I have been looking for the same and haven't found many. And the price goes up. Creative Mark has one with a !' linen, then the wood frame. Traditional colors, gold, silver, brown....@@BeckerArt
Thanks for the information. I made the mistake of gluing my paper to a gator board and then plein air painting......it was a damp, misty morning and by the time I was done it was a mushy mess of glue and paint. Lesson learned to glue on board after painting. Gator board is too expensive to waste. I'll be interested to see if Holbeins aluminum panel is similar to the Raymar panels and if competition will drive down prices. Raymar panels are nice but expensive. I'll probably try Holbein's panel to compare.
That's Legion Paper panels, Holbein makes the acrylic gel medium. I have tested the legion panels and I tried everything possible to get the paper away from the board, nothing worked. the yupo paper that is also glue to their board I pour boiling water on and used a stripping gun and both did nothing to the panel or yupo paper. It to will be more expensive but the quality is amazing.
Thank you for this information. Can I ask you how someone tests for the acidic quality of a glue? I was wondering how I could test other glues like elmers white glue?
@@BeckerArt there are marker pens for testing board, paper, and wood. For liquids like glue, I add baking soda to a small sample of glue. If it foams up, it’s an acid. I did this with an Elmer’s and a ModPodge glue, they foamed up like a science project. The only acid-free ModPodge glue listed on Plaid’s website is the “Paper” formulation.
I am all for using the most economical supplies to get the job done right. Normal PVA glue (elmers and such) was a great invention. Purely synthetic and widely available but it is not acid free or "PH neutral" To make it acid free a few molecules need to be tweeked with when manufacturing. Yes, they are charging more for acid free but not much. So I think best to just spend extra to buy the ones marked as acid free. Lineco, booking binding PVA glue snd others. Modge podge has the paper one. I do remember school projects thaat overtime the glue turned yellow! Personally for what we are talking about here I like a gel or thicker medium so I have time to position and move a bit. These are still PVA but with additives to make them thicker. One additive is methyl cellulose. Not sure that is what Holbein or Golden use but probably. @@BeckerArt
This was a great video. Can you please share the sizes of what are considered standard size frames for these paneled pieces, especially for larger paintings like 22" x 30". Thanks so much.
Plexiglass I would use but I would be a little hesitant using glass to mount on... mostly because of the weight and the possibility that it can break easily
I would say yes but that is just a guess. I now use acrylic gel medium to glue my paper to any panel and the medium is supposed to protect from anything leaking into the paper.
Most are acid free panels and those that aren't the ph neutral and acid free glues take care of that. Some go as far as putting a coat of gesso over the masonite just to get an extra protection. Thanks for the question.
Golden Paint has done extensive testing on products for SID (substrate induced discoloration). They have produced several videos on their results and are very informative. According to Golden, Gesso does not provide protection but the Gloss Medium does. It is also important to provide UV protection since removing the glass also removes UV protection. Normal glass provides 40-50% UV filter, Art glass 70%, Anti reflective 92% and conservation 99%. Wax does not provide protection it is a finish only.. Gloss UVLS varnish can replace glass. 2-3 coats either spray or brush then you can use a wax finish or even a matt or satin UVLS top coat.
@@vallektz Thanks for this reply. Good to know about the gloss medium. I have heard that you should not use wax on top of any varnish because wax is not a covering like varnish, but instead binds with the pigment to protect it. If you put it on top of varnish it doesn't cure with the pigment and can't do its job of penetrating the pigment. The same cold wax is used with Caulk Paint for furniture but cold wax doesn't give you UV protection. So if UV is important to the artist then a UVLS varnish would be the way to go instead of cold wax.
I think it will probably flex too much for that size. I did a 11 x 14 and it curved a little after it dried. I t went back when I framed it but it definitely flexed.
Great information and so nicely put together, thank you!
Thank you for an awesome tutorial on backing panels, and how to use them.
Appreciate all this information
Hard to give up the look of the mat boarder around a watercolour. However great to eliminate the glass
I am starting to look for frames that have a matboard kind of look to them, like plein-air frames but with a modern look.
I have been looking for the same and haven't found many. And the price goes up. Creative Mark has one with a !' linen, then the wood frame. Traditional colors, gold, silver, brown....@@BeckerArt
Fantastic! I have found Holbeins acrylic gel medium works amazing to mount your paper to the board.
Thank you so much for this information David. 👍👍👍
Great info Thanks David!
Thanks for the information. I made the mistake of gluing my paper to a gator board and then plein air painting......it was a damp, misty morning and by the time I was done it was a mushy mess of glue and paint. Lesson learned to glue on board after painting. Gator board is too expensive to waste. I'll be interested to see if Holbeins aluminum panel is similar to the Raymar panels and if competition will drive down prices. Raymar panels are nice but expensive. I'll probably try Holbein's panel to compare.
That's Legion Paper panels, Holbein makes the acrylic gel medium. I have tested the legion panels and I tried everything possible to get the paper away from the board, nothing worked. the yupo paper that is also glue to their board I pour boiling water on and used a stripping gun and both did nothing to the panel or yupo paper. It to will be more expensive but the quality is amazing.
what is the source for the Legion Paper panels? I would like to check them out. Thx@@BeckerArt
@@vallektz they are brand new and still not on the market yet... hopefully they will be available at any art store in the next month or so.
🚨 0:30 “ModPodge Matte” is not necessarily the acid free option. You want “ModPodge PAPER“. I tested the other version and the ph was acidic.
Thank you for this information. Can I ask you how someone tests for the acidic quality of a glue? I was wondering how I could test other glues like elmers white glue?
@@BeckerArt there are marker pens for testing board, paper, and wood. For liquids like glue, I add baking soda to a small sample of glue. If it foams up, it’s an acid. I did this with an Elmer’s and a ModPodge glue, they foamed up like a science project. The only acid-free ModPodge glue listed on Plaid’s website is the “Paper” formulation.
I am all for using the most economical supplies to get the job done right. Normal PVA glue (elmers and such) was a great invention. Purely synthetic and widely available but it is not acid free or "PH neutral" To make it acid free a few molecules need to be tweeked with when manufacturing. Yes, they are charging more for acid free but not much. So I think best to just spend extra to buy the ones marked as acid free. Lineco, booking binding PVA glue snd others. Modge podge has the paper one. I do remember school projects thaat overtime the glue turned yellow! Personally for what we are talking about here I like a gel or thicker medium so I have time to position and move a bit. These are still PVA but with additives to make them thicker. One additive is methyl cellulose. Not sure that is what Holbein or Golden use but probably. @@BeckerArt
This was a great video. Can you please share the sizes of what are considered standard size frames for these paneled pieces, especially for larger paintings like 22" x 30". Thanks so much.
here is a video I did on that subject ua-cam.com/video/k3R3hKO__dU/v-deo.html
Thank you! What about aluminum board like Alumacomp?
Isn't plywood usually chemically treated? It's unlikely, but I wonder if that would affect the paper or glue long-term.
From the earlier replies it sounds like the best glue to use to prevent anything from seeping into the paper is the acrylic gel medium.
What about the glass that comes with the picture frame?
Plexiglass I would use but I would be a little hesitant using glass to mount on... mostly because of the weight and the possibility that it can break easily
Quick question: is plexy and pvc acid free?
I would say yes but that is just a guess. I now use acrylic gel medium to glue my paper to any panel and the medium is supposed to protect from anything leaking into the paper.
What about keeping what the paper touches acid free? Are these boards neutral or do the adhesives provide this?
Most are acid free panels and those that aren't the ph neutral and acid free glues take care of that. Some go as far as putting a coat of gesso over the masonite just to get an extra protection. Thanks for the question.
Golden Paint has done extensive testing on products for SID (substrate induced discoloration). They have produced several videos on their results and are very informative. According to Golden, Gesso does not provide protection but the Gloss Medium does. It is also important to provide UV protection since removing the glass also removes UV protection. Normal glass provides 40-50% UV filter, Art glass 70%, Anti reflective 92% and conservation 99%. Wax does not provide protection it is a finish only.. Gloss UVLS varnish can replace glass. 2-3 coats either spray or brush then you can use a wax finish or even a matt or satin UVLS top coat.
@@vallektz Thanks for this reply. Good to know about the gloss medium. I have heard that you should not use wax on top of any varnish because wax is not a covering like varnish, but instead binds with the pigment to protect it. If you put it on top of varnish it doesn't cure with the pigment and can't do its job of penetrating the pigment. The same cold wax is used with Caulk Paint for furniture but cold wax doesn't give you UV protection. So if UV is important to the artist then a UVLS varnish would be the way to go instead of cold wax.
ON the PVC ceiling tile, at what size (larger) do you find flexing? Do you think this is sturdy (non flex) for a 22x30?
My home depot does not have the Sintra. I see on the Amazon link the cut to size panels come in both 1/8 and 1/4. Which one did you try?
I think it will probably flex too much for that size. I did a 11 x 14 and it curved a little after it dried. I t went back when I framed it but it definitely flexed.
The 1/4" and it bent ever so slightly but bent all the same.@@vallektz