not exist to a 0.
... Look for the intersection between the lenses. Red and blue create purple.
If you can create a parallel, your final possible answer has not been found.
An experiment becomes an independent force when one stops observing or can not observe/does not want to observe.
An absolute has no need for subtlety. It is. Perfection does not have imperfections. If it can fail, it is not.
An individual, whatever they may be, is not limited to anything but their abilities and willingness.
Control is never absolute.
And a puzzle cannot be solved without all of its pieces present. *
Have you covered every base?
... But in the end, what you believe is up to you.
You know the pose the operator hits when the drifter tries to explain what happened in the new war? Yeah...
Even the citzens of 1999 don't know if they're real or not some of them think they're "dreaming" or feel strange
I think you're way off with the idea that 1999 is a pocket dimension. It's definitely actual time travel if you ask me. It's muddy because of how vague they tend to be with their worldbuilding, but I think you're assuming you're seeing Conceptual Embodiment when in reality it's a different perspective on Eternalism at play. Just an entire year of events instead of one decision is being rewritten, and we aren't sitting on the other side looking at the different results, we're in the middle actively participating in the constant rewrites.
Bloody hell you made me realize the piece i was missing the whole time. There are some chat messages with Elanor that should be impossible, she not only saw the wall itself but somehow the hex and you have the access. Now if it was 1999 this would be impossible, as stated in the chat itself, cuz there isn't a heart of deimos in this time yet, which would coat the system in void energy. But if this is the void it makes all of it possible. My mind is blown man.
Ok, gotta put this thought somewhere, here's what's on my mind:
Got to see a new tenno play the chains of harrow and my thought is, we still don't exactly know for how long Rell had contact with the indifference, my thoughts are, Tell was autistic, perceiving emotions was challenging for him, and since the indifference seems to mimic those it interacts with, could Tell be the first it talked to and, after mimicking him, had the same problem dealing and identifying emotions and that's why we're where we are??? 👀👀
Oh dear Lua, another rabbit hole to consider.
@annekristiina7503 but it does make sense doesn't it?? Ever since the Duviri Paradox, past, present and future are not linear, and with the thought of Eternalism they speak of, it's supposed to be "every possibility passed, present and to be is accessible at any given time if you know how and have the means to do it", and since Wally is basically "The Master of the Strands of Krha" (fancy way to say he has power of the flow of time 😂😂) it's not far fetched that, to him, the encounter with Rell happened before the one with Albrecht even if the main storyline has it otherwise 👀😂
So I just had a bit of a brainwave while reading through the comments. Someone pointed out that Albrecht is uninjured at the end of the Hex quest, and that that implies that it was The Man In The Wall . It got me thinking what is his play here? What is he after? The general feel I've gotten from the interactions with him is that he is, at most, annoyed with the Operator/Drifter for getting in his way, but doesn't hate them. And his conversation as the Indifference during the Hex quest He tells us that we're not like the Orokin who he calls _butchers_ We were _given_ power freely.
Now if it was indeed The Man In The Wall who was speaking in the end, If it really was him who wanted us to grow our hearts to save the Hex, what is his real goal? Well, what is the Tenno's _real_ power? What makes them special? It's not their Void Devilry, no, it's their ability to see inside _ugly broken things and take away their pain_ .
And _that_ I think, is what The Man In The Wall's plan is. To have us take away his pain, the pain of being butchered for power by the Orokin.
Wait hold up, this is fire
I think a lot of the stuff here has definitely given a lot of context behind Warframe 1999 events. Like how the Tenno/Drifters having a part of Wallie could explain how Wallie got access to 1999 in the first place.
The thing I think differently on is that Albrect is pushing for detachment or cold logic in the Drifter.
In the first ending (bad) he gave the Drifter the cryptic hint of "Not unless you know them". A means to save the Hex.
And this is reinforced by his dialogue when saving all the Hex.
"Your heart would struggle to move them"
"It had to grow"
"Carry this power with mercy..."
Was it a logical decision to nudge the Drifter in a certain direction? Most likely. But I don't think Albrecht wants us to be cold and indifferent.
After all love is the poison to Wallie's plans.
We've seen it in Whispers In The Walls and Wallie even sneered and was angry when Albreact brought it up.
Haven't made it to the Hex quest in game, so I will refrain from watching for now, just know that I appreciate your work, your explanation of deeper symbolism is unmatched. Keep up the great work brother!
Oh wow are you in for a treat. I can't tell you how badly I wish I could replay it. Savor it.
@@TheDsIEGE Oh yes, need replay it like 10 times now!
Great video, however, I think there are some points I would like to add.
First is Eternalism. We know that every time exists as equally as any other, may it be pas, present, future or alternate realities. In this case, there may be a reality where the Drifter chose to follow Albrecht and doomed the Hex and Höllvania. I say "may" because the Operator and the Drifter are really special entities, they / we are the main protagonist of the story, we are not like everyone. We might be a singularity among Eternalism, one special thing.
One point I disagree is to consider "the other" referencing Dominus Thrax. Thrax was not created by the Drifter, it was Euleria Entrati whom wrote the Tales of Duviri, the Drifter only made it real through Conceptual Embodiment. The Drifter and Thrax were only friends, Thrax is not another version of the Drifter or something like that. "The other" is either the Operator, which is highly likely or it is the Operator's Doppelgänger, less likely but still another possibility.
The "impossible images" are just DE using already existing images, creating specific images only for the ARG when there is a substitute is not really worth it. Lore-wise it can be explained by being similar images. I don't think focusing on that is really important. I can still be wrong but it is not a big deal and in that case it only bring more proofs linking toward the importance of our reality in the Warframe story.
Another thing that came to my mind is the parallel between the Void and the Warframe Universe. This came to me while watching 2 shows. The first is Dragon Ball Daima, where it is stated that at the beginning only the Demon Realm existed and that the ruler of this Realm decided to expand it by creating multiple universes. The second is Yu-Gi-Oh! ZEXAL where there exists 3 worlds : the Astral World, the Barian World and the Universe. At the beginning, the Astral World and the Barian World were only one world called the Astral World but it decided to reject Chaos and thus "purified" the Astral World and creating the Barian World. Something similar could have happend in Warframe as the Void (or the Indifference), decided to create the Warframe Universe by rejecting everything else but the Void outside. We are on my personal theories, I'm going really far with that, I don't expect it to be true, just some crazy theories from my own. I just think it can fit well for Warframe.
Something that was not mentionned (but it may be stuff for another video) is the link between Sentients and Popol Vuh, a text from Mayan mythology. With a conversation with Lettie, we know that some phrases used by the Sentients are EXACTLY THE SAME as some used in Popol Vuh. This is something pointed out by the player "Nikodemos" back in 2015 on Warframe Forums. The mysterious message we have at the end of the Stolen Dream Quest is "ALL IS SILENT AND CALM, HUSHED AND EMPTY IS THE WOMB OF THE SKY". This message can be found in this book at page 56. Another "MERELY FRAMED, MERELY SHAPED THEY ARE CALLED. THERE WAS NO THEIR MOTHER, THERE WAS NO THEIR FATHER" from the Lancer Synthesis Scan is also found in the book and is the one written by the Drifter in the Lettie conversation. Her mind blew up learning that and it raises a lot of questions regarding the Sentients. At first glance, it can only be some kind of reference to Popol Vuh but now that we know that this thing exists in the 1999 Universe and that Lettie is aware of that, there is something to dig. Lettie was maybe using Xipe Totec as some kind of reference for the Indifference but she might have found something very very interesting. This single information may be enough to create a 3rd interpretation (the Green Pill) of 1999 and the Warframe Universe.
I will state the questions we still need awnsers (don't hesitate to anwser with questions I may have forgotten) :
- What was the second part of the deal with The Indifference ?
- Same with the supposed deal between The Lotus and The Indifference.
- What is the goal of the Indifference ? Chaos ?
- What is Albrecht's plan ? Why Tau ? How does he fight the Indifference ?
- Is it really Albrecht ? Is he really fighting the Indifference ?
- What really is Höllvania ? Is it created by Albrecht ? The Indifference ? Something else ?
- How can Digital Extremes and a variation of Dark Sector exists in 1999 Höllvania ? Is the Indifference and/or Albrecht aware of our reality ? How can Amir reccreate the game "Warframe" inside of Warframe ? Is our reality just a game in another Warframe universe ?
- How can 1999 Höllvania interfere with our reality with the Technocyte Coda ?
- Why are the Sentients quoting Mayan texts ?
- How important is our reality regarding the events in Warframe ?
- Who can be trusted ?
The Warframe Team is really cooking something. I'm sure 2025 will be a crazy year for Warframe.
So far the Indifference/the Man in the Wall has to be one of the most powerful and clever villain in literature making it extremely intimidating. I have to admit with how cleverly it hides in plain sight, manipulates the behaviour, and obscures clear judgement it makes itself an existential Threat with capital bold *T*. Even when it has seemed to be cornered by the Entrati and the Drifter it has immediately seized the opportunity to literally weaponize the doubt that the Drifter has towards the Albrecht (since he is Orokin, after Ballass better not to trust Orokin) amplifying the doubt into strong emotions.
Speak of the devil... I think the 1999 has been turned into a new prison for the Drifter that does not look like one. For context, when the Albrecht says that the Drifter is more childish than the Operator he could mean emotional development. The Drifter refuses to follow the command to just shoot "it", when the Drifter has already killed 1000+ SCALDRA troops. This doubt is weaponized by the Indifference, to provoke strong emotions in the Drifter, and let the Drifter create their's own perfect prison for themselves. As they would rather *live in their's dream* rather than face the cold reality, and live in a constant loop with the friends.
By the throne, do i love the unending ever changing paths of the warframe story , answering questions with more questions yet giving supposed answers that are meant to be vague , very ... very ... passionate
oh man, Ive been so excited for this since the first one came out. So excited to see this! Thanks so much for all of the theorizing you dive into, its amazing fun to hear someone elses thoughts on this, especially with the caliber of your writing
This also answers the question that i had while playing 1999, why is Hollvania isn't an open world. Why is it a tileset? It makes sense for normal planets to be tilesets, as it can be different ships or bases that we infiltrate/assault, and Entrary's Labs are constantly changing, so them being a tileset also makes sense, but why would Hollvania, a supposedly actual, "real" city be a tileset? You could argue it being different parts of the city, but if that is the case, why our entrance to the tileset is. Always. The same. Same crossroads with Scaldra APCs, with an On-Lyne ball to the left. It could be wavered off as a simple gameplay mechanic, but with the idea that 1999 isn't an actual time and place, but a Void construct? It would make perfect sense why Hollvania is a tileset and not an open world.
Yes, just like the constructed reality we already have and can use as a point of comparison, Duviri.
Fuck this is a really good point. I don't know if it's my confirmation bias or not though.
I think that the indifference can’t comprehend love. He has never encountered or met someone who has shown love to it. If I’m not mistaken, the indifference is based on Entrati’s first encounter with it. I think the indifference exit is on to show negative emotions. I think that’s why the indifference is interested in the Tenno , because he’s never taken from it. I do think love is the answer.
Yes that's what I thought he has only seen "evil" from the other side its like a Lion hunting a rabbit and it runs but the lion might possibly just want a friend and is confused when the rabbit runs and then hurts it (cuts down his finger) and then he gets sealed by Rell inside a Warframe for ALOT of time the only appreciation he has been shown is by Baroo and the Operator hence why baroo has never been hurt in the void hunts or by TMITW it might possibly want love from the other side but thr other side doesn't know because they're like the rabbit to the lion trust
I wonder if this also plays into the “Lotus eaters” origin myth what with the emotional bonds with the Hex enticing the drifter to stay in
“1999”
Wait so its possible my drifter is essentially boinking a form of void angel.... damm
Still, isnt albretch also trying to fool us? If love and hate are weapons agaisnt the indiference, his being so cavalier in pushing us to kill couldnt be an attempt to create both? Love for the hex and hate for him?
Yes, but... I think he's trying to use us to further his goals. In my opinion, he didn't want us to make the emotional connection in the first place. We... weren't supposed to become friends, you know? without that attachment, their deaths wouldn't matter aside from a very general desire to not kill people per se. The relationships... changed the game.
I think he was testing us, continuously. Wally was watching, he didn't have the leeway to give us any more hints. An Orokin will be an Orokin, They never seem to be straightforward. He does not deserve our mercy, he is there to use us, but he is not inherently against us. We are merely an instrument in their war, Orokin and the Void incarnate
There is a profound Problem. The first Cycle came to the End. Albrecht saught in the Beginning. If we or the Drifter where there or not. Had no impact on the Outcome.
By the Drifters work to safe the Hex (unwillig Creations of the Void, that like all Other Creations like Duviri, Zariman Crew, was not cared for by the Void) anchored Höllvania. As a parallel Dimension. Different in Time as well as Space. The Void seeking to devour all, in Order to begin anew. Makes me think that the Void is strained by anchored parallel Dimensions. Needing more and more Focus over greater Spaces or is geeting overfeed but is more compartmented to these "New Toys". Leaving an exploitable Opening elsewhere. Left to be identified.
Holovania being a conceptual embodiment would explain a lot of gameplay mechanics that break the lore.
How are we able to use Air Support if our ship isn't in 1999, let alone summon Khal or our On-Call Crew?
Why do artifacts from the origin system, like Ayatan Sculptures, show up sometimes in 1999?
How are the Acolytes showing up in Steel Path?
And the Atomicycle... something we gained in 1999 and hypothetically don't have a way to take back to the future... we just happen to be able to use it anywhere now...
Itsnotabug 🐛
tbf that last one is basically an ascendant bug but yea.
There’s a few things that I would like to add to this because it adds to the proof that Wally is behind everything that happens after he takes you to the zariman
1. Wally blatantly lies when he says he gave his powers to you “freely” the deal was (or is most likely to be) the Tennos “light” for the void powers. A lot of people assume that you got void powers and Wally got your “light” in an indirect way by killing all of your other selves except 2 (drifter and Tenno) and then got the players “light” by taking away Drifters emotional stability by trapping him in duviri where he became detached from emotion. I believe that this isn’t the light that Wally was referring to and instead is the Tenno/Drifters ability to connect to people. As we see in the zariman room where the deal occurred, even as a child the Tenno/Drifter were natural leaders and took care of the other children (except Rell). I believe wally is going to use this power that we have to connect to more people in order to manifest himself fully in our dimension. Wally operates very similar to classic devils and demons in that he does not directly harm people but instead makes deals with others that eventually backfire on them. We know he made deals with those who speak void tongue (Dante, Parvos, likely made a deal with the animals Loid takes care of as well) and now through this deal for T/D’s light he his able to connect to everyone that T/D connect to.
2. As mentioned in other comments if Love is Wally’s weakness, then why did he laugh in the cutscene where you refuse Albrecht idea of killing Wally and letting the bomb happen due to your care for the hex? Why does Wally continue to almost egg the drifter on by antagonizing him with the death of his comrades? Why did albrecht go from beaten and bruised to completely healed after Wally took you to Zariman? And most notably WHY DID ALBRECHTS VOICE HAVE THE VOID GROWL THAT WALLY ALWAYS HAS when speaking to you during the ending about the importance of love.
Albrecht wants you to detach yourself emotionally. Wally wants you to make connections that he can use against you later in order to manifest himself. These are the two sides of the coin mentioned at the end of the video. The 3rd option would be for the T/D to actually use these connections to fight back against Wally through genuine caring and relationships. This would still follow Albrechts theory that love is Wally’s poison as well as Wally just wants to use these connections as a way to gain power instead of actual relationships with people
I was actually waiting for your videos on 1999, siege! You and NovaUmbral are currently my favorite WF tubers
1- you did a phenomenal job breaking things down further. I knew a lot about this already but not the stuff involving Twitter.
2- As per what you and I had talked about last year- months ago- I used part of your previous video to link God into the picture with the emphasis being on “Love”. Sacrifice is a minor theme here that may play a bigger part that could tie into the 3rd option…. Or if any secret options…. Which I suspect do exist.
3- I’ll be using the whole message Entrati says (around the 17min mark) as my new phone recorded message to mess with others who call the number…. And because the ending “hang…. It…. Up” is a double conundrum for hanging up the phone.
4- I know something relevant is outside of the safe room but what, idk yet. The symbols on the wall around the mirror/ doorway also suggest more but that’s probably simple- the man in the wall wanting more access.
5- I’ve got to recheck some of those areas mentioned because I’m genuinely curious in what else was- is left behind.
6- You explaining more about how Duiviri and Thrax fits in wasn’t something I realized before…. So ty. That was new and very appreciated.
7- DE may have dropped the ball on some areas due to issues beyond their control like running out of time- or not explaining their story well enough is something or rather some things that they’re taking time to correct and to fill out more.
After all that all I gotta say is I choose Eleanor and unfortunately if I gotta sacrifice her the the solor system may be cooked cause I’m not
That... was the goal!
Another night another lore vid at 3am let’s go baby
I hope you enjoyed!!!
Finally getting to watch this! Excellent as always!! WIth the name of the next content having been announced, I feel like the ripple we created with saving 1999 and the Hex will echo (hehe) out into the next parts of the game. Are we, the player, giving credence to Wally's emotions? There's a saying from Skeleton Key that sticks with me. "I doesn't work, if you don't believe." And with every new quest, Wally seems to gain power, sentience, and emotions the longer we spend trying to figure the Indifference out. So is Tau really the end game? Or is it something else? We end as we began? Awakening? Asleep? That is the question isn't it, kiddo? I'll end this with where it seemingly all began. Lohk. Void. From brooding gulfs are we beheld by that which bears No Name. :) When you stare into the abyss long enough, the abyss stares back. Are we really prepared to find out the Truth?
As we know the void manifests the emotional insecurities of those who com in contact with it like reverse therapy so what if the void is not conscious at all and the indifference is merely albrects fear and insecurity manifest like the drifter what if the the void is just “hell”.
the whole "we end as we began" makes me think that maybe somehow through void foolery, entrati will harness the power of the void and he'll "go back" and meet himself from the past, when he first entered the void and make it full circle somehow
Am I the only one that calls the eye logo as "the lidless eye?"
29:26 "🎶 the signals spread, i can feel it in my bones 🎶"
A thought occurs. There is at least one closed door in the sanctum automatica that we can't access.
My question (assuming the 1999 year is a self contained loop) does this door connect to that loop?
I think you're scratching at the surface of the truth, but some points are missing the forest for the trees.
I fully believe that the man in the wall IS entrati. Just not OUR entrati. It's the version of him that is indifferent to others where as ours realized his mistakes with his daughter and loid and held on to his emotions.
Much like how the drifter is the version of the tenno who didn't take the deal. Why else would he always take the operators form when he appears to us and never the drifter? The void is really more of a two-way mirror than a wall. It shows a reflection, but if you look at the right places or under the right conditions, you can see the other side. Also, remember that in duviri, there is a mini game where you have to move a reflection of yourself(as an operator) to find beacons/chests. Coincidence or subtle storytelling?
This is very interesting!!!
@TheDsIEGE Glad I could spark some interest 🙂.
I would also include a chat by Eleanor where she sees and "touches" another version of herself by venturing into the void as another example.
If the indifference is entrati, it would also be the entrati who never gave up the kuva, who continued his emotionless experiments to whatever ends. At some point both entratis reached into the mirror of the void and met. Whether this was the first contact ever or a carefully constructed experiment by the other is up for discussion as there are in game hints at previously occurring void encounters(per letti KIMs), but our entrati pulled back after being disgusted/fearful of what he saw. Closing the door and cutting the others digits.
It also likely why we keep seeing a swing in personalities between entrati, sometimes accompanied by that signature smile. I often thought the entrati recordings always seemed off. Especially compared to when you talk to him in person in 1999. It always seemed, forced and distant. Like something was wearing an entrati suit and trying to talk like a human. Would they not also have similar references for transference much like we did with Arthur in the prequel as well as the beginnings of 1999? Because we have that commonality with Excalibur much like they would have with eachother?
I'm starting to ramble but, the rabbit hole just keeps going when you talk about eternalism or mutli earth theories.
If this is true it wouldn't be entrati it would be a Tenno
@suwe entrati was the one who first opened the door to the void. The zariman ten zero would have been after his initial contact
@@Insidius1 He takes the operators form cuz of Chains of harrow
Well, time to go train for this one🫡
what if we are the one who will actually experience the "I have no mouth, and I must scream" eternal life? For the "greater good"? Replacing the man in the wall or join them in indifference for all eternity, thus becoming one with the void itself?
What if, all this time, the indifference just wants a life partner and it is the ultimate husbando/waifu?
Omg yes! I'm totally down with this line of thinking. I remember commenting in another video a similar thought I had, pointing out that we could potentially be a third facet of the Tenno in our reality, I love to hear your thoughts on this. I guess that "third" could also be Thrax as you put it, but who's to say Thrax isn't a stand in for... the player?
Anyway, If we're heading down the 4th wall breaking storytelling route, which I personally believe is exactly whats gonna happen, ooo this is gonna be so freaking good. Amazing stuff as usual Siege.
when you get the the point where you max a romance with a hex member and have one in the backrooms you can break up with them, and sometimes you can hear Wally mockingly laugh at you after.
my head canon is that we're the Wally's personal soap opera now.
Fun fact for thought on the final scene with Loid. The sign the Automata flashes is actually ASL for "see you later." Taken in context with who/what's had the most interaction with that particular one, I.E. Whispers. You gotta wonder who's flashing that sign.
As someone who has also virtually memorized all the dialog from those films.... I see what you did there ;-}
Yea… perhaps I shouldn’t have watched this, though I wonder did anyone else get KiM dialogue with hex members referencing a sibling?? Coz like… it’s the first I have really seen/heard about in the lore( unless I’m just ignorant to it) I mind Socratetris made a duviri vid a while back. He theorised that thrax was actually your sibling but I feel like there’s also evidence against that as well.
Never the less bloody great vid man always a pleasure to watch your work unfold and inadvertently reshaping how I see hollvania and the hex.
I remember that vid and I think there is a case of Thrax both being the Drifter's sibling while also not. In one of the KiM messages I got talking about Duviri and Thrax (it might have been two conversations I would have to check) it is mentioned by the Drifter that they did have a sibling who died. Additionally the Drifter mentions creating Thrax cause they wanted a friend. (Which technically makes Thrax the Drifter's child but anyways) The appearance of Thrax was based off of the book and the figure, but it is possible that the personality of Thrax outside of the Narration (with his emotions) was based on the sibling the Drifter lost.
That's how I took it anyways.
@TarotKeichii thanks for the insight and here I thought I was going insane but I would like to get more lore on this subject from DE as I believe it’s a nice bit of world building that unearths just a little more of our pre-zariman lore
(Also I would personally say thrax is more of a machination than a child or atleast that’s how I like to see it but I can also see your point of view with seeing them as more of a progeny)
At least in one KIM conversation, my drifter mentioned that he had a sister, so i don't know if thrax could be his sibling then.
I believe that when drifter speaks of a sibling they're speaking of the operator.
@@Mr.SoulMusical Problem is he also mentioned that his sibling died.
I still don't understand how Entrati came to Duviri, and why does he say that it's his daughter who created people there, not the Drifter. And during the Duviri quest, the Drifter originally didn't have transference or void powers, right? But got those from the Operator, also somehow? Or simply 'awoke' them, and transference sorta came by on its own?
That was...quite the rabbit hole
"You'll have to make up your own mind" Hmmm where have I heard that before Oracle?
omg part 2 is finally out, time to be mind blown again
So the way I think im seeing this, whether the man in the wall or albrecht are aware about it, the void, butchered and half baked in formation without consent, dose not nor will ever truely understand emotion like the Tenno and Drifter, still ravenously hunts through a self serving hunt of satisfaction and revenge, the worst attributes of humanity, but none of the actual quality's and complection of it, shown by how they cant even hold a single form or face.
Albrecht who caused the voids awakening has some form of savior complex, revolutionizing void travel and jump starting some of the Orokins most impressive feats searchs a way to bury his love, and burning every bridge that he should hold sacred, whist still having the gaul to justify what he sees in his mind as "The end justifies the mean" and hiding away in 1999 for he is aware the void wants him, and will stop at nothing to achive its pursued goal to be whole and made anew and complete, whist unaware that albrecht is searching for the exact opposite, destroying himself if needed.
This all culminates into what id believe to be the ultimate deciding factor of the end of Warframe, the morality dial, one side a blinding emotion driven wailing less of an Inferno and more akin to a tantrum throwing baby
(as seen with many of the desions made in game, to the mirror of the drifter dominous thrax, Ballas, and umbra)
Or a self loaving darkness unable to have the courage to put itself together, dives deeper into black waves of oblivion as a veil to hide the truth. (Examples include Nata, Hunhow and the very consept the made the lotus)
The middle is control, the middle is acceptance
Not to be consumed by emotion but not a deep regression and avoidance of it, but an acknowledgement you cant changes the past but still can be hopefull for the possible futures there to be, the loop is the worst of both worlds, never ending but always in flux, the solution is for the void to be forgiving, and albrechts admission of his faults.
This for my perspective is how warframe ends, not at how we began, and not of who we are, but of what we want to be.
The answer was given to us from the very start.
(Didnt know where to put this so ill say it here the Tau system we keep hearing about my just be infact where we end, and possible the begining of soul frame? Its the next logical step and i feel as if the physical action of moving on to a new solar system, not to conquer or destroy, is the best way to represent moving away, and embracing a new and brave world)
Welp, have a gn!
"Dream, not of what you are, but of what you want to be."
I don't think Albrecht has a savior complex, he was mentioned to be an underachiever, more like an ocean's worth of guilt, frantically trying to fix his one mistake while being emotionless as possible, since look what happened when his emotions met with the void.
And as for Wally motivation, I personally believe it is just doing what he was made to do, Albrecht stranded in the void made him fear it, hate it since he was going to die in it, mixed with his memories rushing to him (seeing your life flash before your eyes type stuff) created a version of the void, that is actively malicious as the doctor feared, with the intelligence and, most importantly, curiosity of a scholar. There is a reason why Wally always calls someone by a nickname given to them by their parents, it holds emotional value.
I see Wally as not the whole void itself, more like conceptual embodiment embodied if that makes sense, it can only work with what is given to it.
You should take a look at the first on-lyne song. A few of the lines back this theory on second listen
-the signals strong you can feel it in the floor
-now you can see there is no stopping me
-this is just the beginning
With this perspective these lines could be the indifference mocking the tenno/player especially if we are to assume this world is a construction it's not far fetched. Other lines could help symbolize the indifference's conflict with entrati.
The orokin knew of the void prior to entratis breakthrough hence why he was a pariah amoung them for his research into it. That implies that the void was well aware of the orokin at that stage and all intact, essentially all powerful but inert. Many of entrati's statements in game are quite emotional, on contact with the void entity his colder more calculating side that we later see in 1999 comes to the for as he wonders if he is still trapped in the wall. After watching this video I think not only is he trapped he may actually be wally and the entrati we see, all of them has been the indifference. It may be why wally uses 'demons' as a sort of trick that worked the first time. A body swap enabled by conceptual embodiment seeing yourself outside of yourself as the eldrich entity may make it reality in that moment and long enough for the existing entity to enter the world of dust in mortalish form. Entrati trapped as wally and missing a finger may be attempting to doublicate the trick performed on him to get him trapped, it also explains the horror aspects associated with wally as we know him. But Entrati as we know him is still an enigma, was he always wally? or was he himself tricked by something else or someone else to take their place? With the logic of eternalism the original could be literally anyone in the multiverse. My bet is captain Vor... we end as we began awaiting the baptism of his janus key lol
edit: it would also explain why the climatic moment in whispers actually worked, using transference on a vessel grants the user the sensation of touch and that moment of connection with loid that the real entrati could only watch from the void as this entity operated his mortal form. It may have triggered an emotional response so great it caused what we saw. Walliti to run away crying basically.
I think the third option requires the Tenno. After all it was Rell who held the man in the wall back for so long. By the time Rell chained himself Albrecht had already begun the Kalymos sequence and went to Holvania a place the indifference could follow. But no one else seems to have come into contact with the man in the wall until we free Rell of his vigil.
So our Tenno should also be capable of putting a lock on the indifference's influence.
My gut also tells me this is being teased. Why does the dialogue (both in the story & hex chats) address the "child" with negative associating words or phrasing?
I have felt for awhile that the reason entrai calls it the indifference is because thats all he is and all the void could become from just him
"coin landing on its edge" Anothrr fititng use of legacy of kain my guy
Hey Siege! There's something that I noticed when watching Aztecross playing the New War (Which you probably already know but I'll leave it here). Remember that scene when we shook hands with Wally? Even though he was using our body to speak with us, his hand was actually Lotus's hand, not ours. Which makes me think, was that what created the link between The Operator and Drifter? Also, could that be where she made a deal with TMITW?
That was weird, about 2 hours ago i was wondering when this video would come out.
I woupdnt be surprised if the indefference great plan is to prime, to groom or to prepare the tenno into bein the new man in the wall, but not in a forcefull way as the orokin once did with continuity, but a more suggestive and guidefull way, as if a teacher training the one whos gonna be the next teacher after he retires
The thing I'm still not clear about is why (narratively) 1999 needs to be a perpetual time loop. All the dialogue with the Hex means they're all very aware the time loop is indefinite but I haven't seen a good narrative explanation for why. Surely the end of The Hex quest should mean we've achieved the best outcome with both Albrect and Wally seeming to now turn their attention to other times and places (Tau apparently). Why do we need to stick around 1999 keeping it looping so?
Let's not forget what got us in 1999 in the first place.
The call of the Void itself, through Entrati's pager.
Also, ponder this, time and time again we've seen our doppelgänger in league with what we presume is the Void itself, either as the giant Vitruvian man or disguised as Dr. Entrati. Given what we know of Entrati through his logs or heard from others, he doesn't strike me as a man worth our trust or empathy.
He's got a horrible disregard for life apart from his Kalymos (though I suspect an ulterior motive there, too). He partook in the Yuvan ceremony and sent countless beings to their deaths. He is exactly like how he describes the void to be: indifferent, apathetic, and at every turn "the indifference" seems to mirror his personality.
What if our void doppelgänger is but a future version of ourselves that took Entrati's offer and now works for him
A little unrelated but i hope they make use of more tenno in the story, because they gave some of them names in the new war.
4:23 my phone started to do its own thing wtf. It made me scared. Switched to another video, wanted to share the screen with a TV and I was barely able to restart it. It will be so awesome if it starts to break down now, when I need everything on it😢
I think I'm now more interested in what lies in the void itself. What does Wally's own world have in it? We've only seen a peak of it through the Sanctum Anatomica. Could it hold some answers to our questions or a terrifying realization of what's to come?
35:36 - wait. Is the Drifter the original? And is our Tenno, which came out of nowhere (no kids apparently on the Z.Ten Zero) an...inexperienced Entity? Trying to get a grasp on choices (the quest choices) and emotions (what it lacked as a void entity)???
I watched this, went to take a dump and while sitting there I was thinking.. I believe you are onto something. Considering we are always given 3 options when having to make a choice in Warframe (Emotion, Acceptance?, Logic), The Indifference wants us to be emotional, Albrecht wants us to be logical, but what about the third choice? That may even be what you were hinting at with your last question, I shall continue to ponder. Amazing video as per usual. Thanks!
Edit: Also to add onto that, "we end as we began".. Relate it to DE, how did they begin? Since we are talking Warframe here I'd say they began with Dark Sector. And at that I shall leave it to enable your own thoughts without imposing my own. I don't think it's a stretch considering that WE as the real people seem to be part of the lore.
Edit2: While talking to others, saying how I love that we became/are part of the lore and how it's breaking the 4th wall.. I had a random thought. Breaking the 4th wall.. Man in the wall.. Coincidence? Why did they choose the term "wall"? Just collecting my thoughts here at this point I guess lol.
Back then in another of your video's comment, I said "introducing the third dream" since in the ARG I felt like WE as the player would become part of a trinity with the operator and the drifter.
Thinking about it, the lotus now has 3 parts in herself. I am now wondering if Albrecht/wally would also have a 3rd part in them? The idea of tri-trinity with the player/lotus/indiference would be interesting for the devs to explore.
Don't think I didn't catch that Legacy Of Kain reference at the end there. The coin, landing on its edge.
Hmmm.... You know the one thing the void has never had is love. Everyone, everything else gets this bond but not it.
When we stopped the rouge construct in whispers in the walls it was a single kindness, something its never encountered.
It super messed up, but based on the themes i get from watching all the old lore, Solving the puzzles in duvuri where opposites are often the solution, I wonder if that's what wally's really after... Love.
has anyone else with a alignment leaning twoards the black side had the helminth comment on the drifter saying "shadows grow within this void demon"?
ive had quite a bit of light choices made and the bar is close to balanced but with a decent bit of choices the darker ones resonated more with my own decision on the matter. was wondering of the significance of the alignment and this might just be what is being alluded to
I wish we had more choice in quests, I would've capped Major Rulsalka with no hesitation.
I think that what Albrecht would classify as maturity is something like commitment to a cause or resolve. He is a Machiavellian character who lives by the motto "the ends justify the means".
I see many people talking of "the ends justify the means" as some sort of evil villainous line that's clearly wrong and only designed to justify the unjustifiable.
The truth is that "the ends justify the means" is an absolute truth that everyone agrees with when applied rationally. If you know with certainty the consequences of a choice, you're choosing the which end will happen.
@@projekcja It isn't an absolute truth. Morally, it is called "consequentialism" which is just a viewpoint that can be criticised. It is easier just to look at the Wikipedia entry for it, but the main problem for me is that it requires the "protagonist" to have a perfectly clear view of what will happen in the future. This can only happen in bad anime shows.
@@mattd8725 But it fits quite well in Warframe.... The Hex would be perfectly justified to kill Scaldra as they were trying to prevent a nuclear explosion!
The nuclear explosion is justified if without it the techrot ends up destroying all humanity.
The alternative to utilitarian ethics and consequentialism is the view that an action itself has value, regardless of its consequences. If its wrong to kill, its wrong to kill even to prevent a nuclear explosion that would kill everyone anyhow. No one actually subscribes to this straw-man ethical viewpoint.
One thing I am sure of, is that we are in fact in the past.
The Technocyte Conda are the reason for that.