Great documentary. I just got a Super Chief Limited with the 116 in Metallic black. I checked out some Harleys and liked them also but I'm the kind of guy that just has to be different, roots for the underdog, etc. So the Indian was the best fit. All great bikes though, the more companies making motorcycles the better!
I read the book on the founding 4 of HD ... it was a very interesting read ... HD nearly went bankrupt during the great depression and they were also very anti semetic, but it was a jew who had changed his name to get a job at the factory.... but the biggest surprise in the book was that both CEO's of Indian & HarleyDavidson would meet in secret once a year at a New York Hotel and monopolize the motorcycle market by setting prices and dealerships to keep out other manufacturers.... its an eye opener of a read ...
Just got my first Harley-Davidson a clean 1994 FXDWG Dyna Wide Glide with the Evo 80. Have hardly ridden it yet, I want to change out the tires and it seriously needs the new carburetor that was installed by the previous owner to be tuned.
Great video, didn't know thar harley was owned by amf for some time (like indian is owned by polaris now). Somehow this is a big deal for some people. Both have their advantages. HD with their big dealership, lots of custom parts and Indian with their design and technique (ride command+). The seat in harleys was more comfortable, but the (stock) sound on Indian and also the gearbox is much better. So after driving 2 harleys, i got stuck on an indian chief dark horse.
That was most likely the best put together doco that i😮have seen. I've had 2 Indians with my second that imhave had since 2018.. the first Road Master Elite, absolutely love it. 115000klms is testament to that.. the 111 is a master piece.. Great video well done.
Great video! I just started on the Honda monkey a year ago and this upcoming weekend I'm getting an Indian Scout Rogue! I've checked out many different brands of bikes and the Indian Scout felt the best in my opinion for what I was looking for!
Excellent buddy, I'm glad you enjoyed it and I'm sure you will love the Indian! There's a couple doco's about Burt Munro on the channel you might enjoy too. Bit of a step up from a Monkey to a Scout, ride safe mate!
I was a salesperson at a new Indian dealership in Texas from late 2014 to mid 2016. It was an interesting time. The Indian brand under Polaris really came out swinging. There were a lot of standard features included for the price, which would have been an additional upgrade to add onto a comparable model from Harley-Davidson. (I.e. standard 111 ci motor, cruise control, remote locking bags, LED lamps, real leather seats, and more.) That alone sold many people on the brand in those early years. I'm not sure how they stack up these days, but I think the Indian brand has its best shot under current ownership than it's ever had since 1953. Very well done video, too. Cheers!
Started riding HD motorcycles in ‘82. Wanted a bagger so in 2019 switched to the Indian Chieftain dark horse. 67yrs old now still love both American motorcycle brands. May end up on a smaller scout or soft tail slim as my last ride
Excellent documentary! Good to learn the thunderstoke 111 has been in constant use since 2013 by Indian. Looks and sounds like a true testament to the reliability of the design. Thank you for your research and time to make and post this great information.
Jeez mate, thank you for taking the time to give me such great feedback. It truly means a lot that some viewers do make the effort. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
As a proud owner of a stunning 2019 Indian Springfield in steel gray and metallic burgundy, it is Cruiser Heaven, all day, every day. All the new Indians have something for everyone, and are worthwhile bikes to own. Very competitive to and more often exceeds Harleys in suspension, engine, and new tech.
I agree. I went to the dealership specifically for a 2019 Springfield but ended up getting the chieftain instead. Indian really lacks the after market support. And I also thought that going with Indian, add ons were not as expensive as Harley. Boy was I wrong.
@@grantchristiansen8432 Yeah, accessories are at a premium price, but with some judicious bits, I've been able to make my Springfield stand out a little. I get a lot of compliments on it at bike gatherings. If it was just another black Harley, you have to spend a ton just to make it stand out from all the other black Harleys, so there's that. Gotta alove that TS111 engine though, it's a jewel. I do love the Chieftain as well, especially the old classic retro style like my Springfield. I like all the Indian models but wish Indian would keep both new and retro styles for all the big bikes. I think there's room for both.
the problem with Indian is the dealerships, lack of service, lack of modification, little to no aftermarket, ive had Indian's along the way and while they are cosmetically good looking bikes they have the Toyota cheap plastic feel to them which is why i sold mine. Today i am the proud oner of a 2009 Harley Rocker C, 2014 Harley Dyna Wide Glide and 2021 Harley Street Glide, no matter what i want to do to any of my Harley's there are cosmetic and performance upgrades pretty much anywhere.
Well put together although a little misleading at the beginning concerning the first motordromes. Harley never competed in the steep short versions or so called ‘murderdromes’, they started competing later in the longer, flatter board tracks. Excelsior was Indians rival in the murderdromes.
@@glennb9535 thanks my research at the time was correct and pedantic. But who really knows for sure? Appreciate the feedback buddy, very much so. Cheers!
Glad u enjoyed it, yes it's accurate although techically speaking Indian didn't actually go bankrupt they just closed the doors and stopped production.
Great Doco. Never really been into Harley Davidsons that much. But I am starting to get closer to that age when my Suzuki GSEXR is becoming a little uncomfortable to ride ?? That and the fact I work plenty of hours a week in my own business. This usually means I am borderline knacked when I have free time to Enjoy a ride, LOL. Adding to that pain, is the amount times I have come off second best when cars take me out of action ?? The Joys of Riding a Bike 🙄 But I'm Not alive unless I have Bike in my Garage ready for a ride when the world is getting the better of me ?? I see a few bikes here that would be Good to own. The Ever Popular 1958 HD Duo Glide ( many times seen this bike in a movie or 2 ) A Nice Classic 1948 HD FL. That would be great to have in the Garage. ( Perfect for a Weekend Ride ) And of course at least 1 Indian to add to the list ? 2002 Indian Chief. Beautiful looking bike. ( what a shame it was not a very reliable engine, but I'm sure that could be improved upon with some reworking ) Just some food for thought as it comes time to think about a Bike to replace my current ride.
Thanks for your positive feedback buddy! I dont think it would matter now if you bought a 20 yr old Indian 20 or indeed a shovelhead harley as any issues would be sorted out by now. I dont think shovels were as bad as they made out, sure they need a bit of attention but thats all part of ownership i reckon. I am similar to you, I ride a Ducati, plenty of people bag out Harleys but they obviously have never had one! They have plenty of power etc... All bikes are cool in my opinion.
@@motorcyclecafe Totally Agree. All Bikes are Cool. Unless you have ridden a bike in your life. You could never understand how Good it feels to Ride a Bike. I only feel bad for the Guys who gave up bikes in their late 20's or early 30's to concentrate on starting a Family then came back in their late 40's to early 50's and start riding again ?? Some of these Guys get a huge fright, to find out Bikes are more powerful and Car Drivers are Less forgiving ???? Seen a few Guys on this path. Now their Children are off their hands. They are all cashed up, and ready to go out and buy another bike again ?? Only later to find out, they are Not 22 Years Old anymore ?? I won't say to much more about what happens next. I don't want to scare everyone off Bikes, LOL. Thanks for your reply. Really Enjoyed watching the video. And stay SAFE out there too 👍
doc a few points from Harley for only being able to survive because of government interventions during Regan. They got points in the 80's synthetically.
Nice history lesson. While i haven't owned either brand, i keep up with what they are both up to and if i had to choose my next bike might possibly be an Indian to compliment my Victory
3:05 - 4:10 A little disappointed these historical points didn't translate to scoring points for Indian, as they had a clear advantage over Harley-Davidson: 1) raced 5 years ahead of HD 2) 1st to race internationally 3) had superior technology to ALL other motorcycles globally (chain drive and 2-speed transmission) 4) dominated completion - swept 1st-3rd place in 1911 Isle of Man TT. 5) 1913 sold 32K bikes or more than 2x over HD These scoring omissions make your criterion somewhat suspect. Other than their knucklehead and panhead introductions keeping HD competitive, HD was really saved by 1) Indian's demise in 1953 and 2) the introduction of the Sportster in 1957, which addressed the threat of their new British competition. Oddly enough, most HD riders have disrespect for both Indian AND the Sportster. I love both. And yet, even with the 1958 Duo Glide and 1965 Elecra Glide they soon collapsed (Japanese bikes and the 1966 shovelhead dug their grave) and were kept afloat by AMC. Thanks for this documentary. You saved me lots of money on purchasing 1960s-1970s Indians - I couldn't figure out why their value was so low. NOW I know. *edited for accuracy
Hi buddy, yes you correct in what you say, Indian were indeed a long way in front during the early years. I just did the scoring thing basically for a bit of fun not for anything meaningful. Both brands have earned their place in history I believe.
Motorcycle fan here. My pops had a VStar Roadstar (very comfortable bike), road king and currently drives a cross country tour converted into a trike. I do feel like you skipped over a few years of Harley. It is interesting to see the accomplishments early on in Indian history vs Harley. After their demise, you could almost give a point to Harley every year after they came out with a new bike. They pretty much dominated until the thunderstroke. I have a vegas 8-ball and a 2019 chieftain dark horse. Stock the indian is meh. Mine has a BBK116 with cam and tuner, high intake with Rinehart exhaust. Its a monster. When looking for bikes, I sat on a lot of Harleys. I like them but most were too big for me. I was shocked to sit on a chieftain and feel how well proportioned it was (for me) and I could touch with minimal effort. While I wanted to be in the HOG family, I just was not impressed with either Indian and Harley in the most recent designs. Nothing jumped out at me. I did see a cvo that I drooled over however the price tag was just way too much. Chieftain is more my size but could have gone either way. And honestly, if I sat back and really thought about it, I might have gone with Harley just for the aftermarket support. I hope Indian catches up (why are there no nice saddle bag bra's!!) Thanks for the doc!
Thanks for watching and the feedback. I may of skipped Harley a bit I didn't want to make it too long a watch, so I only covered the most important models. Indian were dominate in the early days but it gradually changed, from my research in the early day indian & harley hated each other, lol. I like both brands.
@@motorcyclecafe I am with you. It could be said that possible Indian is pulling ahead slightly now since Polaris. Most people do not realize that Polaris is an American company. And while both manufacturers source parts abroad (this is a US economic issue, not a brand issue) it is said that Indian is more American than Harley these days. I like both brands. A lot. My buddy has an 88 (soft tail? Dyna?) carbureted and the sound could just put me to sleep.
Like most documentaries on HD/AMF You gave Willie G's buy back credit for the EVO. The Evo was in development along with CNC machinery brought in by AMF, that saved the Motor Company. I know it is "HIP" to bad mouth AMF but even Willie G admitted to the AMF contribution's success.
Hi of course you are correct and even though under AMF Harley Davidson did suffer many quality problems AMF did in fact save the company. Without them I doubt Hartley Davidson would exist today. Appreciate you taking the time to comment. Thanks
I learned quite a bit. It's nice to finally know what AMF Harley's are. I always liked the look of their bikes, turns out they're not even really Harleys..lol
@@motorcyclecafe Correct! AMF Harleys are STILL Harleys. Funny Story: As a kid, I had an AMF Roadmaster bicycle. I used to say I had a Harley AND a Buick! LOL.
I once had a 1974 FLH I rode it hard and never did it leak oil except the push rod seals, I worked out how to stop this, it had shit brakes so I worked out how to fix this. I also wore many footboards away. Talk about poor stopping I had a 40 Indian Chief its front brake was an ornament but I learnt to overcome this , my mates who rode Triumph, Norton and Harley were surprised how fast it was but I could ride well. I have owned so many motorcycles in my 71 years I have to try remember them all. a sweet running Commando is up there with the best..
Yer I like the Scouts but there are so low with very poor cornering clearance. I like both brands, all bikes actually. Thanks for taking the time to comment your thoughts.
I had two uncles after the Korean War they became motor officers for the City of New York. One was a die-hard Indian fan the other was a die-hard Harley fan. Even when the two of them were in their 90's they would get drunk at holiday get-togethers and insult each other's motorcycles and would end up in the driveway pounding The Living Daylights out of each other leaving blood all over the snow while my aunts would be standing on the stoop saying dinner is getting cold are you done yet? They rode their Motors all through the winter. I had an uncle who work for NBC in New York he would take the big cans of film to the developer and sit in the bar across the street until the boy came and got him to tell him that the film was developed. He put a sidecar on the bike in the winter so he would not fall down and go boom. That's why in the old days the TV would say film at 6 or film at 11 because it had to be developed. He kept telling me when they throw dirt in my face you get my scooter but my aunt sold the bike at a lowball price and included the sidecar as well. Both of my uncles would teach me limericks bad-mouthing the other bikes. Had enough trouble with your Indian chief wants some more by an Indian four. Harley-Davidson made of tin ride them out and push them in. Fine Indian made of steel twist her grip and make her tires squeal. Never in doubt by an Indian Scout. Indian and Harley Davidson hated each other the same way BSA and Triumph hated each other. But that is another story.
That is a very cool story mate and I have no doubt it's 100% true. The Harley and Indian rivalry goes way back to the early days. Have you seen the series 'Harley & the Davidsons' ?
When I saw "War" in the title, I thought you would get into WWII for these companies. From what I understand, the US Government, before the war (during the Great Depression), put out specs for motorcycles they wanted. 650cc engine was one of them. Indian made their bikes to the Government specs. Harley just sent one of their 750cc bikes. If Harley couldn't meet the specs, they shouldn't have been allowed into the competition. Obviously, the 750cc beat out the 650cc bikes. Harley made the majority of the bikes for the US, and Indian sent theirs overseas. US Servicemen, returning after the war, were more exposed to Harley - I believe THAT was one of the biggest things that did in Indian.
U know Harley sold their design to the Japanese before the war and the Japanese produced Rikuo bikes which were actually Harleys and used them during the 2nd world war. So in fact Harley Davidson contributed to the Japanese War effort. I didnt mention this in the video because a lot of people do not like the truth.
As a proud owner of a stunning 2019 Indian Scout Bobber in white smoke, I walked into a Harley dealership by accident then walked out. Indian far surpasses the badge and bar bikes
LOL, its actually the Bar & Shield I had the opposite experience, when i walk into a Harley dealership i am greeted and offered assistance and give the space to look around if i want it. At Indian there was very people in the dealership yet still ignored by the staff I am a proud owner of a 2009 Harley Rocker C, 2014 Harley Dyna Wide Glide and 2021 Harley Street Glide Ive had a couple Indian's along the way and always sold them off, felt very plastic kinda like getting into a Toyota, just that overall cheap feeling
Something I think would would be interesting is the Indian head symbol on their gas tank if Indian cane before Harley Davidson then their Indian head should be patented which in my. Opinion is similar to the Hells Angels patch which is also patented would it be patent infringment..
I'm in the market for a cruiser and previously owned a Harley VRod Muscle. I have recently been for some test rides on Harleys and Indians and all I can say is that the Harley's just do not compare to the Indians in any way, and the Indians are much much cheaper. I am definitely going with and Indian, either a Chief Bobber Dark Horse Bobber or a Scout Bobber. If the management at Harley are switched on, they should be very concerned.
I recently completed a video on top of the line tourers and I gotta say the Indians do seem to be a class above the Harleys, at least as far as the big tourers go.
One thing you don't think about unless you're a weirdo surf shark like me who looks into everything because internet! One thing is the number of people killed being struck by cars and motorcycles in the really early days of cars, motorcycles, and trolley cars all trying to figure out traffic. In our cities local death register for unusual deaths from 1890 on..toward the late 1910's and into the 20's there was a person being struck and killed everyday by cars and motorcycles..i wonder if the world picked up speed too fast for some people?
Overall, very nicely done documentary. Most HD fanatics (being just that) have no clue about their favorite brand's history. They tend to sugar coat that history and get highly offended when a bit of hard-stained truth is laid on them. It's great to be a fan of whatever manufacturer is your favorite, but take off the rose colored glasses ya HD fanboys. You asked who wins? We all do! I'm glad HD is still around. I'm glad Indian keeps rising from the ashes and putting out some great bikes in the 21st century. I wish Victory bikes were still in production. The one thing that HD fanatics don't understand is - the more, the merrier!
thanks for taking the time to give me some feedback mate. I totally agree about Victory, I owned one, it was one of the best bikes that I ever owned but I sold it as I didn't want to be stuck with a bike I couldn't get parts for. I've had a few people unsubscribe after watching this video, I assume the were HD fans and didn't watch it until the end.
@@motorcyclecafe I have an old Victory. It's a 2000 V92 Sport Cruiser. It has a big bored engine and a transmission from a 2005 V92. That thing just rips with muscle! Parts can be hard to get, but they're still out there.
@@motorcyclecafe That was one of their special looking beautiful bikes in my opinion. I'd love to have one. Especially the red/black paint scheme. But I'll just keep on wishing lol. Victory bikes were just an art form.
Clearly Harley won the last fight. Unfortunately, they’re getting too comfortable where they are now. Clearly, Round 2 has yet to be decided. Kinda rooting for Indian though.
The whole Indian v Harley debates and the HD haters really make me laugh, these people hate a machine so much they have to voice their hatred publicly on some format or other, if you dont like it, dont buy it, buy something else and love that. Very rare that you will hear a Harley rider hating on another brand, although I will say I will never own another Honda, ever again, but I dont hate on them, I just ignore them. I've owned Harleys (among other brands) for over 30 years and never had an issue with them, had plenty of issues with the dealerships though, so much so that I wont buy anything from them. HD after sales manner is awful, they want your money and then you can piss off. Indian is apparently suffering the cancel culture issue of racial appropriation from what I heard, the results of which could prove interesting, and although they were founded before HD we all know the story, amazing how Victory morphed into Indian as soon as the brand name became available, and how ironic that they build a bike in the style of HD, not very original of them.
Great documentary. I just got a Super Chief Limited with the 116 in Metallic black. I checked out some Harleys and liked them also but I'm the kind of guy that just has to be different, roots for the underdog, etc. So the Indian was the best fit. All great bikes though, the more companies making motorcycles the better!
I totally agree buddy. All bikes are good bikes. Thanks for giving me some feedback
Totally! I always support the underdog. And Indian has not disappointed. I've got an 2022 Indian Pursuit and 2023 FTR Carbon
thanks for the vid and information! will say defiantly worth subscribing!! cant wait to see more!
Your welcome buddy, it's a bit of an eye opener ay? All those people trying to cash in on the Indian name especially!!!
Really enjoyed this side-by-side walk throught the history of these titans!
Wow! Great video mate! Thanks a million!
Awesome, thanks for your great feedback its very much appreciated. The history of both brands is amazing ay?
Brilliant piece of informative and interesting video work- Thanks heaps!!!
Excellent buddy, I'm glad that you enjoyed it. Thanks for taking the time to give me some nice feedback too!
Awesome video. Great perspective and factual information on the history of these two makers.
Thanks mate!
I read the book on the founding 4 of HD ... it was a very interesting read ... HD nearly went bankrupt during the great depression and they were also very anti semetic, but it was a jew who had changed his name to get a job at the factory.... but the biggest surprise in the book was that both CEO's of Indian & HarleyDavidson would meet in secret once a year at a New York Hotel and monopolize the motorcycle market by setting prices and dealerships to keep out other manufacturers.... its an eye opener of a read ...
Just got my first Harley-Davidson a clean 1994 FXDWG Dyna Wide Glide with the Evo 80. Have hardly ridden it yet, I want to change out the tires and it seriously needs the new carburetor that was installed by the previous owner to be tuned.
Even though I'm a Harley-Davidson owner, the Indian line is awesome and Hence would be proud..
Great video, didn't know thar harley was owned by amf for some time (like indian is owned by polaris now). Somehow this is a big deal for some people. Both have their advantages. HD with their big dealership, lots of custom parts and Indian with their design and technique (ride command+). The seat in harleys was more comfortable, but the (stock) sound on Indian and also the gearbox is much better. So after driving 2 harleys, i got stuck on an indian chief dark horse.
Ducati is owned by Volkwagon lol. All companies change ownership eventually I guess. Thanks for the positive feedback!
That was most likely the best put together doco that i😮have seen. I've had 2 Indians with my second that imhave had since 2018.. the first Road Master Elite, absolutely love it. 115000klms is testament to that.. the 111 is a master piece.. Great video well done.
thank you mate for your kind words! I really do appreciate you taking the time to comment.
Indian and Harley Davidson both my favourite
Great video! I just started on the Honda monkey a year ago and this upcoming weekend I'm getting an Indian Scout Rogue! I've checked out many different brands of bikes and the Indian Scout felt the best in my opinion for what I was looking for!
Excellent buddy, I'm glad you enjoyed it and I'm sure you will love the Indian! There's a couple doco's about Burt Munro on the channel you might enjoy too. Bit of a step up from a Monkey to a Scout, ride safe mate!
I was a salesperson at a new Indian dealership in Texas from late 2014 to mid 2016. It was an interesting time. The Indian brand under Polaris really came out swinging. There were a lot of standard features included for the price, which would have been an additional upgrade to add onto a comparable model from Harley-Davidson. (I.e. standard 111 ci motor, cruise control, remote locking bags, LED lamps, real leather seats, and more.) That alone sold many people on the brand in those early years. I'm not sure how they stack up these days, but I think the Indian brand has its best shot under current ownership than it's ever had since 1953. Very well done video, too. Cheers!
I 100% agree with your comments buddy and thank you for the positive feedback too ! Cheers
Love the story ❤ I will not ever own either of these two brands but I can appreciate the information presented.
great vid mate cheers.
What a great video 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it buddy, thanks for the feedback
Started riding HD motorcycles in ‘82. Wanted a bagger so in 2019 switched to the Indian Chieftain dark horse. 67yrs old now still love both American motorcycle brands. May end up on a smaller scout or soft tail slim as my last ride
Its good to read your not biased both are exc brands. Brand bashing, unless just in jest between mates, is one thing I do not like.
Excellent documentary!
Good to learn the thunderstoke 111 has been in constant use since 2013 by Indian. Looks and sounds like a true testament to the reliability of the design.
Thank you for your research and time to make and post this great information.
Jeez mate, thank you for taking the time to give me such great feedback. It truly means a lot that some viewers do make the effort. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
@@motorcyclecafe you're welcome. 🍺
Now days it seems as though people have forgotten how to give credit where credit is due.
Made by Polaris.
Never owned either but Dad did so I enjoyed the history lesson. Saved to watch again 👍
Great video!
Thank You Buddy!!!
As a proud owner of a stunning 2019 Indian Springfield in steel gray and metallic burgundy, it is Cruiser Heaven, all day, every day. All the new Indians have something for everyone, and are worthwhile bikes to own. Very competitive to and more often exceeds Harleys in suspension, engine, and new tech.
I agree. I went to the dealership specifically for a 2019 Springfield but ended up getting the chieftain instead.
Indian really lacks the after market support. And I also thought that going with Indian, add ons were not as expensive as Harley. Boy was I wrong.
Cheers mate, I pretty much like all bikes. Some rich history with these two brands!
@@grantchristiansen8432 Yeah, accessories are at a premium price, but with some judicious bits, I've been able to make my Springfield stand out a little. I get a lot of compliments on it at bike gatherings. If it was just another black Harley, you have to spend a ton just to make it stand out from all the other black Harleys, so there's that. Gotta alove that TS111 engine though, it's a jewel. I do love the Chieftain as well, especially the old classic retro style like my Springfield. I like all the Indian models but wish Indian would keep both new and retro styles for all the big bikes. I think there's room for both.
@@motorcyclecafe Yeah, one of everything would suit me just fine, the wife won't hear of it though. (sigh)
the problem with Indian is the dealerships, lack of service, lack of modification, little to no aftermarket, ive had Indian's along the way and while they are cosmetically good looking bikes they have the Toyota cheap plastic feel to them which is why i sold mine. Today i am the proud oner of a 2009 Harley Rocker C, 2014 Harley Dyna Wide Glide and 2021 Harley Street Glide, no matter what i want to do to any of my Harley's there are cosmetic and performance upgrades pretty much anywhere.
Well put together although a little misleading at the beginning concerning the first motordromes. Harley never competed in the steep short versions or so called ‘murderdromes’, they started competing later in the longer, flatter board tracks. Excelsior was Indians rival in the murderdromes.
@@glennb9535 thanks my research at the time was correct and pedantic. But who really knows for sure? Appreciate the feedback buddy, very much so. Cheers!
Very Interesting History and facts .. Sounds to be accurate...
Glad u enjoyed it, yes it's accurate although techically speaking Indian didn't actually go bankrupt they just closed the doors and stopped production.
Great Doco.
Never really been into Harley Davidsons that much.
But I am starting to get closer to that age when my Suzuki GSEXR is becoming a little uncomfortable to ride ??
That and the fact I work plenty of hours a week in my own business.
This usually means I am borderline knacked when I have free time to Enjoy a ride, LOL.
Adding to that pain, is the amount times I have come off second best when cars take me out of action ??
The Joys of Riding a Bike 🙄
But I'm Not alive unless I have Bike in my Garage ready for a ride when the world is getting the better of me ??
I see a few bikes here that would be Good to own.
The Ever Popular 1958 HD Duo Glide
( many times seen this bike in a movie or 2 )
A Nice Classic 1948 HD FL. That would be great to have in the Garage.
( Perfect for a Weekend Ride )
And of course at least 1 Indian to add to the list ?
2002 Indian Chief. Beautiful looking bike.
( what a shame it was not a very reliable engine, but I'm sure that could be improved upon with some reworking )
Just some food for thought as it comes time to think about a Bike to replace my current ride.
Thanks for your positive feedback buddy! I dont think it would matter now if you bought a 20 yr old Indian 20 or indeed a shovelhead harley as any issues would be sorted out by now. I dont think shovels were as bad as they made out, sure they need a bit of attention but thats all part of ownership i reckon. I am similar to you, I ride a Ducati, plenty of people bag out Harleys but they obviously have never had one! They have plenty of power etc... All bikes are cool in my opinion.
@@motorcyclecafe
Totally Agree.
All Bikes are Cool.
Unless you have ridden a bike in your life.
You could never understand how Good it feels to Ride a Bike.
I only feel bad for the Guys who gave up bikes in their late 20's or early 30's to concentrate on starting a Family then came back in their late 40's to early 50's and start riding again ??
Some of these Guys get a huge fright, to find out Bikes are more powerful and Car Drivers are Less forgiving ????
Seen a few Guys on this path.
Now their Children are off their hands.
They are all cashed up, and ready to go out and buy another bike again ??
Only later to find out, they are Not 22 Years Old anymore ??
I won't say to much more about what happens next.
I don't want to scare everyone off Bikes, LOL.
Thanks for your reply.
Really Enjoyed watching the video.
And stay SAFE out there too 👍
great , maybe you could do a follow up , Buell, Porcshe, Victory.
Ive owned a Victory what a great bike it was. But whats with the porsche comment buddy i dont get it
doc a few points from Harley for only being able to survive because of government interventions during Regan. They got points in the 80's synthetically.
Nice history lesson. While i haven't owned either brand, i keep up with what they are both up to and if i had to choose my next bike might possibly be an Indian to compliment my Victory
I had a Victory as well. What a shame they shut them down.
@motorcyclecafe it is. They were ahead of their time,still are in some respects.
I'm on my 3rd and dunno what I would replace it with if I had to
3:05 - 4:10 A little disappointed these historical points didn't translate to scoring points for Indian, as they had a clear advantage over Harley-Davidson:
1) raced 5 years ahead of HD
2) 1st to race internationally
3) had superior technology to ALL other motorcycles globally (chain drive and 2-speed transmission)
4) dominated completion - swept 1st-3rd place in 1911 Isle of Man TT.
5) 1913 sold 32K bikes or more than 2x over HD
These scoring omissions make your criterion somewhat suspect.
Other than their knucklehead and panhead introductions keeping HD competitive, HD was really saved by 1) Indian's demise in 1953 and 2) the introduction of the Sportster in 1957, which addressed the threat of their new British competition. Oddly enough, most HD riders have disrespect for both Indian AND the Sportster. I love both.
And yet, even with the 1958 Duo Glide and 1965 Elecra Glide they soon collapsed (Japanese bikes and the 1966 shovelhead dug their grave) and were kept afloat by AMC.
Thanks for this documentary. You saved me lots of money on purchasing 1960s-1970s Indians - I couldn't figure out why their value was so low. NOW I know.
*edited for accuracy
Hi buddy, yes you correct in what you say, Indian were indeed a long way in front during the early years. I just did the scoring thing basically for a bit of fun not for anything meaningful. Both brands have earned their place in history I believe.
Motorcycle fan here. My pops had a VStar Roadstar (very comfortable bike), road king and currently drives a cross country tour converted into a trike. I do feel like you skipped over a few years of Harley. It is interesting to see the accomplishments early on in Indian history vs Harley. After their demise, you could almost give a point to Harley every year after they came out with a new bike. They pretty much dominated until the thunderstroke.
I have a vegas 8-ball and a 2019 chieftain dark horse. Stock the indian is meh. Mine has a BBK116 with cam and tuner, high intake with Rinehart exhaust. Its a monster.
When looking for bikes, I sat on a lot of Harleys. I like them but most were too big for me. I was shocked to sit on a chieftain and feel how well proportioned it was (for me) and I could touch with minimal effort.
While I wanted to be in the HOG family, I just was not impressed with either Indian and Harley in the most recent designs. Nothing jumped out at me. I did see a cvo that I drooled over however the price tag was just way too much.
Chieftain is more my size but could have gone either way. And honestly, if I sat back and really thought about it, I might have gone with Harley just for the aftermarket support. I hope Indian catches up (why are there no nice saddle bag bra's!!)
Thanks for the doc!
Thanks for watching and the feedback. I may of skipped Harley a bit I didn't want to make it too long a watch, so I only covered the most important models. Indian were dominate in the early days but it gradually changed, from my research in the early day indian & harley hated each other, lol. I like both brands.
@@motorcyclecafe I am with you. It could be said that possible Indian is pulling ahead slightly now since Polaris. Most people do not realize that Polaris is an American company. And while both manufacturers source parts abroad (this is a US economic issue, not a brand issue) it is said that Indian is more American than Harley these days. I like both brands. A lot. My buddy has an 88 (soft tail? Dyna?) carbureted and the sound could just put me to sleep.
You get the thumbs up from me. CHEERS
Why thank you buddy !!!
Like most documentaries on HD/AMF You gave Willie G's buy back credit for the EVO. The Evo was in development along with CNC machinery brought in by AMF, that saved the Motor Company. I know it is "HIP" to bad mouth AMF but even Willie G admitted to the AMF contribution's success.
Hi of course you are correct and even though under AMF Harley Davidson did suffer many quality problems AMF did in fact save the company. Without them I doubt Hartley Davidson would exist today. Appreciate you taking the time to comment. Thanks
I learned quite a bit. It's nice to finally know what AMF Harley's are. I always liked the look of their bikes, turns out they're not even really Harleys..lol
They are still Harleys, willie davidson was still a designer. Although amf did cause damage they probably saved their ass in the late 60s.
@@motorcyclecafe Correct! AMF Harleys are STILL Harleys. Funny Story: As a kid, I had an AMF Roadmaster bicycle. I used to say I had a Harley AND a Buick! LOL.
I once had a 1974 FLH I rode it hard and never did it leak oil except the push rod seals, I worked out how to stop this, it had shit brakes so I worked out how to fix this. I also wore many footboards away. Talk about poor stopping I had a 40 Indian Chief its front brake was an ornament but I learnt to overcome this , my mates who rode Triumph, Norton and Harley were surprised how fast it was but I could ride well. I have owned so many motorcycles in my 71 years I have to try remember them all. a sweet running Commando is up there with the best..
In those old days you had to be part mechanic and rider, something which is sadly disappearing.
I tried out a scout bobber and a low rider. Bought the low rider made the scout feel like a toy by comparison.
Yer I like the Scouts but there are so low with very poor cornering clearance. I like both brands, all bikes actually. Thanks for taking the time to comment your thoughts.
Great Vid, mate! 👍🏻👍🏻
Glad you enjoyed it!!!
I had two uncles after the Korean War they became motor officers for the City of New York. One was a die-hard Indian fan the other was a die-hard Harley fan. Even when the two of them were in their 90's they would get drunk at holiday get-togethers and insult each other's motorcycles and would end up in the driveway pounding The Living Daylights out of each other leaving blood all over the snow while my aunts would be standing on the stoop saying dinner is getting cold are you done yet? They rode their Motors all through the winter. I had an uncle who work for NBC in New York he would take the big cans of film to the developer and sit in the bar across the street until the boy came and got him to tell him that the film was developed. He put a sidecar on the bike in the winter so he would not fall down and go boom. That's why in the old days the TV would say film at 6 or film at 11 because it had to be developed. He kept telling me when they throw dirt in my face you get my scooter but my aunt sold the bike at a lowball price and included the sidecar as well. Both of my uncles would teach me limericks bad-mouthing the other bikes. Had enough trouble with your Indian chief wants some more by an Indian four. Harley-Davidson made of tin ride them out and push them in. Fine Indian made of steel twist her grip and make her tires squeal. Never in doubt by an Indian Scout. Indian and Harley Davidson hated each other the same way BSA and Triumph hated each other. But that is another story.
That is a very cool story mate and I have no doubt it's 100% true. The Harley and Indian rivalry goes way back to the early days. Have you seen the series 'Harley & the Davidsons' ?
When I saw "War" in the title, I thought you would get into WWII for these companies. From what I understand, the US Government, before the war (during the Great Depression), put out specs for motorcycles they wanted. 650cc engine was one of them. Indian made their bikes to the Government specs. Harley just sent one of their 750cc bikes. If Harley couldn't meet the specs, they shouldn't have been allowed into the competition. Obviously, the 750cc beat out the 650cc bikes. Harley made the majority of the bikes for the US, and Indian sent theirs overseas. US Servicemen, returning after the war, were more exposed to Harley - I believe THAT was one of the biggest things that did in Indian.
U know Harley sold their design to the Japanese before the war and the Japanese produced Rikuo bikes which were actually Harleys and used them during the 2nd world war. So in fact Harley Davidson contributed to the Japanese War effort. I didnt mention this in the video because a lot of people do not like the truth.
As a proud owner of a stunning 2019 Indian Scout Bobber in white smoke, I walked into a Harley dealership by accident then walked out. Indian far surpasses the badge and bar bikes
Thanks for you comment mate. I sit on the fence, I like both brands & pretty much all bikes. But the new Indians are very nice indeed.
LOL, its actually the Bar & Shield
I had the opposite experience, when i walk into a Harley dealership i am greeted and offered assistance and give the space to look around if i want it.
At Indian there was very people in the dealership yet still ignored by the staff
I am a proud owner of a 2009 Harley Rocker C, 2014 Harley Dyna Wide Glide and 2021 Harley Street Glide
Ive had a couple Indian's along the way and always sold them off, felt very plastic kinda like getting into a Toyota, just that overall cheap feeling
Pretty cool video but some glaring omissions & inaccuracies
I did the best that I could do
Something I think would would be interesting is the Indian head symbol on their gas tank if Indian cane before Harley Davidson then their Indian head should be patented which in my. Opinion is similar to the Hells Angels patch which is also patented would it be patent infringment..
I don't think anyone would try to steal either design. The Indian logo has changed many times since 1901 too.
I'm in the market for a cruiser and previously owned a Harley VRod Muscle. I have recently been for some test rides on Harleys and Indians and all I can say is that the Harley's just do not compare to the Indians in any way, and the Indians are much much cheaper. I am definitely going with and Indian, either a Chief Bobber Dark Horse Bobber or a Scout Bobber. If the management at Harley are switched on, they should be very concerned.
I recently completed a video on top of the line tourers and I gotta say the Indians do seem to be a class above the Harleys, at least as far as the big tourers go.
At least the new Sportster can now compete with the scout.
It can for sure.
Cheers mate. Indians are in, but only buy a Harley. Only Harley is real. Indian is a resurrected relic. Harley is continuous. That's the measure.
Imagine watching all these advancements and improvements at that time, amazing
yes they changed quickly in those days, it made obtaining the correct specs quite difficult.
Indian forever. Harley for looks
One thing you don't think about unless you're a weirdo surf shark like me who looks into everything because internet! One thing is the number of people killed being struck by cars and motorcycles in the really early days of cars, motorcycles, and trolley cars all trying to figure out traffic. In our cities local death register for unusual deaths from 1890 on..toward the late 1910's and into the 20's there was a person being struck and killed everyday by cars and motorcycles..i wonder if the world picked up speed too fast for some people?
Interesting comment, riders didnt wear much gear in the old days.
RIP Harley Davidson and Indian.
Overall, very nicely done documentary. Most HD fanatics (being just that) have no clue about their favorite brand's history. They tend to sugar coat that history and get highly offended when a bit of hard-stained truth is laid on them. It's great to be a fan of whatever manufacturer is your favorite, but take off the rose colored glasses ya HD fanboys.
You asked who wins? We all do! I'm glad HD is still around. I'm glad Indian keeps rising from the ashes and putting out some great bikes in the 21st century. I wish Victory bikes were still in production. The one thing that HD fanatics don't understand is - the more, the merrier!
thanks for taking the time to give me some feedback mate. I totally agree about Victory, I owned one, it was one of the best bikes that I ever owned but I sold it as I didn't want to be stuck with a bike I couldn't get parts for. I've had a few people unsubscribe after watching this video, I assume the were HD fans and didn't watch it until the end.
@@motorcyclecafe I have an old Victory. It's a 2000 V92 Sport Cruiser. It has a big bored engine and a transmission from a 2005 V92. That thing just rips with muscle! Parts can be hard to get, but they're still out there.
@@ZildjianMan30 one of the real early ones ay. Mine was a 2015 Hammer S, I loved that bike 😔
@@motorcyclecafe That was one of their special looking beautiful bikes in my opinion. I'd love to have one. Especially the red/black paint scheme. But I'll just keep on wishing lol. Victory bikes were just an art form.
@@ZildjianMan30 i think some of their styling was a bit ahead of its time. Like the Ducati 999 and some others.
Clearly Harley won the last fight. Unfortunately, they’re getting too comfortable where they are now.
Clearly, Round 2 has yet to be decided.
Kinda rooting for Indian though.
Motorcycle companies need to have motorcycle people in control. Harley has lost the plot a little lately.
well since Indian has been gone since 53, i'd say Harley won that battle. Now we have victory/polaris with Indian stickers on em.
The whole Indian v Harley debates and the HD haters really make me laugh, these people hate a machine so much they have to voice their hatred publicly on some format or other, if you dont like it, dont buy it, buy something else and love that. Very rare that you will hear a Harley rider hating on another brand, although I will say I will never own another Honda, ever again, but I dont hate on them, I just ignore them. I've owned Harleys (among other brands) for over 30 years and never had an issue with them, had plenty of issues with the dealerships though, so much so that I wont buy anything from them. HD after sales manner is awful, they want your money and then you can piss off.
Indian is apparently suffering the cancel culture issue of racial appropriation from what I heard, the results of which could prove interesting, and although they were founded before HD we all know the story, amazing how Victory morphed into Indian as soon as the brand name became available, and how ironic that they build a bike in the style of HD, not very original of them.
I think only people that have never owned or ridden a harley hate them.
Sorry, I can’t stand British accent, bye
I'm Australian
@@motorcyclecafe at least he didn't call you a Kiwi.....hahaha. I'm South African.
@@63mymojo sorry buddy, I can't understand you, i can't stand the South African accent! 😉