Here are his 20 TIPS Below. Great Job! 1. Mind the Hierarchy 2. Longstanding Relationships Matter 3. Finding Builders Takes Time 4. Cold Calling Doesn't Work 5. Two Key Connections a. Vendors (Painters and Sheetrock) b. Other subcontractors 6. Word of Mouth is Everything 7. Maintain a Positive Social Media Presence a. Facebook b. Instagram 8. Use Social Media for Front of Mine Presents 9. Overselling Equals insecurity 10. Let Others do Your Selling for you 11. Too Much Prim Donna is Bad 12. Try out Different Builders 13. Every job is your Super Bowl 14. Find the Builder you can Add Value 15. Always Maintain the Upper Hand in the Value Proposition a. Quality of Work b. Your Word and Delivery c. Keep an eye on the Jobsite d. Offer the Builder Feedback 16. Overcome Vulnerability with Financial Discipline 17. Be Confident in your Numbers and Value Offered 18. Mutual Financial Respect is Essential 19. Don't Underbid just to get your foot in the door 20. Ego will kill your business long term don't burn bridges
You’ve listed the Golden Rules of almost any buyer / supplier, contractor relationship. I’m retired from aerospace industry, worked 40 years with suppliers and contractors. Skilled, fair and honest will always be the keys to success.
Can absolutely confirm that when we follow up a good trim man to paint and he makes our job easy we ALWAYS let the main man know how good of a job he did
As a young man you have more wisdom than a lot of my subcontractors that have been in the business for decades I have been in the building business for over 50 years and dealing with subcontractors for about 30 of them and your spot on as far as having a relationship with a builder nothing I hate worse is for a contractor to work with one hand and hold the other one out wanting to be paid all while telling you how great They are Great video thanks
The wisdom that the Lord has given you at this stage of your life is nothing short of impressive. You have a bright future in front of you. Stay humble and be blessed.
Good presentation. As a GC in custom residential, I wholeheartedly agree with your point about adding value. Active foresight is key. Anticipating things and noticing loose ends or potential problems makes the work go smoothly. It also makes me look like I can see around corners with the client. Few things are more despised by a client than nasty surprises that cost additional time and money. When my subs make me look good and avoid surprises, I do everything I can to retain them and make sure they look forward to working on my site.
Spencer, English is not my mother tongue. However, its a pleasure to listen to you. Your idiom expressions are bright and very understandable at the same time. Thank you for your videos! I learn not only trimming but language as well)))
This probably is your most important video.... very very well done. I am well past 40 years in the trade, and your observations and advice are dead on. Pricing is still the elephant in the room....I await your video on what works for you.
Everything was great. I am an ornamental iron fabricator and we do existing and new construction. All of our builders were our greatest asset. We try to do the best work possible so they don’t want to use anyone else. We never were the cheapest but we give quality and service. Your reputation is everything
You're in my top 3 favorite people on youtube. You've got high quality content, and I would love to hear more about operating and interacting in the trades. Please do make more on that topic!
This is exactly what everyone needs to hear. Well done. I just hope that you are training young apprentices and not working alone as it seems. You’re a great teacher and sharer, keep up the good work.
Man your on it..all you said..but yeah the painter is probably the trade to work with..I always sand & fill if needed my scarf joints and outside corners..hate it when people say the painter will get it..they hate it when carpenters don’t tighten their work up..love this channel & thanks for sharing
Thank you for the video. I myself am trying to break into the market after a life change. One video I would like to see is an actual walk through of a house and work up of the bid. Thanks again. I enjoy your videos
Everything you have said is very true. I've been subcontracting for 25 years and experienced everything you talked about. I watch your videos to learn tips, tricks and knowledge. Excellent advice 👍
Been framing 35 yrs for 3 builders. Also own a deck company...easy to get started, forget all that stuff. 1) go to the office of all the builders, introduce yourself and ask if ANY work is available ( have pictures) 2) bid a fair price and tell them if they don't like the work, it's free.. period. 3) you work no matter the Weather 7 days a week and holidays till it's done.. This method worked for me and everyone I know in the trade. After you establish yourself as the best and loyal, then price can go up...
Your work and mistakes framing get completely hidden permanently, and nobody follows you around with a laser holding you to a 1/16 standard on every board of every wall. You guys have plenty of challenges, but permanent physical presentation is not one of them, and the problems you make for the trim, cabinet and Millwork guys rarely if ever cost you work, or even get brought up.
Hey Spenser . Dirk here from Ontario Canada. Just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your no nonsense down to earth videos . Good job ,keep it up . I’m sure this content is a benefit to many guys like myself. God bless .
Wish I could give this an all caps thumbs up! I am a remodeling contractor and have never worked for builders but the same rules apply. Especially those about hubris and valuing yourself. I really appreciate someone who says to make yourself valuable by giving everything you have to a job. It’s your own work and attitude that will stand on display at the end of every project. Make sure it’s good and let others praise it by telling someone else about it while you aren’t there. It’s the greatest compliment you can receive.
Absolutely agree on the building of relationships and not burning bridges or talking negativity about other builders or tradesmen. Great video and thank you for your integrity. Wishing you well, Spencer.
Hi Spencer, I’m about to move to North Carolina and start again. I’ve done well in Chicago but the high cost of living, higher taxes, colder weather and care less people make it stressful. I have to build a reputation all over again. I cringed at some of the points you made because they resonate as true to me. Word of mouth, a slow steady approach are what have always worked for me, but I want to pick up the phone and cold call or show up on their doorstep and brag my way into some work. I saved this video to my favorites and will play it if I get discouraged trying to start all over again at 59. Thanks for keeping your standards high, being a craftsman and sharing your experience ! I hope you have a great 2020, thank you !!
J Dawes Spent half of year last year in Pinehurst NC. Many retirees moving to the state and as I see the need for competent contractors. Good luck in a beautiful state. Btw, The winters there are like April in Chicago.
Hey I was “Like” 1000!!! That ll never happen again in my life. Love how you are spreading the love out here too man. Great installs and tips all around.
Awesome video! I always enjoy your videos and your humble spirit. You have a lot of strong quality's and skill's that could make it easy to be braggadocios, but you are a pleasure to watch and learn from. I personally am looking forward to more videos like this. Thank you, Klein Carpentry
One of the best videos you have done to date.The business understanding is something that many great tradesmen lack.You do great service to help others reach their potential.Always a shame to see someone with talent not benefit because of lack of understanding.Cheers.
Great video again, as you always post. I have recently gone back to a one man show after a few years with a helper. You helped me to realize that I was still able to do large custom trim jobs and cabinet builds by myself. I had lost a little of that, and now I am enjoying my profession again as a business owner, and being the only one to worry about, and to just do what I do to make customers, and my builders happy. Thank you for your constant insight into all things in the interior trim world, and as a sole business owner. I always love to see that you have posted a new topic and video., to enjoy and learn from.
Glad to hear you got the fire back. Its a bad deal when we loose the joy in our work. Staying on the path that is best for each individual requires a lot of introspection and its not one size fits all. I definitely realized that "getting big" wasn't going to be the thing that fulfilled me, but instead was going to make me miserable and live in a constant headache.
@@InsiderCarpentry You hit the nail on the head, my love for my craft is what is important, and I wouldn't have it any other way! Keep up your great content, it is wonderful
Excellent content and very insightful. Most of your points apply much wider than construction subcontracting. I do a lot of subcontract work as a software consultant and much of what you mention here is directly applicable to my industry as well. Truth, character, trust, integrity and high quality work go a long way in subcontractor relationships.
Great tips. Navigating the sub contractor world now. Just moved to a new area, so I'm feeling it out. Really appreciate your channel great content. Keep it up! Thank you!!!!
My spin on the ego thing. Generally speaking, ego is a young man's problem that tends to come from an excessive amount of pride. While there's nothing inherently wrong with being satisfied with a job well done, sometimes the client or the contractor may not be doling out the cookies we feel we deserve, and our ego gets bruised. This usually goes away after time, because we figure out we are our own best client and our own harshest critic, and if we know we've done the best job we can then that's all the praise we need. Filtering things through your ego is just a waste of energy. If only I knew this when I was younger!
Great points. Love hearing your perspective. Good quality information. I can attest to having that emergency fund. I moved to a new area and had that emergency find plus a little bit more and it kept me from going insane. I started my own contracting/remodeling business and actually never dipped into the emergency fund. I was very blessed to have people make connections for me and was able to work with another contractor while I was getting started.
I've been wanting to get a website up also. Facebook was big for me when I was getting started. Now I just upload finished job photos to facebook and that's my "website".
@@InsiderCarpentry , If it's facebook or a website, I think the important thing is just to have a place for potential customers to see your work. I don't have any text other than my contact information. Like you say, telling people how good you are doesn't really work in your favor. Just let your work speak for itself.
Love it man! You hit the nail on the head! These principles are pretty much tried and true on running any successful business. Great stuff! Keep up the great work!
This reminds me of why I stopped working for custom home builders. I’ve been a finish carpentry for 35 years my first 10 years doing new construction out here in California. Builders try to cram every trade in a home simultaneously. Everybody’s work would get ruined by one another. They all try to delay paying you as long as they can, and sometimes they never do. What ended it for me, was when 15 homes we provided finish carpentry with material became bank owned in the early 90s. I lost a lot and I would never do new construction without a voucher for the work I was going to perform. I really appreciate your content and your workmanship! It always seems like you have the whole construction site to yourself that‘s definitely not be California.
Thanks for the video, all very interesting. I'm doing general carpentry work at the moment but thanks to you, I'm thinking of specialising in finish carpentry. The accuracy and attention to detail appeals to me.
Enjoyed your perspectives on the different aspects; however, I would to know how you determine fair price and mutual value with a builder. Do you walk the floor plan or do you bid on the plans / square footage? How do you handle special features or change orders? When do you have the conversation with a familiar builder that you warrant a price increase? Thanks I really appreciate your candidness and professionalism.
Pricing is so subjective to you and your business. How much overhead do you have? Are you slammed with work or starving? Are you a loss leader or the premium/industry wiz? What area do you live in? What are the contractors in your area charging? How confident are you in your pricing? How desperate are they? lol. As for value, it comes in all forms. That's where building relationships comes in. Sometimes it's things that make their life easier, or solved a problem they have.
It's not complicated..your overthinking, which tells me you don't have the skills or confidence to do the job. . You have to bid the whole job. Figure out how many days it will take you. How much it will cost you to do the job, materials and your helpers. Then how much do you want to make for that job for yourself...it's not hard.
Great video. Really enjoyed your thoughts. As a carpenter turned builder in Australia I really appreciated hearing you collated your advice in to a well thought out video
Thanx for this one. When I became self employed the relationship/network portion is one that went untaught throughout my school experience. It is one of the most if not the most besides skill level things. Thanx and best one to you.
Thanks for posting this. I'm two years into my business and am just landing my first new build contract (normally I work directly for homeowners). I think I naturally was already doing a lot of this but your opinion gives a lot of weight and guidance for how to keep heading down the right path. I would NOT have thought about the social media avenue for this. I've been scratching my head on where to go to meet these builders recently. This contract came about because I volunteered on a build. Never in a million years would I have thought that a year later I would be landing my best contract yet because of a few days of volunteering as a framer (not my trade).
It's all about connections. Builders are looking for good people. Sometimes its only a matter of making a personal connection to get your foot in the door.
I cant agree with you more. I have been slowly making the transition from working directly for homeowners, to working exclusively for builders and Gc’s. It took a while but I am now working almost exclusively for 4 different builders as a trim carpenter. All of of my contacts have been made through personal relationships or through the lumberyard. Instagram has helped by giving the Builder a platform to see my work before I even step foot on his job. It was not an easy transition but it has been a rewarding one.
Very well said brother. One thing I would add (which ties into your point on ego) is that a subcontractor, or an established finish carpenter should never talk bad about your local competition in the trade. I've gained many customers do to customers getting put off by others saying negative things about other contractors trying to make themselves look good. Like you said, "let your work speak for itself" Keep up the great work and videos. Any good finish carpenters in NY looking for work, hit me up.... LOL
100% agree. Its a temptation to do so but it’s detrimental to everyone and only shows insecurity. Even if something is true and it’s a negative comment to someone or their work quality, it’s best just to refrain from commenting if it’s a competitor.
Super helpful! My biggest issue as a custom sub contract cabinet installer is convincing builders and cabinet shops not to think of and treat me like a hourly employee whenever it’s convenient for them. My job is to show up on time, with a good attitude and fully prepared to do a good job..... on a site that’s fully ready for me to install product that is all there ready to be installed. In 15 years I have 100% punctuality track record and rarely make costly mistakes. But I can not get them to respect my position when I show up to 95% (not exaggerated) of the jobs on time to find the product 1/2 don and the site not ready. And no matter what approach I’ve taken to explain that this 3 day job now taking me 5-6 for no fault of my own has cost me significantly. I can’t convince them in that moment not to think of me as an hourly guy that shouldn’t be complaining. Because In all my years I’ve never achieved a bit of progress in this area. 3-4x in the last year I’ve suggested to a few shops that I need to backcharge for this wasted time, without actually doing it and it’s still achieved nothing. The absolute nature of having no progress at all only convinces me that actually back charging would only hurt the relationship.
People will not care until it costs THEM somethings. This is the reality of the business. They key is that you have to be so valuable, and so irreplaceable, that when you DO backcharge them they have no choice but to pay for your wasted time and in turn they will change their approach logistically because they know they will be getting a bill if your time is wasted. I give a grace period but its a fine line and you have to go with your gut on each situation. Generally for the first offence I'll eat it financially but I'll bring their awareness to the issue and tell them what needs to change. Second time that my time is wasted I HAVE TO charge them for the time. If its not costing them something they simply won't care. They have too many other things to worry about. The backcharge is the key to getting their attention. The other alternative, when you know that change isn't going to happen realistically you need to just factor the wasted time into your quotes and pad them enough that you're just absorbing the waste but still getting paid for it.
I enjoy watching all your videos and how to tutorials. your a great finish carpenter and now I see your on point with your business practices as well. keep the videos coming. looking forward to the next.
Great video! As a younger guy trying to find my place in the industry I find a lot of value in videos like this one. Something that is not outlined enough in this industry is how to go about doing business and earning a good living. Any advice or insight on how you structure your business would be a great topic for future videos.
You have quality points unfortunately for me the area around me is ate up with greedy builders and illegal workers that under price thanks for sharing your knowledge and work
James Tyler that’s the problem here in California exactly Can’t compete with that pricing no matter how poor quality work they do it’s all bout the price
Hello. (I don't know your name, but have watched several videos) I have been a trim carpenter for over 30 yrs and still have picked up some valuable info from you and your channel. One thing that I am curious about though. You say you work alone. Have you ever thought of partnering up on some larger jobs with another One man operator? I do this with a few different people and it allows us to tackle larger jobs. Plus you always have a second set of hands when needed. For the business aspect: 1 guy signs the job contract. The other "Partner" gets paid as a sub-contractor. Both people carry insurance and licenses etc. In the end, we make a little more money because 2 or 3 working together can tackle a proportionately larger project. BTW, Love the channel. Keep up the good work. Keith Rhoda
Can you do a video on pricing? You don't have to get into specific numbers, more looking for ratios $20 for a door $30 for a bedroom and closet of baseboard (2005 prices). Also what about contracts? Does each house have a price on the contract, or do you add the piece rate up after the house and the builder just agrees to pay it with a handshake. Thanks.
stan theman people don’t go to Walmart and pick up a TV and shake the cashiers hand telling them they will pay when they get home. If the options there for the guy to rip you off.. always set a detailed contract to somewhat protect yourself
If it is not on paper, it never happened. You can have a contract attorney write a basic contract to meet your needs for a reasonable price. It is worth the piece of mind. Insure each job as an LLC. (Limited liability company). This will protect your assets and keep any potential action against your entire personal worth. That's my take: CYA
Jo Zen after any disaster there are those crooks that crash, cash and dash!! People are desperate and not thinking clearly and really just don't have a clue--fertile ground for easy money. During Harvey in Houston, we mucked a ton of houses where you could squeeze water out of the mud plates by stepping on them; and contractors were dry walling over that--instant mold!! But they had the insurance money and kept on...
Great subject! I would love to hear more on the business side of our trade. Your channel is one of only three that I contribute to via patreon. Thanks again!
Very cool video! I'm a new builder. So seeing your vid on this is pretty cool, helps me out on my end of things. I wish all subs had wisdom like this, all I get are the primadonnas that try to do the shittiest/fastest work and squeeze the builder for payment.
As a interior trim guy the way I made myself Irreplaceable with my Builder is if they call me back to house to repair something or to change something small from faults on their end I don't charge them. They called me and told me that they needed me to move the pull down staircases in 3 different houses in one subdivision and they needed to know what I would charge. I told them nothing just have the superintendent there to help me get the pull down staircases down safely. By the end of the week everyone from the subcontractors to their staff employees knew who I was. I don't have a company logo on my truck or my t-shirts I don't even have a business card all of my advertisement is Word of Mouth
I definitely did more of that a few years ago. I have kind of a different policy. When mistakes happen I will eat it the first time because we all make mistakes and I want them to have grace with me in the event I ever make a mistake. BUT, the thing I have found is that if a mistake doesn't cost someone something it will never get addressed. So after I eat something once, or even twice, I'll charge enough to make it hurt after that to make sure the issue gets addressed.
Thanks for the information. I have been trying to get my foot in the door with builders in my area and it is difficult to get your name out there. Great video
Alot of substance! As a custom cabinetmaker,l have seen my old boy contractors(loyal tough guys),start dropping out of the trade for a variety of reasons. So I have had to make the shift from a fab/installer into a supply only vendor as it has been hard to hold interest of workers with installation talents. I know I dont need all the work in town,but to keep a business profitable there must be work and cash flow,in other words accounts. Accounts are maintained through relationships,so by design this will start to take you out of the Residential/homeowner market towards solid relationships with contractors and be picky about the residential/homeowner projects I take on. Through this corona virus we have. developed a clear view with the types of clients I am comfortable taking on,but relation ships and performance along with quality are keys.Stay humble and dont over talk or over sell,don't under dress or over dress.l mention that because I felt I lost a high end job because I went to a meeting( that was a meet and greet closer)with beat up sneakers,and a paint Staines company shirt at the end of a day.Always make those meeting as early in the day as possible and dress appropriatly.
Interesting! I am a 15 year experience, high-end custom cabinet maker/sub installer, and my biggest issue is convincing builders and cabinet shops to do their job and understand or respect what my job actually is. There’s excessive competition in my area so builders can’t make the bulk of their money off the client. They tend to try and make it off their subs and using the lowest possible quality materials. Shops here like that you work for a fixed rate and show up and do good work every time, but can’t help themselves from treating you like an hourly lacky when you’re sitting on site waiting for the material that was supposed to be there before you even arrive. And no amount of explaining that I lost my shirt on a 3 day job because they made it take 5 days, seems to convince them they’re not doing their job. And if I say I’m going to have to backcharge them for all that lost time, suddenly they’re in hourly guy mode and think I’m being greedy for not being a team player. I just got ripped off on a 4-5day job that was supposed to pay $3000. I told him I had to decline if it wasn’t 100% on site ready for me cause I only had a 6 day window. He looked me dead in the eye and said it was. The next day I show up 40miles away on a Sunday to find less then 30% there. Long story short I ran out of work in two days, and he flat lied to me five more times about deliveries showing up over the next 13 days before I told him I simply couldn’t afford another 80 mile round trip to find nothing to do, and lost my other $1200 job I had scheduled. The guy had offered to pay me out $1500, a week earlier that he suddenly refused, claiming I was now way under the 1/2 way point. And waited another month to pay me $1000, after consuming 2 full weeks of my time. Because suddenly they’re 100z about the piecework model come pay time. And the only unusual part about this story is the not getting paid part. The scheduling and treatment happen every time, for every company.
@@ThisTall I hear you bruddah,the point I was making, if you focus on the fabrication side you can pick and choose the installations you take on.Im to talented to be completely out of the installation game.The mindset is their coming to you for product,if you can have 80 % coming to you that will alleviate the chasing time frames and paycheck frustration.They need to understand upfront that your a small operation and cash flow and momentum are at the top of the list of policies. With your talents your way overqualified to focus on installation,let the installation come in due time.Dont neglect your identity and setting and staunchly ,keeping the growth standards with kindness and humility.Focus (feed)on solutions ,let the problems go away,far away!
Have you ever read Mark-up and Profit? I stumbled on some reviews of that book and there are many many positive opinions about it. Many state that it was transformative for their business in a very positive way.
I have. Its good to have an understanding of it but it could actually be very bad advice if you don't have the business model that the book is directed towards.
Here are his 20 TIPS Below. Great Job!
1. Mind the Hierarchy
2. Longstanding Relationships Matter
3. Finding Builders Takes Time
4. Cold Calling Doesn't Work
5. Two Key Connections
a. Vendors (Painters and Sheetrock)
b. Other subcontractors
6. Word of Mouth is Everything
7. Maintain a Positive Social Media Presence
a. Facebook
b. Instagram
8. Use Social Media for Front of Mine Presents
9. Overselling Equals insecurity
10. Let Others do Your Selling for you
11. Too Much Prim Donna is Bad
12. Try out Different Builders
13. Every job is your Super Bowl
14. Find the Builder you can Add Value
15. Always Maintain the Upper Hand in the Value Proposition
a. Quality of Work
b. Your Word and Delivery
c. Keep an eye on the Jobsite
d. Offer the Builder Feedback
16. Overcome Vulnerability with Financial Discipline
17. Be Confident in your Numbers and Value Offered
18. Mutual Financial Respect is Essential
19. Don't Underbid just to get your foot in the door
20. Ego will kill your business long term don't burn bridges
You’ve listed the Golden Rules of almost any buyer / supplier, contractor relationship. I’m retired from aerospace industry, worked 40 years with suppliers and contractors. Skilled, fair and honest will always be the keys to success.
13. Every job is your Stanley Cup, whats a superbowl?
Absolutely spot on! At 51 years of age, and having been a trim sub for 30 years, I whole heartedly agree with everything you said.
Can absolutely confirm that when we follow up a good trim man to paint and he makes our job easy we ALWAYS let the main man know how good of a job he did
As a young man you have more wisdom than a lot of my subcontractors that have been in the business for decades I have been in the building business for over 50 years and dealing with subcontractors for about 30 of them and your spot on as far as having a relationship with a builder nothing I hate worse is for a contractor to work with one hand and hold the other one out wanting to be paid all while telling you how great They are Great video thanks
You have wisdom beyond your years for a young fella.. The value of this video will return to you 10 fold!
The wisdom that the Lord has given you at this stage of your life is nothing short of impressive. You have a bright future in front of you. Stay humble and be blessed.
Good presentation. As a GC in custom residential, I wholeheartedly agree with your point about adding value. Active foresight is key. Anticipating things and noticing loose ends or potential problems makes the work go smoothly. It also makes me look like I can see around corners with the client. Few things are more despised by a client than nasty surprises that cost additional time and money. When my subs make me look good and avoid surprises, I do everything I can to retain them and make sure they look forward to working on my site.
Spencer, English is not my mother tongue.
However, its a pleasure to listen to you. Your idiom expressions are bright and very understandable at the same time.
Thank you for your videos!
I learn not only trimming but language as well)))
This probably is your most important video.... very very well done. I am well past 40 years in the trade, and your observations and advice are dead on.
Pricing is still the elephant in the room....I await your video on what works for you.
Everything was great. I am an ornamental iron fabricator and we do existing and new construction. All of our builders were our greatest asset. We try to do the best work possible so they don’t want to use anyone else. We never were the cheapest but we give quality and service. Your reputation is everything
You're in my top 3 favorite people on youtube. You've got high quality content, and I would love to hear more about operating and interacting in the trades. Please do make more on that topic!
This is exactly what everyone needs to hear. Well done. I just hope that you are training young apprentices and not working alone as it seems. You’re a great teacher and sharer, keep up the good work.
Thanks. Training thousands via social media vs one or two onsite.
Man your on it..all you said..but yeah the painter is probably the trade to work with..I always sand & fill if needed my scarf joints and outside corners..hate it when people say the painter will get it..they hate it when carpenters don’t tighten their work up..love this channel & thanks for sharing
Thank you for the video. I myself am trying to break into the market after a life change. One video I would like to see is an actual walk through of a house and work up of the bid. Thanks again. I enjoy your videos
I second that!
I would love to see that too. The trim carpenters in my area have a set per foot charge worked out depending on the level of trim chosen.
Great idea!
Everything you have said is very true. I've been subcontracting for 25 years and experienced everything you talked about. I watch your videos to learn tips, tricks and knowledge. Excellent advice 👍
These points apply to other businesses as well. You're 100% spot on.
Many of these pointers go through my head but it’s nice to hear you summarize them.
Many thanks
Leo
Been framing 35 yrs for 3 builders. Also own a deck company...easy to get started, forget all that stuff.
1) go to the office of all the builders, introduce yourself and ask if ANY work is available ( have pictures)
2) bid a fair price and tell them if they don't like the work, it's free.. period.
3) you work no matter the Weather 7 days a week and holidays till it's done..
This method worked for me and everyone I know in the trade. After you establish yourself as the best and loyal, then price can go up...
Your work and mistakes framing get completely hidden permanently, and nobody follows you around with a laser holding you to a 1/16 standard on every board of every wall. You guys have plenty of challenges, but permanent physical presentation is not one of them, and the problems you make for the trim, cabinet and Millwork guys rarely if ever cost you work, or even get brought up.
Hey Spenser .
Dirk here from Ontario Canada.
Just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your no nonsense down to earth videos .
Good job ,keep it up .
I’m sure this content is a benefit to many guys like myself.
God bless .
Glad to help
Wish I could give this an all caps thumbs up! I am a remodeling contractor and have never worked for builders but the same rules apply. Especially those about hubris and valuing yourself. I really appreciate someone who says to make yourself valuable by giving everything you have to a job. It’s your own work and attitude that will stand on display at the end of every project. Make sure it’s good and let others praise it by telling someone else about it while you aren’t there. It’s the greatest compliment you can receive.
Absolutely agree on the building of relationships and not burning bridges or talking negativity about other builders or tradesmen. Great video and thank you for your integrity. Wishing you well, Spencer.
Hi Spencer, I’m about to move to North Carolina and start again. I’ve done well in Chicago but the high cost of living, higher taxes, colder weather and care less people make it stressful. I have to build a reputation all over again. I cringed at some of the points you made because they resonate as true to me.
Word of mouth, a slow steady approach are what have always worked for me, but I want to pick up the phone and cold call or show up on their doorstep and brag my way into some work.
I saved this video to my favorites and will play it if I get discouraged trying to start all over again at 59.
Thanks for keeping your standards high, being a craftsman and sharing your experience !
I hope you have a great 2020, thank you !!
J Dawes Spent half of year last year in Pinehurst NC. Many retirees moving to the state and as I see the need for competent contractors. Good luck in a beautiful state. Btw, The winters there are like April in Chicago.
Mike Z , thanks for the encouragement!
So right on the lack of videos on this. GIVE ME MORE!
Hey I was “Like” 1000!!! That ll never happen again in my life. Love how you are spreading the love out here too man. Great installs and tips all around.
Awesome video! I always enjoy your videos and your humble spirit. You have a lot of strong quality's and skill's that could make it easy to be braggadocios, but you are a pleasure to watch and learn from. I personally am looking forward to more videos like this. Thank you, Klein Carpentry
Great video I couldn't agree more in so many areas. Builders appreciate honesty and subs that help the whole project along keep getting paid.
Buddy this is an awesome video!
I would definitely enjoy more content about the business side of things.
One of the best videos you have done to date.The business understanding is something that many great tradesmen lack.You do great service to help others reach their potential.Always a shame to see someone with talent not benefit because of lack of understanding.Cheers.
Great video again, as you always post. I have recently gone back to a one man show after a few years with a helper. You helped me to realize that I was still able to do large custom trim jobs and cabinet builds by myself. I had lost a little of that, and now I am enjoying my profession again as a business owner, and being the only one to worry about, and to just do what I do to make customers, and my builders happy. Thank you for your constant insight into all things in the interior trim world, and as a sole business owner. I always love to see that you have posted a new topic and video., to enjoy and learn from.
Glad to hear you got the fire back. Its a bad deal when we loose the joy in our work. Staying on the path that is best for each individual requires a lot of introspection and its not one size fits all. I definitely realized that "getting big" wasn't going to be the thing that fulfilled me, but instead was going to make me miserable and live in a constant headache.
@@InsiderCarpentry You hit the nail on the head, my love for my craft is what is important, and I wouldn't have it any other way! Keep up your great content, it is wonderful
Excellent content and very insightful. Most of your points apply much wider than construction subcontracting. I do a lot of subcontract work as a software consultant and much of what you mention here is directly applicable to my industry as well. Truth, character, trust, integrity and high quality work go a long way in subcontractor relationships.
Great tips. Navigating the sub contractor world now. Just moved to a new area, so I'm feeling it out. Really appreciate your channel great content. Keep it up! Thank you!!!!
My spin on the ego thing. Generally speaking, ego is a young man's problem that tends to come from an excessive amount of pride. While there's nothing inherently wrong with being satisfied with a job well done, sometimes the client or the contractor may not be doling out the cookies we feel we deserve, and our ego gets bruised.
This usually goes away after time, because we figure out we are our own best client and our own harshest critic, and if we know we've done the best job we can then that's all the praise we need. Filtering things through your ego is just a waste of energy.
If only I knew this when I was younger!
This probably applies to any business and dovetails well to your "making money" portion of financials video. Very wise and user friendly. Thanks!
Great points. Love hearing your perspective. Good quality information.
I can attest to having that emergency fund. I moved to a new area and had that emergency find plus a little bit more and it kept me from going insane. I started my own contracting/remodeling business and actually never dipped into the emergency fund. I was very blessed to have people make connections for me and was able to work with another contractor while I was getting started.
Great stuff. Please do more videos like this and on subs finding commercial work. Thanks
As a cabinetmaker, starting a website with just photos of my work did a lot to help my business.
I've been wanting to get a website up also. Facebook was big for me when I was getting started. Now I just upload finished job photos to facebook and that's my "website".
@@InsiderCarpentry , If it's facebook or a website, I think the important thing is just to have a place for potential customers to see your work. I don't have any text other than my contact information. Like you say, telling people how good you are doesn't really work in your favor. Just let your work speak for itself.
Excellent. All this applies to commercial work as well
I keep coming back to these business tips. Thanks so much for the free mentorship Spencer!
Love it man! You hit the nail on the head! These principles are pretty much tried and true on running any successful business. Great stuff! Keep up the great work!
Great video.
I vote for more business videos like this in the future.
This reminds me of why I stopped working for custom home builders. I’ve been a finish carpentry for 35 years my first 10 years doing new construction out here in California. Builders try to cram every trade in a home simultaneously. Everybody’s work would get ruined by one another. They all try to delay paying you as long as they can, and sometimes they never do. What ended it for me, was when 15 homes we provided finish carpentry with material became bank owned in the early 90s. I lost a lot and I would never do new construction without a voucher for the work I was going to perform. I really appreciate your content and your workmanship! It always seems like you have the whole construction site to yourself that‘s definitely not be California.
Thanks for the video, all very interesting. I'm doing general carpentry work at the moment but thanks to you, I'm thinking of specialising in finish carpentry. The accuracy and attention to detail appeals to me.
Enjoyed your perspectives on the different aspects; however, I would to know how you determine fair price and mutual value with a builder. Do you walk the floor plan or do you bid on the plans / square footage? How do you handle special features or change orders? When do you have the conversation with a familiar builder that you warrant a price increase? Thanks I really appreciate your candidness and professionalism.
Excellent questions exactly the things I’d like to know!
Bid however you want, linial ft,by the opening,etc..just give a price for the entire job
Pricing is so subjective to you and your business. How much overhead do you have? Are you slammed with work or starving? Are you a loss leader or the premium/industry wiz? What area do you live in? What are the contractors in your area charging? How confident are you in your pricing? How desperate are they? lol.
As for value, it comes in all forms. That's where building relationships comes in. Sometimes it's things that make their life easier, or solved a problem they have.
Chad Redling thanks for taking time to give such a comprehensive response. Extremely solid advice. 👍
It's not complicated..your overthinking, which tells me you don't have the skills or confidence to do the job. . You have to bid the whole job. Figure out how many days it will take you. How much it will cost you to do the job, materials and your helpers. Then how much do you want to make for that job for yourself...it's not hard.
Super helpful. Lot's to think about. Thank you for all these great videos!
Great video. Really enjoyed your thoughts. As a carpenter turned builder in Australia I really appreciated hearing you collated your advice in to a well thought out video
Awesome video could not have said it better and learnt a lot from you .
Your approach to help those are where you once were is sincerely appreciated. If karma exists, you should be getting a ton coming your way 😜🙏🏽 .
Thanx for this one. When I became self employed the relationship/network portion is one that went untaught throughout my school experience. It is one of the most if not the most besides skill level things. Thanx and best one to you.
Excellent video, lots of helpful tips. Def want more business oriented videos like this.
Good job and great advice. Please consider doing a series of videos on pricing a job.
Well done with perfectly valid points. By all means, delve deeper into the subject. Thank you for your effort.
Thanks for posting this. I'm two years into my business and am just landing my first new build contract (normally I work directly for homeowners). I think I naturally was already doing a lot of this but your opinion gives a lot of weight and guidance for how to keep heading down the right path. I would NOT have thought about the social media avenue for this. I've been scratching my head on where to go to meet these builders recently. This contract came about because I volunteered on a build. Never in a million years would I have thought that a year later I would be landing my best contract yet because of a few days of volunteering as a framer (not my trade).
It's all about connections. Builders are looking for good people. Sometimes its only a matter of making a personal connection to get your foot in the door.
loved your insight on this topic and often this is learned through trial and error.
Thank you for sharing such valuable information - especially for us novices! Looking forward to learning more from you.
Thanks for the great advice Spencer. Appreciate the humility, discipline and craftsmanship in your approach.
More please! Thanks for the video. Always good to get advice.
I cant agree with you more. I have been slowly making the transition from working directly for homeowners, to working exclusively for builders and Gc’s. It took a while but I am now working almost exclusively for 4 different builders as a trim carpenter. All of of my contacts have been made through personal relationships or through the lumberyard. Instagram has helped by giving the Builder a platform to see my work before I even step foot on his job. It was not an easy transition but it has been a rewarding one.
Very wise words of advise! Thank you again Spencer:)
Very well said brother.
One thing I would add (which ties into your point on ego) is that a subcontractor, or an established finish carpenter should never talk bad about your local competition in the trade.
I've gained many customers do to customers getting put off by others saying negative things about other contractors trying to make themselves look good.
Like you said, "let your work speak for itself"
Keep up the great work and videos.
Any good finish carpenters in NY looking for work, hit me up.... LOL
Finish carpenters have the highest rate of pre-madonnas of the trades...your point is spot on. Let your work speak for itself!
Lol. I can speak to it because I’ve been called a primadonna before. 😂
100% agree. Its a temptation to do so but it’s detrimental to everyone and only shows insecurity. Even if something is true and it’s a negative comment to someone or their work quality, it’s best just to refrain from commenting if it’s a competitor.
Sometimes saying nothing is actually saying a lot!
Super helpful! My biggest issue as a custom sub contract cabinet installer is convincing builders and cabinet shops not to think of and treat me like a hourly employee whenever it’s convenient for them.
My job is to show up on time, with a good attitude and fully prepared to do a good job..... on a site that’s fully ready for me to install product that is all there ready to be installed. In 15 years I have 100% punctuality track record and rarely make costly mistakes. But I can not get them to respect my position when I show up to 95% (not exaggerated) of the jobs on time to find the product 1/2 don and the site not ready. And no matter what approach I’ve taken to explain that this 3 day job now taking me 5-6 for no fault of my own has cost me significantly. I can’t convince them in that moment not to think of me as an hourly guy that shouldn’t be complaining. Because In all my years I’ve never achieved a bit of progress in this area. 3-4x in the last year I’ve suggested to a few shops that I need to backcharge for this wasted time, without actually doing it and it’s still achieved nothing.
The absolute nature of having no progress at all only convinces me that actually back charging would only hurt the relationship.
People will not care until it costs THEM somethings. This is the reality of the business. They key is that you have to be so valuable, and so irreplaceable, that when you DO backcharge them they have no choice but to pay for your wasted time and in turn they will change their approach logistically because they know they will be getting a bill if your time is wasted.
I give a grace period but its a fine line and you have to go with your gut on each situation. Generally for the first offence I'll eat it financially but I'll bring their awareness to the issue and tell them what needs to change. Second time that my time is wasted I HAVE TO charge them for the time. If its not costing them something they simply won't care. They have too many other things to worry about. The backcharge is the key to getting their attention.
The other alternative, when you know that change isn't going to happen realistically you need to just factor the wasted time into your quotes and pad them enough that you're just absorbing the waste but still getting paid for it.
So much great information here! Love love love!
God bless you brother , your an awesome teacher.
Glad to help
Awesomely explained and so valuable. Super Tnx.
I enjoy watching all your videos and how to tutorials. your a great finish carpenter and now I see your on point with your business practices as well. keep the videos coming. looking forward to the next.
Great video! As a younger guy trying to find my place in the industry I find a lot of value in videos like this one. Something that is not outlined enough in this industry is how to go about doing business and earning a good living. Any advice or insight on how you structure your business would be a great topic for future videos.
Great insights. Very mature attitude. Thanks for sharing.
You have quality points unfortunately for me the area around me is ate up with greedy builders and illegal workers that under price thanks for sharing your knowledge and work
You must work in Texas! lol. I have the same problem
You must live in New Orleans?
James Tyler that’s the problem here in California exactly
Can’t compete with that pricing no matter how poor quality work they do it’s all bout the price
Thanks for your advices
Very helpful and I do would like to hear more.
Definitely will keep some and use them 👍🏼👍🏼
I enjoy all your videos-you are wise beyond your years-God bless
Thank you sir! I appreciate all the helpful tips. You are a blessing.
so much great info and strait to the point, I was locked into every word. Thank you
I would love to see a video of you setting up in a house How long it takes you to set up and how long it takes you to do an average house on your own.
Great advice. Thank you very much!
Hello. (I don't know your name, but have watched several videos) I have been a trim carpenter for over 30 yrs and still have picked up some valuable info from you and your channel. One thing that I am curious about though. You say you work alone. Have you ever thought of partnering up on some larger jobs with another One man operator? I do this with a few different people and it allows us to tackle larger jobs. Plus you always have a second set of hands when needed. For the business aspect: 1 guy signs the job contract. The other "Partner" gets paid as a sub-contractor. Both people carry insurance and licenses etc. In the end, we make a little more money because 2 or 3 working together can tackle a proportionately larger project. BTW, Love the channel. Keep up the good work. Keith Rhoda
If the right other guy came a long I’d definitely team up for larger jobs. There is one other sub I work with about once a year. But not much.
I appreciate this video very much and could see how to use this for future.
So keep them coming I love trade business type videos
Great info. Please do more videos on getting started and operating this type of buisness
Excellent video. Thank you
This video is invaluable!
Can you do a video on pricing? You don't have to get into specific numbers, more looking for ratios $20 for a door $30 for a bedroom and closet of baseboard (2005 prices). Also what about contracts? Does each house have a price on the contract, or do you add the piece rate up after the house and the builder just agrees to pay it with a handshake. Thanks.
stan theman people don’t go to Walmart and pick up a TV and shake the cashiers hand telling them they will pay when they get home. If the options there for the guy to rip you off.. always set a detailed contract to somewhat protect yourself
@@amilli092 yeah, I'm just wondering about the specifics though
If it is not on paper, it never happened. You can have a contract attorney write a basic contract to meet your needs for a reasonable price. It is worth the piece of mind. Insure each job as an LLC. (Limited liability company). This will protect your assets and keep any potential action against your entire personal worth. That's my take: CYA
Jo Zen after any disaster there are those crooks that crash, cash and dash!! People are desperate and not thinking clearly and really just don't have a clue--fertile ground for easy money. During Harvey in Houston, we mucked a ton of houses where you could squeeze water out of the mud plates by stepping on them; and contractors were dry walling over that--instant mold!! But they had the insurance money and kept on...
Great subject! I would love to hear more on the business side of our trade. Your channel is one of only three that I contribute to via patreon. Thanks again!
Thanks! I appreciate it!
Very cool video!
I'm a new builder. So seeing your vid on this is pretty cool, helps me out on my end of things.
I wish all subs had wisdom like this, all I get are the primadonnas that try to do the shittiest/fastest work and squeeze the builder for payment.
all great tips. I always learn a lot from your channel carpentry wise, good to know the business aspect of it too.
excellent words of advice. thank you.
Very well said great advice
As a interior trim guy the way I made myself Irreplaceable with my Builder is if they call me back to house to repair something or to change something small from faults on their end I don't charge them. They called me and told me that they needed me to move the pull down staircases in 3 different houses in one subdivision and they needed to know what I would charge. I told them nothing just have the superintendent there to help me get the pull down staircases down safely. By the end of the week everyone from the subcontractors to their staff employees knew who I was. I don't have a company logo on my truck or my t-shirts I don't even have a business card all of my advertisement is Word of Mouth
I definitely did more of that a few years ago. I have kind of a different policy. When mistakes happen I will eat it the first time because we all make mistakes and I want them to have grace with me in the event I ever make a mistake. BUT, the thing I have found is that if a mistake doesn't cost someone something it will never get addressed. So after I eat something once, or even twice, I'll charge enough to make it hurt after that to make sure the issue gets addressed.
@@InsiderCarpentry you make a very good point so in due time I will be transitioning to that policy as well thanks ❤
I would love to see more of these.
Very good and wise advise. I'm also interested in the method you use to estimate labor and materials and draw up paperwork for a quote.
Great info, Spencer. Keep up the good work. Jealous of your workshop and tools!
Great video thanks for the input very informative
Great information!!
Great topic, I always look forward to your videos
Great informative video as always, you have outstanding workmanship something that is a dying trade.
Love the business videos. Highly under discussed topic.
Thanks for the information. I have been trying to get my foot in the door with builders in my area and it is difficult to get your name out there. Great video
You bet. It can be a tough transition and does take time.
Alot of substance! As a custom cabinetmaker,l have seen my old boy contractors(loyal tough guys),start dropping out of the trade for a variety of reasons.
So I have had to make the shift from a fab/installer into a supply only vendor as it has been hard to hold interest of workers with installation talents.
I know I dont need all the work in town,but to keep a business profitable there must be work and cash flow,in other words accounts.
Accounts are maintained through relationships,so by design this will start to take you out of the Residential/homeowner market towards solid relationships with contractors and be picky about the residential/homeowner projects I take on.
Through this corona virus we have. developed a clear view with the types of clients I am comfortable taking on,but relation ships and performance along with quality are keys.Stay humble and dont over talk or over sell,don't under dress or over dress.l mention that because I felt I lost a high end job because I went to a meeting( that was a meet and greet closer)with beat up sneakers,and a paint Staines company shirt at the end of a day.Always make those meeting as early in the day as possible and dress appropriatly.
Interesting! I am a 15 year experience, high-end custom cabinet maker/sub installer, and my biggest issue is convincing builders and cabinet shops to do their job and understand or respect what my job actually is.
There’s excessive competition in my area so builders can’t make the bulk of their money off the client. They tend to try and make it off their subs and using the lowest possible quality materials.
Shops here like that you work for a fixed rate and show up and do good work every time, but can’t help themselves from treating you like an hourly lacky when you’re sitting on site waiting for the material that was supposed to be there before you even arrive. And no amount of explaining that I lost my shirt on a 3 day job because they made it take 5 days, seems to convince them they’re not doing their job. And if I say I’m going to have to backcharge them for all that lost time, suddenly they’re in hourly guy mode and think I’m being greedy for not being a team player.
I just got ripped off on a 4-5day job that was supposed to pay $3000. I told him I had to decline if it wasn’t 100% on site ready for me cause I only had a 6 day window. He looked me dead in the eye and said it was. The next day I show up 40miles away on a Sunday to find less then 30% there. Long story short I ran out of work in two days, and he flat lied to me five more times about deliveries showing up over the next 13 days before I told him I simply couldn’t afford another 80 mile round trip to find nothing to do, and lost my other $1200 job I had scheduled.
The guy had offered to pay me out $1500, a week earlier that he suddenly refused, claiming I was now way under the 1/2 way point. And waited another month to pay me $1000, after consuming 2 full weeks of my time. Because suddenly they’re 100z about the piecework model come pay time.
And the only unusual part about this story is the not getting paid part. The scheduling and treatment happen every time, for every company.
@@ThisTall I hear you bruddah,the point I was making, if you focus on the fabrication side you can pick and choose the installations you take on.Im to talented to be completely out of the installation game.The mindset is their coming to you for product,if you can have 80 % coming to you that will alleviate the chasing time frames and paycheck frustration.They need to understand upfront that your a small operation and cash flow and momentum are at the top of the list of policies. With your talents your way overqualified to focus on installation,let the installation come in due time.Dont neglect your identity and setting and staunchly ,keeping the growth standards with kindness and humility.Focus (feed)on solutions ,let the problems go away,far away!
Great videos... can’t wait for the 2.0 miter saw wings video!!!
Thanks man I needed this !
May I suggest that you also consider testing content relative to managing the demanding physical nature of the trades.
Wow. Terrific sage advice.
Have you ever read Mark-up and Profit? I stumbled on some reviews of that book and there are many many positive opinions about it. Many state that it was transformative for their business in a very positive way.
I have. Its good to have an understanding of it but it could actually be very bad advice if you don't have the business model that the book is directed towards.